Anglican Unscripted 885 - Francis Finds Hooker

[@elanamo]

I listen to your channel simply because I care deeply about the Anglican Church and appreciate your insight into current issues and doctrinal trends.

[@doorntreader7624]

Gentlemen, it's such a pleasure to join you for these conversations. Thank you for your faithfulness; thank you for shining the light of orthodoxy and common sense into dark places.

[@JCLewis27]

Thank you, again. As an Episcopal priest serving as pastor of a non-denominational church (that is growing!) I find your conversations encouraging. The Episcopal Church is dying but Christianity is not.

[@caraalfieri904]

Like the new glasses, George! Stay safe and thank you both for another good program.

[@kandymags7782]

I'm of Cornish heritage (my dad was a Methodist minister who became a missionary) - Fowey is pronounced Foy! I always look forward to your videos!

[@marcokite]

I was shouting that at the screen! lol

[@thomasyeutter1112]

The Rt. Rev. Jack Leo Iker who was an Anglo-Catholic was the Bishop Ordinary of the Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth was a strong bishop, in part because he was a friend and supportive bishop of all orthodox parishes within his Diocese; not just the Anglo-Catholic parishes.

[@pamoliver5381]

Great conversation. Blessings .Be safe.. from Nova Scotia.

[@TempleofChristMinistries]

Thanks George you just saved my marriage I'm going to buy motorcycle.😁

[@shanechellis2770]

Mainline Methodist theologians in the 20th century added “experience” to that 3 legged stool. It’s now understood of its massive mistake. It’s not very long before “experience “ becomes the dominating lens by which everything else is seen. Scripture, tradition….all eventually bow to my lived experience. Sinful nature, manifested in personal autonomy, will always seek to bend the world to myself rather than bow the knee. The grace of God is for me to be taken in, shaped, and yes experience the truth of God. Not shape the truth of God on the basis of my experience. The devils lies are as old as Gen. 3

[@martinploughboy988]

Agreed, fundamentally a stool with other than Scripture as its foundation is likely to be leaned on other than Scripture. I would also suggest that the 39 Articles only allows for Scripture as the authority over the Church.

[@martingerber8277]

As a Catholic, I agree with both of you. Pope Francis is a disaster. He often says to young people, "Make a mess." That's what he does. But, Christ our Lord is in charge of His Church. He will straiten out the mess. I never thought my Catholc Church would see what is going on now. "Lord save your people and bless your inheritance."

[@johnhudghton3535]

Thank you for another excellent digest of the recent ecclesial news.

[@CaptainMayo]

Thanks!

[@MichaelReilly-r7h]

Hello to you all As a Catholic I think you gave a excellent take on the current situation in the RC church. I have been a SSPX supporter for decades. As a side issue Bishop Tissier de Mallerais has entered into Eternal Life. They (SSPX) cannot possibly handle the pastoral care of its people. They will have to Consecrate at least on more Bishop. What will Rome say when it happens. Here we go again.

[@annakimborahpa]

I would imagine that Rome will pronounce the same judgement as was given to Bishop Tissier and the other SSPX bishops.

[@MichaelReilly-r7h]

@@annakimborahpa Do not forget that the Excomunications have been lifted and Pope Francis has been surprisenly helpful to the SSPX

[@MichaelReilly-r7h]

I have been thinking the same thing. Time will tell. 🙏

[@denniskeegan1622]

Sounds more like Francis is skipping over the Anglican Way and right into Methodism.

[@rogerknox9147]

Re the discussion about "lived experience" possibly being accorded much more authority in the RC Church's discussions on "synodality," as a Protestant I'm surprised. Unless -- the advocacy of the German and Austrian churches has something to do with German philosopher Edmund Husserl's phenomenology that made relativism respectable, e.g. in his investigations of the "life-world?" Yet that was a hundred years ago! In any case I sense a post-modern wave may have arrived in the RC Church.

[@annakimborahpa]

1. I'm relieved that the article 'a' was not placed after 'Finds' and before 'Hooker' in this episode's title. 2. 20th century entertainer Milton Berle was affectionately known as 'Uncle Miltie', but I won't assign that nickname to 21st century Hurricane Milton. 3. Starting at 23:41, Kevin beings paraphrasing 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV): "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." Response: However, wouldn't that benefit of the Holy Bible be in conjunction with 1 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)? "But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." And if the King James Bible was good enough for St. Paul ... 4. Regarding the German Synod on Synodality, please keep us informed if and when Pope Francis ratifies their decisions. But I won't be holding my breath for an affirmative. 5. In response to ABC Justin Welby's concern as to whether history will consider him to be a failure, I quote the guardian angel's inscription on The Adventures of Tom Sawyer book at the conclusion of the 1946 film 'It's A Wonderful Life': "Dear George: - Remember no man is a failure who has friends. Thanks for the wings! Love, Clarence" [Cue Auld Lang Syne]

[@marcokite]

Starts at 15:00

[@shawnbenson7696]

Great to hear you are all OK, was I Washington last week but back back in beautifully Melbourne, Victoria.

[@787Earl]

God bless you, thank you

[@stephendodgson2462]

Fowey is pronounced by the locals as ‘Foy’ (as in ‘toy’) i.e. the ‘w’ is silent.

[@annakimborahpa]

... like Hoi Polloi?

[@marcokite]

I was shouting that at the screen! lol

[@johnhudghton3535]

The Anglican Church in Fowey, Cornwall, meets in the premises of the local sailing club. It is a church affiliated to the Anglican Convocation in Europe ACE

[@annakimborahpa]

Perhaps Hebrews 6:19 (KJV) finds a watery resonance in Fowey: "Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;" And if the King James Bible was good enough for whoever it was that wrote Hebrews ....

[@Bob.W.]

Hope Milton misses you.

[@johnhudghton3535]

Gavin Ashenden et al appear to have jumped from the frying pan into the fire. Will Roman Catholic traditionalists "jump ship" to the Orthodox Communion?

[@annakimborahpa]

Hebrews 12:29 (KJV): For our God is a consuming fire. And if the King James Bible was good enough for the Hebrews' author ...

[@annakimborahpa]

@@royquick-s5n The next pope will be decisive as to what "may evolve in Roman Catholicism".

[@marcokite]

I did...I was a 'traditional' Roman Catholic, now very happily Orthodox. I noticed that the RCC was (without knowing it) trying to be 'Anglican'. ☦☦☦

[@marcokite]

@@royquick-s5n - I was a 'traditional' Roman Catholic, now very happily Orthodox. I noticed that the RCC was (without knowing it) trying to be 'Anglican'. ☦☦☦

[@Hellish2050]

Francis is just following on from Nostra aetate. This document needs to be removed first before the RC church can reverse its errors.

[@annakimborahpa]

Nostra Aetate is the aerial respiration of ecumenism in the nostrils of the Catholic Church.

[@caterinemasak2193]

Francis must go. I as a Catholic will not leave the Catholic Church. Francis and his cronies must go! Thank you for your program!

[@octaviosalcedo9239]

Dude he is your pope you can not say that and be Catholic. Sola Scriptura more then ever.

[@davidmorrison2739]

@@octaviosalcedo9239 He's infallible.

[@davidmorrison2739]

My weak attempt at humour.

[@royquick-s5n]

​@@davidmorrison2739 It is a good laugh! It is, too, dag gum serious. It is a dictatorship asserting the dictator is the sole authority. How many people are taken by it! What has been declared to be infallible, on top of it, is fiction or, at best, conjecture, i. e. infallibility, immaculate conception, and assumption. That it should have any equivalency to the Word of God is horrid, confuses, and is an obstacle.

[@davidmorrison2739]

Our basis is Scripture. Tradition is interesting but very secondary. Reason is problematic. Scripture is not one leg of a three-legged table. It is our sole authority.

[@davidrudd2215]

The idea is of God-given reason being applied to the understanding of Scripture.

[@annakimborahpa]

John Calvin wrote in his Preface To The Reader, SUBJECT OF THE PRESENT WORK, [prefixed to the french edition, published at geneva in 1545], that the Institutes of the Christian Religion should be memorized first before reading the Bible, so that the reading of the latter might them become 'profitable': "My opinion of the work then is this: I EXHORT ALL, WHO REVERENCE THE WORD OF THE LORD, TO READ IT [the Institutes], AND DILIGENTLY IMPRINT IT ON THEIR MEMORY, IF THEY WOULD IN THE FIRST PLACE, HAVE A SUMMARY OF CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE, and, in the second place, an introduction to the profitable reading both of the Old and New Testament." [Beveridge translation, Page 22, Paragraph 6, ntslibrary website, Institutes of the Christian Religion, pdf page 30 of 944]

[@annakimborahpa]

@@royquick-s5n So maybe Francis did find Hooker?

[@davidmorrison2739]

@@annakimborahpa I think Calvin had things the wrong way round there.

[@davidmorrison2739]

@@royquick-s5n The trouble is that those laws so often become almost as important as Scripture in the minds of many.

[@melvynmcminn9121]

Yes, but it's a tragedy that the ACNA still allows women in Holy Orders...

[@Martin_Adams184]

Richard Hooker did not mention the three-legged stool. He writes of the importance of scripture, tradition and reason. But his writings make it very clear that the last two are always infused with the authority of scripture. (Your discussion does mention the primacy of scripture.) The three-legged analogy was a later distillation by theological commentators; and it is significant that this happened when Anglican theology was becoming (late 17th to early 18th centuries) increasingly influenced by enlightenment concepts, and especially the increasing primacy of human reason. As you rightly say - that leads us to where we are today.

[@marilynmelzian7370]

I am sorry, but I don’t think “reason” traditionally is meant to be equivalent to personal experience. That interpretation is why the Church of England and the Episcopal Church have gone off a cliff.

[@marmeemarch7080]

Yes, that's correct! "Holy Reason" was not and shouldn't be individualistic at all.

[@marilynmelzian7370]

@@marmeemarch7080 Exactly

[@HB-iq6bl]

come on guys pick on Welby.leave our Pope alone.

[@martingerber8277]

I am a Catholic. George is only trying to show that what happened in the Episcopal Church is now in the Catholic Church. The office of Pope is honored. The Pope is the Vicar of Christ; not Christ. His prime duty is to preserve and pass on the Apostolic Faith intact, not to tamper with it or change it. Pope's are guardians of the faith. They cannot change the ancient Catholic faith. No Pope is an oracle of God. St. Paul, in Galatians, rebuked the first Pope, Peter, for promoting a false teaching.

[@martinploughboy988]

@@martingerber8277 Where is the evidence that Peter was the first Pope? Paul never mentions him in his letters either to or from Rome & at that time Rome had a biblical leadership made up of a group of elders/overseers. Sadly, Popes down the ages have abandoned the faith which is found in Scripture.

[@Hellish2050]

Hurricane strength can be reduced considerably, using drone boats spraying salt water. These would operate in the Carribbean, and in the Atlantic. The spray seeds clud formation, considerably cooling the sa surface temperature. Look up Prof Steven Salter. The cost would be much less than the cost of damage.

[@tonyoliver2750]

Prof. Stephen Salter - a case of nominative determinism?

[@Hellish2050]

@@tonyoliver2750 Could be!

[@martinploughboy988]

I would suggest that the success of Soul Survivor was not successful in spiritual terms just because it attracted a lot of young people. I know the Pastor of my church, in the local area, was very concerned when some of our young people went to their events.

[@annettecook7213]

🙏🏻

[@johnhudghton3535]

++Justin should have resigned years ago. He is a failure indeed.

[@RevJoshuaBovis]

Kevin, A big fan of your channel and your episodes but unless I have misunderstood you, what you have said about the "three legged stool" is not consistent with Anglicanism. Below is not original to me (I wish it was) but it describes where I am coming from. The “Three-Legged Stool” which has plagued Anglicanism for decades has come to represent three traditions with Anglicanism: Reformed (Bible), Catholic (tradition), and Liberal (reason). Thus, it was thought that Anglicanism could comprehend the Reformed, the Catholic, and the Liberal streams just as it could see the Bible, tradition, and reason as equal sources of authority. However, this Hookerian “Three-Legged Stool” is nothing more than a myth. That is, the idea of Scripture, reason, tradition (and we could add experience too) as equal sources of authority is completely foreign to the thought of ‘The Judicious Mr. Hooker.’ Scholarship over the last 50 years has debunked this way of thinking, and reformation historians in particular have led the charge. What Torrance Kirby, Nigel Atkinson, Bradford Littlejohn, and others have rediscovered, is that Richard Hooker has remarkedly reformed theological credentials.This should not surprise us, given the reformed nature of the Elizabethan Settlement and that Hooker’s patrons were the reformed theologians, John Jewel and Edwin Sandys. Indeed, the scholarly consensus largely agrees that Richard Hooker wholeheartedly believed in the supreme authority of the Bible, and that all reasoning and traditions were subordinate to God’s written Word.

[@marilynmelzian7370]

@@RevJoshuaBovis Thank you. This makes good sense. I do think it is legitimate to be steeped in the teachers and thinkers of the church from the very beginning and listen to their wisdom. But I agree that scripture is the highest authority.

[@Mark_Dyer1]

As a member of The National Secular Society (UK), and as a confessing follower of Jesus of Nazareth, God's Messiah, if Francis, Bishop of Rome, is discovering the scriptural doctrines of Richard Hooker, then that has to be to the good: both of the Church and society. It is what differentiates Christians from Mohammedans: unlike them, we believe societal laws should be based on the exercise of human reason: not 'revelation' or 'divine fiat'. Islam demands the Sharia be imposed: and I see far too many 'Christians' on KZbin who think Islam has this right (but only in respect of the executing of 'sexual' sinners). Those who practise usury are just fine! But it is this category 'scripture' which is the problem: in being selected as canonical writings (traditionalists like to claim they are selected for 'authority') these works of human minds and hands appear to undergo a literary form of 'transubstantiation': whereby they become the "words of God, Himself". This is nonsense: the 'miracle' of the entire bible (the word 'entire' is important) is that - despite the vagaries of the human authors - they communicate something about what the Creator God of Israel, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, is like. Those early Jews who followed Jesus looked to their 'scriptures' (Tanakh; probably in its Septuagint, Greek, version) to ascertain whether there was anything in them which might allow their interpretation of Jesus as Messiah. In Isaiah and Daniel they found their answer: and 'Christology' was born. The messianic 'type' of Jesus is a thoroughly 'Jewish' interpretation. And the entire theology of the New Testament owes vastly more to Hebrew thinking, than that of the Greeks: notwithstanding the glorious opening to John's Gospel. This transubstantiated view of 'scripture', of course, has implication when (for example) you describe certain bishops as "faithful". You mean faithful to the transubstantiated view of scripture: not to God. Fortunately, working through us, the Spirit threw up one man who realised that - if what was being claimed for Jesus of Nazareth were true - then this has implications for Jew and Gentile alike. It made sense of the architecture of the Temple: with its Court of the Gentiles. The tragedy is that - as Rome took charge of the Church - it lost its 'Jewishness': partly through deliberate design: and not for the good!

[@martinploughboy988]

The difference between Islam & Christianity is that Christianity has the Scripture God authored, Islam has the writings of men.

[@Mark_Dyer1]

@@martinploughboy988 If you believe this, then you are a part of the Church's problem!

[@h-uk7702]

George: you begin by talking about being called to someone who was dying, and you almost immediately move on to talk about the privilege of that and how it makes being a priest so wonderful. This kind of thing is common amongst clergy. As a cleric, I find it borders on occupational narcissism. Just do the job. Be there. Pay attention - but not to oneself 'having the experience'.

[@georgeconger2850]

Sorry can’t oblige. Being in God’s presence in prayer and fellowship with others is a joy. It’s not a job by any means. And even after 30 years it gets better and better each day

[@lizgriffin7381]

@@georgeconger2850we delight in the joy and sense of fulfilment that you have in what the Lord has called you to do for His Kingdom.

[@marmeemarch7080]

I wouldn't want him to talk about the experience of the other, dying, person, for privacy reasons. Only his own experience.

[@marmeemarch7080]

If you have lost someone "recently," I sympathize with you. It's difficult.