ARCHER MELTING HUSKARL? New Composite Bowman Is CRAZY

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Edits by / @negodramaaoe

[@jeroen92]

Do they ignore structure armor?

[@allenfinkenaur5001]

sotl's video says they do not ignore siege or building armor

[@QuintemTA]

@@allenfinkenaur5001 So huskarls in a ram, conversation inside that ram must be awkward.

[@misutahowaitodesu]

Only pierce armor I guess only non-siege units

[@imsmeagol911]

My poor goths can't seem to catch a break.

[@BlueShellshock]

I know, I know. Some day they’ll make militia line relevant compared to archer and knight. Some day…

[@theminuskai7453]

@@BlueShellshock theyve been trying for sure but its still not enough

[@kevbertjensen7692]

I'm so glad we got the test we were all waiting for. The elite Mayan Huskarl with no upgrades versus the Post Imperial Age Elite Composite Bowman

[@alexzwanenburg4009]

this comment 😂

[@wchenful]

I think it would be more useful to see how they match up against skirms, knights and light cav/hussar since that'll be what you face in most games.

[@srengaardstedfrandsen6830]

I think i like this unit. It shreads unit, but i has very short range, so onager will melt them. Other archers should also do well because of that low pierce armor and hp. But it would be cool to see them fight skirms, if they ignore their armor.

[@srengaardstedfrandsen6830]

And they could micro scorpions in low numbers, though they would have to get close

[@0oShwavyo0]

@@srengaardstedfrandsen6830they don’t invite siege armory so no outplaying scorps

[@Bloodark124]

@@srengaardstedfrandsen6830 They only deal 1 damage vs scorpions. Since Composite Bowman only have 8 damage and scorpions have 7 pierce armour, the answer that any civs can use is mass scorpions against them.

[@0oShwavyo0]

KZbin mobile’s text input breaks when replying to you because your username is as long as the text box, so I literally can’t even edit that comment to fix the typos right now 😅 go big tech!

[@srengaardstedfrandsen6830]

ahh cool, thoght it just ignored pierce armor straight up

[@allenfinkenaur5001]

Wonder what that's going to look like against Paladin or Cavalier and then with Hussar. The difference will probably be far less dramatic due to the move speed difference

[@theminuskai7453]

however you could also easily fix that by putting halberdiers in front

[@allenfinkenaur5001]

@@theminuskai7453 sure but getting into mixed army comps defeats the purpose of testing. In game there's so many more things going on, not the least of which is micro, but then again microing archers introduces extra fractions of a second to the volley time from frame delay.

[@JohnSmithEx]

Paladins or Cavaliers don't have bonus damage against archers though.

[@allenfinkenaur5001]

@@JohnSmithEx alternatively it could mean that goth cavalier might, stress might, be viable in the Armenian matchup by having virtue of having essentially double HP. Missing the armor doesn't really make a difference against halbs anyhow. But then cost is a factor there too. Idk it's just an interesting thought experiment.

[@QuintemTA]

@@allenfinkenaur5001 Against hussars they may do better than expected because of their base 2 melee armour, I think that might be highest armour of any archer at base but is equal to the Genoese crossbowman with pavise. The results would be similar to Genoese crossbows vs Hussar.

[@Hilipinapixili]

-Wait a minute... Did you just mow down a bunch of huskarls with arrows? -Yeah, so? -That's against the rules, isn't it? -SCREW THE RULES, I'M ARMENIAN

[@jasonkelly7951]

Good reference

[@ardadinkci8898]

goth player produces 50 more huskarl from 10 barracks in the middle of this fight but still a decent response

[@TheGame_123]

and you need to micro this archers against them. Therefore champs are still the best choice against them, you dont need micro and its not a castle unit.

[@geoffrey1955]

Those Huskarls didn't have squires researched. Probably a different result if they were castle age or imp huskarls given the slow movement speed of the bowman

[@chestnutplace77]

they would also have more attack

[@TheGame_123]

yeah i dont why hera doing a half test :) @@chestnutplace77

[@BlueShellshock]

Archers with low armor but ignoring armor is weird to think about. Only 8 attack, but if you’re up against a +4 armor unit, it’s like having +4 attack. And if you’re up against +8 armor, it’s like +8 attack. Archers with +8 attack, so OP.

[@rouxmain934]

Finally a match up where the mongol hussar shines

[@kudoushinichi1412]

Bad mathematics, you are thinking as if normal archers have 0 attack. An Xbow does not apply all its damage, but it has more than 6 points of damage. The difference is not so great.

[@tomassmith2088]

​@kudoushinichi1412 no matter how you slice it, reducing a point of armor is an effective plus attack. 4 attack vs 2 armor is the same as 3 vs 1

[@kudoushinichi1412]

@@tomassmith2088 yes, is a plus attack, but no "so OP, +8 attack".

[@tomassmith2088]

@kudoushinichi1412 it is mathematically the same. I don't know why you are getting hung up on this.

[@manueltena322]

Finally everyone's favourite Dark Souls bow getting AOE love

[@shepardthemailman]

Goths taking Ls left and right 😢

[@justincronkright5025]

Do the Husks have squires there? They seem so slow! It must be the no points of reference there...

[@RandomMagus]

0 upgrade Huskarls, you can see they're Dark Age on the side there

[@pbsoccer2]

"OP Bowmen"

[@rhyskendall4479]

How does damage work is the armour is equal to the attack (in normal units). Is the minimum damage 1?

[@Zottyo]

How do you move the archers like that? Back, and attack, back and attack? What key combination is that?

[@tanuel84]

I Need to learn this!

[@tomassmith2088]

Attack move or Patrol with stop command

[@SergioGarridoPaco]

they are basically a better version of the Chu Ko Nu

[@myopiniondoesntmatter7068]

Not quite. They have far lower range, far less hp. They're literally only good against tanky infantry. Knights/cav have enough speed to close the gap and melt them. The only situation where they are good against cav is if you can stack them in a choke or get super lucky with terrible pathing. CKN in some cases can fight off lc/hussar because they get thumb ring while also trading with skirms better than most archers. They're far more versatile than these new things that feel weak as monks at times.

[@SergioGarridoPaco]

@@myopiniondoesntmatter7068 bro they have the same range and just 5 less hp in imp

[@theminuskai7453]

@@myopiniondoesntmatter7068 chukonu deal 1 damage each shot against huskarls and fire 5 arrows so they deal 5 damage per volley, 1 composite bowman deals 8 damage per shot and because it fires faster than a chukonu volley their DPS is far superior than the chukonu because they deal more damage and also fire faster

[@Glibbers]

@@theminuskai7453 Cho Ko Nu are much better against siege

[@2nightwehunt]

​@@myopiniondoesntmatter7068bro said weak as monks while monks are the most broken unit in the game

[@LCH974]

Can you please try vs Eagles and Ghulams ?

[@Bloodark124]

Ghulams still kill them if they are bunched up, as per Mike's empire video. I'd imagine resources wise Composite Bowman > Eagles as eagles is even more gold intensive than Composite Bowman.

[@tomassmith2088]

Fun fact, elite mangudai attack bonus vs siege is plus 5. Most siege have pierce armor higher than 5 , so these might be treb snipers

[@kudoushinichi1412]

They don't ignore siege armour, sadgr

[@tomassmith2088]

@@kudoushinichi1412 ahhh

[@pdenouter1]

So no +4 attack or squires on the Huskarls. Especially squires would have helped quite a bit here.

[@94peper]

why do huskarls don't have attack upgrades in the video?

[@LeicaFleury]

Interesting test! Sure, huskarls don't have their squires but still, interesting.

[@humanbass]

They will also do great against hussar since they ignore the 2+4 armor and they have 2+3 armor to take the hussar low atk well.

[@ariisee]

Ayo, an archer counter against the cavalry!

[@mb88199]

Do a showmatch with Viper. You each take new civs and 3rd game is mirror game with new Persians.

[@ydk1k253]

the archer graphics looks funny

[@09kaustubh]

Goths get fully upgraded skirms.

[@Supergoon1989]

How do you do that micro?

[@erikquittek2894]

but they had no smithtechs,

[@Longknife]

The problem is this more or less counters Goths, Malians, Eagle Warriors, and to a lesser extent Romans and Vietnamese. -Goths are practically *collecting* hard-counters as if they think it's a valuable title to hold, so nobody really plays Goths for this reason. -Malians can simply mirror any archer compositions and will beat the Armenians at this, and even in Imp, they create an awkward scenario where Armenians COULD theoretically beat Malian Arbs since they lack Bracer, but the moment the Armenians neglect to include enough Composite Bowmen (who are evenly matched vs. Malian Arbs), then the Champskarls flood the fields and overwhelm the Armenians. This doesn't even account for how Farimba cav probably just don't really care and would be happy to run down these units + face off against the Armenian infantry that become generic by Imp. -Vietnamese, much like Malians, are fairly flexible and can beat these + the Armenian's infantry just by focusing on Arb. If we mix in cavalry, lo and behold the Vietnamese are better at that, too. I also don't think being able to trade better-than-usual vs. Imperial Skirmishers is worth it all the same. -Romans are probably affected by this somewhat, but not without options. Tough to say how good this is. -Meso civs with their Eagle Warriors sort of struggle the most with this, especially the Inca who value high-pierce armor Eagles as part of their rock-paper-scissors. Hell, the Inca have phenomenal pierce armor in general by the late game. It sounds less effective vs. Mayans since they have superior archers and HP-based Eagles, and "okay" vs. Aztecs, who have good skirms. Definitely awkward for both Aztecs and Inca though. *Overall,* as impressive as they are at what they do, it feels like this is beneficial towards very few civs, and even amongst those, they tend to have other options. For practical purposes, it mostly seems like a unit to fend off Meso civs, hard-counter Goths (again, because Goths love those), and MAYBE something that demands a bit more thought and planning from Malians-Vietnamese-Romans, but nothing insurmountable.

[@erwinwendler4621]

How does it work vs skirms?

[@arthur-yq4ic]

this will be nerved because you cant even use skirms

[@tomassmith2088]

Mangonels, scorpions, knights, light cav, plus skirms have longer range and are trash unit

[@eoin8274]

I can see them being annoying at low levels where people are more likely to mass unique units and not be super efficient with treb timing etc, no idea when the pros will use them

[@danielortiz7968]

Its a little cheaty this fight, the huskarls don´t have squires or attack on the blackmist, so even if actualy the compose archer can beat huskarls, they dont destroy them so hard like this video seens.

[@pointteaboy7113]

Is it an archer melting huskarl or a huskarl-melting archer?

[@tiancheng8549]

The composite bowman should not get any blacksmith arrow upgrades. That is the only way to balance it

[@GovKidMethod]

Huskarl-melting Archer *

[@Scarface693]

what civ is this unit for?

[@ultimater8700]

They are just GenoeseCrossbowmen but better.

[@teddyhaines6613]

Way worse against elephants, I think.

[@CrnaStrela]

They don't slaughter elephants and I'm quite sure genoese crossbowmen are much better against cavalries.

[@richardbos4696]

Unstoppable

[@DissarayJay]

Great... I barely use the damn huskarl as it is.... Now theres another thing agaisnt it

[@kostadinpantev]

Someone at Microsoft really does not like Goths.

[@jackwaite4035]

The civ needs an archer counter not an archer counter counter, why would you play a castle unit against huskarl when you're an infantry civ? Warrior monks would destroy huskarl

[@skylerkraykovic6581]

crossbows struggle but composite bows ignore armor? lolwut?

[@sharkzun1650]

Why huskarl is mayans, and they don’t have squires

[@forsakenquery]

Whelp that's getting nerfed in Feb patch

[@CoffeeAndBusiness]

They will wreck champions then

[@Cliamp]

FINALLY

[@yesimBata]

So what are goths supposed to do in this match up? Seems even worse than Teutons.

[@CrnaStrela]

Whip up sieges and hope for the best. Actually armenian got no thumb ring, bbc, and siege engineer, they would get flattened by goth bbc but armenian has full monastery tech tree so they can just make monk, research redemption + block printing, and proceed to convert your bbc. It's just not a good matchup for Goths. Edit: actually I think you just use skirms, I forgot goths has bracer. Composite bowmen aren't gonna have a good time against skirms with bracer.

[@viktorianas]

105

[@Bloodark124]

Scorpions take only 1 damage from Composite Bowman, and kills both Composite Bowman and Warrior Priests (infantry). Also Goth's super infantry spam can still outrun Armenians especially if you're vigilant in taking down Armenian castles.

[@Spearced]

@@Bloodark124 agreed, i feel like everyone forgets Goths have heavy scorpion, can actually work super well alongside their infantry in some matchups.

[@kch2.4]

more ignore armour units, more damage the game 😅

[@XDwpnoobImanAdult]

ye but still they get shredded easily cuz of range and bonus damage against archers....this guys are suppossed to be anti pierce armor units but they cant even manage 1 v 1 antiarcher units because of their bonus damage against archers. Its just not cost effective. So it just takes off the piercing armor, but not the bonus damage against them. And lets remember this archer doenst have any bonus damage against any unit except for pikemen, so its useless.

[@injest1928]

Strange then that Britons don't have armour piercing when the British longbowmen were famed for piercing the armour of the French Knights

[@shredmaster2000]

If they did they would be the most broken unit in the game.

[@justincronkright5025]

@@shredmaster2000 200//200 cost!

[@igorgrayie8046]

They didnt pierce the armor of French Knights. They were killing horses and hit weak spots like between plates.

[@injest1928]

​@george43to01 sure if it was added to their current stats without change but I was commenting on the inconsistency in terms of history, not game balance anyway.

[@injest1928]

​@@igorgrayie8046Wrong. The incredible power of longbows was specifically to penetrate armour. They could penetrate chainmail and lower quality iron and steel plate. High quality steel armour from Germany and Italy could only be afforded by the very wealthiest Knights. Those ornate high quality armours you see in museums are from the very wealthiest Lords and Kings.

[@TheBikeOnTheMoon]

I hope that they'll nerf their damage down to 3. This unit is broken.

[@AS.47]

busted

[@rul1175]

Pay to win Civilization.