Top 5 Overrated Games

[@thedicetower]

We know the audio isn't great. But it's the best we can do - we are so busy running these shows at conventions, we aren't set up to record them live.

[@delorean-88]

Subtitles please

[@ZachLorton]

To be fair, you guys ARE a media channel. Maybe part of your KS funding should go to hiring someone to get audio & recording set for your live panels. It's possible someone in the DT crew might know someone that wouldn't charge you an arm and a leg to get a clean recording. I do enjoy listening to some panels that are recorded like this, but just a thought for future panels.

[@Manigo1743]

If you aren't set up to record them live, then why do you do it?

[@thedicetower]

@@Manigo1743 We figure that people might want to see them, rather than nothing at all.

[@mattvucu6706]

I appreciate you sharing, thanks DT

[@Officegamecafe]

They might as well have turned Camilla’s mic off for her #1 she was booed so loudly

[@zxKAOS1]

57:42

[@chillingcapybara8528]

And I agree with her so much. She seems to have good taste it would be interesting to see what her top 10 are

[@Fmbruin]

Thanks for posting this! Love seeing these panel discussions/top 10s even if I didn’t get to attend!

[@SuncoastGuy]

Chris 5 Splendor 4 Great Western Trail 3 Quacks of Quedlinburg 2 Marvel United 1 Magic the Gathering Joey 5 Nemesis 4 Ark Nova 3 Zoo Vadis 2 Blood on the Clocktower 1 Gloomhaven Zee 5 Galaxy Truckers 4 Pulsar 2849 3 Tigris and Euphrates 2 Quacks of Quedlinburg 1 Nemesis Camilla 5 Deception Murder in Hong Kong 4 Eldritch Horror 3 Agricola 2 Wingspan 1 Just One Mike 5 Castles of Mad King Ludwig 4 Res Arcana 3 Betrayal at House on the HIll 2 Aeon's End 1 Great Western Trail Tom 5 Scrabble 4 Kingdom Builder 3 Betrayal at House on the Hill 2 The Mind 1 Mage Knight

[@gamera2351]

Mikes #3 was 7th continent

[@steelman774]

Camilla’s #3 is La Havre

[@CK-xh7gn]

Camilla being called out for calling Arkham Horror a euro game lol

[@GrandElemental]

And for a good reason. That is a factually wrong claim.

[@MillaCleg]

😂 I blame sleep depravation. They rightfully called me out - I’ll own it.

[@Walkdogger]

Eldritch Horror, but yeah, that's a weird one. It's a Eurogame because you have to control your actions and control the board? Is everything a Eurogame?

[@txsportsfreak02]

​@@MillaCleghow was the con?

[@xshadowscreamx]

It’s on a map, and it is long and fiddly. So I can see the comparisons to a heavy euro.

[@dandurkin9735]

"We're all going to think of one word for Camilla's number 1 pick." ~ Joey 😆

[@zackbob6]

There's so much booing during Camilla's number 1 that KZbin can't even figure out subtitles lol

[@Solotastic]

Here's the list in order, with crossovers and timestamps (created by ChatGPT because the audio is so bad that even the auto-generated transcript is tough to get through): Number 5: Chris: Splendor (4:23) Joey: Nemesis (6:06) Zee: Galaxy Trucker (7:27) Camilla: Deception: Murder in Hong Kong (8:34) Mike: Castles of Mad King Ludwig (10:07) Tom: Scrabble (12:03) Number 4: Chris: Great Western Trail (14:20) Joey: Ark Nova (15:48) Zee: Pulsar 2849 (17:12) Camilla: Eldritch Horror (19:03) Mike: Splendor (crossover with Chris) (21:02) Tom: Kingdom Builder (23:01) Number 3: Chris: The Quacks of Quedlinburg (24:39) Joey: Zoo Vadis (26:15) Zee: Tigris & Euphrates (28:03) Camilla: Agricola (31:29) Mike: Seventh Continent (33:02) Tom: Betrayal at House on the Hill (34:45) Number 2: Chris: Marvel United (37:10) Joey: Blood on the Clocktower (39:03) Zee: The Quacks of Quedlinburg (crossover with Chris) (42:32) Camilla: Wingspan (44:51) Mike: Aeon's End (45:28) Tom: The Mind (47:47) Number 1: Chris: Magic: The Gathering (50:06) Joey: Gloomhaven (52:45) Zee: Nemesis (crossover with Joey) (55:08) Camilla: Just One (57:17) Mike: Great Western Trail (crossover with Chris) (59:24) Tom: Mage Knight: The Board Game (1:01:52)

[@jeremiahhammer2282]

One of these days I’m gonna make it to a Dice Tower convention. How can you not love this crew? Every time I watch them it’s like hanging out with good friends, even though I’ve never met any of them.

[@jonwitkop3723]

Dice Tower West is such a great experience. This was my third year and I don't plan on missing another year.

[@cailin5301]

Same. It looks so much fun. My travel options are limited, but I promise myself I'll make it to one someday.

[@jakersni9499]

Camilla's #1 nearly started a riot!

[@joshjenson8111]

She's not wrong, just one is just a generic party game, there's nothing original or special about it

[@Rylan_Korpi]

Ooooo single round scatagories. I'm so excited.

[@JimmyWorld]

Tom's reaction to Camilla's #1 is so great.

[@ThorAxiun]

57:43 The disbelief as he checks the screen then starts laughing about the chaos she just created was amazing 🤣

[@ianw0ng]

😂😂

[@dandurkin9735]

Joey understood the assignment - he was on fire !🔥

[@furleyx]

His Ark Nova assessment is spot on!

[@acemind1]

His number 1 was a huge miss. His complaint is that people enjoy playing it on pc? Plenty of games have digital versions that are very fun to play. And the complaint about missing? One of the best things about GH is that you don't have to check to see if you hit, just to see how much damage you do.

[@GrandElemental]

Worst list by far.

[@ThorAxiun]

@@acemind1nah I totally agree with Joey. The digital adaptation is so good it has me wanting to sell my physical copy. I never want to have to deal with that setup/teardown and all that overhead again. Whereas with other digital adaptations I still enjoy playing the physical. Also pulling the x0 is essentially the same as missing.

[@acemind1]

@ThorAxiun if you're still enjoying the digital game, then the game clearly isn't overrated. It's still good, but you prefer it with less overhead. And sure, the 1 in 20 to do no damage can hurt, but it isn't the same as missing in 90% of other rpg type games. You still get all benefits of the attack including status effects and if you plan to do big attacks, you can equip your character to prepare for those moments when you absolutely need to hit. The game would be worse without the miss card.

[@halforange1]

Good job pulling off a “family-friendly roast” vibe. Fun video. Specifically for solo, I don’t get the hype for Wingspan’s automa. It does not approximate how a human plays nor how a human would score (unless your friends regularly score 110-135 points). Maybe I keep getting unlucky, but it puts too many birds into play for the facedown bird card point value to effectively modulate the difficulty.

[@leonjoffe6380]

Some of our favourite games are on your lists: 7th Continent, Mage Knights, Nemesis, Quacks, Ark Nova.....but we STILL LOVE THEM....😂. Great to see all of you together

[@utahman06]

I’m glad I’ve played Nemesis, it’s an experience. But for a game of that length, setup, and rules complexity, the randomness is too much for me. It also drives me CRAZY that if you’re playing full co-op or solo there are cards in the very thin action card deck that are totally worthless (the interrupt action). I also think the infection system is way too punishing and resolves in a bizarre way.

[@HomeDrone]

I'm guessing you already realize this, but the interrupt action card is not totally useless in co-op. It's free to be discarded for doing an action that costs other cards, which seems perfectly adequate for the conversion to a co-op. It's fine to dislike the game though, I just wouldn't put much weight on that reason.

[@vexienroe]

Great mischief guys. Love this really fun personalities jabbing and joking. One of the great panels to have in front of an audience.

[@alexlord4599]

It had fun watching. It was funny and bold. Great job guys! 😊

[@knitlobe1305]

Will watch the video later but hope someone mention Earth. Most overrated nature game with poor production. Can’t get my head around being compared with Wingspan, Terraforming Mars and Ark Nova. Those 3 games had tons of different things to do, while in Earth the green cube, growth cube, the disposed card are all samey as they all give 1 points each. Not to mentioned the card power variety is super low.

[@drewkennewell4267]

People don't love Mage Knight because it's a deck builder or you move on a map Thom. It's because the combination of the deck building + hand management + board state = interesting, puzzle type gameplay that hasn't been successfully replicated to the same degree since it came out. I get why people might not like it, but the fact it's still a game that appears at the top of people's solo lists 13 years after it came out kind of says something. Edit: To elaborate on this. It would make more sense for Thom to point out other games that do what Mage Knight does, but better, in order to prove his point that it's overrated. Because it'll be hard for you to find any.

[@timdertim]

Just got it last year, it's awesome

[@KissellMissile]

I get why people like it. For me, it just slogs too much, and I think it works best as a solo game.

[@shaneannigans]

​@@KissellMissile It's my favourite game of all time but even I will admit it's only good solo.

[@CoreyMarinoGames]

Do you know if this has similar mechanics to the original Mage Knight or Mage Knight Dungeons?

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

The idea that something can't be overrated unless something is similar to it is a fallacy.

[@makerofjam]

The more videos like this I see, the more convinced I am that we need a Dice Tower roast battle

[@jennera]

I turned on closed captions and it helped a bit. Great job to the team! Loved it! 😂

[@stevenmill9887]

Why is Mike not on a throne?

[@loovtrain4520]

Gotta say… that might have been the best live top 5 you’ve ever done.

[@dddmmm21]

Maybe I am one of the lucky ones but I never had a horrible experience with Nemesis... such a great game...

[@rav3style]

Tom, brother, it's a haunted house, it doesn't follow architectural rules. that's like getting upset that the overlook hotel has elevators ful of blood

[@Ras137]

"Hmm...that's odd usually the blood gets off at the second floor"

[@BretMyers-fd5kt]

I didn't think these were supposed to be games that you hated, necessarily, but just games that you thought didnt live up the hype. It seemed like there was a lot of hating on these games, but that could just be exaggeration for dramatic effect. Certainly, some of the choices seemed to be extreme just to stir up the croed.

[@hermithouse]

Also, there's just something weird to me hating on a game like Blood on the Clocktower because fans want more people to try it and play it. This game has become popular literally because of word of mouth and people trying it, loving it, then trying to find a copy in print. This should be the type of game that, love it or hate it, is celebrated by gamers. But when Tom admits that (despite years of him hyping up Werewolf and how much he loves playing Werewolf) he refuses to even play Blood on the Clocktower because people keep asking him to play it? That really seems odd and spiteful to me. Perhaps all these fans really want to know Tom's opinion, especially after saying a year ago he was looking forward to playing and reviewing it but hasn't. But despite that, I actually like that this is mostly an attempt to rile up the crowd than anything. Kind of the whole point of doing this live rather than just another video. Tom was the only one who seemed to understand the assignment and you can see his list was the least entertaining for the crowd.

[@cbazler]

Tom Vasel, Miami Dice, Episode 42, Mage Knight: "Six thumbs up... Easily one of the best games I've played this last year" Sam: "Is it a 10?" Tom: "No, but it's awfully close." kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpbLZ2ewncmVbKM

[@scottv1600]

You are aware of this thing called time, right? And what the word "Overrated" means. If you look at other videos they've done, 2012 was the first year they did a "top 100" video after he played it (his 2011 version was made before he was able to play Mage Knight for the first time) - and on that list it snuck into the list at #94 - with TEN other 2011 games ahead of it. For context, only 1 of those 10 games was still on the list in 2020/21. On top of that, of the 93 games ahead of it at that point, only 21 stuck around by 2020 (with 5 falling off the list in 2021 and another 2 in 2022 - so only 14 games of the 93 that would still be considered good enough to be top 100 material). By the next year, it had fallen out of the top 100 (along with about 10 better games) - and never got close again. in 2016 on the podcast they did a top 10 from 2011, and it was not on the list for either of them; he then did another one in Sept with a couple of differences - again, no mention (although he did at least say he knew other people really liked it). Then in 2021 they did another version, this time with Mandi - no mention again. So thats across the 3 lists, 16 games from a middling year (1 of his top 100 of all time in 2021 was from 2011; thats now 0) that he thought were better from 2011 with more time to think - a good game, sure, but not a great game Then you look at the bgg ratings - dropped to #34 now but was as high as #7 - doesn't really tally with someone who never thought it was anything other than a good, but not great, game from a middling year; definitely the word "overrated" seems to be more than justified

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

Ark Nova seems to be a love/hate relationship with most players.

[@kafka0622]

Yes, good players love it. Not so good players hate it.

[@Gokkus87]

Ark Nova is a great game IF you are into longer, involved, multiplayer solitair-ish eurogames. Some people just hate the hype or refuse to give it a real chance. The "It's too long" argument is rubbish imo too, that is a player(count) problem.

[@kafka0622]

Not to mention that the length problem really does get better the more you play it. It's always going to be on the long end but there are games that feel really long and games that ARE long but don't feel that long. AN is the latter for me.

[@Shoitaan]

Most of the games I love are long but they feel like the time pay off is worth it. That's definitely not the vibe with Ark Nova. It's too solitary to run as long as it does.

[@chrismurphy9932]

I find it too long and too random. I also don't like the mechanic it borrowed from Terraforming Mars with cards you can't use in certain parts of the game. So I get past 20 appeal points and I can't use a bunch of cards? Why? I also am not a fan of the subtracting one point value from another. Why would I want to play a game for 1-2 hours just so I can get negative points at the end? I'd rather play Underwater Cities. In fact I had Ark Nova, played it a half dozen times and sold it.

[@adpayne91]

No one had the courage to say Brass: Birmingham

[@Mateilenberg]

That's because it isn't overrated, but just a solid and brilliant game

[@prisonmike1576]

@@Mateilenberg 1# on bgg? No

[@evandercaldwell9993]

Exactly!! Brass is boring asf

[@PamWD]

@@MateilenbergAgree, Brass is great!

[@lastburning]

I often find myself with contrary opinions but not in this case. Brass is excellent!

[@jeffmarner3106]

Tigris is not a strategy game. It’s a tactical game. You just play the board the best you can on the current turn your given.

[@Mokhnaar]

I'm sad Eric didn't get to interact with the rest

[@utahman06]

Yes, the sound is bad. However, if our options are these videos with bad sound or not getting them at all, I’ll take the video all day. Thanks for making them available.

[@VeeeeryyyFaaaastSlooooth]

I love Nemesis but I agree it's overrated and not for eveyrone, and the whole BGG TOP 100 list is just weird with very little informational value.

[@GrandElemental]

I love this game, but yeah, it is weirdly high on BGG list. It is a niche game and has clear flaws, but it does create a very unique experience that can in some cases fall flat.

[@mikehoekstra7271]

That was a lot of fun! Needed those laughs. Joey was on fire!

[@JamesOrr1987]

First of all THANKS for making this available for those, (like me), who couldn't make it live, I was there last year but couldn't make this. As a PSA They know the sound quality will not be as in the studio, this is made available as a courtesy and a bonus for those not present live and with equipment available, they can't transport their whole setup, it annoys me how people can't understand the circumstances! That out of the way Joey in particular was ON FIRE and everyone had fantastic banter and chemistry, I was "laughing out loud" literally through the whole thing! I agreed with a lot of picks (except Ark Nova haha) but could see the arguments made with most! Super fun video.

[@Isrephael1]

Perhaps recording from the sound mixer next time so it's more discernible.

[@pernellvaughan8535]

This video has been absolutely entertaining! There's a great synergy amongst you all and it shines on stage

[@rexology_bg]

So Tom's take on "overrated" is games that should have fewer ratings? 😅

[@danacoleman4007]

I don't get that either.

[@keithparker1346]

Tom confusing popularity or awareness of a game with quality

[@KissellMissile]

@@keithparker1346I don't think it's confusion, he just chose a different metric.

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

If you think something is overrated, don't you think it means it should be rated... lower?

[@hermithouse]

Ironically, I've LONG argued that despite the "awards" Kingdom Builder has gotten, I think it is way under-rated. Because the amount of hate and bad reviews and criticism the game gets is actually very high. Meanwhile, the people who take the time to understand what exactly KB has to offer seem to love it...which is a minority. So hard to say a game is over-rated when a lot of people dislike it openly, unless you are only talking about the reviews/ratings.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

37:31 Oh... No, What is the name of that board - in which you throw things back and forth - the dexterity game?

[@victornguyen1175]

I know it's all tongue-in-cheek, but anyone playing 5 hours of Nemesis and has frequent problems with dying early just hasn't understood how to play Nemesis. It's the same as playing Resident Evil and complaining that you can't kill all of the zombies because you ran out of ammo or herbs. Seriously.

[@josephbegin6074]

Needs subtitles.

[@SeerMagicX]

No, they need better audio. They all have mics, no reason a far away camera is recording the audio.

[@4amayason]

CC

[@searose6192]

It has captions…just tap CC.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

Even the CC couldn't hear Camilla over the crowd at the end. 😂

[@keithparker1346]

​@@EfrainRiveraJuniorgreat comment

[@4amayason]

Galaxy truck? Come on... The concept and dynamic.. can't beat that

[@markusbiewer2756]

I don't get the hate for Quacks, especially coming from Zee: it's such a welcoming game. I had great success teaching this game to new players. Of course it's luck, that's why it's called push your luck!

[@PaulSzkibik]

For a game that lucky it just goes too long for the amount of decisions you do. I bought the expansions and they make it more strategic but also longer and at that point of complexity there are just better games. In the base game all decisions feel like a no-brainer because after you bought your first couple of ingredients you are more or less set on a path. Depending on the recipe-books there are certain combinations that you can try out, assuming that it's all balanced by the designer, and then you just kind of do it. -> the game more or less plays itself. There isn't much sense in "switching strategies" by the end somehow. If your orange and red chips are highly synnergistic, you're not suddenly going to buy a blue chip in round 5. Na, it's still going to be orange and/or red. I enjoy Tavers of Tiefental much more because despite also being really lucky you have way more room to make decisions with the dice you place. I'm not exactly hating Quacks but there's just better games around.

[@markusbiewer2756]

@@PaulSzkibik I have Taverns, but I didn't have a chance to play it yet. I hope we can play it soon!

[@PaulSzkibik]

@@markusbiewer2756 On that note, do consider to play with all modules right away, if not in the first game then definetely from the second game on. They're all very easy, don't add too much extra upkeep but do enrich the game greatly for me. (including varied starting deck per player instead of everyone starting with the same cards) While I like Tom Vasels reviews, he kind of underrated the game because he only ever played the very basic "family version" with the reason being, that he doesn't like it when the designer/publisher asks the players, what should be in the game "the modules" and so he skipped the modules on principle. I find the basic Taverns a bit bland and the modules feel like the actual game (a bit like "advanced" boards for Rajas of the Ganges, if you've ever played that one.) I think the decision for the modules was made, because it was the follow-up game to Quacks of Quedlinburg and the designer and/or publusher were afraid that lovers of Quack would bounce off Taverns because it's more complex so they made it more accessible as a "base game". It's definetely a flaw of the game, that it's not sure what kind of experience if wants to be, but I also think that Tom Vasel was too harsh on it because he didn't review the "actual game" in my mind. But in the end, it does depend on you. Taverns with all modules kind is meatier experience and maybe you're just not looking for that. In any case, do actually try out the modules. They are super easy to grasp and integrate.

[@markusbiewer2756]

@@PaulSzkibik Thanks for the advice, I will add the modules after our first few games!

[@concretetable5643]

It's too long for what it is, there's no player interaction, it's got too many fiddly in between round rules to make it an elegant family game. The production is nice and for some people having no player interaction makes it easier for them to play, but there are many better easy to play push your luck games

[@ekurisona663]

lot of people get tricked into buying a lot of lame games every year...

[@IndianaGeologist]

I think part of the problem is it seems they have a mic pointed at the audience.

[@thecrabbydice]

Boy clearly tom is the only one at the DT who has good taste in games

[@ajeckler]

Some great picks… Ark Nova and Wingspan, as examples, are fine games, but both had been hyped as among the best games ever made, showing up as many people’s “#1 of all time”. That to me is baffling, and probably made me more critical (because of the lofty expectations - bought both and was disappointed). Res Arcana (which I really like) doesn’t make sense as “overrated” because it doesn’t rate particularly high and there is only moderate hype. It’s an inexpensive, very accessible (minimal rules overhead), engine builder with an element of worker placement (magic item selection each round), that can be set up and played (with drafting) in under an hour. In addition, the box is great (no need for storage solutions, even with the expansions), and components are decent. People might not like it, but I don’t think it can technically qualify as being overrated.

[@GrandMasterYoW]

Joey came to start a riot 😮

[@TheManaLeek]

I love(d?) Magic, ran(run?) a Magic KZbin channel for coming up on ten years, did preview cards for WotC, all that jazz. I think if Magic was released today as a brand new game it'd get absolutely panned in reviews. A big part of its current success is mostly just that it's been successful and so stays successful; momentum basically. So much of it is dated and just bad game design, and that's not even touching on its cost, secondary market, and all the various other issues circling around it. Just from a game design perspective it's dated and just kinda meh, but 30 years ago it was all we had and it was innovative then.

[@1AngelAlita]

And that's why it's still going strong after 30 years, because it's a bad game design.. ;)

[@TheManaLeek]

@@1AngelAlita Or it's going heavily based on its own momentum. Monopoly is going strong after nearly 100 years; I wouldn't call it good game design.

[@Reimu-Shrine-Maiden]

@@1AngelAlitaa game being popular doesnt make it good. Monopoly is the most popular board game in the world, almost everyone has a copy lying around somewhere. That doesnt make it good. Magics very much the same, the core concept of the game is dated, you can lose because you drew too many or too few lands and you have 0 control over it.

[@darrenkisgen3148]

Joey is the man.

[@ClaraMBarker]

Love that when he announced his no1, Tom said 'they just announced a new expansion' and then I missed what he said as I immediately started to look up when that comes out and what it contains. And yes, I am VERY excited for this expansion! hehe

[@joker718]

Wow, I hoped to see Mage Knight mentioned somewhere on The Dice Tower but not like this 😁 I still love this game, an amazing solo experience, though I admit I'm much more likely to play something like Marvel Champions or in general less involving games now that I got older. I wouldn't call it overrated though if we were to specifically talk about the solo mode.

[@djarnar]

Tom should really play blood on the clocktower though he would love running it

[@GrandElemental]

It's a pretty fun game, but I don't understand why it costs 150€. It's just sheets and tokens.

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

@@GrandElemental Lots of components, small-ish print runs.

[@keithparker1346]

​@@GrandElementaldare I say it, the makers know how to fleece nerds

[@EasyForYouToSay.mp3]

​@@GrandElementalseems very easy to bootleg over a nice arts n craft-ernoon.

[@hermithouse]

Yeah, i've already said this elsewhere in this thread but its odd to me Tom has spent years talking about his love of werewolf and hyping up werewolf and yet is spitefully refusing to play BotC because other people keep asking him to play it? Very odd attitude from one of the biggest and best know game reviewers out there. Especially one who has openly expressed their love for this very type of game.

[@enr1l]

Joey made me cry of laughs at every game

[@RuNacken]

28:50 - my favorite moment, when Zee starts by telling his nr. 3 pick is from Reiner Knizia - somebody from audience: "NOT THE DOCTOR!!"

[@4amayason]

Lol😂 The way Tom looked when he said Ark Nova.. like he wanted to defend the game

[@charlesbarthel4329]

Well that feels awkward. I watched a list and actually agreed with everything I heard. Usually I at least disagree w/ Chris and Joey.

[@matthewsimpson9124]

Great video. Camilla was straight trolling. Good for her!! My Mage Knight fan boy defense - It is really a solo game. Any other way is not nearly as fun. ;-)

[@JJ_TheGreat]

48:10 Thank you, Tom! The Mind isn't really even a game!

[@knittch]

Chris Yi calling out CMON on Marvel United is just the best.

[@ps3yt]

This video shows me that the new blood of dice tower has a LOT to learn from the veterans. It seemed to me that it was more biased than solid & strong arguments for an overrated category. Just because you don't like the game, doesn't mean it's overrated automatically. 37:12

[@hermithouse]

It also doesn't really help when their reasons for calling a game over-rated are pretty bad. Not to say their opinion or feelings are invalid, but you still should provide valid and reasonable reasons you think something is over-rated than "i hated it, it was stupid". We can get that level of "insight" from literally any public review anywhere.

[@IronSalamander8]

Quite the list! Love seeing it! Some solid choices to be honest, although some of these I've not played yet!

[@brandonmarkwell6613]

MTG as a game is amazing and not overrated. However, whether playing tournament or for fun, it is certainly pay to win.

[@n.b.8572]

How do you reconcile that opinion with the draft format? Or using pre-made decks like Jumpstart? Buying pre-made commander decks with your friends?

[@1AngelAlita]

MTG is a legend, the best proof that the game is good is that it's going strong as ever into 2024 after almost 30 years...

[@Reimu-Shrine-Maiden]

@@1AngelAlitaThat isnt proof of anything, Yu-Gi-Ohs also been around for 25 years and its a flawed game.

[@DrMcFly28]

At this point I'm almost convinced that Mike is not real, he's an AI construct dynamically generated by my phone with a single purpose - to keep track of which boardgames I like and then keep crapping on them

[@JesusGonzalez-it2sv]

Love the lists, it would have been so much fun too be there. Im sorry Chris, Aeons end is not generic at all, and funny enough i never thought it was over rated as i barly see anything of it online and i have everything they've released. I expected the algorithm send me something of it by now. Its just me butt hurt as my wife and I love it so much jaja😂

[@FabianSandovalElbianfas]

that is exactly what i do not want to get Marvel united , not only I'm tired of north american super heroes , this game looks like it was made by EA with all the "micro expansions" and stuff

[@mariposagames]

Absolutely hilarious! Can't believe how funny you all are and will make sure I am in this room next year at DTW! AND... agree with you on all of your choices and reasons except for 2. Cheers!

[@dashalpha]

Pokemon Splendor! I knew of Eevee Point Salad (which I bought), didn't know of Pokemon Splendor until now. You know a game has made it when South Korea makes a pokemon version of it.

[@iamlordstark]

I love the hate towards Quacks its too jokes lool. The joy of Quacks is literally from the PUSH YOUR LUCK mechanic. If you don't find joy in that you will not enjoy it. Also if you're heavy into your actions and decisions win you the game type games then it is NOT for you LOL. But even then this game does have that too in the sense that you decide if you want to push your luck or not and when it works its so addicting. Its literally gambling. And I'm sure this is the closest feeling I'll ever have to gambling cause I don't do it but when you pull the pieces out (without cheating!) and you get the combo its like this crazy feeling lol. I understand why people don't like it but its that addicting part of pushing your luck that makes it so fun. AND its freaking chill and short. How can you hate it for that. Getting the dice tower upgrades too makes it even more addicting too.

[@Dave286i]

5. Castles of Mad King Louis (uhhh plus 3 pointy points for this garden tile) 4. Wingspan (you're telling me a bird engine builder isn't exciting?! - yes.) 3. Inis (no boardgameco - it is not fun. shalom.) 2. 7 Wonders (play 3 games - u have seen it all. city expansion didn't help) 1. Dead of Winter (30 min setup to roll some frostbite)

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I can't tell whether to love or hate Joey. He rips on my beloved Ark Nova but then redeems himself with taking on Blood on the Overrated Clock tower and Gloom !! :D I'll let you off! 😅

[@robo3007]

If Chris doesn't want to play with toys, he's in the wrong hobby!

[@trueslna]

Camilla is so right about Wingspan :D

[@brandobond]

Feeling called out! Lots of games I like (and even love) on these lists! Luckily I went in knowing I have vastly different tastes in games than a lot of the DT staff.

[@namelessfire]

Chris: MTG isn’t a game because games are decided by random opening hands. Also Chris: So most of the games in my top 100 are decided by random chance.

[@thedicetower]

I didn't spend $700 on those random games.

[@GrandElemental]

@@thedicetower ...yet.

[@namelessfire]

@@thedicetower Magic doesn’t require a lot of money to enjoy. Pauper decks are reasonable, cube draft is the best format, and there’s always proxies if you have to play with the expensive stuff. I built my pauper cube for like $80.

[@IndianaGeologist]

If you didn't work at the DT with a full library, you'd probably be getting close to that. ​@@thedicetower

[@thedicetower]

@IndianaGeologist I meant $700 per game. I did own games before working here.

[@TheSpider-hs4jo]

Fun list! The only one i completely disagree with is Betrayal At The House On The Hill, its just fun most of the time if you can buy into the cheesy B-movie theme. where as i agree with Camilla on Wingspan, it seems like the gaming community has decided you should like it because it's high art somehow but only a passible game.

[@danacoleman4007]

I'm not sure how old Chris is or what his level of ability is with magic, but it would be impossible, literally impossible, to overrate that game. It created/ saved an industry. Also, it can be played in a variety of ways, several of which take the financial aspect out of the equation. Don't get me wrong, I despise Hasbro and what they've done and I will never give them another penny, but, the impact of magic will be felt for many decades to come, I suspect.

[@thedicetower]

I state it's overrated solely as a game. It's undeniably one of the 3 most important games to come out in modern gaming. But I also posit that it's so influential because it's overrated, if that makes sense.

[@alanli6276]

@@thedicetowerI feel like to the board game audience it's actually fairly underrated. Most invested Magic players are insulated into a separate community so on board game sites like BGG it's actually much lower than it probably should be. I think Tom said in one video if MTG players actually flooded to BGG it would probably shoot to #1. Kind of a strange dichotomy

[@danacoleman4007]

@@thedicetower I got you. And thanks for the response. I believe in many cases people's feelings about it mostly have to do with the style of game it is. Specifically CCG, which entails the money aspect. It would be interesting if you could find folks who enjoy games but had never heard of it and introduced it to them as of box of 10 decks that are balanced against each other to see what they think. Without all the other baggage. Just to evaluate it as a game.

[@keithparker1346]

​@@danacoleman4007I had a similar thing happen with me and Dominion...I had never played it but was shown it and became hooked for a couple of months then I dropped it when I realised it's just a cash cow for people to buy more cards and MTG is meant to be far worse. Imo a game is a game ...if you need to keep adding to it it's poorly designed as a game. It's for people with no lives obsessed with collecting imo

[@seniscram7958]

Love these. Sad that I missed this year. See you next year though.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

35:15 Thank you, Tom! I 💯% agree. I do not like that game!

[@4757joshua2]

Can't hear you over the crowd.

[@PaulSzkibik]

That's either a bit dramatic or a very personal impediment. Audio isn't great but you could absolutely hear them.

[@gianfranco4789]

Hearing Zee talk about Quacks gave me hope in humanity

[@jeremiahhammer2282]

After watching this my respect for both Joey and Chris doubled at the very least :)

[@SalterThe]

List should have been called "Zee hates czech games" :D :D :D

[@jacobstein5678]

Joey's list was straight legendary. 🎉🎉🎉

[@joeferreti9442]

except Nemesis

[@quashmonkey]

Latest version of betrayal is still broken but better than it used to be. Some games I am like please don't be a crappy haunt. I still enjoy it though

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

I've not played Wingspan yet. I keep hearing that it _is_ overrated, though.

[@muhdudebrigins7725]

Get the app! The app is really fun and pretty quick. I can’t stand playing in person.

[@keithparker1346]

Seriously just buy a photography or art book about birds

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

@@keithparker1346 - 🤣

[@zhetarho]

I think it's a solid game, like there are many solid games, and I enjoy playing it. To me though, calling it overrated just seems like it doesn't say much given the circumstances The thing is, BGG rating aside, it is generally considered the most popular game of all, so you can't really rate it much higher. So if there's even one game better than Wingspan it is technically overrated.

[@keithparker1346]

@@zhetarho ?

[@marcelbirkenkamp1386]

this really fullfilled on the promise of being the most fun list ever. That was really funny.

[@ericnelson382]

The kids love this game! It’s 100% about the experience of backstabbing and mystery and survival, far more than about actually winning! The laughs, the backstabbing, the sabotage….its all soooo good

[@bruceschwering5919]

Never go full Zoovadis

[@krayez]

.....Looking at my brand new, unopened Res Arcana....

[@cursivecurses]

I haven't watched it yet, but Res is one of the best games I've ever played. Haters going to hate

[@ramonosuke]

Don’t worry, if you like Race/Roll or San Juan, you’ll like Res Arcana.

[@dereklinnabary5132]

I love it. Don’t let others spoil your fun without trying it yourself.

[@realjon4220]

Furnace kinda does it better

[@cursivecurses]

@@realjon4220 apples and oranges, but both are amazing

[@jaysondoak6184]

Couldn't agree more when it comes to Betrayal. It's one of a handful of games if someone asks me to play I'm going to say no. I also have to concur when it comes to Mage Knight. Everything about that game should have hit a home run with me but it just fell flat as a pancake.

[@BoardGameHype]

JUST ONE IS THE #1 PARTY GAME EVER 🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@EgeTunca]

Can't believe no one touched Catan O.o

[@zxKAOS1]

Maybe people have long "forgotten" about it? May be a good thing if ya ask me.

[@andrester88]

I don't think it's over hyped though. It's properly hyped as a gateway game. I never really heard anyone raving about Catan personally.

[@curtisbaker6160]

I often wait for a long time to play these heavier games that are rated highly, because they are expensive and sometimes over time they start to lose their steam. Fir that reason i just recently tried great western trail. That game has just hung around. I tried it just before this video came out and i hated it so much... I even asked the question out loud, "what is this train even for?" I'm glad to see that im not a crazy person!

[@PaulSzkibik]

I think the first two games of Great Western Trail kind of also didn't click for me at all. But then I just sorta started loving it. I think a game should grab you on the first time and if it doesn't... that's more the designers fault than the players. So that's a flaw of the game maybe, though obviously plenty of people are loving it. I think what "I" love about it is that everytime it's your turn you have to make very crunchy decisions that feel very different and will shape your next turns. I also love that you have to pay attention to what other players are doing because their decisions have a big impact on your own game but at the same time there isn't a lot of mean "take that" in the game. You CAN hire the cheap cowboy some else really wanted, sure, but it never feels mean, because you probably also need it and it's just on theme with the cutthroat nature of these businesses. There's also a lot of satisfaction in it for me, to hire a bunch of cowboys, conductors or builders and get extra stuff. I find the game offers a good amount of "tactility". So if you get to play often with friends, it's worth a shot to just give thise one a couple more tries to see if it suddenly clicks. But if every game night is precious and you only get to play more complex games like every two months or so, then it's absolutely understandable if you don't want to give games second/third chances. PS: The train is really important. Not sure what's confusing about it. The train is a marker for how well developed your own rail infrastructure is. If you leave it underdeveloped (read: you're never moving it forward), you're not investing into "infrastructure" and you'll always lose a lot of profit/money on your cattle sales because thematically you're having to pay extra to ship your cows to, say, New York.

[@sanderschippers2708]

5. Root 4. Wingspan 3. Great Western Trail 2. Terraforming Mars 1. Vilticulture

[@Headbangerr-en2cc]

My number 1 would be... Dune Imperium. I love worker placement. I love deck building. Love Ruins of Arnak, Caverna, Architects of the West Kingdom, and many more. But i hate that game. It's just something in graphic desing that's awful to me. The board is just boring with all these simple shapes. And the gameplay itself feels very mechanic, but at the same time soulless.

[@trueslna]

Gloomhaven's gameplay is still far and away the best among all dungeon crawlers. Then saying "do as good as you can you're still gonna miss" shows ignorance about the game. Another pick just for controversy and with low knowledge of the game.

[@dutch_blades]

Tom's #1 is unforgivable.

[@cursivecurses]

Unnecessary rant about "lack of theme" in Res Arcana: I thought this too at first, but I think we tend to have a too-narrow view of what "theme" is. We look for flavor text, or proper nouns ("Chandra Nalaar" in MtG instead of "Fire Mage" or something, which is more like what Res Arcana does). But many of the Artifacts are based off famous alchemical legends, and most of the mages are modeled after (in)famous alchemists in history. But the main way it actually represents itself is the mechanisms. Look at Athanor, for example. It's real easy to look at the card, meh and move on. But do you know what an Athanor is? I didn't. It's alchemical furnace, like an oven. You have to heat it up before you cook. Hence what the card does. There are all kinds of examples of this throughout the game, but you have to be willing to change your perspective on what "adding theme" to a game is.

[@zachoehm8537]

The call out on 7th continent and Blood on the clocktower was excellent!