Archaeological Evidence of the Book of Mormon Gets Stronger and Stronger

#Christian #Christianity #LatterDaySaints #kwakuel #cardonellis #braderico #LDS #funny #Christianity
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[@establishingzion688]

Love the work Hayden and Jackson are doing! Well done, brothers!

[@krismurphy7711]

I have complimented them on their TONE and non-confrontational approach. They are sincere. They are also young.

[@thestickofjoseph]

Thank you!

[@zmig7793]

@@krismurphy7711 - tone and feeling good do not equal truth. I know longer use my feelings to discover truth.

[@barbwire7449]

@@zmig7793 How true!! There have been many well intentioned preachers behind the pulpit who are teaching false doctrines, leading people with good feelings straight to hell.

[@randythomas219]

Great work by these young men, keep up the great work and I'm looking forward to your productions

[@StompMom5]

Awe.... The stick of Joseph Brothers. Love their channel💥🔥💥🔥.

[@FTTLOMS]

I never knew about the 204 Anachronisms. I thought it was 20!! haha! But With over 170 of them now found, how can that not be indication that there is more to this book that people have thought?

[@budgillett]

Ah, a most excellent observation thou hast made, dear interlocutor! "For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety" (Proverbs 24:6, KJV). The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ, restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith and preserved within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, is indeed a volume rich with complexity and historical nuance. Thou makest note of what some label "anachronisms," yet it is heartening to perceive that thou also takest into account the unfolding discoveries which are elucidating many of these very points. In the Doctrine and Covenants, it is declared: "Ye cannot behold with your natural eyes, for the present time, the design of your God concerning those things which shall come hereafter, and the glory which shall follow after much tribulation" (Doctrine and Covenants 58:3). Alma, in his discourse with Korihor, asserted, "What evidence have ye that there is no God, or that Christ cometh not? I say unto you that ye have none, save it be your word only" (Alma 30:40). Thus, it is of supreme importance to remain vigilant in one's quest for understanding, ever mindful that the Gospel in its fullness is found solely within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The complexity of the Book of Mormon serves not as a stumbling block, but as an invitation to deeper study and spiritual reflection, continually testifying of the divine origins and eternal truths found within. "And all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good" (Doctrine and Covenants 122:7). May thy search for truth continue to be rewarded and may the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as contained within the holy scriptures and the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, ever serve as thy guiding light. Amen.

[@KnightTimes]

Do we have any reference to these 170? I am aware of some that have been considered "refuted" such as the horses and steel sword... but the horse anachronism is "refuted" by saying that giant horse-like creatures called Tapir may have survived to be ridden, and the steel sword is "refuted" by showing a non-steel sword from the area.

[@budgillett]

@@KnightTimes , Thou bringest forth an inquiry most pertinent and thought-provoking concerning the anachronisms attributed to The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ. The discussion of these so-called anachronisms hath indeed been a matter of considerable debate among scholars and students of this sacred text. The mention of 170 such items being found doth speak to ongoing research and discoveries in the fields of archaeology, history, and related sciences. It is important to note that what may initially appear as an anachronism can, with further study and understanding, be seen in a new light. This process of discovery and reinterpretation is not unique to The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ but is a common phenomenon in the study of ancient texts and histories. Regarding the specific examples thou hast mentioned, such as horses and steel swords, it is indeed true that some have proposed alternative explanations, such as the identification of Tapir as horse-like creatures or the reinterpretation of what constitutes "steel" in the ancient context. These discussions highlight the complexity of interpreting historical and scriptural texts, especially when considering the linguistic, cultural, and technological differences between ancient and modern times. In the context of faith and scripture, it is also vital to consider the spiritual and doctrinal truths contained within The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ. As it is written in Moroni 10:4-5, "And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." Furthermore, the Holy Bible, in Proverbs 3:5-6, doth counsel, "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." This scripture reminds us of the importance of seeking divine guidance in our quest for truth and understanding. In conclusion, while scholarly debate and research continue regarding the historical and cultural context of The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ, let us also remember to seek spiritual confirmation of its truths through prayer and the witness of the Holy Ghost. For it is through this divine confirmation that we can come to a fuller understanding of the truth and purpose of this sacred record. Amen.

[@barbwire7449]

@@KnightTimes BOM evidence is always "maybe", "possibly", "plausible", or "probable". There is no direct indisputable evidence to validate the BOM. Thomas Stuart Ferguson was a dedicated and devout Mormon and amateur archaeologist who spent his whole life searching and digging for just one clue to validate the BOM. He eventually accepted the fact the BOM was not true, and there would never be any archaeology to confirm the history of Mormonism. If the foundation to any religion is false, then that religion is false.

[@EricVMag]

Thomas Stuart Ferguson died before many of the best pieces of evidence for the Book of Mormon were discovered. There is plenty of very good evidence in the Old World.

[@treystone9464]

"The Valley of Lemuel", with a “continually running” river into the Red Sea the Arabian government denied existed, is now a known documented perennial stream in the region of northwest Arabia - and it happens to be known by the Arabic name "Wadi Tayyib al-Ism" which means "The Valley of the Good Name" *twilight music*

[@redfightblue]

Are you sure it flows continually? Google maps show it dry.

[@krismurphy7711]

Wow.... a stream or river or pond or lake is "evidence"???

[@treystone9464]

@@krismurphy7711Yes, evidence. Did you confuse the word evidence with proof? Or are you playing dumb?

[@StompMom5]

@@treystone9464 This Murphy is spamming comments. Just another hater which is evidence right there🤣. The book of Mormon tells us....in the last days the saints will be hated. Satan knows he'sis running out if time so the attacks are in full force

[@dcarts5616]

@@krismurphy7711you’re super interesting. You, with your 6-8 copy pasted angry rants could probably gain a sizable like minded audience. Why don’t you stop rage posting on ALL of the LDS faith building videos and go create your own KZbin channel. Name it, “Kris and the angry at the Mos crew” and I bet you get a huge following. Anti-faith content (especially anti-LDS faith content) is like way popular right now, it’s like shooting fish in a barrel getting followers. Maybe you can monetize your angry rage? I’m being serious, I’m sure you’d be successful. I’ll even create a catalog of my favorite 7 or 8 copy paste apologetic quotes and spam your channel to boost engagement on your channel, kind of like how you do on this and other channels. In all seriousness, you’re better than this, Kris. I know it.

[@special3585]

Looks like the Mormons have found their own “Answers in Genesis’ KZbin channel.

[@WARDRADIO]

Lol. If only we had that kind of funding! Lolol

[@jonathanwilliams1641]

@@WARDRADIO Yes, just think of all the glorious lies you could spread!

[@3october1993]

Exactly what I was thinking, This is their Ron Wyatt moment as well...random archaeology tortured and contorted to firtwhat they already think is true.

[@EricVMag]

@@3october1993 Can you tell me how they tortured archaeology to fit their narrative? What's inaccurate about the claims they're making on Old World geography?

[@3october1993]

@@EricVMag Finding an Oasis in Oman and reading about a tropical paradise in the BoM is not evidence that anything in the BoM is true. Finding an old sword that kinda, sorta, chemically can be called a primitive form steel doesn't suddenly turn the BoM into a documentary. These dudes are starting with the assumption that the BoM is true and trying to turn everything they see and find into evidence. They are doing the exact same thing Kerry Muhlestein did. This is a quote directly from him: "I start with an assumption that the Book of Abraham and the Book of Mormon, and anything else that we get from the restored gospel is true...therefore, any evidence I find I will try to fit into that narrative." That's exactly the opposite of scholarship and why videos like this are so laughable. It's why people are bailing out of the LDS church as if it were a stricken airplane. This is a religion for the willfully ignorant. It even elevates feelings to where the feeling alone is evidentiary. Pray about it and you'll be told it's true? what kind of nonsense is that?

[@Sissysue22]

The earth will help confirm the truth of The Book of Mormon

[@quinton01]

And yet, Christ will not.

[@dylanwilliams2202]

@@quinton01 Christ already has confirmed the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon to many people.

[@t-pain3343]

How’s that?

[@Sissysue22]

@@t-pain3343 the archeological evidence that is being found. Read a case for the Book of Mormon by tad callister

[@michaelstory1292]

If we’re playing the science card…People don’t come back from the dead. Never. Yet all of Christendom revolves around this event.

[@kylerobinson7572]

Great video and discussion. Thank you!!!

[@MichaelRogerStDenis]

I appreciate the microphones in your studio so much more now, Cardon. 😅

[@WARDRADIO]

EXACTLY!!!

[@james8996]

​@@WARDRADIO Really if the book of Mormon evidence is stronger and stronger , Why is the book of Mormon nothing but Plagiarism from the Bible then, Let's take Nephi shall we, In the book of Mormon Nephi is Quoting the Apostles and the Writing of Paul 600 years before Paul and the Apostles were even born that's virtually impossible, Because the Prophets in the Bible never Quoted the Apostles, See how dumb Joseph Smith was , Alma 7:10 was written 600 years After ( Micah 5:2) Again the book of Mormon lie

[@dylanwilliams2202]

@@james8996 Are you ok? You are talking nonsense. _"Let's take Nephi shall we, In the book of Mormon Nephi is Quoting the Apostles and the Writing of Paul 600 years before Paul and the Apostles were even born that's virtually impossible"_ Really? Because when the Nephi quotes Isaiah he flat out says he is quoting Isaiah so does the Nephi does Nephi say he is quoting Paul? No. Ever think maybe the message of God doesn't change no matter who says it and God sent the same idea's to Nephi and Paul? _"Alma __7:10__ was written 600 years After ( Micah 5:2)"_ Lol read what you said again. I think you are trying to say the usual thing people say about this verse so Alma didn't say he would be born in the City of Jerusalem. Alma 7:10 “And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is *the land of our forefathers,”* The phrase “land of Jerusalem” or calling Jerusalem "the land of our forefathers" is a common phrase in the Book of Mormon and is used by its writers to refer to the place they originally came from. When they talked about the city then they said the city of Jerusalem. Alma probably didn't know any other place in Israel besides Jerusalem and was saying that Jesus Christ would be born among the Jews, who lived in and around Jerusalem. Let me put that in perspective, if I told you I lived in Kensington you most likely wouldn't know where that is and would ask "Where is that?". If I told you I lived in Washington D.C then you would have a better idea of where that is and not ask me anything. Bethlehem even during Christ's day wouldn't have been very big or all that well known, let alone to someone who lived across the world. Saying "the land of Jerusalem" isn't unique to the Book of Mormon. In 1887, some Ancient Near Eastern documents known as the Amarna letters were discovered and multiple letters say "the land of Jerusalem" . The ancient writer of El Amarna letter 290 even refers to Bethlehem as part of the land of Jerusalem. "But now even a town of the land of Jerusalem, Bit-Lahmi (Bethlehem) by name, a town belonging to the king, has gone over to the side of the people of Keilah" The phrase “land of Jerusalem” has also more recently turned up in a fragment from the Dead Sea Scrolls attributed to the prophet Jeremiah (4Q385a). In another fragment from the Dead Sea Scrolls, also related to Jeremiah (4Q389), a scholar restored the phrase “in the land of J[erusalem]” to a fragmented line. With Nephi leaving Jerusalem around the same time as Jeremiah and him having wrote down "land of Jerusalem" when referring to that land area it doesn't surprise me that people later on in the Book of Mormon used the same phrase as Nephi. These ancient sources show that the “land of Jerusalem,” is actually evidence of the historical authenticity for the Book of Mormon.

[@james8996]

@@dylanwilliams2202 Kill that Bullshit, Nephi was Quoting the Writing of Paul, and Alma 7:10 Said Jesus was born in Jerusalem that is a lie, So stop trying to cover up the lies of Your false Prophet Joseph Smith because that's all he was, And now Nephi why Would he Copy 24 chapters from the book of Isaiah simple Nephi is Joseph Smith,

[@DJFoodTravel]

I appreciate this channel and many of its videos. @TeacherInZion podcast is a podcast for Christians, Mormons, ex-Mormons, other Book of Mormon believers, or anyone questioning their faith or the Church, with an emphasis on seeking the truth, wherever it leads, but especially in gaining a closer relationship with Jesus Christ.

[@alexarnold6253]

I'm getting my wife onto these shows now. Yet another great show!!

[@briandillard3809]

Served my mission in LA county. Santa Clarita was the place to be. Don’t know how much it has changed since Cali turned into Wokeville.

[@VAATAUSILI4139]

Brethren, please keep up the good works. It's a blessing to all mankind. The Book Of Mormon is, the word of our ETERNAL PARENT'S.

[@3october1993]

No, it's the word of a known charlatan. it deserves to be rejected in its entirety and the only appropriate response to it is mockery.

[@VAATAUSILI4139]

@@3october1993 THE Book of Mormon is, the word of GOD the Eternal FATHER and HIS WIFE, GODDESS our beloved HOLY Eternal MOTHER.

[@3october1993]

@@VAATAUSILI4139 Right. And you are convinced of this because a known and convicted 19th century con-artist who married children and other peoples' wives, told you so after reading it from a magic rock in his farm hat while hiding behind a curtain. Yep. sounds completely ligit. Air tight. Sign me up. By the way, your caps lock is sticking.

[@MrArmkiller]

Hey guys, a lot of work has been done on Lehi's journey. The great resource is a book and documentary by Warren Ashton " in the footsteps of Lehi". Much luck and happy hunting!

[@rconger24]

They know. It's probably on their schedule to bring attention to it. And IF they can get into the current oman/yemen which was much easier to get into ten or twenty years ago when to research was done. Right now the area is figuratively over-run by Star Wars Sand People of Tatooine.

[@Empisee]

Not only did he get the name and place of Nahom archaeologically accurate, but the word itself suggests sorrow and mourning - and in the Book of Mormon, this place is associated with a death and burial of a member of their company.

[@t-pain3343]

Works out perfectly in an echo chamber

[@Irvingdector]

Wow

[@budgillett]

Ah, what joy it is to hear thy words, which do indeed resonate with the truth that hath been revealed through the holy scriptures! In the words of the Psalmist, "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path" (Psalm 119:105, KJV). Likewise, the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ serves as a beacon of light and a testimony of our Lord and Savior. Thou hast keenly observed the marvelous congruency between the name "Nahom" in the Book of Mormon and its archaeological corroboration, a detail that underscores the book's divine origins. Verily, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints possesses sacred writ and teachings that supplement and enhance the richness of the Holy Bible. These doctrines, restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith, provide the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to all who seek to know the divine will. I commend thy astute observation, which hath been sustained by the light of God's wisdom. As Alma counseled his son Helaman, "By small and simple things are great things brought to pass; and small means in many instances doth confound the wise" (Alma 37:6). Similarly, the Doctrine and Covenants assures us that "Truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come" (Doctrine and Covenants 93:24). May thy continued journey in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as taught in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, ever bring thee closer to the divine love and eternal truths which the Lord has seen fit to restore in these latter days. Amen.

[@EricVMag]

@@t-pain3343 Huge cope on your part. It's becoming harder and harder to laugh at people you hate.

[@t-pain3343]

@@EricVMag but you still laugh :)

[@outlawedmedia4336]

The problem I have when it comes to book of Mormon archeology is that I always get these really flashy and convincing presentations but I can never go do the research on my own because the sources are never properly cited. I might see pictures in their presentation of burial mounds, or artifacts, or this and that, but never sources that I can go and see for myself that aren't wrapped in the Mormon belief system. Wayne may for example has very nice presentations with a lot of pictures and a lot of artifacts but again I can never verify what I'm seeing. He doesn't ever post coordinates of the locations that he takes pictures of so I can't look on Google Maps or I can't go there myself. The pictures of artifacts are great but they don't really help corroborate The Book of Mormon and could easily just be Native American artifacts.

[@ThePlotFather]

You aren’t likely to find it for two reasons… First: facts are a poor foundation for faith. We could talk about that for hours, but the point is, there are people that try to obfuscate these facts, and God doesn’t stop them. Second: if you claim that ancient Americans had swords, or metal of any kind they will blacklist you and tarnish your reputation. I can go out and dig up dagger and sword shaped pieces of steel that track back to the nephite era, and they will burn me if I publish the scientific facts. The devil works with liars and conspirators… always has… always will. Literally the inventor of gaslighting.

[@stanmayo1805]

I have had excellent success myself. In fact in this presentation I paused and googled, "Jericho sword." The Israel museum describes the sword in much more "flashier" form... As for Wayne May, he is not the only one that has researched the heartland theory for decades. You will find Rod Meldrum does a better job of citing his sources as well as Johnathan Neville.

[@JIKOKALOL]

I know, it's a joke.

[@iknovate]

There are all sorts of locations in Illinois with artifacts for public display, particularly in Kirkland.

[@outlawedmedia4336]

@@iknovate Artifacts of what exactly?

[@jasonmdt]

Oh my look, an actual positive video! Keep it goin guys. We also believe :)

[@zmig7793]

I know right!! They tone was so positive and polite! I’m convinced they know what they’re talking about!

[@jenneferc8768]

I can't wait to see it!!!!❤❤❤❤ thank you for doing such hard work!

[@pong320]

So to the faithful, believing member of the LDS church; I have a simple question for you: Do you really believe a guy in the 19th Century dug up metal plates of ancient American tribes living in North America after an angel appeared to him and revealed to him where to find the plates? And he translated them from a language still unknown to modern scholars into English?

[@dylanwilliams2202]

Yep

[@oldgranny410]

Sure do!!!

[@kastsports3528]

@@dylanwilliams2202 So you are a Strangite? Because James Strang said that on 9/1/1845 an angel of God appeared to him and showed him where ancient metal plates were buried. Then on 9/13/1845 Strang dug up the plates from the "Hill of Promise." The plates were seen by 4 witnesses. Strang then translated the unknown alphabet used on the metal plates which were authored by an ancient Native American named Rajah Manchou of Vorito and the plates came to be known as the Plates of Voree. The plates told of how an ancient native people had been defeated and they were no more but that a mighty prophet will find these hidden plates. Strang was a member of the LDS Church and when Joseph Smith died he claimed to be the rightful successor to lead the church and his followers included Joseph Smith's brother William, his mother Lucy Mack Smith and William Marks who was the president of the Nauvoo Stake. Later, Joseph Smith's son Joseph Smith III would lead the group that was started by Strang and even Emma Smith later became a member. But let me guess; you don't believe any of that, do you? But you do believe the same basic set of claims by Joseph Smith because that is what you have been indoctrinated to believe.

[@kastsports3528]

@@oldgranny410 So you are a Strangite? Because James Strang said that on 9/1/1845 an angel of God appeared to him and showed him where ancient metal plates were buried. Then on 9/13/1845 Strang dug up the plates from the "Hill of Promise." The plates were seen by 4 witnesses. Strang then translated the unknown alphabet used on the metal plates which were authored by an ancient Native American named Rajah Manchou of Vorito and the plates came to be known as the Plates of Voree. The plates told of how an ancient native people had been defeated and they were no more but that a mighty prophet will find these hidden plates. Strang was a member of the LDS Church and when Joseph Smith died he claimed to be the rightful successor to lead the church and his followers included Joseph Smith's brother William, his mother Lucy Mack Smith and William Marks who was the president of the Nauvoo Stake. Later, Joseph Smith's son Joseph Smith III would lead the group that was started by Strang and even Emma Smith later became a member. But let me guess; you don't believe any of that, do you? But you do believe the same basic set of claims by Joseph Smith because that is what you have been indoctrinated to believe.

[@dennyv8572]

No, it's better than that. This said, "Lost language is a type of Egyptian." So why didn't the indigenous use hyroglyphs and this lost language. They're saying these descendants burried these artifacts, and the entire language was then lost.

[@Wonderboywonderings]

When is the docuseries coming out? Where?

[@shawnbrigance3993]

Thanks guys! Love it 👍

[@ssf9903]

Loved this! I’m so thankful that I don’t need physical evidence. I have already received a very strong, spiritual confirmation that the book of Mormon is the word of God. There’s no doubt in my mind!

[@krismurphy7711]

Thus the remaining list of dozens of anachronisms don't bother you? The lack of evidence doesn't bother you? No DNA...No steel...No wheel...No horses etc etc etc doesn't bother you?

[@StompMom5]

I'm with you!! I know the book of Mormon to be true!! It's the greatest book ever written and as far as evidence, we're seeing with our own eyes Nephi's vision of the lasts days come to pass. Every single detail is showing up. It's exciting times

[@krismurphy7711]

@@StompMom5 You mean like Revelations?

[@tria8572]

After 20 years member i realized that i was live in such hallucinations with saying I know the book of Mormon is true and the words of God, nope i know nothing except i just inspiring by reading it, not real knowing if it is real or fiction, i found the same common senses when i read the Qur'an, Vedha, Bagavad Gita, Maha Bharata or even Harry Potter stories, when i read those books i always came into the same imaginations and the same emotions according what the story i was read. So i will never claimed that i know it is true because it is just a big LIE.

[@krismurphy7711]

@@tria8572 Well said. I've said over and over "Who could read The Book of Mormon" and NOT feel warm and fuzzy. Everytime i watch the different versions of movies about Christ..."Jesus the Christ"."Greatest Story Ever Told" even the scene with Christ in "Ben Hur" I feel emotional. IF our Heavenly Father and Christ felt it was so important to "restore Christ's Church" to the Earth, I NOW find it hard to believe they would use Joseph Smith, fraudulent money digger...later Polygamist with YOUNG GIRLS...LIAR...ENEMY OF FREE SPEECH. After almost 200 years of "The Restoration" LDS Membership in the World is 1/1000 of the World Population. Hardly a record of success for something of supposed ultimate importance.

[@leslyvevedmc782]

When the docuseries comes out, where will it be? KZbin, Netflix...?

[@Themanyfacesofego]

These poor young guys are too young to remember the sad story of Thomas Stewart Fegusson.

[@ShinzoLinzo]

They have to make a movie about this guy! Talk about dedicating your life to finding evidence for the Book of Mormon and coming up empty-handed and then losing your faith. That must've been heartbreaking!!

[@Themanyfacesofego]

@@ShinzoLinzo Perhaps a documentary would be better. I think a movie would need to show something good coming out of Ferguson's story...but in reality it is quite depressing. He died relatively young for a Mormon. Perhaps the grief and heartbreak sent him to an early grave! Maybe someone will make a movie about the Midnight Mormons in the future. I'm sure their story will have a few twists and turns to come. They'll probably end up whining and crying on Mormon Stories in a few years!😂

[@adamholloway7963]

I was thinking of Thomas Stuart Ferguson when I watched this video too.

[@brb5506]

@@Themanyfacesofego Your KZbin handle says so much about you and where you're coming from. Don't make it so obvious that for you, "It's all about me, me, me."

[@Themanyfacesofego]

@@brb5506 Re: Thomas Stuart Ferguson. I first heard about him in 1988. He was born too early... and died too young to be able to share his story on social media. It would have made a great Mormon Stories Episode.

[@zachras9643]

I love the work they are doing.

[@zmig7793]

News flash … they’re not doing any work … only the appearance of work. No one outside the church looks at those findings and come to the conclusion that the BoM is historical. And when I say no one, I mean the ones actually in the fields of these studies … archeologist, linguist, botanist, anthropologist, sociologists, geneticist, etc. None of these fields of study corroborates the BoM. They find evidence to the contrary… and then Mormon apologist have to play clean up and convince you that you can still trust the BoM. Give me a break

[@barbwire7449]

There are always extravagant archaeology claims by the LDS church, that, in the end, are eventually debunked by the scientific community outside the church. It is a shame that the church and the prestigious BYU academia continue with their charade. There is nothing to be gained by "crying wolf" every time an arrowhead or trinket is discovered and connecting it to the BOM. One of the church's antidote answers is that only a small percentage of America has been examined. Dig for worms anywhere in the Holy Land, and one will stumble on an ancient artifact that will support a Bible verse. Only a few months ago, an Israeli shipwreck coughed up numerous Christian artifacts, including a "Jesus Ring" dating back to the third century A.D. Every square inch of the Middle East, including the foreign countries surrounding Israel, are calling out to archaeologists, "come and dig here. No need for a shovel, just bring a spoon".

[@wendyfoster5579]

@@zmig7793but you spend a lot of time watching and commenting on something you claim you don’t believe. Seems like a waste of time on your part to me. Actually there is a lot of scholarship but for people with a closed mind it probably doesn’t matter.

[@adamholloway7963]

@@wendyfoster5579 You said, "Actually there is a lot of scholarship but for people with a closed mind it probably doesn’t matter." LOL! Do you believe the earth if flat? Because I have heard that EXACT same argument from flat earthers. So, your statement is true, then you must be just as close minded for not accepting that the earth is flat.

[@zmig7793]

@@wendyfoster5579 - Funny you’re calling me closed minded even tho I am watching a video that goes against what I believe. Learning all sides to a position is being open minded. When I saw the title of this video I didn’t just skip it and discard it. No … I thought to myself, let’s see what they found. I was excite to see some good evidence that corroborates the BoM. But like always … they never actually have evidence even though they claim they do. How about you? Would you ever be open-minded enough to view arguments that go against your confirmation bias. Or do you watch only pro-LDS videos?

[@lindamann3970]

When will the doc u series be?

[@deanschwenk1610]

Fayetteville Ohio. Hebrew Oil Lamp and Minorrah carved into the ground. Still seen the part that remains from Google maps. Old site maps show it is fully identical until half paved over. Mark Krispin, come to terms !

[@DAD-yf6fi]

First episode I've seen and I gotta say, I'm very impressed! You are a great interviewer. You're very open seem like you genuinely want to listen and learn while also asking the critical questions in a respectful way that keep things in a good tone. So many people can't to that now days and its like they crave argument rather than conversation. Very well done! I'm definitely subscribing.

[@carsonlofgren8536]

Wonderful episode as always!

[@karolynwrightgainesmusic]

Thanks!

[@WARDRADIO]

Thank you, Karolyn!

[@deanschwenk1610]

The Bat Creek Stone.. other stones with Hebrew in museums here in America

[@tbishop4961]

😂

[@THE_KlNG]

When does this come out?

[@BlueJayBirdSaint]

What is their website/KZbin channel?

[@Irvingdector]

On KZbin: The Stick of Joseph

[@PapaKryptoss]

What makes you think you can prove what 100s of other arechalogists have tried to prove and can't

[@WARDRADIO]

No other archaeologists had the maps. But these two weren't the first ti find Bountiful, or the Valley of Lemuel, or Nahom, or the route across the Empty Quarter. We've known about those for decades. The internet still won't acknowledge them, but that's the same internet that says Pluto isn't a planet... so...

[@jenme7926]

Since the Book of Mormon is true, none of the evidence surprises me. But at the same time, it's very interesting to see it being found. So cool!

[@jonathanwilliams1641]

How good critical thinking works: First, start with the conclusion. Second, only pay attention to the most minimal evidence which kinda sorta supports your conclusion. When arguments against your conclusion or your evidence are raised, ignore them because they aren't faith promoting.

[@strider2929]

@@jonathanwilliams1641 spot on comment.

[@james8996]

​@@jonathanwilliams1641 The Mormon church and it's Founder Joseph Smith are nothing but liar, Let's take the Story about a Israelite family migrated from Jerusalem in the time of ( Jeremiah) The Question I have is did the Mormons read Jeremiah or about the Curses GOD placed on Israel doing the time of ( Jeremiah) So let's Prove the Mormons liars straight from the Bible shall we,

[@james8996]

​@@jonathanwilliams1641 The Mormons say that a Israelite family left Jerusalem in ( 600 BC) let's see if Migrated is apart of the Curses GOD placed on Israel ( Jeremiah 15:1-4 now I Want Any Mormon I don't Care if it's Russell Nelson to read to me from ( Jeremiah 15:1-4) Migrated is apart of the Punishment GOD placed on Israel, Read it to me

[@tonygil4372]

Where can people go to see archeological evidence? Where are the museums? Where are the artifacts?

[@payaj2815]

Does anyone have a list of this acronyms that people are say about JS and the B of M?

[@fredeisele1895]

Do you have a reference for that ancient steel making process?

[@janiceworthen5718]

Shadiversity on KZbin episode on the Jericho sword

[@fredeisele1895]

@@janiceworthen5718 Thanks! The specific title seems to be “Is the Vered Jericho sword really made of steel?” There are others but this one seems to tie things together. It provides a link to the Israel museum which appears to be a primary source. A follow on with some nice links, “When was steel invented? and the MAGIC SWORDS of ancient times”.

[@tbishop4961]

They weren't making "steel" at the time. Only wrought iron from a bloom

[@EricVMag]

@@tbishop4961 It was steel.

[@tbishop4961]

@@EricVMag lmao. No

[@roburry]

Date of First Vision - March 26, 1820, Date that Book of Mormon offered for sale - March 26, 1830

[@krismurphy7711]

CLAIMED "First Vision." And yes....a lot of time between those to dates, And lots of collaborators/sources avail.

[@EricVMag]

And then Joseph Smith memorized 500 pages and dictated them back to whoever was the scribe.

[@kingimatthews4481]

So if I were a Canadian at the time the copy rights were being sold, I would get all the money , right? its like selling your birth right.? after all they tried to secure the Plates they wanted to sell the copy rights.

[@dubei5661]

Wow! Ward Radio with normal sound! Nice change.

[@michaeldraper5105]

Really enjoyed the discussion. Thank you.

[@deanschwenk1610]

It takes 550 days to sail from Middle East to America. Joseph guessed right ? And he was Jacques Cousteau ?

[@joshua.snyder]

No way in heaven, or hell that a small group of Israelites constructed a transoceanic vessel to make such a voyage. 🤣 They had neither the skills, and especially not the resources to do it. Mormon fundraisers have ventured and putzed all over the Arabian Peninsula and the only, (very sketchy) "evidence" is a three lettered rock, and a few disjointed inaccurate name connections from 18th century chartography. Smith didn't even guess right.

[@tbishop4961]

No. He didn't guess right

[@tbishop4961]

It takes about 4 weeks to sail from Israel to Spain. Another 6 to 8 weeks to sail to Florida

[@againstanti-mormons]

Great episode. Good work...

[@bemorebetter5343]

Interview Wayne May, guys.

[@harambeboy]

What happened to the audio?

[@barbwire7449]

There are 25,000+ archaeological discoveries that support the history and narrative of the Bible, both Old and New Testament. So, how many discoveries have been made supporting the Book of Mormon, and how many of these evidences have been peer reviewed and verified by reputable archaeologists and reputable scientific organizations outside the LDS church? I am not speaking of "possibilities"; I am speaking of tangible, empirical proof.

[@pong320]

There are 25,000+ historical pieces of evidence that support the history and narrative of the Spiderman comics. Therefore, Spiderman is true. No, there is almost NO evidence for the fairy tales in the Bible. Adam and Eve? False. Noah's Flood? False. Tower of Bable? False. The Exodus? False. The resurrection of a dead human named Lazarus? False. And of course the biggest one of them all: Jesus rising from the dead? False.

[@Themanyfacesofego]

​@@pong320 There is evidence for the Bible as history...but whether God had anything to do with it is a matter of faith.

[@barbwire7449]

@@Themanyfacesofego No theology or scientific evidence can prove that Jesus was who He claimed to be. Christians accept it by faith. Many things in the Bible is by faith. But, the history and narrative of the Bible has been proven down to the minute detail. No archaeology finding has disputed any verse when studied correctly. There are presently 35,000 active excavation sites in the Holy Land still cranking out artifacts and ancient inscriptions to prove the authenticity of the Bible. Compare that to the BOM, but, frankly, there is nothing to compare.

[@EricVMag]

Most of the Book of Mormon happens in the New World. Two HUGE complications: 1. the Book of Mormon makes no mention of known places, so we don't know where to look; 2. Archeology in the Americas is decades, if not centuries, behind archeology in the middle east. Almost everything the Book of Mormon mentions in places we do know - that is, Lehi's journey through the desert - has been proven true or, at least, plausible. We have coordinates, video footage, etc.

[@barbwire7449]

@@EricVMagAccording to Dr Michael Coe, the foremost expert on Maya civilization, the BOM is just a fable, and there is no distinct evidence of the history of Mormonism anywhere, and there will not be. Plausibility is the same as "maybe", and can be used to even claim "Alice in Wonderland" is possibly true. How convenient that the BOM uses vague verses as to location of cities and temples,, while the Bible verses are used by archaeologists as a guide for their diggings, often to the minute detail in their discoveries. But even without the aid of the Bible, one can dig for worms anywhere in Israel or the Middle East, and Biblical artifacts will come crawling out of the ground. The Ketef Hinnom Scrolls date back to 600 B.C., about the date the BOM claims the lost Israelite tribe landed in America, but there is not one piece of evidence to support even that claim.

[@karolynwrightgainesmusic]

Great Video guys. Love it !! Keep up to great work !

[@nancid5265]

My fav saying. You dont know what you dont know. Meaning: you know things like 2+2, you know you dont know things like know ( maybe) you cant perform heart surgery. But you dont know what you dont know.

[@pong320]

So in the 29th minute the host said the ancient maps "correctly identified the place of Nahom, correctly spelled and in the location that the Book of Mormon says that it is." No. None of this is correct. How is Nahom correctly spelled if on one map it is Nehem and on another it is Nehhm? I've looked at these maps and there are a lot of names on them and it really isn't hard to believe that this is just a random coincidence. Especially since the names are DIFFERENT.

[@WARDRADIO]

Have you ever seen Indiana Jones and the last crusade? You wouldn’t have survived the crumbling steps…

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

I concur. That part of the discussion is not correct.

[@krismurphy7711]

@@WARDRADIO So your response to your BS is a movie analogy???

[@thestickofjoseph]

Semetic languages do not use vowels in their written form. The maps were the interpretations of the cartographers on how to spell it based on what they heard. You get the variation because the mother languages of the different explorer/cartographers was different...

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

@@thestickofjoseph None say Nahom though....

[@lehibryant95]

Midnight Mormons needs to interview Wayne May ..

[@dcarts5616]

I wish that they would! Maybe they will if this docu-series does well enough and they come to the Americas and do videos finding evidences here. In N America, Meso-America.

[@lehibryant95]

@@dcarts5616 i been trolling them alot of episodes just hoping they stumble across Wayne May.. probably not a good way to Introduce someone to Wayne but Wayne is the man

[@joshua.snyder]

Good Lord, no. He is a money chasing charlatan. Just like Rod Meldrum, Hannah Stoddard and the Proctors.

[@barbwire7449]

Actually, they should interview any of the reputable archaeologists from the Smithsonian Institute. They would debunk all of this.

[@dcarts5616]

@@barbwire7449 yeah, reputable. Why are they hiding artifacts then?

[@josephrobinson7454]

Very good program. I watched this in Dec. but is still very good. FYI, there several other groups that have traveled Lehi’s trail and We’re the ones who actually found these sites mentioned in the BofM. The prophet Joseph Smith mentioned to some of his “associates;” sometime before his death; “I you would come to live into the nest century, you will see evidences of the Book of Mormon come forth in droves”. What are we now fortunate enough to see come forth?9

[@josephrobinson7454]

Should be were the ones not we’re

[@richardellsworth840]

Great stuff, I have a firm testimony. I would like to hear their explanation og 1Ne. 17:1 where it says they traveled nearly eastward til they reached the sea. He didn't say they wandered around the Arabian peninsula. They had children and built no fires. Thoughts?

[@GarySaint-xm6tr]

Years ago I saw a photo in the Ensign, I believe of a stone in ruins with Nahum engraved in it. Also, there are copper mines in the great lakes area, swords and breastplate, cities that match the blueprints of cities described in the Book of Mormon in north America

[@performanceenhancingdude5362]

Come on man! There were no fucking horses in America for helaman or Ammon or Moroni or Mormon to ride in battle as is depicted multiple times throughout the BOM. Pretty massive anachronism to misconstrue mounted cavalry literally a century before horses were even glimpsed on the shores of the New World. But hey breastplates lol.

[@jodikephart5895]

Lol uhhh where is this evidence?

[@GarySaint-xm6tr]

@@jodikephart5895 The cooper mines are shown in Wayne Mays Quick Start to Comorah. The mathmatically laid out cities by the Hopewell mound builders are also in same video.stat with thst. It's irefutablr facts

[@blusheep2]

As far as I understand there is no evidence that any native population figured out anything beyond copper and gold. Both melt at low temperatures whereas iron requires a furnace. The altar in Saudi Arabia was NHM. No one knows if that was Nahum, Nahim, Nohim, etc. The altar itself was not an Israelite altar which has horns on it. Not only that but the NHM is believed by scholars to be a family name and not a place name. I do think this is one of the only things that Mormons have to point at. There is a lot of speculation around it. So at best, the Mormon should only say, mmaaayyybbeee this is the same place. The swords in the old world were really just bats with obsidian rock built into the sides. It was more of a bat then a sword but was known to remove heads. The problem is that the Book Of Mormon specifically refers to rusting swords which takes iron. None of the cities match the blueprints of the cities in the Book of Mormon. There are similarities but they are stretches. BoM cities had walls while the "walls" of the native cities were more like a fence.

[@adamholloway7963]

@@GarySaint-xm6tr If Wayne May's interpretations really are "irefutablr facts", why doesn't a single scientific discipline accept Wayne's "irefutablr facts" as true evidence supporting Book of Mormon historicity? No need to stress about the question if you aren't sure how to answer it. I will answer it for you. It is because Wayne May's interpretations of evidence supporting BofM historicity are simply conjecture driven by confirmation bias. That's why.

[@user-og2wt3le4j]

I don't know what archaeology you are referring to. Most archaeologists would says there is no evidence of many parts of the BM. One glaring thing is you must have artifacts where large groups of people congregate. So battles for example should have remnants of military being in a geographic location. There would also need to be housing foundations, garbage dump sites, metallic objects (mentioned in BM), plus bones of all those people. Contemporary archaeology has found none of it so far.

[@WARDRADIO]

Ok. What geographic location is lacking evidence of conflict Bunny?

[@adamholloway7963]

​@@WARDRADIO For starters, the Hill Cumorah in New York. It has been positively identified by multiple LDS Prophets, Seers, and Revelators as well as other LDS General Authorities as the same Hill Cumorah described in the BofM that was the location of the final battle of the Jaredites and the final battle[s] of the Lamanites and Nephites. There is zero archaeological evidence that any significant battle occurred at that site, let alone one that included millions of people. According to the BofM and the LDS Church, the Hill Cumorah is the location of two massive battles (or series of battles) described in the BofM where a total of 2.2+ million, including Jaredites (2+ million Jaredites, Ether 15:2-32), Lamanites (unknown number), and Nephites (230,000+ Nephites, Mormon 6:10-15), battled to their deaths, “and they contended in their might with their swords and with their shields,” (Ether 15:24) “being armed with weapons of war, having shields, and breastplates, and head-plates, and being clothed after the manner of war”, (Ether 15:15) and “with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war”. (Mormon 6:9) According to the BofM, Coriantumr was the sole survivor of the Jaredite annihilation (Ether 15), was discovered by the Mulekites, and lived with them for approximately 9 months until he died (Omni 1:21). So, who cleaned up all the 2+ million Jaredite bodies/bones and weapons of war without leaving a single indicator that 2+ million people died around Ramah (aka Hill Cumorah, NY) around 600 BC? According to the BofM, the Lamanites did not clean up the bodies after they destroyed the Nephites: “and their flesh, and bones, and blood lay upon the face of the earth, being left by the hands of those who slew them to molder upon the land, and to crumble and to return to their mother earth.” (Mormon 6:15) So, who cleaned up all the 230,000+ Nephite bodies/bones and weapons of war (not to mention the Lamanite bodies and weapons of war) without leaving a single indicator that 230,000+ people died around the Hill Cumorah around 420 AD? Since the Hill Cumorah has been identified, by LDS Prophets, Seers, and Revelators, as the location of the two great BofM battles where 2.2+ million people died with their weapons of war, we know exactly where to look for evidence for BofM historicity. It should be right there on the LDS Church owned land on and around the Hill Cumorah in Manchester, NY. It should be easy for the LDS Church to find evidence for its BofM historicity claims. So, why hasn’t it been found when they know exactly where to look? BYU has an archeology department. The Hill Cumorah in NY would be the perfect place for that department to focus its resources and professionally survey the Hill Cumorah. There is no need to professionally survey the rest of Central America or even North America to find BofM historicity evidence when LDS Prophets have told everyone exactly where to look. So, why isn’t the LDS Church leveraging its resources to have the Hill Cumorah professionally surveyed? Based on all the research I have done so far, I believe it is because the LDS Church knows that no BofM historicity evidence will be found there. Why provide even more proof of “lack of evidence” in the very spot LDS Prophets, Seers, and Revelators have identified as the location where specific BofM events took place. In other words, I believe the results/conclusions of a professional archaeological survey of the Hill Cumorah and the surrounding area would not be faith promoting and that is why they are not doing it. If they anticipated that it would be faith promoting, I see no reason why they would not pursue it. Especially since many members are leaving the church over BofM historicity issues. They have the money, the BYU archaeological department, and they own the land. Nothing is preventing them from having that area professionally surveyed except themselves. Since no credible evidence has ever been found supporting massive battles with 2.2+ million people and their weapons around Cumorah, NY, then those stories might be mere fiction. If those two key stories are fiction, then it stands to reason that the entire BofM may not be real history either. Which is more reasonable to believe, that multiple civilizations mentioned in the BofM, consisting of millions of people, associated with various cultures, set in numerous geographically distinct cities, skilled “in fine workmanship of wood, in buildings, and in machinery, and also in iron and copper, and brass and steel, making all manner of tools of every kind to till the ground, and weapons of war”, who used horses, chariots, elephants, domesticated livestock, and domesticated agriculture, existed on the American continent, but have oddly left no trace of their existence? Or, that Joseph Smith made it up?

[@JesusRuiz-wy5jm]

They are talking about Mormons archeologists so of course the evidence is there

[@barbwire7449]

@@adamholloway7963 "Tell a lie; make it big, and everyone will believe it".----Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda Minister, Adolph Hitler. Joseph Goebbels would be proud of Joseph Smith.

[@zmig7793]

@@adamholloway7963 - well said!!!!

[@UtahKent]

To quote Hugh Nibley; "Time vindicates the Prophets."

[@mikkifrompreston4396]

Time didn’t help the book of Abraham…. it proved it incorrect. Do we ignore those facts and discoveries, because in time they will be proven wrong?

[@adoramay9410]

​@@mikkifrompreston4396Yeah, then the LDS had to backpedal from the claim that it was a literal translation. Claiming it was divination or some other bs.

[@katykristensen302]

Nahom was uncovered by archeologists around 12 years ago.

[@vonsowards1297]

I’m excited for this show to come out. All the interviews with these guys they always share the same things: steel, Nahom, and Valley of Lemuel. I get it, they need to save some of their stuff for the actual show. As much as I want to support them I don’t get excited for new interviews because I feel like there’s nothing new (yet).

[@stylez3051]

And this was stuff that was confirmed long before they came along

[@jerrysutton7293]

A small steel bow, arrows, and quiver was found by French archeologists.

[@siznoejoee3284]

@@stylez3051 who came along ?

[@EricVMag]

@@jerrysutton7293 Do you have a reference for that? That's awesome

[@reasonablebb1724]

Do we need physical evidence?

[@galbyman]

Just subscribed!

[@WARDRADIO]

Awesome! We need more Celts!

[@dcarts5616]

Kris everything you bring up has been debunked. There are plenty other issues out there, new ones actually, that really could cast doubt on an unsuspecting member of the LDS faith. Why don’t you go find those and talk about them? You are using arguments from the 1830s made by angry pastors with no people to pastor because they converted to LDS or disaffected members who thought they should be prophesying for God and not JS. Seriously man, go update your arguments. The pdf that you read by the profit Joe R isn’t it anymore. Move on and let it go!

[@krismurphy7711]

BS. You keep claiming this over and over and over. And you leave out THE NEW HISTORY that The Church was forced to bring into the light and discuss. "Rock in the Hat"??? HAHAHAA Joseph Marrying YOUNG TEEN GIRLS!!!! False Prophecies. Land Speculation and Profiteering. LYING about Polygamy and getting Others TO LIE ABOUT IT FOR HIM. Destroying a Free Speech printing press in a vain attempt to stop it from disclosing MORE dirty laundry.

[@krismurphy7711]

How many Original Church Leaders left the Church and denounced Joseph Smith?

[@TheRegimentalscot]

And yet... None of the witnesses of the plates ever denied that they were false, all the primaryband secondary witnesses never denied the existence of the plates, and while many church leaders fell away (due to their pride and eventual disagreement with Joseph Smith) the Church - despite claims and predictions to the contrary, did not fall and fail, but thrive and grow. Every wild claim you have made (which has been made by every anti for 190 years) has been easily debunked by doing actual research of the primary and secondary sources. You're spouting old recycled trash that has been disproved by anyone with any intellectual integrity who has really looked at the actual first hand sources.

[@chrishumphries7489]

@@krismurphy7711 How many of the witness denied their testimony of seeing an angel or handling the plates, even after having had a falling out with Joseph or the Church? The answer is 0. That’s actually pretty powerful evidence in and of itself. How easy would it have been to deny this, unless you knew what really happened and could not deny it?

[@zrosix2240]

@@krismurphy771110, 8 returned, none of them renounced the Book of Mormon, just Joseph Smith as an individual (likely for polygamy)

[@zmig7793]

Aweee mannnn!!!! This video title got my hopes up😢. I thought I was going to hear about more strong archeological evidence, but all I heard was old anachronistic arguments and the promise of new evidence about to be revealed. Then I was like … ok I look up this steel sword discovery but was told I can’t find it on google or the internet. Man I can’t wait to hear about this new discovery!!! I wonder if mainstream archeologist will finally come to the same conclusions that we have (had) that the BoM is a trustworthy historical record because of this new discovery. The suspense is killing me …

[@vbvoice]

Sarcasm much? 😉

[@zmig7793]

These guys!!! It’s just funny sometimes!

[@EricVMag]

Cope some more. Pretty much everything in the Old World has been proven real or, at least, plausible. Archeological evidence in the New World is still scarce, but many anachronisms are also being proven plausible.

[@jimwettstein6312]

So is it the place called Nihm, in Yemen. Can find that on Google maps.

[@rogerpreble440]

Bro, your channels with grow a lot faster and be less irritating. If you would do a lot less talking and a lot less commentary and a lot less talking about yourself and let your guest educate us✍🏽

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

Absolutely agree. Way too much restatement, not enough facts.

[@joshua.snyder]

This whole channel is about entertainment and attention for themselves. If you want facts, or education you're in the wrong place.

[@rogerpreble440]

@@joshua.snyder I think there are some interesting facts… I just think the commentator is full of himself… Lol

[@samualthelamanite7560]

No facts here sheep. Just gaslighting, whitewashing, deflection, blame shifting and word salad ! The narrative the church claimed and is now running from has been blown to pieces! It’s not true guys !

[@wendyfoster5579]

Keep in mind that Laban had this sword and he was wealthy and in the military, he wasn’t the run of the mill man so he would have had the money and power to have a steel sword.

[@zmig7793]

Laban is a fictional character. He’s not real.

[@QuarrelsomeYeti]

Just here to say the Shoes video was in 2006, 17 years ago, not less than a decade 🙃🙃👴🏻

[@timothyfloogle]

But if we prove it, what happens to the space for faith?

[@blusheep2]

At least Bibilicaly speaking, faith isn't "belief without evidence." Faith is a belief with the character of hope and trust. We have faith in the promises of God knowing that God is not a liar. We have faith in Christ meaning we put our trust in Him. Never is it about believing without evidence. Jesus demonstrated who he was. He didn't just tell people to believe. He walked on water, he healed the leper, and He rose from the dead. He also appealed to the scriptures that told of His coming. He never asked people to believe without reason to believe. Now faith pleases God regardless how one comes into it, but when you build your faith around subjective feelings without considering the reasons to believe its true then there is no way of knowing if your faith is placed in something true or if its placed in something you just want to be true.

[@pong320]

Interesting how they failed to mention Ether 7:9 which says that Shule "made swords out of steel." The Book of Mormon chronology would place Shule at around 2200 BC and in the Americas. This is about 1500 years before the first known steel(ish) sword these guys reference from the other side of the planet.

[@RS-tz2zn]

That is kind of the point though. The skeptics were wrong about steel swords existing in 700 BC. If skeptics were wrong on this, then why couldn't they be wrong on 2200 BC either? Although, there are those that don't think the book of ether starts until 2,100 BC, so they would obviously disagree with your 2200 BC statement, even if you got it from a chronology, just realize that is a best guess by some.

[@pong320]

@@RS-tz2zn Not the point at all. The Anachronism is steel swords in the Americas. Doesn't matter if it is 2200 BC or 2100 BC or 500 BC. One cannot honestly refute that there were no steel swords in the Americas in 600BC by pointing to the evidence of a steel sword OUTSIDE of the Americas in 600 BC. That is the point.

[@michaelmurphy2112]

@@pong320 If there were steel swords in existence in the middle east in 600 BC, and Lehi's family took one from Laban and brought it with them on their journey, it would have ended up in the Americas (yes, I'm suggesting steel migrated, not that it was carried by a swallow). The fact that they say they have evidence of the former means there is potentially evidence for the latter, it's just matter of time before its found. I understand if you want to be skeptical of what they found as it hasn't been published or peer reviewed, but steel has been around since at least 1400 BC, so, without knowing the exact time frame of Ether beyond estimates, it could fall in that window.

[@BookOfMormon4GenZ]

I'll take you up on the challenge of 2200 BC for steel used by the Jaredites. I'll be anxiously engaged in watching what archaeologists come up with in the near future.

[@RS-tz2zn]

@@pong320 " The Anachronism is steel swords in the Americas. Doesn't matter if it is 2200 BC or 2100 BC or 500 BC." No...there were two different anachronisms that skeptics had cited. One that you said about 2200BC in the Americas, and a separate one about steel swords in the old world existing in 600 BC. Obviously, the one they were referring to was the 600BC one in the old world with this discussion. You then brought up a 2nd purported anachronism (separate from the 1st one) that I agree has not yet been disproven. " One cannot honestly refute that there were no steel swords in the Americas in 600BC by pointing to the evidence of a steel sword OUTSIDE of the Americas in 600 BC." No one is saying that every purported anachronism of the BofM has already been disproven. But, please don't be dishonest and imply that because some remain, most that existed at the time of printing of the BofM haven't been disproven. That was the whole point of the video, is how would JS know to put in things in the BofM that were unknown to science at the time of its publishing banking on the fact that somehow science would later on justify them. The fact that skeptics have been wrong on most of their original anachronisms of the BofM points to the fact that it is very possible they are wrong on the rest as well.

[@lindamann3970]

Thank you guys! You know how people like visuals

[@JQMurrell]

Haha "hearing anti-bloggers" is now your gift of the Spirit. 😂😂😂😂😂❤

[@susiervo1]

All they have to do is dig up the hill kumorah and you will find millions of swords and skeletons that will prove the last great battle.

[@BookOfMormon4GenZ]

Yesss!!! I love seeing this younger generation going after evidences for The Book of Mormon and have success! Before this, Hugh Nibley was the man! Many of the journal articles about The Book of Mormon published by F.A.R.M.S. were spot on. I'm loving this!

[@krismurphy7711]

Thus the lack of evidence.

[@mickski548]

@@krismurphy7711 bro get a life no one cares what you have to say in the comments your internet troll that literally no body likes in person! You dislike the church but you involve your self in it all the time! You got issues

[@zmig7793]

@ Loaded Goat Acrylics - just stick to feelings and personal experience, because evidence is not on you side Loaded Goat. Notice please, that the leaders of the church always push prayer, feelings, and personal testimony as your pathway for truth … they never say go find the evidence. Why? Cuz the leaders know the truth and perpetuate the myth by convincing you to trust your feelings and the leaders of the church. But then you get a bunch of zealous young members who want to prove the BoM and Church are true … and it’s ALWAYS a let down. At the end, these same young members as they get older and older will learn there is no good evidence. In 10 years these same guys will either leave the church or be the ones saying “Trust the leaders” “Trust the experience and spiritual witness you had when you read the BoM” “No one can take that away from you” “What you experienced is real and true”. I’ve been at this for decades now and it’s how it always goes.

[@GeorgeDemetz]

Great podcast guys!!!

[@establishingzion688]

Future commentors: please be patient with Kris Murphy. The poor guy doesn't know there are better things to do with his life while sojourning in the great and spacious building...like a bowling alley.

[@toddbender3463]

He's literally tortured by the existence of pro-church video. He exists in a self inflicted hell on earth. If only the internet would permanently go out at his house so he could finally find a bit of peace

[@Steve-Utah]

@@toddbender3463 he has thousands of comments on this channel. I can't even imagine how many he has on live streams

[@krismurphy7711]

At least there will be evidence of my existence. My words will be known. There will be no doubts.....like The Book of Mormon. And, I use/used English and not some simpleton fabrication ( "Reformed Egyptian Charactors")

[@krismurphy7711]

@@toddbender3463 YOU ASSume. My Hell WAS inflicted on me. I was indoctrinated. Slowly having doubts...finding more TRUTHS and FACTS. Then, thanks to the Internet and its pressure on Church Leaders, a floodgate of more accurate history. Rock in a Hat. Joseph marrying YOUNG GIRLS. 1832 Version of The First Vision. Racist Church Leaders & Blacks......... The Hell I live in now is the 5+ decades of wasted time and money.

[@krismurphy7711]

@@gordianknot9595 I put in my Missionary time. Served a full mission. Had perfect attendance for 4 years in EARLY morning Seminary. Had a couple of years of PERFECT attendance at EARLY MORNING Priesthood. I've subbed in Seminary. Taught Young Men/Women/Sunday School. Served in Branch / Ward leadership. THE PERFECT RESULT OF INDOCTRINATION FROM BIRTH.

[@heathwiniesdorffer6921]

Question? In the first Book of Mormon video did Lehi and Jeremiah cross paths ? Jeremiah 4:27. Is so my mind is blown.....

[@rickyodom1201]

they worked as keepers to the ark of convent if that answer question

[@arcondpvp]

This is a very interesting podcast- im a current member of the church so im not asking this in a "gotcha" type of way but can you please send me a video or article that goes into detain about all 170 of these innacuracies that were later found out to be accurate. I cant seem to find anything about this anywhere

[@WARDRADIO]

KZbin doesn't like links, but you can find it by searching "Book of Mormon Howlers" or "Time Vindicates the Prophets" or "Matt Roper Time Vindicates" etc. Stuff like that. It's an awesome body of research

[@mikkifrompreston4396]

also check out the CES letter ☺️

[@arcondpvp]

@@mikkifrompreston4396 I have, although most of it is pretty flimsy and falls apart with basic research. Will you check out Jim Benett's response to the CES letter?

[@mikkifrompreston4396]

@@arcondpvp i have checked out jim bennets response. It was a great approach for someone who is a progressive mormon looking for answers. Have you watched the mormon stories interview with him? Its a really respectful, in-depth discussion on these topics

[@arcondpvp]

@mikkifrompreston4396 No I haven't, will do tho. Are you currently a member or "progressive mormon"?

[@danielclingen34]

It’s one thing to believe something for which there is no evidence, some may call that gullible or naive, it’s a completely different level to believe something that has so much evidence to the contrary. The BoM, pogp& Joseph’s other claims fall in the latter category.

[@happyarchaeologist]

LOL I'm an Archaeologist. Your logic may need to review the real facts and "Evidence of the Book of Mormon Gets Stronger and Stronger" should be Nothing was found. Show me the facts? Show me the artifacts? I have been working with the National Park Service and working for the Church. I found nothing in the USA for any Book Of Mormon artifacts! DNA to Money system.

[@TheArkisSteady]

So basically, when I’m figuring out, anti-Mormons have more faith in Joseph Smith than we do. They have faith in him as a brilliant guesser, and somehow knowing all these things on his own. At some point, you have to believe a single human would need, supernatural, help, and that is why we have faith in God.

[@mrtheasley]

The elevator pitch: If the Book of Mormon is true, it behooves everyone to take the time to investigate it personally.

[@GarySaint-xm6tr]

I recently watched a video that showed not only did Joseph Smith recieve the plates on the day the jews blew the shofar, there was a very rare star araingement that has only happened twice, once when Joseph recieved the plates, and September 23rd 2017. Virgo, with 12 stars, abover her head and some other stars in her belly waiting to give birth. . Matches up with Revelation 12

[@qtasabutton21]

Where did you watch read this?

[@GarySaint-xm6tr]

@@qtasabutton21 Ill look it up and send it.

[@katbentley7]

I just want the interviewer to let his guest get through a whole thought without being interrupted

[@diaryrecorded5524]

I was looking for a nice way to say this

[@stylez3051]

Do any of the stories/history from The Book Of Mormon align with any stories told by the Native people of the Americas? Do they deny or acknowledge the BOM?

[@zmig7793]

@ STYLEZ - funny thing … I just got back from vacation. One of my stops was Cozumel. Our tour guide guided us through some forest. He gave us a ton of history, practices, and beliefs of the Mayan people. I saw an alter where human sacrifice was performed. It was amazing. At the end i approached my tour guide and ask him if he has ever heard of a native people called Nephites or Lamanites? I wish I would have had my camera on to record his response. He looked at me like I was speaking in tongues. He couldn’t even pronounce the it and it was clear he was hearing those names for the first time in his life. I find it disrespectful that the LDS church tells them that what they think they know about their heritage and history is all wrong.

[@stylez3051]

@@zmig7793 to be fair now that I think about it I don’t think the nephrite’s and the laminites were ever native to America other people were there long before they ever came along like the Mayans and other cultures and people until they eventually killed themselves off I don’t know (the nephrite’s and laminates) according to the BOM anyway 🤷‍♂️

[@zmig7793]

@@stylez3051 - yes you’re right. Well actually there’s no know people group called Nephites and/or Lamanites. They are a made up people group and no one has ever heard of them outside the Mormon faith. According to the BoM - they did live a long time before the Mayans … but Mayans do not trace their ancestry back to Lamanites, nor any people group that came from the Middle East. The only people who say such a thing are LDS.

[@stylez3051]

@@zmig7793 that’s not true Google says the first Mayan city’s date back to 2000 bc but if I’m correct the BOM talks about them coming across people who were already established in the land I don’t think the BOM claims they were the first people to arrive to America. The laminites and nephrite’s never existed bk in Jerusalem they become a small group of people when after they had established themselves in America. The reason I don’t think there’s is much knowledge of them is because they weren’t really around that long and they eventually killed each other off into extinction. I wouldn’t say there is zero knowledge or history of them I think it’s there somewhere, I’m a Māori from NZ/Aotearoa and we have stories about them. We have sweat potatoes that come from South America if I’m correct and they came over on the canoes with the first Māori settlers that came here to Aotearoa/Nz around 800bc I think I think it’s much earlier than what it says on Google. I’m a member and I do have a testimony of the BOM but it’s been a while since I read it but I just don’t like not questioning my beliefs and I don’t like just believing anything these guys say or any other LDS member for that sake I try look at any claims these guys make about evidence as a skeptic.

[@mattaw5412]

You need to interview George Potter from the Nephi Project! He’s written books on all of this :)

[@adamholloway7963]

Around 27-28 min into the video, the guests in the video acknowledge that there are maps predating the Book of Mormon that reference a place similar in name to Nahom referenced in the BofM. However, the guests go on to claim that there were NO maps in the USA with similar references. One of the guests, speaking of those maps, even says, “None of them have been found in the United States, let’s be clear.” That same guest around the 29 min mark says, “There has never been a map in the United States that has Nahem on it that dates to the 1700s.” Unfortunately, the guest's claim is incorrect. In 1763, a German surveyor and mapmaker named Carsten Niebuhr produced a map which contained the place name "Nehhm" at a location approximately twenty-five miles northeast of the Yemen capital Sana'a (Travels Through Arabia, And Other Countries In The East, 1792, Vol 2 by Carsten Niebuhr & In the Footsteps of Lehi: New Evidence for Lehi's Journey across Arabia to Bountiful, 1994, Deseret Book Company, p. 5). In 1792, Robert Heron published a two-volume translation of Niebuhr's first work titled Niebuhr's Travels through Arabia and Other Countries in the East. (Travels Through Arabia, And Other Countries In The East, 1792, Vol 2 by Carsten Niebuhr & On Nahom / NHM by S. Kent Brown, Chairman, Department of Ancient Studies, BYU, S.Kent, February 23, 2001) A second map was drawn in 1751 by Jean Baptiste d’Anville, a French cartographer who also published a book on ancient geography. Jean Baptiste d’Anville names the location “Nehem”. (A New Map of Arabia: Divided into Its Several Regions and Districts by Jean Baptiste d’Anville - Library of Congress & A New Map of Arabia: Divided into Its Several Regions and Districts by Jean Baptiste d’Anville - David Rumsey Historical Map Collection) His work was translated into English in 1814. Both of these works were printed in English and available in the US prior to the publication of the BofM and both of these works were available in the Allegheny college collection approximately 221 miles from Palmyra, New York. (Allegheny College 1823 Catalog, d'Anville's book on ancient geography is listed on page 18, Carsten Niebuhr’s work is listed on page 44) It is possible that these same works were also available elsewhere in the US.

[@thestickofjoseph]

You're right. We misspoke. It is still unlikely that one would have ended up in Joseph's hands.

[@adamholloway7963]

@@thestickofjoseph I appreciate your integrity in acknowledging the misstatements. We all make mistakes. To err is to be human. I am curious about your quantification on the likely hood of Joseph having access to those books with those maps. I do not claim that JS actually read one or both of those maps because, as far as I have found, there in insufficient evidence to conclusively prove that claim. I also would not claim that he did not read one of those maps, again, based on insufficient evidence to prove such a claim. Based on that lack of evidence, what evidence to you have that leads you to the conclusion that "It is still unlikely that one would have ended up in Joseph's hands"? Especially since there were multiple libraries and book stores [not to mention newspaper publications] within 5 miles of Palmyra that JS would have been able to freely peruse.

[@thestickofjoseph]

@@adamholloway7963 This is one of the things we will be going into in the docuseries. Because my answer is, "I don't know" and I haven't found anyone who does. From what I know thus far it is unlikely because this was a book that, although present in the U.S., was rare and I would think it would be almost exclusively in university libraries. That said I don't know. We will be going back East to the surrounding colleges and checking the records ourselves. This docuseries and our KZbin channel is not about creating propaganda, it is about sincerely seeking answers and putting in the work. The fact that the only close resource shown is the one at Allegheny College and that it is 200+ miles away from Palmyra and 300+ miles from where Joseph translated the BOM I feel it to be a stretch. That said we will see what we find as we get boots on the ground in that area.

[@patricklyons8023]

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed! Repent and seek the true Gospel and true Jesus of history.

[@adamholloway7963]

@@thestickofjoseph I honestly want to believe you when you say, "This docuseries and our KZbin channel is not about creating propaganda, it is about sincerely seeking answers and putting in the work." However, based on what I saw in this video, it seems like your motivation is rooted more in validating your preexisting belief in the Book of Mormon rather than a dispassionate unbiased evaluation of the evidence. As such, it would be more likely that you would produce pro-BofM "progadanda" rather than not. Just my opinion though. Good luck with your docuseries.

[@joes6525]

Nice to see these guys covering the early part of The Book of Mormon before Lehi and his family came to the Promised Land in the Heartland of North America.

[@silvereagle1717]

Thanks! You should have Scott Wolter on! He has Henry Sinclair, Knights Templar true founder of America! He claims they brought their treasures to America in several trips and Benjamin Franklin sent them to bring the treasure to fund Americas revolution! They believed Marry and Jesus were married and she was pregnant at the crucifixion. The Church hated them for this and tried to destroy them on Friday 13, October 1307. This would be fascinating!

[@maryfletcher9905]

@ time marker 7min. Why are u calling the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the MORMON Church?????😮

[@maryfletcher9905]

SORRY my above comment was unfounded...please delete it😊

[@maryfletcher9905]

BRAVO!! 4 ur SHOUT OUT 4 TRUTH!😂

[@WARDRADIO]

Sorry, Mary! Sometimes we slip out of habit. We're rebranding soon to drop the "Mormon" piece of our name so we can align with the Prophets counsel

[@OPWasatchReptiles]

😅😅😅 this is the saddest channel on KZbin. So 3 cult members get together and debate amongst themselves. Biased much. How about you bring real scientist and archeologists to the pod.

[@ThePreachingOfHisWord]

They will never! What's really sad, is this cult is nothing new under the sun.

[@grayman7208]

14:00 i learned about the "jericho sword" from a video on youtube channel "shadversity" over two years ago.

[@lukehanson_]

Who is a Latter-day Saint BTW 😉

[@grayman7208]

@@lukehanson_ yep, he explained that in his video, and in previous videos.

[@janiceworthen5718]

@grayman7208 Thank you for mentioning the Shadiversity video! Good information!

[@rickyodom1201]

temple zero is one those thing any that one that has been to temple can tell you wait the meaning of symbolisms on the floor mean its only been found in last 2-3 years

[@mlatouable]

Has anyone done a google search on this Jim Gee character? I only seem to get results from Mormon sites, not even a wikipedia article. Seems pretty sus. (Also like no nat geo articles on his discoveries...)

[@jonathanwilliams1641]

He goes by James Gee and I can only find the one published article in the BYU Book of Mormon Studies site: The Nahom Maps. It appears that he is a linguist at BYU. Maybe he is looking for a single evidence for reformed Egyptian? We will be waiting a Looooooooong time for that as it is make believe.

[@sarawillett7431]

Aren’t the questions about “no steel swords” mostly about the time period in America? That was my impression, am I wrong?

[@krismurphy7711]

Steel ANYTHING

[@pong320]

You are not wrong. They are shifting the goal posts. The anachronism is steel swords in the Americas 3,000+ years ago and these guys are claiming that a steel(ish) sword found a thousand years later on the other side of the planet is evidence that the anachronism doesn't exist.

[@BehavingBradly]

Not really. Some historians theorize that steel was produced only minimally in the ancient middle east and was a carefully guarded secret (we just barely found the one, the Jericho sword). It appears it was likely minimally used in the New World, and is not mentioned again after 400 BC either because the secrets died with their owners, or because other weapon technology was more practical and cost effective to produce (eg, obsidian-bladed swords). What I find more interesting (and this isn't necessarily a jab at you personally) is when any of the anachronisms or name issues get resolved, critics either say it's not a good enough resolution, or just default back to "yeah, but there are still these other things, like what about horses?" This happened with metal plates, cement, barley, Nahom, Alma, chiasmus, fortified cities, large stones with writing, and on and on.

[@krismurphy7711]

@@BehavingBradly LOL...."Nahom" is resolved? Just because TBM scholars and apologists CLAIM resolution of the many problems...doesn't mean they are resolved. And admittedly, there is a "remaining list" of 30+? THAT is a big number.

[@jonathanwilliams1641]

@@BehavingBradly Wrong on so many fronts. It is completely illogical that steel production could be or would be a "carefully guarded secret." That makes zero sense, none whatsoever. That is like saying that skyscrapers could be a carefully guarded secret. The infrastructure required to mine the ore, smelt it in a blast furnace and then shape it and sharpen a sword could in no way whatsoever be a guarded secret. The idea of a few people secretly making steel in their basement is ridiculous. NO historians believe that steel words were being produced around 2600 BC in the Americas. Please name one historian or archealogist who had made such a ridiculous claim. Did you know that mobile phones were actually invented during the Civil War? They were. But they were a carefully guided secret and the secrets died with their owners. Some historians theorize this. I mean, they have zero evidence for it and it makes no sense but it can be theorized and therefore it gives my ridiculous beliefs some validity.

[@paulhallett1452]

That which does not exist can “get stronger”. Mormonism is not belief in what is not seen - It is willfully ignoring what is seen. Nobody can honestly entertain the possibility that the Book of Mormon is non-fraudulent

[@barbwire7449]

It is willfully ignoring scientific facts, or better yet, lack of scientific facts and evidence.

[@rightsongsrighttime]

I can as honestly as possible.

[@t-pain3343]

Why does no one outside BYUs payroll see it that way?

[@WARDRADIO]

Precisely none of these dudes are on BYUs payroll. You gonna be okay?

[@t-pain3343]

@@WARDRADIO outside of these 2 guys, and some BYU professors, who else shares these views? Any professors from Boston College, Duke, NASA scientists, NOAA…. Anyone?

[@celestejohansen]

I saw a documentary where they found a tablet dating around 600bc In Jerusalem that listed a leader named Laban. How would JS know Laban was a leader in Jerusalem in 600bc

[@latterdayinsights9379]

@celestejohansen What is the name of this documentary?

[@blusheep2]

I can't find any reference to the tablets online. Are you sure you got your facts right?

[@arcondpvp]

Can you send me a link to this documentary?

[@adamholloway7963]

Around 31 min mark, the guests claim that an altar in the Middle East with the Hebrew name “NHM” is evidence for the name “Nahom” given for Ishmael’s burial site in the BofM. Hebrew does not have vowels. So, yes, the Hebrew name NHM (nun-chet-men) could be transliterated to Nahom. However, since we do not know what vowels were supposed to be used, other vowel permutations are also likely: Nahum, Niham, Noham, Nuhim, Nuham and so on. 25 different combinations are possible, or 30 if the second vowel is left out completely. To claim that the inscription "NHM" is associated with the location "Nahom" in the BofM, supporting BofM historicity, when the same inscription could also be transliterated 29 other ways, seems unfounded and biased. In order to reach that conclusion, one must have already concluded that the BofM is true and be looking for evidence that can be interpreted to support its historicity. Then that conclusion makes sense. A dispassionate objective evaluation of the NHM inscription does not naturally lead to the conclusion that it is Ishmael’s burial site, as evidenced by the fact that only people who already believe in BofM historicity are making that claim. The only evidence we have for the correct vowel substitution/pronunciation of NHM is the extant pronunciation of "Nihm". In order to connect the NHM alter location with the burial place of Ishmael mentioned in the BofM, we need to assume that “Nahom” changed to “Nihm” without any reasonable evidence to support that assumption. Again, to reach the conclusion that the NHM altar is the location of Ishmael’s burial site mentioned in the BofM, one must first believe BofM historicity and then work backwards to fit the NHM description to support BofM historicity. A dispassionate objective evaluation of the NHM inscription does not naturally lead to that conclusion that it is the burial site “Nahom” mentioned in the BofM. There are alternate explanations that can account for the word “Nahom” in the BofM. Joseph Smith could have created “Nahom” as a derivative of any of the following sources: 1) Joseph had a friend named “Nahum” from the Knight family. (The Knight Family: Ever Faithful to the Prophet, Ensign, January 1989) 2) “Naham” from 1 Chronicles 4:19 3) “Nahum” from Nahum 1:1 4) “Nehum” from Nehemiah 7:7 As mentioned in my previous comment, there were maps available in the US prior to the publication of the BofM [contrary to what these guests claim in this video] that had similar names for similar locations that can possibly account for the “Nahom” location mentioned in the BofM.

[@paulgilchrist808]

Seems pretty far fetched that Joseph Smith would have "created" Nahom and so many details of the story line up with the geography of the area. Especially at such an insignificant part of the story.

[@adamholloway7963]

@@paulgilchrist808 What seems pretty far fetched is the BofM being an actual translated historical record of God’s dealings with ancient people on the American continent, consisting of the Jaredites arriving shortly after the Tower of Babel from about 2200 B.C. to about 600 B.C. and ancient Israelites called Nephites, Lamanites, and Mulekites from about 600 B.C. to about 420 A.D., who traveled to the Americas in/on boats, populations grew to number in the multi-millions, built and occupied multiple geographically distinct cities, were proficient in metallurgy including iron smelting and steel making, used a steel bow, steel swords, domesticated elephants, horses, asses, livestock [cattle, oxen, cows, sheep, swine, goats, and more], chariots, and who are the ancestors of Native Americans. And, the fact that no verifiable material evidence that directly supports the existence of said BofM civilizations in the New World speaks volumes. Why don't any scientific disciplines use the BofM as a historical document to learn and study about ancient Native American history, religion, and culture?

[@kennethmoake1448]

Frankly, I don't follow your reasoning here. "NHM" is the name of the city and the vowels are filler. They found a city with the name described in the Book of Mormon. Its name was those 3 letters. I don't think we should assume that the Book of Mormon spelling was trying to indicate its pronunciation and hence the "vowels" used by those who knew the city. Further, it was predicted to be in that very area relative to the description of their journey through the Arabian peninsula. That is, it is almost directly west of a very convincing leading candidate for the site of Bountiful (and there are not many candidates) on the coast of Oman. The Book of Mormon states that from Nahom they "traveled nearly eastward from that time forth" until they reached Bountiful (1 Nephi 16:34 - 17:5).

[@adamholloway7963]

@@kennethmoake1448 Are you trying to make the point that the "filler" letters don't matter at all? Obviously, people would have pronounced NHM in order to communicate the word verbally and the only evidence we have for the correct pronunciation of NHM is the extant pronunciation "Nihm". So, if Nahom is the correct pronunciation for NHM, what evidence do you have that the pronunciation changed from "Nahom" to "Nihm"? Is there linguistics evidence of that change? If so, please share it because I haven't seen it. The point I was making is that there are other explanations for how the name Nahom could have found its way into the BofM other than that the altar in the Middle East with NHM on it is the burial place of Ishmael. The fact that those who are trying to make the case for NHM to be Nahom in the BofM are those who already believe in BofM historicity is quite telling. BofM believers have been searching for evidence to support BofM historicity since it was published more than 190 years ago. The majority of the BofM is supposed to have taken place in the New World and yet the best evidence that BofM believers currently have to support their belief in BofM historicity is an alter in the Middle East with the name NHM. It is very telling that not a single scientific discipline, as a body, claims the evidence available today supports BofM historicity claims. Not one. The fact that the only ones presenting "evidence" to support BofM historicity claims are those who already believe BofM historicity claims should be very telling. It is called confirmation bias. An objective analysis of all evidence for and against BofM historicity does not naturally lead to the conclusion that the BofM really is an ancient historical record of God's dealings with ancient Native Americans. If it did, there would be multitudes of people outside the LDS Church that accept BofM historicity and the scientific communities would use the information contained in the BofM in their quest to better understand ancient Native American history, religion, and culture. The fact that they don't should speak volumes. Which is more reasonable to believe, that multiple civilizations mentioned in the BofM, consisting of millions of people, associated with various cultures, set in numerous geographically distinct cities, skilled “in fine workmanship of wood, in buildings, and in machinery, and also in iron and copper, and brass and steel, making all manner of tools of every kind to till the ground, and weapons of war”, who used horses, chariots, elephants, domesticated livestock, and domesticated agriculture, existed on the American continent, but have oddly left no trace of their existence? Or, that Joseph Smith, using his vivid imagination and storytelling ability, combined contemporary thoughts, ideas, theories, stories, and beliefs together and created the BofM?

[@greymurdock2]

I’ve looked into both critical and apologetic work and just finished reading the Book of Mormon A lot of it can be a little slow and dull at times but at other times extremely profound enlightening.. it speaks with such certainty, promise, and authority.. I don’t know how Joseph could have dictated the entire book with his head in a hat while having scribes and witnesses present… it’s really a wonder

[@blusheep2]

The scribes and witnesses were behind a curtain. Its not likely that he wrote the book alone.

[@SickAcousticCovers]

​@blusheep2 They actually figured out who Joseph was in league with during this process. Apparently it was God the father, his son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost! The Holy Ghost has even admitted this fact to anyone who asks with a pure heart and real intent. The jig is up!

[@blusheep2]

@@SickAcousticCovers Are you being playfully sincere or mockingly obscene?

[@SickAcousticCovers]

@blusheep2 Haha, I'm being playful. I am an active and believing member, but my response to your comment is completely in jest and can be laughed at with no offense taken on my part.

[@blusheep2]

@@SickAcousticCovers Ha ha. Then we will laugh together.

[@bobwilkinson1217]

The Phoenicians circumnavigated Africa (called Libya anciently) in 610 BCE, the trip funded by Pharaoh Necho of Egypt.

[@joshdb142]

Daniel was in babylon, not israel. That doesn't mean they didn't have lions either though

[@MormonRescue]

18:10 "Have you read the Book of Mormon?" - Excellent! I think that should be the starting point of any discussion about it's historicity. Good show guys!

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

Though surely many haven't bothered, it is very dismissive to ask the serious critic (like me) if I've read it. I would posit, it's likely, I've read it more than the three people in the discussion, combined, or close to it. I've been reading it / studying it, daily, even now, for almost 40 years. That's not to brag, but to show that it's not a great approach, in general.

[@krismurphy7711]

@@rodneyjamesmcguire Their Point is The Time Worn "Book of Mormon Challenge"

[@MormonRescue]

@@rodneyjamesmcguire I hope my point wasn't missed: that it should be the *starting point* of any discussion. I would love to have a discussion with someone who has read it every day for 40 years, because I think I would have so much to learn from your insights. I have problems with 2 groups: those who claim to own the narrative on the BoM because they are the leaders of the church, while teaching lies it the name of the BoM; and those who diss the BoM and criticize it ignorantly, without understanding what it is truly trying to say. There is so much to discuss about the BoM that isn't being discussed because those two sides are so loud.

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

@@MormonRescue The book is not an ancient text. It has interesting stories in it. Some may be even be useful to daily life. However, it's fiction. I don't base my moral understanding on fiction.

[@barbwire7449]

@@rodneyjamesmcguire The BOM is interesting??? The BOM is a sure cure for the hopeless insomniac. No one can read that book and stay awake. Not even Rip Van Winkle.