Starship Lore : Glorious Heritage Class - Height of Avarice (Andromeda)

What's up Lore Masters!
Let's break down the Glorious Heritage Class from Andromeda! You'll love it..
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[@BlackXIV]

Dillen Hunt: "How could we even lose the war?? We hade 10 times more ships and 1 ship is more powerfull than 100 of theirs?!" Andromeda: "Because Gene Roddenberry wants it that way!" Dillen Hunt: "shit!"

[@alexanderbraun7887]

"Gene Roddenberry" - I am still not sure the show was truly his concept or if they just put the name on it

[@TheJarric]

on ground batles it actually made sense as nietzeans had more practical gear + genetic superiority

[@bruceh8043]

If I remember right, they took two of Gene's ideas for shows and put them together to make this one.

[@SixshotRevan]

I always felt that as they went through Gene Roddenberry's notes they simply found a hypothetical scenario he wrote about "What if the Federation collapsed?" This hypothetical then found it's way to a producer who didn't have the rights to Star Trek IP, so they created a new IP to use it. AKA Andromeda. Again, no proof. This has just been my impression of Andromeda ever since it came out with Roddenberry's name posthumously on it.

[@darwinxavier3516]

Majel Roddenberry could've also pitched the idea to FOX on Gene's behalf.

[@Immashift]

I think the moment where I realized what this ship was actually capable of doing was one episode where they were waging a planetary war, and I think someone rhetorically asked the AI what her combat capabilities were, and she replied that she could completely depopulate (lol) a planet like..... yours... in about sixteen seconds. I was like okie dokie this is what we're working with. And we're probably not counting hero noble bombs there either (reference). But realistically the ship was all over the map. Sometimes it got its butt handed to it by one ship (first season), and sometimes it took on whole fleets without a scratch. Some consistent limitations would have been nice. Though I believe the AI and its limits (human feelings, inability to FTL reliably on its own) is what made the ship more real. Harper made that damn show. His interaction with the ship was probably my favorite part.

[@Voltaic_Fire]

​@@brummyuk2151Exactly right! I was going to say much the same thing but you saved me the effort.

[@petrameyer1121]

What I like most are the ships names: Balance of Justice Andromeda Ascendant Pax Megellanic Wrath of Achilles

[@alexleblanc6364]

Rommie even mentions a medical ship called The Eightfold Path

[@Voltaic_Fire]

I like their names too, they are very reminiscent of the ship names in Halo. There is something special about longer names, they bestow more grandeur and convey the ethos and purpose of the ship. Resplendent Fervor, Long Night of Solace, Unto the Breach, Point of No Return, Ascendant Justice, Forward Unto Dawn, they are all just glorious.

[@hotboygoody]

Righteous Fist of Heaven... Just Epic.

[@unintentionallydramatic]

The Heritage Class is basically what happens when you tell SG1's science team to design a peace keeping ship from Starfleet technology. In other words: Glorious.

[@bemasaberwyn55]

So much YES

[@unintentionallydramatic]

@@bemasaberwyn55 Hahahahaha. Glad you enjoyed the comment. I still stand by it. The design has such a great mentality behind it.

[@imofage3947]

Nice pun, but no. Starfleet technology is leagues ahead of most of what this series proposes. The main places where this series has an edge is the speed (but not versatility) of their FTL drive (Slipstream enables travel among 3 galaxies, but only along pre-established routes with predictable entry and exit points), automation, androids, and AI. Andromeda's primary armament are advanced kinetic weapons abusing their AG tech. Essentially a high-tech version of throwing a big rock. A far cry from Starfleet's phasers and photon torpedoes. Her defensive systems Composite armor, point defense lasers, and defensive kinetic missiles. A far cry from Starfleet's deflector shields.

[@HoLeeFoc]

​@@imofage3947 Did Starfleet or any of the ST empires have anything close to nova bombs?

[@NaatClark]

@@HoLeeFoc Sort of. A trilithium missile can make a star explode and folks know about them but no one uses them. Same reason they don't just destroy planets(pre-NuTrek era) even tho most single starships probably could; It's just wasteful.

[@Gigas0101]

I think that we should all torture the hell out of Lore I MEAN it would be informative and entertaining to get a full breakdown on the usage and exact specifications of every weapon type on the Glorious Heritage class.

[@LoreReloaded]

.... i hate you :p

[@Eatmydbzballs]

@@LoreReloaded Oh we hate you more XD

[@Wraithlord77]

that or a full run down of the Sensors , at the very least :)

[@slevinchannel7589]

@@LoreReloaded EXPLAIN THE SENSORS AND WEAPONS! Otherwise you're just listing meaningless words! Why not even talk in Chinese Backwards when you're at it??

[@avragetrinidadian3787]

u forgot to mention that the Andromeda had an affair with the Voyager. this resulted in the birth of their lovechild named Orville

[@tophatminion.7558]

Thanks! know I carnt not see that!

[@JaredLS10]

All I can picture is a pregnant Voyager giving birth to a baby Orville

[@primezero86]

@Ron Lewenberg it's how they met. (lucky bastard lol) and he's y she did a few episodes on stargate

[@avragetrinidadian3787]

Wow

[@primezero86]

@Ron Lewenberg yea I sore a stargate panel with Chris Michael and lexa and she was taking the pi*s about the guys bromance as they best mates in rl as well and she went on to explain how they met with Michaels appearance on Andromeda.

[@XxZekeKnightxX]

Oh yes, Andromeda! All my favorite sci-fi shows talked about in one place! Thank you!

[@brokeneyes6615]

It’s also captain by one herculean of a man, so manly in fact he looked at kirk’s lady record and beat it by making passionate love literally to a black hole for a thousand years and left it so completely satisfied that it devoted entire episode two going out and finding him! He then proceeded to make captain Picard look bad by resurrecting an entire galactic government one planet at a time all the while fighting the devil. After that he showed up Cisco by not only revealing that he’s actually a alien centaur god, but discovering the entire lost capital solar system of the commonwealth in epic what the fuckety!

[@TentaclePentacle]

Captain Hunt kissed more women than kirk every did. He literally kissed a new woman each episode without exception.

[@coreymicallef365]

"He then proceeded to make captain Picard look bad by resurrecting an entire -galactic- *_multigalactic_* government one planet at a time" FTFY, the Systems Commonwealth comprised at least 5 Galaxies if memory serves (Andromeda, Milky Way, Triangulum and the 2 Magellanic Clouds and likely several other small galaxies in the Local Group)

[@brokeneyes6615]

In an epic Campaign style fight between Captain Hunt and Chuck Norris’s... it would be a tie!

[@AC-gb7do]

TentaclePentacle No, he was not “kissing” a woman each episode. It’s a myth. In the 79 episodes of Star Trek in which he appeared, Captain Kirk kissed a woman in just 19 of those episodes (described below). So, if you watch an episode of Star Trek, there is just a 1 in 4 chance you will see Kirk simply kiss a woman. Of those 19, six occur against his will. One occurs while he has amnesia. Five are “tactical” kisses. Five occur after Kirk falls in love with a woman. Only one plays as being done simply for physical pleasure. And of those 19 incidents, only three appear to have gone all the way to sex (Deela, Drusilla, and Miramanee). Two of those could be called casual affairs. Two casual affairs during a five year mission hardly qualifies him as “a man who engages in numerous casual sexual affairs with women.” Heck, in the same number of episodes, Spock had sex twice. www.quora.com/Was-Captain-Kirk-the-womanizer-that-he-was-later-portrayed-through-satire-to-be

[@chrisbingley]

@@coreymicallef365 In the show it's three galaxies. They often make reference to ".....in three galaxies". Those being Milky Way, Triangulum and Andromeda.

[@peccatumDei]

Now you've done it. Since you've chosen to talk about the Glorious Heritage Class, you had better talk about the Siege Perilous Class as well.

[@Snapper314]

Romie sure is beautiful. And the ship Andromeda isn't half bad either.

[@alanmike6883]

Even to this day I had a crush on Lexa doig

[@JeanLucCaptain]

THE ANDROMEDA IS A BEAUTIFUL HOLGRAM/AI/FEMME FATAL/SUPER BATTLESHIP/LADY AND WE LOVE HER!!

[@alanmike6883]

So say we all 😊

[@JeanLucCaptain]

Caprica 6 v Romie!

[@alanmike6883]

Difficult. You see I did like the remastered battlestar Galactica despite its flaws just like the original even when campy. The only thing I hated about the original was the origin of the Cylons. You think a EMPIRE of robots would have more than enough to destroy the big g. The new one was more dark and felt more desperate. But I'm gonna have to say rommie 😊

[@MrPingn]

I think the Nietzcheans won because they started out using subterfuge. Remember they had carefully chosen operatives to sabotage battles. That's why Captain Hunt ended up fighting and killing his old friend.

[@MtSpider]

Also, they were part of the Commonwealth. That's a massive tactical advantage.

[@Krahazik]

And if I recall, starting out, the Commonwealth fleets were spread out. So ambush tactics, and sabotage in the early days to thin things out. Just look at the ambush that nailed the Andromeda. She's a bad-ass ship be even she has her limits.

[@cgi2002]

@@Krahazik the Commonwealth fleets which weren't as large as you'd think (side effect of too much peace) were as you said, very spread out. The opening strikes came in multiple approaches, 1st large sections of the fleet were drawn into ambushes, during which they were sabotaged from within by their own Nietzchean crewmembers. Some ships outright taken and turned against their allies causing confusion within the fleets and some straight up destroyed or rendered unable to defend themselves. Arguably this could amount to anywere between a quater and 3 quaters of the fleet been lost in the opening days of the war.

[@james27617]

The Heritage class is kind of what the Galaxy glass should have been yes it's a gorgeous ship internally and externally but don't fuk with it whereas the Galaxy class is the definition of a glass Cannon until the Dominion War variants rolled out 🤔

[@dragonknightleader1]

Andromeda was more worthy of the name Enterprise than the Enterprise. ANY of them. It basically was an aircraft carrier in space.

[@thefirstprimariscatosicari6870]

@@dragonknightleader1 The first Enterprise had nothing to do with aircraft carriers. Infact it was a very modest anti-piracy ship for its time.

[@FakeJeep]

Ya... I stared in disbelief as the most powerful ship in the Federation fleet got torn to shreds by a "bit" of incoming fire. "Well I guess it's that big of a target then?"

[@hitandruncommentor]

To be fair to trek, I feel like Babylon 5 and andromeda are the only sci fi shows that has an idea of what a war ship should be. None of this 10 kilometers with only 100-500 turbo lasers ala Star Wars or 20 phasers on trek

[@ML-yn9yu]

@@hitandruncommentor well considering the commonwealths strategy was to carpet-bomb space.

[@michaeld.uchiha9084]

This ship has the greatest Plot Armor in the history of movie and series space battles.

[@kentlindal5422]

Exactly. Even a black hole couldn't Merc this thing

[@bronzedivision]

To be fair the show does show lots of High Guard derelicts surviving on their own some with nearly as much damage as the Andromeda takes. And several times the ship is totally trashed and has to fall back on it's on-board factories and repair bays for a few weeks. So it's not utterly above average, the System Commonwealth just had tech that was that savage.

[@chrisbingley]

This ship regularly takes more of a beating than the Enterprise ever did.

[@nickm9102]

@@bronzedivision you missed the High Guard graveyard the Nietzscheans assembled in the Tartarus System. I think 2-3 dozen ships imprisioned in a resourceless system had they all agreed to join Andromeda they would have had more than a good start to a new Commonwealth.

[@Krahazik]

@@chrisbingley Well she was specifically designed to go looking for a fight, to take a beating and dish one out in return.

[@starsilverinfinity]

How many of you waited for the premier of this beaut like I did?

[@LoreReloaded]

#heroeswaited ... #heroes

[@FakeJeep]

Literally years... since a certain other channel has ignored my requests for years ;_;

[@vic5015]

one of these sorts of channels *needs* to do an entire episode just on Romie herself (the AI, not the ship)

[@TheRanblingjohnny]

God I love me some Andromeda... At least the first two and a half seasons. As for the ship the running gag of the first two seasons (the good seasons.) is that it always running on fumes or outright broken.

[@Grayvorn]

I like to think only the first two seasons exist.

[@the1aboveall367]

Always broken and no supplies

[@lorzon]

@@the1aboveall367 And still the baddest bitch in the three galaxies one on one.

[@the1aboveall367]

@@lorzon No doubt believe it or not one my favorite shows ever still watch all seasons at least once a year if not 5 times 😂

[@gxxlee123]

Andromeda was a great ship and show for the 1 1/2 seasons that the writers and directors worked together. Then they had that damn fallout and it becoming all Kevin Sorbo Jerkules in space. With one redeeming point in the 4th season with Trance being revealed. Honestly, I would like to see the Andromeda design return in an actual series with real writers. They could do without the rebuilding of the Commonwealth or what not and the ships FTL slipstream thing. Just have the design back.

[@rlj151]

Agreed. Then it turned into which group wants to destroy the other groups so that they can be the group to stand up to the big bad. And the whole Paladin storyline was garbage as was the final season.

[@jamesburke3413]

Great points. Andromeda (like Earth Final Conflict) started out with so much potential (in the first two seasons at least) but just got flushed down the toilet. It was a real shame. Seeing Lore Reloaded cover the series (and doing great job, too) reminds me how cool it was (and could've continued to be if the people behind the scenes hadn't abandoned consistency, character development, and story arcs just so they could crank out enough episodes so they could put the show in syndication) . Once again, great points. Thanks for making them.

[@trajan74]

I rewatched the series recently and it pisses me the fuck off how many plot points went nowhere. Cyborg society on par with the Andromeda? One off story. Captured Magog swarm ship? Never referred to again. Engine of Creation - a universal reset button is forgotten after a forgettable one off episode. Here's an idea how about after restarting the Commonwealth go look for the rest of this device. All poor Harper does in 3-4 is build one off weapons to stop the Magog. Maybe a device that can wish them out of existence would be a good thing. Corporate empires subverting the Commonwealth? One episode and they're replaced with evil librarians. I guess as a Christian conservative the former made Sorbo feel icky. And the crew slowly become caricatures of themselves. Especially Harper. Who I liked at first. We know from episode 2 the Magog had established beachheads in our galaxies so why weren't our heroes out destroying them? This story had some potential for action, drama, and discovery and they pisses away for Jerkules.

[@NotContinuum]

The showrunner was basically kicked out because the people in charge felt the show was too heavy on series spanning arcs. It then became episodic. If you want to see how things should have gone, go look up "Coda" by Robert Hewitt Wolfe. That's how he intended things to end.

[@dreamingflurry2729]

Hm...a reboot without the actual story? Sorry, nope! Hell, I would prefer it being only about rebuilding the commonwealth (Hell, I'd want a Dyllan Hunt who has SEEN (as in: Been there!) during the Fall (meaning he fought in the War and was frozen at the very end, possibly with an even stronger ship (prototype, last ditch effort...hell, with an actual battlegroup at best because then we'd have more commonwealth commanders who would work together to bring the commonwealth back, but who might not agree on the how ("Just use our Nova-Bombs to show them that we still exist!" - that could be the oppinion of a Commander like Rhade!)) I frankly hated all this avatar of a sun (sorry Trance, but you were next to useless at first and then suddenly badass and in the end you are a nearly immortal avatar of a star? Sorry, but no! Go away, bad idea!) and god-like-beings (the Spirit of the Abyss and even whatever Dyllan Hunt supposedly is)...frankly this (stuff like that!) is IMHO what is ruining science fiction these days! Look at new Battlestar Galactica and their "God did it" cop out because they couldn't write a great ending or "We have to go back to the island" bullshit in Lost...can't we have some straight up military science fiction (with some politics and spy-stuff sub-plots) for once? :( ps: The first Season (or even the first two seasons!) should be during the Fall (so Dyllan gets beaten down more and more - seriously, his "We don't use Nova-Weapons, not even against our worst enemy!" is pissing me off and someone who has seen the war, has seen people die, become enslaved etc. would never say that! Such a person would probably be for using Nova-Weapons, because you only have to use them once or twice, to show that you are willing and to get the opposition to the negotiating table!) and the final episode of that part of the show should be Dyllan taking command of an experimental new ship and attached battle group, maybe sent on a strike deep into enemy territory (and then they get time-locked...not at the start of the war! Idealism is nice, but not when it is constantly costing you and is hampering you - like fighting with one armed tied behind your back!)

[@SHADOSTRYKR]

Wasn't the joke it was a ship for 4000 people but had like 8 crew members?

[@TentaclePentacle]

It actually doesn't even need any crew. The ship runs itself.

[@JaredLS10]

@@TentaclePentacle Unless you need to go to slipstream

[@TentaclePentacle]

@Jared Shaw a brain in a jar will do.

[@darwinxavier3516]

Drones, repair bots, and other AIs can handle the majority of the maintenance, diagnostics, and other mundane tasks that would normally be done by a small army of engineers in Starfleet.

[@artembentsionov]

TentaclePentacle Or map out slipstream, like they tried to do once

[@Tamari001]

This is the kind of show that would have benefited greatly from the GoT-era of production. I normally hate remakes, but I'd be on board for a quality remake of Andromeda. As to why the SC lost? A big reason was headhunting the senior officers. Remember, Captain Hercules was actually gunned down like a chump in a handful of seconds by his XO. That happened a lot to Commonwealth commanders, and we saw how the AI's would just "whatever" in reaction. If not for the old standby trope Things Suck Horribly, Herc's XO wouldn't have changed the outcome and let him live.

[@dragonknightleader1]

There was a whole episode where Radhe succeeded in killing Hunt. His leadership was so bad that he had to go back in time to shoot his past self so he can fail to assassinate Hunt.

[@vojtechjehlicka7000]

@@dragonknightleader1 It wasn't really bad at all, just Dylan's plot armour.

[@user-ut9ln4vd5m]

@@dragonknightleader1 That was perhaps the best episode of the entire series, far superior than the last two seasons combined. And about the AI's _just "whatever" in reaction_ to the captains & some crew getting killed - they would have been disabled & blind for the fight, waking up to see some crew still alive, why wouldn't they still follow the surviving crew's orders?

[@captgeesh5163]

Funny you say that, I have always thought that if i ever win a HUGE lottery, i would hire robert wolfe to Rewrite and direct (for me personally) the final 3 seasons of the show. Doesnt have to be the same cast. I just want the story. Loved the show.

[@nickm9102]

@@dragonknightleader1 Actually his leadership was dead on, making the same decisions as Dylan did but he had Deminishing returns because he was Nietzschean so he choose to go back in time and force a different outcome. Andromeda wouldn't change anything in the Nietzschean war but by sacrificing himself Rhade forced hunt into the future timeline where he could possibly reverse the results of the Nietzschean war.

[@jamesfry8983]

I think one of the best weapons they had on board was harpers genius brain

[@raven4k998]

hey that was the best weapon they had cause hunt was fucking useless Harper had to pull rabbit's out of his ass as hunt was a fucking walking mindless muscle so Harper had to have the brains to save the day

[@complex314i]

There is one thing about Andromeda I always loved: PSL (% of the speed of light) is the most natural way to measure velocity in space.

[@flood256]

actually defensive kinetic kill does make sense since kinetic kill refers to the fact that is uses kinetic energy rather then explosives to do damage so a defensive kinetic kill missile is basically a fancy way of saying "a guided rocket propelled chunk of metal that's shot at an incoming missile"

[@terrysimmons8657]

Ever done Liberator from Blake's 7?

[@JanneRanta]

Damn, now I have to rewatch andromeda, xena and hercules.

[@temporaneo617]

Since andromeda was created by geene roddenberry....... THEY LOST BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE GELATO MACHINES

[@bradwolf07]

Who doesn't love to have more weapons than Gawd himself?

[@TentaclePentacle]

You neglected to mention the ship doesn't have any shields, it has battleblades as a defensive system that deploys like a fan around the ship when in combat. The battleblades is design to block projectile weapons, while the ship uses anti gravity fields to stop energy weapons. The ship also have very little armor, it operates on the doctrine that it allows projectiles to pass through the hall so it doesn't explode inside the hall. The hall of the ship has a mesh design that leaves large spaces within the decks. So when something does explode within the ship it does very little damage. Plus it has a layer defenses with point defense lasers and defense drones.

[@Sherool]

And swarms of nanomachines to patch itself up during and after battle. Just park near and asteroid or other source of raw material for a while and it can fully repair and fabricate new missiles to replace expended ammunition without needing to return to port.

[@TheEmeraldMenOfficial]

*hull

[@marianpazdzioch6632]

Which is completely retarded, since gravity fields work best on something that has significant mass - like missiles or projectiles, while solid armor is more effective agains energy light mass or massless particles and waves used by energy weapons.

[@ealan3694]

Energy weapons actually aren't really a thing in Andromeda. The closet you get is Point Defense Lasers that the ship uses to defend itself from incoming ordinance and fighters that get close, and they're pretty short range. Or the AP Cannons, which basically are cannons that lob antimatter at their targets. The one thing the Systems Commonwealth was probably undeniable masters at in Sci-Fi was Gravity generation and manipulation, it's used in everything from ship acceleration, to defense, to weapons. Andromeda has an AG Deflection envelope, that it could generate that was somewhat like a shield. The battle blades and the mono-molecular mesh strung between the blades were designed to catch and detonate incoming weapons fire, while the AG deflection envelope was designed to catch the blast waves of those detonations and dampen them so as to not damage the main body of the ship, and possibly deflect those warheads that make it through. And the older specification sources alluded to the 6 Radiating Counter Measure Generators being a lot more than ECM generators, they were actually AG/G generators that were used to project long range gravity fields that were designed to sweep and deflect incoming projectiles, knocking them off target. Probably works on AP cannon fire to some extent, but AP Cannons are shorter range weapons I think, so not as much time to deflect those. Then again, the weapons ranges in Andromeda are literally astronomical. At least the early episodes depicted it in that ship-to-ship combat was spread out across entire star systems.

[@MrMawnster]

It has armor. Fullerene mesh plates. Plasma shield generators over that along with PDL. Smh at you a saying in Tyrs voice "Amateur "

[@cernstormrunner7263]

3:52 It's been a while since I watched the show but I seem to recall there were a lot of Nietchians in the High Guard, and they sabotaged / took over a good bunch of High Guard ships. Dylan's original XO was one of these.

[@aquariandawn4750]

Good example of what can happen when you give your enemy positions of power within your own government and military.

[@pgwchaos]

"Which is an Inverse synthetic-aperture, cause lets just make up names", There is a type of Radar imaging called "Inverse synthetic-aperture radar" it is used on maritime patrol aircraft. It does make sense for a ship that used for exploring to have a ton of sensors (the Mars rover Curiosity has a ton of them). Love the videos :D

[@Zachomara]

Say what you will about the Andromeda, but the fact that they pay attention to sensors using drones is an awesome attention to detail in how to detect enemy ships light minutes out and be able to react in time. That's probably why it was loaded with so many sensors. Also, Lexa Doig- I mean Andromeda had to be approachable. Especially when she was talking to crew members in the shower O.o

[@AmurTiger]

What's a bit funny about it is that the sensor names are actually pretty grounded, I knew synthetic aperture were a thing and apparently inverse synthetic aperture is also a thing, though it's understandably unfamiliar to most sci fi stuff as it's a fairly niche bit of modern military knowledge.

[@Zachomara]

Yeah, that's one thing I absolutely loved about the show, since I'm a science nerd and never realized it when I first watched it. I watched it again recently and realized half the stuff they talk about was realistic sensor knowledge. Someone who actually knew what they were doing made the sensor suite on Andromeda.

[@FakeJeep]

Gene Rodenberry had some pretty grounded things in most of his work.

[@vic5015]

@@AmurTiger yep. ISAR ( *inverse* synthetic aperture array radar) systems exist *right now* too. With all of the sensors she had, Romie would have made one hell of a radar picket/early warning (AWACS-type) ship.

[@user-ut9ln4vd5m]

It could've been the most "realistic" sci-fi universe, there was none of that _seeing things light years away or communicating through magic subspace_ nonsense, or even _invisible force shields_ just the weird slipstream to travel to another galaxy in a few minutes, but the rest was grounded. If something appears (or blows up) on the other side of a system, it's already happened 10 minutes ago before you even notice it.

[@allmybasketsinoneegg]

When they first brought the Andromeda AI online she were free to choose her own apperance. She wasn't supposed to be vain, but in one of the episodes she admits generating multiple apperances (think 52 or something), before she found one she liked.

[@alexleblanc6364]

It was in the thousands

[@deinekes9]

Give the show it's due credit, both good and bad. For me, the main selling point was its wonderful mixture of real science smaller stuff (such as gauss-based force lances, drones, anti-proton cannons, and relativistic kinetic missiles) and the "screw it, let's go for broke" bit for larger stuff like the nova bombs, the tesseract, and the magog world ship. Sci-fi is all about know what to explain and what not to explain. For all the travesty that was the later seasons, they got that perfect. Compare that to star trek where nothing is every really grounded in real science.... But don't get me wrong. I love both franchises.

[@LoreReloaded]

I feel like I did?

[@deinekes9]

@@LoreReloadedYes, you did. Sorry, just putting out my own apologia to people who dump on the show (even if it does deserve some of it). I should have made that clearer.

[@thegman1985]

How could the Systems Commonwealth lose to a smaller force? A number of factors could contribute to it: 1)The Systems Commonwealth seriously underestimated the opposition. They more than likely fought with one hand behind their backs until it was way too late to do something. 2)The High Guard(the SC Navy) was filled with incompetent officers. In the pilot episode they pretty much were able to jump one ship after another using the same tactic. 3)The Nietzschean got really lucky early on when they killed the Empress and pretty much forced the entire capital of the System Commonwealth to disappear. That would have been a morale blow and probably threw the military in further disarray early on. 4)The Nietzschean's don't really get an outright victory regardless. When the High Guard does finally take the threat seriously they're able to stop invasion attempts of the Than(insect like race) homeworld, although they lose Earth and even then its stated the Prides took heavy losses. Then you have the whole temporal travel back in time The Final Countdown like episode in Season 1 where they wipe out the vast majority of a joint fleet. 5)You can't discount other hostile powers aiding the Nietzschean cause. In later seasons we see an alien power that was very hostile to the System Commonwealth. Start compounding all of this and you can make a credible case for why the System Commonwealth lost. Its a damn shame this show had a lot of potential behind it and the lore in the first season was pretty awesome for world building aspect.

[@TheJarric]

sabotours and early ambush got 60% disabled asuming with out central leadership it was easier for n to mop up survivors by getting more ships in area (wolf pack) then mogogs started raiding aliens decreed indepensense at least one common wealth became warlord with his own sector in the end only fanatics like templars were left

[@chrisbingley]

The Nietzscheans being aided by The Abyss is why the Commonwealth fell. It's one of those, watch the series the whole way through and it makes sense sort of things.

[@TheJarric]

@@chrisbingley it was implied like they had beka and wayist converted by radical isotopes

[@vishnu79]

The Fall of the Systems Commonwealth is very like the Fall of Rome as well. The Legions were still the best of the best when Rome fell, but between the treachery of some of the Auxilia (Goths especially), political discord, and unrest among some of the core provinces and even in Rome itself, the whole thing just sort of imploded. There was also other factors, but the parallels are there and I think Roddenberry intended for that to be so.

[@TheJarric]

ou and commonwealth capital was cut off from slipstream and highest ranking leader was assasinated by early moves by neatzeans so for highguard it was like mongol invasion more than decline like rome

[@ivanpetrov5255]

This is my favorite sci-fi ship ever. I love the design and color scheme. It's a very distinct ship you can recognise easily. It's been a while since I've seen the show, but it would be great to see Andromeda at full power.

[@michaelkenny7314]

She’s a missile boat the two anti proton cannon are there to kill anything that managed to survived the a missile/bullet hell that would make a Japanese game designer prostrate and scream we are not worthy

[@FakeJeep]

LOL

[@redshirt5126]

She's more like a bunch of missiles with a ship attached to it.

[@michaelkenny7314]

Jon Broschat you forgot about the onboard fabricators. All she needs to nom on a few asteroids and her missile stocks will be refilled and any battle damaged would be repaired.

[@chrisbingley]

"That was rude. Romie, arm missile tubes 1 through 200. Fire!"

[@EngelDerVerdammnis]

You guys forgot about the Wrath of Achilles class which is even more ridiculously powerfull.

[@aurorathekitty7854]

This show was criminally underrated.

[@barrybend7189]

Fun fact Andromeda was made out of leftover notes from star trek.

[@LoreReloaded]

trufacts

[@paladinboyd1228]

Barry Bend, So does that mean someone suggested the federation should have giant killer robots?

[@barrybend7189]

@@paladinboyd1228 m5 computer.

[@paladinboyd1228]

Barry Bend, Ah, I was kinda hoping it was a idea for the dominion war that got scrapped. It would have explain why the federation survived when dealing with their less than friendly neighbours. (Before we knew of section 31)

[@barrybend7189]

@@paladinboyd1228 well the show is called "Gene Rodenbary's Andromeda" not CBS' Andromeda.

[@Silverdeamon92]

Thank you so much for finally doing this ship. Keep up the good work.

[@AdmiralBlackstar]

Height of Avarice would actually be a good name to fit in with the over-the-top names the commonwealth loved.

[@HellsRaven4444]

Still one of my favourite ship designs ever. Not to mention that its a Missile boat as a hero ship. And the fact that it uses drones. There are just so few Sci-fi shows in which the MC side is the one using a ton of missiles and drones as their main weapons. Usually its the enemies that use those weapons.

[@hiddentrailvideo6992]

You’re more belligerent lately, Lore. I approve.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

YES, GIVE IN TO THE BLEEEP SIDE!

[@KertaDrake]

Any series that out-jargons Star Trek deserves it.

[@MrMduchesne23]

This show was ok. Lexa Doig added a lot to the plot. They did a story about a ship made flesh falling in love and yes it did end badly for everyone. It was at the height of the Canadian Sci-Fi filming when a bunch of this was in Vancouver. Man this takes me back. Thanks

[@russellsnare1379]

I think most of the Systems Commonwealth (or the Old Systems Commonwealth) Ships were all over designed battleships. Would love to find more ship lore from this series as they had some over complicated Ship designs and the force lance can't forget it as it was the multi tool weapon of sci-fi.

[@kirkbolas4985]

I recall Captain Hunt threatening some bad actor that was planet side that the Andromeda had a bunch of missiles with 20 megaton yield warheads each and if provoked, the plant surface would be transformed into molten rock. Not sure which missile this was but it got the cooperation that Hunt required.

[@Kalebfenoir]

If I had to choose between an ST class of equivalent power/size/whatever... I'm still choosing the Glorious Heritage. Everything about its design, the fact that it had semi-autonomous repair bots EVERYWHERE, an assload of varied weapons because even though it was a Cruiser it was technically a carrier too, and had its own internal defense systems... I love it all. That and the fact that for its mass, because of how the engines work, it actually had the 'weight' of something like 5kg. So you could technically push it with a dude in a wheelbarrow if you had to. Which they used to great effect in the show by having that dinky tug pull it around sometimes. Lol.

[@MtSpider]

You hit the nail right on the head, numbers matter and the neechian's outnumbered everyone else in the Commonwealth when it came to ready battle power(ships and soldiers). They were also an adamant part of the Commonwealth so any technology superiority that 1 could infer from Andromeda would have been present throughout the entire nichian fleet. Not to mention the incredibly potent effect of a surprise attack coming from the inside. There's a reason a Coup D'état has a higher chance of success than a city being sieged

[@MtSpider]

And before anyone goes off about how after Andromeda was stuck for 300 years in the black hole event horizon she has better weapons than everyone, it is already stated in the story that technology digressed over time rather than progressed. Weird.... but still cannon

[@26th_Primarch]

A human form for the ship's AI to be approachable? Hi Joker!

[@fbi805]

I love the ship design and to be perfectly honest it’s one design that can be built to actually function in space. The only issue I have with the design is that it doesn’t have enough point defense weapons or anti-fighter weapons. For the size of the ship she should have had close to 200 anti-fighter and anti-missile hull mounted weapons

[@jamespayne5638]

Please keep doing what you do your rants keep me laughing and make my day better

[@admiraltiberius1989]

I love all the different acrynoms and what not for the weapons and sensor systems. Its how things are in the real world militaries.

[@lokai7914]

Great effort. It was marvellous to see the Andromeda again. Sadly, they wanted so much potential with this show. And you're right, the Neichians should never have been able to win without vast superiority in numbers... which they should never have been able to create secretly

[@chrisbingley]

You're carrying Nova bombs? The Andromeda is a Highguard ship of the line, she has a wide variety of combat capabilities. You're carrying NOVA bombs!

[@RetroRobotRadio]

One reason why the ship has so many missiles and point defense lasers is it has no shields. They shoot anything that comes at them! What makes the Andromeda different from Star Trek is it has no Shields, no tractor beam, no transporter!

[@highlandoutsider]

I gotta say, I fracking love how you managed to nail the perfect blend of nerd rage and humour.

[@johnnafunkhouser5999]

Thanks for Andromeda vid. Currently binge watching season 2 of five!

[@petersage5157]

From the title of this video and knowing the names of other Alliance ships and ship classes (e.g. ships named Pax Magellanic, Balance of Judgement, Reflection of Hope; ship classes Siege Perilous, Eternal Vigilance), I expected this to be about one of Rommie's sister ships. I think the artists were just trying to outdo the style of Gene's previous franchise; I also assumed the styling of the outer hull was to help navigate the Slipstream.

[@jffxex1980]

Bottom line: this ship is gorgeous from the tip of her nose to her tail. One thing that sets her apart from other sci fi ships is that she is manned by an autonomous AI that if and when her crew is down, the ship itself can keep on fighting. She has managed to survived a planetary buster point singularity ripping through her hull, stood on her own against an armada, went toe to toe with a planetary ship, survived a supernova explosion, sat on the surface of the sun indefinitely but it was killing her crew….AA is well known for electronic warfare and countermeasures. Rather than putting up with energy and kinetic weapons, she is built on defense on defense. Her hull is designed specifically to “camouflage” amongst the background of space and her sleek shape is designed to evade active sensors. Second, she deploys electronic counter measures to throw herself off from targeting. If that doesn’t work, she will try to short circuit kinetic weapons with her own electronic measures, if that doesn’t work, she will deploy defensive missiles and missiles that got through are further shot down by her point defense lasers. She has 40 electromagnetic launchers, able to spit out 8 missiles per second from each tube, totaling at 19,200 fist sized offensive missiles launching at the speed of 95 percent of light speed. Even if the ship has managed to put up their shield, the amount of 19,200 fist size missiles traveling at 95 PSL will drain its shield fast. To make it worst, her missiles travel in light years. She can hit you from the distance of earth to Mars if she wanted to. She also has extended variants with multiple kill vehicles meaning that her missiles have missiles. She also has 12 AP cannons which is the equivalent of phasers in the Andromedaverse. Her ECW are so good that it’s able to deflect EM waves in all frequencies even beaming on board unless she lowers her ECW. Now, to make it worse, as big as she is, she is extremely extremely fast and agile for her size. She was able to do a 180 and catch up to her slip fighter that was light minutes away from her outrun a BigBang, and literally make the white star look like a Toyota Corolla in terms of speed and agility. The downfall for her is that she doesn’t have shielding. She relies on preventing damage beforehand with her electronic countermeasures, init defense lasers and defensive missiles to hit incoming missiles and her hull is made of ablative armor; able to withstand a point singularity right through her.

[@nixboox]

The Commonwealth fell not from a lack of ship superiority but because it rotted from the inside out. The ships weren't much help when the fighting was actually going on inside the ship itself - which is what we see in the pilot episode and subsequent flashbacks. Once the Commonwealth ships were under Nietzschean control the war ended very quickly.

[@lucofparis4819]

Excellent breakdown. You could have talked about the grappling hooks, the hyperdrive like engines, and so on. But I think peeps got the idea: Mary Sue Ship. In regards to the Andromeda's first defeat, let's say there was some odds against her: Surprise attack Overwhelming force (hard to take out 10,000 ships in no time) Reluctant Captain (He could have said fuck you all and supernova the whole system) Lesser training for the Guard Better training for the Nietscheans Captain freaking out and ordering abandon ship for some reason And, you know, a freaking traitor (the second in command!).

[@That80sGuy1972]

The Nietzschean uprising involved a lot of well-timed clever tricks and mutinies too. Overwhelming numbers can help its own downfall when sabotage can assist its implosion. They weren't mere bad^sses, they were tactical thinkers to the extreme. If they started an attack as a unified group, they already won... the fight is just the plan working itself out.

[@TheCyberloki]

Always liked the Andromeda its a good blend in between utility and highly advanced technology. The Ai is awesome and the way it was depicted would still seem advanced. And the way Andromeda was depicted using Drones and basically being its own little flotilla just seems the natural evolution of such a ship. I would like to see a remake with modern effects. Also they thought on many things other scifi shows miss and i always complain about for example a personal sidearm which shocks unauthorized users. Why the hell ST phasers don't have that? The battlelance is also hands down one of if not my favorite Scifi weapon. It is just damn multi functional.

[@legowoshi]

*Jean-Luc Picard has left the server*

[@seawind930]

Oh yeah, I remember this series. This was Hercules in SPACE!!!!

[@grayscribe1342]

"A hero from another time." I don't know why, but that still cracks me up.

[@oliverewarthopkins7818]

"Some kind of Greek God"

[@Eyes-of-Horus]

When the series started Kevin Sorbo said that he didn't want a "Hercules in space," but that is what it turned out to be.

[@artembentsionov]

Sorbo was the one who pushed for more focus on his character, got Tyr to be kicked off the ship when that character got too popular

[@johnathanbutler7718]

with the fall of the Commonwealth you have to remember the sabotage and surprise factor. the Niechieans were also officer aboard many ships in the high guard. and also I believe that the Neachieans were more advance during the time of the fall and regressed like the rest of the known world after the civil war and fall

[@gergister]

Beka Valentine: Authorization code: "shut up and do what I tell you." Maru Computer - Authorization confirmed. Some of these make me nostalgic.

[@supsup335]

I love the GH-Class Heavy Cruiser. Can "Level a Plant in 5 minutes" _Rommi

[@supsup335]

Planet

[@JaredLS10]

@@supsup335 how long to level a plant though?

[@supsup335]

No more than a few seconds to an hour, depending on the plant and the tools, i recon.

[@FakeJeep]

Well it did blow up a planet in a manner of seconds in one episode.

[@lamehick7511]

Weren't Nova bombs meant to make a systems sun go supercritical, leveling the whole sector?

[@TomMcD71]

That was a WAY overpowered ship with weapons for EVERYTHING plus DAMN that AI was WOAH

[@jannegrey593]

If It was ST vessel I would say that it was impossible since it looked like cooperation between Andorians and Vulcans.

[@sixwingproductions]

i would not be surprised that in light of the fact that the niechians maid up a significant number of the common wealths infantry and other highguard positions that they probably commandeered a significant amount of high guard warships to help in the war.

[@IAmTheAce5]

Please don’t ever stop keeping it a hundred ;)

[@FreeThePorgs]

"The biggest baddest ship in the known world's!!!!!"(in reference to the Andromeda) _harper

[@ElzariusUnity]

Maggog world ship?

[@FreeThePorgs]

@@ElzariusUnity funny....I hope....are you serious????

[@robertschmidt4815]

You did my favorite series justify thank you for it better your star trek counter part series on KZbin

[@time391]

The Nietzscheans got really lucky, they surprised the Commonwealth forces, were able to perform an assassination of the head of State (the Vedran Empress was murdered), and the homeworld of Tarn Vedra was cut off from slip stream by an evil Cosmic being, who seemed to be proto Thanos :P My theory is that The Commonwealth was facing principally one real enemy, The Abyss, too powerful to defeat with ships, who could manipulate probabilities to keep them losing. No Civilization can be that unlucky that quickly. It would be like the Federation having to fight a Civil War being controlled by Q, there's no winning in that scenario. Andromeda could only do what it did, because luck (or cosmic evil magic) was not working against them with Trance around manipulating the crew's decisions.

[@doug22746]

You want weapons and overkill do the Siege Perilous Class dsx attack cruiser! That should make this class look like a monk ship.

[@CynicalPole]

Haven't seen the episode yet and you already made my day. Thank you.

[@FreeOfFantasy]

I loved that Andromeda had internal defenses and big ass combat robots for ground combat and not going into battle with the command crew without any armor or shields like certain other series. Even if the animations where very early 2000s video game a lot of series, even way older ones did that better.

[@BagoPorkRinds]

Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee were the given names to the combat robots by Rommie.

[@chrisedmund335]

Andromeda the series that was made out of TWO of Mr. Roddenberrys ideas, one was about a crew and ship exploring the universe and another where a Nasa scientist named Dylan Hunt was struck by a fusion generator (the fusion generator I think is right) and he'd wake up 50-200 years later and rebuild civiliantion it was Kevin Sorbo that suggested merging the two and it worked the ship for a long time was going to be the Pheniox Accendant, said by Kevin Sorbo during interviews in '99

[@Tigershark_3082]

Oh man. That ship has all the sensors...

[@LoreReloaded]

RIGHT!?

[@thunderchild1897]

Thank you for this, Andromeda is one of my favorite sci-fi series, mostly for one reason, the basic lore explains why they can't just FTL run away anytime things aren't going their way. (you have to be in a certain spot in system to jump to another, and also the Troperiffic the FTL magic is more fragile than grandma's china collection)

[@cellulanus]

The point of how the Commonwealth falls is that it doesn't matter how powerful a weapon is if you are not willing to use it when the time comes.

[@davidkelly4210]

It's important to remember that the Nietzscheans weren't some alien invader. They were something like 30% of the officer corp, were some of the top scientists (being the 1st to fully map slipstream in Commonwealth space), they were the primary civilian AND military shipbuilders, and made up a large minority of the total human population when itself was almost a quarter of the Commonwealth's population (and we're talking about 3 galaxies here, so about 1,000,000,000,000 Nietzscheans running about. When the war broke out, Nietzschean space accounted for just about all of the Milky Way, the Commonwealth leadership was decapitated due to how much of the officer corps joined the rebellion, Commonwealth ships stopped working (similar to the BSG reboot) becuase of Nietzschean shipbuilders sabotaging them and the Nietzschean Alliance commanded a navy 50% of the size of the (pre sabotage) Commonwealth Navy. The Nietzscheans weren't just better trained, they were better organized, had all the same solar system ending toys the Commonwealth did and had surprise on their side (the Nietzschean ambush took out over 200 Commonwealth Warships before the Andromeda Ascendant got a warning off). And before you say the Nietzscheans were still OP, I'd like to remind you that the Nietzschean Alliance LOST the war at the battle of Wichhead. If the Magog hadn't invaded and the wartime gangs were brought to heel, the Commonwealth would have likely picked up the pieces.

[@Boom-dd8th]

Great video would love to see a break down of the Arcadia from Captain Harlock!!

[@mechanoidwarhead5530]

I know this is old af, but Nietzscheans made up a significant portion of the High Guard's most crucial officers, and had access to all of the same ship tech that the High Guard did. As a result, when the Nietzscheans rebelled, they had several things in their favour: they had surprise, and were able to eliminate a sizable chunk of the most capable loyalists right off the bat. They were in crucial positions, and so just by "switching sides" were able to wreak havoc on the HG chain of command and supply chain. And they had access to all of the same tech the HG had.

[@seanobrien1644]

How about doing a review of the USS Saratoga from Space above and beyond or the TA 45 hammerhead. Love this video. Dylan was a trader should of used the Nova bombs to stop the war before it started. But did not want to sacrifice one planet to save the entire commonwealth.

[@levilamont8005]

What was he trading?

[@seanobrien1644]

@@levilamont8005 Sorry spelled it wrong. Hunt beyrayed the Commonwealth. By not using the Nova bombs to stop the attack. It could of stop the war before it got started. Hr would not sacrifice one world to save countless other and 10 of million of lives.

[@DavidKnowles0]

@@seanobrien1644 May be, but why would someone willing to kill his best friend for the rebellions suggest a tactic that would stop it. I suspect it was a trap, that the Nietzscheans wanted dylan to destroy the planet to demonstrated the commonwealth was evil entity willing to destroy worlds for no reason. The fleet would have been prep and ready to enter slip stream and vanish. When Dylan didn't do this, the fleet had to make sure Andromeda was destroyed.

[@owenstith5550]

@@DavidKnowles0 Actually I think that was Rhade's way of giving his friend one last chance to prove the Commonwealth was worth saving. It would show the Commonwealth had the strength the Nietzscheans were convinced it lacked. One last chance for his best friend...

[@robertchapman625]

Thank you lore reloaded. Ya, Andromeda ships-especially Old Commonwealth ships-can be described as flying missile platforms that can also perform non-combat roles well. Like seriously, in hard to low level soft sifi, assuming all things being equal, you're only bringing this class down by outgunning or outsmarting it. Interesting note, I think I remember it being said somewhere that GH caused the Alliance the most greif even when by itself because of its weapons (while people debate it, assuming the Battle of Hepethos is in general accurate to its abilities by itself when taking into account the number of Netizcheans ships then I feel many captains dreaded not having a fleet with them if sent to tangle.)

[@DavidKnowles0]

Even if they had a fleet, the only way they are taking one of these things down is with internal sabotage. The fleet is just the diversion.

[@volatilesky]

It needed those sensors because star trek seemingly has a magical big red button that gives you all information of everything within the star system at once.

[@_Reverse_Flash]

"It was said that the Commonwealth was ailing and decadent which is why it lost to the Nietzscheans. However whomever said this underestimated them both." - Quotation by 'Some in Universe Historian'

[@robertchapman625]

If the Commonwealth High Guard had a weakness, it was this: Its officers were too competent, too caring and too brave." "Some say the commonwealth would have fallen even without the Nietzschean treachery. They underestimate both the commonwealth and the Nietzscheans." Yin Man-Wei "The Rise and Fall of the Commonwealth" C.Y. 11942

[@_Reverse_Flash]

@@robertchapman625 Bingo! What a great series eh?

[@robertchapman625]

@@_Reverse_Flash Season 1 and 2 definitely showed more of an intresting story than the later seasons (though Wolf end plan is a little out there even compared to what happened), but I will agree with those that say even then the show had it flaws (low budget, and the scripts/actors were a hit and miss of quality.) I would say what draws people to Andromeda is the lore of the universe & cannon policy compared to other popular sifi it draws from that was airing at the time.

[@slevinchannel7589]

As it was even literally stated: Captain Hunt was a Winner. A born Winner.

[@tylerryancoleman]

What does one expect? Of course Hercules in Space needed more weapons than gawd. You never know when one of your punk brothers or a maligned step mom might have to be shown the door.

[@artembentsionov]

The Nietzscheans won because they already had a fighting force assembled and saboteurs planted at all major stations and docks. During the open phase of the war, they sabotaged nearly half of the High Guard fleet. Then they had 10,000 ships that could jump anywhere and wipe out the enemy in detail before High Guard even learned they were at war (no FTL radio here, snail mail only). Add to that the fact that High Guard was spread out over 3 galaxies and needed time to gather in force. Then the Vedrans (a race of Flashes) went away, leaving the other races to fend for themselves. They also probably knew that no High Guard captain would make use of WMDs like Nova bombs. Yes, Hunt could have ended the rebellion before it even started with one missile but he didn’t

[@lancer737]

Believe it or not, this ship almost has as many sensors as a TIE Fighter or X-Wing.

[@kiltedbroshar4187]

Andromeda is the greatest show ever. I'm watching season 4 again right now

[@miconis123]

Beautiful ship with a beautiful AI but ridiculously overpowered while being ridiculously vulnerable in ridiculous ways. What was the point of having the damn crew in the latter season when they were just 'red-shirts'? That's proven by the bridge being only for the stars

[@Silverhawk100]

I have a lot of thoughts on how an Empire with such a firepower advantage could've lost to the Nietzchians. It basically boils down to trying to maintain a 3-galaxy spanning Empire by one organization. Makes it really slow to respond to surprise threats and decentralizes a lot of their force projection. Whereas the Nietzchians were largely concentrated and focused on cutting the heart out of the Commonwealth.

[@jeremybird3467]

Great video!!! Ya should do a video about faracape's ships...the levaithans...peacekeeper and scarran ships

[@egypsy]

You forgot to mention she has her own Engineering Fabrication facilty and weapons factory on board, to continuously resupply herself.

[@BlizzardofKnives]

In the first episode, the Captain wonders how the Commonwealth lost the war, given their shear number of ships and troops. The ship's AI responds with the every day is a battle point, so perhaps the writers had similar thoughts.

[@artembentsionov]

Andromeda chose her own appearance. When asked by Beka, she claimed that she tried to approximate what the mythical Andromeda looked like, but no one has any images of Phoenicians, so she went through thousands of permutations before settling on a “walking heart attack”.

[@ericclosloso]

I think you're correct, 100 Lions are no match for granade. Which is why 5 to one is suppose to be a no brainer. I mean the common wealth should have been very stupid to loose against the Nichien.

[@redshirt5126]

Andromedas missile arsenal would make a Cylon Baseship blush

[@bxtmedia3199]

OMG MY FAVORITE SCIFI SHIP OF ALL TIME!!!!!!!

[@FriedSynapse]

Same. Keep the Defiant, Every letter of the alphabet Enterprise and even the Viper or ship from Flight of the navigator... I will always love the Shining Path to Truth and Knowledge, Andromeda Ascendant. She is the best.