Another “Failed” Relationship (Navigating Gay Dating)

[@marcusmagnificus1984]

"Lack of role models of healthy gay relationships in the community." Nailed it Matt.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Thank you so much!

[@MarkSummers-g2n]

Gay Porn stars are a good example

[@jeffknollmiller]

Dating as a man in his mid-60’s has been challenging. My ex and I divorced 5 years ago after 20 years together. I never imagined being back on the market again, as I never was comfortable with dating and finding people to date when I was younger. And the apps, as you discussed in this episode, focus on immediacy and physical gratification, which is fine, but they have led to disconnection. Think about when you go to a bar, which is a place to meet and socialize, and you see several men on their phones, looking at the apps. The apps, texting, and the reliance on cell phones, in my humble opinion, have all been harmful to communication and connection.

[@noctis7707]

I fully agree that communication has been muddled with the increased modalities of communication present nowadays. However as someone who moved to a new city with no family nor friends. I have found the idea of meet up groups to be amazing. I have found highly academic folks within a multi-state radius, people within my industry to speak of ethics of our work, as well as niche hobbies and interest groups which I could never imagine occurring 30+ years ago.

[@sigorkon]

I totally agree with you. It is frightening and frustrating to be out there.

[@gw6482]

Talking about failed relationships is never easy, and we have to be mature enough to accept our mistakes and learn from them. And as much as I love being in a loving relationship, I think it should also be emphasised that a romantic relationship does not have to be for everyone, not all of us need someone to be happy. As long as we are I’m honest with ourselves and others, we can genuinely be happy. Thanks as always for being so open, all the best.

[@MrMADONNACOLLECTOR]

I was married for 5 years / together for 27, and he passed in 2020. I have no interest in being in a relationship again. I shared 27 years with a wonderful man, but now it's time for me. I miss him every day and think of him all the time. Also, there is too much babbling about toxic this and analyzing that. That would drive me nuts if I had all that extraneous junk on my mind 24/7/365. Sometimes, it just ends because it ends ... no explanation. In my case, I had no choice but to pick up and move on. I had to take care of myself, and no man can take care of what I should be doing for myself in the first place.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Sending you strength and understanding during this time. Your journey and feelings are entirely valid and we wish you peace and moments of serenity as you navigate this chapter. Take care.🌈❤

[@kso808]

Excellent episode! I’m a lot like Matt, craving emotional intimacy in a relationship. I also seem to fall in love with what presumably turn out to be straight guys sometimes (if they’ve not come out as gay). Also, like Matt, I crave touching and playfulness in relationships.

[@christophersmith3341]

Thanks for this topic. I guess dating is always on every man's mind unless he is dating/partnered, but recently this has been even more on my mind. Appreciate having the topic addressed.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

You're welcome! Glad we could discuss a topic that resonates with you.💕

[@Leftatalbuquerque]

You have to allow for the MASSIVE CPTSD that any gay man of any era (even this one) is experiencing. After a childhood/adolescence/adulthood/lifetime of having your dreams, hopes, desires, existence mocked and derided; having yourself dehumanized and attacked and assaulted by classmates and family and fathers, it's amazing that any of us are capable of anything beyond sex in the bushes. The first reaction of many men is to expect hitting or worse from a prospective partner, seeing as that is what has happened to us from kindergarten onward.

[@jungdoc]

It makes you wonder how much of the hooking-up or more extreme forms of sexual activity are trauma reenactments.

[@MJ-qb5ph]

I think it is ‘ pain relief’ - we all need to be kinder to each other

[@scottmcgrath8893]

Monogamy is what I want but it’s so rare

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Totally get that. Here's to finding what you're looking for! 🌈💕

[@MarkSummers-g2n]

Men in their 80s acting like they are in their 20s is disgusting

[@pauljameson3239]

I found this so relatable. While i am happily in a relationship, there are still things for me to learn.

[@JeroenHuijsinga]

You guys make a great couple...lol At 57, I have made a few stark conclusions. Gay relationships are basically an imitation of straight relationships. At least, that is what gay guys get from the straight world role models around them. By definition, all of us gays start out with the wrong role model. Trauma and victimhood with all the consequences are just up for grabs. And it doesn't stop after exiting the closet. I just started a new job. When and how do I signal my sexual preference, if at all? Why care anyway? Sigh. ANY relationship is based on misunderstanding the foundation of a relationship. From an evolutionary point, relationships are meant for procreation (The sentence 'My kids are the most important thing in my life' echos this). All other stuff is just hollow excuses and this is precisely what you guys illustrate from your experiences (and my own...). The culinary world is the equivalent of 'love' as 'fodder' is the equivalent of common marriage [99% of marriages used to be arranged before love was started to be used as an accepted argument in the 19th century]. Straight people just got married and had kids before they started to think of a relationship as something that adds meaning to life(=love), unless they defined 'attachment' as 'love'. For most of history, people (as other creatures) were too busy to survive. All this talk about 'love' is an extreme privilege for the healthy and wealthy, which now everyone in the west has become after we don't need to worry anymore about harvest failure and deadly pandemics like cholera and the Black Death (just look what corona did to our love life!). Love has only become a feature since the start of the Industrial Revolution. That's just 200 years of 200.000 years of humans walking the face of the Earth! After the 'love-revolution', there was the sexual revolution that has shaken up things even more radically just 60 years ago. I think we haven't come even close to understanding what's the effect of the sexual revolution for both lgbti and straight people. So is it weird that we have attachment issues? I think it's important to define what real love is: 'Love' is basically another word for 'attachment'. Attachment is what we really long for. But getting attached to someone takes time. You cannot love someone from day one. Think about your parents and why there is mutual love between you and them. When you think about them, you re-experience moments of care and fun with them, consciously and subconsciously. How they supported you as a kid and beyond, both physically and mentally. Those experiences are engraved in our minds and we keep craving for them. We seek the understanding that they build inside of us. I think other forms of love are artificial. We try to build stories about ourselves inside an imagined relationship that is really built on our childhood with our parents. Those are our 'expectations' that you refer to in the video. Obviously, it's near impossible to have those expectations meet in reality. That's why modern relationships (straight and gay) fail so often and so horribly. However, individualism plays its part too. The contrast between arranged marriage, devoid of love (and the desire for it), of 100-200 years ago and today's desire for 'meaning' in a relationship is simply too big to ignore. Gay guys do have the biological craving for kids as do straight people but to realize that goal is another story. I also think that guys keep hunting while girls are mostly sedentary, again, from an evolutionary point of view. It's a given we have to settle with: two hunters don't stay home; they keep hunting when no girl holds them back. We may be able to dampen our sexual desires by having kids, but it will not solve the issue indefinitely and surely only temporary. The same applies to straight people that often break up after the kids have grown up. Gay emancipation was a great thing but we have to face the flip side: Being here and being visible in society carries consequences. Being in the closet like before the emancipation wave, visiting parks and bars, avoiding both relationships and attachment, was comfortable in a way. Out in the light, we feel the urge to comply with the straight community so we feel pressed to mimic the socially accepted models of relationships and its characteristics like being monogamous and having kids, without asking if this is the right model for us.

[@couldbemessy]

Great discussion. Thank you for doing what you do! 🙏

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Thank you for supporting us.❤

[@desfrancis2543]

First time I've heard anyone acknowledge the demisexual reality and that sexual hookups are a non starter. Sad as it might sound, having straight friends to meet emotional needs and finding creative sexual self love techniques is more fulfilling than rabid emotionally anonymous hookups

[@josephyoung6749]

48:10 Good point about having a support network outside of a relationship, and cultivating different relationships with friends and family to have that support just in case. I can attest to that. Not sure I could get into a relationship right now... maybe I could date 2 guys at the same time who are already in a relationship, because it would really be the opposite of this codependence thing. But I might need years to begin to trust someone again enough for a real relationship.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Absolutely, building a strong support network is key.

[@crestonediamond]

Thanks for sharing.

[@MJ-qb5ph]

I had horrible relationships with fellow white guys. Stopped for years - got sorted (still working on it of course) did therapy, 12 step program, travelled for a new career, got a phd and out of the blue an amazing Asian guy who is Christian entered my life and we have been together for 15 years - I was seeking what was wrong. The universe delivered what was right - so maybe forget about race, faith blocks as one approach

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Thank you for sharing your inspiring journey!❤ Your story beautifully illustrates that love knows no bounds of race or faith. It's a powerful reminder to focus on connections that feel right rather than being held back by preconceived notions. Wishing you and your partner continued happiness and growth together!🙏🌈

[@MJ-qb5ph]

@@GayMenGoingDeeperThanks. Bless. By the way I’m Buddhist!

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

@@MJ-qb5ph Ohhh, good to know that.❤

[@lutherjones503]

Simple we as gay men put too much value on extrinsic needs (often short term gains) that's why the are more likely to fail. The best relationship in my life was based on intrinsic values

[@kennethbailey9853]

Living with a younger man a13 year age difference for 25 Years. He said He wanted to be in a Relationship with me. Twenty Five Years and still No Intimacy or Sex. Do You think Ive been Too Patient?😁😒

[@winnied87]

The more I read about gay relationships, the more confused I get. There are so many guys putting sex first, but in relationships somehow sex becomes a rarity. Where is the disconnect? Could this be related to some traits guys, who form relationships, possess? Some more emotional vulnerability and will to connect deeply, but not so much interest in having sex? /Brainstorming loudly.

[@christophersmith3341]

@@winnied87 I have a theory that, because we don't get socialized as straight people do, and we aren't taught how to be in relationships, nor do we see them modeled nearly as often as straight relationships are--and I'm talking friendships as well as romantic relationships--what a lot of gay men are really seeking is a best friend or just someone who will stick by them platonically, not a romantic partner. But the two get confused in their minds and, unknowingly, they use sex as bait, and once they've "hooked" their "best friend" (which they likely see and the other person sees as "found" their "soul mate"), they withdraw sex because romance isn't really what they wanted.

[@Leftatalbuquerque]

Yes. Perhaps your tendency to capitalize unnecessarily has had something to do with it...

[@freddyjafar1490]

@@christophersmith3341 hear hear

[@gilbermamani3040]

Is He paying rent?

[@10-OSwords]

It's called grindr not LTR......