Apple's Fastest Mac vs. My $5496 PC

[@robocobrabot]

The “too quiet” complaint is interesting. I’ve heard that whirlpool had a similar issue when they improved the acoustics of their dishwashers. People were returning them because they didn’t think their dishes were getting as clean 😂

[@analbinoblackbear]

That's a genuinely great anecdote, but in this case I think the critique is that the Mac is capable of more but was handicapped for audio aesthetics. A great metaphor for the difference between Macs and PCs tbh.

[@santiagodossantos]

I get that, but you probably can wash dishes very efficiently and silently, whereas when it comes to chips, you just know you could be getting better performance for some more noise, because that cooling directly translates to some more speed headroom. At least it would be cool to have the option to tune that a bit higher if that is what you'd like

[@robocobrabot]

I totally agree! As an acoustical engineer myself, I just thought it was interesting.

[@ThorDyrden]

It somewhat again boiles down to the Apple "Philisophy" - let Cupertino take the decision for you - we know best, what you want... Vs. on PC you are in control - when you are willing to invest some time to learn so you know, what you are doing. My PC is tweaked to be absolutely silent during office-workload - I have to look at the light to see if it's on. But I allow it to ramp up cooling and sound to an definately hearable level, when I need full power to get the job done faster. Could also tweak it to remain more silent by sacrificing maybe 10-20% performance under load - or get 10% more when I would accept higher noise...

[@Darthvader81498]

@@robocobrabot So i know folks who have worked on that platform. Basically its not capped thermally in any sense, except the form factor itself which has space limitations. The bearings in the fan that are essentially very high quality and ensure no noise even when fans spin at higher RPM. you dont get that in the PC world.

[@zenpool]

When Optimum can just reach out to Apple but LMG can't 🤣

[@willruss]

Optimum is a reviewer , Linus is a glorified qvc salesman

[@user-cm3wd5hk1p]

@@willrussI agree with you and would argue that applies to 90% of techtubers. Paul’s Hardware, Bitwit, Jayztwocents,MKBHD-all marketing

[@spacecy]

exactly@@willruss

[@lozyl956]

Man if I own a multi-trillion dollars company I would want Ali to unbox my products

[@rapamune]

Pretty sure Optimum purchases everything himself.

[@sonataemsolmenor]

Putting a 7800x3d instead of a 7950x is really just to make the comparison "more interesting". For production, no one would spend 5500$ without going for the fastest processor available..

[@user-ck9cw8fs5n]

facts

[@foxxyboxxy9348]

Gamer Boi's gonna game 😂

[@vidarCRC]

This.

[@pjay4598]

same thing with only have 32gb of ram, it would probably only be like a couple hundred more dollars to upgrade to a full 64gb

[@lovely-shrubbery8578]

@@pjay459850 bucks more at the moment lol

[@AllgoodthingsTv]

This was a great video. Showing how both machines dropped frames in that effects heavy timeline in Resolve was revealing (and also how that same clip in FCPX ran smoothly). That M2 Ultra is a beast for sure.

[@metabang03]

It also shows that 5500 and 7000 doller have the same audio processing as a 600 doller pc. Must be stupid to spend that much and not have a premium sound card. Sound is better of an upgrade then video quality. And it's much cheaper.

[@Yoloslides]

@@yugecrazystickthe only difference with the Mac Pro is the customizable PCI slots

[@YouTube2021FM]

@@yugecrazystickwhat M2 extreme?

[@staraffinity]

Yep, interesting. Curious to see how much better the M3 Ultra will fare. But when that comes out we might have 8700X3D and 5090 to compare witth on the PC/Windows side. :)

[@skorpers]

@@metabang03 Uhhhh, what? What does sound have to do with it. Get a good audio interface and you're done.

[@yeros404]

Makes me so happy Optimum is casually reaching out to apple.. and they're like, "sure!"

[@henryhallam5270]

I don’t know why people hate on Apple like they make genuinely good products

[@Chadmodan]

@@henryhallam5270 Apple can make a good product and still deserve hate, and if you don't know what the common bones to pick are with Apple then you're in a bubble.

[@clarentknight]

@@henryhallam5270 It's just good ole Apple, creates a problem then sells the solution on a really greedy way, they're kinda like the Ferrari of the tech world

[@prntm926]

@@henryhallam5270 purposefully making their product a bit bad so people would upgrade to the next gen? try updating your ios/ipados before new product launch and watch it suffer. iphone 15 and 15 pro have usb-c but only the pro have usb 3.0, no fast charging. because the next iphone 16 pro will have fast charging instead, and the 16 will have usb 3.0, but not fast charging, lol. imagine recording pro res raw just to copy the files the same speed as the lightning cable. "the iphone gates" And the usb 3.0 is sold separately. Noice ;)

[@Sald8Trin]

@@prntm926 bussiness is bussiness, nobody forces you to buy these phones. I'd prefer slow steady biz oriented improvements over fast released, grounbreaking half broken products like for example first gen foldables. Im still using my iphone 13pro, while there arent many if any first gen samsung foldable users without broken screen out there.

[@standupg4m3r]

Production quality, content delivery, and honesty. Never a let down on this channel.

[@DeltaNovum]

I'm a fan of the channel, but lots of bias and misinformation in this video though :(. But maybe he truly believes he is being honest.

[@standupg4m3r]

@@DeltaNovum As someone with both PC’s and Mac’s in my household, can you please elaborate on the perceived bias?

[@KK-eg3em]

Nobody's stopping you from paying the Apple tax.

[@nickmhc]

His channel is definitely quality over quantity. He was also way ahead of the curve on his small form factor PC case compared to Gamers Nexus. GN initially claimed the case limited the ability to have a 4090

[@DocHudson420]

@@DeltaNovumI mean you can’t say all that and not show any proof. You obviously are just a troll with no good input

[@analogicparadox]

Reminder that Blender denoising is set on OpenImageDenoise (CPU) by default, but it can be switched to Optix, which runs on the GPU andis even faster. Same thing goes for rendering itself, switching from CUDAto Optix can almost double the performance of RTX cards.

[@MrSam1804]

it renders almost seemless with rtx.

[@itsprod.472]

Nice info

[@princess_hd]

Also he used a tiled rendering on the gpu, which is slower on a modern GPU

[@utubekullanicisi]

I imagine that's already on if the card is already 25x faster.

[@analogicparadox]

@@utubekullanicisi you have no clue of how high 40 series can soar in blender

[@lovac_hunt]

Putting an 8 core cpu against a 24 core cpu with an OS optimised for that very cpu is kinda flawed comparison

[@sssss4644]

Isn't that the purpose and the title of this video? So you want to test mac with windows?

[@dtrjones]

@@sssss4644 Mmmm, you missed the part where the PC costs $5496! 😁 You don't buy a gaming CPU for that price, so no it's not the point at all.

[@sssss4644]

@@dtrjones yeah, I’m with mac side as I also used it for work / productivity and windows for gaming

[@YousafHussain730]

​@@sssss4644my amd threadripper with 4080 will crush that mac in both gaming and productivity im a graphic designer and a video editor my self

[@YousafHussain730]

​@@sssss4644And it cost 9 k

[@Dionyzos]

A dedicated competetive GPU would be the next step for Apple to really impress with their Silicon. These integrated solutions are great but it's simply not cost effective to make a chip large enough to compete with two seperate ones. They probably cancelled the M2 Extreme for that reason.

[@BOZ_11]

"A dedicated competetive GPU would be the next step for Apple" - Intel are struggling with GPU's, so Apple has zero chance. they need to use amd/nvidia gpu's but they're too proud and their users tend to have more money than sense, which means Apple doesn't get punished for poor performance choices

[@bjornightingale]

I agree that Intel is struggeling, but wouldnt you say it's good that we have more companies entering the GPU market? Sounds like you'd rather have two companies run the monopoly on all GPU's. The more the better! @@BOZ_11

[@marcusellby]

@@BOZ_11 If Apple did this it will of course not be comparable to what Intel is doing, it will be something you can only get in the workstation solutions like Mac Pro

[@BOZ_11]

@@marcusellby whatever they do it'll be lacking in performance compared with the pc space. That's always been true, it's true today, and maybe forever, since intel, AMD, Nvidia push each other in a race that apple doesn't really partake in

[@IsleyNumber1]

I mean, integrated GPUs have a significant advantage in many areas. They share unified memory, can have higher bandwidth if the memory is collocated on the silicon. Dedicated GPUs only have the advantage of being able to be mixed & matched with the CPU for the work loaded needed and to be swapped in case of failure or upgrade needs, plus the ability for specialised cooling. Plus the ability to be MORE silicon than a single design - although chiplets can mitigate this. These dedicated advantages are actually outweighed by the advantages for integrated. A dedicated GPU isn't the way to catch up.

[@XxM1G3xX]

I really like how you compare the real life scenarios of all of these tools and not just regurgitate the specs and values of the graphs like most other tech channels do. You are the GOAT tech channel in my opinion.

[@BlingJ.]

denoising is the biggest loss and dent on the mac ever, pc shines with denoising and 3d work

[@sethglazier2877]

Dude is the complete package. Passionate about hardware, but actually depends on fast compute for his day job so he can “talk shop” for actual potential users of these products. Also he’s actually quite good at gaming, which is the other audience.

[@horseradish843]

He only shows real world scenarios for a content creator.

[@condorX2]

It's a good comparison. 9:57 a 8k Mac has input lag for CS go, lol. This mean the Mac commercial was a lie. They should change it to "Mac, a machine that cost you an arm and a leg for web browsing" You might wanna sell your 5k desktop and get a laptop instead if you h8 updating the softwares. My $200 laptop can play Starfield on ultra settings at 1080p with a few tweaks. My video is up.

[@shrektheogrelord6435]

​@sethglazier2877 a well-rounded content creator with appeal to differing audiences is someone that deserves more attention

[@odinsplaygrounds]

I have a T1 with a 4090 as well and wouldn't ever change that out for a Mac Studio due to the lackluster 3D rendering and gaming performances. However, I also do completely agree it's so worth mentioning just how small this computer is and how well it performs completely out of the box. I have spent so many hours in total planning, buying individual parts, building, optimizing the build and software on my Windows. Now it's awesome, but you just gotta have the interest as well to do all that.

[@BOZ_11]

pre-built brother

[@Linux_Fan_Boi_76]

The 3D rendering and gaming performance on Macs is going to get a huge over haul with the new 3 nm silicon. So it'll be interesting to compare things once the M3 line come out. I'm particularly interested to see what the AMD response will be, and if they'll fire back with some monster APU's in 2025

[@davide4725]

You can buy a fully-kitted out pre-built for probably half the price of the Mac.

[@BOZ_11]

@@Linux_Fan_Boi_76 intel/amd/nvidia have always been faster than apple. tomorrow won't be any different

[@DisastrousCake]

@@BOZ_11 Good luck finding a pre-built T1 with a 4090 lmao

[@santiagolopezdeharo9031]

KZbinrs when a 8k dolars Mac exports a video 5% quicker than a 3k dolars pc 😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲

[@DeterminationV5]

KZbinrs when they purposefully leave their PC with overpaid processors + only 32GB of ram and can't fork over extra 300$ to fix all of those big issues, just to make it seem like a fair comparison 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 In reality you can get his setup in the same form factor with a better CPU and more RAM for way cheaper than he states. At this point do you think Apple would just let a youtuber go in and borrow their products without something to gain from it?

[@TylerTheDevourer]

@@DeterminationV5idk but 7000$ for the Mac Studio is absolutely disgusting… I’d set the bar highest for 5000$ at most

[@MERNOXOPHLAM]

@@DeterminationV5yeah exactly, he said that a lot of it was spent on water cooling, but i’d be willing to bet a decent $500-$750 of that was also components like mobos and ram that would be cheaper with the same specs, it’s just he has the premium components.

[@-nomi.-]

​@@DeterminationV5the more he steps away from pc building the shallower his content gets. bro is entering his linus arc

[@DeterminationV5]

@@-nomi.- LTT is a company focused on entertaining general midia with tech related videos. They hardly misslead people and it's never on purpose (since all of the times this has happened it got adressed). This is not a "linus arc", this is a straight up AD.

[@ojassarup258]

To be fair, a 13700K, 13900K, Ryzen 7900, 7950X would have all been more suitable for workstation workloads, for the same or relatively little more money than the 7800X3D. Apple would probably still have the CPU efficiency lead though.

[@VargpinM]

Heat, a lot of heat. I personally got 13700k but cooling was kinda pain in the ass. I went from mini to full tower cos of that. If custom loop is out of budget and/or size/silence is in priority 7800x3d makes more sense in a gaming/working mini pc.

[@BleepBlop-rh9lm]

@@VargpinM Well, get 7950x. It consumes 120W max undervolted and will crush this apple crap. I have it, I know. It scores 2200 on cinebench r24.

[@uuuaaa96]

My i7 13700KF, with 5,5 GHz p cores and 4,4 GHz e cores scored 1797 in Cinebench 2024 while drawing 230W on average. This apple CPU is a work of art considering performance/power consumption and heat production

[@davide4725]

@@uuuaaa96Well yeah, compared to Intel, what are they on now, 10nm +++++?

[@BleepBlop-rh9lm]

@@uuuaaa96 In that case AMD's CPUs are work of art too. Well, they are :)

[@SkaterStimm]

The version of blender makes a huge difference on macOS. They just announced Metal optimization and unless you turn that on it won't be fast. Be sure you are using a metal version.

[@FireAngelOfLondon]

Using Metal rendering on that Mac Studio the Blender classroom test file takes around 58 seconds to render. On a 3070 the same file renders in 36 seconds; I have not tested a 4090 but I wold be shocked if it takes as long as 10 seconds.

[@SkaterStimm]

@@FireAngelOfLondon Nice, we have found Blender doesn't have the greatest metal optimizations but at least they are getting better. They are not very aggressive with their thread pool optimizations and utilization, my Mac's GPU is somewhat idle when rendering.

[@mrkesu]

coping

[@FireAngelOfLondon]

@@SkaterStimm Blender is not the problem, Apple's GPUs are the problem; they are much much slower than the AMD and NVIDIA GPUs and there are no signs that they will catch up.

[@SkaterStimm]

@@FireAngelOfLondon I don't think they are that far out in performance. I blame blender.

[@dwarfcow]

It would have been nice to see you swap out the CPU on the PC to one more production minded like the studio is focused on (like the 7950x) which isn't much more expensive these days than a 7800x3d

[@GameWiz2428]

or an i9 13900k

[@Robert-jl6mh]

For 5.500$ there needs to be a 7950X3D with minimum of 64GB RAM and Look than, specially if you use Linux instad of Windows.

[@erlm595]

Or a xeon/threadripper

[@77Brainfreeze]

Agreed, this is not really an apples to apples comparison when using a PC chip specifically designed for 3d gaming vs one designed for exactly the tests he is performing.

[@marcmurc]

Why compare the best CPU Apple can deliver with a AMD CPU which is clearly not a workstation cpu and a good inch away from the best CPU AMD can deliver. Compare fair or dont do this kind of videos!

[@Naczelnik4518]

This video is basically pointless. You compared gaming CPU with top performance CPU for work from Apple... dude... you should compare M2 to Ryzen Threadripper PRO 5975WX because they are both aimed for same customer/purpose ...and then we can talk...

[@rahul_wip]

man, 100% videos on yt comparing apple with windows are same. comparing gaming with apple.

[@vaclavkasal3875]

Show me such small pc case with TR. 😂 It's ok to compare AM4 however he should pick 16c alternative, not 8c snail.

[@vaclavkasal3875]

Or at least should avoid multicore test, it's embarrassing part of the test.

[@lordnicenstein5105]

All of his tests are laughable, I mostly use them to look at Hardware 😂😂 He seems to not really get processors, their line ups or use cases tbh😅

[@itfnir8011]

He literally said it’s his work studio system…

[@sethlin01]

I liked this video; though the CPU's in the video are not in the same class. A closer equivalent would be the Ryzen 9 7950x 16 core (32 thread) or intel i9 13900k 24 core (8 p cores + 16 E cores, 32 threads). The M2 Ultra has 24 cores (16 P cores + 8 E cores, I believe it is 24 threads). Just to give a more fair comparison. I looked up the numbers and the 7950x has a cinebench score of 2108, the 13900k has 2144, and that site had the M2 recorded at 1918. The M2 gets close performance at lower power and thermals is impressive. Imagine using something like this in a PC laptop?

[@dubble]

Pricing wise, it's more realistic to compare it with a HEDT part like the 32-core 7990x. A 7950x + mid tier gpu + ram could be had for just $2000, that's barely a fair comparison to a $7000 mac. Honestly, at $9000 you could already get a 96 core Threadripper Pro in. That would amount to roughly 6x performance at the same price for the type of work the mac is designed for.

[@rbrogan86]

I was thinking the same thing. Apple people always shade it. I could build a PC to smash that for $5k

[@Jeff-gu6nb]

Yeah that's literally what he said in the video at 4:40...

[@Nick_R_]

True and for those of us who know the producs well it's pretty obvious. But for people who don't, it's worth emphasising that the 7800x3D is a very efficient beast for gaming, but if your focus is video editing, both AMD and Intel offer products much better suited to that task. An Intel 14700k for example, at £420, would be a far better choice - the 14900k or Ryzen 7950x better still. You would also have a far better PC if you compromised on the form factor, didn't mind some noise and were tolerant of a high electricity bill. I can see why people might choose either the Studio or get a good builder to spec a workstation PC. My preference would be the latter, but if I used the rest of the Apple eco-system (and especially if I was used to FInal Cut Pro) I might go with Apple.

[@isakferm7674]

yep really useless to compare a gaming pc to a mac studio with productivity tasks. Get a better cpu then compare, the 5 k build is already like 2k wasted anyways.

[@roachmayne5794]

you thought i wouldn't notice lol 0:03

[@PrawdWunder]

😂😂😂😂

[@suppzz3465]

😂

[@Michael-kn8sp]

What

[@Hash-88]

He messed up the peel and cut the video​@@Michael-kn8sp

[@masterman109]

@@Michael-kn8sptheres a cut for the rip

[@doghouse6413]

Honesty. Something you can’t find in the mainstream. So glad this channel is doing well

[@MrUnboxerVideos]

It counts for a lot these days!

[@BlingJ.]

denoising is the biggest loss and dent on the mac ever, pc shines with denoising and 3d work

[@danie7kovacs]

The title is literally clickbait lol

[@CCKrossed]

that 200$ upgrade from a 7800x3d to a 7950x3d would’ve caused this pc to smoke the mac studio in both cpu and gpu tests

[@lachlanB323]

It is interesting that you use a 7800x3d. That is an amazing gaming CPU nut not the best for productivity.

[@-BarathKumarS]

Production quality and editing is insane bro.

[@Minded-.-]

It's a little sad that we're suprised that 7000$ apple product beats a custom 5500$ build in SOME areas

[@klim6361]

+250$ and we will have ryzen 7950x or 13900k Apple never chances...

[@bilge677]

@@klim6361or even a 7950X3D if you're willing to spend a little more

[@RektaWasHere]

I mean to be fair the 4TB Storage in the Mac Studio is super expensive but doesn't play a huge role in performance so.. you can cut 2 grand here

[@francescob.3019]

not really because you’re also buying that small form factor which is obviously not easy to engineer which stays cool and absolutely silent all the time. It’s almost always not ideal to only take into consideration price and performance

[@Tzhz]

Apple you are paying for branding and limited product usage

[@leokimvideo]

I love my overhyped Mac Studio. It sucks up more dust Vs my Dyson vacuum cleaner.

[@Stix_Zidinia]

lol.. you should see some of these PC's that have 10 intake fans..

[@marcyd700]

Why do you buy things you don't like. Bizarre

[@PickAPocky]

@@marcyd700 The life of apple users. I'll say for the most part, it's a status symbol versus utility.

[@Darth_Modred]

@@Stix_Zidinia if it has more intake fans with filter it create good positive pressure inside case and your case stay clean from dust, while you only need to clean filters sometime

[@jinraigami3349]

@@PickAPocky He might be an Apple hater who pretends to be an Apple User. I saw that a lot.

[@iiTzabyss]

Its a good day when i see optimum has posted

[@stevenfeldman22]

agreed

[@tpurves]

The main historical issue with Mac workstations is that they release hardware that's expensive, but performance competitive at launch. But then Apple doesn't upgrade the machine for 3-7 years, while somehow also trying to maintain the same eye-bleed pricing. However, remember that threadripper builds absolutely exist at this price point, and that new threadrippers + Ryzens are due out end of this year or early 2024.

[@flow221]

Certainly fair, but the fact they're no longer dependent on third party CPU/GPU suppliers seems to have sped up their hardware refresh cycle quite a bit.

[@benbunch4159]

The nice thing is they appear to now be on an annual upgrade cycle. I do think for price the Max is the sweet spot not the Ultra.

[@studiodsr]

The Apple silicon macs are getting updated every 1 or 2 years

[@daniluzzu]

Except Apple updates the machines on a yearly basis.

[@KoolAidManOG]

The issue is that Apple has been historically hamstrung by their partners, first Motorola, then IBM, and then Intel. Intel's multiple year delays for Haswell had to be the last straw for Apple. Now that they're developing all of their hardware in house they can have a regular and predictable cadence of hardware that is specifically tailored to their needs (power efficiency, media application performance)

[@Dell-ol6hb]

A 7800x3D is not a workstation cpu, I’d probably have gone for something with more cores like a 7950x or 13900k at least for the comparison. Plus there’s monsters like the Threadrippers which would be in the same price class as the Mac.

[@stevenpike7857]

$4 grand for a Mac Studio pro vs an equivalent PC with a 4090 RTX is ridiculously embarrassing for Apple.

[@basantatamang2249]

They're still far behind in terms of GPU

[@KeenanCrow]

Okay but find it in that small form factor and at that level of power draw

[@atta1798]

@@basantatamang2249 not just that... how do they justify the Ryzen 8 core ,tacked their "24core" Mac Studio......do you know what case is in his solution?

[@HenrySomeone]

@@KeenanCrow Small form factor is NOT a worthy argument when comparing (essentially) workstations though...

[@KeenanCrow]

@@HenrySomeone why? If I don’t have space for a full tower it’s gonna be a consideration.

[@fletcherbrown728]

Your lighting, composition, video clarity, audio and video editing are just superlative. I am going to subscribe just to see more of this fantastic production capability. I’ll start looking around your videos hoping to find something that discusses you recipe for production, Well done.

[@TvstossSOPRO]

🤓🤓

[@TvstossSOPRO]

🤓🤓

[@Outboardbiscuit]

Another great video dude. I have a small suggestion for you to consider - include a small "Less is better" or "Higher is better", or something to that effect when showing results. It could be confusing for certain viewers who are not well-versed in testing results. For example @9:20 when "less is better" is the case, but the viewer is shown a big glowing purple bar with a larger number, they may just take it at face value that because the glowing bar is larger it is the better result of the two. It's only a small/insignificant nit-pick, but I felt it was worth making a suggestion for. 🖤

[@joshmdmd]

for real. a lot of the graphs are misleading.

[@momca96]

Just a suggestion for next video with charts, you can have text under chart(Higher is better or Lower is better) because when switching from performance scores to time it could be confusing, also it's much easier than looking for a chart unit and then thinking should it be higher or lower...

[@ncard00]

But, is the new cinebench GPU benchmark 100% optmized for Apple Silicon, Metal 3, and with Native ARM support. Cause I know the Mac Studio’s GPU is not 4 times slower than the RTX 4090, at least not in the Geekbench GPU test. And multiple games have had issues detecting the ultra fusion connector that combines the 2 Max chips that make up the Ultra chip, and I’m sure that making an M3 Extreme chip, fusing 2 ultra chips, would best the 4090, and maybe even the upcoming 5090… And, Blender doesn’t have full Mac support yet, why the results were so bad. Please for the future read up on this stuff, to make it a fair comparison. And lastly, I don’t care if the fastest PC is faster, cause the Mac is so much more efficient, with performance per watt being unmatched, and that’s what it takes to save our planet, replacing all x86 chips with passively cooled ARM chips. And you can just download a 3rd party tool to max out the fans for additional performance, even though the Mac Studio M2 Ultra doesn’t throttle, at all.

[@SyncronedStuff]

@@ncard00Dawg he said that it'd be less confusing to have a "lower/higher is better" text, nothing more 💀

[@lavahurricane2]

@@ncard00 you're delusional if you think that using more efficient CPUs on desktops will "save the planet". Especially with renewable energy becoming more prevalent. You certainly have bought into Apple's "green" marketing on that one.

[@gearsgamer7115]

@@ncard00 "I’m sure that making an M3 Extreme chip, fusing 2 ultra chips, would best the 4090" Yeah, no. Fun fact: Apple uses a sort of sli to scale thier sillicon, which the 4090 is already 70% faster than a m3 gpu performance wise, the 5090 would be almost 90% faster, so I dont think the sli type gpu connector internally would be able to scale past a 5090.

[@1998marker]

Great video, not sure you’ll see this but I would like to suggest something to improve your videos! When placing comparison graphs between the two machines, you should put in parentheses if values of higher or lower are better. For example: Custom built computer vs Mac render speeds (lower number is better) [enter values here] Just a note, as some novices may not understand that it’s better to have a smaller or larger lead for it to be better (you’d be surprised how common it is😂) Anyways, love the video nonetheless!

[@mjylem]

one thing you forgot to mention is that it is impossible to repair Mac (or upgrade it) in a meaningful/significant way .

[@datasleek7950]

That’s because they rarely break

[@el_androi1203]

@@datasleek7950 lmao sure buddy

[@carontorliak2760]

​@@datasleek7950lmao everything will break in due time. But apple products break faster than most.

[@datasleek7950]

@@carontorliak2760 And you say this based on what? I work for Hulu. 75% of the Developer use Mac. The support team is just 10 people for 100s of employees. They spend more time fixing Windows than Mac. I'm sorry but you are wrong.

[@carontorliak2760]

@@datasleek7950 by break i don't mean literally stop working at all (though I wouldn't be surpised if that was also true), I mean you can't use a 10 year old apple pc the same way you can use a 10 year old windows pc of same similar spec/price. With a high end workstation pc you can upgrade almost endlessly whereas you can't even easily repair a mac, let alone upgrade it as the op said. That with apple's mission of planned obsolescence basically makes you get a new mac just because it doesn't work properly anymore due to outdated macOS. I am sorry but your anecdote proves nothing.

[@D3nsity_]

The part about the pc not being plug and play is only really a thing if you build your own. Typically any off the shelf OEM pc just plugs in, turns on and goes, every laptop for example. Mac is better off the shelf like that for sure but HP, Dell and I may show my age with this next one but gateway even came plug and play back in the day. It did come in many many boxes tho lol.

[@skoy21]

Exactly, you don't have to build a PC, you have the option to build it... Most people buy prebuilt systems or laptops, not all users are computer enthusiasts or tech savvy.

[@MiniDevilDF]

Not to mention that there are many third party companies, both small local shops and larger internet order companies, that will build you a custom PC for your use case and tweak the overclocking so you have all of the benefits of a custom build, but with the exact same plug and play factors. A good PC builder will even prep your windows install and install all the software you request for you.

[@Willeexd1337]

I just think it’s awesome how the Mac can do this with using very little power

[@DerekDavis213]

For a desktop computer, power usage means very little. Expandability, and a huge software base give Windows the advantage.

[@justinpatty1954]

When apple switched there desktop cpus to the m1 they got tsmc to give them the way newer shit so there at 3nm and everyone else is at 5 ot 7nm even 10 in some cases, but, it caused all the competition to start making there own manufacturing plants.

[@DerekDavis213]

@@justinpatty1954 The competition cannot 'make' their own manufacturing plants. Everything is made by TSMC, or Samsung, or Global. M1 and M2 are quite impressive, when you consider they are basically just fast chips that come from a *cell* *phone* . Too bad that native software, and especially games, are very very limited on Apple Silicon.

[@krokulawa3999]

​@@DerekDavis213 You would change your mind about electricity consumption if you lived in a country like Germany. If I had both devices idling 24/7, that makes a difference of $280 per year in my electric bill.

[@SilentEire]

@@DerekDavis213power usage still matters if you need vast computing power, so efficiency is still very important

[@mgmedley]

Would be great if you could publish a full build list for your PC. I have been looking for something similar and it's kinda tough to piece together a small PC with a 4090.

[@nyalan8385]

He has a 3 part build series on it

[@ishaansendave]

Given your track record, I hope you can make a fairer comparison in the future. Maybe a 7950x3-d, 7950x or 13900k. An 8 core chip with 3-d v-cache going against the m2 ultra is quite unfair.

[@christophervanzetta]

But that pulls even more watts from that wall equaling more wasted energy…. Apple is going to dominate the market, sorry.

[@rishavkumar7133]

@@christophervanzetta bruh 7800x3d is gaming only its just not meant for single or multicore performance

[@dirtyharry1881]

@@christophervanzetta with the price difference between this M2 and an equally performing 7950 built you can pay your electricity for 3 years.

[@rapidfire77]

​@@christophervanzettadominate pc market? Yeah, sure

[@jlee9360]

Can you do a comparison with an actual CPU designed more towards work stations rather than a gaming chip.

[@erlm595]

Especially with such a pricepoint to compare, he cou have used a xeon or threadripper instead...

[@jlee9360]

@@erlm595 not even just a 7950x or something like this which would easily fit within that budget.

[@harrys2331]

⁠@@jlee936013900k… they cost pretty much the same, around 500 dollars but the i9 is faster and has more cores.

[@mismagiuz]

Yup, this video is basically pointless

[@Icydriveforza]

@@jlee9360 yeah throughout the whole video i was thinking "what a shame he didnt have a top cpu, either a 13900ks or 7950x3d, would have made this video more interesting comparing top to top, and not top to near top... but yeah, had he gone for one of those or even a workstation cpu, then the pc woul've performed even a lot better

[@goldenigma5840]

Honestly I think it's the M2 chip that holds it back so much. Imagine an M3/M4 ultra with it's extra cores, extra encoding and decoding engines, and Hardware Accelerated raytracing. It's almost criminal that the studio hasn't had a refresh in so long.

[@thedarkshadow5347]

No... its how integrated graphics work. Just wait for the ARM processors and you will see apple drop these prices to more than 50% off 💀

[@amarshall621]

Very well articulated. I use both tools and think you nailed the comparison.

[@peachsafety]

What’s crazy is that the RTX 4090 gets almost triple the performance per watt with under clocking.

[@doomfistXD]

from where did you get that info lmao?? yk that a rtx 4090 pulls almost 1000 watts and m2 ultra 35 right? literally makes no sense even if you d underclock the rtx 4090 to a max of 500 watts

[@peterdolkens669]

@@doomfistXD from the video lmfao roflcopter lololol111!!! yk that at 13:15 he shows the performance per watt of Optimums 4090, which is underclocked, vs the M2, which is hitting 110 watts... So your entire comment is drivel.

[@doomfistXD]

@@peterdolkens669 its still isnt 3x the performance

[@peter.dolkens]

108 Vs 337 for cinebench GPU test. Sorry about your maths test bro 😔

[@doomfistXD]

@@peter.dolkens with 3x+ the power usage from the rtx 4090...

[@jlee9360]

imagine your pc costs $5500 with a 7800x3d.

[@RobloxianX]

I mean ITX parts are expensive. Everything was custom built, I think some parts were even 3D printed. But I think the main reason was to give the Mac Studio a chance. The Studio has no way of beating any good Mini ITX PC

[@jlee9360]

@@RobloxianX I don't think it should be a handicapped build just to give a the studio a chance to compete.

[@Suuperwuuper]

I mean to be fair it is the fastest and most efficient gaming cpu in the world

[@jayvee8502]

​@@SuuperwuuperGaming focused CPU not for productivity.

[@devalapar7878]

@@Suuperwuuper The 7800x3d sucks in productivity. It is a really good gaming cpu because it has a huge cache. But it has only 8 cores. And the cores have a limited frequency to not overheat the vram. For that money, you can have a motherboard with two sockets, each socket a 24 core cpu (total 48) and rtx4090. That would be I believe cheaper and still faster 10 times faster.

[@danielhoglan3468]

Nice video. Just want to point out a few things that come to mind. Firstly, I really like the aesthetics of Apple hardware. However, that is mostly what you are paying the premium for, that and their proprietary software. 1. Graphics: It seems from this video a 4060 or even a 3060 would out perform this in many graphics oriented tasks. I believe that alone would drop your custom build by well over $1000. Prices change so much, but if you spent $2500 on that card, the x060's are $250-500. So maybe even $2k. 2. Software I: Much of what you point to that you enjoy is software, which doesn't say it's without merit, but like you, I don't want to learn and be married to their software. 3. Sound. Well designed PCs can be silent even with all but maxed out loads (GPU is a separate concern for noise here). 4. Upgradablility. Mac:"What is that". With a PC, you can make a well spec'd PC live for 7-8 years now with GPU and memory upgrades. 5. Software II: With Apple taking up ARM architecture processors, it's a risk to the consumer that mainstream x86 software may never become available to run natively. So, while the game you played made an effort with a translation layer, you see what that actually means. Very poor performance. Fewer companies than previously supported MACOS will support it going forward without an industry wide shift to ARM. Side note: Since Apple makes software too, they don't mind as much as long as they keep enough of their loyal base consumers. In short, it seems that you could build a similar performance PC for $2-3k. That's an awfully hefty premium, even for Apple, to be able to get in on software with minor conveniences. Especially given how much software it locks you out of, and with ARM, that list is even larger.

[@quantus5875]

Yes -- I always find these videos interesting where they try to compare similar form factors. Myself I would rather use a full-size case -- and put it under the desk and get more power for a lot less $$$. Yes, I get portability for laptops -- but portability for desktops? Would rather save tons of $$$. Plus full-size cases are a joy to work with -- when it comes to time to upgrade some of the components.

[@-XD]

Idk how you managed to improve on your already great cinematography but that intro was on par with Apple's marketing

[@tak2ulata]

This is a dumb comparison. Why would you be using a 7800x3D?

[@phantommlord]

As someone who uses both of these every day you nailed the use cases for both.

[@langer1972]

But can you open it to change parts??

[@PotatoMonkiYT]

This videos feel so premium. I feel like I paid to watch this

[@aaron57422]

A good video as always, and an interesting comparison, but seemed to shift frequently between "mac vs PC" and "this mac vs this PC".

[@shagohodds]

7800x3d is just not a workload cpu, its a gaming cpu.

[@christopherfortineux6937]

its a cpu with extra cache. That's it.

[@mockemperor953]

@@christopherfortineux6937 it has worse clock speeds than the 7700x so its slower in workstation stuff its only really beneficial in gaming and some games are worse than the non x3d versions mostly very very cpu intensive games (mine craft and csgo are 2 big ones )

[@Fanaticjames]

Apple probably letting him keep it for not comparing it to a 13900 😂

[@selimhandagtas2914]

Apple hardware is admirable in terms of energy efficiency but their performance is lackluster especially taking into consideration that you can build or buy a prebuild pc for nearly half the price with better performance.

[@robtriton]

Yeah, but Windows blows and will always blow. The end.

[@devalapar7878]

@@robtriton Wait what? Windows has plenty of software. On a mac you need to buy either the big name programs or use an emulator.

[@FinnbogiRagnarRagnarsson]

7950X3d and RTX 4060TI as a balanced cost machine would be interesting in comparison. GPU memory could be a drawback for some cases though.

[@halkon4412]

@@RiyadhcraftWhy? Most of the tests in the video were CPU-bound.

[@Dionyzos]

Apple just announced AAA games and RT on iPhone 15 Pro which is not something I was expecting. This looks like it will be the decade of portable actual, not the usual mobile, gaming.

[@Adam-vx6to]

And with porting toolkit Im acutally hopeful in 3-4 years there will be legit gaming on Mac. That's the single reason I don't switch back.

[@Dionyzos]

@@Adam-vx6to I can imagine that but it will only be cost effective if you already own a very fast Mac for work.

[@Adam-vx6to]

@@Dionyzos if developers actually release games natively on Mac then they should be playable on most of the entry level chips

[@ThunderingRoar]

mobile gaming lmao

[@Adam-vx6to]

@@ThunderingRoar did you see the presentation today?

[@dragonslayergeorge898]

Even though the stuff you use is way out of most people's pricing, I really love how you're able to bring everything back and keep things to real-world, multi-use cases, even for people on smaller budgets.

[@casualmime2792]

I mean his cpu is like 400usd

[@livedreamsg]

​@@casualmime2792 Believe it or not, this is outside of the range of most PC buyers. That's still high-end, even if it's not a flagship like the 13900K. Things like the 13900K and 7950X are halo products. I only bought mine because I want uncompromised performance.

[@larsc888]

If you're recording vocals with a condenser microphone, the silence is godsend. They used to make sound reducing computer cabinets to store noisy PC in studios!

[@4filmmx]

Yep! jusy ordered an M2 Max for our studio replacing an older Mac Pro that lives in a closet out int he hall for that very reason. I'm hoping I can bring it into the control room with no more walking out to do something with the box.

[@gearsgamer7115]

@@4filmmx Welp, you got scammed. There is a thing called the ampere alta max, basically a threadwripper but arm and 4.5K dollars, silent as ever, and, ofc, its 4x more powerfull than a m2 max

[@taylor1038]

Congrats on making Apple connections! No small feat for content creators.

[@peanutnutter1]

That PC and workflow could really do with a 7950x.

[@__aceofspades]

The 7950x and 7950x3D isn't great for gaming. The best chip for everything, gaming, compute, rendering is the i9-13900k.

[@dakbassett]

@@__aceofspadesMost delusional comment in this video.

[@flow221]

Would it? Does GPU rendering in DaVinci use the CPU much?

[@peanutnutter1]

@@flow221 the CPU is clocked higher

[@utubekullanicisi]

@@__aceofspades You're saying "not that great" as if the difference isn't 15% at most, and conveniently ignoring the power draw of the 13900K.

[@tylerberg8686]

Really well-done! I appreciate comparing the power draw to the performance, because that seems to be something that other reviewers overlook. I also appreciate your acknowledgement that these machines are built to do different things. Neither PC nor Mac should be considered the "end-all-be-all" for every application.

[@thefryinallofus]

While I think he’s incorrect about his conclusion about pc hardware being slower (just his processor), you are correct, Apple’s hardware is ahead on power consumption. But that is a low priority for commercial tools.

[@tylerberg8686]

@@thefryinallofus Fair enough. At the same time, a lot of these machines aren't necessarily meant for truly corporate/commercial use. They're still for much smaller business that do care about energy use and power consumption, I would imagine. It may not seem like much, but over time, there could be a drastic difference in energy usage and cost.

[@Belaziraf]

@@tylerberg8686 So to compensate GPU weakness, you buy a second overpriced device ? Not sure small companies can afford 20 k devices to save on 20-50$ energy a year.

[@TraktorTarzan]

its pretty much the only thing reviewers of apple products talk about. which is fine on a tablet or phone(even there it doesnt matter much, cause they pair it with a smaller battery). The only place i can see it matter is on their laptop, but they also pair it with a smaller battery instead of crushing the competition(the macbook air M2 battery is the same size as my android phone).

[@unemployicus]

"Neither PC nor Mac should be considered the "end-all-be-all" for every application." They are tools, both with strengths and weaknesses, but as a former PC user I can tell you PC people are far less willing to try Macs than the other way around.

[@zZTrungZz]

Comparing using a gaming 7800x3d instead of a lower-end Threadripper lmao. It will absolutely blow Apple shits away.

[@JoeBrigAI]

For gaming sure, but the Mac with its 128GB RAM available to the GPU can easily run a 70B+ LLM. A 80GB GPU for a PC costs over 20k used.

[@sergioyichiong7269]

​@@JoeBrigAII dont believ that. All pros on LLM mostly use nvidia gpu.

[@roarth]

something that I wonder about, which may make for an interesting video, is the differences between something like a Macbook and an equivalently priced PC for editing and all that.

[@-average]

I honestly love building and configuring my PCs, it's just so much nice to know you've built that and it's done properly, or your way at least

[@jameshetherington1]

And that you can maintain it - the apple brand philosophy of locking you out and " if it breaks just buy another one" has zero appeal to me

[@TheLongWind]

​@@jameshetherington1 Exactly why I will never buy an Apple product. The whole company makes me nauseous.

[@jameshetherington1]

@@777trader8 constructing something out of pre-existing parts is still building regardless of complexity, whether it's Lego, a house or a computer

[@tsdobbi]

@@777trader8 "You didn't build anything. You simply put together products like doing a puzzle." By that logic no one builds a house either. Because they didn't mill the lumber, burn the bricks or create the design.

[@salkdhfpoahergpoahre1534]

@@jameshetherington1 The appeal of the Apple ecosystem is that it's just take it out of the box and go, and their build quality is generally pretty incredible. For studios and offices, that's awesome because it cuts down on the time between ordering the system and getting up and running on it, and for most people it's great because they just want easy and quick access to basic functionality. As someone that also worked in one of their retail stores in college, the "if it breaks just buy another one" applies more to the people buying the products - I saw plenty of affluent folks plunk down thousands of dollars to buy a new computer/phone/iPad rather than wait a few days for their other one to be repaired! I use an M1 MBP for work, along with a personal iPad Air and a 13 pro iPhone, and I love that my apple products require very little maintenance. Everything does just work, and if I do have any issues with them, there's a store a short subway ride away that I can take it to. They also are very repairable as well, outside of the iPad, they just lock down the access to parts, which I get can be annoying. However, for casual, day to day stuff, that ease and approachability is very appealing to me. I've used Apple products since I was a kid, some of them for over 10 years, and have never had a catastrophic problem with any of them that I didn't cause by being an idiot with a coffee or glass of water. I also have a solid gaming PC that I built and that I still enjoy tinkering with as a hobby. If anything goes wrong, it's up to me to troubleshoot and repair, which is fun sometimes, and it's fine when it's not something my livelihood isn't relying on. There's also something satisfying about updating parts and keeping up with the current market, and being able to game at the upper end of performance is awesome.

[@AngusPearson]

On the fans not spinning up - there are extensions/apps for manual fan control that let you spin them up, and surprise surprise the performance improves when rendering/compiling/whatever

[@ashupashu5559]

Instructions unclear: mac flew into the ceiling and crashed somewhere 20 miles away: Steve Jobs ghost haunts me telling me fans are bad

[@ogre1890]

For the blender test, I’m not saying the Mac would have come anywhere near that 4090 but there are many optimisations now for blender on Mac that may have closed down the gap. Just wondering if you maybe didn’t enable them

[@williamcopeland2617]

No matter how many optimizations are done on any MAC, it'll never come close to touching that 4090GPU at all. Remember, a dedicated GPU is hard to beat.

[@ogre1890]

@@williamcopeland2617 I agree with you. As I said in my original comment “not saying the mac would have come anywhere near that 4090…” but optimisations do make a big difference when comparing it to itself before and after

[@toml1087]

I still have a problem with the performance of these mac chips when you get into scenario that is not supported by their coprocessors. Like for instance, try h265 software encoding or AV1. The performance there is really disappointing and not very much usable.

[@retrofizz727]

Maybe that will come with M3 ? Just saying because they just added AV1 decoding to the A17 chip on iphone 15 pro.

[@SpaceChicken]

Have you done h265 on video toolbox? I thought that was one of Apple’s hardware encoders.

[@efraimkent]

@@retrofizz727this, plus hardware accelerated RT (which is already decent on M1/2 chips if implemented correctly)

[@stillmoms]

I recently did H.265 software encoding tests with my older M1 Max and Handbrake, it was only a minute slower with the exact same settings vs my Ryzen 5 5600X (with only 35% of the power draw, no less), so I’m not sure one can say it’s unreasonable performance with software encoding. It’s certainly far more efficient.

[@Filtersloth]

H.265/HEVC is supported, there’s encode/decode hardware on the chip. Been very fast in my experience. They added an AV1 processor to the A17, so i suppose that will also get added to new M chips.

[@fredtheegg7479]

Great video man, I love that your focus is on the quality of a product and a true comparison rather than being a pc/apple fanboy. Apple's new chips are undeniably incredible and my hope is that the rest of the market have what it takes to compete with them. Imagine a future with CPUs and GPUs that are this efficient and work with the operating system of your choice.

[@goddyab]

That will be a Dream Come True, no need for me to buy a PC and Apple, one Computer Does it all....wow! Am really fantasizing here ..lol

[@goochipoochie]

Will never happen

[@FaySmash]

But apple isn't x86 so it eats shit in real world use (as you can see in gaming)

[@milkyy4168]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@FaySmashI think I’d say real world use includes productivity video editing and coding. And it doesn’t eat shit when doing them.

[@Dell-ol6hb]

@@milkyy4168 yea but it can only use ARM/RISC programs, it can’t use any software built around x86, which accounts for most of the pc software in existence at the moment

[@JibaroTech]

I did change from a PC to the M1 ultra, editing in Resolve and I'm having s much much stable and better experience overall working as an editor and videographer using Sony A1 and Fx3. I'm very happy with it. My Desktop decided to die randomly and I pull the plug and I'm very happy with it. I had a Ryder 9 5950x and a 4080.

[@bassyey]

Recording, and I changed to a Mac mini too. No more dealing with shitty audio drivers lol.

[@vineetr5140]

If you can compromise on the aesthetics, for 5.5k you can build a threadripper and 4090 system.

[@voidisciple2759]

They way they can maintain performance with high power efficiency and a ridiculously small form factor is crazy and props to them for continuing to compete in the industry having options is good but without game performance its just not the computer for me. I don't even play games that much but I do like to know that my computer can kill it when I do.

[@codymartin3370]

The other side of that is that there are way more games out there for windows than there are for Mac. I’ve tried gaming on a Mac before and the issues I ran into were that some of the games I was trying to play just didn’t have a Mac version at all through steam. So I would say if you want an all around system that can do everything. Windows wins. 🤷‍♂️

[@Mistygio]

Yeah I play COD on my Mac Studio and it’s a beast in performance. But it’s true that developers just don’t pay attention to Mac. So Mac isn’t a gaming platform because of the lack of support. But it is a beast. I think buying parallels every year is the only workaround so that you can run windows on your Mac

[@aralesaniternuvogiv]

this isn't true at all because you could have bought a Windows product key for cheap and side-load Windows from external M.2 drive just for gaming on Mac.@@codymartin3370

[@jamdva8176]

They simply make parts not swappable by placing them nearby, making them prone to fatal crashes and a full replacement of the board instead of a component, use the priciest settings of the chipmaker to make computing units in CPU and GPU smaller and more efficient, since they already have a huge markup on their products. There are NUCs with pc hardware, they are also quite powerful.

[@jackl7778]

you can get better performance, customizability, repairability, upgradability, future proofing, etc with a micro atx windows build instead of mac trash

[@prxzmsAU]

Great cinematic feel, love the vids

[@reverendbarker650]

No one ever seems to review any silicon optimized games on these Macs, you cant expect Rosetta to work properly , would love to see if it coped with a rail simulator , which is generally a very heavy workload.

[@CubanRider]

One of the reasons I bought the Mac Studio is for how quiet it is. You can do a voice-over while editing video with the Mac in front of you and you never hear a thing. Ours is the M2 Max processor with 32 GB of RAM for roughly $2k, it's a great deal for the performance you get.

[@zedrake]

I love this! I use both Mac and Windows and i utterly loath the argument about pricing you see between the weird PC vs Mac elitists. It's tone deaf and usually misses a lot of contextual info. Thanks for giving both products a fair shake

[@goochipoochie]

There is no contextual info here, this is a noob benchmark He didn't even offload the rendering onto the 4090, which on its own would give 4x the performance of m2 ultra On top of that his case is stupid and thermal throttles the entire build lowering the benchmark score even further

[@bootchoo96]

@@goochipoochie The offloading might be true but the 2nd part of your comment is simply untrue, have you even watched his built ? Customs voltage curves with customs water cooling, there is no thermal throttling here.

[@milkyy4168]

⁠​⁠@@goochipoochieHis case has 3 rads and runs cooler than stock. You seem to be missing contextual info too.

[@nexuslux1279]

This is a high quality youtube channel.

[@e2rqey]

A lot of the benchmark wins as you said are due to the use of a 7800X3D instead of a CPU with more threads like a 7900 or 7950X. I think you should have still show the results that those would have had. As for editing workflows I'd imagine there would be a lot more of those than CPUs optimized for gaming performance. Still, what Apple is able to do in-terms of performance per watt is quite incredible. I wish they would actually make a gaming handheld as it would be awesome and a great way for them to get more developers to make games support the Metal API.

[@reuven2010]

performance per watt is irrelevant at the prices they are charging, impressive? Yeah not really.. there is a reason why intel will not use such small nodes it is simply too expensive.

[@e2rqey]

@@reuven2010 no offense but you have no clue what you are talking about. Its irrelevant because you cannot optimize for both maximum outright performance and maximum power efficiency. Thats literally the whole point of optimization. Intel doesn't use smaller nodes because they are the only big semiconductor company that has their own semiconductor manufacturing capacity and doesn't rely primarily on TSMC to actually manufacture their chips. They have fallen behind TSMC in the last decade or so when it comes to leading edge semiconductor manufacturing. Their process node cadence stalled out and this held back the other parts of their business as their compeititors were able to build their chips on TSMCs more advanced and performant process nodes. If Intel had comparable process node manufacturing capabilities to TSMC they would likely be able to be Apple not only in efficiency but also cost due to the fact they are using their own manufacturing capacity to produce their chips and not subject to the same costs associated with relying on another company to actually manufacture their chips. The issue is the R&D for developing leading edge process nodes has gotten so insanely expensive and difficult that only TSMC has been able to get it to market reliably and semiconductor manufacturing is their entire business. Unlike intel where it was only a part of their business. That's why intel is now trying to evolve their manufacturing business by selliing their chip manufacturing capacity and services to other companies. Because even Intel's sales alone are no longer capable of funding future node development otherwise. Much less keeping pace with a company like TSMC which is focused completely on that side of the business. In regards to your completely flawed understanding of performance vs efficiency. Companies have tried to optimize for both, but the best you can do with that is use a heterogeneous architecture like many big.LITTLE designs where you make produce two different core designs. One which optimizes for outright performance and the other which optimizes for maximum power efficiency. The thing is that such designs still sacrifice overall silicon area for those cores which are optimized for maximum power efficiency. Which of course could have been used for more of the cores optimized for maximum outright performance. I could explain more but I feel like explaining voltage response curves to you would likely be pointless as I would be shocked if you even actually read this far.

[@milkyy4168]

I mean, apple seems to be in kahoots with playstation somewhat. Maybe they could work together on the next handheld? (Besides the portal which sucks)

[@crestofhonor2349]

@@milkyy4168 Where did that information come from? Besides why would Sony want to do that?

[@utubekullanicisi]

A lot of the benchmarks were dependent on the media engine or GPU, independent of the CPU.

[@katet6450]

bro played chpt2💀

[@enesgee]

The skill and time it takes for Optimum to build the PC has to be factored in to the cost -

[@explosev6513]

Really great video, would love to see more of these comparisons in the future!

[@JPCs559]

2:44 when he says its heavy you know it's too heavy 💀

[@Skrapeg0at]

On an M1 MacBook Air, here. I've been thinking about an upgrade for the last couple of weeks and have been really considering building my own PC instead of continuing down the Mac pipeline. I was actually thinking about using the 7800X3D as my processor in the build, since the benchmarks I looked at made it look like I'd be getting about a 2.1x performance boost than where I am currently. However, after watching your video, I think I'm convinced to get a Mac Studio instead. At this point, I'll probably wait for the M3 Ultra model to come out before I upgrade, though. Thanks for the video.

[@Mike0193Azul]

Love his compact pc but it is more for gaming. I wish I could see a comparison with an equal amount of RAM and a Ryzen 7950x or Intel 13900k/s (which actually performs better for creative work). Tech Notice is so far the only channel that has done equal comparisons. Apple’s customer service is bar none and the efficiency of completely proprietary hardware/software runs amazing with less hiccups. But I don’t mind learning tech stuff and troubleshooting to get a pc running if it performs better in video editing for less money and loads of customization options. Thus, would enjoy seeing par on par comparisons

[@rodshoaf]

Apple Customer Service is a joke.. they delete post to forums if you make a public complaint. They refuse to upgrade older hardware.. instead they force you to buy new. Just watch any Louis Rossmann video for proof on that. Hell half the time they refuse to fix newer hardware or they charge you to replace an entire motherboard just for a faulty video cable. I haven't had a bad support experience from a PC builder since I owned a Gateway back in 98. You want Great Customer Service buy a PC from MicroCenter. They fix their own stuff and others.. including Macs.

[@Dieggovelazquez]

Simple . If you’re boujee and don’t game at all . Get a Mac . Can run anything lasts for like 5-10 years easily and super simple experience. If you’re a Fan of PCs and Gaming and love interchanging parts and learning the PC world and making the “new PlayStation 8” today. Get a PC with a great GPU , AMD or Nvidia ! And what to pick that’s the fun part . If you’re boring get a Mac . I have both and use a Mac M3 Pro for work and a 4080 Super GPU RIG

[@Jpachuau]

Nope mine broke withing a year. Month of work lost because I was too lazy to save it. Thats the beauty of SOC. If one part fails..... all fails.

[@wolfmaes5839]

there are mac studios with the same cpu and a pcie x16 bus but with this integraded graphics it isnt a fair battle

[@Chuck_vs._The_Comment_Section]

Videos like this one tend to overlook one tiny little detail. You can't upgrade a Mac. Macs, especially those with ARM processors, have hardware that is completely nailed down. So, for example, if you want to replace/expand the RAM or memory, you usually have no choice but to buy a new device.

[@biohead66]

in a year or 2 these Mac owners will be crying. 5090 will wreck everything at 1/3 the cost of a mac studio

[@mast2480]

Honestly, that is a comparison between a $3500 PC and $7000 mac. That is not even a fair comparison. If there is anyone willing to pay $3500 for that 'apple experience,' that person must be super-rich and do not know where to spend all his money. I want to see a $7000 PC workstation vs. a mac studio on tasks like 3d physical simulation (if there is a proper software for such tasks for mac) rather than video editing, which relies heavily on 2D acceleration anyway. I mean, $7000 PCs are built for such tasks anyway, so what is the point of bringing a PC with $3500 specs and comparing it with $7000 mac on video editing? From a professional standpoint, unless a $7000 mac performs at least 2x better than a $3500 PC, it is already a failure. It is a $7000 decor object with performance comparable to $3500 work PC. For absolute majority, absolutely overpriced. As a 3D CG artist, I would never use a mac at that price point. With $7000, I can get a much more powerful, pre-built workstation with water cooling and still have some more for my customized keyboard and mouse. For monitors, I would trust EIZO more than anything apple. Whatever mac's M series does, Nvidia will simply blow away, and these days, GPUs do more work than CPUs for CG. What is the point of using Maxon's software for benchmarking? When was the last time Maxon's Cinema4D was used in high-end VFX or simulation? Do Arnold rendering in Maya instead. For games, a mac would be a waste of money. Run Cyberpunk 2077 Phantom Liberty on that $3500 PC, and you will know what I mean. Mac is a very limited and inflexible platform in all aspects 3D, and that makes it an inadequate tool for serious VFX, simulation, and engineering. Serious professional 3D artists care more for performance rather than PC case size or power consumption. On a slower computer, it takes longer to produce 3D works and thus consumes more time and energy anyway. Moreover, the studios and companies that hire these artists do not care about some 'experience.' That 'apple experience' still seems inefficient to many 3D CG artists and film VFX professionals. Professionals need to get their work done fast and fine rather than enjoy some tailored 'experience.' In that regard, Apple, which charges half the full cost of its machine just for that 'experience,' still is failing to produce anything worthy to be called 'pro' or 'studio' for serious CG artists. So many KZbinrs think video editing is really high-end CG and it is everything there can be, but the reality is simply not so.

[@jamescheddar4896]

yeah i'm wondering where the other components come from. he probably needs to drop 2.5k on that specific card and CPU, then you're probably dead on for the other components adding up to 1k, like 1.2k if he springs for an expensive SSD?

[@mattaaron6142]

Would have felt a 5900x +4080 would have been the better comparison. 5800x3d is almost exclusively a gaming processor (in productivity it seems to run about the same as a 5800x)

[@choppergirl]

Yeah, I built one of the same specs and only spent about $2,000. And I did it while blind. It was quite tedious and time consuming, to be sure, and was a gamble that I'd pull it all off, even though I've fixed and built hundreds of computers before in the past. A lot of time had passed and computer architecture had changed greatly since my last build in 2018 using 10 year old tech even then that I was more familiar with.

[@halkon4412]

There’s no way you got a 4090, 7800X3D, a PSU with high enough capacity to drive them, _and_ watercooling for $2000.

[@Phiz787]

"I was expecting my custom PC to absolutely dominate the Mac Studio in this test case (GPU Performance)... and... It does." Haha... that deadpan delivery made me laugh so hard. This is a great showcase though. And it does show the convenience of opening a little box thats essentially ready to go performance from Apple. We use them at work and they are very effective tools. Still... if you have the knowhow to build a custom PC... and especially if you play games, there's nothing else for it.

[@cmFuZG9tdXNlcm5hbWU]

the fastest mac of today vs the fastest build of history

[@wwhhyy3945]

you could say the fastest Mac in history, because well it is technically

[@Vandelay666]

"Max studio you just unbox it and you plug it in" it would have been a reasonable statement if the price wasn't insane. For that much money you could hire someone to build your pc, drive to your house with it, plug it for you and install anything you want, and still would be much much cheaper than an apple product

[@fermitupoupon1754]

The thing is if you buy a pre-built windows pc it's also just a matter of plug and play. Maybe there's a windows update that needs to be done, but that's it. If you buy a 300 euro dell office PC you don't need to install windows, Dell did that for you at the factory.

[@CallMeTonyga]

Plug and play, no end user finessing. Scale it up like business uses where any small troubleshoot is costing money. Think of enterprise where company pay premium as long as it work.

[@GodUd6589]

Basically with Mac you pay more "but" you have the possibility to play videogames at much worse quality.

[@rickquackstley]

Macs aren’t meant for gaming though

[@Armadurapersonal]

For me its a Linux computer I can use Fusion360 and the Adobe suite

[@sgru9558]

is this video sponsored by Apple? Why on earth would put a 7800x3d for production? very weird

[@xaviermoorman6247]

first, why x3d, thats specifically made for gaming, plus its not even top of line lmao

[@jayvee8502]

I think R9 7950X3D would be a better competitor. at $5K still fits the budget

[@pinktuna3693]

It's probably because of the cooling restrictions on the case. The x3d chips run very cool compared to everything else on the x86 arch. He could have gone for the 7950x3d but I'm guessing either it runs too hot or he doesn't need the extra cores for his use case

[@kafaims]

@@pinktuna3693its liquid cooled and he stated he doesnt even need that much power anyways

[@serotonindefizit]

The too quiet argument is only for your line of work For sound engineers it is remarkable to have their computer next to their screen and it not being an issue, in that scenario any fans would be horrible

[@Phoenix_1991]

I have never heard anyone complaining about a device being TOO quiet 😅.

[@Z3t487]

He is not complaining that it's too quiet, he is saying that he would not complain if it was a bit more noisy, so the machine working harder to get even more performance.

[@Aquamaui.mp4]

The second i can play Overwatch 2 and Valorant flawlessly on Mac im leaving Windows. Its been so so great for Editing in Lightroom, working in Final Cut etc. for me. Really hoping for more in the Gaming Section from Apple and the Devs. Thanks for the video!

[@AponTechy]

Lol 🤣

[@kibabyte]

Overwatch2 already works with the newest Beta and some tinkering. Valorant not so much sadly

[@Aquamaui.mp4]

@@kibabyte yeah i think anti cheat aka vanguard could be a big part why its not working yet. Fingers crossed that we get there one day!

[@PerfectCode]

Terrific video. I’m more curious about Apple’s SoC plans after the iPhone 15 Pro’s A17 Pro announcement and their focus on its GPU capabilities and how it may lead into the M3 series and future M chips. Seems like they may finally be working towards significantly improving their GPU performance and perhaps one day proper AAA gaming will be mainstream on Mac.

[@casualmime2792]

Unlikely since they have incredibly poor developer tools. Current mac performance is around 60% worse than it should be across the board because of how Apple implements certain tools and restrictions. Not surprising their best can manage 6% of a 4090.

[@jeepld]

Apple developers tools are top notch. What are you smoking ?

[@iiropolso1381]

@@casualmime2792the main issue is just that the tools are different and most devs dont want to bother optimizing for mac

[@lightbox617]

The interface is getting more similar. The pricing for machines of equal capability is getting closer. The M2Mini that I bought with an M2 equipped dock will outlast my last $1,100 Asus (which I have loved) by years

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

I suppose if you have a pure-Apple workflow (ProRes footage), this thing would be a beast. I'm sure the KZbin performance is in part because of the hardware support for H.264 and HEVC. Even Intel QuickSync works well because it is hardware-based encoding. I saw Apple now has AV1 support in their latest iPhone chip, which I'm sure will make its way into M3 at some point. When that happens, I may grab an small army of MacMinis.

[@posterblue]

Your system parts may have been only $5,500 but what would you charge as fair wage labor costs for someone of your skill level to research/build your pc system for someone else and preload software so it would be ready out the box for the consumer? I bet the prices would be quite a bit closer. Great vid as always.

[@iamcarl4591]

It won't be 150 USD at max Plus, the hardware shown in this video isn't even close to the best (128GB(or more) ram and water-cooled i9 13900kf with water-cooled RTX 4090 ti oc). With those hardware, it might come close to the Apple studio but with a much better performance. Not to mention the competibity and ability for a PC to add more storage easier, run a different system, control multiple things from different eco systems(with some bit of work) and more freedom for you to control basically everything. The only "pro" of the Mac, is the power consumption... but let's be true here. Who will actually give a fuck to that?

[@milkyy4168]

@@iamcarl4591 His build is way more than that. Bro made custom cables for every component just so the lengths were tailor made, just to name 1 of the ridiculous things he’s done to the build. It’s a triple rad setup as well, runs cooler than stock. Power consumption gives more benefits than just lowering power bills. Less noise makes a speaker setup actually viable compared to pcs not watercooled. Less heat output is better for the chip and also doesn’t become a space heater. Sucks when you gotta turn on your ac to use your pc.

[@iamcarl4591]

@@milkyy4168 From my experience from editing videos and run 3D blender projects, a good 360 water-cooling system is already sufficient for the CPU and GPU to be in a efficient temperature(70°c at maximum). Your point about power consumption is only valid if you aren't using it for full time professional work. Simply because the power usage of the computer only takes up 20% of the bills of a studio needs at most. Cutting that half but with a 150-500% jump in performance for time saving isn't a big deal. Besides, computers are consumables which means upgrading isn't something rare. So combining the cost of the computer. I don't think the Mac is worth it

[@milkyy4168]

@@iamcarl4591 I think you missed most of my point, I specifically mentioned non watercooled pcs having noise problems, not needing to worry about potential problems with liquid cooling is just good peace of mind. I think they’re great but not everyone will be fine with having liquid so close to pc internals. I also made the point that it’s not just saving power bills that efficiency is good for. The amount of heat a 800 watt pc would generate is literally on the level of electric heaters. In warmer climates it becomes something to actually consider, but instead you talked about power costs, which wasn’t my point.

[@iamcarl4591]

@@milkyy4168 Fine, so let me try to prove my point again. Firstly, the potential danger of a water cooled system is not much of a concern. Liquid cooling has come a long way. My car's Turbo, engine and transmission are liquid cooled. Do they fail often?(Please don't mention BMW) Furthermore, do you know how servers are cooled? Liquid! It's a mature technology. Even a cheap one can keep on running with no problems whatsoever. However, if you insist that's a serious concern to you. Yes a Mac suits you because in this case, why even bother building one yourself when you can just get one without using much of a brain cells. The second one. Wattage to temperature is concerning in Hot places. I live in Hong Kong with an average temperature hitting 32°c per month (Except for "winter" which is around 19°c). I can't cope with the temperature anyways so I always leave my air-conditioning on to keep the temperature around 24°c. Plus, sometimes my co-worker doesn't even turn on my AC when it's 30°c outside. Guess what, the PC is still running at its best while the M1 MacBook air(I know it probably isn't fair but that's the only Mac device I have) slows down significantly. Not to mention the difference between the amount of power the AC used when I turned on my PC vs off, is basically neglect-able. Thirdly, can a Mac studio be compatible with a studio graphics card like a RTX 5000 for example. I'll consider these factors when choosing my work machine. However, if you don't want to do any research or "trouble" when building. I guess choosing a Mac would be solid

[@tubasweb]

You can always upgrade the PC in the future and compare to the M3 or whatever the latest non-upgradable mac is 😂

[@Teccie46]

For info for anyone that doesn't quite understand. He spec'd with one of the fastest GPU's to boost the price, but then tested 'performance battle' using the GPU only once. You can spec down by about $2000 and even add on a better CPU to be well under the the price of the M2 Ultra mac studio and be equal in performance for all the tests. See this alot with people wanting the Mac to be the best and cheapest. Reality is, the mac will never be the cheapest option, despite performance being equal and certainly not better....