Andromeda - Did it Suck?

For a while now people have been asking me to talk about the sci-fi show Andromeda. I hope those people weren't counting on me praising it all that much though.
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[@Fuzzel]

What weird and tiny thing I really liked about Andromeda was the start of each episode which showed a fictional quote or poem from the Andromeda universe.

[@warellis]

Honestly that is a great thing about Andromeda. That its quotes weren't just of real life figures or people, but also fictional ones. The time period between now and when the show took place was about 2700 years IIRC. That is 2700 years of figures, events, entertainment, war, etc. Too much science fiction, especially ones in the distant future, have a problem of everyone only quoting old quotes from real life. Battletech is a great example of this bad habit. Despite it taking place 1000 years in the future, people there seemed to mostly only look at 20th century history or earlier for quotes or tactics. Andromeda was great because it understood just how much material for fictional quotes you could mine out of 2700 years of history.

[@5Gburn]

Same.

[@cast-faze]

I love that part as well

[@Dragon-Slay3r]

Don't they understand me being like this helps our earth as secretly this earth don't like me or human beings and Ai thinks all people are stupid 😂

[@Dragon-Slay3r]

Why? Because we eat it 😂

[@DaDunge]

4:24 I liked Harper, most of the time, especially when we got a chance to see him not just as comic relief but as actually being a blue collar genius.

[@5Gburn]

Also, now I know where Firefly's "Shiny!" and Wash came from. Love finding these reverse Easter eggs.

[@DaDunge]

@@5Gburnis there actually a link between Andromeda and Firefly?

[@MrGeekFreek]

This show is what started my crush on Lexa Doig. She was (and still is) so hot.

[@alanmike6883]

Same here. My wifu then Daniel Jackson knicked her. Lol

[@alanmike6883]

@Zerebrat Eightyseven The new doctor that replaced Frasier and the daughter of General Landry

[@mememaster147]

I wound up crushing on Laura Bertram. She seems to be super nice IRL as well.

[@alanmike6883]

@@mememaster147 I was a Lexa. But I still liked Laura as well. Down to earth. Ever so nice during her interviews. I believe now she is a teacher today. I Can't believe how quickly time has come

[@mememaster147]

@@alanmike6883 She worked as a teacher for several years but she's gone back into acting last year, reasonably successfully by the looks of it. You can look her up on Instagram @iamlaurabertram.

[@BoondockBrony]

I always will defend Andromeda. The later episodes weren't even that bad. I think the real time it fell off was Tyr leaving. Not midway through the 2nd season.

[@KäptnKrückschwank]

„Weren‘t even that bad“ - convincing

[@theresafisher8781]

Say what you will about Andromeda, the first season still had one of the most kickass theme songs ever written.

[@ML-yn9yu]

Babylon 5's themes enters chat

[@devmag52]

Agreed. Thank you, Alex Lifeson!

[@DaDunge]

@@ML-yn9yu Not even close to Andromeda.

[@kiltedbroshar4187]

Greatest show ever

[@MrHappy4870]

Agreed........ and some moron in a suit had it changed.

[@davididiart5934]

I actually still like Andromeda. You're right on, like, 95% of the stuff you brought up. But still. There's some sort of charm to it I still appreciate.

[@losthor1zon]

That's how I feel about it. I can even tolerate season five, even knowing how much better it could have been.

[@0d138]

True enough. The idea of it is very awesome but the budget obviously didn't do it any favours...

[@usul573]

Yeah I still have a fondness for it. A few times it felt pretty special.

[@RealBadGaming52]

i ve just finished watching all 750 eps of Star Trek across 4 sereisTOS,TNG,DS9,VOY,ENT,STD and 13 movies, because this is from Roddenberry's old ideas i might watch to complete my Roddenberry sci-fi run.

[@lokitus]

It's the show that tried. And really, it did a decent enough job: no Star Trek, Babylon 5, or Stargate, but entertaining.

[@mahatmarandy5977]

I'm actually friends with one of the cast, and between them and some other stuff Robert Hewett Wolfe himself wrote/said elsewhere, it is truly a shame that the show got derailed at the end of the second season. You and your viewers might find this interesting: Basically Wolfe was fired because Kevin Sorbo didn't understand his story arc. It was too convoluted, and since Sorbo was the show, and a producer, they could't get rid of him, so Wolfe went. As the season was already written, they continued to tell Wolfe's story up through the end of season 2, which was always supposed to end as it did. The story would have gotten much more complex after that. Basically over the course of the next season and a half, the cast would disperse. Harper, who would continue to take injuries and have more and more of himself replaced by machine parts would leave the ship and become king of the AIs, basically. Tyr would leverage that whole "Nietschian Messiah" thing (Which he himself didn't believe in) to unify all the prides and become the emperor of them all. Rev Bem was basically going to become Space Pope. Trance would eventually have been revealed to be (A) the living embodiment of a star and (B) a self-identified demon. Apparently all stars are demons. Go figure. Anyway, as the show evolved, it wouldn't have been confined to a central location, nor done many 'planet of the week' episodes. Instead it would have jumped around to various concurrent storylines and locations in the universe. They also gradually grow to be more at odds with each other. Eventually, however, they end up reuniting (Along with their respective forces) to fight the great big evil (Which is *not* a hokey monster called "The Abyss.") In essence, if all went according to plan, and if I understand it correctly, and if my memory is holding up right, the show was to end with the final huge battle resulting in Trance and some other renegade demons effectively collapsing the entire universe back to the big bang, then rewriting certain basic laws, then big-banging it again into a Much Better Universe For Everyone. Not sure what that means, but basically no death, no war, no disease, no hate, just everybody being swell for eternity. Which may or may not have sucked, but it gets major points for originality, and you can't help but be impressed by the scope of it all, right?

[@RowanJColeman]

Holy crap. I still think ending the reuniting the Commonwealth arc in season 2 is a mistake, but that original idea sounds so batshit it would have at least been more interesting.

[@Eternalykegg]

While the above post accurately summarises it, if you (or any of the other viewers are interested) Robert Hewitt Wolfe wrote an entire dialogue between Harper and Trance detailing the arc, which you can read here: www.cyberspace5.net/

[@mahatmarandy5977]

I know, right? You have to appreciate the audacity of a show where the demons turn out to be the good guys. Makes Babylon 5 seem like a family tiff. Speaking of which: I think rebuilding the commonwealth was intended as a 'starter plot.' Kind of like how the Shadows don't turn up until 13 episodes into B5, don't *do* anything until the end of the season, and only really evolve as the focus in the 2nd season. Or how the Drakh Plague would have been cured early in the 2nd season of Crusade, had it not been cancelled. Or how the Blue Sun arc would have kicked in in, had Firefly run just a few more episodes, and that would have dominated the next couple seasons. Sometimes that works, sometimes not. I don't have a lot of faith that Andromeda could have pulled it off, but it's super sad that we didn't get to see them try. At the very worst it would have been a beautiful mess.

[@pizzapicante27]

Frankly it sounds more or less as messy as the last season.

[@FirstnameLastname-kn5sw]

Cosmic ASoIAF... I dig it.

[@simplegarak]

I remember when it came out it was one of the earlier efforts at full viral marketing with a website built around the show that was pretty much wikipedia before wikipedia. I'd lose myself for hours just reading all the background material they had. This show will always have a soft spot in my heart between the sexy Lexa Doig & adorable Laura Bertram. EDIT: I do totally support a possible reboot though.

[@mattwho81]

Andromeda started well, the first two seasons were brilliant. But after that it got worse, season 3 was weak, 4 was bad 5 was just awful. I think it was when they lost the brilliant Tyr/Dylan dynamic, without that the show didn't work.

[@5Gburn]

Oh damn. I'm on S1E6. I'll just pretend I didn't hear that. 😅

[@darrylelam256]

Out of all of the syfy space means of travel I love Andromeda's slipstream the best. It added a need for the 'human' element to fly the ship. No sending probes out, no YOU need to actually go there.

[@bobw1678]

The show had SUCH potential. Better action than most shows of its era, it definitely could have been the militarized action version of star trek. The universe they set up - violent, anarchic, hostile - was a perfect vessel to explore military philosophy, political theory and the nature of man, how societies and governments rise or fall and prosper or dont (the closest I think they got were some throwaway references to Sun Tzu in the episode with the boy-king, forget the episode name, and then a rushed "its a democracy, yay!" ending.) The first season was acceptable, after the second season the whole show lost direction and just felt incoherent. Harper became the paint by numbers annoying childish computer-genius, Trances whole "Im a living star" thing was just...even for this show, there's a suspension of disbelief problem there. Dylan started off as a good character with a lot of potential, but lost the plot. Rommie and Tyr were the two best things about that show, the guy who played Tyr delivered all his lines with such gravity, you could tell he really got into the character.

[@godzilladestroyscities1757]

Tyr was the reason to watch the show. How would he react? It was fun to watch him grow from a true mercenary to a loyal soldier, then they killed him off.

[@williamscoggin1509]

What a lot of people don't realize that it was a feel-good have fun show did everyone can sit there and root for the characters while eating their popcorn at home. Some of the same characters and writers or the same ones in Hercules the TV series which was they have fun for the hero show, and Zina Princess Warrior, the spin-off show up Hercules which was also I laid back feel good root for the hero show. All three of these series were never meant to be completely serious fight to the death blood and guts shows that apparently the guy who posted this video on KZbin wanted it to be. I'm sorry he misunderstood, cuz there was a lot of fun that went on with the characters.

[@ML-yn9yu]

it had so much potential too bad Kevin ruined it in the later seasons but getting a big ego.

[@ShiftyMcGoggles]

One thing that I liked was the actual acceptance of light lag. The information would arrive at the speed of light, or they'd have to send a manned courier vessel.

[@MKDumas1981]

@@ShiftyMcGoggles: "I love real-time." - Dylan, "Belly of the Beast"

[@Pongant]

As a German, I watched this show ("synchronised") in my native language. The German voice actors absolutely elevated the quality of this otherwise generic sci-fi show. I really liked the focus on AI.

[@MrBusinessAsUsual]

In Czech, I remember something similar. The dubbing was top notch; not just the voices themselves (especially Rommy and Harper, they became 100 % better; as in the video he says that Haper was insuffarable, he kinda was in English, but in Czech he was super cool), but the translations. There have been only three time where I was truly impressed with Czech translations, and that was Stargate, Andromeda, and Heroes of Might and Magic IV. Whoever did those, it was labor of love and it showed, hats off.

[@DaDunge]

@@MrBusinessAsUsual I really liked Herper in english too.

[@Sigismund-von-Luxembourg]

This series was actually pretty experimental when it came out.

[@UnimatrixOne]

Da hat er Recht! He's right!

[@5Gburn]

Interesting! I should try the German dubbed version with English subtitles...

[@TheVargr]

It started off good, but got crap half way through season 2 when the writting team changed. A remake of this could be epic and I hope it happens sometime.

[@robertanderson6929]

I agree. And the 5th season was simply a place holder to ensure they got 100 episodes in order to make it into syndication. It was a nice premise. Years later I discovered the Lost Fleet Series of books and Jack Campbell showed how to handle a warrior plucked from the past and thrown into an unstable future.

[@OneofInfinity.]

Deserves a remake, so much potential.

[@shawngillogly6873]

Yep. It was fantastic until the writing change. Then it threw out everything that was good and just made it Hercules in space. I liked Hercules. But Andromeda was a better series with Kevin Sorbo as the 1st among equals, rather than Kevin Sorbo and friends.

[@Francois424]

Agreed. It took a few episodes to get off the ground, then it got really good, then it just... dropped. It felt like the show runners didn't know what they wanted to do anymore and it really showed. Last season is even worse than that.

[@simplegarak]

Word. I get tired of them remaking things that don't need it. (*cough* nuTrek *cough*) Find the brilliant but flawed (or handicapped) ideas out there and do them justice. I'd much prefer to see this on Netflix than Lost in Space.

[@Eyes-of-Horus]

My fondest memory of "Andromeda" was the 4 hottest ladies in any galaxy.

[@NestorCaster]

That show was legit casted and guest casted with horribly attractive ppl.... like unreal attractive.

[@BoleDaPole]

can't put regular people on TV, they'll ugly the show up.

[@NestorCaster]

Constable Dodo then again... it’s largely cast with Canadians... which tend to have Canadian Television and Film “ugly”, be American passable...

[@kdog2000bc]

I agree.

[@robwalsh9843]

Damn straight. Farscape and SG-1 had many fine ladies too. LOL I was such a textbook lonely sci fi dork when these shows were on. I think I only watched Lexx because Zev was so hot. Sad huh?

[@Julikiwi]

The Andromeda Ascendant is only thing I really remember from the show, this ship design was awesome.

[@MrHappy4870]

"Unrealized potential" is the most accurate thing said about the show. A great overall story arc destroyed by senseless detours.

[@LazarusRemains]

I wonder how much of the Neitzschean concept came from Gene Roddenberry - he seems to have had a flair for creating interesting societies - the Klingons, Romulans, Khan's Eugenic Wars Soldiers and the Neitzcheans. Pity the show did the idea little justice. Massively interesting ideas but poor execution. Ideal for a reboot.

[@thetankgarage]

They would've been an exceptionally interesting race if the showrunners had been made to actually read "Thus Spoke Zarathustra". Using that as a Bible would've made them far more complex. Instead we got some weird Ayn Rand fanatics.

[@mahatmarandy5977]

@@KingOfMadCows NONE of the Nietzschians came from Roddenberry. Apart from character names and the general idea of civilization having collapsed, nothing in the show really came from Roddenberry, it was all from RHW. In fact, the Nietzschians weren't even in the original proposal for the show. Keith Cobb auditioned for the part of Hunt, and didn't get it. Once the show was in preproduction, they realized "You know we're all white, right? Call that Cobb guy back." Since he was a last-minute addition to the cast, he was allowed to come up with his own character from scratch, and most of the Nietzschian stuff was his own invention.

[@OneUponADime]

I dont think he created Klingons

[@kevinpogue7294]

I was In the room with Gene Roddenberry in 1984 when the following exchange happened between Gene and a local reporter... Reporter: "Nietzsche once said that hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man." Gene Roddenberry: "Nietzsche was full of crap!" Mic drop!

[@MGSBigBoss77]

P.S. Harlan Ellison R.I.P. on the rewritten script of 'City On The Edge Of Forever. www.vox.com/culture/2018/6/29/17518928/harlan-ellison-star-trek-grudge-science-fiction-rip

[@observerfx212]

Andromeda gave us some great character prototypes which would come to fuller flower in later series. And despite its flaws, I enjoyed the series. Though the final season was rough.

[@FirstnameLastname-kn5sw]

One point in favour of Andromeda though. Tyr's performance was freaking brilliant. That actor put everything into his role. Line delivery, voice projection, ingenue emoting, exaggerated movements and gestures. It was all so weirdly over the top and unique but still so earnestly and fearlessly delivered as to completely work dramatically. There was zero ironic detachment. He delivered those terrible 2000s sci-fi network TV lines like he was doing Macbeth or Coriolanus! And everybody else on set were of course just doing 'normal' network TV acting. Which through contrast just added to making Tyr such a goddamned delight to watch. It was like he had walked off of the set of a Kevin Brannagh movie and onto a network TV studio by accident, but they'd kept rolling and just decided to include Marvel's LOKI on Criminal Minds from now on.

[@curtisshaw1370]

I agree. Keith Hamiliton Cobb did a superb job as Tyr.

[@Mitsukara]

I loved Keith Hamilton Cobb's performance, too! He had a lot of great scenes, especially in season 1.

[@mattwho81]

Tyr was the best thing in the show, once they lost him it was never as good.

[@tyrongkojy]

Agreed. Too bad the character shit the bed when he came back.

[@hellionshark3197]

Dude Tyr was my favorite character. I Wonder if Keith was pissed at how they treated the character in later seasons - I know I was.

[@JoshuaWeirdo]

I actually kind of like Andromeda. I watch it all the time on Comet TV.

[@jamesmason2291]

Me too

[@cainabel6356]

Same here, I watch it on Amazon Prime.

[@stonehorn4641]

Same, I don't love it, but I have fun watching it.

[@simmo1024]

Lexa Doig. I watched as long as I could.

[@Blogofanclub]

So until the 5th season basically lol where she gets replaced with that other blonde chick

[@cr-pol]

i liked the 'trinity' thing they had going with the AI. bummer they dropped it. she wasn't a magnet for me but i thought she was way better than Ledford.

[@NemoConsequentae]

@@cr-pol Still, she found a new home on Earth, at the SGC. Along with an ex astronaut & a Peacekeeper...

[@RRW359]

@@NemoConsequentae Don't forget the EMH.

[@fredericlehman555]

Uff ♡

[@jimmyrustles358]

Tyr was brilliant. The character, the acting, the dialogue, everything. When I heard they he was dropped in season 4 I dropped the show.

[@eurovicious]

Yeah, he was like Andromeda's Worf and he was the most compelling thing about the show.

[@ML-yn9yu]

I dont think he was dropped, he went to Young& the Restless.

[@voutsider190]

He left... But still

[@MKDumas1981]

I don't remember where I read it, but I read that he got Tyrd of all the female attention. What the hell did you expect, walking around in a chainmail undershirt most of the time?

[@ajaxmansion]

The time was rich for a Sci-Fi space series back then. Farscape, Andromeda, Stargate (all versions), Star Trek etc. Good times.

[@godzilladestroyscities1757]

I was too young to appreciate Farscape and SG-1 at the time. I revisited them after they were cancelled, brilliant shows. So much fun.

[@jordant889]

@Richard Schiffman Yup, and Battlestar Galactica.

[@ShiftNova]

Serenity

[@6atlantis]

@@ShiftNova can’t mention serenity without Firefly

[@assistantpossible9818]

farscape is under rated

[@TheBrewjo]

But have you seen my Forcelance? stun rifle, grappling hook, counter mortar battery, tazer, staff weapon....

[@SeaJay_Oceans]

personal portable shield generator too... and attack staff.

[@MrGeekFreek]

I'm disappointed you didn't show the scene of Trance cartwheeling through the halls and yipping while dodging the ship's security system. That scene always makes me laugh.

[@benengle9621]

Watch thebloopers where her tail gets caught on a ladder. 😂😂

[@jazzlover10000]

yeehaw!

[@MKDumas1981]

@@jazzlover10000: Heehaw* 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@evrypixelcounts]

I'm not usually one for reboots, but the premise of this show really has potential. I would love to see it fully realized.

[@5Gburn]

Yes. I could handle a reboot of this one just fine.

[@guyjperson]

I worked on the first season of this. Just a technician. Majel Roddenberry came to bless it. The show and episodes went through dozens of changes. We saw dozens of different color schemese for the ship as we filmed. There really wasn't a handle on what the show was doing. Later, the edict was that we never went on location. So everything had to happen in the parking lot. I think the show had good ideas, but it was never given the ability to make those ideas work.

[@jazzlover10000]

It was better than anything except Stargate. DS9 was almost as good. Enterprise was up there too. All the other Treks sucked in comparison.

[@pauldeegan6652]

It’s great to hear from someone who worked on the show. Thank you. As a humble viewer, I felt that the first season had a budget that was worthy of an ambitious SF show. And the final episode of the first season is one of the most terrifying things I’ve ever seen - and I saw ‘Alien’ when it was first released! Later, the budget was slashed and that became glaringly apparent to anyone who was paying attention. The fact that Gene Roddenberry’s name was attached to it clearly didn’t impress the moneymen. Gene’s other post-mortem show ‘Earth: Final Conflict’, had a similar trajectory: a good first season followed by an embarrassing nosedive in quality later on.

[@scifigrl23]

Any show that lasts more than one season can hardly be called a failure.

[@ManOutofTime913]

That is by no means a mark of quality, however.

[@Blisterdude123]

It absolutely can, for so many reasons. The ways productions are scheduled, shows designed and filmed, the way the greenlighting process factors in, contracts and other suchlike behind the scenes... Getting more than one season is absolutely not always simply a set-in-stone mark of success.

[@warellis]

The problem is that Andromeda's story was essentially cut short 1.5 - 2 seasons in, after they kicked out Robert Wolfe. The story we saw past Season 2 wasn't the story it was supposed to have. It was supposed to be an arc like Babylon 5. So in that sense, sadly Andromeda was forced to fail 😢

[@anthonylogiudice9215]

especially for a Science fiction series. They last only 1 or 2 seasons typically. That's why Farscape for me is a success even though it lasted 4 seasons.

[@scifigrl23]

@@anthonylogiudice9215 I love that show too!

[@melibabe]

I actually liked Harper best. I think some of the issue was the inconsistent writing of the character, not necessarily the acting. Same thing that happened on Stargate Atlantis, McKay wobbled between a) annoying and butt of the joke and b) layered and complex, depending on whether the writer understood the character or just used it for the technobabble. I think if could have been really interesting if the entire thing had been reframed so that it turned out Harper was actually the critical element that Trance was subtly influencing. (Basically, they never would have been able to recover Tarn Vedra without him even though Hunt got all the credit.)

[@StarkeRealm]

When he had stuff to work with, Gordon Woolvett turned out some really good performances, which wasn't often. He definitely suffered from Sorbo sucking the life out of every scene he was in.

[@himwhoisnottobenamed5427]

@@StarkeRealm True. But he’ll always be Gord the PJ Man to me. 😆

[@toasega]

Short answer: It was "Hercules In Space" and it was the most awesome cheesy shlock EVER. So no. It did not suck.

[@godzilladestroyscities1757]

It did not start out as that, but it became that. That's why it ultimately failed.

[@NoESanity]

@@godzilladestroyscities1757 i mean it pretty much did. like he didn't have "stronger than anyone else super strength" but he did have "stronger than anyone else super advanced warship"

[@godzilladestroyscities1757]

@@NoESanity I would say yes and no. The last warship from a super advanced empire. 1 ship is super advanced but everyone else had tons and tons of ships. So at first it seemed like fighting up hill and the ship had to duck and dive to keep a float. Later on it just became the villain of the week. They neutered Tyr, the second they did that, the show started to suck. Kevin Sorbo has not been notable since. Cool fact, I grew up in his hometown. He actually visited my class one day in high school before the show got cancelled. Pretty cool day. Doesn't change how Sorbo ruined the show though.

[@kevinbooth-]

Hercules if you remove all the nuance and self awareness that it held, maybe Really... if that's what you really think then you clearly have the comprehension of the material that one expects a 12 year old to surpass...

[@toasega]

@@kevinbooth- You take it upon yourself to get butthurt about a tongue-in-cheek comment I left over a year ago, and then proceed to do it with such an air of superiority. Amazing. You, sir, are truly the king of the assholes. Truly, you are the poster child for bad behavior within a fandom.

[@writerpatrick]

I never realized how much the Orville is reminiscent of the design of the Andromeda. And the show also has a character from a high-gravity planet. The show seems childish and campy now, but at the time it was much like the other shows on at the time. It can be hard to even re-watch an episode of ST:TNG. Although it never felt like it ever really lived up to it's potential.

[@foxmulder4041]

I love Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda. The Story, The Ship, The Effects, The Cast and so much more. I'm even watching it on DVD again right now and honestly, Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda is also a series that you can watch all the time. So in my opinion it belongs on the 5th place of my favorites under the theme series

[@bankai1701]

there was a lot about Andromeda I did like but season 5.... that was just painful to watch... after the original show runner left someone was brought in to take his place and make EVERY episode about Dylan and having the other characters just be there...

[@DavidTSmith-jn5bs]

Which was the goal of Producer Kevin Sorbo! Which proves a quote I once read "The price you have to pay for having what you want is having what you ONCE wanted."

[@Gregbaltzer]

the main production company, Fireworks, was closed down by Canwest in 2004 which lead to the show being cancelled in 2005 and probably the very limited budget they had to work with in season 5. They probably just didn't have the budget for CGI and FX anymore, so they just had the ship floating in space. And of course Lexi was pregnant which is why her character got the change, and limited role, it did.

[@chriscowey7464]

I loathed season 5 initially, much worse than the previous 4, mainly as it has a totally different feel to it, however its a bit odd, if you kind of watch it as a series on its own, it kind of works better, to the point I actually quite like it now, but its not really Andromeda, I think the writers watched firefly and thought, hmm western in space.....As mentioned in the video, this is one sci-fi that needs a reboot, but not a dark reboot like they all seem to be doing, but more lighter feel.

[@Jauhl1]

Basically agree, I thought the actually greatest problem was dynamics, and specifically Zorbo. Had he been restricted to the role of a idealistic noble captain, a stranger in time , whose dreams of a new Commonwealth are thwarted by the new reality while the rest of the crew helps him bridge the gap, it would have been much more compelling. Instead of playing a central part in an ensemble like say Picard, Zorbo goes Hercules in space and the rest of the cast just holds his coat.

[@robertchapman625]

Ya, the premise itself has some good story opportunities but in part ruined by a network and producer that didn't want to go with it. Also its funny to think that most of the Old Commonwealth cruisers, destroyers, and above can give a good fight, if not win, against some of the better known science fiction ships out there one on one despite very real world grounded.

[@dcsignal5241]

Come on, don't hold back, how do you really feel about Kevin Sorbo?🤣

[@DavidTSmith-jn5bs]

It could have been worse! He was up for the part of Superman in "Lois & Clark" before he was cast as Hercules. That would have expanded his ego to have been on a Big 3 Network fantasy show before Andromeda!

[@lokitus]

He's so dreamy.

[@sladewilson9741]

I love Kevin Sorbo. Is it camp? Absolutely. Camp and fabulous.

[@pcuimac]

🤮

[@hisxmark]

@@lokitus So is a nightmare.

[@maxcovfefe]

The rumor I heard at the time was that Sorbo didn't want it to be too scientific - he wanted "pew, pew, pew, punch, kick..." without too many lines of technical dialogue. He had no faith in an intelligent audience. He didn't understand that sci fi fans like _science_ fiction. Personally, I think the problem is Kevin's intelligence, not his audience.

[@SadamSkywalker]

Andromeda: A giant ball of squandered potential.

[@Bipolarama]

I actually loved both Try and Harper. If you look at the characters through the the lens that they a completely overcompensating for sever trauma that occured in their early life, it makes them much more compelling

[@startingQB]

Yeah, apparently not many people understand their trauma.

[@CRocketSlim]

Andromeda suffered from having some stiff competition, and production issues, and a really odd final season, but it had some cool things too. Loved most of the cast. More scifi series need remote controlled battlemechs

[@cainabel6356]

Agreed. Mostly it failed due to the competition.

[@fedupN]

I disagree with your assessment of the costumes. I love TNG but 80s spandex is not necessarily better than sturdier construction. I loved that Andromeda showed they were a MILITARY vessel, whereas the Starfleet pretended otherwise...when they were. Additionally, the Nietzscheans WERE tribes! That was built into who they were. All that advancement and potential handicapped by their massive bloated egos and selfishness. Hell, best episode in the series, Unconquerable Man, explored that.

[@CoinOpTV]

Important question - will there be an audio book version of Paragon and will Rowan be the one narrating it?

[@RowanJColeman]

The answer is yes to both of those questions :)

[@truthoftheuniverse4179]

IT SUCK

[@RapidCityJM]

That would be awesome!

[@damiandorhoff719]

@@RowanJColeman Can you check out Lexx the dark Zone

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

@@damiandorhoff719 please do not. ;)

[@quicksilvertongue3248]

The odds of an Andromeda reboot are severely hampered by the fact that, like Star Trek, it was Gene Roddenberry's creation, and thus getting the legal rights are unlikely to be easy or cheap.

[@RapidCityJM]

The Nietzscheans were also one I never understood. On screen they act all urbane and conniving, like the drow from D&D, the one episode that sticks out is where an ally used a clause in a treaty to get the Andromeda to help fight against their enemies. Yet their society seems committed to literal Darwinism and genetic purity. It's like someone created them to basically be futuristic Nazi-wet dreams without understanding Nietzsche's philosophy... Makes my head hurt just thinking about it.

[@curtisshaw1370]

Despite their name, they're based as much on Objectivism as Nietzscheism. I like the idea of the Nietzscheans. They thought the could do a better job than the Commonwealth, so they overthrew it thinking they'd become the Philosopher Kings of the new world. Instead they destroyed civilization, and they ended up becoming corrupted bastardizations of their former selves in the world they created. I don't think they were fully successful, but I do think that was the intent.

[@rmsgrey]

From memory (it's been a while), the single most important tenet of the Nietzscheans is that survival justifies anything - if A kills B, then it was B's fault for dying, not A's fault for killing him. Attached to that is the idea that it's the genes that matter, not the individual, so if A kills B, all of B's family is then in trouble unless they can kill A (and A's family). Unsurprisingly, a system that encourages treachery and blood-feuds leads to a lot of treachery and blood-feuds. But you also have exceptions - individuals who transcend the society they're in - and those are the ones who deal with Hunt rather than ignoring or trying to kill him. And, yeah, one of the minor points about them on the show is that they represent a misunderstanding of Nietzsche, rather than a faithful embodiment of his ideas.

[@lexxstrum]

Their society was kinda a mess (didn't think of the Drow angle, now I have a better way to explain them), but one thing I thought was stupid was the DAMN ARMBLADES? How in the 9 hells were those things supposed to promote survival of the fittest? How many times did Tyr's armblades get him out of trouble? Now how many times did Trance's cute lil tail get them out of trouble? So, a prehensile tail would be more advantageous then some spurs on your arm, right? I had heard that they wanted to do more, like prosthetic appliances or contacts or something, but either the budget or the actor went against it If they did do a reboot, I'd make the Nietzscheans more transhumanist: maybe the routinely do genetic tweaks to improve their abilities; or maybe they sport all sorts of gene modifications in an effort to make a superhuman; or maybe something really approaching super powers (some Pride members are psychic, others might have enhanced physical abilities, maybe even some minor energy/mater manipulation; heck, Trance was a living star, so why would a Nietzschean telekinetic be such a stretch?)

[@mahatmarandy5977]

Just to recap: the Nietzschians were fanatical followers of the philosophy of Friederich Nietzsche. So much so that they genetically altered themselves to become a human subspecies. They betrayed the commonwealth when it signed a treaty with the magog, and then, once the commonwealth was gone, they started falling upon each other trying to grab as much as they could. I'm dealing with 20 year old memories here, but I think I recall Tyr saying several times that their civilization was now kind of a parody of what the founders had wanted.

[@rmsgrey]

@@mahatmarandy5977 Kinda - they don't so much follow Nietzsche as a garbled pop-culture version of Nietzsche. And, yeah, they were genetically engineered to be a breed of superior warrior-poets, but turned against the Commonwealth when they thought it had betrayed its people by making peace with the Magog, but, without that stable central government to keep society together, rather than stepping up as leaders and guiding people by example, they quarreled amongst themselves, and became a bunch of warring tribes, following strength and betraying or conquering weakness. Some were exceptions - a faction continued to uphold the ideals of the Commonwealth, recognising that individual superiority was still inferior to numerical superiority, and trust and co-operation was more efficient and effective than paranoia and treachery. Or the Sabra-Jaguar Pride, while still Nietzschean, under Charlemagne Bolivar, were inclined to regard a reputation for integrity as an asset rather than a nuisance.

[@dylanehooverlibrarian7026]

I found even the first series sophorific. It looked cheap, true, but it it was landly shot & uncompellingly edited. The dialog in the pilot didn't really sell the characters as anything beyond 1-note and I found little reason to care for the Commonwealth beyond "trust us, it's utopian, guys". I didn't like it as a kid and my opinion hasn't changed now. A shame, because the description of plot summaries (and plans) sound like straight-up Lensman goodness

[@ODST_Parker]

Yes, it was a complete and utter disappointment and an insult to any fan of the Mass Effect franchi... oh, THAT Andromeda.

[@RowanJColeman]

Haha not wrong on the Mass Effect front though either

[@NemoConsequentae]

I don't know. The fans were already used to being set up, given the ending they shipped Mass Effect 3 with...

[@ODST_Parker]

@@NemoConsequentae To me, it wasn't the ending itself that pissed me off, but the part where Bioware said to take it at face value. If they had simply rolled with the Indoctrination Theory and continued Shepard's story, I think everything would be fine.

[@NemoConsequentae]

@@ODST_Parker Point. I was thinking more in the manner of "every decision you make has repercussions" spiel, vs "pick which one of the 3 options we give you, and you die", reality.

[@ODST_Parker]

@@NemoConsequentae Yeah, that was pretty shitty too.

[@stfalx]

It did not suck! It was actually very well done for that time period. I am a fan. Watched entire series 2 times. Would rewatch. Quite enjoyable!

[@chaoticneutral7573]

Cry about it 😂

[@christianmathew398]

I agree great show this dude comes off as a typical Kevin Sorbo hater, if he gives props to the snooze fest that is Farscape he shouldn’t complain about Andromeda.

[@McGinty84]

​@@christianmathew398lol "typical Sorbo hater" likes it's some sort of conspiracy. Did you miss the part where he talks up the show's good points?

[@krupke525]

My uncle Dave Ward played the arms dealer guy on the episode “Lava and Rockets” That was pretty cool to see as a kid.

[@patricaomas8750]

Kevin Sorbo, recently saw him complain that Hollywood turned its back on him because of his religion, and not that he was a lump.

[@supsup335]

And somehow I still rewatched the Series 4 Times. And for some strange reason (that i REALLY don't know) I like Harper and Hunt.

[@IRMentat]

they not just bordered on parody but seemed to lean into it, not quite self aware but close enough that the outcome was similar.

[@DrJReefer]

Did you pretend season 5 never happened?

[@jonathansoko1085]

@@DrJReefer Yeah its not great, but that doesn't undo the good the show did.

[@Obeisance-oh6pn]

yes! i have watched it many times! i loved all the characters.

[@Jeremiah90526]

@@DrJReefer What is this Season 5 you speak of? Andromeda had 4 seasons. Everything else you are thinking of is a fever dream, no more.

[@danielortman2534]

Sorbo isn't bad if you have him playing the macho-paragon hero. Also, don't look into him too much as a human being (generally a good idea with celebrities), and make sure his writing fits what he can do well. I'm rewatching the show now, and it strikes me as a good show that could have been great if the writing and direction matched the concept.

[@HussamKazah]

Have you seen Dark Matter? I would like to hear your opinion on that show!

[@RowanJColeman]

Dark Matter is on my list

[@Palora01]

@@RowanJColeman I would say give it a few episodes for it to get going (which is usually a red flag for me as well ^^).

[@robkemp598]

Absolutely it's a great show only cancelled because of syfy channel finance decisions not a lack of fan base

[@JohnSmith-kf8mv]

Dark Matter was frikn awesome. The writing made it feel like none of the charcters was the "main" one. Which ever one was your fav, in any ep, that character would get a chance to be awesome / a chance to shine. Never feeling like they'd left some of the guys on the sidelines while others took centre stage.

[@mememaster147]

@@JohnSmith-kf8mv I loved it too though there were some weird jumps between series, like Five's personality transplant where she goes straight from scared teenager to mowing down enemies with a huge gun. It also cemented Roger Cross' typecasting as a supporting character weighed down by his conscience who blows himself up heroically. I loved the ship interior sets too, it was like the set designer had played Halo round the clock for a week before remembering that they had a ship interior to design.

[@leodouskyron5671]

Important- there is a reason it failed -Kevin Sorbo took over as the lead producer when the second season started. He said the show was too smart and make it more like Star Trek. So the Neitian became Klingons, Sorbo became Kirk and all the long term plans for the series became toast. If you want to see what was the plan lookup/google “ *Andromeda Coda* ” after reading it, You will see they took a lot of what Wolfe was planning and you and see how it was mutated. The changes included - Sorbo *always* being right and the ultimate hero in the mold of Captain Kirk (a character you may have heard of). Unlike in Trek, her believed this required focus on him and thus all other characters were negatively affected. To start, Dylan must be smarter and “righter” then everyone. This kills the series by strangling the drama. Anything that challenges that had to go. Example and IMHO- Keith Cobb was a Soap Opera Star and a heart throb and that continued on Andromeda. That was made even more clear with his chemistry with Lisa Rider (Beka). This lead to script changes to correct the focus. He had to be threaten often and a lot more grunting and being barbaric and alway he has to be wrong. Is he talking about his people - he is wrong and Dylan knows them better. What about politics and cultures In this new era - nope Tyr knows nothing and Dylan got it all down. When Keith H Cobb complained about his character devolving in public, he was *allowed* to leave. From that time on every show started with a is this the evil Tyr moment. This continued until he agreed to come back to die in the show (it was said so he could end the contract and never work with Sorbo again.) When Tyr died, Did it mater that this was out of character, universe inconsistent and scene incompatible with the story logic - nope. Sorbo was happy. He made many changes cause the actor thought he knew the fans so well. So the show had no over arcing story line (this is after DS9 and Babylon5, Stargate (all of them) and even Battlestar all showed how that works). It was dumbed down storylines ( even as the audience was expecting smarter stories). And it all had to be about him. And being Captain Kirk was not enough for Sorbo; in the end he even made himself a Space God and the most *powerful being in creation* ! This series should have been great and Sorbo ... Herc it down to suckville.

[@godzilladestroyscities1757]

This is the correct review. You nailed it. One man's ego destroyed the entire show. An actor should never be the producer. Actors are people that pretend to be other people for a living. They don't know anything about anything.

[@hajostork9351]

So essentially, he already was the main character, but he also wanted to be the Mary Sue.

[@papajon7007]

100% agreement!! The show became more and more a vehicle for Sorbo’s ego. Remember when he had to make love to save a planet? Only he could do it! I kept watching the show out of a morbid curiosity just to see how bad it could get.

[@Nobody-Nowhere]

Just finished watching the 5 season, it was a great show. Exactly what i was looking for, basically a teenage fantasy. Not every show needs to be super serious, this was just not one of those. Much like stargate never took it self too serious, it was fun adventure where the people were the main thing.

[@RabbitShirak]

Great video. Are we gonna get a video about Earth Final Conflict someday?

[@RowanJColeman]

Maybe... 😏

[@cr-pol]

talk about disappointments ....

[@godzilladestroyscities1757]

I never wanted to watch that show because the aliens looked too weird. I will never watch that show for the same reason. The aliens freak me out. I can deal with monsters and golems and weird looking things, but the aliens in that show freaked me out.

[@WhiskeyBrewer]

Now that's a show that sadly dropped the ball

[@Curupira106]

No joke, I've been getting Scott Bakula and Kevin Sorbo confused since I was a child. I was watching ST: Enterprise and Andromeda around the same time so my mind kind of just put them together. I'm not saying I think they look alike but child me thought they were the same person. It was only just now as you connected Kevin Sorbo to those Pureflix movies that I realized he wasn't the guy from Enterprise. I actually feel better about liking Enterprise now. It wasn't a great show but at least it didn't have Kevin Sorbo.

[@daltongriffin7657]

So you’re saying that if I just watched up to season 2 finale, I wouldnt really need to watch past that?

[@jazzlover10000]

Final season is the most interesting by far. But you have to watch the others or it won't make sense.

[@darrengaroutte7744]

In an age of reboots I agree this is one show that could use such a treatment. I'd love to see this series come back with the original show runner's frame work to build it out. I also would have liked it if the traitorous first officer and captain both survived to see the bleak future. I think it could make for some interesting story telling to see to former friends have to reunite for the greater good.

[@himwhoisnottobenamed5427]

Another good show to reboot would be Alien Nation.

[@sparrowlt]

This show with Galactiva/Expanse type showrunner/writers could be really good

[@StefanTravis]

Season 1: Very promising Season 2: Meh Season 3: Promising again Season 4: Running out of steam Season 5: Pile of absolute cack

[@MGSBigBoss77]

Season 1: Very promising (and had an epic season final cliffhanger) Season 2: Good (but the main showrunner/headwriter left and the vision was destroyed) Season 3: Average but had several strong episodes in it Season 4: Meh (killing off Tyr was a huge mistake, and what the hell happened to this show vibe going on?) Season 5: Absolute sh*t and thensome ^Series suffered after Kevin Sorbo took the ensemble show that it was, and built it around his Dylan Hunt character instead!

[@RRW359]

Season 1: Absolutely great. Season 2: Started great but ended mediocre. Season 3: Sub-par but still watchable with the occasional gem. Season 4: Terrible but at least semi-coherent. Season 5: Terrible and hard to follow, plus lacking one of the series's best characters until the end.

[@BTScriviner]

I vaguely remember watching the first season (probably because of Keith Hamilton Cobb), but I don't think I stuck around for subsequent seasons. I don't even recall any individual storylines. I do remember that I *hated* the AI ship character. And, of course, Kevin Sorbo is now a 100% deplorable human being, as he proves every single day. Reading through the comments is hilarious. Sure are a lot of Kevin Sorbo sock puppets going on about how great the show was and how great an actor he is.

[@tinamoul]

They really need to remake Andromeda, the universe is amazing, the execution wasn't great

[@williamhowe1]

Or a spinoff in the same universe.

[@jazzlover10000]

I liked everything except Trance's weird circus friend in the last seaso and that stupid worldship.

[@infiniteflame2374]

I watched all 5 seasons and I still have no fucking idea what any of it was about.

[@mrnickbig1]

Short answer: Andromeda started out quite well, then totally went off the rails with completely stupid metaphysical crap!

[@TheLunacyofOurTimes]

Charisma vacuum. LMAO. So true about Sorbo. I'm not even sure why he's famous. Hercules played in the dead afternoon slot here (anywhere between 3-5pm) and was super cheap to produce.

[@TheCyberloki]

I do agree with most of your points. Except for the bulky interiour of the Andromeda basically i kind of liked the concept that not always future tech needs to be shiny and twinkling. And for the concept of not having shields but basically directing the force of the explosions through (in combat state) empty corridors and guiding it away from important systems i found very interesting. Also i liked the Nitschenans with their divided culture like if everyone is genetically engineered to be dominant and fight to get on top it can backslash on the society. So they are strong if teaming up against an common enemy but in times of peace everyone is fighting for the leadership and so they pick them self to pieces. Also the depiction of AI was futuristic while i always missed something similar in star trek.

[@Spike-Prime]

Minor note, but since you mentioned it--Voyager was doing such a piss-poor job of its original premise, it probably would've been better if they HAD gotten home at the end of season 5. That would at least have allowed them to explore interesting ideas, like a post-Dominion war Federation. Instead it was the same boring crap week in, week out that they'd been doing since season 1.

[@danielyeshe]

My biggest problem with Andromeda, aside from Sorbo, was I never felt they established the premise well. We hear that the Commenwelrh was great but all we see of it is a warship going into battle. Then after the fall it never felt like things were that bad. And when I watched it if felt like the founding of the new Comenwelth practically happened off screen!

[@ettanasf]

Daniel O'Donovan oooof. If you wanna talk messy premise let’s talk Earth Final Confluence *ahem* Conflict!!

[@MrBottlecapBill]

@@ettanasf earth final conflict wasn't messy really. Advanced Aliens come to earth to use us as weapons to fight a secret war they're losing, while telling us they're here to gift us with their wisdom. The hero and the resistance unlock the mystery. Until........well that whole transformation mess lol. It had some gitchy episodes and earth gave the aliens way more power than they ever would but over all it wasn't horrible until the transformation crap.

[@ettanasf]

Bill Kennedy right. Messy. The first season or two was nifty. When everything changed it got stupid.

[@Necropheliac]

One thing I didn’t hear you mention is how obnoxious it is to see Captain Hunt get into some contrived romance in so many episodes. Every time it happens it makes me groan because he comes off as just a wet hot dog ready for any bun. Any time there’s an attractive female guest star, the odds are that there’s going to be a romance subplot with Hunt.

[@avsiii7661]

I remember Andromeda - I always consider this show to be 'Hercules in Space'.

[@JerseyDevilBM]

"Being tall and in-shape does not constitute having a personality" - I LITERALLY laughed out loud hearing that; thank you for calling out Kevin Sorbo! The only good thing to come out of "Hercules" was Lucy Lawless as Xena. I am a born-and-bred sci-fan fan, books, TV and movies, having been initiated by my parents as a child. I have watched movies and TV show ranging from Pulitzer Prize-level brilliant to "who did they have pictures of with a donkey to get THIS made?" putrid, just because "sci-fi". When I heard that the new show "Andromeda" was going to star Sorbo, my immediate reaction was trepidation and I watched the first two seasons as that feeling escalated to disappointment and dismay. Poor characterizations, terrible effects, incomprehensible plots finally made me only view it if absolutely nothing else watchable was on. In truth, the only thing that kept me coming back was Keith Hamilton Cobb as Tyr Anasazi - he's HOT (can't blame me for THAT!).

[@theonlymatthew.l]

I disagree, I thought Michael Hurst was another great thing that came out of the Hercules show

[@MovieGuy0896]

Andromeda is basically the baby brother to Star Trek ,Star wars, Stargate, Battlestar galactica, and Babylon 5.

[@RapidCityJM]

More like prematurely born bastard child I think...

[@Great.Milenko]

@@RapidCityJM with downes

[@Mitsukara]

Well, timing wise, it started when Voyager was still running and Enterprise was about to start, ran alongside the latter years of SG-1 (and just barely with the beginnings of Atlantis and the Galactica reboot), and well after Babylon 5, TOS, or original Galactica. The lead developer the first two seasons, Robert Hewitt Wolfe, got his big start on Star Trek TNG and especially on Deep Space Nine.

[@MovieGuy0896]

@@Mitsukara this proves that pretty much everything sci-fi is connected.

[@CornerTalker]

Maybe nitpicky, but I can't help but see how many set shots have large blank areas in the background.

[@mahatmarandy5977]

I actually agree with most everything you've said here, but I have a couple respectful quibbles, most of which are personal taste. Firstly, you started off saying "In the year 2000." I think you meant '3000,' but as far as I can remember they never say when the show take place other than, "A very long time in the future." All dates are given in the alien Commonwealth calendar, and there's no stated correlation between that and ours. No big. I agree the interior of the ship doesn't match the gorgeous exterior. I differ on the subject of uniforms and color scheme, though. I personally always felt like Enterprise-D bridge looked and felt like a dentist's office, and the hallways felt like a Best Western (A low-cost motel chain here in the 'States). Just very bland. The TNG uniforms EVENTUALLY looked pretty good (You know, after 2 or 3 revisions), but they weren't very functional. No pockets, they're just a bit too snug to really move around in, raise your arm and the shirt pops up over your belly. The Andromeda uniforms looked comfortable and functional, though I never figured why they *always* had the jacket on. I liked the tie-down holsters, (Though they should have stuck with just one, rather than two. Made it look like they were wearing garters/suspenders.) The redesign in season 2 (All black) looked a little better. While I didn't like the Andromeda bridge (Nor did they since they redesigned it in season 3), it did at least look like things were going on (And I liked the helm chair thing being in the middle). Again, I agree the interior doesn't match the exterior (Which I feel should have looked more like the interior of the SeaQuest), but it did get across the idea that this was a warship, and seemed more functional. I was surprised you didn't mention the weirdly random crew size. We're told it normally has 5000 people, but it seemed to run just fine with just seven people, so what did the other 4993 people DO? And after the Commonwealth is reformed, sometimes it has a full crew, sometimes it's just the main characters, and it changes from week to week, with absolutely no explanation whatsoever.

[@RowanJColeman]

I was referring to when the show itself started which was in 2000. And yeah I don't get the crew compliment thing either. It's so weird. I remember one episode Tyr just rocked up with a security team out of nowhere. And they all ended up dead.

[@clearmountain28]

Well the changing crew numbers in later seasons does make no sense, but as for the excess crew I think the implication is that most of those routine positions can be handled by the ship and her drones. Checking sensors, pulling triggers, etc. But this cuts down on her efficiency and internal defense capabilities. I always assumed that Andromeda was suffering a constant 'headache' just keeping the ship running but, because of her sense of duty, she put up with it and never complained.

[@mahatmarandy5977]

@@RowanJColeman Whups. My mistake. Sorry man. I'm a dope.

[@mahatmarandy5977]

@@clearmountain28 Well, I guess it makes as much sense as anything else on the show, but it would have been nice if they'd mentioned or at least alluded to something like that. Or given some sort of onscreen handwave ("I'm primarily a troop transport, which is what all the extra space is for," something like that)

[@clearmountain28]

@@mahatmarandy5977 no argument from me, like Rowan said, this show had great potential but really bad execution. I don't hate it but I do feel let down by how it ended up.

[@alexandresobreiramartins9461]

I always thought the Magog were meant to portray vampire bats. Not that it makes them any less incoherent. But I'm sure insects is not what they were intended to represent. Their whole facial design is of a vampire bat. And it's a pity that both the Abyss and the Magog world ship were literally disregarded during the series. If anyone thinks they were resolved in any way, please explain it to me, because as I saw it, they were just thrown aside like a CLAMP anime being neglected by the writing team because they got bored with the story.

[@hellionshark3197]

Yet anotehr show ruined by Ego. This show needs to be revisited with Robert Hewett Wolfe as a writer.

[@MGSBigBoss77]

So agreed!

[@mahatmarandy5977]

Gordon Michael Woolvelt, who played Seamus Harper, wrote a few of the episodes. When the show ended he pitched a sequel/spinoff for a while, but never found any takers. I don't know the premise or anything, but I've always been interested to know what it was. I *think* it may have been the adventures of the crew of the Eureka Maru *after* the events of Andromeda, but I've never been able to find anything out. Any of y'all know anything about it?

[@AryaStarkTheExplorer]

It wasn't picked up by the scifi channel. They were trying to get rid of all their sci-fi shows. After BSG ended.

[@mahatmarandy5977]

@@AryaStarkTheExplorer Nah, I don't think that's true. BSG ended in 2009, Sanctuary ran to 2011, Warehouse 13 ran to 2014, SGU ran until 2011, Defiance ran from 2013-2015, the expanse ran from 2015-2018 I mean, definitely the network changed focus around 2010, but they never *stopped* running SF shows, they just started running a lot more crappy shows, and a few good ones like The Expanse and SGU. And remember: Syfy *did* pick up Andromeda for a 5th season. It got absolutely crap ratings, so they simply weren't interested in Woolvelt's spinoff idea. AFAICT, it never went beyond the pitch stage. (I've tried to talk to him about it a couple times, and gotten nowhere, and nobody else seems to know anything about it at all)

[@neilthomas6042]

It has not dated well and as you watch it you realise how poor it is. Having said that I still find myself watching certain episodes.

[@darrenrenna]

I watched Andromeda's rerun on the Sci-Fi Channel. Your critique is spot on, another weak point is that the show did not know its audience, was it the goofy sci-fi successor to Hercules and Xena or trying to shooting for the Star Trek and Babylon 5 market? The demographic who liked Hercules and Xena would not get or care about all the historic and mythological word play that was forced into the writing. Older audiences who get the names Nietzchian and Magog would be put off by the goofy and often juvenile tone of the show. Overall it was still a nice guilty pleasure on weekend mornings while I was in college and I have fond memories of it, despite its many flaws.

[@nickokona6849]

There were some quality threads, but as a cloth it was very meh. I liked Keith Cobbs Tyr. Far more than Ronan Dex. I liked the idea of the Force Lance as a quarter staff. Trek always seemed lacking that Starfleet didn’t have a melee weapon considering how often they get into fights. But I prefer the Minbari fighting pike. Lots of very hot actors in this show. I also really liked the way they present the slipstream. One of my favourite FTL mechanics.

[@jazzlover10000]

Both Stargate and Andromea are 'hard fantasy.' Pretty cool, both of them. The humor helps them work. Star trek is meh... so boring I could fall asleep... except a few of the alternative universe episodes. Enterprise was ok. DS9 had some great episodes (IT'S A FAAAAKE!)

[@garnauklaufen6704]

I'd like to point out how bad the "Nietzscheans" are. It's common to completely misunderstand Nietzsche. But in most cases, references to Nietzsche are minor points in most narratives that refrence his work. In this case it's a pretty big deal, which makes it completely embarassing and shows how careless the writing of the show is handled.

[@amaxamon]

This show was pure fun, I don't know how anyone could dislike it.

[@raybellows9851]

For the reasons outlined in the video...

[@annoyed707]

How? Two words: Kevin & Sorbo.

[@lucianboar3489]

yes! that's why I don't get the Kevin Sorbo criticism, it's not the Expanse, ffs. And I loved the last season, I don't remember much from it but it had a lexx vibe (first two seasons) and that's fine by me, that was and is a very rare thing

[@ManOutofTime913]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I was pretty bored trying to get into to be honest.

[@JerseyDevilBM]

It is so refreshing to hear a proper criticism of a show without fan-nish personal attacks on this person or that. Your observations are on-target and correctly address the limitations of this show. I had watched Sorbo's "Hercules" (but much preferred "Xena") and came to the same conclusion about his lack of acting talent, so was not enthusiastic when I heard about this upcoming show. As a true sci-fi fan, I was hopeful when anticipating its premiere but was disappointed from the start and lost interest soon into the first season, though I would periodically watch it through to its end. As you said, an opportunity wasted. But Tyr Anasazi was HOT!

[@Stephstrikesback]

I remeber watching this show as a teenager. The first season was AMAZING. Even then, before I became aware of behind-the-scenes politics, I wondered wtf happend. You took an amazing premise (s1) and ruined it by 10 episodes (s2). I also remember thinking just how insufferable Sorbo was. He was so obviously one dimensional that there was no drama. You knew exactly what he'd do by the end of the opening. Since he was also played as a practically omnipotent captain, you knew he wouldn't let his team stray either. There were so many missed opportunities in this show that it's tragic.

[@calebwalters1869]

Well I completely disagree with your analysis of Kevin Sorbo. I'm not saying he's a great actor, but he doesn't suck. I may never describe him as one of the best, but I have seen quite a range of acting from him. He can definitely act, maybe your range of preference as a viewer just doesn't match up with his range as an actor, or isn't wide enough to include it. I do agree that the show is rather corny, but I interpreted it's delivery as more playful or for fun which is totally fine. Also, what you seem to interpret as societal/cultural/species contradictions do not register as such for me. I'm well aware of cases real and imagined where such things are a reality, so to me it's just more unique than much sci-fi. As to the AI, there were some good elements, but I don't see how it was more redeeming than some other aspects of the show. The presentation of AI in Andromeda always felt so fake to me, and not in the way it's meant to (not that it wasn't enjoyable). I could go on, but I said basically what I wanted to.

[@WyrdBlogger01]

Tho few and far between, the good episodes of Andromeda really hit it out of the park.

[@enilenis]

Worked on the last 2 seasons of Andromeda in the VFX department. So many fun memories.

[@SeaJay_Oceans]

I wonder if anyone knows the total budget of Andromeda vs the Total Budget of Star Trek : The Next Generation ? Vancouver productions always had a notably lower budget than Star Trek.

[@enilenis]

@@SeaJay_Oceans Vancouver productions were definitely much cheaper than TNG. Most work for Andromeda was handled by a dozen small independent vendors with little or no cross-coordination. It's amazing that there was any resemblance of style at all, since every effect was treated as a one-off. I'd get shots for gun blasts or holograms and had to scout earlier episodes myself to figure out whether the same type of effect was ever present. There was no design bible, no asset sharing. How did it manage to work out? I have no idea.

[@SeaJay_Oceans]

@@enilenis Thank you for your knowledge. This is the point most people miss. Andromeda was created on a much smaller budget, but still churned out the shows episode after episode, certainly some where finished very close to the deadline. Producer Kevin Sorbo put a lot of effort to keep the show running even while still acting in the episodes. Everyone getting a paycheck for all those years are fortunate that Andromeda didn't get the same treatment as Caprica or Firefly. So for a very enjoyable show, I am thankful for all the cast and crew and back office staff that made it possible. I had not seen the show on broadcast, but found the "Andromeda: The Slipstream Collection" DVD full boxed set on sale at Christmas time in 2011, having never seen it before. www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/24313/gene-roddenberrys-andromeda-the-slipstream-collection/#packaging I bought it strictly from the cover, completely off of the image of the Andromeda Ascendant and Jacket explanation. I am happy I bought it back then, and glad to see it came out on blu-ray too!

[@lordboston05]

Kevin Sorbo in Andromeda sucked, but dont hate on Hercules. He was born for that level of acting.

[@marccolten9801]

What about God's Not Dead?

[@lordboston05]

@@marccolten9801 As a Christian I cant even stand to watch that movie so...

[@proggyboi7115]

@@marccolten9801 The irony is, he's probably the best performance in God's Not Dead...

[@marccolten9801]

@@proggyboi7115 You won't find a bar that low unless you enter a limbo contest.

[@odysseusrex5908]

Hmph, I think I might have watched two episodes of this during the first season and decided not to waste anymore time on it. I had no idea it had gone on for five seasons. That's hard to believe. I'll just say this, I liked Kevin Sorbo as Hercules.

[@jefferickson5833]

I remember loving this show. Particularly the first part of the series. I also remember that the last season made no damn sense to me. It was like their budget dropped to a couple bucks an episode.

[@jcshay8121]

This one hundred percent. If you notice in season 5 a lot of the variables pointed to a massively reduced budget per episode. You rarely ever saw the whole crew together a lot of the episodes in Season 5 revolved around 1-2 of the cast (they changed which crew members were featured from episode to episode) which was obviously intentional to not have to pay all the cast for every episode. Also the set was dreadful and obviously re-used from something else, just a junk western style town. The special effects in each episode in season 5 were kept to a minimum (excluding the final few episodes).They even shot a whole episode inside that bar. I don't know why they bothered with season 5 to be honest. Even if they had good writing and stories to tell they would have been hamstrung by the finances.

[@MKDumas1981]

They went to Tatooine.

[@johncarroll3677]

I watched your video and read the comment section below and was amazed at the Sorbo hate. Which prompted me to respond. First off lets back up to the cheerful 90’s. Some people may not remember but Kevin Sorbo’s start as Hercules was because of 5 tv movies staring Kevin Sorbo and Anthony Quinn. Theses 5 movies made for TV and independently distributed were highly successful. This is what propelled Kevin Sorbo into the big lights and landed him the Hercules series which lasted almost 6 years. Also which would have run further according to Sam Rami and others who worked on the show if not for Kevin’s hart issues that happened back during that time. Sorbo’s show was very successful in its time slot and demographics, it also gave Lucy Lawless her big shot with Xena. Move forward to Andromeda. Yes Kevin Sorbo was sold on the whole “Robin Hood” in space concept to get him onboard, why you may ask? Because at that time Kevin Sorbo was a action type hero, his screen clout was high (wither you or others like him or his acting style does not matter) that is why he was brought into the show. Then we move on to the show writer, sorry but Robert Hewitt Wolfe’s full idea was out there, would it have worked with say a Star Wars budget, maybe but for the action network series of shows (Fireworks Entertainment/Tribune Entertainment/BLT Productions/Global/MBR Productions Inc.) none of them had a huge budget at all. Not even close to Star Trek. Even the much liked B5 had a budget much less than Star Trek did most of the time. Did he want a change, yes, Did he say that Wolfe was a great intelligent man yes he did other cast did to at conventions etc. Still does not take away from the fact that not just Kevin but others said the same..they did not understand him or the direction he was going. Maybe he should have told them all from the start, hell maybe he should have told Kevin up front it was not “Robin Hood” in space. Whatever the reason he did it and did not share his overall idea. I say all this to say, placing the blame for the hot mess that was Andromeda on Kevin Sorbo and his acting is very shallow. For the time period Kevin Sorbo was the 90’s TV action star which again is why they got him. Also trying to project from 2019 back to 2000 before the ugghh muscle bound men hatred of today is strange as some of your commenters have done. Was he a Jock, sure but that worked again for Hercules and again is why they went after him. Should he have wanted the writer gone, that is up for debate but consider this, He had the star power to do it with again due to his career and again wither you liked his style of acting or not. All in all, I think Andromeda was doomed from the start due to low budget, a writer who had a very strange idea..more like Dune or something along those lines in scope, which they did not have the $$$ for, and competing against more well established Sci-Fi shows like Star Trek. Just my 2 cents and opinion which of course everyone has, and none are better than any other.

[@lrg162]

Great vid! As with most commenters, I'm pretty much 100% in agreement with you on this one (although I'm probably not quite as harsh a critic of Kevin Sorbo, he can, on rare occasions, show some acting ability) BTW Would love for you to do a retrospective review on Space: Above and Beyond - One of my all time favourite Sci-Fi TV shows, that was sadly canned after only one season. (Oh, and Kristen Cloke was HAF!)

[@OsirisLord]

It's fun to compare and contrast Farscape to Andromeda. They're both sci-fi shows from the end of the 90's/2000's. They're both featuring bizarre, alien societies. They both take place on a living ship. They both have one word titles. But the execution couldn't be more different. It still could have worked. Yes they built the Systems Commonwealth really early on but that doesn't mean the show didn't have to run out of story. The New Commonwealth is a military alliance made in response to a threat. How do you manage to hold it together after the threat is dealt with? This is where the show could have slowly shifted gears from something like Crusade and TNG to B5 and DS9.

[@MGSBigBoss77]

Agreed man, but we all know the show suffered because of Kevin Sorbo's massive ego trips after Robert left and season 3 onwards. Farscape worked out far better in the long run of things. Because it didn't have any egotistical actors on it, and as a franchise also spun itself onto expanded universe material like; comic books and way more novels than Andromeda ever did. Only the fans truly understand what the show could've and should've been, had it not gotten rid of; Robert Hewitt Wolfe. And it worked slowly with the characters on an ensemble show (Not the "Captain Dylan Hunt series"? which it became with Sorbo as producer) to rebuilt the System's Commonwealth over 5 seasons. Both shows could've been the new Star Trek/Star Wars equivalents next to Babylon 5 for example. Andromeda though like i said was far more flawed because of its shoddy treatment of co-creator and staff writer RHW, and Farscape clearly had more to expand upon it with; comics, novels and videogames that most causal fans are aware of. Andromeda didn't have that luck nor widely scale appeal sadly.

[@thumbwarriordx]

The combination of a great, straight-laced scifi concept with the campy, goofy, borderline-can't-even-act Kevin Sorbo is actually what I love most by far about Andromeda. I loved Sorbo in anything. Then the oughties ended and OH BOY is that no longer the case.

[@pauldeegan6652]

I agree with you that Kevin Sorbo is a very engaging actor. He is an actor in the same vein as Tom Selleck or Tony Curtis. He is watchable in just about anything. That opinion seems to be very much in the minority here however.

[@Rubbmeuk]

Even first time around, as a teenager, I thought it was crap. Made Sorbo's previous vehicle-Hercules-look like Shakespeare by comparison. No idea why this had more than one series, but they killed off Crusade before it even got going.

[@charlesking6815]

Andromeda would have been better if Dillon Hunt and his entire crew went through a temporal rift and then the next 5 seasons, revolving around trying to find out what happened to the Systems Commonwealth instead of trying to restore it. Then every episode could be a new adventure has the Andromeda travels through the ruins of the once great civilization. The Andromeda we got was all the place, lacked consistency and continuity, and suffered from poor writing 🤦‍♂️

[@OneCatholicSpeaks]

I would have run it something similar. Keep it like you said. The first season is having Dillon Hunt exploring what happened. Then have a threat come in which leads to a sense of urgency. This converts exploration to reformation.

[@mrbojangles8133]

and if Hunt had been played by someone else

[@SeaJay_Oceans]

That would have made a good full season of Andromeda, inserted right after the battle with the Nietzscheans. All they needed to do was have Trance piloting through the slip stream, trying to ' correct ' her 'mistake' (ah-hem). Along with that Trance Gemini would be toying with the whole crew, and developing her strange back story, encountering some of her worshipers from her home star system. The Andromeda A.I. would be dealing with the trauma of seeing the destroyed Commonwealth she is created to defend, her very reason for being such a powerful war ship, but helpless to stop the Long Night. Also a good chance to display the floating space cities, beautiful terraformed planets, and technological wonders and glory of the Systems commonwealth at it's peak, all then doomed and destroyed - the horrific cost of the fall of a civilization that became great, but complacent, and destroyed.

[@charlesking6815]

SeaJay Oceans your right so many missed opportunities

[@blueknight10]

Cleopatra 2525 was wondering if you've seen it if so what you thought of it ?

[@jymbo1969]

Did it suck? Short answer: yes. Long answer: not at first, but when Sorbo gained control of the show, the quality and enjoyment of the show dropped like a stone.

[@erikcarson1373]

Yes, it did suck. It had every chance of being good, but still sucked. It's like the writers went out of their way to be bad. I did gave it every chance. I thought "it just needs to find it's feet", but it was born with out feet. This show stumbled on and on and Firefly gets canceled after one abortive season. There is no justice.

[@batkinson001]

The series was great for concept and appearance but the execution and the way it was presented... It needed to be more BSG remake/Star Trek Enterprise Season 3 and not Hercules the laughable journeys.

[@NapoleChan]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that enjoyed Andromeda as a kid. I also realized later in life in wasn't great. But what did my young self know, I thought Babylon 5 was boring back then also. Thank goodness for good friends that forced me to rewatch B5 to find out it was a treasure beyond measure. Oh and when I went back to see if Farscape held up it was the one show I liked back then and I still do today. At least not all of my previous tastes were terrible.

[@robkemp598]

Kevin Sorbo became the producer and basically turned the the show into hercules in space. So screw him and his ego. I'd love to see a reboot with a talented writer and cast but I doubt there's enough interest

[@godzilladestroyscities1757]

I've met the dude and he seems really nice in person. He's also a guy that doesn't understand his audience. He's a jock. That's the simplest explanation.

[@alanhilton3611]

I didn't mind it what really bothered me was the awful tedious background music that was just constant through every episode.