Anne and Ann | Gentleman Jack | s02e08 | Break up

[@clarencemae6767]

I love the paradox in the first episode (when AW is painting while AL is observing her from afar and being thoroughly inlove), and this scene. This season showed the reality of marriage. It shows how in the early phase of a marriage, everything seems bright and beautiful. However, as time goes by, they will each uncover the things that could make them fall out of love. They will hate each other. They will question each other's motives and value. At the end they will decide, amidst all these differences and hatred, if they would stay for each other. The last part of this episode makes it clear how powerful commitment is. At some point in a relationship, you would think that life would be much easier if you would end a relationship. But love isn't suppose to be easy. Love is not for the weak. Love goes beyond romance. And through time love go hand in hand with commitment. Thus, more than love, commitment for each other is what made AL and AW together.

[@antjec327]

Jes

[@lynnlRDR-RDR2]

Well said

[@kimlinden2280]

And, mix in the mental health issues that created doubt and lack of confidence in Walker, which poses challenges in relationships. She was "up and down" a lot during the marriage due to that.

[@idap8034]

I think Anne’s problem is that, yes, she does want Ann to be happy, but she tries to do so in The wrong way. She tries to make Ann happy in way, that would bring Anne herself happiness, instead of actually listen to what Ann wants and what makes her happy.

[@ameetee9851]

It’s not Anne’s problem. Ann W is a disaster, if she’s not happy on her own, I’m afraid that’s too much responsibility for Anne L. Ann W is really frustrating me just watching this. I feel like she’s emotionally assaulting Anne L at this point.

[@kimlinden2280]

@@ameetee9851 Her mental health issues caused doubts to pop up when she was less "stable". Back in those days, women did not get proper treatment.

[@mayling141]

Every relationship needs a "breaking up", it will shine a new perspective on life 😅

[@andrearenee7845]

I believe the acting in this series is gripping, and quite entertaining. Just wished that Ms. Lister didn't have that same arrogance as her male counter parts. The way she treated her own sister is quite hypocritical to say the least. No Compassion begets that... Money can turn anyone into a desperate creature..

[@kimlinden2280]

In those times, social status was important to maintain. And, the social status Lister had worked hard for is what gave her the agency and protection to lead a highly subversive personal lesbian life. She actually loved her sister and thought that the sister's beau was interested in gaining access to Shibden.

[@torakunoichi]

Okay but lister saying I would sell ahi den is massive for her, her ancestral home is one of THE most precious things to her (other than Ann)

[@StrawberryMilkkTeaa]

It’s sad that the real Anne Lister never truly loved Ann Walker the same way that Anne Walker loved her. She cared about her, I’m sure she was infatuated with her, and perhaps loved her in her own way as a friend, but she wasn’t in love. Anne Lister was quite a disappointment and have let me down once I’ve learned of her true character and the real reason for her choosing to be with Ann Walker. It’s heartbreaking that their love story wasn’t as romantic and genuine as it’s portrayed in this series but I love the series all the same.

[@kimlinden2280]

In reading much of the diaries that have been published, I think Lister's love for Walker shines through. She was desperate for a companion to spend evenings with and she writes, in multiple ways, about falling in love. And, the diaries have zero evidence of her cheating on Walker after the ceremony. In fact, she writes that she acted with propriety on the visit with Mariana portrayed in the show. That was some creative license. I don't think Lister would have stuck with Walker, through all her ups and downs with mental illness, if there wasn't deep love.

[@rhyfeddu]

😯🥺 the angst!

[@TalairanPerigord]

Anne Lister undoing her stock...I would have to choose another moment to break up with her. *fans self*

[@annecast8538]

Interesante que AW esté atenta a su estabilidad económica, si se hubiera casado con un hombre le hubiera tocado la suerte de su hermana, pero AL hace su parte quiere su derecho de esposa.

[@lshen914]

This breaks my heart

[@christophe5076]

Magnifique série ♥️😘

[@Alex-pm8wr]

Ahhhh, if Anne Lister sold Shibden Hall, where would her father, her aunt Anne, and her sister live?

[@evaperez4139]

They have other properties but smaller house.

[@thegayestgay]

The “Market Wheaton” property seems to be the 2nd best.

[@kimlinden2280]

They have quite a lot of properties on their land and own businesses in the town, as well. And, places farther away, such as Market Wheaton which was, I think, about 60 miles away. Her sister lived there off and on.

[@zeeskyte]

So sad that AW does not remember what she said on the hill, when she wanted Anne to ask her to marry her. Of course, that scene was 'creative' as well ie not exactly what really happened.

[@leagalindo21]

Thanks for the clips can you please put up the Sutherland clips

[@aralilo2798]

it seems that Ann is leaving shibden, later in the episode she says to Capitan southerland that Anne lister has nothing to do with the matter couse she is going back to crown nest, but at the end they are still talking about changing their wills... so I am confused, are they ok now or are they breaking up? 😅

[@nau8111]

I think they just having calm down periods at this clip, and still loving each other so the last scene AW said go to York on Monday. Not break up tho

[@kimlinden2280]

Walker's mental illness led to up and down periods, depression and doubts. But, they were typically temporary and resolved themselves.

[@nau8111]

Is this breaking up part AL written in her secret diaries?

[@annecast8538]

No, it is not written that way, in her diaries AL implied that the dynamic of the relationship with AW remained that way until she died, discussions about money that generated emotional problems for both, Anne due to impotence and Ann due to insecurity . In the end, only Anne's death separated them.

[@kimlinden2280]

@@annecast8538 Mental illness issues resulted in temporary doubts within Walker and lack of confidence, at times.

[@herecomesthesun21]

I think Anne Lister is exploiting and manipulating Ann Walker and isn't really a good person at all, very selfish. She throws around money and would be ready to sell Shibden Hall if necessary. Well what about her family who lives there? She doesn't seem to care about them at all. The show is not about love but more about selfishness and clever manipulation. I know relationships aren't perfect, but this isn't the way they should be. I don't see real love here.

[@jupiter9881]

The family has multiple properties besides the one they are living in. Anne L. may spend money recklessly, but she is also the only one in the family attempting to grow money through taking some risks.

[@kimlinden2280]

If you read much of the diaries, love is present. Walker benefited greatly from this relationship. Her family would have had her in an institution much earlier. Lister expanded her life, gave her some freedom to travel and experience things. Lister loved her Aunt dearly. By the time she would have had to sell Shibden, if necessary, her Aunt and father would have been deceased. And, her sister was already living at one of their other nice properties, Market Wheighton. Lister, in her time period, was similar to nearly all husbands then. One handles more of the money. And, even with modern couples, it's true that one spouse is usually more involved in managing money than the other. I see people do similar spending and manipulation these days. Such as, one spouse wants to spend money on an expensive boat or motorcycle and tries to convince the other spouse. Any couple, if examining their marriage, would have these kinds of "persuasion" pop up, at times, trying to convince the other of one thing or another.

[@beatrice5772]

Well this can't be good...

[@lizziem1284]

Just wondering if anyone knows if this is historically accurate?

[@wavydezy]

No it’s not, they stayed together until Anne’s untimely death in 1840... although (not to burst ur bubble) it’s highly believed that their marriage was an unhappy one bc Anne was still in love with Mariana

[@morelight1]

They stayed together, but they often struggled. Ann W continued to have mental health challenges, and sometimes AL was on the verge of giving up.

[@mhawang8204]

More often Ann Walker would cry about not being interesting enough and Anne would leave her and so on… She struggled with mental illness her whole life. Anne tried to prop her up but it got exhausting. They did stay together but it was always a struggle with constant fights and make-ups.

[@kalijohnston561]

it is. of course we don't fully know what went on behind close doors outside of what Anne wrote in her journal, but they were definitely somewhat on-and-off and health with conflicts, even though they ultimately stayed together

[@kimlinden2280]

@@wavydezy In the diaries, Anne frequently writes about no longer liking Mariana. It seems like Mariana had changed and she no longer had appeal. There is no evidence of cheating after the marriage ceremony either. The show added that in for drama. In the diaries, Lister does write about frustrations over the days when Walker does not get out of bed, for example, due to her depression. But, they stayed committed and they both continued to write lovingly about each other in both of their journals.

[@raya4599]

miss anne lister royally fucking up

[@kimlinden2280]

Walker's mental health issues and depression caused her to have up and down periods and doubts, which played a role off and on.

[@tcc8696]

Anne Lister was not in love Ann W. I only idealize a relationship. :(

[@kimlinden2280]

She certainly writes in her diaries, multiple times, about falling in love with her. It was not always easy, and sometimes impatient, with the mental illness and depression issues popping up at times.

[@laminage]

Was Ann Walker Bipolar

[@kimlinden2280]

She seems to be. There were definitely some religious mania times and depression, off an on. Lister was very physically active and some days Walker would not get out of bed. Lister's patience was frequently tested on the days when Walker stayed in bed.

[@Catseye189]

Internalized homophobia

[@kimlinden2280]

Her mental illness (depression and religious issues) resulted in temporary doubts that resolved, off an on.

[@leyang1000]

💔💔💔

[@jasminefrichtl806]

So sad

[@antjec327]

I dont know. ...

[@dancewomyn1]

Walker's erratic behavior is infuriating!!

[@evaperez4139]

We know that Ann walker at 19 years old suffered alot. Her parents death then her sister married leaving her alone to sneaky relatives. Treating and making her feel useless. The worst was done to Ann W. And that Anne L purpose in the beginning was to romance her inheritance. Not knowing that Ann was crushing her since her teen years. 168 years later , there are still women being abused and blamed. To me Ann Walker was trying to a be assertive which was encouraged by Anne Lister. By this point of the story/ Anne Lister cheated.

[@hosper-md3nx]

she has all the reason to be erratic here

[@inasez]

Anne L has behaved deceitfully, condescendingly and patronizingly thru out the relationship. Ann W has EVERY reason to feel uneasy about them being together. Anne L's whining about being misunderstood all the time can only travel so far.

[@kimlinden2280]

@@inasez The show added in the cheating for drama. That is not from the diaries. No evidence of cheating in the journals of either woman after the marriage ceremony.

[@kimlinden2280]

@@inasez In what ways do you think she was deceitful. In the diaries, they talk about things a lot and Lister is pretty straightforward. When they were first getting to know each other, neither one revealed things about their prior sexual experience. The diary has no evidence of cheating mentioned after the marriage. I am curious to know what other examples you think are indicators of being deceitful? Lister does, at times, intentionally try to "pump up" Walker's confidence when she is depressed and having mental issues; but, I see that more as trying to cope with her mental down days rather than patronizing. When did Lister whine about being misunderstood? Are you referring to when she repeats things she has explained before?