Archery FAQ: Which Anchor Point in Thumb Draw? by Malta Archery

[@RedmarKerkhof]

"Anchor on your moustache. Because you have a Moustache." Thats's the most Turkish thing I've ever heard.

[@Cogitovision]

There are few things in life you can count on more than your moustache.

[@johnx9318]

@@Cogitovision Fingers? :)

[@jj987987987]

耳听弦口含翎. This is a phrase we have in Chinese traditional archery. The direct translation is "listening to the string and biting the fletchings" What it indicates is when full draw the shaft is roughly next to your mouth, and while in that position the string will be right next to your ear. In the book titled "射艺" described traditional chinese archery have 3 different draw length, short, medium, and long. These 3 draw length is roughly the distance between your mouth and the back of your ear.

[@mRibbons]

Dude. Your channel is amazing. I wish I had discovered it before watching hours of... Other tubers. Thanks from Michigan USA!

[@ArminHirmer]

thank you

[@abdulkabza]

Nice, exclusive video, and thanks for the referral! Just a contribution if I may: The longest arrow shaft in Topkapi Palace Museum's (TPM) collection is reportedly 29''. I am 1,85 m tall and even at my earlobe I reach 29 1/2. So, I think, archers upto 1,80 m could anchor to the earlobe with proper back tension. It is confirmed by my observations. My group members usually do not exceed 28-29'' at their earlobe. Only members who are 1,95 or 2,00 m have a "to the moustache" anchor, at which they reach 30''. However, it's worth to mention that in TPM's collection there are bows that are measured 135 cm. So, not all the Ottoman bows are/were short. They got shorthened after 18th century because sports archery -mainly flight shooting- became prominant. Other than that, there was another type of bow in the Ottoman Empire: Krimean Tatar bow. We know that they were manufactured in Ottoman capital Istanbul. They provided an easy and safely drawn bow for taller archers. After all, the Persian sources say that the "to the moustach" anchor is a referral to the level of the anchor, not to the posterior position. So, the string must be drawn further back. Regards. Murat

[@ArminHirmer]

Thank you for this great information Murat

[@abdulkabza]

***** Pleasure...

[@phoenixmythics]

knowledge is priceless, the only archery channel i subscribed to!!!!! amazing thank you for the knowledge share

[@Nanorisk]

Hello there. I'm a Chinese, and my Ming-style hard-tip bow is about 135cm tip to tip when strung. I'm 170cm tall with a 29 inch draw length. In practice, I draw all the way across my chest, with both hands at about chest height, right hand rests near my right shoulder, right elbow is parallel to the ground and fold to the tightest, left elbow bends slightly. The string will touch my ear and lower left rib cage. Those are effectively my anchor points. I aim by turning and tilting my whole upper body. I have been shooting at 18m with some accuracy, but the bow is too light (20 pounds at 28 inches) and has very low tolerance. I ordered a new Song style bow that is 30#, and it is expected to be delivered in 2 months. When I shoot shorter bows (typically other people's bow) however, I rest my right thumb under my chin and feel the string by the corner of my mouth. That's my 2 cents.

[@ArminHirmer]

thank you

[@freemantam1350]

弦在乳下，箭從唇過，明式小弰弓，小架子，靠弦如 shooting Compound with calibre release.

[@falerymustika167]

This is very helpful, Armin Bey. Thanks a lot. My children and I are learning with thumb-release and horse-bow. I hope I can utilize this tips well

[@bbarror]

Thanks for this video. I'm new to traditional Archery and mounted archery. I'm struggling to find a good anchor point. Thanks for giving me so many options to try.

[@ArminHirmer]

welcome and thanks for watching

[@aleksandrsamodelki]

Thank you Armin,you have a rare gift to teach people! :) I do not speak English, looking at your gestures and facial expressions (a little knowing the words in English) understand what you are talking about! Few people are given to be able to explain! reviewed many of your lessons and reviews, everything is clear, accessible and interesting! Thanks again! I started doing archery recently, unfortunately there are no ray sections near my city, so I have to learn from books and the Internet! Now I'm shooting a classic recursive bow. Soon there will be a traditional Mongolian onions, ordered from the master, we have in Russia, another month it will be done. Your videos are very useful. Well, what else to say about myself, I'm from Russia, not far from the city of Vladivostok (probably heard)!

[@Uncle_Jester]

Knuckle of thumb to/in the top part of the shell of my ear, so it lines up with my eye. No wonky compensation for "level". Where you look it goes. Only tweaks are khatra and string twist. Holding it the Korean way kinda builds that stuff in. Combining it with Slavic for speed on lighter draws is cool too.

[@MrInsaint]

Thank you sir, for the job you are doing for us viewers. I got my anchor point after shooting many arrows(several hundred) for about a week. When I achieved the right continuity/consistency of my shots, with very good collections, my wife took a picture of me with the anchor point and I was happy. The anchor point was not where I thought it was. This has helped me become a better 3D archer and I prefer instinct shooting. It was not easy to stop shooting when my wife took that photo. Because it all went automatically without thinking. Just focus at the target. - Now I also want to learn thumb draw/release :)

[@jareth7456]

I cannot anchor to the corner of my mouth and I use to be a traditionalist, I have to look directly at the target so I use to anchor when my middle finger tugged on my earlobe , this way you are locked on target with both eyes (as it should be) and you get a nice long full draw and this is good for those tending to draw short. Thank you Armin.

[@gesman5000]

I normally anchor with the draw at 3:45. As I don’t have a large wingspan I find that the draw at 3:45 is my favourite and this is normally my most accurate anchor point. Due to having a 26 inch draw length that draw can mean I achieve the advertised power at 28inches.

[@Jazzman-bj9fq]

Wow, this is an awesome vid! I appreciate your knowledge and your generosity in sharing with us :)

[@abeldasilva9368]

Thank you Armin for your very detailed lesson.Just amazing stuff.

[@epone3488]

Revisiting this older video I've become a proponent of the 'traditional ottoman': my reasoning is similar to modern bow-hunting reasoning 'the more reference points for your draw the more accurate the loose and flight". with the traditional-Ottoman using a rising draw and landing at 28" on my 65# horse bow I can readily put the right hand knuckle at the coroner of my mouth the web into the prominence of the chin and with proper technique and a relaxed wrist in-line with the right elbow the releasing thumb clears the jaw well especially with a string twist release. To wit its amazing how similar the back of jaw anchor feels for longer draw lengths and I can successfully use both draw points with repeatability on my modern resin replica bows - swapping from one anchor to the other interchangeably getting more power and distance from the extra draw at the back jaw. In a traditional context Im sure this was very useful on the gallop with target selection and varying angles, distances and target attitudes ( closing vs leaving. lightly armoured vs heavy armoured etc ).

[@Cogitovision]

Thanks for the video. I'm still learning. New thumb ring! My bow seems too short for me, though. After 28" it really stacks and does not want to go farther. I prefer to anchor on the corner of my jaw, and the bow just doesn't want to do it.

[@ArminHirmer]

Yes not all bow are able to draw longer, you might want to get another one

[@johncuthbertson2565]

I like the jaw as well. Feel the feathers move over my cheek. I've ended up with the Korean bows at 53" so at 34" max draw I can pull under that with very little stacking. White feather carbon forever and just got the arsenal from daylite both 53". Both suit me very well. The White feather was only £125 so 😊

[@johnmartin4650]

Those bows are amazing and beautiful….I shoot short risers with ILF limbs…..I’d love to have a go with this style of bow…..thank you for the episodes .

[@Skammee]

Very good presentation . Thank you . I am impressed that you can shoot with different release styles and hit the target consistently .

[@jdhsingi]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge in a professional and clear manner.

[@ArminHirmer]

Thanks for watching

[@spetsnazmelayu2011]

thank you for your video, it was very informative for me learning more about thumb and choosing my anchor point, knowing there's more than one correct way to do it. but so far, thumb draw has been difficult for me. note that i've only started learning archery for a few days but im working on brushing up my skills. i find three finger draw is easy and consistent for me but for thumb draw, it became a different story. sometimes it works, sometimes go above target, sometimes go right, sometimes go above and right. i couldnt figure out yet why. would love to hear from you or any other visitors/archers here as well.

[@ArminHirmer]

thumb daw, esp when you are used to 3 finger is sometimes a bit weird. To the right mostly because you shoot arrow on the right, even you looking and pointing at the target is different from 3 finger. So no worries, simply continue short distance, work on a steady bow hand and a proper anchor point.

[@spetsnazmelayu2011]

ah, i see! thank you very much!

[@Macovic]

Wonderful explanations nut no questions for you. Maybe if western and north european are any different? What about India, Magyar and Mongolian?

[@danidingo977]

For me and maybe for many others is more like an anchor stance than like an anchor point. I think of it like a muscle memory not a point where I need to stop. Even the so-called snapshooters have a "anchor" stance. And this applies to all the repetitive things we do.

[@ArminHirmer]

good point

[@danidingo977]

good stance :)

[@SovereignSt8]

You are a great teacher!

[@ArminHirmer]

thank you very much

[@islamtahir674]

As a beginner archer , this video is helpful, Very nice video.

[@MalayArcher]

Very good video there armin! Keep it up -Hazimin

[@ArminHirmer]

thank you for watching

[@jerrycollins4893]

Great tutorial!...I thoroughly enjoy your videos. I have been curious about Asian archery for years. Currently I have two very nice longbows that I love shooting. I deer hunt here in northern New York with both. After seeing your review of the laminate Goldilocks bow you reviewed from Canyon at Nomad Warriors I have decided to order that bow. I am looking forward to many hours of shooting...The shorter length of the bow will be a great asset hunting from a tree stand. Please know that your efforts are much appreciated by many.

[@ArminHirmer]

Thank you

[@cybitner6159]

I'm only a minute in so I have no complaints about the information but the lighting is already driving me nuts... I feel like any second your going to start telling horror stories 🤣

[@sky9897]

Well, I need 31.5" long arrows nockbottom to shaft end because my olympic style draw is already above 28". Guess I will have to buy spears when horsebowing.

[@bucklenus4071]

Another Great Video For for beginners we are on our way to the thumb Draw. when I use compound bow I only use trigger and draw to the jaw is my anchor point.

[@PaulNaybour]

You briefly mentioned horseback archery anchor point. Could you say a bit more about the anchor point for HBA.

[@ArminHirmer]

Hi. Usually nowadays HBA don't anchor in their face, they use kind of chest anchor. I simply explain anchor points from written sources like arab archery

[@PaulNaybour]

Armin Hirmer, thanks for the reply. yes that what I do when doing HBA, but I feel that my anchor point might be too variable. Some people I should use my face but others a point above my chest.

[@zachariatekawaare4761]

I just discovered this outstanding explanation of anchor points. Bloody brill. as always. Thanks for the knowledge. I realize this was posted in 2016 but as I have just viewed it today (07/19/20200 I hope you are safe and well in this time of COVID

[@ArminHirmer]

Thank you

[@abdulghanysolara4676]

Hi, can you please make a video on korean archery, proper technique (stance, anchor, etc)

[@yaady2366]

Your freaking awesome i love my horse bow now i dont even shoot my compound anymore....

[@ArminHirmer]

I am almost sorry :)

[@yaady2366]

I keep discovering new things every time i shoot. And getting more accurate! I use an anchor near my cheek where the fletch tickles my cheek. If i release properly it goes exactly where i look.

[@datnamethough7950]

This was very helpful, thank you. I tried all of these out and the anchor point feels most comfortable for me at the jawbone. Thing is, my arms are so long that my arrows need to be like 33 inches. In most places you cant even buy arrows that long unfortunately. But at that point it feels like my shoulderblade is kind of 'locked' in place and that makes my arm steadier than the points before that. Does that sound familiar to you or anyone?

[@ArminHirmer]

thanks and yes that can be the experience of the shoulder. great job

[@garychynne1377]

very good. thank yew gare

[@ArminHirmer]

thank you :)

[@TheMrRaguel]

Excellent video as always. Thanks for posting.

[@ardoren5442]

Great video, highly informative and helpful.

[@ArminHirmer]

thanks for watching

[@MantrinDharmananda]

Informative & interesting, thanks for great work!

[@ArminHirmer]

thank you

[@vfc1860]

My thought from some experience is that the Turkish bow was the most efficient horn bow design. Due to this including the shortness of the bow the archer did not need a 30+ draw length. They could shoot more powerful short draw bows and more efficiently shoot greater draw weights. It would seem by example that if the archer could draw 120# max to the chin they could draw 115# to the mouth, 110# to the cheek and 100# to the earlobe. So they would need to have practiced different anchor points according to the draw weight of the bow in relation to their strength. It would be inefficient in the above example to have an archer with 100# draw to the earlobe when they could draw 120# to the chin. If each anchor point produced the same accuracy then the chin was the historical preference if efficiency was the goal. Comments??

[@ArminHirmer]

As Murat mentioned below. They found arrow with 29" and when he pulled (he is tall) he manages 29,5". But on the other side one has to see that overall people grew over the last few hundred years. So maybe now 30" would be fine too. I think they had different anchors related to the purpose of their shooting.

[@vfc1860]

But how then would we explain the English longbow arrow of 32+ inches of the same period?

[@ArminHirmer]

they drew way back to the chest, as their bows were quite inefficient :)

[@vfc1860]

Agreed that they were less efficient but I meant the draw length was 32 inches so people being smaller in the past does not seem to be the issue

[@vfc1860]

Agreed that they were less efficient but I meant the draw length was 32 inches so people being smaller in the past does not seem to be the issue.

[@theezZENtials]

i have no anchor point... i guess my style is similar to the Chinese you mentioned. good content

[@michaelshapiro1543]

LOTS of good information. Thanks!

[@gizmonomono]

I think lower is just more natural. Due to back tention being stronger when you lower the elbows. Whenever I see you shoot I always see that T shape. It just seems like the strongest position you can be in. And, of course, the anchor point reflects that. Or causes it 😁

[@persianarcher905]

Hi.I am a persian please show sassanid realize.or parthian .parthian were professional archers .

[@rwgoodship3653]

I tried the thumb draw once. I’m still waiting for the nail to grow back.🙄

[@jrrns]

VERY.....very.....VERY......BOOOOOOOMMMMMMM.......GOOOOOOOOOOOD

[@ArminHirmer]

thank you for watching

[@TheGreatGodPan]

On a recurve at the moment I try to anchor it to my cheek/jaw at the moment, before I just draw back to the corner of my mouth, now I tend to draw back a bit further and anchor it to my face more, I find I shoot straighter this way and it just feels more stable. The Chinese method looks fun to try though, especially if you're trying to shoot in a more authentic horseback style I guess, I assume the Mongols and nomadic tribes would have shot from horseback more like the Chinese would?

[@davidxjohnson101]

Fantastic video, thank you.

[@putraakun6181]

Thanks

[@jareth7456]

Armin I notice you have a tendency to release as soon as you hit your anchor. I'm wondering what the reason is for this as some folks may develop target panic. I understand the idea of having aimed before drawing the bow and I even understand that some loss of power can occur if held at full draw. I'm just wondering what your reason is.

[@ArminHirmer]

What's the reason to wait? When you reach full draw you can let go :)

[@tomekukowicz3359]

Thank you Master, I will visit you

[@iam-mp1pe]

Thought I'd ask the man himself, but I just got my first bow. A Tartar 55lb draw weight, now what size arrows would you recommend? Thank you & great channel brother. I've been watching video after video haha

[@ArminHirmer]

Depends on your draw length. I would go with bamboo 65# spined or 300spine carbon

[@iam-mp1pe]

Thank you brother much appreciated

[@iam-mp1pe]

Sorry I forgot to mention the draw length, but its 32 inch max draw. The Tartar bow from AF Archery, the same in your video haha. Now if this changes your recommendations for what arrows id really appreciate it if you could let me know please. I mean, you seem to be very experienced. & of course after I ordered that bow I saw your video with the mighty Kheshig & realized that was the one haha. That bow is so nice brother. But anyways thank you & much love & respect

[@owenhurrell268]

The 5 anchor points... Could they not be considered to be a form of face walking?

[@07uki]

Sangat membantu

[@eqlzr2]

I've been watching several videos about Mongolian traditional shooters lately. For some reason, few videos on youtube discuss their style of shooting (arrow on the LEFT side of the bow and using thumb draw). They also seem to draw so that the fletched part of the arrow is pressed up against their cheeks, which I suppose helps keep the arrow tip up against the grip of the bow.

[@ArminHirmer]

I did a video about that a while ago

[@TheMrRaguel]

Thanks for the options.

[@godwill7968]

Sometimes anchor @ lips sometimes @ ear

[@jeromejeronimo9807]

Can I ask you what is this beautiful bow ? (Maker and model)... any review done up yet ? It is such a nice piece !

[@ArminHirmer]

the short turkish? I guess it was one from Akosbow

[@yoravee]

How about fast shooting? Still need to follow our anchor point? I see lot off people half draw for fast shooting

[@ArminHirmer]

Depends, usually not

[@conradjames2745]

Thank you!

[@gizmonomono]

One good anchor point for thumb release is when your finger touches the tip of the arrow. Kinda like a clicker in olympic archery. Just don''t shoot your finger :D

[@ArminHirmer]

of course

[@MSanchez43]

I shoot a Hungarian bow with a thumbring. When I try to anchor anywere close to my face, the arrow always flies "too right". I always have to anchor about 10 cm of the rightside of my face which isn't easy because you can't touch a fix part of "anything"...What could be the reason of the "right deviacion"?

[@ArminHirmer]

mostly a not clear release, sometimes the spine of the arrows, seldom a bit movement of the bowhand

[@MSanchez43]

Tx Armin!

[@MSanchez43]

Could you describe how to perform the correct "clear release" with a thumbring?

[@ArminHirmer]

hm... maybe I will do a video about it

[@MSanchez43]

Tx a lot. Great videos by the way!

[@zainiabdulrahman4631]

Daw🤺🥇🎯

[@bagyi6010]

I like it👍🏹

[@vonclap]

Make sure the string doesn't get behind your ear !

[@ArminHirmer]

Never happened:)

[@robertorios3135]

Can you shoot with a thumb draw while using a right handed bow (as a left-hander))drawing the string with the left)) ?

[@ArminHirmer]

yes

[@Vellikos]

Where on Earth did you even find a 36 inch arrow?! I have trouble even finding 31 inch arrows in the spine I need for my Korean bow.

[@ArminHirmer]

In carbon you can have 32" from many suppliers, like Bearpaw-Products, Nijora Archery in Germany. My 36" bamboo are from Sarmat Archery Ukraine :)

[@robconnect2]

Could you do a video shooting a bow with a shelf? Can a thumb ring be used?

[@ArminHirmer]

of course you can shoot from a shelf with them release, the shelf must be only on the opposite side (right handed archer, shelf on the right side). But it is possible. Or you shoot your right hand bow then let handed

[@robconnect2]

Thank you, I know now why I was having a hard time. I really like all of your videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

[@ArminHirmer]

robconnect2 thank you for watching

[@-YUMYUMm-]

It can but for me,the arrow wil slipped

[@groove00]

nice

[@WV591]

i spend my youth in Malta back in 70's. what an amazing place before the Arabs took over.

[@ArminHirmer]

yes a nice place. but with the arabs, I think it was way before when they took over :) thanks for watching

[@WV591]

Corner of mouth is good anchor for people with long arms. they can reach 28-29 or more and still have full draw. if you have shorter arms, you are forced to use ear otherwise you short drawing which is not a problem but just can't shot as far.

[@ArminHirmer]

yes that is an option. i simply don't like it, as people tend to touch their cheek with the string :)

[@CikguSyaiful507]

Terima kasih tuan🙂..semoga mendapat hidayah

[@odrakhir8033]

I noticed you don't use a thumb ring. What's the max bow poundage you can shoot continuously for an hour with bare thumb? I used to shoot bare thumb, eventually built up enough calluses to do so, but then my thumb started having nerve pain near the joint. Started using a ring after that because every other thumb draw archer told me you shouldn't shoot without a rign. Now I'm wondering if maybe I was just gripping the string wrong, since I never met another archer who shot bare thumb I had no one to teach me how to properly grip the string with the thumb (though I had plenty instruction how to use a thumb ring). Which part of your thumb does the string latch on to? I'd appreciate any advise. I shoot a 50#@31" Korean bow.

[@ArminHirmer]

Hi War Child. Thanks for watching first of all. It depends more how often I shoot and how regularly. Today (after a while not shooting) I used a 40# Turkish bow and after 30 shots or so, my thumb was hurting hahaha. My heaviest bow i shot have 55# with bare thumb.I let the thing sit exactly and aligned in the first groove/joint. of course sometimes it turned into bloody blisters, but hey. I prefer to shoot bare skin. I came to it through the videos of Stephen Selby (Chinese Archery). He shot without and when he explained the thumb ring he said, many use a ring, but one does not have to. Done :D good for me

[@duploman1000]

i've been shooting a 50 pound bow with my bare thumb, and after shooting for a while I can see the appeal of a thumb ring.

[@shadowwright3232]

Does not include anchor points for thumb draw of mongolian saddle bow. Where are the anchor points for this type of bow?

[@ArminHirmer]

never said that I show all, there are too many. How does a the mongolian saddle bow look like?

[@robertorios3135]

Since I am right handed but left eye dominant and I want to shoot with a thumb draw, Which recurve bow(Lt or Rt) would be the correct one to use, (I presently use a left hand one for target shooting) ?

[@ArminHirmer]

when you shoot instinctive with both eyes open, it does not matter

[@robertorios3135]

@@ArminHirmer And if I want to use a sight and close my right eye?

[@saifullee4288]

How do you change anchor point for different distances?

[@ArminHirmer]

Same

[@holoholohaolenokaoi2299]

i bought a 40lb. Bear recurve at a yard sale and quickly realized the danger in incompetence.

[@ArminHirmer]

:D hanks for watching

[@LeonColvet]

So it is okay if my anchor point is the jaw? As thumb draw

[@ArminHirmer]

Sure

[@aliendoggy1]

Do you turn your head almost 90 degrees?

[@ArminHirmer]

Almost yes, do flex training :)

[@aliendoggy1]

​@@ArminHirmer Any good tips for exercises?

[@tyriqcleo5899]

Someone is moaning in the other room. Good effects

[@gerardduplessis761]

where can I purchase a bear paw RS swift black hawk TAKE DOWN RECURVE

[@ArminHirmer]

best I guess directly bearpaw-products.com

[@rctrix9063]

It's my ignorant opinion anchoring is like jogging with crutches.

[@holoholohaolenokaoi2299]

thank you!