Apple 400k Floppy Drive Lube Repair [1984 Macintosh]

[@smichelsen]

That was one of the nicest-shot "how to fix this" videos I have even seen. Your camera angles, closeup shots, use of a tripod, and careful explanation about every little pitfall will make my project go smoothly. I have 4 1984-6 vintage Macs that need to come down off the shelf and get a little attention. Now I feel good to go. Bravo!

[@JDW-]

Thank you for your kind words. When finished, please let me know if your lube jobs were a success!

[@BrD61]

Your instructions helped me get my Macintosh 128K's floppy drive back in working order. Slightly different OA-D34V-22 drive in my case, but was still fun to figure out. The holder for the felt pressure was missing, so I attempted to 3D print one, but only to find the original one hiding inside the brightness dial pot at the bottom as I was closing things up... Anyways. thanks JDW for the great, easy to follow tutorial!

[@JDW-]

Thanks great to hear! Thanks for making time to let me know of your repair success, Brian!

[@lawsononyoutube]

this video helped me out immensely. did a little home repair with my friend from down the street. it was a great time and now i can use my floppy drive again :>

[@JDW-]

That's great to hear. Thanks for letting me know of your successful repair!

[@pocketscience911]

Thanks for this one @JDW! I received a 400K drive this week in an original box. I think this drive was swapped out as part of an upgrade. It's very clean, but all the original grease had completely seized the mechanism. There was a yellow transport disk in it. Thanks to your tips it's now running smoothly again after sitting around for in excess of 35 years. Good stuff!

[@JDW-]

That's wonderful to hear, Gavin. Thank you for kindly making time to share your restoration success story! Best wishes!

[@tyler2610]

Thank you so much for posting this! I never would have guessed it would be so easy to fix a computer even one that is almost 40 years old. My knowledge of these old computers is very limited to my use of them in school close to 30 years ago. I just bought one of these to re-sell and unfortunately the seller only powered it on and said it worked. Well they obviously didn’t attempt to put a disc in it because when I did it didn’t really want to accept one but then it did with some moderate force and read it with no issue but then wouldn’t eject (and I wasn’t even sure of the correct way to eject a disc so I checked the manual after I was having no luck). I ended up ejecting the disc with tweezers when it would spring up for a second so I could grab it. I then tried another disc thinking maybe the disc was to blame but the drive was not fully open so the disc did not go in straight and ended up knocking off the pressure pad (as I later found out). Then of course it would not read a disc or eject one correctly! I found your video, I did the lubrication step by step following it very carefully and got it to eject properly but it still would not read a disc. I took it apart again and found the pressure pad inside the case, snapped it back in and voila it works just like it should. I am so thankful, for a while there I thought I was royally screwed.

[@JDW-]

Thank you for sharing that wonderful repair success story, Tyler. I hope that old Mac of yours brings back a lot of memories from when you first used them in your youth. That was a big motivator for me to get involved in vintage Macs. At some point you will also need to change out the aluminum electrolytic capacitors in that machine, either by yourself or by paying someone to do it. I have videos on that, if you want to try it yourself, and I include Mouser carts so you know which capacitors to buy. It's doable, even by a novice if you follow my videos. That will help to ensure that old Mac will keep working well for many years to come. Best wishes!

[@tyler2610]

@@JDW- Thanks, I don’t plan to keep it. I was just going to re-sell it but had to get it working properly to have a chance of turning a profit on it. It is actually in really nice shape and a complete set-up with printer and I believe the Picasso set. I would love to get “The Oregon Trail” and play that on it! I have such fond memories of playing that in class. I found the exact version a few years ago that I played someone had downloaded from the floppy disc onto the internet. I actually figured out how to win, something I never was able to do in 5th grade😒

[@antonystark9240]

You don't need to pry the case open. If you loosen but don't remove the torx screws, you can push down on the screw with the torx driver while pulling up on the corresponding case part --- that force will safely crack open the case.

[@JDW-]

Thank you for sharing. You are referring to 1:26 in my video. That is one way to accomplish back case removal, I agree. It's still stuck pretty good when you seek to remove a back case for the first time, but after several removals it often becomes easier to remove simply by putting the machine over a soft bed, grab the back case, and then shake it firmly up and down a couple times to allow gravity to pull the guts straight down and onto the bed, leave you with the back case in your hands. Interestingly, I also find that getting the back case off an SE or SE/30 is easier than my Mac 128 and 512 machines.

[@sylversyrfer6894]

An EXCELLENT video - thank you so much!!

[@JDW-]

Thank you for your kind words! I'm happy the video could help!

[@jenskohler3855]

Thank you so much for this helpful video!

[@JDW-]

Thank you for your kind words, Jens!

[@JDW-]

The green label on the Grease I used has the misspelled word "SILICON," and I unfortunately pronounced it that way in the video. The green label should have written "SILICONE," which describes what it is; but the small Japanese text underneath is correct: "シリコーン". It is made by "AZ" and advertised for use on nearly anything, including metal, rubber, plastic, wood and even paper. All said, please use "SILICONE Grease."

[@malvicus372]

😊

[@TorutheRedFox]

0:17 or it won't eject despite the eject motor audibly spinning up and having trouble, and the floppy slightly moving but not enough to get out of the drive

[@JDW-]

Correct. There are a number of problems that can happen with these old drives.

[@Apple2gs]

My Macintosh 128 (from early 1984!) developed the opposite issue, where the drive won't eject the disk! Once I dig out my long handled torx I'll have to have a look and see if it's just gummed up or if the gear or motor are damaged. Nice to see you can get a modern battery replacement, that's another thing my 128 needs (and replacement rubber feet, mine literally melted into a sticky gooey mess!). Incidentally although my 128 is an original like yours, its previous owner upgraded it to a "512E" internally, so it has an 800K Sony 3.5 mech. Not to mention a 512K revision board, Mac Plus firmware and even a third party 512K RAM expansion board soldered in! Always wanted to downgrade it back to original specs, but at this point I'll likely just repair the floppy drive, its rubber feet and change the battery.

[@JDW-]

The 400K drives very rarely have broken gears. Most likely, you need to clean and re-lubricate it. The 800K and 1.44MB drives suffer from broken gears mainly because the gear that breaks is very tiny and it seems to be made of a different kind of plastic than the other gears too. As to downgrading your Mac to make it stock, I would advise against it. Shortly after doing that you will be wanting to put all those upgrades back in. The upgrades really do make it a much more usable and fun machine. Even so, hearing the purr of the stock 400K drive brings back a lot of memories for me because my first home computer was the 128K in 1984 when I was 13. Those drives are a tad slower than the 800K drives, but there's something about the sound of the 400K drive that holds a special place in my heart!

[@Apple2gs]

@@JDW- - Agreed! I no longer have my collection of Mac Plus's or SE (sadly gave them away in recent years!), so having the 128 in an upgraded state is important if I want to tinker with 80's era 68K Mac software. I totally get the nostalgic sound of the drive, my first computer was an Apple II Plus clone in 1984 when I was 12. There is just something magical hearing that unique whirring sound (especially the slimline Japanese Newtech Asuka drives I had; still have them but wish I could find the custom chip they used to repair them and hear that sound again!). Yeah, hopefully it just needs some lubrication. I do have a spare Sony 800K drive mech or two but they're getting rare so I'd prefer to fix what I have.

[@JDW-]

@@Apple2gs Had to lookup those NewTech Asuka drives. About the only thing I can find on them is here: twitter.com/foone/status/1171586137854365697?lang=en

[@Apple2gs]

@@JDW- - Coincidentally I found that Twitter posting a few months ago, even tried contacted the guy but never got a response back. What I need is the "NT8306" chip pictured! Back in the early 90's someone in Japan sent me a spare chip, but since then, no luck.

[@JDW-]

@@Apple2gs I see a photo of that IC at the same Twitter page. Has the NEWTECH name etched in it, which implies it was made exclusively for them. As a result, that will be a challenge to track down, especially since the company likely folded long ago, disposing of all their assets.

[@ArnoLouwagie]

I use white lithium grease all the time and never had any problems. After all it is what they originally used to lubricate drives. The grease doesn’t really touch any rubber parts or plastic parts in most floppy drives, so why bother using a different grease? Still a good video though! I learned how to recap an analog board on your channel and always order caps from Mouser, haha!

[@JDW-]

Congrats on your analog board recap! As to floppy drive grease, most people won’t really notice anything when using lithium or silicone grease. But in terms of it possibly getting on plastic parts, it’s safer for me to recommend the silicone type because that won’t cause plastics to degrade. And when you are talking about oil and grease, it’s hard to guarantee some of that will never ever touch the plastic case or plastic parts. But most people use what they have on hand, and I can’t argue against that. Thanks for watching, and best wishes!

[@dukethecat]

I’ve got a 02 and 22 revision of these. Both are stuck in the down position always. It seems like there is a bar near the back of the mechanism that doesn’t move without a lot of force applied to it. Have you repaired one of these?

[@JDW-]

I have only repaired models shown in my video. I offer additional tips about getting stuck parts unstuck in my video that centers on 800K drives: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qaqZe4p7mtd7h8U Specifically, jump to the section in that video where I talk about KURE 5-56 (WD-40). The video is indexed so you can easily do that. I believe that info will help you.

[@marcfield1234]

When you did something wrong or you blow a capasitor. Witch I did .Time to get my boards recapped.

[@JDW-]

I’m actually in the middle of filming a recapping video for the 400K drives right now. I will of course include a Mouser cart in the text description of that video. It still will take some days for me to finish it, but you might want to wait for that before you proceed.

[@mjmonjure]

Thank you for this! It came in very handy with my Mac plus which I have had stored in my basement for at least 20 years. Sorry for the late question, at 21:28 in the video, it occurred to me that the metal shielding comes into contact with the pins on the logic board. Why does that not cause a short on the logic board?

[@JDW-]

Congrats on your drive repair! What you are seeing at 21:28 is the outside of the metal shield that never touches the motherboard. The flip side of the shield is the part the touches the Motherboard, and which has a thin, transparent piece of plastic affixed to prevent shorts. Yours should too. If the integrity of that plastic insulator is compromised with pin holes or the like, you need to apply masking tape or similar over it to prevent shorts. If you think you cannot do that, just remove the shield altogether. Unless you have HAM radios or similar nearby, any noise resulting from shield removal will not be noticed.

[@mjmonjure]

@@JDW- Thanks so much for the quick reply! I measured one side for continuity on one end and the other and of course it was the side that is metal. Didn't occur to me to check the other side. Now I can test it. Thanks again!

[@chrischancey6759]

Well, my Mac floppy is the OA-D34V-02, which is a little different animal. It is frozen with bad grease. I've managed to get the ejector part unfrozen, but there is a part that is not in your floppy that is frozen. I can't get to it to clean

[@JDW-]

Can you post a link to a photo of the component that you are talking about? To avoid the KZbin filters, you need to leave off the HTTP part and spell out the dots and slashes. Thanks.

[@rapmaster]

That was a really nicely presented tutorial; thanks. I managed to get the drive ejecting properly again, but it won't accept any disks -- just reads briefly, shows the X, and spits them out. Any idea how to fix that?

[@JDW-]

Since my video is focused on the 400K drive, I will assume that is the one you have. I will also assume your word "accept" means "READ" -- meaning, the drive will allow you to insert the disk, and it will properly go in all the way and start spinning, but the problem is that you cannot boot from the disk, as evidenced by your use of the "X". Boot from another disk externally (floppy, hard disk, or FloppyEMU), then insert your 400K disk into the internal drive and let me know what happens. That test is important because it could be that your disk simply isn't a boot disk and is why you cannot boot from it. If you boot from a different disk (externally), when you insert a disk into the internal drive, if the computer cannot read it, it will ask if you want to initialize it. Assume you don't mind overwriting the content, go ahead and Initialize. Assuming it is a good disk, it should format. Try more than one to be sure sure. If all disk report "initialization failed," then it could be the head is dirty. Clean it carefully with a swap and 99% ISO alcohol (much better than 70% rubbing alcohol). Give it plenty of time to dry, then test again. If you still have the same problem, assuming you reassembled everything 100% correctly, then it could be a head misalignment, and those are no fun to fix. So please do the other tests first and let me know.

[@aarona.3780]

@@JDW- Thank you so much for your quick and thorough reply! Your assumptions are correct. I can successfully boot from the external drive (a noisy 3rd party Ehman Engineering 800k drive). Attempt to initialize two different 400k disks in internal drive failed, so I will try cleaning the head and report back. [Question: Is there X number of days one can wait after power off before it's not necessary to worry about discharging CRT?]

[@JDW-]

@@aarona.3780 When you clean the head, do not use a cleaning floppy unless specially made for the 400K drives - such cleaner disks are so rare I don't believe I've ever seen one, actually. You see, 400K drives have a felt pressure pad on one side, and the head on another. Normal cleaner disks are made for 2 heads. So if you put a normal cleaner disk in a 400K drive, the cleaner disk on one side will likely rip off the drive's felt pad due to friction (or maybe even shred it). This is also another reason you don't just stick a swab in between the felt pad and head. Dip a swab in 100% IPA (90% or higher is preferred) and clean only the head, never touching the felt pad. Use a magnifying glass before and after to confirm there is no grime left behind on the head. I had an 800K drive I had "cleaned" in the past (or so I thought), but it had READ issues. Then I took my magnifying glass and found I had not properly cleaned it because there was yellow stuff still stuck too it. It took 4 more cleanings with IPA and the swab to get it all off. The drive would Read/Write perfectly after that. If you have a very old 128K or 512K Mac, the flyback may be the original version which lacks a bleeder resistor, which means it will stay charged for such a long time that I cannot possibly give you a number of days to say when the charge will be gone. Professor Thomas Lee of Stanford University, in the Electrical Engineering department, has suggested that you can discharge CRTs without touching the CRT merely by turning brightness up all the way, then yanking the power cable. It's worth doing if you are afraid to discharge normally. The normal way isn't dangerous. But even if you feel it is, just wear rubber disk washing gloves. That way, even if you touch something, you won't ever be shocked. Then you will need a flat-head screwdriver and a cable with medium to large sized alligator clips at both ends. One clip attaches to the lug nut which mounts the CRT to the front plastic case in the upper left corner (when viewed from the back of the CRT), and the other clip attaches to your screw driver's metal shaft. Touch only the rubber part of the screwdriver and slip the tip under the circular suction cup attached to the CRT. You may or may not hear a brief zap. After that, it is discharged and you can safely remove the suction cup and even the entire analog board. Don't yank off the suction cup. You'll need to push on one of the two little metal pieces inside, which you cannot see and which hold the suction cup to the CRT. I hope this helps!

[@aarona.3780]

​@@JDW- Well, we've communicated directly but for benefit of other viewers, I'll just sum up here: took Mac apart again and saw that the felt pad on the plastic arm above the head was missing. (Not uncommon.) There are accounts of people repurposing a Q-tip to take its place. I had no luck with this. However, on a whim I tried cutting up a foam earplug in place of the felt, and jamming it up the little frame hole. That finally worked and now it's reading disks. I tried initializing one and it failed, though. So I have a semifunctional 512k Mac...

[@JDW-]

​@@aarona.3780 I'm sorry to hear it is only semi-functional. The main issue is that the felt pad needs to be flat, like the original. If it is not flat, then pressure from the pad would be uneven, and that might result in errors. But I also know that even drives with a perfect felt pad have issues if they are out of alignment. I cannot talk to you about that because if your felt pad is not perfect like the stock pad, there is zero meaning to attempt a realignment procedure because for all you know, the root problem may in fact be the pad. The only real solution would be to buy a thick sheet of felt and try to cut a nice round hole in it, then put the cylinder you cut out into the plastic pad holder on the drive. That's really the only way to ensure it is flat. Thickness can vary, but it needs to stick out of the plastic holder a bit, otherwise the plastic holder might press against the disk and scratch it. As with all vintage electronics, it is extremely helpful to have spare parts. For example, if you had another drive, even a broken one, you could remove the part you need for the somewhat good drive to make it perfect. And then if you have a perfect felt pad, and if you then still have trouble with reading or writing or formatting, then you could try a realignment procedure. But keep in mind that is very hard because you basically have to adjust a sensor on the drive in sub-1mm increments. That is very hard to do by hand!

[@RedTroPc]

11:35

[@JDW-]

I talk about the use of silicone grease at that timestamp. Alternatively, you could use SuperLube grease instead, which might be better than silicon grease because super lube has PTFE for extra smoothness. If you watch my 800K and 1.44 MB floppy drive videos, you’ll see me use those alternate greases and oils.