Anvil Terrapin's Radar Is Becoming Functional | Anvil Terrapin Radar Test #1 | SC Science & Fun 4k

[@drakedge2000]

Now they need systems interlocking between grouped up ships so that the Turtle can alert accompanying fighters with the same data.

[@canardboiteux4317]

yeah like a space AWACS, data link would be so good but it could be problematic with abandoned ships

[@curly_]

@CIG this , thank you

[@TheAngriestGamer.]

its called data link, and yes it should beable to be shared between alliance. clan, and squad/party, with the ship picking which channels to push the data to. UI on fighters needs to follow DCS cuz the MFD and Hud is SC is Trash, DCS lets you know if what youre looking at is friendly or hostile and if the data is coming from you or a doner source.

[@gxkjerrygao7635]

What you described is called data-link. It's a common feature among Gen 4 fighters irl. They absolutely should add that in Star Citizen

[@michaelsmith953]

Within cells interlocked

[@McBainAx]

I would love to see the Terrapin become a ship like an AWACS and locate land vehicles and info from bases, etc...

[@Warsheep2k6]

Wasn't that the original intention for the turtle in fleetbattles

[@Lord_IckisDickus]

thats the whole idea of that ship

[@StarWave2]

Pretty sure that’s the plan. To detect incoming stealth aircraft or aircraft in general before your base gets nuked so you can send fighters to shot them down

[@spider0804]

Thanks for testing, your entire channel is stuff I hop on to do regularly but you have the effort to document it and I appreciate that because you constantly answer questions I have.

[@house382]

This is not the Terrapin being fixed, this is how pinging works. You get increased scanning distance/returns for the low, low cost of lighting up like a freaking Christmas tree. At least that's how it'll work once Delta Signatures are implemented. Terrapin should be able to sit silently and be able to monitor an area WITHOUT pinging. That's the whole point of it shutting up the ship and cooking the insides until you blow out the heat. If this is 'fixed' the Terp Gang are gonna riot.

[@gmangator]

Since it can be detected so closely, they should allow its radar to detect ships 1000 km out (or something more significant) so it can avoid detection and provide intel to friendlies.

[@BeansWorld-v3e]

No the terrapin ain't stealth. it's supposed to be like irl awacs, strong radar but can be detected aswell

[@TiltedTortle]

Right, we still have to wait for the scanning changes for it to be "fixed". But what this test says to me is that, as long as its not a bug, the pilot chair has a size 2 radar but the scanning dish is itself a size 3 which was my main concern when they sold the cutter scout for 1/4th the price and what seems to be better components (bigger cooler/same size radar). "has more armor" is not worth $160 on what is suppose to be THE quintessential small scanning ship.

[@wun1gee]

@@BeansWorld-v3e From Whitley's Guide in January 2023 - so a fairly recent lore post. In a noteworthy 2944 engagement, a flight of six Scythe fighters happened into a quartet of Terrapins operating with systems low in stealth mode as part of a training observation. With their emissions low, the Terrapin crews spent a terrifying eight minutes avoiding detection before ultimately being in a position to turn the table and get the jump on the Vanduul. The UEEN flight suffered damage but lost no spacecraft, while five of the six Scythes were destroyed. Gun camera footage was not able to determine the fate of the sixth, but it is considered to be a probable kill. Terrapin is indeed supposed to be able to operate in stealth mode while undetected.

[@Shanex250]

@@BeansWorld-v3e That's not true at all. If you build for Stealth for the ship, it's detection ranges can be pretty low while it's upped radar it can detect things much farther than ships of it's size. A Terrapin might as well be an ant to a fleet because you going to see capitals and the anyone decked out in military/industrial components from super far away, well beyond what the terrapin could be detected. Even with it's stock components at present, it has a lower detection that most ships that don't come with stealth components.

[@orhanincekara5081]

Testing idea: impact of visibility on radar range, behind mountain etc, also small ship next to carrack, in carrack, etc to see if big ship masks smaller ship

[@greygamer6220]

Always doing the dirty work for science, gotta love it, thx for the info!

[@hellgeist_]

Those two lights on the inside of the cockpit that were constantly glaring into your face are now gone - MAJOR improvement!

[@everettumphrey]

Thanks for testing, how about the Cutter Scout and or the Aroura Scout?

[@kabevo9186]

Pinging and locking also works from the Pilot Seat in every ship. Its nothing Special atm from the Terrapin. IT would BE nice If the Radarchair in the Terrapin Had a better Radar than the Pilot.

[@masteryoda7314]

Testing Idea. Check with a third friendly ship to see if the terrapin shares the target

[@jaysonrees738]

I've been under the impression that there would be different specialization for scans. Stuff like general purpose, mining, organic, and exploration. Having a wide range of scans, and lots of information to be had in such scans could be really fun. Glad to see it getting attention.

At 3:11 you can still see his power output on top of the scan UI, so "unknown" is still giving a good chance to guess it's a ship and not something else.

[@danlewis2999]

Does this work in the Aquila radar seat?

[@andylester4503]

how about the MSR scan chair?? 😅

[@migtin688]

Something tells me that is more about scaning for data.

[@Dracounguis]

Yeah that's really not a detection thing. That's a data intercept thing.

[@thepurpleperp4564]

@@Dracounguis"Dedicated scanning ships, or ships equipped with dedicated scanners are built around that gameplay, which is not what the Mercury is built for. The Mercury’s scanners are only good enough to intercept local communications, rather than scanning of unknown areas or picking up low signatures at distance like the Terrapin can. " from the MSR Q&A

[@andylester4503]

Are you guys saying its not worth testing ?

[@Dracounguis]

I would say the awacs ability. Should go out to 50 km because that's the theoretical range of a torpedo. But seeing how most ships can't even launch from that distance because they can't see targets from that distance, maybe give scanning ships like this 15-20km _without_ having to ping. Obviously purpose-built stealth ships could get closer.

[@ghazman6141]

Wow...after all these years. It almost gives me hope for the Carrack modules. :) I guess we just needed to have patience while they completed SQ 42.

[@benmiller200]

No we should express srong contemp for embezzlement of R&D monies ment for SC being used for a single player game. 42 is theft.

[@ghazman6141]

@@benmiller200 You have a valid point.

[@Citizen-Nurseman]

Pretty interesting Something going on I do find it very confusing on this point because they mixed 'show radar markers' with ping also in the latest Live version So Ping isn't just a radar thing, its a HUD thing, and I think thats a mistake on CIG's part to mix those together like actively pinging should be highlighting YOU just as much as its highlighting them But tbh, for Pathfinders to be useful, they need to be able to communicate this to other squadron members and thats not gonna happen anytime soon imo

[@YouCountSheep]

They let all this slide for way to long having so many exploration ships and not knowing what scanning should look like as opposed to radar.

[@charlespickering2726]

Very nice that is a pretty strong little radar. Nice to see that it is starting to get a use for its scanning radar.

[@btr003]

Something like this would be great with pin targeting. So the Terrapin can find the targets and pin them, and then group members can target pinned targets.

[@brazos3737]

Nice. work. I would not have thought of this. I wish CIG would let us know more about these features they are working on.

[@Iyumni]

Two ships that may be good for testing if radar scanning is becoming an active gameplay feature (instead of just the Gold Standard pass for The Terrapin) would be The Mercury Star Runner first and foremost, and then The Constellation Aquila. Both ships have independent, seated radar stations (as opposed to "remote"/co-pilot operated stations).

[@elredo7277]

Could you include the drake cutter scout in your testing.

[@admiralkun8996]

You can see when you’re looking at him through the ping on the terrapin radar, the “signal” goes down the farther away and you weren’t able to see him once your signal went to 0, so it’s a good way to see when the ship will drop out of your range

[@Zer0KageX]

I wonder if the pilot seat would have the same range as the scanning seat if you used the ping and pierce features. Thanks for documenting the science!

[@steppahouse]

Excellent testing! What is the match for radar size vs em output on the target?

[@fauxtrot2010]

If you could combine this with a larger ship’s holo viewer, this could become a consideration for fleet composition.

[@QuantariousBitsoniTalvanen]

As you were pinging, you weren't losing contact, it's just that it's was resetting/refreshing it's lock after the ping occurred so when you were hitting it multiple times in a row it looked like you lost contact.

[@emperor_pewpew2903]

Activating ping is not radar.... but this is very interesting

[@Dracounguis]

Technically it is. Active radar versus passive.

[@jamescossey6372]

Something that actually is very important. When the person in the radar chair scans a Target further out, can the pilot or someone in a military also Target them. I would think it would allow everyone on the current ship to see what the scanning person is detecting. If say I'm in a Polaris and I'm trying to Ambush some ships further out since it has Max 50 km range. I would think firing from 30km range would be ideal for ambushing a group. I almost even think people in a party on different ships should get information even if it's only for 10 sec at a time. Would love to see a polaris firing torps at a group of 3 or more hammerhead from 30km out

[@Dracounguis]

In my opinion you shouldn't have to ping to find him. Because the ping itself will (should) give you away. Not exactly what you want for a stealthy scout ship! I wouldn't technically call this 'working'. And why wouldn't you give the pilot access to the giant radar dish? At least in the forward arc. Sounds like an artificial divide just to justify having a second crewman.

[@TheEVEInspiration]

Now we need to be able to share the scanned result with other ships.

[@eric.c.bullock]

Can you please figure distances in actual km but % also! Thank you for all you do!

[@TRONRINZLER]

Really hoping the Terrapin can survey planets, ground surveys, resources all sorts of informations and explorations because it was marketed as a ship that can survive harsh environments and an exploration ship as well as a pathfinder/mapping jump points/wormholes. Hope it doesn't end up as just a military scout for just ship info/scanning.

[@newhampguy]

“Oop, I lost you.... Oh wait, I found you again! OOP! looks like again I- wait, I pinged and fou- oop, lost like I lo-.... oooh, when I ping it loses and finds you again - oh wait, I lost you! Oop, looks like I found you again with the ping!”

[@friendlyspacedragon7250]

It's nice that the functionality is now in the game but it needs some balancing. That extra range you get seems hardly worth the second person in the chair. And it's giving more of the Scorpius DS vibes even if it's a little more involved.

[@vairoalexnder]

i would argue you test the signature its self rather than the target locking, maybe the dedicated Terrapin's reader seat can give better results in finding vary far signutres since its an exploration ship and its reader suppose to find signatures thousands of killomaters far, but anyway thnx for the amazing work.

[@RoyHobbs-f4v]

... you are correct. There essentially should be two-modes: a wide-field-array and a narrow-field-array. The wide-field should replicate the characteristics of a "quantum-sensor" or neutrino-sensor and have incredibly high-frequency, low-attenuation and high-range capabilities. The narrow-field should replicate modern, conventional aircraft-radar with low-frequency, low-range and high attenuation capabilities.

[@hvasdf]

Also test if radar user sees the target is it shared to a pilot. So normally pilot wouldn't see the target but someone using actively radar could bring the target back for the pilot too.

[@sebc8938]

I wonder if the better radar range in the radar seat is dependent of the direction pointed in the remote turret. Maybe in the pilot seat, the ping is omnidirectional but is directionnal and more powerfull in the radar seat. So to find targets at long rang, the radar user should ping in many directions one at a time. But this would means the user should be able to chose the directionnality of its ping. You could also test if being close to an asteroid, a big ship, the ground, behind a hill or next to a station effectively hide your signature from passive radar and ping.

[@Slavic_Bard23]

It's funny how the in-game discussion here is about how much radar range it is to focus a target at 20-30 km, when in the real world astronomers are able to focus a radar signal millions of kilometers with pintpoint accuracy. 😀

[@thediadect8914]

Yes except those radars are colossal and highly sensitive pieces of equipment that you can't strap to a combat ship. Although an f22 can get radar lock 250+ km away and can fire 120+ km away. I guess Chris gave SC magical radar ablative plating

[@RoyHobbs-f4v]

... radio-astronomy exclusively attenuates and interprets "received" wave-forms. These are certainly "long-distance" signals... but have been very-difficult to focus in the past without massive detectors to differentiate between phase-forms. Fortunately, high-speed electronics now permit for smaller, complex, multi-pass detectors like the "James Webb". Emissive-radar is another subject, entirely. Limitations regarding size and source-energization make focusing and attenuating reflective-emission over long-distance quite-difficult... especially if you are looking for a breadth of target-information and not just the presence of a potential-target. Modern airborne military-systems are extremely-limited in range when discussing "complex", reflective radar-emission.

[@victorio404]

You didn't try to ping from the pilot seat though. Probably works same as the scan chair?

[@Caennuck]

Scanning is being actively worked on and is likely going to pair with the release of the Nyx system

[@ravield666]

Good morning really interesting all that, thank you for the test I also think that the terrapin has reworked because its new coming variant It would be good to also test the cutter scout which is its direct concure, and the Aquila constelation, with its turret which has the same mechanical

[@amigo3284]

How well does the carrack’s radar work? And did they add it so party members can also share the radar with the terrapin?

[@masonmax1000]

I was testing the tracker out yesterday and the F7c mk1 tracker i was picking up people from nearly 40m in live build.

[@Rantandreason]

This is a "nice start" actually putting it in But it is not what it should end up being Very exciting to see it in though :)

[@haydenbsiegel]

I hope they will give us the ability to share our radar with other squadron members in combat so that a Terrapin could share their target lock with a Carrack or Hornet of something.

[@koolerpure]

never thought id see the day CIG would start adding features to the ships they already sold as incomplete

[@blackcobra00]

Doesn't the Drake Cutter Scout have a dedicated radar too? Wonder if it just as effective?

[@Vexman2200]

Scout cutter needs to be added to this test, you should also try different size targets like medium, large, ect

[@Empara_Nox]

Did you fully turn up the radar on the power management?, maybe it could get better.

[@MusicByNumbersUK]

cool stuff :) I thought that scan mode had a focusing system on the mouse wheel or something like that that increases pierce and narrows the focus from 360 to a lower/more narrow degree amount? Maybe that's the old system though?

[@MusicByNumbersUK]

ah ignore this.. Just noticed you bring your pierce up which I guess narrows it :)

[@trench4nt428]

The functionality equals the Pallet-Salvaging-Scanning, right? But with a moving target and you can adjust it from the Pilot chair. So you can dynamically adjust the SGNL and PIERC to isolate the position. Actually that is a cool solution to work as a team.

[@memoriadelasplantas]

Cool. Please, try It with orher bigger ships.

[@TheRealFreakaros]

could you maybe also find him by actively scanning (LMB) instead of pinging the whole time?

[@obaniehia]

don't forget the MSR also has a scanning station.

[@yawnbox]

can you explain pierce? and the other thing? a long time ago CIG was considering a mini game for scanning that was effectively playing golf, which i loathe

[@demonicsquid7217]

Pierce is just a scan window size, same as the old system.

[@Desenrad]

I really want certain components to have a drastic change on stealth. Currently the components don't change the stats in a meaningful way.

[@cybercereal-gg]

Anvil Terrapin utility slots became funcional after EIGHT years? Oh damn! Wheres my credit card!

[@cygnus6623]

They still need to get rid of the chair and just have the pilot enter a remote turret...or something like that. I will likely be upgrading my standard Terrapin to the medical in a few weeks...

[@klebbe1]

Gotta ask, if they added it to the Terrapin, is the Cutter Scout able to use it's extra scanners too?

[@thepurpleperp4564]

isn't your scan cone super small at 99%? I always thought that reduced area of scan - which would mean where your scan cursor is aiming is crucial at 99% no?

[@Dystopir]

I just want to mention it because you didn't mention it in the video. In scan mode, you can see the signal strength on the left. In the first part it matched with distance. The lock disappeared at 0% signal. But was still there at 1%. In the second part, the ship could no longer be targeted at about 40%. Maybe a bug or you should have pinged/scanned differently.

[@ZipinS1]

will the Terrapin be able to share Scan results to nearby ships? so they can target lock ?

[@scribblescrabble3185]

I heard that this is still the plan, but certainly further away than other features.

[@mndeg]

soon tm

[@PreybirdMKII]

So question, if the terrapin has 2 people inside, when the radar operator pings is the pilot able to target out to the same range?

[@migtin688]

Wonder if the Cutlass Red co-pilot radar is no longer just a spot beam

[@erankel3949]

I am unsure the chair has better scanning result. Against the saber you were PIERC Up from the begining. But at least it's usable.

[@lameisthenewcool5277]

agreed its not really valid test when you dont have the same piercing focus on both. I think an awacs style dish like that should be able to target at exponentially greater ranges in all directions and then even further as you bring in the focus.

[@ahumeniy]

I wonder if the target information is at least relayed to the pilot. Need to do a test with two players on the Terrapin

[@flemminghansen7748]

Could the difference be that you weren't in scanning mode while testing from the pilots chair? Still nice to see that Terrapin has been uplifted to gold standard.

[@trustnoone3438]

does have the FREELANCER DUR a Radar like this?

[@realmwatters2977]

Does the cutter scout have same reader update?

[@picapaukrk]

I'm alone player so I know nothing about party game. I don't know if it is already in SC or maybe we should suggest that external target lock should be "shareable" for other team members. This way for example escort team could defend from stealth ships. Seams obvious, but as I mentioned I don't know if it's in the game.

[@VolksAlphaRogue]

For a whole person to dedicate to a scanning system, an extra 3km against a stealth ship is not enough imo. Due to the seat being used up by a player, the seat should allow for electronic warfare options, boost your radar function or jam theirs.

[@urielalbertosanchezm]

Cutlass Red Radar is working too?

[@Bronwyn031]

The chair should function like a radar turret in a line of sight beam out to 50-60km or even further. 15km is nothing for a dedicated scanning ship. I wanna see how far the Polaris' s3 radar can detect targets.

[@Dracounguis]

It's nice that the ship is finally getting something. Even if it is a poor excuse for what I hope will be the eventual full functions it will have. All I see is the copy/paste of your basic pilot pinging into a non-pilot chair.

[@axelk4921]

what´s about the Cyclone RN....?????

[@MusicByNumbersUK]

ooh.. The star runner radar/data grabber thingy can now be popped up too but last I checked it wasn't working like this yet.. Maybe it does now! :)

[@Solar546]

It has always been possible to do so.

[@sly567]

Nice science. How about trying, when the signal goes to unknown, narrow the scanning beam to 5 degrees and see if you get a lock.

[@MaxMineff]

If it's not said anyway, test it with an eclipse, or a ghost hornet, or a stealthy ships how close can the terrapin can detect them, can you have a stealthy terrapin and scan targets down.

[@drabheart9426]

You should check cross section by having them pancake for highest signal

[@batonemo6096]

Can you hide in a targets radar shadow?

[@Charlie_Echo]

I'm confused... You didnt test pinging from the pilot seat, right? You got the same results for passive (no ping) detection distance in both seats, so probably if you'd tested ping from the pilot seat you'd get the same results as well? I don't think there's any evidence here that the two seats are different - but maybe I'm missing something.

[@essentialasa]

How far away can you scan and get information?

[@criticalchai]

i started thinking about the stealth potential of the terrapin and wondered if I could turn off the shields and just let its natural tankiness do all the work. I have to go try that out

[@thepurpleperp4564]

Yeah I think that's generally the idea - shields off to lower signal, heat suppressed to lower signal - until discovered then everything goes on! Wouldn't go testing it just yet though as armor is not really in the game yet.

[@criticalchai]

@@thepurpleperp4564 doesnt it have extra coolers? i always assumed they were to lower the IR sig. but I'm waiting to see how it finally comes out. weren't they still working on coolers?

[@thepurpleperp4564]

@@criticalchai it has flaps that can close and trap in the heat so it's IR is less detectable from the outside I believe

[@Flufficatfish]

I wonder if you can scan rocks for mining with this...

[@walkerbarbin9116]

if you get the chance check the other ships like tracker, cutter scout, and aquila(i’ll be testing myself anyways just to check)

[@romanwiller2180]

Wonder how much of the ship components you can turn off when you are just scanning in order to reduce your signatures. Sinced the radar is a turret, all you NEED to have on is weapons and probably coolers. Power off everything else and you should reduce your signatures. Throw a stealth power plant and QT on there and your signs drop insanely according to Erkul.

[@aleksanderw5536]

No. The results are not promising. Terrapin basically have same range of sight as a standard fighter unless it is pinging. Explain to me how can terrapin detect an enemy without being detected him self - as it was supposed to work.

[@AKARazorback]

Typical CIG reasoning, logic and implementation

[@justalex4214]

Tbf the idea of detecting stuff without being detected yourself is nonsense, especially when it is done via a radar. The stronger the rader, the easier it is for things to detect it. There's an entire branch of guidance technology that detects radar sources and locks on to it, it's called ARM (anti radiation missile).

[@Cmdr_V]

​​@@justalex4214 woah watch out we got a rocket scientist over here.... Jk I learned something :p

[@aleksanderw5536]

@@justalex4214 There is something called passive radar that just picks up emissions from the sources without pinging them which exposed the source.

[@justalex4214]

@@aleksanderw5536 so? If the terrapin wants to detect stuff from further away it needs to function like an awacs, it doesn't make any sense otherwise. You don't need a terrapin to pick up emissions, a stealth ship that is just "listening" makes much more sense in such a case.

[@NateMcQuade]

Think that means the Radar on the Red might get the same treatment?

[@theamericanaromantic]

Please test the radar in the Polaris!

[@marine1732]

I thought the Terrapin’s scanner supposed to pick up ships over a jump away?

[@makimera]

3.23.4 PTU? i think someone needs some more sleep

[@YouCountSheep]

Well. First time my Freelancer DUR will have an advantage in at least something. But so far it looks underwhelming. Exploration ships should have something unique about them. Just having more range than other ships is pointless, especially when its such a small difference. You can bridge the gap flying in nav of that distance in a second or two which makes it awkward. And another problem I see for the range of this vs npcs is the simulation distance and spawn distance. If those ranges are too low there is no point of having an exploration ship. So there needs to be content for something that is within that limit but nearly undetectable for regular ships.

[@Expo017]

Btw, you will get the same results if you go scanning mode on the pilot chair and set piercing to 99%

[@bar10dr]

Whoa

[@ohyeah2816]

I’m more interested in the med Terrapin if it’s a thing.

[@JagHiroshi]

It needs 10x that capability. Good work though.

[@justalex4214]

Nah, stealth is so extremely overpowered rn, radar/scanning still needs a top to bottom rework to be able to counter that. The detection range alone would have to be at least tripled to be even remotely useful, because stealth ships won't just stay still and are very hard to detect by nature. With the right components and power tuning, a firebird has an insanely low detection range that is below most missiles' minimum lock-on range and I doubt the way radar and scanning works rn will do anything to counter it.

[@ROrneli]

this is not how scanning will work on scanning ships like this . When Radar is implemented it will be a lot more complex . Scanning ships like the terrapin or the hornet tracker will be able to silently scan much farther and when pinging they should see even farther away , this ship is the counter ship for stealth . they will also be able to scan planet surfaces for minerals and bases , animals , etc... We are in the stone age in scanning right now .

[@thirdworldrider6991]

3.23.4?