Anthony Mackie's "America" Controversy at Cap 4 Junket, New Spider-Man is Not "Woke" | THE NATION

[@NadeemShekh-uy9zn]

Mackie said nothing wrong honestly

[@JohnRochaSays]

@@NadeemShekh-uy9zn I don’t disagree. But the venue he chose to say this in was the issue. You’re on a promotional tour to get as many people as possible to see the movie, not alienate people who might want to see it.

[@Vulcanerd]

In addition, what he said, even when, was such a mild statement (not even offensive) that if this is what it's going to take to be outraged, mothball all the interviews, red carpet events, etc, b/c someone, somewhere will get outraged (genuinely or a tactic) and the left will clutch their pearls and wring their hands. The right seig heils and gaslights us for getting upset, while we can't even push back on the least offensive things.

[@ERA_STUDIOS]

I think what it is that everyone knew what he said and what he meant, is just that they didn’t like it and took it out of context

[@kamsolusar8529]

I agree. Black people have a different relationship to this country than other groups. They even addressed this complicated relationship on Falcon and Winter Soldier. Since Black people were forced here, brought in chains, Mackie can say whatever he wants about the US. I get what John is saying about appropriate timing since this was a press junket where people are promoting the movie. At the same time, I think this is a fantastic example of how entertainment and art clash - the former prioritizes profit over ethics, and the latter prioritizes ethics/principles over profit. The reality is that movies in Hollywood only have value if they make enough money. Studios can pretend that they care about racial and social justice themes, but they want the films to make money at the end of the day. It's how capitalistic societies function, we know that. At the same time, I understand the importance in speaking truth to power and there can never be change without disruption. The civil rights act was passed because Black activists and their allies fought against injustice, against the status quo, and that was not without people being killed, namely Malcolm X and MLK Jr. Muhammad Ali lost his prime years for standing up for his principles and beliefs. That's inspiring. I don't place Mackie on the same level as Ali, but I respect him being honest here (and I think John respects that too). It just sucks that the industry is like this and you have to be superficial at times to sell your film. Regardless of what you believe, I think this incident could spark a much needed conversation about the entertainment industry in general.

[@clarissa182]

The way I took Anthony's comments was that he's in Europe promoting the film, but was asked what it meant to him. Even within Falcon/Winter Soldier and from what we can tell from the trailer, no one is looking at a black man superhero to be the representative of this country. So Anthony is saying in a sense that Captain America is bigger than just being "America". He represent more. It seems like he's just wants the character to be viewed as more. I feel like he said that to an international audience to in a way say you can still look at him maybe outside of the "America" aspect, to be more relatable on a morals and belief level, considering how the orange is currently making enemies of everyone. IDK. I'm fine with it. We are often silenced and I am tired of us having to play along to get by when no one else is playing by the same rules. You had a lot of great points, Rocha!

[@tttttvbbbbyyyy691]

let’s not forget Mackie was in Italy 🇮🇹 trying to appeal to a global audience in regards to a film called ‘Captain AMERICA’ 🇺🇸

[@KnightFoxx1190]

Mackie said nothing wrong! Just to support him and the movie, I bought 8 IMAX tickets to see the movie with my family opening day.

[@wolfbane7497]

Then those tickets are worthless

[@KnightFoxx1190]

@@wolfbane7497 You say they’re worthless, yet, the theatre I’m going to is selling out. Lmao!!! Hating must be your occupation.

[@wolfbane7497]

@@KnightFoxx1190 hey it's your money man if you want to waste it on this movie that's your prerogative. But I don't think this movie is going to do very good chief don't get me wrong you'll do well opening day but you know you buying eight tickets do you have eight friends to go with you because if you don't then it's kind of worthless that you bought them if you have no one to sit with

[@KnightFoxx1190]

@@wolfbane7497 Hate harder hater!!! 😂

[@ZachBobBob]

Captain America is an inherently political character and the US is a shit show right now. There's no way Mackie can totally avoid getting political or avoid talking about America on this press tour. People say this isn't the time or place but it's the perfect time and place. If conservatives wanna be offended by him that's on them.

[@Vulcanerd]

Precisely. And we don’t need to be carrying their water every there’s the most innocuous of (not even) slip ups. They’re the eff your feelings crowd decrying how they can’t freely express themselves (even though no one stops them). Let them stew in the crap stew of their own making. We don’t need to be apologizing for their fragile egos.

[@JohnRochaSays]

My point is that a junket where you’re there to promote the movie and get as many people as possible to see the movie is not the place for it. And it isn’t. An interview after the film has come out and hopefully been successful is the place to do it.

[@ZachBobBob]

@@JohnRochaSays I get ya, I just don't think his comments were even that controversial and with a movie like this it's impossible not to talk about America. The people angry at him are looking for reasons to be outraged and probably weren't going to see the movie anyway. I reckon normal people don't even have this story on their radars

[@wolfbane7497]

He's an actor he plays pretend for a living all he had to do was just sell the movie that's what he is that's what he should have been doing selling the movie selling the brand to entice people to watch the movie

[@ZachBobBob]

@wolfbane7497 Is IS selling the movie to the Europeans he's speaking to by saying that Captain America isn't just about America. It's not his fault people got triggered.

[@runningdude212]

Will always and forever support the Outlaw!! Really miss the Stereo days and getting to talk Drag Race with the Lady Outlaw. Much love to you both!

[@JohnRochaSays]

Ha! She is still watching all the seasons from all the countries on WOW. We have to bring back our show soon!

[@runningdude212]

@JohnRochaSays I'm right there with her!! Usually actively watching 2 or 3 seasons of the different drag race franchises year round now haha! The Traitors as well!!

[@eoghandonnelly8334]

Hey John loving the effort your making to do more live shows! Always love hearing your commentary and feelings about current affairs and movie news, great entertainment! Keep up the great work 🎉

[@Vulcanerd]

I have to agree with Rich T about what he said about MAGA and the whole debate of left and right in the (edit: livestream) comments. We can play the whole "enlightened centrism" BS, but we've seen the fallout of the consequences of voting right versus left. If you look at policy, Obama passed the ACA which has helped /tens/ of millions of Americans, not allowing pre-existing conditions, not letting insurance companies put lifetime (or even annual) caps on coverage. He decreased the annual deficit (which is still too large so that the interest on our debts, alone, keep increasing the debt), among other things. Biden righted the ship after 500k Americans died to covid b/c Trump said you needed to treat it with ivermectin or by injecting bleach... after he was the one that fastracked the vaccine. You can't make this stuff up. The Inflation Reduction Act saw inflation go down below 3.0% which is lower than many parts of Europe or even places like Japan, but b/c Americans don't understand economics, think that corporate price gouging (we see many industries making record making profits and people like Bezos, Musk are 4 and 5 and 10 times richer than before despite not doing anything revolutionary or innovative in their fields) is the same thing. What's Trump's contribution to American policies? A tax break so massive to the richest of the rich, it increased our national debt by ~$8 trillion accounting for, at the time, nearly 25% of our the total. Oh, we also stripped bodily autonomy from half of the population so that hospitals are turning women away to let them die alone at home. /That's/ his contribution to America. Never mind splitting immigrant/refugee families some of whom, to this day, have not been made whole. Never mind leaving our Kurdish allies to die after they bled and died for us in Turkey. How about attempting to blackmail a foreign leader for political dirt on his opponent? And this doesn't even scratch a 10th, maybe a 100th of what he's done. Then, let's look at the # of Democrat WH officials versus Republican officials who have been prosecuted for misconduct and breaking laws... it's something like 200 to 1. And that doesn't even include Trump era numbers. Voting has consequences. There is a 1:1 correlation between getting Trump in office and Roe v Wade being overturned. Btw, there's now talk of a national ban and overturning gay marriage, too. Imagine that. All these 'good' Trump voters who are nice to me or are nice to my neighbor or whomever... /actively/ voted to strip people of rights. Actively voted to have climate change and vaccine and science deniers in office. And what happens when the next covid level pandemic hits and another million Americans die? We can take comfort in knowing that, "but, my neighbor (R) voter didn't vote for that..." Bullshit. So, when people tell me, 'well, both sides are bad... forgive me if I don't believe it. Are Dems innocent? No. Are they involved with sketchy stuff? Some are, no doubt. And when that happens, be it Anthony Weiner or Bob Menendez who's going to be serving 11 years in prison, we drum them out. But, when people then conflate that to, "well, both sides do the same thing..." Bullshit. Let me know when Dems are inciting insurrections on the Capitol. Dems get punched in the face and their instinct is to wring their hands and go, "well, maybe it was something I said or something I did that was wrong..." Metaphorically equating jaywalking to vehicular homicide is going to see you and us continually have to work twice as hard to simply tread water. What happened when the economy tanked in 08 under Bush? We got Obama who cleaned up his mess. What happened after covid and the economy tanking from Trump and his tax cuts? We elected Biden to right the ship. But, so long as Dems give cover to (good) Republicans, it's exactly what MLK talked about with the white moderate. You wind up continually having to swim simply to keep your head above water b/c they're the anchor weighing us all down. And what's worse? We saw Trump 1.0. We saw the $8 trillion explosion of our national debt, we saw 500k Americans die. We saw immigrants and refugees split up and actual inflation go up. We knew he was the guy that not just said grab them by the pu$$sy, we know he's assaulted women and he has been adjudicated as such in a court of law. We see him continually violate law after law after law. And ~73m /still/ voted for this. And one week into his 2.0 administration, we have a propaganda newscaster for a SecDef, 1600 insurrectionists on the streets (you know, the thing Trump said other countries do, let loose violent criminals on to the streets), a press secretary who can't tell the difference between the country of Colombia and the District of Columbia, and our sisters, mothers, cousins, gf's, wives, neighbors continue to die b/c of what happened with RvW. No amount of someone being nice to my face who voted for that is getting off the hook. So long as we keep giving them a pass, they will take their inch. Then they'll convince us to give another inch, then another. 50 years later, that's what women had to learn the hard way. No.

[@KnightFoxx1190]

Don’t stop with the Geek Buddies!

[@jim1242]

The Tom Holland Spiderman movies were diverse (MJ, Ned, Flash Thompson), but most of the audiance had no problem with these castings , all the actors did a great job playing these characters. Im hoping to see more of Jacob Batalon and Tony Revolori in Spiderman 4!

[@SteelerSpartan]

meh,Im not particularly excited for the movie but its rather ridiculous to want to make any sort of controversy out of those comments... Im really quite tired of the double standard of people having to be extra careful with what they say so people who claim presidents who wear tan suits are disgraceful....don't feel offended.

[@Vulcanerd]

Yep. They get offended that Obama wore a tan suit or used mustard while we /watched/ their co-President seig heiling… /twice/… and are proud of it.

[@JGfromSpace.]

I like this live format you’re experimenting with. Keep it up! 👍

[@PuertoGeekan]

Does Thomas Hanes know what "woke" means? This new Spider-Man show is as "woke" as they come, in the best sense of the word. A multicultural cast, dealing with layered issues touching on poverty, privilege, and racial profiling, just to name a few. I think this show is off to a great start, and I think Hanes doesn't know what he's talking about.

[@tylerhenk87]

Anthony Mackie said absolutely nothing wrong imo. Steve Rogers didnt always agree with the government in the 1st 3 phases. It isnt anti American as ive seen some people say, its anti corruption and bigotry I think.

[@JohnRochaSays]

Agreed. It’s more about him saying it in a promotional junket meant to sell the movie to people rather than in an interview discussing the role…that’s this issue.

[@tylerhenk87]

@@JohnRochaSays Yeah I get that, it just sucks people twisted his words like that. But a time and place I suppose.

[@q2k100]

I don't, I just don't see where Mackie was wrong here. I get your point about the junket thing, but it wasn't something he just did off the cuff. He just answered a question, which is always layered because of the character, in a way that wasn't that charged. To me, the people who don't want this movie and were always going to find any reason to bash it were going to be mad no matter what. This is literally the character they supposedly love. Everyone besides those types didn't have an issue. It was only and obviously the loud idjits per usual (shout out Supernatural). Also, I made the Spidey pic 😂.

[@BarnesGannon]

Damn, 3 hour show! Can't wait to watch this one back

[@Magdalena8008s]

Regarding Mackie. He's not wrong. As you addressed already. It wasn't a long form interview where he could really express himself to the fullest extent. I think if he could go back, he'd explain himself in a better way. I think. Don't want to speak for him. I definitely understand your perspective. Dont disagree with what he said, but could have just gone about it in a better format at a different time. Because obviously anything he says is under a microscope. And regarding the Blake and Justin situation. He does seem like a creep.

[@jim1242]

The daredevil Showrunner also made some Controversial comments recently. With all thats being going on this week + never ending Rachel Zegler Saga, working in Disney PR most be working overtime at the moment!

[@tylerschoon237]

Almost 3 hours. Beautiful.

[@sparkyAR]

someone needs a lesson in colonialism and imperialism... If he thinks spanish is the language of poor countries, wait till he finds out how poor the former french colonies are, Haiti is the poorest country in the americas, and don´t even get me started on the french colonies in africa, actually the poorest countries in the world

[@JohnRochaSays]

Yep. He’s a moron.

[@briandavison8306]

Really enjoyed this stream, Rocca.

[@jim1242]

I guess Hudson Thames was trying to say he was affraid it was going to come off as pandering, and overly politically correct, token diversity, ticking boxes over actual real representation (which some interpret as the meanning woke). But yes I think he should have clarified this.

[@JohnRochaSays]

Exactly my point.

[@jim1242]

2:29:00 Not to mention, so many mid buget action drama and comedy movies go straight to streaming now ( Wolfs, Beverly Hills cop 4, Carry on, every adam sandler and kevin hart movie), When one does actually come out in theatres like Flight Risk, not as many people will not pay to see it like they did 15 years ago, when there is now so much similar content at home for free. Also a lot of television series have movie level budgets and star power these days ( Andor, Penguin, House of the Dragon etc) that provides hours of content for free, vs 2 hours that you have to pay for at the theatres. Its not like the 90s, where most TV was sitcoms or procedurals and to see a big buget action or big stars in a comedy or drama you had to go to the theatre. No way a movie star like Harrison Ford or Nicole Kidman would star in a tv series back then , like they do now as that is some of the only roles they get execpt if it is a part in a marvel movie.

[@scottelement]

Unrelated to this subject but will you be doing a watch along to Royal Rumble on Saturday?

[@jim1242]

Its on Netflix here on Canada! But not sure if it will be too in the US. Will Sami side with Kevin and turn on Cody, or will he turn on Kevin?!

[@Vulcanerd]

I remember Rocha saying something about this, but generally, I think he said not. Maybe he would explore it as a Patreon watchalong or something? I think he didn't think it was all that exciting for people to watch him say something or react to something every 10 minutes or so or sitting there w/o that much going on for long stretches? I wish I could point to the timestamp, but it's like... within the first hour or so? Best I can do, sorry.

[@Masklessvizard]

Rocha my brotha!! WE DEFINITELY GIVE a😂 SHIT!!! much love my guy!!

[@JohnRochaSays]

Thank you!

[@jorgecortes6273]

That voicemail was so...there is so many wrong things with it. I'm personally on neither side but I find it very interesting that most, if not all, articles and people's opinions are about Blake. I have not seen one person or article about him doing bad things in the past. I'm not implying that he has, but it is interesting to me how videos of her, articles about her, and people who worked with her are all over social media, yet nothing can be said about him. If someone can link to at least one I will probably change my mind, but everywhere I go it is about Blake and only Blake. How bad she is. How she did this and how she did that. Yes, it was all about him when The NYT published the article, and how the podcast dropped him and all, but nothing more than that.

[@JohnRochaSays]

Agreed. There is a history with Blake. Not so much with him.

[@jorgecortes6273]

@@JohnRochaSays Do you think that's what is also shaping whose side people get on? I know him from Jane the Virgin because my sister was obsessed with that show. I'm surprised the main star from that show has not defended him or anybody from that cast has said anything about him (both positive and negative).

[@zaywhitt502]

U are right tho I got a home theater Rocha. I havent been to the movies since Endgame. I have ZERO reason to go deal with all that 😅 Btw u MUST check out Attack on Titan it’s one of the best shows you’ll ever see. It’s an anime 🙌🏽

[@masterteacher101]

Was any series any good in 2024? You should start suggesting shows to watch. I haven’t enjoyed watching streaming tv in 2024 or 2025. Last shows I enjoyed were s1 of “Gangs Of London” & s1 of “The Interview With The Vampire”. Didn’t enjoy season 2 of either, nearly as much.

[@JohnRochaSays]

I did suggest a bunch in the intro, but I’ll do a better job of it in the future.

[@masterteacher101]

I kinda tuned out a bit, when I heard a reality show title. My bad. I’m not a reality show fan. 🤣😅😂

[@Erick-es3ip]

More live shows 😄

[@TheDisruptiveOne]

Probably. everything is so politically charged right now, it is bad for business to give any kind of real answers to questions. actors should just give out boring rehearsed answers and the studios should also reduce the campaign schedule; less opportunities for the talent to say the wrong thing.

[@Jon-lp6qu]

39:04 lmao

[@emmanuelu]

What’s the significance of a Trader Joe’s being next to a Sprout?

[@JohnRochaSays]

One is higher priced than the other. Just saying that the area caters to everyone and their tastes equally.

[@WayneE42]

I live close to Culver City. On Slauson Ave there is a Trader Joe's and a Sprouts right across from each other. They cater to similar customers. I chuckled when Rocha said that. 😁

[@JohnRochaSays]

@@WayneE42 Similar in that they are human, but different income brackets....and you know it. Ha

[@carlagisellemosquera7008]

I hear all the time from you guys living in the US, how going to the movie theater can be difficult because of bad manners and degrading etiquette. I have yet to experience that in my country thankfully. Maybe someone may talk a bit loud but one nasty look and it's over. Maybe French director Jacques Audiard can learn something about us, be a little more aware, and do the research he forgot to do when filming Emilia Pérez. And find out that South American countries have manners. Maybe we are "poor, migrants, or whatever other kind of nonsense he said," but we still know how to behave in a movie theater at least. What a stupid thing to say really, he should just stay quiet and celebrate that he's getting all these award nominations. We all know why this movie is getting all this attention, it's just artists patting themselves on the back for being "progressive" and misunderstanding that they are insulting instead. Latin American stereotypes are everywhere but we have to give him credit, at least he didn't use the sepia filter... lol. Sorry had to rant a little, just being a bit sarcastic.

[@Vulcanerd]

Yeah, I've been very lucky where I live now, too. No one is looking at their phones, chatter is at an absolute minimum, the lights don't even come on until after all the credits roll (though no one is bothered if you slip out during the credits, either).

[@MarkTara]

Magazine Dreams - WOW!

[@philipho188]

I won't see Cap 4 not for his current comments but previously, he blames China for bad movies. No one in China can tell Marvel what movies to make. And no one told them to make movies where story was crap and characters are not organic to the story. But I wish him good luck! :)

[@terrellinc22]

Regarding Anthony-I'm sorry, but he has one job: promote the movie. Yes, he is a man of color, but his priority should be to promote the movie. This is a superhero film featuring a character with 'America' in their name. Read the room-this isn't Capitol Hill. You've worked so hard to reach this pinnacle in your career, only to jeopardize it because you're dissatisfied with the current state of America. I understand-I’m a Black gay man-but I know how to read a room. In my board meeting last week, I didn’t go on a diatribe about the injustices I believe are coming to this country. Simply put: do your job and promote the movie. Then, once you've gained the significant platform that comes with the film’s success, use it to speak your mind and defend your stance.