Animated Atrocites 165 || Extra Credits - Designing Ethical Web Series

Part 2: • Animated Atrocities 16...
There's no problem with loot boxes, seriously guys.
Patreon: / mrenter
Link tree: linktr.ee/mren...
Find (almost) all of my videos here: docs.google.co...

[@TheKing-ve7lz]

I'm in a game programming class and have met many people who are likely to become game Programmers in the future. And I can say with certainty that most developers, programmers, artists ect that i have met thanks to this class Do not want to put these loot boxes in their games. It not the people who are doing the work in making the game who want this. It's greedy company C.E.Os.

[@grugg3108]

When Bungie first made Destiny 1, their first title under activision, who the moved to for artistic liberty that they thought they lacked under microsoft. After they finished the plot for Destiny they were forced to redo it for more potential for you guess it... microtransactions

[@PIKMINROCK1]

Sadly, it is many higher up designers that put in these lootboxes and monetization. The executives may put in the demand for monetization but, it is the designers that make them work effectively. The why is pretty simple as they think by boosting the game's profitability, it will enable them to work more freely in the future.

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

"The more of something you have, the more you want of it." Just as people are addicted to spending money on microtransactions, the corporate higher-ups at video game companies are addicted to making it.

[@uamdbro]

If you think everybody in a game programming class is likely to become a game programmer in the future, I have some bad news for you...

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

@@uamdbro They said "many" not all. You haven't added anything to this discussion.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

"Its not the consumers responsibility to support an industry" THIS, people don't bring this up enough.

[@JustaGuy_Gaming]

The other problem is most gaming companies are making more than ever, and yet they always want more. Some games like Runescape or Overwatch make millions of dollars and none of it is really invested back into the game itself. The underlying flaw of MTX imo is it just goes straight to the top. The CEO's get massive bonus's for high MTX sales, share holders get dividend and higher stock value. The actual game developers and staff get next to nothing and the game itself see's very little of that success. Think of all those annual franchise games that claim MTX help support free content updates. Yet they stop bothering making content after the first year, some barely do one DLC before giving up despite racking in the money. Fallout 76 has had whales feeding it cash for almost a year now, yet what have the players really gotten in return?

[@theinvisiblecunt6417]

Actually I think it does regarding the industry's policy, for example if its means are immoral

[@JustaGuy_Gaming]

@Nicolas M It is sad how often it is used against people. Oh the company is scum, the product is defective and even dangerous but please buy it any ways or the workers will be out of a job! How many times have we been told that MTX help pay for poor starving game dev's, just to find out no amount of money ever really trickles down to their level?

[@alanbrito141]

This is how piracy is born

[@hubguy]

I don’t get why they think we have an obligation to support them. The point of entertainment is to give something we like and would enjoy. If we don’t like it, we don’t support it. No obligation to give money to something we don’t like This goes without saying that most of the time regardless of success or failure, a huge chunk of the money goes in executive pockets, so much of that support goes to the people we DON’T want to succeed in cases like EA and Activision

[@davidfranklin1588]

Indie Dev here, yeah with many open source tools and more accessibility to design knowledge, games are actually getting fairly cheaper to actually develop. As touched on, many budgets are thrown toward exuberant marketing budgets and inflated exec salaries; all to the disadvantage of the many artists and programmers who actually develop the game. The loot box model argument never held any water.

[@fernandobanda5734]

I don't think AAA games would need to spend too much on tools (at least individually per project) or game design. They sure as hell wouldn't use many open source tools, though. The very big hit (aside from marketing like you said) is the amount of content and high fidelity art and animation. This is what an indie could never do because it's insanely expensive.

[@CurtyTails]

@@fernandobanda5734 even in terms of high fidelity art games like dust an elysian tale are made by 1 single guy-so even then the lott boxes argument for said indie devs needing to be had doesnt fly...its for the shareholders to get extra dollars alone-thats it

[@defundhollywood3259]

>inflated exec salaries I think you hit the nail on the head right there 💰💰💰

[@Wiimeiser]

For example: AFAIK Bobby Kotick has earned more in 2020 so far than my father did between 1990 and his death in 2011.

[@Cacowninja]

What company do you work for?

[@tribacioustee2846]

"It's not the consumer's responsibility to support an industry" You know, I think this is the first time I've ever heard someone actually SAY this. I've heard many people who idolised Extra Credits say the opposite. I've seen people act like it wasn't their responsibility. But the idea? That the consumer isn't responsible for the industry? It's actually refreshing to hear articulated and explained. After so many years

[@DeathnoteBB]

Tribacious Tee I mean, I’ve heard it countless times, just about workers being paid less than a living wage.

[@georgekern7334]

I agreeee

[@ShinoSarna]

I mean, I could understand if people say that it's gamers job to support like, small independent indie studios... But yeah, multi-billion dollar triple-A giants? Yeah, definitely not the consumer's job. If they want to work like big business, they should act like big business.

[@CurtyTails]

@@ShinoSarna even with indie games-its up to the developer to make something people will find FUN. Thats when you get games like sunset that are just a walking simulator and a megaphone for the developers politics. Then this developer got so entitled bitching at why people are scared to make their own games when its still up to the person to make something others want to play-not something the developers want to just breeze through and hear their own political rants-why dont they make a blog post instead-because people dont want to pay 10 dollars for what is a game version of a political walking simulator blog post. So while i agree when a good indie game comes out its up to us to support and spread the word-its up to the developer to make something that is worth our support.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

@@ShinoSarna Supporting small indie studios isn't either people's "job". Would you support YandereDev?

[@1987MartinT]

That whole "Loot Boxes Should be Allowed Because Games Are Art, And This is Like the Government Preventing People From Experiencing It" argument falls flat on its face, because loot boxes restrict access to things in a game you've already paid for. So it's more like an art museum that won't allow you to see its best artwork unless you pay extra money, even though you've already paid the entrance fee. And you only get to see a few random ones every time you pay. With no guarantee that you'll see the works you want to.

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

1987MartinT this comment right here is why people are against micro transactions and loot boxes altogether.

[@Dukehart70]

It's more like an art museum where you can pay $10 to visit in the daytime and look at the paintings, or pay $100 for a private showing at night where you can sip wine and chat with the artist while looking at the painting. No one is forced to buy DLC. If you don't like DLC, then DON'T BY IT! Stop whining that it exists.

[@Dukehart70]

@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr If people were against micro transactions and loot boxes altogether they wouldn't buy them and companies would stop selling them.

[@Warcrafter4]

@@Dukehart70 As the video explains: Its not for the 99% of people who play the game its for the 1% of gambling addicts who get hooked on them and make up for well over 90+% of all lootbox/micro transaction's sales.

[@Dukehart70]

@@Warcrafter4 We don't make laws banning something to protect 1%. Furthermore, most legislators have a very tenuous grasp of technology. They still want to 'censor the Internet' and ask questions like "Where is the Internet's Main Server?" Do you really think they'd be able to craft a law that bans loot boxes but not Expansion packs? What if a subscription game offers cosmetic extras to people with a lifetime subscription?

[@LeonardGreenpaw]

Note: Whales is actually a term casinos use for high rollers that spend a lot in casinos as well

[@UBvtuber]

I'd imagine the reason this term doesn't get brought up much is that it's almost hilariously condescending.

[@rickmarr4478]

Now it is also a term for players who spend heaps on Microtransactions and Loot Boxes. Man some of stories online about some whales are shocking.

[@XVINutkabob]

They’re both right

[@Ironysandwich]

And both refer to a system in which the animals in question were harpooned, butchered, and sold off bit by bit for a profit. It kind of shows you what the industry thinks of them.

[@angrytheclown801]

@@Ironysandwich And at least the gambling industry is honest about it.

[@DrShaym]

To argue that loot boxes aren't gambling because you can't cash out is a technicality that isn't compelling to anyone who's intellectually honest. It's like saying, "I didn't kill him, the bullet did."

[@autobotstarscream765]

"Loot boxes aren't gambling because you always lose!"

[@wannabehistorian371]

Ah yes, lootboxes. An evil both people like Jim Sterling and Dr Shaym can agree is bad. It’s honestly kind of beautiful.

[@sonic8005]

Or alternatively, arguing that because there isnt a physical real item or way to get your money back, it isnt gambling, it is a ripoff! .... Wait no! Have to push these as good!

[@DioBrando-mr5xs]

@@sonic8005 Still bad, just not gambling.

[@MacrossSD]

@@MateuLeGrillepain I salute your command of historical analogy, good sir *tips hat*

[@DrShaym]

I find it laughable when people claim AAA publishers need to use predatory monetization tactics to make back their money. Is anybody out there really stupid enough to believe EA and Activision are broke?

[@SuperGoker64]

Honestly, I wouldn't doubt that there are such people. In the nearly 30 years I've been alive, I've learned to never underestimate how far human stupidity can go.

[@troin3925]

SuperGoker64 *cough* Flat-Earthers! *cough*

[@SuperGoker64]

@@troin3925 Meh, flerfers are nothing. I've heard from one of my friends that the only reason some people can spell the word "bananas" is because of Hollaback Girl. Then, there's my _favorite_ customer interaction, where one guy said, _to my face,_ that $1.99 is half of $2.99.

[@SuperGoker64]

@Orga777 Indeed

[@weregretohio7728]

It's sad what people will apologize for. Meanwhile, companies like EA and Activision get rich while actively screwing devs over.

[@whiz8569]

"And it's all downhill from there. And that brings us to today's subject: Extra Credits." Damn! That segway had so much shade, you basically parked it underneath the Amazon canopy. Man, that was good.

[@Bendyrulz]

Segway is the brand. The word you were looking for was “segue”

[@stridertechz]

Well, you know what they say. “You either die as a hero, or live long enough to become the villain”

[@Newportal1]

That has been remarkably true in the past few years. A lot of KZbinrs I've watched over the years turn out to be scumbags. To the point when I'm just weary when the next KZbinr has their mask slip. There are some people who have remarkably held up well over long periods of time, and they are commended like James Rolfe and the Runaway Guys. But unfortunately, a time comes to us all. Even Mr Enter himself will face a point when he cannot continue.

[@Reagan1984]

Who knew that one of the most impactful quotes that applys to several figures throughout history came from rather good superhero film?

[@WWTDD37]

You know what's really interesting about the Magic: The Gathering example? Back in the day they had cards that would force opponents to ante cards from their deck. This was scrapped because not only did players hate it... but they didn't want to get in trouble for illegal gambling.

[@ragnaricstudios5888]

Michael Ford I heard of those cards lol, steal your jace mind sculpter or karn

[@mgeiger2341]

@@ragnaricstudios5888 NOT THE BLACK LOTUS!

[@ragnaricstudios5888]

Not Patrick stole all of your power 9 cards

[@mgeiger2341]

@@ragnaricstudios5888 Oh yeah, well my 4th level balrog cast the spell of zorton on you so a gazillion points to slytherin.

[@alecazam6755]

@@mgeiger2341 Or maybe I can just win with my play sets of infernal contract of ante is a thing.

[@robo-nidai4236]

The Fall of Extra Credits Part 1: Defending Shady Businesses or How I Learned To Stop Fighting And Embrace Corporate Culture

[@dinadina2000]

you have won the internet

[@redornament3248]

Coming up next: The Fall of Extra Credits Part 2: Dan leaves EC, placing Matt on the mantle, which sees the infamous _Stop Normalizing Nazis_ video being posted, and the EC team calling ex-subscribers "bigots".

[@redornament3248]

@Digital Rain let's not forget that because of the _Stop Normalizing Nazis_ video, Extra Credits lost more than 30k hard-earned subscribers. Talk about salt to the wound.

[@brunnokamei9623]

The Fall of Extra Credits Part 2: Politics in Gaming or Why Videogames Shouldn't Depict Nazis Or Women Without Burkas And Why A Gay Characters Are Good Just Because They Are Gay.

[@redornament3248]

@Obadiah Guyman Dan was fine. I guess I can say the same for Matt as well. But by now the reputation of Extra Credits is forever tainted.

[@BugsyFoga]

To quote the Dark knight:"You can either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain"

[@porcelaindoll1228]

Don't forget about this quote " You have become the very thing you swore you would have destroyed"

[@Shift_Salt]

@@porcelaindoll1228 "you were supposed to save the consumers not destroy them!"

[@masquerabe6692]

I don’t like micro transactions, it coarse, rough, and it gets everywhere

[@naotatheendlessesper]

@@diegokaqui60 the wild card

[@wannabehistorian371]

So that’s where the quote comes from!

[@MrOakridge]

James Portnow was a game-design instructor at DigiPen for the first year or two that I was there. He was so full of himself that it was basically impossible to learn anything from him. I don't think anyone missed him or his ego when he left.

[@kieravermeal9127]

I wonder if any of the game design staff from Digipen remember him. Since that's the college I want to go to.

[@CurtyTails]

@@MateuLeGrillepain i think that just proves noone missed him

[@MalekitGJ]

He is the guy that chased out their first (& female) artist, and got Dan so fed up he got out at the end. OG Dan, apart from being the commentator, was the main editor. Many scripts had to be redone because Dan always found James' scripts too political, at first.

[@hotplanofaction3219]

"Like raffles", yes, let's talk about raffles for a minute. Specifically the last time I participated in one. 3 years ago my children were in middle school band. Shortly before Halloween the band decided to hold a spooky themed raffle to raise money for the band. SO, I took my kids to this Halloween raffle for shits and giggles. There were four "grand prize" baskets of Halloween stuff and some movie passes with a total cost of $50 a basket (yes, the school had to let people know this). I bought 5 raffle tickets for $10. Another parent spent over $100 on raffle tickets at the table next to us. She just sat there holding this WAD of tickets, let's call her "Wad Mom". Long story short, I won two of the fucking baskets. I handed the second one to my son's friend that tagged along because I'm not a selfish little shit, we didn't need two prizes. After the raffle as we headed outside Wad Mom "confronted" me about my "obvious cheating" , clearly I had some sort of "in" on a spinning basket of tickets. She would not let it go and ended up banned from future raffles at the school. I have not done a raffle since. The point here is that if someone has a gambling problem it WILL surface in ANY gambling situation. PERIOD.

[@CurtyTails]

Wow...just wow. But seriously dont let someone else ruin your fun. Dont let yourself become that mom but if anybody has a legit chance-dont be afraid to put down a dollar or two-thats it. But seriously thats stupid her getting upset because she expected that if she spent more money than the baskets were worth she would automatically get returns-thats not JUST a gambling problem since she accused you of cheating

[@defundhollywood3259]

I had a few friends that constantly won raffles, wherever we went. Some kind of dark magic. They were never confronted like that but they sure got a lot of dirty looks lol.

[@monkyfunny2171]

Not so similar story, at my school for Boy Scouts we had a raffle for like cookies and stuff, and everyone got a chance to pick a ticket out of the raffle ticket bag where the y kept the tickets for each of the prizes, and when it was my turn I accidentally pulled out my own ticket lol.

[@animegx45]

Two of the four baskets. Wow. I can lowkey see why Wad Mom was so pissed. XD

[@nittayoshifumi8252]

Shit, she would get very triggered at gacha drop rates then.

[@tony198333]

After technocracy, I think Enter has been as effective at branching out his content, to give relevant thoughtful commentary on, as any other animation critic on KZbin.

[@LWolf12]

Can't say I mind the shift, he has an interesting take.

[@train4292]

awesomo9 a complement = the guy being mindless? Wow! That’s such great logic!

[@Shift_Salt]

@awesomo9 moo-🐄

[@nekonomicon2983]

Yeah I don't mind this content It is relatively in my interest

[@jbdbibbaerman8071]

@@Shift_Salt Meow~ 🐈

[@Tavdogg11]

You my man, have been taking large, risky steps over this past year. You have been doing a great job so far. Good luck Mr Enter.

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

"Loot boxes aren't gambling by the legal definition" So was everything that was illegal at one point or another until they were legislated as illegal. Just because there isn't a law against something now doesn't mean it's on the up and up.

[@GlassGolem]

Like war crimes, for example.

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

@@GlassGolem exactly.

[@limon16025]

Africans weren't people by the legal definition when slavery and the slave trade were a thing. Does that mean kidnapping, selling and forcing them to work under terrible conditions until they died was okay?

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

They're morally wrong, which the law IS supposed to represent, however the law isn't always correct. Hence why rules have been added, removed and updated continuously throughout the span of human history.

[@naotatheendlessesper]

@@limon16025 comparing human suffering to a mere lootbox? You have issues .....

[@iangoldberg3992]

Not to mention James Portnow has been credibly accused of abusing his employees, likely leaving to Daniel Floyd’s leaving of the company. James continues to be a presence in the industry and has faced zero reprecussions for his behaviour.

[@papershadow]

The mot I know of James Portnow beyond his work on EC (good and bad) is a verbal spat with the late Totalbiscuit when the latter was getting treatment for Cancer that was not a good look for James. With that limited context I would not be the most shocked to learn he wasn't the best employer or employee

[@NintendoTV64]

Like him or hate him, Mr. Enter is spitting straight facts right now!

[@dannylamb456]

You know what they say about broken clocks after all. Honestly, this was a pleasant surprise.

[@wanicki3575]

NintendoTV64 why exactly is he disliked by many?

[@smashster1787]

Wanicki 357. From what I’ve heard, he was pretty aggressive when it came to some of his reviews. Luckily, he’s a lot calmer in his reviews now.

[@CurtyTails]

@@smashster1787 exactly-seriously its people who keep reiterating problems that have been solved or dumbasses who say he should take cartoons less seriously even though he now gets paid to review cartoons so its NOW HIS JOB so he should take it seriously.... By their logic he shouldn't take it seriously because they dont care about cartoons. Legit thats like me saying they shouldnt scream and shout about football and take it less seriously because I DONT CARE ABOUT IT. Which is stupid and pathetic to tell people to care less about something just because you dont-at least when it comes to entertainment we consume.

[@defundhollywood3259]

🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@FIamestalker]

EC is no longer the same EC that it was in the start, slowly over time its parts were replaced and their goals and identity changed along with it, a clear example of the Ship of Theseus

[@luigibro2424]

And the last piece that had to go to complete the transformation was Dan, now no piece is original

[@darrelsam419]

This makes me understand the Ship of Thesaus concept now. So much of EC has been replaced that it's no longer the same series it was. It may still be called "Extra Credits" by name, but it's not the same thing anymore.

[@uamdbro]

How is philosophy 101 going?

[@jaebeeart3683]

"Video games should cost more than they do, and it's only because of shadey monetization models that they've been able to stay at $60!" Meanwhile, Jim Sterling made the argument that because of these shadey monetization models being shoehorned in, games should be FREE.

[@rotciv557]

@@darknephilim3248 it's always the crazy ones who end up revolutionizing the world. God Bless Sterling.

[@ElliotKeaton]

On the other hand, Jim Sterling doesn't understand basic economics.

[@dernekromantsino4109]

@@ElliotKeaton And he demonizes everyone that doesnt share his political views, thats a big no no for me, also the Dark Souls video , oh yes , the Dark Souls video .

[@gracekim25]

MamaWulff 😅I don’t think it’s possible for every game to be free

[@wannabehistorian371]

@rotciv557 Don’t you mean Thank God for him?

[@rhysjonsmusic]

Had a friend in highschool who was a longtime subscriber of extra credits and boy could I hear his heart sink when I showed him what his beloved content creator had become

[@komi-sanmustbeprotected5665]

The fact is...the game was rigged from the start.

[@pyroparagon8945]

Protecc

[@theratking3075]

Hippoty hoppity now protecc you comrade as if property

[@mathiasthewise]

I know where this is going. OFF TO NEW VEGAS, I'VE GOT SOME LEGION SOLDIERS TO WHOMP!

[@warlordofbritannia]

Truly, Wild Card or no, The House Always Wins....

[@NSluiter]

Don't underestimate what I can keester Benny.

[@Mario1080p]

This is a kind of video Jim Sterling would greatly approve. I recall he even had a disagreement with Extra Credits around the time that loot box video was new.

[@lh757]

Jim Sterling has changed as well though. He has also gone downhill. I have the feeling that he's got lost in character.

[@It-Will-All-Be-Okay-I-Promise]

L H really? What have you that impression?

[@FIamestalker]

They even made an episode criticizing the use of whales early on, yet years later they are in favour of it.

[@FIamestalker]

@Emperor Palpitoad Someone that spends a lot of money on micro transactions or lootboxes, hundreds or even thousands per month. Its common (as Extra Credits stated themselves in the episode mentioned) microtransaction systems are designed with these people in mind. The term It comes from fishing ofcource, why fish for small fry if you target big ones like whales.

[@ashkitt7719]

Ullissen Why do I get the feeling that they are in favor of lootboxes just because some of the people who are against them are right-wing? Supporting capitalist exploitation to *checks notes* own the Chuds...?

[@wannabehistorian371]

@Emperor Palpitoad It’s in the video.

[@dycedargselderbrother5353]

I haven't watched EC in years but don't they offer themselves as consultants to video game companies? If so, that explains it. I've seen the same thing happen elsewhere. You cannot review the practices of and offer services to the same industry. They will claim otherwise until blue in the face but eventually the corruption will be obvious.

[@VulpesHilarianus]

There's a reason why Dan left and made Extra Frames. James being pushy and manipulative was the final straw, but I get the feeling Dan pushed back in subtle ways with his voiceover through the years as members Extra Credits became more directly involved with the industry. When you become part of the problem you no longer see the problem.

[@SpecterVonBaren]

Once you take away Dan's more nuanced way of speaking the things they're saying now become much more obviously problematic.

[@frankg2790]

That is why I unsubscribed, Specter.

[@BigA207]

Just looked at that channel and it looks quite impressive.

[@KeybladeMasterAndy]

@@BigA207 It is. And his LP channel, Play Frame, is actually pretty fun to watch sometimes, too.

[@IronicCliche]

They knew what they were doing. Their "more studies needed" and "ethical loot box" arguments are variations on the two key arguments cigarette companies used to keep them legal. It was too specific.

[@MenwithHill]

In the year 2525, if man is still alive, we'll still need more studies into the effects of this highly lives industry.

[@NotAGoodUsername360]

Another fun fact about using the "it's legal so it's fine" argument: You know what ELSE used to be legal? Letting kids gamble. Yep. It was a thing for a time before the law caught up. Pinball machines that paid out for high scores got cracked down on, even. That was one of the reasons the issue of payouts became contentious in the first place. Hell, if you ever read old comics, you can find issues of Superman where he begs kids not to play with slot machines after a store owner convinces a kid to gamble away his lunch money.

[@XanthinZarda]

As another comment mentioned, putting lead in food was legal before the FDA was formed. Lots of things are legal. Forced relocation is legal. Doesn't mean it's a _good_ thing.

[@jamainegardner4193]

@@XanthinZarda What mas that quote from Metal Gear Rising? "Being Legal Doesn't Make It Right"?

[@seancoldwell7752]

As well as a desktop hadron collider with actual uranium. It was banned after they realized, duhh.. uranium is dangerous. oh my golly gosh. And thus it was banned after a few hundred deaths. And how Britain made child friendly lead based finger paint with a sweet taste! SAY GOOD BYE TO YOUR BRAIN CELLS KIDS FROM THE 1800’s.

[@lukebytes5366]

It's bewildering how people act like we have to bend our rules around the law and not the other way around. The law is not absolute.

[@velazquezarmouries]

Well a ius positivist can only work if you also want law to either be ironically good or if you want law to truthly follow the objective well being of the people

[@purplehaze2358]

“The fish, if you’re wondering, is not the boss.” That would actually be, legitimately, humorous.

[@jenniferguajardo1335]

This is the least expected thing I seen today.

[@rossjohnstone4689]

I'm on the same boat as I was watching extra history while this got uploaded X3

[@jenniferguajardo1335]

@@rossjohnstone4689 LMAO 😂

[@rossjohnstone4689]

@@jenniferguajardo1335 Although I still watch extra history and probably will as I love history too much to look away X3

[@howlingpantera22]

@@rossjohnstone4689 theres tons of better history channels on youtube. potential history, armchair historian, history matters, etc etc.

[@rossjohnstone4689]

@@howlingpantera22 You have a point, might have to check those out

[@Pr0jectFM]

I used to be a fan of Extra Credits. It was touching when James did his unscripted 20 minute speech about game compulsion, yet here they are defending another type of gaming compulsion.

[@crazyinsane500]

Now the only touching James does is to his employees. . . Against their will.

[@dannylamb456]

@@crazyinsane500 oof

[@tjlnintendo]

crazyinsane500 Waaaat? Oh no what did he do?

[@TinoMexineoMtz]

tjlnintendo twitter.com/cavni/status/1166963668254199808?s=21

[@zyaicob]

@@crazyinsane500 Well that's not really what happened but what did happen was probably worse

[@Dark_Tale_1985]

Watching the fall of Extra Credits is like watching Activision fall down the same path that Atari took that led them to leaving and making Activision in the first place. Irony is a funny thing.

[@tjlnintendo]

I do wonder if Dan was forced to say these things. I’m assuming he left due to his disagreement..... hopefully.

[@monkyfunny2171]

He actually probably was by James. James literally touches people so that’s what probably happened.

[@chomper391]

Remember back in the day when you bought a game, you actually owned it? Now a days, it seems like you don't actually own a game but just rent it out until the servers shut down.

[@tjlnintendo]

Funny thing is that a lot of people used to rent games back then.

[@HEYBUDDYMAN86]

On the Raffle comment, that’s why all raffles done by companies say “no purchase necessary” because if they didn’t it would be literally considered gambling under all states and why some states don’t allow these raffles in the first place.

[@dreamwanderer5791]

Can we just think about the fact that South Park did an episode on lootboxes being literally the work of the devil, and some people can still sit here with a straight face saying it's ok to destroy the lives of the 1% addict. Still hope it becomes an Admirable Admiration one day.

[@Cure_Hana]

Probably one of my personal favorite episodes because of how much I relate to it. I don’t have a gambling problem, but I admittedly have a bit of a phone addiction, easily getting sucked into new videos and mobile RPGS.

[@JakBed96]

South Park seems to always be on the up and up.

[@thiscrushhate]

What episode was that?

[@dreamwanderer5791]

"Freemium isn't Free"

[@thiscrushhate]

@@dreamwanderer5791 thanks,,

[@Chlorophos-lq3gs]

Atrociites sounds like an awful parasite.

[@puurplegiraffe]

Jake Paul?

[@runningoncylinders3829]

At-Rossie-Yites!

[@Nqutical]

Aoyama

[@Chlorophos-lq3gs]

@@Nqutical He's adorable, isn't he?

[@Mysticfox-wk2be]

If you disagree with them, its because you a nazi. They actually cheered on twitter over losing subscribers after their infamous video. If you thought they were wrong its because you are a nazi, and they dont want support from nazis. And they lost subs at insane rates over the next week.

[@Gamerboy007]

So, in regards to whales, there's a friend of mine in a group that I play Smite with. This friend has dropped thousands on the game for skins and such. It's his choice, so fine. However, it has become a running joke in our group that Hi-Rez recognizes his account as a whale account, because when he reports a player for being toxic or whatever, he gets an e-mail the next day about "an action has been taken against a player you reported." Meanwhile, if I or someone else report a player, we may not even get an e-mail like that for a couple weeks if ever.

[@Holy_Zen]

People never seem to mention that games were priced $60 because they had to be boxed and sent to stores. So part of that cost was supposed to cover the cost of distribution. When everything switched to digital distribution, did that price change? Absolutely not. That was pure extra profit for a while. That $60 went further than it did before. So arguing that the price hadn't changed for years, while technically true, doesn't account for that change in distribution.

[@garibaldibritann1240]

Not only that the cost itself is used to pay up game developers and sponsorship alike

[@justaspectator9762]

Extra Credits Was good at a time. Mainly being a passion thing. I feel like it's went bad in recent years. I really miss good extra credits.

[@Ironysandwich]

I watched some of their older episodes to make sure it wasn't just me selectively remembering the highs and ignoring the lows, and your right, they were good at first. Most of their earlier videos still hold out very well today, including ones touching on subjects like propaganda. Compare their first video on propaganda games to their current "All of the sudden: Nazi" video and it's like night and day. Frank discussion of the issue that recognizes its complexities and doesn't talk down to the audience, vs. ridiculous stereotyping and ludicrous, simplistic "solutions". It really was a much better series in the past.

[@user-bf8zc9eo1o]

Their mythology videos are still good tho. But i really miss the time when they had good gaming videos :(

[@tomtheconqerur]

To me they went down hill when they made that persona 4 video.

[@calemr]

Before they decided videogames cause violence?

[@xxgoldmansionxx]

There you are watching Extra Credits episodes when all of a sudden BAM it’s bad.You didn’t ask for this,you didn’t choose this, yet there it is

[@troin3925]

Even Jim Sterling talks about how bullshit the “video games are too expensive to make” excuse is when it comes to people defending microtransactions (including Extra Credits in particular).

[@Decumos]

Thank god for him.

[@joshnolen2675]

Thank god for Jim fucking Stirling son

[@markcobuzzi826]

*Plays the music from Jim Sterling’s Commentocracy videos* Duke Amiel du H'ardcore: “There you are, playing the PvP in your World War II shooter, and all of the sudden, you’re a Nazi. You didn’t ask for this, you didn’t choose this, yet there it is... Roysten! Roysten! They dared to make a WWII multiplayer game where players are placed in the opposing factions of WWII, and gameplay is not different between the British and the Nazis! Oh the horror! I cannot do this anymore. Let’s just go back to playing Battlefront II as the rebels and stormtroopers please!”

[@ThereAreThoseWhoCallMeTim]

Troin Ah yes, Jim Sterling: the video game “journalist” that either makes significant, well-researched, convincing arguments in favor of gamers and consumers, or spews complete nonsense that makes us all cringe and facepalm until our faces are sore.

[@Ashkihyena]

Troin Sorry, Sterling is a fat idiot.

[@FIamestalker]

I like to think Dan left because he knew the peak was far behind them, that the original goal he had for the show was long gone and they had become nothing more than a corporate mouthpiece and just couldn't justify to himself anymore why he was still a part of it. Though the reality is probably way less favourable for my view of Dan

[@realwingedchaos]

God, I do hope that's why he left. He just seems too pure to have actively wanted to do the more controversial episodes. At least he left before James wrote the nazi episode...

[@PIKMINROCK1]

If I remember correctly, I think it partly had to do with James being a creep and sexually harassing some of the women that worked on the series

[@treyconover4107]

It was most likely because of James's harassing, manipulative, and controlling behavior. Carrie, who worked on the show as an editor and is also Dan's wife has spoken about how James even targeted her and she's still uncomfortable talking about it. And even then she didn't receive the blunt of it that James's ex or Will did who were pushed out of the show by James himself.

[@treyconover4107]

Dan, Carrie, and artist Dan currently have a very wholesome game play channel called play frame that's worth a watch. They definitely still seem to be good people.

[@alecazam6755]

@@PIKMINROCK1 I've noticed that basically every other famous male who sexually harasses people is a raging SJW. I wonder if there's a correlation between being a creep and wanting to pretend you're not a creep.

[@MrBenMcLean]

You stated that every single crane game is fraud. I should point out that this is not actually the case. There is one type of non-fraudulent crane game, called the Candy Crane. The Candy Crane is not fraud because it is designed to guarantee that every single player gets at least one piece of candy. If the player fails to grab a piece (detected by whether there is weight pressing down on the prize box) then the crane lets them try again and again until they get at least one piece of candy. And they advertise this by printing "Every player wins" on the machine. The Candy Crane also has some skill involved, because a skilled player can position their crane to pick up multiple pieces of candy instead of just one. The proprietors can also add a few non-candy harder-to-acquire items inside just to mix things up. You've got to respect the operators of these machines. Sure, the real point is to be a loss leader that will attract children so their parents will put money into the other amenities at the establishment, but it is still a fun game for little kids and it isn't fraud.

[@appelofdoom8211]

Just a shame that it’s an exception to the rule. Because i like the concept of crane games, not how they are usually used.

[@Kanohoro]

His exact words were "almost", I'm pretty sure, but still interesting information

[@sethlangston181]

Just because one game chooses to not use the rigging model doesn't mean the model isn't an industry problem.

[@MalekitGJ]

Real serious question: How much each try cost vs cost of each candy?

[@unsuspiciousdweller8967]

Even the candy crane doesn't guarantee always "winning". I have played several cranes where, because I couldnt get candy in 3-4 trys, that was it. Didnt get it. Paid money for nothing.

[@rowanatkinson3594]

"All art is propaganda, though this is not to say that all propaganda is art"-George Orwell

[@frankg2790]

A sentiment I can agree with.

[@GoblinLord]

My problem is propaganda implies all art has a statement politically, sometimes your kid just, really wanted to draw a dog, it doesn't mean that it's some sort of propaganda stating that capitalist dogs are taking over the world and soon we'll all be corporate slaves EDIT: I respect George Orwell to a massive degree, he pretty much helped me think for myself when I was young when I looked up his work, but I heavily disagree with this statement

[@rowanatkinson3594]

@@GoblinLord Yup! All art says something about the conditions it was built up in. Even the most innocent

[@epion660]

@@GoblinLord Propaganda isn't always political. It encourages (or is intended to encourage) a certain opinion.

[@TheRealUnkn0wn_289]

@@GoblinLord Yep

[@thejedisonic67]

Animated Atrocities extra: misspelled title

[@Karmy.]

Atrociites

[@mikeholcomb9013]

Woopsies

[@andykishore]

Was that intentional?

[@Shift_Salt]

@@andykishore No

[@JumpyNedved]

*miisspelled

[@forte-metallix337]

"A duplicate is not more content. It's buying the same content again." Couldn't have summed it up better myself. As a life-long Nintendo fan, I'm getting increasingly concerned that they're falling into these same practices with the likes of Mario Kart Tour. Sure, that's just a mobile game, but I'm not paying the price of a full 3DS game just to guarantee I'll get one specific character here.

[@thegamingdoggo9519]

Atleast when you get a duplicate in feh you can power up your characters Mario kart tool has no excuse

[@SSBBPOKEFAN]

@@thegamingdoggo9519 I DO kinda wish the exchange rates for "sending Heroes home" was higher, though. Also wish I could exchange unwanted Stamina Potions and Dueling Crests for in-game resources I DO want, like Divine Dew.

[@thegamingdoggo9519]

@@SSBBPOKEFAN same

[@ivoryvt]

I agree with this.

[@sir.hopper]

@@SSBBPOKEFAN For the first statement, I usually just hoard most of my unwanted units for skill fodder, as 90% of them will have either a niche skill that I will want for a specific battle, or an overall useful skill that almost any unit can use, namely the ones that come with Reposition and Swap, for instance. So personally I see more value in just making Combat Manuals than I do just sending them home. That way if I need feathers I can just throw away my Manuals en mass to get however much I need. As for the latter argument... completely agree. I've been playing FEH since day one and have logged in almost every single day since. Not to say I've been super active in the game throughout the years, anything will get old after doing it for two years. My point though is due to my time in the game, I'm currently sitting on 640 Stamina Potions, 300 Dueling Crests, and 12,700 Arena Medals. There is absolutely no way I can reasonably deplete all of those resources. So a way to sell these unnecessary triple+ digit inventory slots would be very appreciated if it means I can stock up on the rarer drops... Shit, I would be okay with a 20 Potions = 5 Divine Dew if they were to offer it. Or you know what? Let me trade 100 Arena Medals for ONE Dew, I'll still have enough of that shit to spare after making one good weapon refine.

[@ZorotheGallade]

"When designed ethically, lootboxes can---" Damn, they contradicted themselves without even finishing a phrase. That takes skill.

[@Vladislav888]

From the top of my head: you can trade loot box stuff in-game with other players and you can exchange the stuff you don't want in the shop with two to one ratio or something. Problem pretty much solved. It will probably cut into the profit margins, though.

[@coreylineberry8557]

Владислав Пилипенко And they’re free.

[@epion660]

"lootboxes" can be perfectly ethical. Seriously. Pay 99 cents, get a random cosmetic item. Boom, done. Not good enough? Perhaps a trading place where they can be traded. A market where they can be sold and bought with other players? There's a game that does this. It's called Team Fortress 2. It's not 99 cents, but it's entirely optional. *_entirely_* You can trade any of the items through steam (which is required for the game, so not 3rd party). Any cosmetics can be bought and sold at prices the community itself sets. While not exactly something you're guaranteed to see, it's entirely possible to get free stuff from other generous players. I myself during last year's "scream fortress" Halloween event got several items from a player giving stuff out for free.

[@BloodyAltima]

​@@epion660 Lootboxes are entirely built off exploiting gambling addictions and children with no sense of what their parent's money is worth. Not a lot of ethical direction to go from there, just shades of reduced unethicallity.

[@epion660]

@@BloodyAltima The concept really isn't. Yes, the ones EA and similar companies pump out are definitely made with malicious intent, but buying a literal grab-bag isn't exploiting people. When it's entirely optional, it's perfectly OK. You didn't have to buy the game, you didn't have to play it, you didn't have to buy it to play the game, you chose each one of those. When actual content is locked behind these boxes (Like Battlefield and Battlefront), then it *IS* requiring you to gamble for your content that you bought.

[@TheForsakenEagle]

Can't wait for Extra Credits' "Why China Pride is Good for Video Games" video.

[@Pangloss6413]

Wut

[@j.c.2240]

Their silence about the Blizzard controversy... disappoints me to no end. Maybe we should make an open letter to E.C., like the one they made about E.A.

[@mysterymastermind175]

They're not about ethics, they're about FiGHtInG NaZIs

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@mysterymastermind175 With glorious Communism! *Soviet anthem plays*

[@Galaxia53]

They think everyone that unsubscribes is a bigot. Why even try to reason with people like this

[@Druid-T]

@@Galaxia53 Because leaving a problem to fester on its own is one of the ways it gets worse. You can't kill an idea, but you can change it

[@jamespocelinko104]

It gets worse when you remember their follow-up video on propaganda games, which was focused on how China was encouraging people to censor each other for them.

[@thegamingdoggo9519]

I only accept loot boxes and stuff like that when it's on a free game they have to make money somehow but if the game is 60$ that's were I draw the line

[@maakujiten3812]

I only accept loot boxes when they're called Amiibos

[@blazeofglory4053]

Even if a 5$, 10$, or 20$ game has lootboxes or microtransactions, odds are... I'm not buying. I'm buying the *game.* Not half the game locked behind a paywall. *The. Entire. Game*

[@thegamingdoggo9519]

@@blazeofglory4053 same

[@Cure_Hana]

The only time I pay with micro transactions in a game is if it’s something limited that I think is worth getting (like a new character skin), and if the price seems reasonable ($10-$20 is usually the maximum I’m willing to pay).

[@thegamingdoggo9519]

@@Cure_Hana same

[@Pb0b178]

The fact that they keep bringing up the point of items in games having no monetary value weakens their point cause if thats the case loot boxes are literally just gambling but you dont even have a CHANCE at winning your money back

[@PIKMINROCK1]

That is why most people don't like lootboxes/gacha. Unfortunately, I think it also drives the conversation away from understanding the actual problems (and solutions). Aside from the fact that most games are moving away from lootboxes on console (because of this sentiment being so prevalent among console gamers), the addiction is more inherently tied to the incredibly low chances of getting what you want and the desire to in the ingroup across the social aspects of the game. From what I see, the whales are either players that make a waifu/husbando out of certain characters but, are not lucky in getting them (since most games have impossibly low rates even on rate up) or trying to obtain them as a status symbol in the community (either as a top-tier player or like showing off your trophies) The second kind is the less covered but are the more consistent profit makers for these games since you need to spend a fair bit to keep up with others who are also spending alot of money.

[@JoViljarHaugstulen]

In most cases you don't call that gambling... you call it a scam... (well you do get digital items so it is just very close to being scam while not being one)

[@Pb0b178]

@@JoViljarHaugstulen damn, thats an even better to put it

[@purpledude1973]

holy hell, i watched jim sterling talk about EC's "games should cost more" video but i had no idea they were *this* bad. thanks for laying this all out

[@noahkarpinski1824]

You want bad, just comb through the comment sections for the idiots who *agree* that the multibillion dollar industry with bloated executive salaries, microtransactions and overworked and underpaid employees absolutely SHOULD be raising their prices to make even more money.

[@decoyofchivalry7581]

Never thought I'd see the day when Extra Credits would end up on Animated Atrocities. The world is truly going mad.

[@mystic-malevolence]

My favorite thing about Runscape was how microtransactions were introduced shortly following an investment firm buying a majority share in the developers' company. But those two things totally had nothing to do with each other...

[@BDESal]

Yep I remember, long time rs player here since 04

[@complimentbotd7232]

Since I've a mate who has gambling addiction and who almost went homeless spending every cent almost on Black Ops3 lootboxes, I think they can count as gambling.

[@thedukeofdoom6323]

They deserve to be homeless then... cause guess what people with severe gambling addictions have an issue like that it’s their problem not the casinos. Learn to be less of gullible twat

[@MacabreDaymare]

@@thedukeofdoom6323 So drug addicts and alcoholics are gullible twats for having addictions? Great logic. Not flawed logic at all. You're a fucking dumbass.

[@Dukehart70]

So? Do we have to ban casinos because gambling addiction is a thing?

[@Dukehart70]

I have a mate who is diabetic. If they drink a regular soda pop, they could die. So should we outlaw soda pop?

[@capejedi2048]

@@Dukehart70 do soda corporations put out systems meant specifically to take advantage of that disability?

[@michaelcinelli4120]

I'm designing a game myself, and I think this would be a great pair of punchlines for microtransactions: 1. Carnival barker selling a loot box for exactly 1 cent of real money, 1 time purchase, all you get is a safe on your head and walk out of it with 1 in-game guilder 2. Media puppeteer villain stops the party's progress with a literal paywall, you're temporarily stuck (before you essentially call in the programmer) and the price to keep playing is 1 soul, complete with a fake online store

[@calemr]

That second one is in a game already. Not a Literal paywall, but in "Pony Island", you're playing a game made by Satan. And it tells you to grind a level 1000 times, or pay with your soul... You end up hacking your way through the issue instead.

[@person14876]

Michael Cinelli what’s the name of your game

[@michaelcinelli4120]

@@person14876 End of the War Gods (working title) It's a world and worlds tour, reforming the war Gods we can, putting down the ones who can't Second scenario with the literal paywall is Mara's doing, first guy might be an agent of his

[@vsear5911]

The game I'm making has a character sell a mystery box that is outrageously expensive. It has a disclosed low-ish (20%) odd of having one of the items you need to collect, but is hard coded to bomb the first time and the seller pretty much acknowledges you for a sucker when it does. You're pushed to buy it near the beginning of the game and it's part of a process of nudging the player into figuring out how the forced autosave works and how far you can abuse it without needing to break immersion.

[@NylaTheWolf]

calemr Thats pretty funny!

[@anAngryHamster]

I haven't seen Mr Enter in over a year and a half. The guy has certainly improved.

[@dontyouworry215]

I used to be a super fan of extra credits, and I always loved their work, and so i got to see them slowly decay and fall over time, and it was one of the saddest things i ever saw in terms of a channel. The key issue with the whole situation is James, at least from what i've seen. James hopped on board in the transition from dan's personal project to the web series of extra credits, and while at first he started as a writer for the series, he soon became the de facto leader, pushing everything for his view. Over time, James became more entrenched in the video game industry, just like you said, and rather than pushing for better and pushing for change, he soon agreed with the status quo, because he thought it was how developers should make money. This only got worse as time went on, and the original Dan actually quit because of all the stuff James was pulling, which left James uncontested once he put up the new speaker, and then it just devolved into slimy corporate paste with no looking back. Dan cared about games as an art form, and as a medium of entertainment, and made the channel to voice his love of games. James, however, cared about games as a way to make money, and joined the channel in order to boost his popularity and raise his voice. Unfortunately, the more cynical man won, so we're left with extra credits as it is today. But i'm just a fan, so i could definitely be wrong on some things. please, if you have anything to add or correct me on, please tell me or talk about it.

[@asbestosfish_]

I think this is the first time “Animated Atrocity” has been a truly fitting title, because if there was a video equivalent of Crimes Against Humanity, EC could probably be prosecuted under it.

[@GoatAndDog]

Screw going to bed Mr enter just uploaded

[@Mathee]

This whole lootbox craze reminds me of back in the day when the USA didn't have very good regulations on food; for the sake of profit, food manufacters would contain chemicals unfit for human consumption, like formaldehyde and lead, in order to conceal if the products were damaged or expired, all of which was perfectly legal at the time; the ingredients on the label didn't even have to match the ingredients in the product. Companies argued that they HAD to do this in order to turn a profit, and consumers would often get sick from the food they ate. Thankfully, a man by the name of Harvey Washington Wiley and his Poison Squad, the danger of this lack of regulation was brought to the public, and the president, and thus the FDA was born. And guess what? Now that consumers were no longer getting sick from the products and had the knowledge that companies couldn't get away with making them sick, people began buying more food than before, making the industry's profits rise!

[@koolmckool7039]

However, to play the devil's advocate, the FDA certainly has been getting a bit trigger happy sometimes. I'm not saying that they're bad in and of themselves, but some of the laws they do could be completely gotten rid of.

[@Mathee]

@@koolmckool7039 I must admit, I'm not from the United States, so I don't know a lot about how the FDA works or what laws they're passing, but from what I have learned about the opiod crisis, I was under the impression that the FDA had lost a lot of power due to lobbying from drug manufactorers

[@koolmckool7039]

@@Mathee They're a special case. Sometimes they do the job they're supposed to, but sometimes they over step, or under step their territory. The good thing is, is that congress can veto their laws if we ask them to.

[@Mathee]

@@koolmckool7039 That's good:)

[@koolmckool7039]

@@Mathee Most of us don't though. Mainly because we don't care enough.

[@adhamwashere5320]

Extra Credits: If you don't buy this game for $70 then I'll disappoint MY shareholders. Me: Well, sucks to be you.

[@chillin5703]

Let me also just comment on the issues with their history series: they consistently seem to be OK with sacrificing historical accuracy in favor of narrative flair. Not good for a side-series that tries so hard to appear factually correct and that puts up 'fact checks' for their content.

[@amethystrose1888]

I was a whale for Homescapes a while. I didn't realize it had a term. I found myself spending my entire paycheck on that mobile game so I could keep helping Austin renovate the house. I was invested in the story and cared about the characters, so powering through the match-3 elements to do the fun part of decorating, choosing elements, and following the story, was just a chore. Buying my way through it was so effortless, it was one tap and boop. Instant game money and turns and lives and power-ups. It was genuinely addictive and I only recently deleted the game. By my best guess I spent well over 900 dollars on a mobile game. :( It's not fun or normal behavior. It's addiction.

[@jackcouch8322]

It’s ok, let it out.

[@zenfrodo]

And Homescapes is a particularly disgusting case. The 'scapes games used to be find-the-object puzzle games. You paid a flat fee for the game and got the whole game to play to your heart's content, no microtransactions, ever. Then they completely ditched those older versions -- you can't get them at all. Only the match three BS exists -- match three being one of the most overdone games out there. Playrix changed ALL of their games to this model, except for Township (which is a Farmville thing) and ditched all of the old flat-price games. After playing the old flat-fee games, the match-threes are BORING. The stories all suck. They drag on and on over each tiny step -- it's such a blatant cash grab, it's not funny.

[@wanicki3575]

Amethyst Holman thank you for having the humility to share your story with us

[@OdaSwifteye]

@@zenfrodo So those ads of Finding the right object for the puzzles are accurate but for a version of the game that no longer exists? You just blew my mind.

[@OdaSwifteye]

I remember Homescapes and I was invested in the story too. Still a good game in terms of being a puzzle game with actual characters in it. Unfortunately it's just like every other match 3 game so I gave up on it and just swore revenge to one day build or invest in a match 3 game that had a nice story that wasn't a cash grab scam.

[@karaoconnoraliasraidra]

Thank you for talking about gambling addiction. So many people refuse to take it seriously.

[@librathebeautifulwarmonk1283]

I hope you get over it soon my guy

[@karaoconnoraliasraidra]

Libra The beautiful War Monk It's not something I've suffered with myself, but thank you. One of my favorite athletes is a gambling addict (baseball legend Pete Rose), and I've read stories about others.

[@mr.meloetta1939]

the old man blocking the path by getting off in EPIC must become a mark of gaming history

[@purplehaze2358]

I never actually knew nor cared about Extra Credits. However, hearing the opinion of someone who used to be a fan was a breath of fresh air.

[@1991birthday]

Yeah, I hate the concept of loot boxes, being someone with a gambling problem myself. I actually keep myself away from traditional gambling but the fact that gambling opportunities are everywhere, including the games we play is troubling & impossible to avoid. For the most part, I avoid games with loot boxes but for the games I am involved with, there are areas of gambling. My biggest wallet killer would be the Pokémon TCG, especially right now with their release of Hidden Fates which is one huge, crazy mess itself. I probably spent around $200 on that set alone so far. That’s me limiting myself, if I wasn’t holding myself back, I probably would of spent all the money I have saved up for my vacation next year. I’ve been working hard to fight my gambling addiction but it’s super hard to overcome, games who take advantage of this is sickening, this is why I do devote so much of my addiction towards Pokémon because they’re fair about it. The big money chase cards that people will fork out to pay because they need those cards in their decks are actually quite affordable because Pokémon knows the cards people want so they put alternate arts of them as promos so you can get access to them if you need them, it’s the collectors & players who like blinging their decks where the problem lies because if you want a high rarity art of a particular card, either pay lots of money on packs or spend a couple hundred on the single, depending on what it is, most high rarity singles in Pokémon for the more current cards don’t normally go above $200, only ones that do or get near there are the Charizard ones. I actually put a lot of my energy towards wanting to get rare & valuable things in a video game towards shiny hunting in Pokémon. In the games, as long as you bought the game you need, shiny hunting is free to do & does have a randomness factor to it, you can get better odds at finding them by doing certain things but that doesn’t cost real life money, sometimes will cost in game stuff that you earn strictly in game without outside help. It’s something I like to do when I feel like testing my odds at something, very little to lose that could result in a big & rewarding outcome. I happily show off my shiny Pokémon to friends & tell the stories of how I got them. Shady practices such as loot boxes suck, people who support it just to keep the corporate people on their side, suck. I hate it when someone sells out, it’s tragic to see. One of my favorite youtubers of all time was Edd, even though he is no longer with us, he still is my favorite given his legacy lived on & his friends support his wishes. He never sold out, I remember hearing Tom say that Edd was offered stuff to work with TV & although he did make a commercial, he declined TV stuff because he didn’t want that leash, he wanted to create what he wanted & to stay loyal to his fans, he was truly an amazing person from the sound of it. People like him shows that you don’t need to sell out to be successful but I have talked to many people who didn’t get into his stuff until after he died so it could be a case of artist dying & then becoming popular but when I was in high school, a lot of people did watch his stuff so it could be a location thing as well? The guy was loyal to his fans & even if he didn’t make much money, he’s always going to be remembered. I can tell you that he always responded to the messages I sent him on KZbin & back when I did in 2009, that meant the world to me. Sadly lost access to that account when I was forced to switch to gmail so I never was able to retrieve the messages & archive them for myself but the memory of him actually reading my whole messages & getting back to me is incredible. It hurts when someone allows themself to be weighed down by corporate but always remember that there are amazing people out there, even if they’re no longer with us, they still have left a lasting impression. Sorry to hear that this happened to a series you enjoyed, it’s very hard & it’s not good having someone who once acted like a friend to do slimy dealings, many people are probably tricked into going along with it. So happy that people like you Mr. Enter exist, I know you get a lot of flack but I’ve always enjoyed your content, even the stuff I don’t agree with, because you’re honest. I highly appreciate honest people, we need more people like you on this platform.

[@auxchord444]

Imma be real with you chief This Right here Is it.

[@jada_9827]

???

[@Dr.Oofers]

jada_98 he’s talking about Mr enter’s video.

[@aftertone8339]

At least James Rofle seems like a nice guy

[@andykishore]

True.

[@nekonomicon2983]

@awesomo9 what do you mean?

[@mgeiger2341]

@awesomo9 Did he pull a Linkara and steal them from Tales from the Longbox?

[@nekonomicon2983]

@awesomo9 I didn't know he was copying him like that I mean I didn't mind the format since the whole angry reviewer thing was kinda new back then but still...

[@averagebritishguy7082]

@awesomo9 There is a 36 minute long video proving why Chris NEO's video is complete horse shit, and I recommend that you watch it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIvXXqeXoZp9ga8

[@JP1337mod]

remember when everyone loved extra credits and hated Mr.Enters, not the other way around

[@darrelsam419]

Shows how people can change over time, I guess. Some people like Mr Enter learned from his mistakes and improved on his commentary over the years. But some people like EC decayed over time because they refused to listen to criticism and began growing more greedy.

[@librathebeautifulwarmonk1283]

People still needlessly hate on him but Pan Pizza proved that that's slowly dying

[@dannylamb456]

You know what they say about broken clocks

[@bananasinfrench]

I never got why people hated Enter in the first place tbh, so I’m glad to see it subsiding

[@TaoScribble]

I'd never even heard of Mr. Enter before today, but I do hate what Extra Credits is now.

[@jooree7696]

Mr.Enter in 2013: Nostalgia Critic reference Mr.Enter in 2019: "A lot of youtubers are suffering from making horrible content" while showing a NC video Proud

[@historiansayori2089]

To be fair, the Nostalgia Critic at least appeared half decent back then. It’s a shame that he turned out like he did, especially since I was a fan of his earlier videos

[@freddybear2005]

The same can be said for SuperMarioLogan. Especially with Jeffy.

[@swordhunter12]

Honestly, we should have seen the writing on the wall when EC started using the term "Whale" unironically.

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

Another reason why Magic: The Gathering doesn't work as a comparable example: in Magic, there's value in having repeat cards.

[@UltimaKeyMaster]

Hell a third of the cards in your deck are blank lands that only serve as a power source to do literally anything. Same for Pokemon, but just for attacks.

[@GlaurungtheRed]

While I'm fine with criticizing Extra Credits for this stuff throwing it at Dan on the other hand is a bit excessive, since he wasn't the fighter and is no longer associated with them.

[@3GearsTurning]

What is Dan doing now? I didn't get to see why he moved on

[@GlaurungtheRed]

@@3GearsTurning He's working on a personal channels called Play Frame and New Frame Plus

[@bagathplays27]

@アノニマスの見解 i believe this is the case there is were also allegations of abusive behaviour on the part of James make by some of the members of EC the main one i have seen being made by the artist Lee Lee

[@pyrosianheir]

Yeah, it seemed like he was more the face of the series rather than the one writing it as it went on. Fitting in recording time as well as actively having a day job, wouldn't leave much time for writing once they got to having two series. @Bagath Plays Wait, James did what now? *googles*... dang it.... Well... That changes things...

[@JustaGuy_Gaming]

I don't really think Dan left for some kind of moral high ground, he was with the channel far too long in the "bad days" for that to be the case imo. I don't know if he was getting screwed out of his fair share of the money or he just saw the sinking ship that was EC and jumped before it went down. Better to start up your own channel while still popular than to ride the sinking ship to the ground and then try to start one up while your name is mud.

[@shadowmist9093]

I think MysteriousMrEnters humor still works today and everyones commenting about that humorous title error

[@LuigitheMan20]

Idk, an old man jacking off acting as a boulder blocking a certain path is kinda niche.

[@lavoncooper3176]

i'm amazed the extra credits episode did not say "surprise mechanics" as an argument lol

[@ConnorTheUndying]

Man, I expected a video like this from someone like YongYea, or Jim Sterling. You definitely know your stuff, though, and researched a whole lot. I'm impressed! Well done, Enter. Also, I appreciate the soundtrack.

[@crazyinsane500]

You want to know about that shift in perspective when dealing with loot boxes? Because their writer (and notorious sexual harasser) James Portnow works almost exclusively on games with loot boxes. It turns out they had a vested interest in protecting unambiguously evil practices. And god help anyone who wants to fight for basic morality at EC, James fired people for a lot less, like not going out with him.

[@shawnfields2369]

So, basically, it was this James dude's fault, and was essentially and basically enforcing his specific brand of bullshit the EC team, and not just that Dan guy's fault? Not saying he shouldn't take his part of the blame, but I'm just trying to make sure this is correct, and not just blaming someone else, or hoping that they don't want to paint their idol as a complete fucking douchebag, or see that maybe the person they idolize was really a piece of human dogshit all along? Not saying Dan's completely innocent either, but what you're saying is, this James Portnow dude was a HUGE piece of shit? Just asking for clarification.

[@HEYBUDDYMAN86]

“A drug addict will always get the hit they need.” Not really... from my understanding that’s where accidental ODs come in. I could be wrong.

[@theuncalledfor]

It seems more likely that overdoses com from unregulated (because illegal) drugs with little to no quality control and inconsistent concentrations of active ingredient. Get a batch with too little active ingredient, don't get the hit you wanted, take more the next time, surprise, it contains a higher concentration of active ingredient, therefore you just increased your dosage a _lot_ more than intended. If only drugs were legal, regulated, and taxed, and the public was genuinely educated about them instead of fed fearmongering propaganda. Lies and exaggerations are not effective deterrents because if drugs are that bad, why would anyone take them? People don't believe the lies, underestimate the actual danger as they discredit the exaggeration even more than it deserves, and get addicted. That, or their lives just suck so hard that they don't care anymore. In which case properly regulated, legal drugs would decrease availability of drugs for people in that sort of situation.

[@Trecherousbeast]

@@theuncalledfor you know what, that makes sense. I keep forgetting (somehow) that drugs are completely unregulated, which is probably what makes them more dangerous. It reminds me of when alcoholic beverages were illegal so people started making their own, but since not everyone is a chemist they actually ended up poisoning themselves

[@Druid-T]

Long story short, an OD is a hit the body couldn't handle. You can survive an OD (look at Demi Lovato's OD from last year), and you can OD on legal drugs (alcohol poisoning comes to mind), it's just far too easy to do it on more potent substances

[@theuncalledfor]

@@Trecherousbeast Exactly. Prohibition doesn't work, you can't stop people from getting high. Why punish them for a crime that harms no one but themselves, when the much better way to keep the populace safe is to just regulate and educate? Why waste money on fighting a war you can't win, when you could profit off of the thing you're fighting, steal away all the revenue of illegal, violent dealers and smugglers, and actually reduce overall drug consumption, all while cleaning up your own ethics?

[@Foreseer117]

@@theuncalledfor Because we do have regulated versions of these substances and it's causing huge problems. Opioids are used to make prescription painkillers, they are also the basis of heroin. Even with regulated prescription drugs we are seeing people getting hooked on this stuff. And drugs definitely harm more than the user. Drug users are at an increased likelihood for commenting felonies, domestic violence, and other forms of abuse. This lie that drugs are harmless needs to stop. The truth of the matter is that humans shouldn't ingest certain substances and more drug contraband is on that list. Marijuana is one of the few substances that I can say is fine. Seriously talk to people who have got clean, they can tell you drugs do more than make them feel good.

[@c0mf0rta61ynum6]

14:37 Automatically going to give you all the credit for using Ace Attorney music, especially from Trials and Tribulations (my favorite video game of all time).

[@lughaidhmcloughlin3640]

Dan doesn’t work on Extra Credits anymore and it’s James who writes it, so talking directly to Dan, which you sometimes do in this video is, is kind of inaccurate. Great vid btw

[@zealiouszone8861]

Well Dan would have to agree to host the show based on what James was writing about right? So wasn't he kind of responsible at least to that degree?

[@KeybladeMasterAndy]

@@zealiouszone8861 Yes, but he's less likely to hear those criticisms now that he doesn't work there anymore.

[@zealiouszone8861]

@@KeybladeMasterAndy okay

[@westube3493]

Imagine if when you bought a DVD you had to pay for the deleted scenes, directors commentary, making of, and special features.

[@TheFrugalVideoGamer]

The best EC videos have to be their coverage of "Spec Ops: The Line" and how the mechanics informed the story on a subliminal level, and their video about "Call of Juarez: The Cartel" in which they called out the heinous levels of BS found within the game that were propaganda.

[@TheBreakingBenny]

That video on the Call of Juarez game is so good it's even on Crappy Games Wiki. Crazy, huh.

[@Valkod23]

Another series of videos they did that I liked was them talking about level design and such for Durlag's Tower in the original Baldur's Gate. The earlier Extra History videos are a given too.

[@TheFrugalVideoGamer]

@@Valkod23 The single best Extra History had to be their coverage of Admiral Yi of Korea - someone I'd never even heard of before, despite his exploits surpassing those of Heratio Nelson of England.

[@LendriMujina]

Good timing; I really needed that first 2 minutes and 45 seconds. This video went up while I was in the middle of a "what's the point"-type slump with my projects and I needed a little talking-up.

[@geistgrace6452]

That okami music.... also, i love the objection music timed with your own objection.

[@ElGringoCastellano]

I think you should discard the "past your prime" mentality. If you want to get better, keep creating, read more about game design, get constructive criticism and feedback, and refine your craft

[@rainbowphoenix1363]

I love how you can't depict gambling in games in most countries, yet everything's perfectly fine if you're actually gambling

[@aria5614]

Now I feel even more sorry for Dan. EC was his creation, and James has either taken it from him or ruined it after inheriting it. Either way this whole mess is quite sad.

[@luigibro2424]

I agree, I think Dan was taken for a ride, James is the one with the vested interests in the industry. I think he mainly used Dan as a mouth piece. In several of their videos he even says these come from James’ research or conversations

[@wannabehistorian371]

But wasn’t it Dan who said these things?

[@luigibro2424]

Poke Emblem yea, but James writes the scripts, Dan may have a bit of influence like that part that baffled Mr. Enter where Dan says “a ton more research is necessary”, may have been added by him but I don’t know for sure who’s mostly in control

[@dannylamb456]

@@wannabehistorian371 I'd still put some of the blame on Dan for not realizing the fact he'd been played. Sure, it's kind of harsh to say that about someone who lost their passion project turned "business" but if Dan wasn't totally ignorant to the fact that his "friends" had their hands up his ass like a sockpuppet, I might feel some sympathy.

[@ShadowPa1adin]

20:40 Lootbox apologists saying we "need to do more studies" before we do anything about lootboxes are like fossil-fuel company defenders saying we "need to do more studies" before we do anything about climate change. Yes, it's a good sentiment and all, but the studies were already done with some disturbing revelations and that's why it's a concern in the first place.

[@somefatfuckwiththeinfinity6475]

extra credit makes nostalgia critic a genius

[@zamuy12479]

i really wish i could disagree with any of this. i really wish their arguments could still be defended as in-good-faith. i wish they were still the extra credits i watched for years and loved. they aren't.

[@Nymphonomicon]

'If it's not legally defined as a problem, then it's not a problem.' I have another way to phrase the industry's look the other way take on whether their lootboxes are or aren't gambling, "It's not cheating if you don't get caught."

[@fluidwolf]

D'arby would be proud

[@yoshimanrpg]

Can we get a download link of Epic: The Humorous RPG ?

[@hiddendesire3076]

9:00 Erm...they have gotten predatory to a degree. Look at the recent mario kart app and Animal Crossing Pocket Camp. Even in the fishing tournaments they offer a golden rod which will double the tournament fish you catch all the while running you 80 bell dollars or whatever they’re called. Meanwhile they have lootboxes in the form of fortune cookies which cost that premium currency for the chance of getting various cosmetics and furniture. On rare occasions one will be sold for 5,000 bells.

[@ElliotKeaton]

In fairness, they did try including everything in the base game for a one time purchase fee of $10 with Super Mario Run. It just failed miserably. The smartphone market demands free or near-free games with microtransactions as the only cost, even if those costs wind up being substantially more.

[@notoriouswhitemoth]

Isn't it funny how this series that's repeatedly explained why it's absurd to think video games cause violence literally made a video saying that video games cause violence?

[@itsaUSBline]

Direct causation and influencing peoples' overall worldview and perspective are two distinctly different things.

[@notoriouswhitemoth]

​@@itsaUSBline Yes they are, and the video I was referring to said that video games about World War 2 directly cause people to become neonazis.

[@itsaUSBline]

@@notoriouswhitemoth Oh I hadn't actually seen that one, my bad. I guess enter mentions that one here, too. I need to hold off on comments before I finish watching the video haha

[@kanchomerocks12]

I remember when they completely misrepresented several moments in persona 5.

[@YourCrazyDolphin]

Yeah- having just got the game I recalled them mentioning a point where you pressure a character into being a nude model right after she went through go tough crap... Then playing the game find out you had the very legit reason of using it to open the way forward in the current area- plus the fact Ann already had agreed to the modeling, and nothing would actually happen until after the deadline (meaning the image that she was nervous about to start with won't even matter if you succeed).

[@kanchomerocks12]

@@YourCrazyDolphin Also when they say that Joker blackmails Kawakami even though her social link is all about helping her free herself from the people who ACTUALLY blackmail her

[@YourCrazyDolphin]

@@kanchomerocks12 Closest it ever gets at first is just that Kawakami assumes you're spying for another teacher... When really you had no clue about her 2nd job up until that point. Next time you speak, it is actually to help her keep her secret from another teacher.

[@Santoryu90]

Yeah that’s when I unsubscribed to them and now they gotten much worse

[@zacharyames1108]

@@kanchomerocks12 p

[@Anyo92]

9:08 over half of pokemon’s profits are made from its merchandise and trading cards while only at most about a quarter of its total profits are made from selling video games (every single video game title they’ve made) iirc

[@romankeller314]

I hear that Casino Park theme, Enter. Just letting you know that I appreciate it.

[@darkvioletcloud]

Sonic Heroes is such an underrated game.

[@romankeller314]

@@darkvioletcloud One of my childhood favorites.

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

I watch a certain other KZbinr that really likes Grand Metropolis