Answering Eastern Orthodox Objections to the Catholic Faith

[@SaintCharbelMiracleworker]

When I was an atheist turned protestant looking for the original Church, I looked into EO. I read James Likoudis and Vladimir Solovyov books and my mind was blown. In the end the role of the Pope convinced me.

[@mariorizkallah5383]

Read two paths by michael whelton

[@karolsiska1075]

@@mariorizkallah5383 none of it refutes what Soloviev or Likoudis say.

[@aloyalcatholic5785]

Sent this link to Roosh V who recently converted to Russian orthodoxy. I thought it was a great and fair response to Eastern Orthodox objections to Catholics.

[@titusflaviusvespasian5923]

Roosh V should talk with Flanders about Catholicism. I didn't like how Roosh tried to corner Milo in his last Roosh Hour, when Milo evidently doesn't know much about the Catholic Church.

[@aloyalcatholic5785]

@@titusflaviusvespasian5923 Agreed. Listening to his podcast I have heard some very obvious theological errors, for example he believe Satan is not infecting the Russian Orthodox church. I admire his earnestness and his apparent sincerity towards the faith, but I almost had to laugh when I heard that...

[@titusflaviusvespasian5923]

@@aloyalcatholic5785 Yeah, as it was with game 20 years ago, he puts on his blindfolds regarding his practice of the Faith and his views on Orthodoxy. The change of his forum culture is also drastic - not that it is not allowed to promote fornication, but he bans everybody - even long term members - whenever somebody "offends" Christendom or his person. He became thin-skinned and sneakier. Even though he takes the Faith very seriously, he has a wrong approach to it. It didn't make him stronger in character but weaker. I believe his conversion to the ROCOR is because he spent so much time in Eastern Europe. He may got out of EE but EE is still in him, and the ROCOR allows him to compensate his leaving EE. Actually, I made a video talking about Roosh's approach to the Christian way of life, if you are interested you can check it out.

[@aloyalcatholic5785]

@@titusflaviusvespasian5923 I would indeed be interested. Do you have a link? Thank you

[@spoocyguy]

@@aloyalcatholic5785 he banned me from his telegram for saying there was pedophilia in the Orthodox Church too.

[@TonyEspana182]

Tony Montana-" First you get the Baptism, then you get the Communion, then you get the Chrismation"

[@commissary4196]

Just stupid jokes, once its all out to bare thats all thats left. Truly pathetic.

[@Dustin_Quick_Holy_Smokes]

Was an absolute pleasure, brother!

[@TheMeaningofCatholic]

Likewise my brother!

[@filenailedge4284]

Title is misleading. This is mostly a discussion about Church history, not an examination of EO objections to Catholic dogma and faith. I'm 1:18:00 into the video and there's no discussion of essence/energy, barely a discussion about the filioque and no discussion about its theological implications. On what grounds can a pope change the Nicene Creed?? No discussion on the beatific vision, or the theological implications of immaculate conception. Etc. Etc. These are the minor, worldly, and secondary objections to Catholicism that they are trying to answer. Again, very little discussion of the major theological differences and why they matter, which should be the first and foremost topic. Additionally, just count the number of times this guy weasels out of explaining a question by saying EO engage in "half-truths" or "deceptions" or such without getting into what those supposed deceptions are. He obviously has an axe to grind and it shows. Not a charitable examination of EO objections at all and from this conversation, I wouldn't trust their recall of history either. Not worth listening to.

[@carlosalegria4776]

Why are you so mad? why are you so hostile? why is this the characteristic of all online EO I come across?

[@filenailedge4284]

@@carlosalegria4776 I'm not EO

[@filenailedge4284]

@@carlosalegria4776 also, not mad. Even if I was, it's irrelevant.

[@aaronrider4051]

@@carlosalegria4776 I am not Eastern Orthodox. I'm Roman Catholic. But there was nothing "mad" or "hostile" about the dude's post.

[@valethemajor]

Hey man it's been 3 years... thanks for saving me an hour. Do you have any good resources regarding these arguments? I'm scouring for information. Seems like more apologists are simply focused on prots and atheists (not a bad thing ofc) but the orthodox have a singular focused anger and so they have plenty of rocks to throw at us, each of which I've not heard prior.

[@deusimperator]

Also, do not forget that the "pontificate" of Joannis Philagathos played a large part in what lead to 1054. The Greek emperor attempt to unify the Roman Empire by taking over the papacy. The Greek bishops went along with the Byzantine Emperor as they suffered from Caesaropapism and installed a Greek, Joannis Philagathos as the pope in Rome. The Byzantine Emperors wanted to re-establish the Roman Empire with themselves as the rulers of the empire. This incident lead to complications in the relationship between Latins and Greeks. IN WW1 the Latins and Russians had intercommunion. Only one orthodox bishop disagreed with the Council of Florence and went back to Ephesus and stirred up the bishops in the surrounding area and the populace by taking up to demagoguery and lead to those who rejected the filioque to seek the assistance of the Muslims. Guess what, the Muslims imposed the non-filioque on the churches within their their suzerainties and the Muslims appointed or vetoed the patriarchs. Also, we have to remember the Pius X was not eligible to be consecrated a bishop, he was not a lawyer. He lacked the qualifications for the office of bishop. It is only about being granted a papal dispensation that his consecration went ahead. Many traditionalists love Pius V and Pius X but both overreached. As soon as Pius X became pope he broke with tradition and lifted the 1400 year requirement for holding a degree in Roman Law. The whole reason for the existence of the university system was to teach law. Pius V suppressed many rites imposing the Roman canon on the bishops of the West. We have to acknowledge that the suppression of the apostolic traditions of the Church in India. The St, Thomas Christians would all be Catholic today and united, except the popes through the Portuguese imposed the Roman Canon on them. Look at the situation in China, the Jesuits wanted a Chinese use church in China and the emperor was going to convert. And then the Dominicans who disliked the Jesuits used the pope to scuttle the Chinese use liturgy and the Emperor refused to convert. Pope Francis overreaches when he imposes his opinion over the Church and attempting to teach it as the ordinary magisterium. You can find that popes regularly exceed their authority. The pope should have universal jurisdiction but not immediate jurisdiction among the Eastern Churches. The popes must not interfere in the patriarchs and exarches immediate jurisdiction. The SSPX is in a irregular situation. IT is best not to attend an SSPX chapel until this situation is normalized. You are NOT free to attend a SSPX chapel UNLESS a situation exists where an alternate DOES NOT EXIST. One should not make the extraordinary the ordinary. You may attend a SSPX chapel given extraordinary circumstances.

[@dewd9327]

Inaccurate, historians and scholars in academia agree that Eastern Rome was the continuation of the Roman empire. The name Byzantium is an anachronistic name, like calling England Londonistan in the future. As for Caesaropapism, there have been plenty of times where Bishops have sharply rebuked and reprimanded emperors for meddling in the Church’s affairs; and I’m sure everyone remembers how the German Emperors and Frankish kings loved meddling in the papacy.

[@in5874]

A hope for true unity with charity makes my heart happy

[@mjl.9-19]

Thank God for the availability of these works. A year ago I wouldn't click on anything EO, from a Catholic perspective... recent interest in Eastern geo politics led me to consider EO. I thought it would lead me away from so much aggravating nuance in RC today... Thanks TIm Flanders!

[@dwong9289]

“If you leave communion with Rome, you are going to hell.” I’m glad you are straight up and honest about the Catholic position. To many try to water it down and preach invincible ignorance first. They always talk about exceptions rather then the rules. Stay in Holy Mother Church because it is necessary for salvation.

[@oraetlabora1922]

Then return to Orthodoxy and recover the original doctrine.

[@V14-x6n]

My favorite list of “latin heresies” is that of Photius - the lay Patriarch of Constantinople made bishop in 5 days, whom the so-called “orthodox” venerate as a saint. In that list, worthy to be read in a stand up comedy, he, for the first time, accuses Latins of Filioque out if nowwhere, and adds more heresies such as shaving beards and eating beavers’ tails, fasting on Saturdays and consecrating unleavened bread. You have to be an “orthodox” to take a list like that seriously, proclaim your see of Constantinople a new Rome and make it the first see after the schism was accomplished later on, and consider Photius a saint for breaking away from the Church.

[@dorianlelong]

The "SSPX bishop" referred to here by Flanders is Bishop Williamson, who is no longer part of the SSPX.

[@camovets5719]

Honest question: at the end you said you have to have communion with Rome. Well seeing how the Pope himself worshiped a pagan idol in the Vatican itself on top of all the other numerous blasphemies over the last 60 years. Is it more important to have “communion” with these people or to stay true to The Faith ??

[@TheMeaningofCatholic]

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. What did Emperor Otto do when Pope John XII toasted Satan and turned the Vatican into a brothel? or what did St. Vincent do when anti-pope Benedict was obstinant against Constance? We suffer for our father who abuses us, and never break with him. However, we must obey God over man, and rebuke the pope if absolutely necessary, as the saints have done.

[@camovets5719]

@@TheMeaningofCatholic Thank you for the reply

[@in5874]

Redemptive suffering - would love to hear more of this

[@thomasjorge4734]

Moving solves little, since the Parish changes with each Pastor. They force Cafeteria Ecclesiology on you!

[@ilonkastille2993]

Could you explain “ the latinization of Eastern catholicism”.

[@TheMeaningofCatholic]

When Latin customs are forced on Eastern Catholics

[@ilonkastille2993]

@@TheMeaningofCatholic thanks.

[@berniepeng]

Tim, I went to the Ukrainian Catholic Church, Byzantine liturgy, and they had the Filioque clause crossed out in pen, in all the books in the pews. I'm guessing that it was because they want to "reach out" to the Orthodox, and show a sort of "unity" with them, while not intending to offend the western church, but I still thought it odd.

[@TheMeaningofCatholic]

This is probably a reverse Latinization

[@aaronburnsbonaventurebookk595]

I was at a Ukrainian Byzantine Catholic liturgy celebrated by a bishop yesterday. Filioque was included.

[@ΆγιοςΙερώνυμος-χ2γ]

As an Orthodox who was baptised and raised in the Latin Church, are you saying that I’m going to Hell?

[@TheMeaningofCatholic]

Objectively, yes. There is no salvation outside the Church. You have departed from the Mystical Body of Christ and chosen schism instead of suffering with Christ and with your brethren. However, I'm not your judge, Christ is. Meditate upon the just judgment seat of Christ. With respect, TSF

[@ΆγιοςΙερώνυμος-χ2γ]

@@TheMeaningofCatholic I see your point, as my church also teaches the Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus dogma, but I’ve been personally struggling lately to discern which church is true, especially in light of the recent schism in the Orthodox Church. Could I private message you via email?

[@hildegardnessie8438]

@@ΆγιοςΙερώνυμος-χ2γCome back to Rome and assent to God’s will.

[@ΆγιοςΙερώνυμος-χ2γ]

@@hildegardnessie8438 why would I when Rome has fallen into heresy? Have you read the lives of contemporary Orthodox saints like Sts Paisios the Athonite, Iakavos of Evia, Nektarios etc?? They’re all unanimous in their teaching about the errors of the papists, just like their forerunners like St Mark Eugenikos and St Photios et al.

[@christopherlampman5579]

Where can you even find out what the orthodox believe? Is there even one collective authority to unite the orthodox? It’s almost impossible to nail an ortho-bro down on theology… everything is a great mystery. Love to my orthodox brothers but I don’t have any interest in going to a church with multiple theological traditions being simultaneously accepted.

[@oraetlabora1922]

The beliefs of the Orthodox Catholic Church are based upon the Sacred Tradition and the Holy Scriptures.

[@williamockham5284]

This was fantastic!! Great work Timothy!

[@JumbaGumba]

“Schism is spiritual suicide” ??? How about the ecumenism and innovation of the RC church is spiritual desolation.

[@danhpham3991]

It was so nice without this cigare. Otherwise it was a good conversation

[@Vartholomeos.]

Instead of making this video, why don't you just debate an Orthodox Christian about their "objections" to the heretical and erroneous Roman Catholic faith?? Would've been much more interesting answering them, instead of just talking amongst yourselves. Glory to God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, "who proceeds from ONLY The Father," and Glory always to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, Orthodoxy. God bless.

[@dexteradomini7103]

No it’s definitely more interesting just listening to them without hearing some rambling Orthogeek’s senseless bloviating. BEGOME CATHOLIC, HERETIC.

[@dexteradomini7103]

Yeah, like this is interesting… Dyer: "Okay so the presuppositional argument is (blah blah blah) and there are presuppositions that (blah blah blah.) Now if you take the presupposition (blah blah blah) then you are forced to (blah blah blah) which has to occur based on that presupposational argument (blah blah blah.) TWO HOURS LATER… Dyer: "And that is why one has to take that presupposition in order for it to make sense." [Some debate back and forth] Dyer: "I just said that man, weren't you listening?" Debater: "Well yeah, but I'm trying to get to the point of (blah)." Dyer: "You can't do that, I just proved you can't." Debater: "Well if I could just..." Dyer: "No." Debater "..." Dyer: "Because I had already explained it and if you are too stupid to understand then there's not point going further." [back and forth] Dyer: "You're an idiot, dude. You're just an idiot. I answered your questions, I proved why you are wrong, you're an idiot." LOL. Silly schismatic! BEGOME CATHOLIC.

[@Vartholomeos.]

Nah, I'd rather see Jay destroy heretics.

[@Declanmaceircc]

Roosh V and Michael Witkoff just did something similar but as Eastern Orthodox. Not everything needs to be a debate, although Tim has certainly debated many people before.

[@petros-petra]

​@@dexteradomini7103pretty accurate

[@spilkafurtseva1918]

How long was TS Flanders Orthodox?

[@JumbaGumba]

Probably not long considering how he makes a straw man out of our position

[@dexteradomini7103]

Longer than Jay Dyer was “Catholic”.

[@GermanicusCaesar117]

How do you say "ad hominem" in Russian?

[@SAHOVNICU]

V2 is not Catholic. It was a robber's council

[@mariorizkallah5383]

Catholic church has fallen

[@hildegardnessie8438]

And you’re a schismatic.

[@dorianlelong]

Holy Smokes, well, I do shun the Novus Ordo, because it isn't good enough for me or anyone else.

[@merlinshorb4324]

Well that was a nice crase course in strawmen making 😊

[@Latarniczka]

Can't wait for the end of this cigare; sorry, but it's very distracting. Great interview otherwise!

[@lucidlocomotive2014]

Get out of here bro. How is it distracting? Do you actually sit down and watch the entire thing visually? This is the kind of video you listen to while doing other things. You probably just don’t like cigars

[@Dustin_Quick_Holy_Smokes]

Many Saints enjoyed tobacco. As Chesterton said, “in Catholicism, the pint, the pipe, and the cross go together.” We are not fundamentalists.

[@filipradosa6062]

@@Dustin_Quick_Holy_Smokes I like it.

[@Latarniczka]

@@lucidlocomotive2014 Have nothing against tabacco, or any other substance; just found this compulsive like frequency very distracting and making me nervous (vicariously?). if it does not distract you, kudo for you. Just expressed my reaction, to which I have a right. Also, my comment got some likes, so other people felt similarly apparently. Kind regards to you and thank you for your answer.

[@lucidlocomotive2014]

@@Latarniczka you can try not looking

[@Dlee-eo5vv]

It figures Rome would appeal to Augustine. It's fine to have a humble spirit but Rome schismed long ago and has to date continued to apostatized and openly exposed her shame.

[@carlosalegria4776]

The Orthodox church has no unity though. From what I see, they excommunicate each other all the time. So how can I know which is the true church, if many of them are distinct?

[@Dlee-eo5vv]

@@carlosalegria4776 yes, there is trouble everywhere and throughout church history the end is nearing. There always needs to be a separation from all who will not repent of falsely teaching the people of Gods flock. Don't let the fight trouble you its necessary. we must hold fast the symbol of faith. Innovation is the evidence of a false church and rule of satan.

[@carlosalegria4776]

@@Dlee-eo5vv but for example, how could the orthodox call an ecumenical council when there is such division? Who would have the authority to call it? Wouldn't the holy spirit ensure it could be called?

[@Dlee-eo5vv]

@@carlosalegria4776 with The Church as truly catholic the whole will where there is a need for any council. The problem is with settled councils and the need to obey them first and repentance will make all one body.

[@carlosalegria4776]

@@Dlee-eo5vv I didn't quite follow... How would patriarchs all come to an agreement for the need for an ecumenical council if they have excommunicated each other? Who will determine that they must convene? It's well and good to say the holy spirit, but if the Orthodox church doesn't have clear leadership, and they themselves declare each other in schism, how could it be determined? As in everything, there has to be authority. But where is it in the Orthodox church? Perhaps I didn't understand your previous statement, if you could clear it up so I can understand I'd appreciate it