Answering the Same Old Arguments Against Sound Money | Thomas E. Woods, Jr.

[@lancesteinke3732]

"The Mises institute will never back down." -Tom Woods :D

[@chubbyninja842]

One of the arguments one of my friends made against sound money and the gold standard was that "there's just not enough gold in the world". But that's the beauty of the free market and the fundamental laws of economics. As scarcity increases, the value of the item in question increases as well. For the sheer fact that there's not enough gold to go around, the value of gold itself goes up to the point that it's no longer an issue. Additionally, in a free market solution, you can supplement gold currency with other precious metals: silver, copper, platinum, etc... There is plenty of precious metal of all sorts to service the money market, and the value of it will be determined by its demand.

[@qwertymanor]

ZombieTex the amazing atheist said that too

[@51MontyPython]

@@qwertymanor Did he really?

[@intranext1359]

@@qwertymanor who is he?

[@qwertymanor]

@@intranext1359 famous youtuber 10 years ago

[@dcsco]

There is plenty of gold for all of the common people. There is just not enough for the over spending over bloated and wasteful governments that always need more and more. There is never enough of any fiat for them either.

[@ReadMr]

The last 4 minutes are must watch. It's becoming more and more relevant these days. Excellent lecture!

[@BaremetalBaron]

The TL;DR on deflation is: "Yes prices are falling, but costs are *also* falling, because a cost is just another price." So yeah you can still turn a profit with falling prices. Simple.

[@tabletalk33]

Woods is in top form, as usual. Wonderfully clear, devastingly accurate. End the FED.

[@SS-dm5iy]

The gold standard was only a disaster for Keynesian economics. They think it is a disaster because you can't print and spend.

Also because the individuals in government would lose power and influence.

[@SovereignStatesman]

Exactly-- just like with Keynsian physics you can have a water running up a pipe, that then flows down and turns a waterfall for UNLIMITED POWER!

[@StubbsMillingCo.]

Gold is to be used as a place of value. Meaning you are to be paid in silver and you then turn the silver in for gold and hold the gold for your net worth/value. You spend the silver on bread and whatever else. An oz of silver can get you roughly 11 loaves of bread… now of course you aren’t eating 11 loaves at once but OVER A SPAN OF TIME you will. So that’s a loaf of bread a day from Mr. Baker man to you and you gave him an oz of silver. Gold = stored value | Silver = use as payment.

[@SS-dm5iy]

@@StubbsMillingCo. What if you aren't buying something that costs $3 and instead costs $25,000 or $500,000? Both gold and silver hold value. Both can be used as currency.

[@StubbsMillingCo.]

@@SS-dm5iy I agree, I was just using the simple bread analogy because that’s the easiest way for folks to understand. Use whichever is my point though the good you would more than likely want to hold on to than the silver. Depending on the item purchased. Yes, gold would possibly be more reasonable in exchange for purchasing say a home/land or vehicle or something of high-extremly high value. I personally would use the gold as stored value and the silver as “spending” currency. I do not agree with paper money at all. Now do I spend it? Of course that’s what I’m paid in as with the rest of you and is less explaining on how it’s legal tender than gold or silver at the moment. Again spend each however you wish or don’t. You are free to do so.

[@JDoubleOP]

Mr. Woods is aware what mankind have been achieved. Now at the end of the current supercycle, we will make the next step and we can do it on a more clever way we ever did before, without the hatred, jealousy and war. We're in a state of knowledge we can do way better. Let go old patterns which brought us on current state, but we outgrow them. The pieces are layed, the clearer the picture becomes. Only put our energy where it's needed. LEAN principle of "Managing our World" with true values.

[@petrucchio]

No doubt the best economist alive.

[@ExcuseMeRuGrumpy]

Everyone needs to start liking every mises video! LIKE LIKE LIKE

[@ForOrAgainstUs]

Utterly listenable and enjoyable.

[@Fernando-sj6bq]

This guy should have his own podcast

[@dcsco]

He does now.

[@Yellowgary]

@@dcsco he’s still a very failed podcaster

[@makisxatzimixas2372]

An argument against "gold takes labour" statement is that gold has value on its own. I believe that why it was chosen as currency. It is actually valuable, non corrosive, and it has uses and value on its own. It is an intermediate good with which we exchange other things. Cigarretes, or pure metals are like that.

[@SuperSneakySteve]

Tom Woods is my hero!

[@JDoubleOP]

Use the Gaussian curve: Employability almost equal, Production is rising quick, Purchasing power drops quick = End of a cycle(kondratiev wave) = default = World currencies Dollar/Euro/Yuan balanced ---> one world currency? I don't know, but technology will take over more and more, and that's ok to me, but how do you balance a healthy and 'stabile' purchasing power to it? People still want stability, health and a lucky feeling. Next step in evolution of mankind. Great speech 100 points!!!.

[@bamainatlanta]

Tom Woods for president!

[@j4ck2234]

Self interest, or in other words, having a say in what way the value you produce is distributed, is -not- greed. This is a highly necessary component of any sort of free society. Who else is supposed to distribute the scarce resources in society?..and even more important is that we cannot begin to understand what the wants&needs of a society are without having a system based on property rights.

[@centurion180ad]

The BEST point about price nonelasticity in a downward direction, is that it is *all* recoverable to operators of manufactory and to providers of capital, as well as to institutionalized labor.

[@JDoubleOP]

Talking about individual/collective "productivity"; over the years our individual consciousness is raising and also becomes more global, but it's not in a state of global consciousness yet, it's emerging. So according to the 'entire structure' of life we made an enormous change. Economics will be always at the root of life, just the values have to change and to be adapt to the state economy can grow to a higher level. Now civilization isn't civilized yet. It's a combination of the right values.

[@j4ck2234]

Capitalism isn't really an 'ism' at all. It's just the societal acceptance of property rights, That is incorporating divided systems of property rights; families, tribes, nations, continents, and so on, into one big division of labor. In a sense another word for capitalism is peace. Peace doesn't fail.

[@Buffalo122333]

The argument i keep hearing is the richest people have been buying up all the gold so going to the gold standard would mean they would have all the wealth. I've never responded but I feel repealing the legal tender laws first, like Ron Paul says, would solve that problem.

[@ItsAllAboutGuitar]

I paid $400 for this computer. I paid $1500 for the previous one 5 years ago. I don't regret paying that $1500 because I USED it for the last 5 years.

[@rkecseg84]

Go Mises!! Brilliant!

[@gideondavid30]

"e) the historically demonstrated encumbrance of the limited circulation is not only demonstrated and demonstrable, the calamities imposed by this defect have thus already served well as a principal argument to abandon the encumbrances of the faulty standard. Even if none of these things inspired the perfection of economy, they indelibly register the shortcomings and present potentially catastrophic consequences of re-invoking the gold standard"

[@SelmerAce]

There's a difference between an individual buying an overcoat (constituting demand for a product) and the government expanding the monetary supply so the nominal value of peoples' incomes increase leading them to patronize industries for which there is less demand. The first is a simple exchange that allocates resources and profits where they are desired and the second is the eventually inflationary boom that sacrifices purchasing power for the veneer of stability.

[@gideondavid30]

d) not only is there no binding linkage between the value of a purported precious metal monetary standard and the value of a circulation and prosperity limited to monetary reserves; the limited circulation itself therefore manipulates the value and availability of money (which thus must manifest in disadvantage or obstruction of prosperity)"

[@zsylvana]

Kaldor's critique was combined with an earlier critique by Piero Sraffa who noted that Hayek's desire for "neutral" money was simply impossible in any real capitalist economy for "a state of things in which money is 'neutral' is identical with a state in which there is no money at all." Hayek "completely ignored" the fact that "money is not only the medium of exchange, but also a store of value" which "amounts to assuming away the very object of the inquiry."

[@gideondavid30]

"The only 'sound money' therefore is free of interest/usury. It represents only earned wealth; it is introduced to circulation with the appearance of new wealth; and it is paid out of circulation at the rate at which the wealth it represents is consumed. "

[@frederickfred2714]

The relative value of silver and gold should never be set by anyone ..buyer and seller should always be able to set the value at the time of the transaction ..

[@Cornampoo]

23:46 Tom's argument against deflation is epic! xD

[@Loyal2Liberty]

Tom and Liberty Classroom are awesome.

[@zsylvana]

Piero Sraffa also noted that the starting point of Hayek's theory was flawed: "An essential confusion . . . is the belief that the divergence of rates is a characteristic of a money economy . . . If money did not exist, and loans were made in terms of all sorts of commodities, there would be a single rate which satisfies the conditions of equilibrium, but there might be at any moment as many 'natural' rates of interest as there are commodities, though they would not be 'equilibrium' rates.

[@gideondavid30]

"Because gold is a scarce good humanity choose it as a 'back up' currency. What if the big banksters decide that it isn't anymore." You make a case against GOVERNMENT power and its ROLE (or lack there of) in the markets. I actually agree with this notion. The gold standard can be removed in a crisis or at the whims of a bureacracy. Therefore, it CANNOT discipline and tie the hands of government.

[@ripuncleted]

Tom Woods is an amazing human bean.

[@gideondavid30]

Does gold ad silver occur naturally in a free market historically? Last I checked, government's chose the monetary standard and implemented it. Then there are of course other forms of currencies that have been chosen historically (shells, sticks, etc).

[@saltysnacky]

The Mises Institute is not funded by the Rockefeller Foundation. Mises himself was in his early years in the US funded by the foundation. However, Mises Institute receives no such funding.

[@therotaryrocket]

Hey that's a good example, I know a lot of people can relate to that argument. The scarcity adds value to the product (obviously i guess), and of course it's more scarce when the game first comes out.

[@xcvsdxvsx]

I dont know if hes going to get to it later in the video but the funniest one i always hear is "there just isnt enough gold in the word". I literally honestly would have seen right through that argument by at-least the age of 10.

[@Papatch64]

Actually Tom, If toaster fall relative to gold it is not deflation in the money supply, it is an increase in the quantity of toasters. That is not deflation of the supply of money but and increase in the supply of goods.

[@Sigridovski]

Any area can have an ideal scene. Any outpoint can be handled, until you reach the ideal scene. Most people must have seen the ideal scene in order to be able to see how the scene ought to be. Some can understand it without having seen it before but those are few. To understand the ideal scene, you must be smart and have lots of experience in the area. The not quite bright, the reasonable, cannot see outpoints and so will not handle anything but let suppression continue. So we must continue to get more people to understand the ideal scene and to see the outpoints and the pluspoints. Lets keep the pluspoints, lets look at those first and then search out the outpoints and get rid of those.

[@frederickfred2714]

It should be possible to have a bi metallic money system where market forces determine the relative value of a gold coin and a silver coin what ever they be called ..

[@Joe11Blue]

They lived in poverty and didn't travel far enough to barter with anyone. You really should not be commenting on this if you really do not have the knowledge to have an honest discussion. Money was the invention that made commerce possible. It was the reason people started advancing.

[@zsylvana]

2)Then Kahn asked the obvious question:"Is it your view that if I went out tomorrow and bought a new overcoat,that would increase unemployment?"All that Hayek could offer in reply was the unconvincing claim that to show why would require a complicated mathematical argument.The notion that reducing consumption in a depression was the best thing to do convinced few , the impact of such saving should be,a collapse in demand for goods and services.It was 1932 and Hayek made a fool of himself in U.K

[@gideondavid30]

"the gold standard can neither a) save us from perpetual multiplication of debt by interest; nor b) can it sustain prosperity exceeding relatively minuscule monetary reserves. Perhaps even more hideous, c) students of the monetary gold situation are aware we probably don't even have the gold some of us we think we do"

[@SovereignStatesman]

"the gold standard can neither a) save us from perpetual multiplication of debt by interest;" Yes it can, because people won't LEND you more than you HAVE; and you can't REPAY IT by writing on a piece of paper "HAND OVER ALL YOUR STUFF OR GO TO JAIL." Tom Woods isn't half the economic theoretician that he pretends to be.

[@abefroman9565]

@@SovereignStatesman Can you explain this more?

[@zsylvana]

In fact, former students (including John Hicks and Nicholas Kaldor) showed how Hayek's theory was flawed and he gave up business cycle research in the early 1940s for other work. Kaldor's first critique ("Capital Intensity and the Trade Cycle"), for example, resulted in Hayek completed rewriting his theory while Kaldor's second article ("Professor Hayek and the Concertina-effect") showed that Hayek's Ricardo Effect was only possible under some very special circumstances and so highly unlikely

[@j4ck2234]

Economic science is rooted in the nature of humanity itself. More particular in the moral relations we establish to increase collective as well as individual 'productivity' (such a small word) The laws of economics will only change if the entire structure of life within us changes. As far as I know we are still made up of cells so that leaves economics intact, phew.

[@Timasion]

The average economic professor hasn't heard of Austrian Economics. I try to argue it with my law partner who teaches economics and he gives me blank stares on the various Austrian economic theories and has never read the Road to Serfdom or Constitution of Liberty.

[@zsylvana]

1) The only practical suggestions that flow from the Austrian school´s endless analysis, is to do nothing. It also implies that the best thing to do in a recession or depression is not to spend, but rather to save as this will bring the savings and loans back into the equilibrium position. Economist Richard Kahn recounted when Hayek presented his theory at a seminar in Cambridge University. His presentation was followed by silence.

[@JDoubleOP]

The values must be adapted to the status(state) in which the economy has grown, according to the Kondratiev wave or great supercycle. We always come "better out of a cycle as we started" it. Cycles after cycle we will come to a "tippingpoint" in which machines will do more than 'handicraft'. People are still nesceccary to develope/create/produce machines and other services, but 'handicraft' will always be less from that point in time = the point money loses his value as a medium of change.

[@gideondavid30]

"Gold and Silver were chosen by merchants long before ancient civilizations deemed them to be used as money." And before that, people simply bartered. What is your point?

[@JDoubleOP]

It's not scarcity of money, but scarcity of goods. It's not the amount of money, but the purchasing power of it. Now half the world works his ass of value adding and non value adding and the other half is doing nothing, planned or not planned, willing or unwilling. Day by day technology will do more and more, wich is a great thing, but what's the purpose of producing goods that you also sell them. If people don't have the purchasing power the whole system collapses.

[@gideondavid30]

"The dream of returning to a gold standard is more bankrupt than its failure to perceive how 'interest' would swallow all the gold we might circulate. Even without usury, an honored standard precludes both sustaining exceeding industry or representing the potential wealth thereof - imposing the very improprieties for which its advocates suppose it serves them."

[@chrishawkins5371]

Austrian economics doesn't claim to be able to end the business cycle - Keynes and monetarist theory make those claims - and Iceland was not 'Austrian' pre crash. Austrian economics would suggest growth post crash in Iceland was inhibited by Government allocation of capital rather than allowing the market to decide where was profitable. It would also argue that welfare in Iceland (or anywhere) inhibits liberty as the recipient becomes dependent.

[@gideondavid30]

"competing currencies were allowed, there would be a flight into them as a real store of energy by people anywhere. An example of free markets." Competing currencies may temporarily emerge under a free market. However, unless that currency is backed by wealth and production, it then becomes as arbitrary as monopoly. Yes, people will place their faith in the speculative markets ....but the END RESULT of any currency that is subject to interest and not tied to anything of value is the same.

[@watgaanhieraan]

As for a depression since the last one I think that was your question how about the one we are in at the moment.

[@JDoubleOP]

Next step in evolution of mankind is "the Technological People"

[@ctwomey84]

Can someone please direct me towards audio downloads of this seminar??

[@watgaanhieraan]

The all time great depression started exactly 16 years after the creation of the Federal Reserve. You cannot end greed it is a part of the natural consequence of the the way things work in the Universe as long as people aspire to anything. What you can however do is prevent a certain select group from having total control over the issuing of money that would go a long way to spreading the wealth you would think its obvious to take a printing press away from a vested interest.

[@emetts2112]

We really need to end the fed now. Doing this would yield much prosperity for the American people. Ya know its funny, when the financial crash was reeling in its ugly head in 2008, I said to my family this is the closest we will get to experiencing what it was like to be in the middle class. stuff got so much more affordable for a brief period of time. those were some good days

[@gideondavid30]

"A currency doesn't need to represent all wealth and production" Yeah it does! Otherwise, the value of the currency would become unreliable like FIAT money is today. "what represent what is not currently in the form of currency" Well it needs to be or that money is an arbitrary measure of wealth. When money didn't exist, people bartered. When we create money, we are essentially creating money to represent wealth so that when we BARTER, we are bartering with cash.

[@Tenebrousable]

No it doesn't. If economy was 1 dollar, and there was a car and an apple tree. The car could be sold at real price. Apple tree owner buys the car for debt. He then sells an apple for dollar every day to the debtor, and then uses that dollar to pay back the debtor. Your inherent confusion is to equate price discovery to instability. No, supply and demand curves shift, prices change, it's not arbitrary. It's price discovery.

[@Lurker1979]

Great video!. Just a aside, what building are they meeting in? It looks very impressive.

[@JDoubleOP]

Sorry, it's my crappy explanation. This belongs to my previous answer and is actually very simple. The values of our individual motivations have to change from "money making/greed/ego" to "healthy, happy, ungreedy, sustainable, comfort of living," So no war, hatred, jealousy, because there is no need to. Capitalism has helped to progress humanity, but we need to adapt to the new reality of advancing technology and the unsustainable depletion of our natural resources.

[@JDoubleOP]

Actually, you're saying the same as i am, with the difference that your ideal civilization still uses money. If we want our civilization on a higher level, we must use current knownledge from capitalism, socialism, communism and all the other ism's. Basicly all ism's have failures if you analyse them, but they also have good values. It's a matter of combining all the good things and create a new set of values out of it. That's what's evolution all about.

[@CurtHowland]

Sadly, the universe has scarcity. So we must deal with that scarcity. That's called "economizing", and any interference in people doing so causes problems.

[@Oldiesyoungies]

5:54 why do Austrians separate violence from capital? they are essentially the same thing, or at the very least have a fluctuating market exchange rate

[@dontbothertoreply9755]

False, first capital is almost everything of value second NAP, complete ignorance of libertarianism and a communist view of economy.

[@Oldiesyoungies]

@@dontbothertoreply9755 austrians know nothing of the NAP or liberty, austrain is stickly boom and bust cycle hyak just expanded upon it

[@gideondavid30]

Thanks for the commentary. Research MPE (Mathematically Perfected Economy).

[@JDoubleOP]

Is money a good??........or medium of exchange. I'm fully aware how the money supply works. And i agree with you and even sorry for you, that you aren't able to get the full picture. It's also my fault, because i've got limited space for typing.

[@JDoubleOP]

In the monetairy system, scarcity is created due to the system. Let's reconsidder: What do we really need in a world where we can live on a f.e. 30 times higher level as we do now, without all the waste and polution.

[@CurtHowland]

Time preference answers the "problem" of deflation, but don't tell the Keynesians, because they don't believe in time preference.

[@j4ck2234]

Oh my the 'zeitgeist' movement. I'm no expert on that but I think you should read Human Action by Ludwig von Mises. Without economic education it is difficult in these times to not fall victim to conspiratorial nonsense. If you post specific economic ideas I can tell you what's wrong with them if you like.

[@zsylvana]

The arbitrary action of the banks is by no means a necessary condition for the divergence; if loans were made in wheat and farmers (or for that matter the weather) 'arbitrarily changed' the quantity of wheat produced, the actual rate of interes on loans in terms of wheat would diverge from the rate on other commodities and there would be no single equilibrium rate" [P Sraffa: "Dr. Hayek on Money and Capital," pp. 42-53,The Economic Journal, vol. 42,9] Hayek admitted that this was a possibility,

[@gideondavid30]

The entire purpose of a currency is to have a UNIVERSAL DEMAND in order that trade may be done in the most efficient manner. Look what exists with China and the United States. Both countries are in a currency war. Tariffs and barriers to trade only create trouble. While I do understand the concept of COMPETITION and diversifying risk, it is the NATURE OF CURRENCY that is the problem ...whether monpolized by a government or not.

[@CurtHowland]

"So why use gold?" Me? Stability of supply. As someone else why they choose gold, you may get a different answer. Some will say, "I don't". "the same fate of terminal indebtedness" Bald assertion without support. Debt occurs because people take it on. Don't take it on, no debt.

[@JDoubleOP]

So what's your solution worldwide, if machines take over more and more, employability almost equal, purchasing power drops to 'zero'?

[@JDoubleOP]

According to your question: People want a stabile, healthy and lucky living.

[@NecessariusVerum]

And I thought that wouldn't be possible!

[@CurtHowland]

Why would anyone want "stable purchasing power"? The purchasing power of labor has constantly (at least until 1970) increased, meaning less work to buy the same goods. Stable purchasing power would require a fiat currency and constantly inflation of the money supply. And haven't we had enough of THAT?

[@CurtHowland]

Yes, you are. Good luck with that.

[@Dreamw0rxx]

Yes but understand that the paper money we are using now is NOT a commodity, because it can be created out of nothing at a moment's notice. We need a commodity as a currency, dollars used to be since they were pegged to gold, but now it isn't.

[@gideondavid30]

"So rather than use 1oz, I use 1/1000 oz, it doesn't matter" It does matter. That is like saying, there is not enough currency in circulation, so lets create a new coin that is worth less than a penny. I don't know, we will call it a Micropenny worth 1,000 of a dollar. Do you see the problem with this? While there may be plenty of these coins floathing around, they won't be worth jack shit. Prices will remain what they are.

[@PrivateAckbar]

I was wondering if any economists could give me a prediction. I wan't to live in a classical liberal country and I was wondering if anyone could estimate how quickly this Keynesian crisis will resolve itself? I'm in the U.K. at the moment and I hate the idea of engaging in all these socialist things like social security. I know that Signapore is suppose to be great but anyone have any advice?

[@CurtHowland]

Really? Where did I say that?

[@watgaanhieraan]

So when Icelandic banks failed it worked out for Iceland but it would not have worked out anywhere else? "duty of care" is when your balls are on the line and you face the consequences of your actions not some half arsed platitude towards some promised future fiduciary care. If so concerned about the depositors bail them out instead of the totally corrupt and incompetant stewards of that money and passing out conflict of interest waivers for corporate favorites.

[@JDoubleOP]

Utopian socialists can be seen as negative as well as positive. Quote: "They all said it's impossible, then one came who didn't know that and did it". Change mindset, let old patterns go and make next step in evolution of mankind. Then look back and say, those peeps were primitive in the 'monetairy system'. It's all EGO based. Our civilization is based on consciousness. You got 3 steps of consciousness; 1. individual 2. global, 3. universal. Over time we will grow from the first to the third.

[@chrishawkins5371]

It has happened for most of human history.

[@madamakaz]

Sources?

[@seriouslyyoujest1771]

Buy Bitcoin, and HODL! 2010 - 10K Bitcoin = 2 pizzas 2011 - 1 Bitcoin = $1 2017 - 1 Bitcoin = 1 Oz Gold Today - 1 Bitcoin = 6.89 Oz Gold

[@pipewerkz]

I was waiting for someone to talk about this issue with a lot of Ron Paul supporters. It's the same group that sits on Facebook and spends all day trashing Romney. He is no better than Obama, but Obama is the president, why waste time going soley after Romney.

[@metalboostable]

Well, government through the treasury sounds like a typical Prof Hankel argument.

[@j4ck2234]

But the whole point of 'making money' is sustenance. We work to be able to afford healthcare and aquire things that we think will make us or our friends and family happy. If material factors actually do make us happy is a different subject. The concept of greed, which is in my opinion the neurotic disorder to acquire wealth for the sake of acquiring wealth, is not a necessary part of the capitalist system. It just exists within some actors within the system.

[@LucidDream101]

This guy is awesome! He articulates his point of view beautifully. I wish I had him for my economics professor. My college only taught Keynesian economics and she was a real bitch. You couldn't ask questions because she would get snippy as if it's some kind of subtle debate and she's always right. Economics has a lot of gray. She taught in black and white. I was very disappointed that semester even if I did pass. I really wanted to learn it and she couldn't fit the bill.

[@joepeeler34]

In order to have all the gold money, you would have to sell all the gold's value in the world in product. Then you would never be able to spend it. Then you still have to pay your employees in gold. It's nonsense that any person or any small group of people could control the entire gold supply. Has anyone or any small group been able to monopolize the paper currency supply? No, because it is impossible!! Same with gold/silver if they were monies. The classical gold standard worked fine.

[@JDoubleOP]

Knowing that worldwide; production rises quick, employability almost equal, purchasing power drops quick? Interest almost zero, some deflation to come, the shit hits the fan, hyperinflation to come. Japan over 20 years in recession, BRICS growing fast, EU/UK/US no words neccesary. You think we go back to horse and wagon?? RBE isn't perfect at all, but if technology will do more and more with all respect; what's your proposal for mankind without making the same mistakes over and over?

[@gideondavid30]

1) So why use gold? IF we can arbitrary set its worth by diluting the metal so to speak (like the Romans did), those that save gold will find that its value has declined. The entire reason for using gold was due to the fact that it had inherent worth. Even if we artificially set the DEMAND FOr it, how can it constantly represent all our wealth and production? 2) Competing/commodity currencies all suffer the same fate of terminal indebtedness.

[@JDoubleOP]

People still will be working, but way less than we do now. Machines will do more and more. Industrial revolution did the same and gave us the first enhanced tools, now we will make the next step in evolution of mankind = the technology people. But how do you improve the current 'monetairy system' to a healthy fraudefree system. As long as people can be bought, there will be fraude. Rudolf Steiner said in 1918: "In the end everyone will be unhappy"

[@j4ck2234]

Then why did the entire planet evolve a gold based currency? Maybe because transporting 5000000tons of bronze isn't too much fun.

[@gideondavid30]

"Stability of supply" Anything finite can never represent all our wealth and production at all times. Therefore, a gold standard (or any commodity) is inherently unstable.

[@JDoubleOP]

The 4 dislikes must have had mouse coordination problems or watch on a daily rate "the bold and the beautiful"

[@bungeebones]

The very idea that the United States was even on a "gold standard" is propaganda. The US has, from it's inception, been on a DOLLAR standard which was is existance even before the US became a country (evidenced by the fact the word "dollar" is used in the Constitution BEFORE it was even ratified and before the passing of the Coin Act and the establishment of US mints). For something to be a "standard" it needs to be established and fixed (such as "gallons", "feet", "inches" etc.) which the dollar was, indeed, fixed at approximately one ounce (another standard) of silver of a certain purity but that standard describing the dollar was informal (because it was based on the existing and widely circulating Spanish mill dollars). The Federal Reserve Notes and all the private bank notes issued were promises to PAY dollars, thus, the "standard" used in their issuance was, in fact, the "dollar" as are all legal documents to this day. Unfortunately, ALL those modern contracts aren't actually using real dollars as their settlement but are, in fact, referring to settlement in Federal Reserve Notes (i.e. it is understood between the parties that payment will be made in F.R.N.s). And there has never been a US GOLD dollar (only silver ones). Such a coin today would be too small to issue at $1 worth of gold as was true throughout US history (which is why gold coins had face values declaring they were MANY dollars despite being only one coin). One gold coin declaring it was 35 DOLLARS goes against basic grammar and doesn't make the one coin 35 "dollars". Also, since it was illegal to own gold privately from 1931 to 1974 it is impossible for it (gold) to be operating as "the standard"! The TRUE hard money this country was built on was the silver dollar. Other hard money was issued in gold, copper, and nickel but were issued with nominal values in relationship to the dollar standard but their actual value in commerce was actually derived from the relative market values of their respective metals (there is no fixed exchange rate saying that 100 copper coins are equal one silver coin or twenty nickel coins equal one silver coin etc)..

[@dontbothertoreply9755]

False, trade was used in Gold, second precious metal was always be the standard on reserve, complete ignorance of economic history.

[@bungeebones]

@@dontbothertoreply9755 Not false. Being used for trade is a far cry from being a "standard". All sorts of things can be used for trade (whatever the parties agree to). Besides, the concept of "the gold standard" had nothing to do with trade but with currency (fiat currency specifically) and there was NEVER a gold "dollar" (they were and still are -legally - silver coins).

[@CurtHowland]

That which is not scarce is not an economic good and does not require economizing. That which is not scarce has no prices, so is not involved with what you called "stable purchasing power". Therefore, you told me there was scarcity. If that's not what you were talking about, why did you bring it up?

[@Keimh3regPeh2uMeg]

20:12 is gold! No pun intended.