Top 5 Overrated Games

[@thedicetower]

We know the audio isn't great. But it's the best we can do - we are so busy running these shows at conventions, we aren't set up to record them live.

[@delorean-88]

Subtitles please

[@ZachLorton]

To be fair, you guys ARE a media channel. Maybe part of your KS funding should go to hiring someone to get audio & recording set for your live panels. It's possible someone in the DT crew might know someone that wouldn't charge you an arm and a leg to get a clean recording. I do enjoy listening to some panels that are recorded like this, but just a thought for future panels.

[@Manigo1743]

If you aren't set up to record them live, then why do you do it?

[@thedicetower]

@@Manigo1743 We figure that people might want to see them, rather than nothing at all.

[@mattvucu6706]

I appreciate you sharing, thanks DT

[@Officegamecafe]

They might as well have turned Camilla’s mic off for her #1 she was booed so loudly

[@zxKAOS1]

57:42

[@chillingcapybara8528]

And I agree with her so much. She seems to have good taste it would be interesting to see what her top 10 are

[@Fmbruin]

Thanks for posting this! Love seeing these panel discussions/top 10s even if I didn’t get to attend!

[@dandurkin9735]

"We're all going to think of one word for Camilla's number 1 pick." ~ Joey 😆

[@CK-xh7gn]

Camilla being called out for calling Arkham Horror a euro game lol

[@GrandElemental]

And for a good reason. That is a factually wrong claim.

[@MillaCleg]

😂 I blame sleep depravation. They rightfully called me out - I’ll own it.

[@Walkdogger]

Eldritch Horror, but yeah, that's a weird one. It's a Eurogame because you have to control your actions and control the board? Is everything a Eurogame?

[@txsportsfreak02]

​@@MillaCleghow was the con?

[@xshadowscreamx]

It’s on a map, and it is long and fiddly. So I can see the comparisons to a heavy euro.

[@zackbob6]

There's so much booing during Camilla's number 1 that KZbin can't even figure out subtitles lol

[@harrisonlynch4701]

I had captions turned on and they cut out during that segment. I think they picked up Zee yelling something but nothing Camilla said

[@jeremiahhammer2282]

One of these days I’m gonna make it to a Dice Tower convention. How can you not love this crew? Every time I watch them it’s like hanging out with good friends, even though I’ve never met any of them.

[@jonwitkop3723]

Dice Tower West is such a great experience. This was my third year and I don't plan on missing another year.

[@cailin5301]

Same. It looks so much fun. My travel options are limited, but I promise myself I'll make it to one someday.

[@SuncoastGuy]

Chris 5 Splendor 4 Great Western Trail 3 Quacks of Quedlinburg 2 Marvel United 1 Magic the Gathering Joey 5 Nemesis 4 Ark Nova 3 Zoo Vadis 2 Blood on the Clocktower 1 Gloomhaven Zee 5 Galaxy Truckers 4 Pulsar 2849 3 Tigris and Euphrates 2 Quacks of Quedlinburg 1 Nemesis Camilla 5 Deception Murder in Hong Kong 4 Eldritch Horror 3 Agricola 2 Wingspan 1 Just One Mike 5 Castles of Mad King Ludwig 4 Res Arcana 3 Betrayal at House on the HIll 2 Aeon's End 1 Great Western Trail Tom 5 Scrabble 4 Kingdom Builder 3 Betrayal at House on the Hill 2 The Mind 1 Mage Knight

[@gamera2351]

Mikes #3 was 7th continent

[@steelman774]

Camilla’s #3 is La Havre

[@halforange1]

Good job pulling off a “family-friendly roast” vibe. Fun video. Specifically for solo, I don’t get the hype for Wingspan’s automa. It does not approximate how a human plays nor how a human would score (unless your friends regularly score 110-135 points). Maybe I keep getting unlucky, but it puts too many birds into play for the facedown bird card point value to effectively modulate the difficulty.

[@dandurkin9735]

Joey understood the assignment - he was on fire !🔥

[@furleyx]

His Ark Nova assessment is spot on!

[@acemind1]

His number 1 was a huge miss. His complaint is that people enjoy playing it on pc? Plenty of games have digital versions that are very fun to play. And the complaint about missing? One of the best things about GH is that you don't have to check to see if you hit, just to see how much damage you do.

[@GrandElemental]

Worst list by far.

[@ThorAxiun]

@@acemind1nah I totally agree with Joey. The digital adaptation is so good it has me wanting to sell my physical copy. I never want to have to deal with that setup/teardown and all that overhead again. Whereas with other digital adaptations I still enjoy playing the physical. Also pulling the x0 is essentially the same as missing.

[@acemind1]

@ThorAxiun if you're still enjoying the digital game, then the game clearly isn't overrated. It's still good, but you prefer it with less overhead. And sure, the 1 in 20 to do no damage can hurt, but it isn't the same as missing in 90% of other rpg type games. You still get all benefits of the attack including status effects and if you plan to do big attacks, you can equip your character to prepare for those moments when you absolutely need to hit. The game would be worse without the miss card.

[@JimmyWorld]

Tom's reaction to Camilla's #1 is so great.

[@ThorAxiun]

57:43 The disbelief as he checks the screen then starts laughing about the chaos she just created was amazing 🤣

[@ianw0ng]

😂😂

[@Solotastic]

Here's the list in order, with crossovers and timestamps (created by ChatGPT because the audio is so bad that even the auto-generated transcript is tough to get through): Number 5: Chris: Splendor (4:23) Joey: Nemesis (6:06) Zee: Galaxy Trucker (7:27) Camilla: Deception: Murder in Hong Kong (8:34) Mike: Castles of Mad King Ludwig (10:07) Tom: Scrabble (12:03) Number 4: Chris: Great Western Trail (14:20) Joey: Ark Nova (15:48) Zee: Pulsar 2849 (17:12) Camilla: Eldritch Horror (19:03) Mike: Splendor (crossover with Chris) (21:02) Tom: Kingdom Builder (23:01) Number 3: Chris: The Quacks of Quedlinburg (24:39) Joey: Zoo Vadis (26:15) Zee: Tigris & Euphrates (28:03) Camilla: Agricola (31:29) Mike: Seventh Continent (33:02) Tom: Betrayal at House on the Hill (34:45) Number 2: Chris: Marvel United (37:10) Joey: Blood on the Clocktower (39:03) Zee: The Quacks of Quedlinburg (crossover with Chris) (42:32) Camilla: Wingspan (44:51) Mike: Aeon's End (45:28) Tom: The Mind (47:47) Number 1: Chris: Magic: The Gathering (50:06) Joey: Gloomhaven (52:45) Zee: Nemesis (crossover with Joey) (55:08) Camilla: Just One (57:17) Mike: Great Western Trail (crossover with Chris) (59:24) Tom: Mage Knight: The Board Game (1:01:52)

[@jakersni9499]

Camilla's #1 nearly started a riot!

[@joshjenson8111]

She's not wrong, just one is just a generic party game, there's nothing original or special about it

[@Rylan_Korpi]

Ooooo single round scatagories. I'm so excited.

[@utahman06]

I’m glad I’ve played Nemesis, it’s an experience. But for a game of that length, setup, and rules complexity, the randomness is too much for me. It also drives me CRAZY that if you’re playing full co-op or solo there are cards in the very thin action card deck that are totally worthless (the interrupt action). I also think the infection system is way too punishing and resolves in a bizarre way.

[@HomeDrone]

I'm guessing you already realize this, but the interrupt action card is not totally useless in co-op. It's free to be discarded for doing an action that costs other cards, which seems perfectly adequate for the conversion to a co-op. It's fine to dislike the game though, I just wouldn't put much weight on that reason.

[@leonjoffe6380]

Some of our favourite games are on your lists: 7th Continent, Mage Knights, Nemesis, Quacks, Ark Nova.....but we STILL LOVE THEM....😂. Great to see all of you together

[@alexlord4599]

It had fun watching. It was funny and bold. Great job guys! 😊

[@makerofjam]

The more videos like this I see, the more convinced I am that we need a Dice Tower roast battle

[@dddmmm21]

Maybe I am one of the lucky ones but I never had a horrible experience with Nemesis... such a great game...

[@vexienroe]

Great mischief guys. Love this really fun personalities jabbing and joking. One of the great panels to have in front of an audience.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

Ark Nova seems to be a love/hate relationship with most players.

[@kafka0622]

Yes, good players love it. Not so good players hate it.

[@Gokkus87]

Ark Nova is a great game IF you are into longer, involved, multiplayer solitair-ish eurogames. Some people just hate the hype or refuse to give it a real chance. The "It's too long" argument is rubbish imo too, that is a player(count) problem.

[@kafka0622]

Not to mention that the length problem really does get better the more you play it. It's always going to be on the long end but there are games that feel really long and games that ARE long but don't feel that long. AN is the latter for me.

[@Shoitaan]

Most of the games I love are long but they feel like the time pay off is worth it. That's definitely not the vibe with Ark Nova. It's too solitary to run as long as it does.

[@chrismurphy9932]

I find it too long and too random. I also don't like the mechanic it borrowed from Terraforming Mars with cards you can't use in certain parts of the game. So I get past 20 appeal points and I can't use a bunch of cards? Why? I also am not a fan of the subtracting one point value from another. Why would I want to play a game for 1-2 hours just so I can get negative points at the end? I'd rather play Underwater Cities. In fact I had Ark Nova, played it a half dozen times and sold it.

[@jennera]

I turned on closed captions and it helped a bit. Great job to the team! Loved it! 😂

[@knitlobe1305]

Will watch the video later but hope someone mention Earth. Most overrated nature game with poor production. Can’t get my head around being compared with Wingspan, Terraforming Mars and Ark Nova. Those 3 games had tons of different things to do, while in Earth the green cube, growth cube, the disposed card are all samey as they all give 1 points each. Not to mentioned the card power variety is super low.

[@jeffmarner3106]

Tigris is not a strategy game. It’s a tactical game. You just play the board the best you can on the current turn your given.

[@rav3style]

Tom, brother, it's a haunted house, it doesn't follow architectural rules. that's like getting upset that the overlook hotel has elevators ful of blood

[@Ras137]

"Hmm...that's odd usually the blood gets off at the second floor"

[@utahman06]

Yes, the sound is bad. However, if our options are these videos with bad sound or not getting them at all, I’ll take the video all day. Thanks for making them available.

[@drewkennewell4267]

People don't love Mage Knight because it's a deck builder or you move on a map Thom. It's because the combination of the deck building + hand management + board state = interesting, puzzle type gameplay that hasn't been successfully replicated to the same degree since it came out. I get why people might not like it, but the fact it's still a game that appears at the top of people's solo lists 13 years after it came out kind of says something. Edit: To elaborate on this. It would make more sense for Thom to point out other games that do what Mage Knight does, but better, in order to prove his point that it's overrated. Because it'll be hard for you to find any.

[@timdertim]

Just got it last year, it's awesome

[@KissellMissile]

I get why people like it. For me, it just slogs too much, and I think it works best as a solo game.

[@shaneannigans]

​@@KissellMissile It's my favourite game of all time but even I will admit it's only good solo.

[@CoreyMarinoGames]

Do you know if this has similar mechanics to the original Mage Knight or Mage Knight Dungeons?

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

The idea that something can't be overrated unless something is similar to it is a fallacy.

[@markusbiewer2756]

I don't get the hate for Quacks, especially coming from Zee: it's such a welcoming game. I had great success teaching this game to new players. Of course it's luck, that's why it's called push your luck!

[@PaulSzkibik]

For a game that lucky it just goes too long for the amount of decisions you do. I bought the expansions and they make it more strategic but also longer and at that point of complexity there are just better games. In the base game all decisions feel like a no-brainer because after you bought your first couple of ingredients you are more or less set on a path. Depending on the recipe-books there are certain combinations that you can try out, assuming that it's all balanced by the designer, and then you just kind of do it. -> the game more or less plays itself. There isn't much sense in "switching strategies" by the end somehow. If your orange and red chips are highly synnergistic, you're not suddenly going to buy a blue chip in round 5. Na, it's still going to be orange and/or red. I enjoy Tavers of Tiefental much more because despite also being really lucky you have way more room to make decisions with the dice you place. I'm not exactly hating Quacks but there's just better games around.

[@markusbiewer2756]

@@PaulSzkibik I have Taverns, but I didn't have a chance to play it yet. I hope we can play it soon!

[@PaulSzkibik]

@@markusbiewer2756 On that note, do consider to play with all modules right away, if not in the first game then definetely from the second game on. They're all very easy, don't add too much extra upkeep but do enrich the game greatly for me. (including varied starting deck per player instead of everyone starting with the same cards) While I like Tom Vasels reviews, he kind of underrated the game because he only ever played the very basic "family version" with the reason being, that he doesn't like it when the designer/publisher asks the players, what should be in the game "the modules" and so he skipped the modules on principle. I find the basic Taverns a bit bland and the modules feel like the actual game (a bit like "advanced" boards for Rajas of the Ganges, if you've ever played that one.) I think the decision for the modules was made, because it was the follow-up game to Quacks of Quedlinburg and the designer and/or publusher were afraid that lovers of Quack would bounce off Taverns because it's more complex so they made it more accessible as a "base game". It's definetely a flaw of the game, that it's not sure what kind of experience if wants to be, but I also think that Tom Vasel was too harsh on it because he didn't review the "actual game" in my mind. But in the end, it does depend on you. Taverns with all modules kind is meatier experience and maybe you're just not looking for that. In any case, do actually try out the modules. They are super easy to grasp and integrate.

[@markusbiewer2756]

@@PaulSzkibik Thanks for the advice, I will add the modules after our first few games!

[@concretetable5643]

It's too long for what it is, there's no player interaction, it's got too many fiddly in between round rules to make it an elegant family game. The production is nice and for some people having no player interaction makes it easier for them to play, but there are many better easy to play push your luck games

[@loovtrain4520]

Gotta say… that might have been the best live top 5 you’ve ever done.

[@BretMyers-fd5kt]

I didn't think these were supposed to be games that you hated, necessarily, but just games that you thought didnt live up the hype. It seemed like there was a lot of hating on these games, but that could just be exaggeration for dramatic effect. Certainly, some of the choices seemed to be extreme just to stir up the croed.

[@hermithouse]

Also, there's just something weird to me hating on a game like Blood on the Clocktower because fans want more people to try it and play it. This game has become popular literally because of word of mouth and people trying it, loving it, then trying to find a copy in print. This should be the type of game that, love it or hate it, is celebrated by gamers. But when Tom admits that (despite years of him hyping up Werewolf and how much he loves playing Werewolf) he refuses to even play Blood on the Clocktower because people keep asking him to play it? That really seems odd and spiteful to me. Perhaps all these fans really want to know Tom's opinion, especially after saying a year ago he was looking forward to playing and reviewing it but hasn't. But despite that, I actually like that this is mostly an attempt to rile up the crowd than anything. Kind of the whole point of doing this live rather than just another video. Tom was the only one who seemed to understand the assignment and you can see his list was the least entertaining for the crowd.

[@marks6928]

@@hermithouseI think what puts a lot of people off Blood On The Clocktower is how frothy at the mouth fans of it get if anyone dares say anything against it.

[@stevenmill9887]

Why is Mike not on a throne?

[@Mokhnaar]

I'm sad Eric didn't get to interact with the rest

[@adpayne91]

No one had the courage to say Brass: Birmingham

[@Mateilenberg]

That's because it isn't overrated, but just a solid and brilliant game

[@prisonmike1576]

@@Mateilenberg 1# on bgg? No

[@evandercaldwell9993]

Exactly!! Brass is boring asf

[@PamWD]

@@MateilenbergAgree, Brass is great!

[@lastburning]

I often find myself with contrary opinions but not in this case. Brass is excellent!

[@josephbegin6074]

Needs subtitles.

[@SeerMagicX]

No, they need better audio. They all have mics, no reason a far away camera is recording the audio.

[@4amayason]

CC

[@searose6192]

It has captions…just tap CC.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

Even the CC couldn't hear Camilla over the crowd at the end. 😂

[@keithparker1346]

​@@EfrainRiveraJuniorgreat comment

[@Isrephael1]

Perhaps recording from the sound mixer next time so it's more discernible.

[@matthewsimpson9124]

Great video. Camilla was straight trolling. Good for her!! My Mage Knight fan boy defense - It is really a solo game. Any other way is not nearly as fun. ;-)

[@JamesOrr1987]

First of all THANKS for making this available for those, (like me), who couldn't make it live, I was there last year but couldn't make this. As a PSA They know the sound quality will not be as in the studio, this is made available as a courtesy and a bonus for those not present live and with equipment available, they can't transport their whole setup, it annoys me how people can't understand the circumstances! That out of the way Joey in particular was ON FIRE and everyone had fantastic banter and chemistry, I was "laughing out loud" literally through the whole thing! I agreed with a lot of picks (except Ark Nova haha) but could see the arguments made with most! Super fun video.

[@mikehoekstra7271]

That was a lot of fun! Needed those laughs. Joey was on fire!

[@brandonmarkwell6613]

MTG as a game is amazing and not overrated. However, whether playing tournament or for fun, it is certainly pay to win.

[@n.b.8572]

How do you reconcile that opinion with the draft format? Or using pre-made decks like Jumpstart? Buying pre-made commander decks with your friends?

[@1AngelAlita]

MTG is a legend, the best proof that the game is good is that it's going strong as ever into 2024 after almost 30 years...

[@Reimu-Shrine-Maiden]

@@1AngelAlitaThat isnt proof of anything, Yu-Gi-Ohs also been around for 25 years and its a flawed game.

[@VeeeeryyyFaaaastSlooooth]

I love Nemesis but I agree it's overrated and not for eveyrone, and the whole BGG TOP 100 list is just weird with very little informational value.

[@GrandElemental]

I love this game, but yeah, it is weirdly high on BGG list. It is a niche game and has clear flaws, but it does create a very unique experience that can in some cases fall flat.

[@mariposagames]

Absolutely hilarious! Can't believe how funny you all are and will make sure I am in this room next year at DTW! AND... agree with you on all of your choices and reasons except for 2. Cheers!

[@thecrabbydice]

Boy clearly tom is the only one at the DT who has good taste in games

[@rexology_bg]

So Tom's take on "overrated" is games that should have fewer ratings? 😅

[@danacoleman4007]

I don't get that either.

[@keithparker1346]

Tom confusing popularity or awareness of a game with quality

[@KissellMissile]

@@keithparker1346I don't think it's confusion, he just chose a different metric.

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

If you think something is overrated, don't you think it means it should be rated... lower?

[@hermithouse]

Ironically, I've LONG argued that despite the "awards" Kingdom Builder has gotten, I think it is way under-rated. Because the amount of hate and bad reviews and criticism the game gets is actually very high. Meanwhile, the people who take the time to understand what exactly KB has to offer seem to love it...which is a minority. So hard to say a game is over-rated when a lot of people dislike it openly, unless you are only talking about the reviews/ratings.

[@pernellvaughan8535]

This video has been absolutely entertaining! There's a great synergy amongst you all and it shines on stage

[@victornguyen1175]

I know it's all tongue-in-cheek, but anyone playing 5 hours of Nemesis and has frequent problems with dying early just hasn't understood how to play Nemesis. It's the same as playing Resident Evil and complaining that you can't kill all of the zombies because you ran out of ammo or herbs. Seriously.

[@FabianSandovalElbianfas]

that is exactly what i do not want to get Marvel united , not only I'm tired of north american super heroes , this game looks like it was made by EA with all the "micro expansions" and stuff

[@cbazler]

Tom Vasel, Miami Dice, Episode 42, Mage Knight: "Six thumbs up... Easily one of the best games I've played this last year" Sam: "Is it a 10?" Tom: "No, but it's awfully close." kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpbLZ2ewncmVbKM

[@scottv1600]

You are aware of this thing called time, right? And what the word "Overrated" means. If you look at other videos they've done, 2012 was the first year they did a "top 100" video after he played it (his 2011 version was made before he was able to play Mage Knight for the first time) - and on that list it snuck into the list at #94 - with TEN other 2011 games ahead of it. For context, only 1 of those 10 games was still on the list in 2020/21. On top of that, of the 93 games ahead of it at that point, only 21 stuck around by 2020 (with 5 falling off the list in 2021 and another 2 in 2022 - so only 14 games of the 93 that would still be considered good enough to be top 100 material). By the next year, it had fallen out of the top 100 (along with about 10 better games) - and never got close again. in 2016 on the podcast they did a top 10 from 2011, and it was not on the list for either of them; he then did another one in Sept with a couple of differences - again, no mention (although he did at least say he knew other people really liked it). Then in 2021 they did another version, this time with Mandi - no mention again. So thats across the 3 lists, 16 games from a middling year (1 of his top 100 of all time in 2021 was from 2011; thats now 0) that he thought were better from 2011 with more time to think - a good game, sure, but not a great game Then you look at the bgg ratings - dropped to #34 now but was as high as #7 - doesn't really tally with someone who never thought it was anything other than a good, but not great, game from a middling year; definitely the word "overrated" seems to be more than justified

[@ajeckler]

Some great picks… Ark Nova and Wingspan, as examples, are fine games, but both had been hyped as among the best games ever made, showing up as many people’s “#1 of all time”. That to me is baffling, and probably made me more critical (because of the lofty expectations - bought both and was disappointed). Res Arcana (which I really like) doesn’t make sense as “overrated” because it doesn’t rate particularly high and there is only moderate hype. It’s an inexpensive, very accessible (minimal rules overhead), engine builder with an element of worker placement (magic item selection each round), that can be set up and played (with drafting) in under an hour. In addition, the box is great (no need for storage solutions, even with the expansions), and components are decent. People might not like it, but I don’t think it can technically qualify as being overrated.

[@IndianaGeologist]

I think part of the problem is it seems they have a mic pointed at the audience.

[@djarnar]

Tom should really play blood on the clocktower though he would love running it

[@GrandElemental]

It's a pretty fun game, but I don't understand why it costs 150€. It's just sheets and tokens.

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

@@GrandElemental Lots of components, small-ish print runs.

[@keithparker1346]

​@@GrandElementaldare I say it, the makers know how to fleece nerds

[@EasyForYouToSay.mp3]

​@@GrandElementalseems very easy to bootleg over a nice arts n craft-ernoon.

[@hermithouse]

Yeah, i've already said this elsewhere in this thread but its odd to me Tom has spent years talking about his love of werewolf and hyping up werewolf and yet is spitefully refusing to play BotC because other people keep asking him to play it? Very odd attitude from one of the biggest and best know game reviewers out there. Especially one who has openly expressed their love for this very type of game.

[@ekurisona663]

lot of people get tricked into buying a lot of lame games every year...

[@Dave286i]

5. Castles of Mad King Louis (uhhh plus 3 pointy points for this garden tile) 4. Wingspan (you're telling me a bird engine builder isn't exciting?! - yes.) 3. Inis (no boardgameco - it is not fun. shalom.) 2. 7 Wonders (play 3 games - u have seen it all. city expansion didn't help) 1. Dead of Winter (30 min setup to roll some frostbite)

[@SanswayNuna]

Boom Joey dropping the truth bombs on Ark Nova!! I played it for the first time at DTW 2024 and it was such a let down!

[@KurtDepner]

Not a good way to introduce you to that game.

[@dansimmons2095]

",i didnt spend four thousand dollars to learn the cards" aka: tell me you dont understand MtG without saying you dont understand MtG. 😅

[@joker718]

Wow, I hoped to see Mage Knight mentioned somewhere on The Dice Tower but not like this 😁 I still love this game, an amazing solo experience, though I admit I'm much more likely to play something like Marvel Champions or in general less involving games now that I got older. I wouldn't call it overrated though if we were to specifically talk about the solo mode.

[@GrandMasterYoW]

Joey came to start a riot 😮

[@knittch]

Chris Yi calling out CMON on Marvel United is just the best.

[@misterlobsterman]

I whole heartedly agree on The Mind, Betrayal, Aeon's End, Quacks, Gloomhaven, and I'd like to add basically all CMON games.

[@gergenheimer]

Just played Great Western Trail with my buddies on BGA - we bailed half way through. Don't understand the appeal of a game that intentionally embodies complexity for complexity's sake and I personally don't love games where the theme is utterly irrelevant to how the game plays. They could reskin this game as "Nerf Herders of Tattooine" and it would feel exactly the same to play. If you like this game, you do you, but this felt like tedious homework to me.

[@therealBocaStudios]

I suck at deck builders, with that said, try to see a game for what it is, I’m convinced Andrew set out to design a better monopoly. Have you played maricarbo? Maricarbo is really well done, I recommend it on the tablet. GWT has this element of time to it, as a way of counting down the turns, it showed up on the scene and took the most hated mechanic, the rondel and blew our minds with it. It’s a beautiful game to look at. Clank in Space is a great deck builder.

[@gregclark1656]

Of all the games that were mentioned, Camilla gets booed loudest and longest for just one!?! Just one...... it's a party game like pretty much any other party game, they just find a slightly different hook. Not a shocking pic. I'm with you Camilla.

[@gamera2351]

So am I. It’s overrated for sure. It’s just ok with this baffling hype train everyone jumped on.

[@dandurkin9735]

Booooooo!

[@Uthe007]

simp.

[@1AngelAlita]

I think Camilla deserved it, her choices didn't make much sense..

[@kep1021]

Finally, someone else who admits that Deception: Murder in Hong Kong suckssss. I hate that game.

[@TheManaLeek]

I love(d?) Magic, ran(run?) a Magic KZbin channel for coming up on ten years, did preview cards for WotC, all that jazz. I think if Magic was released today as a brand new game it'd get absolutely panned in reviews. A big part of its current success is mostly just that it's been successful and so stays successful; momentum basically. So much of it is dated and just bad game design, and that's not even touching on its cost, secondary market, and all the various other issues circling around it. Just from a game design perspective it's dated and just kinda meh, but 30 years ago it was all we had and it was innovative then.

[@1AngelAlita]

And that's why it's still going strong after 30 years, because it's a bad game design.. ;)

[@TheManaLeek]

@@1AngelAlita Or it's going heavily based on its own momentum. Monopoly is going strong after nearly 100 years; I wouldn't call it good game design.

[@Reimu-Shrine-Maiden]

@@1AngelAlitaa game being popular doesnt make it good. Monopoly is the most popular board game in the world, almost everyone has a copy lying around somewhere. That doesnt make it good. Magics very much the same, the core concept of the game is dated, you can lose because you drew too many or too few lands and you have 0 control over it.

[@JesusGonzalez-it2sv]

Love the lists, it would have been so much fun too be there. Im sorry Chris, Aeons end is not generic at all, and funny enough i never thought it was over rated as i barly see anything of it online and i have everything they've released. I expected the algorithm send me something of it by now. Its just me butt hurt as my wife and I love it so much jaja😂

[@charlesbarthel4329]

Well that feels awkward. I watched a list and actually agreed with everything I heard. Usually I at least disagree w/ Chris and Joey.

[@gianfranco4789]

Hearing Zee talk about Quacks gave me hope in humanity

[@ClaraMBarker]

Love that when he announced his no1, Tom said 'they just announced a new expansion' and then I missed what he said as I immediately started to look up when that comes out and what it contains. And yes, I am VERY excited for this expansion! hehe

[@robo3007]

If Chris doesn't want to play with toys, he's in the wrong hobby!

[@4amayason]

Lol😂 The way Tom looked when he said Ark Nova.. like he wanted to defend the game

[@IronSalamander8]

Quite the list! Love seeing it! Some solid choices to be honest, although some of these I've not played yet!

[@jacobstein5678]

Joey's list was straight legendary. 🎉🎉🎉

[@joeferreti9442]

except Nemesis

[@EgeTunca]

Can't believe no one touched Catan O.o

[@zxKAOS1]

Maybe people have long "forgotten" about it? May be a good thing if ya ask me.

[@andrester88]

I don't think it's over hyped though. It's properly hyped as a gateway game. I never really heard anyone raving about Catan personally.

[@dashalpha]

Pokemon Splendor! I knew of Eevee Point Salad (which I bought), didn't know of Pokemon Splendor until now. You know a game has made it when South Korea makes a pokemon version of it.

[@Drew_D]

I didn’t know either. I honestly thought he was just being sarcastic. 😅

[@darrenkisgen3148]

Joey is the man.

[@RuNacken]

28:50 - my favorite moment, when Zee starts by telling his nr. 3 pick is from Reiner Knizia - somebody from audience: "NOT THE DOCTOR!!"

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

I've not played Wingspan yet. I keep hearing that it _is_ overrated, though.

[@muhdudebrigins7725]

Get the app! The app is really fun and pretty quick. I can’t stand playing in person.

[@keithparker1346]

Seriously just buy a photography or art book about birds

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

@@keithparker1346 - 🤣

[@zhetarho]

I think it's a solid game, like there are many solid games, and I enjoy playing it. To me though, calling it overrated just seems like it doesn't say much given the circumstances The thing is, BGG rating aside, it is generally considered the most popular game of all, so you can't really rate it much higher. So if there's even one game better than Wingspan it is technically overrated.

[@keithparker1346]

@@zhetarho ?

[@ramonosuke]

Viticulture. Decent at best, but highly over rated, as are most Stonemaier Games TBH. Agreed with almost all of Joey’s list, especially Blood on the Clock tower. Also hear-hear Camilla, I too can’t stand Deception: “Shouting Match” in Hong Kong.

[@utahman06]

I really struggled with Viticulture. Cards are way too random, it was hard to build up a coherent strategy. The Grande worker was once a novel concept but not so much any more, and wasn’t by the time I first tried the game. It was so underwhelming to me.

[@TheOldMan-75]

I'm not the biggest fan of the games published by Stonemaier but they cater to a specific market and they do it well. Their games have good replay value while still being pretty simple and that's not always easy to achieve. They make good games for the upper end of casual gamers or for those evenings with rather mixed groups.

[@enr1l]

Joey made me cry of laughs at every game

[@iamlordstark]

I love the hate towards Quacks its too jokes lool. The joy of Quacks is literally from the PUSH YOUR LUCK mechanic. If you don't find joy in that you will not enjoy it. Also if you're heavy into your actions and decisions win you the game type games then it is NOT for you LOL. But even then this game does have that too in the sense that you decide if you want to push your luck or not and when it works its so addicting. Its literally gambling. And I'm sure this is the closest feeling I'll ever have to gambling cause I don't do it but when you pull the pieces out (without cheating!) and you get the combo its like this crazy feeling lol. I understand why people don't like it but its that addicting part of pushing your luck that makes it so fun. AND its freaking chill and short. How can you hate it for that. Getting the dice tower upgrades too makes it even more addicting too.

[@namelessfire]

Chris: MTG isn’t a game because games are decided by random opening hands. Also Chris: So most of the games in my top 100 are decided by random chance.

[@thedicetower]

I didn't spend $700 on those random games.

[@GrandElemental]

@@thedicetower ...yet.

[@namelessfire]

@@thedicetower Magic doesn’t require a lot of money to enjoy. Pauper decks are reasonable, cube draft is the best format, and there’s always proxies if you have to play with the expensive stuff. I built my pauper cube for like $80.

[@IndianaGeologist]

If you didn't work at the DT with a full library, you'd probably be getting close to that. ​@@thedicetower

[@thedicetower]

@IndianaGeologist I meant $700 per game. I did own games before working here.

[@brandobond]

Feeling called out! Lots of games I like (and even love) on these lists! Luckily I went in knowing I have vastly different tastes in games than a lot of the DT staff.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I can't tell whether to love or hate Joey. He rips on my beloved Ark Nova but then redeems himself with taking on Blood on the Overrated Clock tower and Gloom !! :D I'll let you off! 😅

[@dblevins343]

As someone who does not like Magic, it's definitely a great game. It ain't for me but it is a good game (with some big flaws).

[@Drew_D]

For me it was fun to play with close friends. I probably wouldn’t want to play with strangers.

[@1AngelAlita]

Scrabble is way better than Ready Set Bet.. ;) I agree with Tom on Mage Knight, though. That one is a brain exercise, not a game.

[@Meatrose]

This is such a great idea for a top-list in front of a live audience. Highly entertaining. 😂

[@SalterThe]

List should have been called "Zee hates czech games" :D :D :D

[@JJ_TheGreat]

48:10 Thank you, Tom! The Mind isn't really even a game!

[@timreuter2164]

I was waiting for really boring, long and ugly but never leaving hotness/top10 games like Cascadia, Star Wars Rebellion, Scythe or Underwater Cities …. But hey, at least Gloomhaven was mentioned!

[@danacoleman4007]

I'm not sure how old Chris is or what his level of ability is with magic, but it would be impossible, literally impossible, to overrate that game. It created/ saved an industry. Also, it can be played in a variety of ways, several of which take the financial aspect out of the equation. Don't get me wrong, I despise Hasbro and what they've done and I will never give them another penny, but, the impact of magic will be felt for many decades to come, I suspect.

[@thedicetower]

I state it's overrated solely as a game. It's undeniably one of the 3 most important games to come out in modern gaming. But I also posit that it's so influential because it's overrated, if that makes sense.

[@alanli6276]

@@thedicetowerI feel like to the board game audience it's actually fairly underrated. Most invested Magic players are insulated into a separate community so on board game sites like BGG it's actually much lower than it probably should be. I think Tom said in one video if MTG players actually flooded to BGG it would probably shoot to #1. Kind of a strange dichotomy

[@danacoleman4007]

@@thedicetower I got you. And thanks for the response. I believe in many cases people's feelings about it mostly have to do with the style of game it is. Specifically CCG, which entails the money aspect. It would be interesting if you could find folks who enjoy games but had never heard of it and introduced it to them as of box of 10 decks that are balanced against each other to see what they think. Without all the other baggage. Just to evaluate it as a game.

[@keithparker1346]

​@@danacoleman4007I had a similar thing happen with me and Dominion...I had never played it but was shown it and became hooked for a couple of months then I dropped it when I realised it's just a cash cow for people to buy more cards and MTG is meant to be far worse. Imo a game is a game ...if you need to keep adding to it it's poorly designed as a game. It's for people with no lives obsessed with collecting imo

[@trueslna]

Camilla is so right about Wingspan :D

[@curtisbaker6160]

I often wait for a long time to play these heavier games that are rated highly, because they are expensive and sometimes over time they start to lose their steam. Fir that reason i just recently tried great western trail. That game has just hung around. I tried it just before this video came out and i hated it so much... I even asked the question out loud, "what is this train even for?" I'm glad to see that im not a crazy person!

[@PaulSzkibik]

I think the first two games of Great Western Trail kind of also didn't click for me at all. But then I just sorta started loving it. I think a game should grab you on the first time and if it doesn't... that's more the designers fault than the players. So that's a flaw of the game maybe, though obviously plenty of people are loving it. I think what "I" love about it is that everytime it's your turn you have to make very crunchy decisions that feel very different and will shape your next turns. I also love that you have to pay attention to what other players are doing because their decisions have a big impact on your own game but at the same time there isn't a lot of mean "take that" in the game. You CAN hire the cheap cowboy some else really wanted, sure, but it never feels mean, because you probably also need it and it's just on theme with the cutthroat nature of these businesses. There's also a lot of satisfaction in it for me, to hire a bunch of cowboys, conductors or builders and get extra stuff. I find the game offers a good amount of "tactility". So if you get to play often with friends, it's worth a shot to just give thise one a couple more tries to see if it suddenly clicks. But if every game night is precious and you only get to play more complex games like every two months or so, then it's absolutely understandable if you don't want to give games second/third chances. PS: The train is really important. Not sure what's confusing about it. The train is a marker for how well developed your own rail infrastructure is. If you leave it underdeveloped (read: you're never moving it forward), you're not investing into "infrastructure" and you'll always lose a lot of profit/money on your cattle sales because thematically you're having to pay extra to ship your cows to, say, New York.

[@mmarcatili]

Hot damn! Joey kills on this list! Even his shots between selections land hard. On fire!

[@TheSpider-hs4jo]

Fun list! The only one i completely disagree with is Betrayal At The House On The Hill, its just fun most of the time if you can buy into the cheesy B-movie theme. where as i agree with Camilla on Wingspan, it seems like the gaming community has decided you should like it because it's high art somehow but only a passible game.

[@jeremiahhammer2282]

After watching this my respect for both Joey and Chris doubled at the very least :)

[@Big_Dai]

Res Arcana!? I don't think the game is even well-rated to be considered overrated! It's also a really good game.

[@GrandElemental]

Underrated if anything in my opinion.

[@petercsm5769]

Props to Joey for consistently winning over the crowd!

[@ericnelson382]

The kids love this game! It’s 100% about the experience of backstabbing and mystery and survival, far more than about actually winning! The laughs, the backstabbing, the sabotage….its all soooo good

[@olgadottir1528]

100% agree with Chris and Zee about Quacks. That would be my number 1 followed by Codenames, Parks and Kingdom Builder (mentioned by Tom).

[@4amayason]

Mr. Joey... Unafraid of controversy 👍 he's cool Doing this theme justice 👏

[@Headbangerr-en2cc]

My number 1 would be... Dune Imperium. I love worker placement. I love deck building. Love Ruins of Arnak, Caverna, Architects of the West Kingdom, and many more. But i hate that game. It's just something in graphic desing that's awful to me. The board is just boring with all these simple shapes. And the gameplay itself feels very mechanic, but at the same time soulless.

[@DrMcFly28]

At this point I'm almost convinced that Mike is not real, he's an AI construct dynamically generated by my phone with a single purpose - to keep track of which boardgames I like and then keep crapping on them

[@krayez]

.....Looking at my brand new, unopened Res Arcana....

[@cursivecurses]

I haven't watched it yet, but Res is one of the best games I've ever played. Haters going to hate

[@ramonosuke]

Don’t worry, if you like Race/Roll or San Juan, you’ll like Res Arcana.

[@dereklinnabary5132]

I love it. Don’t let others spoil your fun without trying it yourself.

[@realjon4220]

Furnace kinda does it better

[@cursivecurses]

@@realjon4220 apples and oranges, but both are amazing