Annoying TF2 Weapons (And Their Combos)

[@pangake]

one of the most annoying parts about tf2 are the shadows that phase through walls and reveal your position if youre close enough to a thin wall.

[@godusopp1797]

And that your gun can poke through thin walls too, including spawn doors/shutters, so an enemy you're camping can see you before you get to see them ... well actually in that situation it is kinda balanced But it isn't when your model's limbs & hitbox can also phase through walls, best example is Scout wielding his pistol, because his whole hand clips through spawn doors a Sniper can kill him with a charged bodyshot

[@PoutyBun]

This is precisely why I never turn off shadows in my configs, lmao

[@Fake5ape]

@@godusopp1797 spawn doors have one way windows

[@godusopp1797]

@@Fake5ape Some do, but I don't see how people would feel pretty strong about that

[@StickMaster500]

The most annoying is any Sniper that has Highlander aim and can kill you regardless of distance

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

highlander aim (cheats)

[@milkydoesstuff1828]

Fat magic moment

[@alface935]

@@milkydoesstuff1828 True

[@nekipeh7373]

"Bloody quicskope users"

[@Nkb3283]

Yeah, honestly I’d like to see sniper have less reserve ammo and a slower firing speed and that should solve 95% of his issues (also rework the bushwacka)

[@godusopp1797]

-Sees Video title -Knows exactly what weapon will be covered -Sees the Pyro's chapter length -Knows precisely what will be covered

[@Whomobile]

you get what you expected

[@ShaggyToad1]

Fun fact about Phlog, back when it came out, it used to fully heal pyros. Now that sounds fun to deal with.

[@Barthallis]

True but it didn't give you the Uber effect, it just healed you. So you could kill a taunting Pyro if they were doing it out in the open or just around a corner

[@TunbosunOyenuga]

Yea but Pyros at that time were just easy targets that were taunting in a middle of a crowd. They either got backstabbed, sticky trapped or mow down by a heavy.

[@Lone-Nep]

@@Barthallis Except you had a 75% damage resistance while taunting on top of instant full heal during that time, outside of backstabs/sticky traps it wasn't that simple.

[@Barthallis]

@@Lone-Nep Regardless of that, you were still killable. It was difficult but still doable

[@freetoplayking7362]

Here's another fun fact, they added the uber effect at the tough break update, then removed the healing when they realized the kind of horror they'd created since you could no longer exploit its weakness of taunting while activating it to mow the enemy down

[@RichterOvertime]

the natascha is my favorite for dealing with annoying trolldiers it just completely ruins their day and almost always makes them switch off or even leave the server

[@sackboy1665]

fun fact: due to the huntsman arrow being a projectile, and thus using the bonding box to detect hits, whenever you hit the game moves the arrow forward a little bit and then teleports it to the nearest hitbox, and sense there are no hitboxs above the player's head, hitting anywhere above it cause it to be counted as a headshot. TLDR: Huntsman arrows have magnets attached to them due to source spaghetti.

[@TheMadalucard]

Theres another reason to pick Detonator over Scorch, with the Scorch you either gotta hit a person or have it land near people to do anything, the detonator you can pick and choose anywhere you want it to explode with some pretty simple practice. Once you get used to it the Scorch starts feeling genuinely worse to use.

[@cristianovogt5586]

That would be true if the Scorch Shot didn't have a slightly faster projectile speed, a slightly bigger blast radius, and could hit enemies through thin walls with his explosion on surfaces.

[@menacingpyro2005]

@@cristianovogt5586 hitting enemies behind walls takes a lot of timing, precision, and aim. If it didn’t, everyone would use it like everyone uses the scorch shot. Detonator is just the better flare gun over the scorch shot but it takes more skill to use so the non-noobs use it. So yeah. OP’s statement would be true if not for your points and the fact that the detonator relies more on skill rather than spam. But the scorch shot will always be beaten out by detonator if you’re looking for mobility and damage. Detonator is way better for mobility because of the bigger jumps.

[@cristianovogt5586]

@@menacingpyro2005 The whole damage would be true...if we consider the fact that with the bouncing flare of the Scorch Shot, despite having smaller damage and only doing Mini-crits. Both the flare hit and its bounce with explosion deal over 109 damage while giving full afterburn and dealing mini crit damage in the process, making it so you can 1 shoot light classes with a single flare and it out-damages ALL the other flare guns when it comes to single damage shots. Pretty there is just NO reason to not use the Scorch Shot over the Detonator unless you really love those Flare jumps.

[@menacingpyro2005]

@@cristianovogt5586 fair. But it’s quite easy to dodge, too unless it’s hitting the ground and catching you in the blast radius, you can quite easily strafe out of the way especially if you’re a scout or a pyro or some other fast class. Without mid-air detonations it’s not as easy to catch strafe happy scouts on fire from a range. But I will give the scorch shot credit where it’s due, it has a hidden mechanic that lets you instantly kill off all sticky bombs in its blast radius so it’s good at getting rid of sticky traps. That’s what I mainly use it for when I’m not using a combo pyro loadout.

[@TunbosunOyenuga]

@@cristianovogt5586 the initial hit is 20 and lingering flare that minicrit does 26. So the minicrit damage it self is nothing more 6 damage because with the mincrit it just another 20 damage. So that 46 damage from getting from contact damage. Getting hit once from the Scorch Shot only give you 7.5 secs of afterburn (60 damage). Another hit with get you to the afterburn cap 10 secs (80 dmg). So it either 106 damage or 126 damage. Total damage can kill a light class but who gonna wait around for full afterburn of 10 secs kill them. Especially when the falling flare can be dodged by all. Also, if people going to complain about afterburn from the Scorch Shot... why not the other flares also even if they didnt have the chance to kill you... Because it just another way to complain about a weapon that easy to counter in a game that give multiple tools to extinguish afterburn, making the damage from afterburn volatile.

[@legdig]

I am proud to be part of the demoknight problem. I want to learn the scariest trimps in the game. "you have health. unfortunately for you, slight angle surface"

[@PurpleColonel]

I still have no idea how you're expected to fight soldier at all in this game. 4 massive chunks of damage he doesn't need to aim, second highest health pool and infinite mobility.

[@Whomobile]

Pyro Reflect but also yes Soldier is pretty beefy in general

[@sparrowanon]

​@@Whomobile **Laughs in Direct Hit**

[@PurpleColonel]

@@Whomobile Spy can't reflect :(

[@Pvinini]

agree, soldier can do anything.

[@EpicGamerScout]

KZbin already ate this comment while I was trying to type it for the first time so I'll summarize, but here's a small rant about soldier's weaknesses that will hopefully help anyone reading: General tips: Soldier only 'doesnt have to aim' if you're fighting him at a close-midrange, which is definitely his preferred distance. Most tips for dealing with soldier would probably be to respect that range and do what you can from outside it, or to rush him so fast that you're up in his face and doing your own damage just as fast if you judge that you can get the kill first. He also only has 4 chunks of damage and the 2nd highest health pool if he entirely avoids using that 'infinite mobility', so if you keep in mind that tradeoff you can usually get a bit more of an advantage. Any rockets he spends just trying to close the distance and get to his preferred range/position will put him in a relatively exposed position in the air, give him less rockets to shoot at you, and take some damage&time that you still get to move and shoot at him. If you can correctly guess where he is going to jump to, then by the time he's arriving you can be working on making that position not even worth it(Hiding around a different corner, getting somewhere higher, etc) Matchups: Scout - You have the best ability to pick your fights and using that is crucial to surviving soldier. He wants to fight you at a close enough range that he hits 2-3 easy rockets at your feet for the kill, so try juking a lot left-to-right to throw off his leading. You run so fast that he may very well miss his entire clip. And if you mix in jumps, any close hits he does get will send you flying away to who knows where, which is likely to make his next shot or two even harder to hit. Those tips honestly work as any class with decent movespeed, but you have to be further away than scout to take best advantage. Alternatively, run in REALLY close and jump like a madman while landing meat shots. He does a lot of damage but if you jump at the right time you minimize that, while he CAN'T dodge bullets, so if timed right you can bully him surprisingly well. Soldier - Taking the high ground is obviously best, either by rocket jumping straight at them to try quickly landing a good 2-3 rockets or to land somewhere the other soldier can't easily aim at your feet while you can do so. Pyro - Reflect and yolo towards him. This is practice and intuition more than anything I could give good tips for, but soldiers either fall into one of two camps. If he fires as fast as he can(on a predictable delay), you will have an easier time landing reflects and can hopefully punish him hard. If he mixes it up and tries adding random waits between his rocket firings, that's time he isn't doing anything while you're still hopefully running toward him. If you can predict the moment he will give in to the pressure and fire that next rocket, you've won. Demo - Mostly just the skill of projectiles. Battalion's Backup or overhealed soldier will take 3 grenades which can be difficult, but if he is running anything else then 2 grenades WILL kill him, while he probably needs 2-4 rockets to kill you. His rockets fall off but your direct grenades do NOT, so distance is key. Or treat it like scout where your meatshots are projectiles and get wacky with your own movement on the approach. Can be tough, but its definitely a skill and positioning matchup that you have the advantage in for the most part. Edit: Fix dumb math. Heavy - You flip the dynamic around, wanting to be close to soldier while soldier wants to shoot from further away around obstacles. You don't really have good tools to get close, but you also take a lot of rockets for him to kill if he is truly hiding far away. Running away to bait him around a corner could be a fun way to catch him off guard with tomislav/shotgun/pootis if he is committed to killing you. And if he's just hiding back and firing at you, treat him like a sentry that might need some team support to help you push through. You do decently deny his rocket jumping threat though, with him needing all the rockets he can get to properly kill you(and then escape) and never wanting to end up too close with you still alive. Really map dependent, but you are thicc and with team support soldier has to hope for a crit. Engineer - Watch the Uncle Dane matchups vid he honestly says more than I can. Short circuit is good for the 1v1 with no buildings, but yeah its rough. Medic - Hope your teammate is good, but also you have the 2nd highest movement speed in the game to play with. If you can surf the explosion from the soldier shooting at you, you'll likely have much better odds of dodging the follow up while team cleans him up. And if the soldier focuses your teammates, just do your best to keep them healed with clutch bolts and medibeam. If you can outlast soldier's clip before your teammate is dead, he mostly loses any chance of finishing the job now that he is firing even slower&predictably while you heal at the same consistent speed. Sniper - Good luck. If soldier is rocket jumping at your face, your best bet is to accept that your fate is up to a melee-range brawl and jarate-bushwack 'em. If he's standing further away, it's down to landing the clutch headshot. Spy - Bad idea, probably just cloak and catch one of his other teammates. If you can damage surf away while cloaking, you'll have the best bet at slipping away from the soldier even if he really wants to try catching you. 2nd highest movespeed tied with medic means that running away is legitimately a good counter depending on your position.

[@chickenitza8]

For me it's these engineers who know just the right spot to put a level 3 wrangled sentry nest that just grinds the entire match to a halt until someone deals with them. 6000 hour snipers that play like bots really get me too.

[@iddsmedingus]

"Slowdown effects do not work well in tf2" I'd say they do, since you know, the natascha was added because of soldiers and demos melting servers on mobility alone, same with sandman stun (Which is why it removed your ability to use weapons so you couldn't just immediately rocket/sticky jump away gun down the 110 hp scout running at you)

[@jnet124]

they 100% do, anything to shut down stupid demoknights and trolldiers.

[@Agustinp-sd5ii]

Makes you wonder what was added after that Valve decided to remove the stun and the community decided to start hating the Natascha

[@FlickazSwag]

sandman is completely useless nowadays

[@Magmadu100]

I like how pretty much all of the sniper primaries tick off 2/3 of the requirements to be annoying for you lol And I agree!

[@Whomobile]

pretty much lol

[@jermasus]

“Pulling an elmaxo” shall be my favorite insult now

[@TKsh1]

You can just play stock Sniper and that's already a pain to play against, let alone with his hilarious unlocks that deny his weakness. Spy's Kunai and Dead Ringer makes an weak class just as overpowered as Sniper without any counterplay.

[@stratacat]

Bro I hope you know for a spy to make kunai and dr work you need to put at least 500 hours on spy

[@ME0WMERE]

kunai and deadringer absolutely do _not_ make spy overpowered you have to be extremely skilled to be a serious threat to the enemy team, but the same can be said for literally any other class

[@yuwomy]

The thing that makes the kunai overpowered is oblivious teammates

[@ME0WMERE]

@@yuwomy but...wouldn't that make literally any other loadout on any other class overpowered? or at least much better

[@what982]

​@@ME0WMERE i wouldn't say that, mostly because the kunai allows you to constantly get free health from oblivious enemies and basically tell anyone smart enough to chase you to get fucked

[@thatguybrody4819]

the pomson is a "good on paper bad in practice" weapon. the stats make it seem like it should be an annoying weapon to fight against but in practice it only annoys the user. the projectile is too slow to use properly and trying to lead shots just seems impossible because of just how slow it is. it also feels like the hitbox for it is smaller as whenever i think shots should have hit they don't.

[@iminumst7827]

True, same thing applies to the Bison and Syringe Guns, they just have projectiles that are too slow to ever be reliable.

[@thatguybrody4819]

@@iminumst7827 the syringe guns have a different problem. they are fast enough, they just seem to phase through the hitbox more often than hitting. it's painful to see 5 syringes pass completely through a heavy.

[@Nepinta]

I always thought the Diamondback was annoying because it just rewards you with crits for doing general spy stuff.

[@Whomobile]

I was thinking about putting the Diamondback in but I havn't seen it used much lately.

[@nyxo7]

​@@Whomobilebeacause it's same as scorch shot, if you don't use it, It's just because to respect yourself, And also because playing spy is about showing everyone that you're better then them

[@stratacat]

@@nyxo7 This is true, I know some well known spies and this is what every1 thinks, its better to run stock or ambi if you are good

[@greenoftreeblackofblue6625]

Sandman combo was the king of annoying combos now it's the king of crippling yourself

[@JeffarryLounder]

It was also my favourite combo of all time. RIP my beloved.

[@mmmy4282]

A list of maps that I think would be interesting to see you cover in Weird Maps! 1 - Growing Map (Started off tiny but the author kept adding in new rooms suggested by comments on the workshop page.) 2 - gm_gmall (Really well made map full of fun little secrets.) 3 - de_apehouse (Absolute classic map. There is also a Christmas version that's quite nice.) 4 - GMod13_Hotels (My absolute favorite, just so interesting to explore. Would really love to see a longer video looking over this one.) 5 - gm_novenka (Has a similar feeling to gm_mobenix_v3. Really big sandbox map sorta deal.) 6 - supersizeroom_v2 (Another classic map, just a wonderful relic of Source.) 7 - HomeTown 1999 (Really comfy map of a small town, has a bunch of shops and stuff like that to explore.) 8 - sb_omen_v2 (Spacebuild map where you can explore each planet in our solar system, plus there's an end goal to go for. Can't forget that there's a few secrets around the map as well.) 9 - gm_liminal_hotel (A map that's a recreation of a real hotel that's gotten posted around a lot because of the whole "Liminal spaces" thing. Outside of the liminal aspect it's definitely an interesting map.) 10 - gm_goldencity_v2 (Similar to something like gm_bigcity, just a very large city map to explore except with a pretty rad look to it all.) 11 - Not a single map, more an idea for a whole video. A video looking over every version of gm_construct would definitely be interesting. A pack of every version called gm_construct history was uploaded to the workshop a little while back. 12 - gm_maze (The name says it's a maze, but it's more like a LOT of rooms that each lead into different ones. And every room has a completely different design to it.) 13 - Aurora Mansion, the file name is koth_aurora_mansion_v5finalest (A map made for redsun.tf and of course its packed with lovely little details and a lot of random fun stuff around. And outside of that it's just an overall beautiful tf2 map.) 14 - Slave of GMod (Not really a map but more of a custom gamemode based on the game Hotline Miami. It was originally made as a response to Valve allowing people to charge for workshop mods.) 15 - Growing Map 2 (A sequel to the original Growing Map, though this time there's a story in it apparently.) 16 - gm_MountainResort (A pretty damn huge map of exactly what it sounds like. Loads to explore and interact with. Though there is a few issues with it. FIrst off it's VERY resource intensive, plus it may be a bit too refined for the weird maps series.) 17 - gm_lonegrass (An edit of gm_flatgrass but with a bunch of changes. Definitely gives off a classic source mapping feeling) 18 - phys_dmm_house (A total classic map. A small house with a living room, a kitchen, an office, and a little balcony. And it's all also completely destructible. Every single part of the house can be destroyed however you want. It's definitely not big enough for a whole video but it would definitely be good if you're looking at multiple in one upload.)

[@Whomobile]

wow, thanks for the list! I think I have a few of these saved in my "maps to cover" list

[@rainger-76]

For demoman/demoknight, the Scotsman's Skullcutter on any server with random crits enabled is very annoying

[@lilacocto9103]

I will admit, I remember when the Pomson 6000 was actually usable and was truly the annoying weapon it's described as here.

[@Rodrigo-kq3js]

why use the cow mangler when you can just shoot more than 1 rocket?

[@Waylon128]

Honestly people just overreact with the Phlog and the Scorch Shot. They've been the same way for the last 8 years so I really think people need to get over it. They're fine weapons, and everyone needs to stop complaining.

[@iminumst7827]

Today ran into a Vacc hacker. Never saw anything like it before. Med had esp and a script to pop the perfect resistances. I'd flank behind them as Pyro and he'd pop fire resistance before he even turned around and saw me. He'd pop bullet resistance the frame I would switch to shotgun every time. At first I thought he was just good, but the more I tried to flank the more I realized he was locked onto my position through walls. The most annoying thing in TF2 in general is med diff. If your team has no meds and their team has 2, it's ggs. While medics don't often get kills, there's no doubt they are the most powerful class in the game. If I were to make a balance changes, I would make it so medics cannot overheal each other. This would make running multiple medics less oppressively good without introducing any dumb class limits. I think a similar change to nerf class stacking would be to make it so healing friendly buildings as Engineer is 50% less effective. Engineer stacking is pretty broken on certain map points. Also I feel like you should have included the diamondback. It's way too easy to rack up crit charges and does more damage than even an ambassador headshot. Most Spies including myself don't run it just because it feels too dirty. But trust me, it's probably the meanest unlock in the game. It's Spy's phlog.

[@princetbug]

true. Kunai DR is pretty unbalanced, but the Diamondback on its own is straight up unfair in general.

[@thediam0nddrag0n78]

Fun fact: The Kunai cures all status effects upon backstabs. You could ignite a spy and get them to low health, only to have them backstab a sniper and get their health back while also curing afterburn

[@muxfun4766]

It is worth noting that your eternal reward does not work as it should, since it only drowns out the deathscream, but the sound of the stab is still audible.

[@OlaftheGreat]

Pissed off a spy who thought I was hacking when in reality I was wearing headphones and heard the knife swish. He insisted it was silent. It was not.

[@muxfun4766]

@@OlaftheGreat When playing spy, be prepared for the fact that you can be heard.

[@syntheticblood2071]

I've always just seen the scorch shot as a crutch detonator, I feel like the detonator is better at everything the scorch shot does if you can actually time your flares.

[@martinmarzano1523]

>Hates Demoknight >Loves the Natasha You don't get to complain when you enjoying an obnoxious weapon.

[@what982]

a good demoknight is genuinely both terrifying and annoying to fight against, gotta use whatever you can to fuck em over

[@martinmarzano1523]

@@what982 skill issue

[@what982]

@@martinmarzano1523 your mother

[@blitzkrieg2928]

0:31 let's hope not

[@PajamaPantsStudios]

You say that about troldiers, but I have never been as upset during a game of 5cp than when a jumpy troll is soaring through our backlines picking off our respawning teammates. I can’t even call it spawn camping, because he’s always on the move.

[@Whomobile]

That sounds like a team skill issue tbh

[@robuxyyyyyyyyyy4708]

1:24 Glass wasp?

[@MillywiggZ]

Urgh. A wasp *and* being transparent. What a hellscape. *URGH*

[@Whomobile]

Glass cannon aka easy to kill but also can kill easy

[@robuxyyyyyyyyyy4708]

​@@MillywiggZ Also glass shards when killed

[@robuxyyyyyyyyyy4708]

​@@Whomobile I was trying to give a name to annoying glass cannon

[@Whomobile]

ahh k

[@CasuallyVocal]

Critting me in the feels with the Actraiser tunes man. Why you gotta do me like that?! xD

[@Whomobile]

I have a almost Rainman like knowledge of fitting SNES music for some reason

[@averylangs]

The turtles in time music made me do a double check when i heard it, what a great OST!

[@misterjersey5460]

Cleaner's Carbine + Bushwaka is such a underrated combo.

[@normalhumanperson8858]

Is that... Unreal Tournament 1 OST? Jesus, that threw me back.

[@Royal_Khlcken]

4:31 you could also add the pyro shark weapon so they can't even go into water

[@ActualKuma]

I think the major issue with scorch phlog is more the with the scorch shot. I think phlog is pretty balanced, it's just very annoying when the phlog pyro is also under uber charge.

[@ActualKuma]

Maybe if they change the phlog so you can't be under the effect of uber when using mmph like you can't when holding the Intel might work

[@nseven1117]

being a scout/pyro main who also plays engineer a lot, the one weapon I hate the most is the direct hit. especially if the soldier isn't even far away, he's using the thing point black hence removing any challenge or skill required for the weapon.

[@mastery_egg7071]

And point black range gets the most damage ramp up

[@soupedcan3532]

ur deliveries on some of ur lines in this are incredible. banger video

[@Whomobile]

Thanks!

[@nerdcuddles7731]

Scorch shot would be more balanced if 1:It didn't knockback 2:it only splashed on the bouncing flare

[@LyritZian]

If it didn't cause knockback, it would be missing its main utility compared to the Detonator. With your proposal, there'd be no reason to use the Scorch Shot _at all_ except for the fact you would _sometimes_ hit the same person twice. Respect weapon's niches and distinctions or else everything because homogenized.

[@spaceghost566]

Man you dont know how many times I've been hit by the Your Eternal Reward and being like "Im dead! I want people to know im dead!" Also, that backstabbing sound is so unsatisfying. Really annoying weapon!

[@hebruixe9125]

don't forget stock sniper rifle, and all of its unlocks

[@mistadip42]

I think it would be cool if using the wrangler made your sentry vulnerable to crits, making the kritzcrieg a viable counter

[@spiritfox123]

This may be a hot take, but the Phlog on its own isn't that annoying to fight against. The lack of airblast really just puts Pyro at the mercy of Soldiers and Demos, not to mention Heavy is already a good counter to Pyro. That said, I would still change the Phlog so that Flair guns can't charge the mmmph meter and Medics can't make the Pyro invulerable via uber while its equipped, like trying to uber someone carrying the intel in CTF. And maybe nerf the full crits to minicrits. The Scorch Shot is really what makes Phlog Pyros annoying af. At least with the Detonator you actually have to time the explosion to hit a whole group of enemies, with the Scorch Shot you just need to hit the ground around them. My way of rebalancing the Scorch Shot would be to make it like the Loch n' Load, where the flare would travel faster but fizzle on impact of anything that isn't a player and explode when hitting a player, making it so you actually have to aim and effectively removing the ability to flare jump with it. I would also remove the knockback and secondary flare explosion. Also as a side note: The Detonator is actually more powerful than the Scorch Shot, it's just harder to use. Another really annoying weapon for Pyro is the Thermal Thruster. Pyro didn't need, nor should he have gotten that level of mobility. This is coming from a Pyro main too, screw Scorch Shot and Thermal Thruster users. Sure, the Vaccinator is kind of annoying to fight against if the medic is competent, but it's the only skill-based Medigun. 90% of the time I see someone using it they have no idea how to switch resistances, 5% of the remaining time they know how to switch resistances but not when, and the last 5% is someone who's actually competent with it. The Bushwacka is easy to avoid, literally just stay our of melee range. I very rarely die to Jarate/Bushwacka because of how easy it is to just stay out of melee range. The only class that can consistently die to that combo is Spy, and even then he has a pretty reliable revolver. The amount of situations where the ability to recharge the Jarate would be useful are so few in number that I can only think of one: Getting spawn camped. Overall, Jarate is just such a meh secondry and there are easily better choices like the SMG or Cozy Camper. Speaking of, the Sniper you actually have to watch out for is the one running the Cozy Camper who'll quick scope your face even if you get close. As for the Huntsman... You can make literally any projectile luck based if you don't know how to aim it and just spam. With that said, the fact that the arrow will teleport to the closest hitbox as long as it hits the players bounding box is a huge meme but has caused me to miss more headshots that its given me headshots that should have counted as a bodyshot. I more or less agree with all the other weapons/classes you talked about, but would add the Tomislav. There's nothing more annoying than a heavy sitting around a corner revved up waiting for some unsuspecting sucker to walk by simply because the silent rev up allows them to do it. Not to mention its much tighter spread, near instant rev up, and its damage is basically on par with stock. Yes I know that if a stock Heavy and Tomislav Heavy start shooting eachother at the same time stock wins, but not by a significant enough margin. Engineer in general is just annoying to fight against, as well.

[@freetoplayking7362]

Here's a cold take, scorch shot is perfect for countering demo traps in exchange for being weaker than the detonator, and the tough break update phlog is made up of nightmares mixed with the essence of five puppy kickers

[@spiritfox123]

@@freetoplayking7362 Detonator can destroy stickies too. fuck the Scorch Shot.

[@freetoplayking7362]

@@spiritfox123 wait really? Huh, didn't know that I'm sticking to scorch shot since it's more useful for spawn camping demos that detonate as soon as the gate opens (i.e. not enough time to detonate the detonator without dying)

[@spiritfox123]

@@freetoplayking7362 Understandable. It's definitely a lot harder to delete stickies with the detonator and spawn camping Demos are one of the only reasons I'll equip the SS myself.

[@NightmareLyra]

IMO Phlog isn't that bad to counter if I just go Soldier or Demoman against the bastard, the lack of airblast is lethal if you manage to catch them off-guard at a distance

[@elithris]

Jarate and Mad Milk I'm 99% sure were meant to function like the gas passer eventually but valve never got around to it

[@goony124]

for the Demoman part I think the loose cannon could be counted because you can annoy people by spamming the balls at them and knocking them around. Despite this I really like using the loose cannon.

[@EpicGamerScout]

Already wrote my soldier manifesto in that one other comment, but for a small bonus tip that doesn't fit there: The vaccinator's damage bubble is actually weakened significantly by pyro flames(Specifically flamethrowers, not flareguns). The vac is still annoying in many situations. But for anyone wondering how to scrape every last bit of advantage out of the encounter, tagging them with flames will leave them taking 40% normal damage instead of 25%, and lower the healing delivered by 20% as well. Not enough to guarantee the kill of course, but if the enemy is getting cocky with their invulnerability to your teammates, running at them W+M1 not only forces a bubble to be wasted on fire, but also makes the bullet/explosion bubbles worse until you're dealt with.

[@ss2gora0]

Demoknights were too powerful in 2015 when everything critted, shield bashes, swords, it was truly op. then Valve fixed them in Tough Break. and boy was it welcomed.

[@nfwrambo]

The greatest and potentially most annoying weapon is the paranoia you can cause as a spy

[@ΒασιληςΛυπηριδης-φ4κ]

As a Pyro fan, I will not apologize for using the Scorch Shot.

[@homesquared]

Rocket jumping when there's a gunslinger Engineer hiding his mini-sentry in some funny sentry spot can be annoying

[@gabriel_linf]

I feel like you forgot to talk about 4 weapons in particular that are especially annoying to fight agaisnt, 3 from Demo, 1 from Spy: The Loose Cannon: It feels pretty disorienting to be knocked around by the cannonballs, and that is especially true when you're a uber medic combo trying to push in, but that Loose Cannon Demo just woN'T MOVE OUT OF THE WAY for God's sake. It's very similar to pyro's airblast in that regard, but at least it's balanced out by the skill it takes to perform a double donk. The Eyelander: Demos with 4 heads are essentially unkillable, since now they have more health than a soldier, more speed than a scout, and if they're using the right shield, they have even more effective health than a heavy against explosives and fire, which is pretty insane. Not to mention, you can pretty easily negate the only downside the Eyelander has if you just equip the Booties, so now you start at the same health as a regular Demoman, and you can go up to 235, pretty crazy! The Scotsman's Skullcutter: Elmaxo has done a video about the Skullcutter recently and why it benefits immensely by random crits. If you pair this with, say, the Tide Turner, you can have some insane mobility, but on top of that, you can pretty much have guaranteed crits, despite the shield not granting you any, because good GOD, this thing random crits like crazy; this is due to the fact that the chance to random crit increases based on the amount of damage you've done the past few seconds, and also because melee weapons have a naturally higher chance to random crit... And with that 20% damage bonus, you'll be critting people a lot. The Diamondback: The Diamondback is particularly annoying to fight against, as you can obtain those stored crits with it pretty easily by spamming some noob engineer's buildings with a sapper to possibly get up to 4 crits, and also backstabbing people who... Seemingly don't have headphones. Now why doesn't this compare to the Frontier Justice or the Manmelter, you ask? It's because the FJ actually takes effort to build its crits (Building a sentry, getting kills with it, destroying it and managing to USE your crits before dying) and the Manmelter, despite it being very easy to build crits with if there is an enemy pyro using the Scorch Shot, the crits themselves aren't very practical, since you're always better off shooting people at a long range with this thing, but at that rate, why not just use the Scorch Shot. The Diamondback also outclasses every revolver in the game in damage, especially the Ambassador, a weapon that DOES have guaranteed crits, but actually requires you to aim. "Seriously, there's no reason not to use the Diamondback" -FishStickonaStick Anyways, very good video! You've covered the annoying interactions of those weapons very well, keep up the good content.

[@thatguyusee7604]

No sticky/quickie bomb launcher? Getting mindlessly spammed by these on casual drives me crazy and is the main reason I go vacc medic

[@menacingpyro2005]

If I’m honest I’d agree but I have some nitpicks. Honestly I thing the phlog is OK as is, but the scorch shot is what makes it OP, because they were never intended to be put together. But they could both use some rework. Maybe just remove the bouncing flare and the ability to flare jump with it. Big earner is more of a meme weapon, I’d argue that the Diamondback is more annoying to fight against. Edit: comin back, I also wanna say sniper himself is just very annoying to fight, especially as Pyro. The Bazaar Bargain is a shitty win more snowball weapon, it deserves a spot on the list. I also think the deadringer isn’t too annoying to fight against now, especially if you are a pyro. I always get the spy, it’s like double dopamine if I get 2 kills on the same spy when I kill them twice from their dead ringer activation

[@princetbug]

none of the knives really deserve to be on the list, aside from the big combo one.

[@menacingpyro2005]

@@princetbug yeah. The only one I’d say is valid is the Conniver’s Kunai or the YER if your team is shit.

[@CrazyBoris06]

From my experience, I find other players get annoyed when I kill them with the detonator and the dragon's fury. It's due to the detonator being able to have more angles and long range than the scorch shot from the fact the shots detonate. The dragon's fury annoys the people I fight due to me utterly destroying them due to they not finding a good pyro using this gun

[@gorgeous1fangirl]

Sentries are annoying weapons

[@tedisthebest4186]

I love how the scout has the least annoying weapons

[@oliverosmond9859]

“It’s like engineer players forgot it exists”. We didn’t forget. It deserves to be burned in the pits of hell.

[@alphawolf8059]

Being able to run through the Natasha's slowdown effect makes it balanced.

[@sonicmeerkat]

honestly i hate the razor back as a teammate. i swear they just have their audio muted cause the spy can walk right up next to them stab a teammate in front of them and just won't even react. and of course the no overheal, annoying when you're playing medic and you want your snipers to tank a headshot to second scope so you can actually move into a sight line, only for them to keep sniper dueling while i have to kill the spy that killed the damn heavy and soldier. also on the topic of spy's, when they have that damn fronteir justice revolver, literally does the same damage as the ambi with none of the skill, nothing like the kunai deadwringer spy tanking 2 rockets then getting a garanteed crit on you before deadring away to a healthpack, but canceling it immediately to kill a heavy recharging the damn crit.

[@astro4671]

as a soldier and demo main the short circuit is the bane of my existence

[@MillywiggZ]

Anything the Demo Man has is annoying.

[@Whomobile]

he use to be worse, back in the day (mainly 2014ish? but earlier too) air det stickies was the OP meta

[@MillywiggZ]

@@Whomobile Cough, I’m old. Cough. You younglings haven’t seen what I saw. Back then the internet was in black and white.

[@AceCard051]

this dude can make salt seem mellow and i love that

[@contentaccessjr6814]

One of the biggest annoyances I've been killed by is the DIMONDBACK it gives you free crits on a back stab or building sap. Pair that with the dead ringer and the Kuni. You have a menace to society

[@caityreads8070]

the loose cannon is easily the most obnoxious weapon demoman has

[@coodafud]

Most annoying Demo weapon imo is the Iron Bomber. >Misses every shot >Guy walks on rollers and dies anyways.

[@reaproop17]

How could you not include the loose cannon in the demoman category (Also nice egoraptor reference 11:26)

[@MaidofRage420]

Oh the Flying Guillotine and Wrap Assassin combo. I swear I see EVERY Scout using it and it pisses me off to no end. It's the most sweaty loadout for "Those" Scout's.

[@what982]

bleed damage funny

[@TheSixteen60]

This is video that forces to me to take note more than my math class.

[@ActualKuma]

Interesting that you talked about cheap ways of getting crust at the end and didn't mention the diamondback during the spy section

[@plumebrise4801]

Number of unique weapon in TF2 per class : Primary :52 Solly :8 Sniper :7 Scout :6 Demo :6 Engi :6 Pyro :5 Heavy :5 Spy :5 Medic :4 Secondary :56 Solly :10 Pyro :9 Scout :7 Demo :7 Heavy :7 Sniper :6 Medic :4 Engi :3 Spy :3 Melee :58 Pyro :9 Scout :8 Demo :8 Solly :7 Heavy :7 Engi :5 Medic :5 Spy :5 Sniper :4 Total :166 Solly :25 Pyro :23 Scout :21 Demo :21 Heavy :19 Sniper :17 Engi :14 Medic :13 Spy :13

[@KimFareseed]

11:37 With how often its projectile either hits teamates, or gets eaten by windiowframes and slight steps, it becomes a bit too frustrating to use. Having it pass through neatby teamates like other projectiles, as well as raising the projectiles spawn hight just a little would do wonders for it. 14:18 I find it a bit odd that Snipers don't want the Razotback stabed. If they are gona act like they don't have it, why use it.

[@Glauco.gloster2007]

One of the most annoyng thing for a sniper Is a Jetpack phlogistinator pyro on 2fort

[@TABBYMUSIC]

If you use scorch and phlog you hate fun.

[@bananabuns1369]

thanks for reminding me that the sandman is better as scrapmetal than an actual weapon, instead of making it so you can earn the stun by throwing the ball far away instead of very close, it eats your health, and barely does anything! i miss using the atomic punch and sandman.. also buff the manmelter and the cowmangler so they both cant be airblasted, or delete the airblast function, either one works.

[@eltiolavara9]

commenting how many i use: scout: all the bleed weapons, constantly (sorry) soldier: cow mangler, concheror (sometimes together, i used to use the cow mangler way more) pyro: none demoman: none heavy: also none, still can't believe the natasha hasn't gotten any changes engineer: sometimes i spam minisentries (no wrangler) medic: none sniper: jarate + bushwacka, i wish it was nerfed so i could use other weapons tho spy: none, out of honor

[@Splashzone263]

i feel like the Scorch shot is the reason why Phlog is so annoying literally nerfing the Scorch shot makes the phlog no longer annoying

[@OldManHan]

Gotta say, the music choice in this one is phenomenal.

[@aereonexapprentice7205]

Surprised how the title says combos and says nothing about crit-a-cola and shortstop on scout. Granted, i think people moved on being the a-hole that uses said combo out of honor faster than any other OP combos. Like, that combo is the reason heavy is a very good kritzkrieg target despite soldier and sticky demos existing: the weakness of low damage bullet is removed and the strength of bullets being numerous is infinitely increased, crit-a-cola and shortstop is basically a somehow faster direct hit on the scout.

[@Whomobile]

I've never really run into that combo tbh, maybe it hasn't caught on in Australian servers

[@Lone-Nep]

Shortstop sucks on random bullet spread servers, also the Crit-A-Cola in general sucks. you get one cheap kill maybe and then die if anyone else spots you. Just use a Pistol, same result without marking yourself for death after the attack.

[@PineappleDealer37]

I think phlog is actually only bad when used together with the scorch shot. Getting the mmph meter up without it is really difficult to fill.

[@MoterX]

Not rly

[@UrVidaGameMum]

Dear god why is your crosshair black, how do you see that.

[@Whomobile]

dark mode

[@xxsegaxx]

I'd argue that a trolldier with jump maps' level of accuracy and precision is much more annoying than any regular soldier. Like a grasshopper that is constantly trying to hit you

[@SixArmedSweater]

What if instead of a huge blast radius on impact, the Scorch Shot had a small radius of effect while in the air?

[@princetbug]

like the whole time or after bouncing? if the former, I'd say give the Detonator a small buff to *its* blast radius so it still has a niche

[@hlibushok]

6:25 I love the way you pronounce "MMMPH".

[@Lone-Nep]

The only unlocks I get upset about these days are the Vaccinator and the Wrangler, Most other annoying weapons at least progress the game by actually killing you. These two just have absurd resistances that slow the game down to much. However I do use the Vaccinator if there is a cracked Sniper. especially if I am already playing Medic.

[@spaghettproductions4989]

Oh, hate to break it to ya but they changed the blog post to say it's just another holiday sized update containing bug fixes, cosmetics and skins.

[@thegamingcheeseeater1061]

For the Pomson it’s that it just sucks. It’s more annoying to fight with than to fight against. The projectile is slow as hell, does less damage at close range, and it doesn’t even line up with the crosshair. Then the gun also holds 2 less shots and has a very slightly longer fire rate and reload speed to boot. No Engi would use this to be annoying because the only player you annoy with it is yourself. Hell it doesn’t even work on the Dead Ringer. Just it sucks. It needs a buff and badly.

[@Duwahkeen]

For me it has to be a weapon that wasn't broguht up. The Quickiebomb Launcher With a Kritzkrieg medic on their side, this unstoppable duo will wreack havoc on the entire server. The detonation time is ridiculous and catching a team who's not prepared for a push is devastating I honestly can't wrap my head around how people aren't complaining about this weapon more. It's a crutch

[@MJRSoap]

Fucking whiplash to hear something from Actraiser after all these years.

[@hylobateslar4151]

I wouldn't call the YER annoying, but when I get killed with it I feel bad, like the spy can be on a rampage and unless I mention it in chat my team won't know. And then I feel bad letting my teammates know, because thats essentially skirting the weapons whole point and robbing the spy of his opportunity. And I really like the YER too...

[@plungagaming]

Has anyone told you that your voice sounds like the Clones from the Clone Wars

[@HyperbolicArachnid]

The most annoying demo loadout is scotsman skullcutter (or half zatoichi) with tide turner and booties I'm honestly surprised you didn't say that even as an honorable mention

[@JeffarryLounder]

As a Scout main, the most-annoying loadout by far is FaN, cleaver, and wrap assassin. The amount of salt I get using that loadout (especially with the crit glitch making it a budget cleaver combo capable of dealing 175 damage) is ungodly compared to using literally any other loadout. Also bring back the old sandman.

[@sneckie]

The Diamondback is straight up overpowered, how did you not mention that?

[@Lone-Nep]

On the weakest class. that requires backstabs to obtain. Is a noob farmer at worst.

[@imlegos2153]

@@Lone-Nep Mmyes. Reward the class for doing stuff the class is supposed to do. At least with the Frontier Justice, you're still incredibly vulnerable and visible when you do have crits.

[@Lone-Nep]

@@imlegos2153 Mmyes. Reward the class for doing stuff the class is supposed to do (Mini-Sentry kills/assists) At least with the Diamondback you're still incredibly vulnerable and visible when you are going for backstabs to earn those crits.

[@imlegos2153]

@@Lone-Nep Yes, vulnerable and visible, while literally being able to turn invisible to get anywhere on the map and disguise your crits using the disguise kit.

[@Lone-Nep]

@@imlegos2153 Yes, Can't be invisble during the backstab. And you can also hide your Frontier Justice crits, all it takes is 0.5 sec to pull them out when you have baited an opponent into chasing you. Nobody is going to be able to react to that either. You either think both of them are bad or neither of them are bad. Anything else is pure bias.

[@itsfawn4387]

As someone who plays a lot of scout I always groan when the other teams scout is using bonk, not because its particularly dangerous, but because I have to drop everything and follow the bonk scout to make sure they aren’t going to wreak havoc in the back line. It’s somehow even more that the majority of plays I run into who use this bonk strategy aren’t very good, I have to chase this idiot down who’s trying to dive bomb our spawn then die instantly

[@Reragi]

7:48 Its definitely SolarLight. Because of his videos, people started to mess around with the shields more and have learned that *You can slide off walls at shallow angles without losing charge!* You can LITERALLY charge from pool into the sewer room in 2fort and STILL deliver a crit You can ALSO hit people beside you instead of in front of you at the end of a charge, so you can MURDER people hiding behind a corner! There is no escape.

[@imgladnotu9527]

funny how nobody has talked about stickyspam especially with the kritzkrieg...........

[@HWABAG6]

where is mini sentry?

[@shortfuse9443]

Pomson isnt used cause it sucks. The medic and spy efffects are bad,, but it sucks to function as a basic shotgun replacement. Aiming is hard and the damage isnt there

[@animewolfOtakuwolf]

Here's something about the "Annoying" reasoning applied to balancement: people don't seem to realize that is kind of a trap argument, because if you get to change a weapon for finding it annoying then you lose your right to say anything if someone else gets to change a weapon you might find enjoyable but the other person does find annoying instead. Not to mention, this might cause a chain reaction to which, one "annoying" item gets nerfed but then another one suddently becomes so even tho it wasn't changed beforehand, so that one also gets nerfed, and then the next one, and so on and so forth all for the sake of making a "perfectly not annoying to anyone ever" game until all weapons and items are basically watered down slightly different variations that bring nothing new or different from eachother. Basically, "Annoyance" is a terrible and extremely biased reason for balancement that can be used against those using it as an argument as well, and without a say to anything if that happens. The only reasons weapons should be rebalanced is if the reward outweights or underweights the risk, AND the reason should be looked even outside the weapons themselves (X weapon is OP because of Y weapon synergizing with it).

[@iminumst7827]

In game design, the way mechanics make players feel is very important. While you might think feelings are subjective, that's not entirely the case. Situations that cause frustration more than others can be identified and can be minimized. We call this "fairness". 1) It's important to balance skill with reward. If you can get a lot of value just by spamming a weapon, it feels unfair, hence annoying (Scorch Shot, Diamond Back) 2) Learning is rewarded by making the game more predictable the more you learn, this is undercut by unlearnable unpredictability. (Random crits) 3) You accept outcomes easier when you feel like you had agency over the outcome, if there's a mechanic that takes away agency (Old Sandman Stun), then it feels like the game is deciding the winner. 4) The counterpart for rewarding good play is punishing bad play, so like number 1, it can also be annoying if there's a tool that lets players survive what would otherwise be bad positioning or bad play (Kunai, Black Box, Half-Zatoichi, Dead Ringer, Vaccinator) If a game is fair, generally people won't get as annoyed. It's true you cannot just balance something just because it's annoying to a few people, because then that encourages the most easily annoyed players to blame the game and not themselves for losing in fair scenarios. This is what happened in Overwatch, and why it turned into such a toxic community. Outside of fairness, there's also game pacing. If a strategy or weapon causes the pace of the game to be too slow, that can also be annoying. For example, stacking Engineers or Snipers on defense.

[@animewolfOtakuwolf]

@@iminumst7827 Problem is, more often than not those "frustrations" are more the result of the players ineptitude and/or unwillingness to adapt rather than items/weapons actually being unfair. That is without mentioning how a lot (not all) of those supposedly unfair tools can be easily countered or minimized with a bit of experience and strategy (which TF2 players generally seem too lazy to apply, especially with certain classes). As for your points: 1) I agree about the spamming, but while broken I wouldn't consider the weapons you mentioned as spammy because the former doesn't fire fast enough and the latter being a revolver has a somehow unreliable aiming. To me the Stickybomb launcher fits the role better (demomains know it and abuse it as primary weapon only ever switching to the Iron Bomber) 2) Predictability also makes the game stale and in the long run boring, hence why random crits are not as bad as people think: they break stalemates and make encounters more unpredicteable. Sure, if your only concern is about winning or you want to improve mechanically and take the game a bit more seriously then I can see how it is an issue, but if all you want is play "shooty shooty bang bang" game, it's ultimately just a quirk that might help seeing the next section of the map sooner and won't matter in the next 5 to 15 seconds respawn time. 3) I will just talk about a personal example on this: I used to be a Sandman scout before it got neutered, and since then I stopped throwing baseballs at people but instead shoot them directly, and that's where the "irony" comes, because by doing so I realized to have become more efficent, and nonetheless I can meatshot enemies to death without them even retaliating, ultimately removing that "agency over outcome" factor you mentioned anyway just like with the old Sandman but now faster. Moral of the story is: if you die because a Sandman scout stunned you first, you have a very high change to die from any decent scout period. This because there is also an agency about "not getting hit" or "preventing the outcome" in first place, which can be done in many ways like not overextending, avoid bad positioning, retreating when outnumbered, and calculating risks involved in solo flanking or excursions into enemy territory, which could all ultimately lead to death still without a possibility for retaliation, like getting headshot by a Sniper, meatshot by a scout without the Sandman, stickyspammed, and so on and so forth. 4) This argument can also be used the other way around, as in those weapons you mentioned being used to punish bad play from the opponent/s as well: Just watch your back and that kunai Spy will be ded as you sneeze on it; If the soldier has a black box means has one less rocket so either get a tankier class like Heavy, or a more powerful weapon to outdamage his healing like a Direct Hit, or airblast his rockets as a pyro and heal yourself instead, just to name a few; If there'z a Zatoichi demo just shoot it from the distance and don't get in his face. Tbh the only couple things I may agree with you are the current Dead Ringer and Vax, but I'm afraid the DR will always fall into this by it's own design. I do believe that perfect fairness cannot exist, especially in a game like TF2 having so many hands in the pot with so many people having different ideas about balancement clashing with eachother, even more so when the all the voices (including mine and yours) cannot be 100% objective. Sure things can be fairer, but when it comes at the price or originality and the fun of many (not just the very vocal ones), then I don't think is ultimately worth it. As for the pacing, that's also subjective. Tbh I do like fast games, but I don't feel annoyed by slower paced matches with stacking engies or snipers, especially when the latter devolves into a sniper war, those are hilarious when people start picking the Huntsman.