What Is The Machine Spirit? And Is It Real? Glorious Discourse On The Omnissiah - Warhammer 40k lore

[@graemerigg4029]

Back in the 80s i was a service engineer for various bits of office equipment. I had a manual that had been written in English, translated into German and then into Japanese and finally back into English. The first paragraph read 'The operator must love his machine, if he does not love it, it will not be faithful to him.'

[@fus132]

"Children of the omnissiah starts playing in the background"

[@mrbigglezworth42]

Well the question is why was it translated so many times in the first place?

[@graemerigg4029]

@@mrbigglezworth42 it was the 80s so no Internet. The machine had been designed in Germany and manufactured by Sanyo in Japan. The manual was first written in English for the UK and US market. The Germans wanted a version which they passed on to Japan who translated it into Japanese but because they didn't have the original manuscript translated it back into English.

[@tekrit3249]

Beautiful

[@RedneckSith]

So the beliefs of the Mechanicus are the result of repeated poor translations to and.from different languages? You know what? That's awesome, absolutely hilarious, and is now my head canon. That's Ork level fuckery right there, and I love it!

[@NoPantsBaby]

Given that whenever my printer is refusing to work and I start loudly talking about getting it scrapped and replaced by a new one it miraculously starts suddenly printing again I am convinced the machine spirit is not only real, it is super real.

[@Alexander_Kale]

My brother kept hitting his Computer whenever it did something particularly dumb. I kept insisting that he was only going to break the damn thing, but he kept doing it, and it kept working, sometimes the physical abuse even seemed to coincide with increased performance and the stopping of the dumb. So yeah. Machine spirits are real. And the one in my Brother's pc was a masochist.

[@maddlarkin]

My first girlfriend took the opposite approach, she named he old machines, spoke gently to them and stroked their cases when they became temperamental on the theory that shouting at it, hitting it and threatening it may get it to work, but it won't like you and will just act up more so, be nice to it and it will be to you... and damn me if it didn't work, saw her coax more than one ancient relic of the early days of computing to life after a quick pep talk and a scritch of its case

[@markcarpenter6020]

Sounds like a friend of mine in Highschool and his car. He was completely convinced his car was alive (and should have died long ago) and was kept going by people having sex in the backseat. And considering the insane stuff that car survived I'm not entirely sure he was wrong. It doesn't help we were never able to identify the model of his car. It was a ford because it had a ford emblem but nothing on the car told the model and we never saw another one like it.

[@Adrian-vd6ji]

read the fine print! "spirit sold separately"

[@Adrian-vd6ji]

ask men of iron what they think about machine spirit, and i know ehat theyll say: "Death to all humans, entering combat mode!!!" ......or some such....for a cold, calculating machine they sure are touchy..

[@Lalle524]

If the machine spirit is acting up, place chicken bones in a metal container, screw container to the appropriate machine, and wait. The machine will accept its blood sacrifice and continue as instructed.

[@YouAreA_Bundleofsticks]

I understood that reference

[@warboss1117]

You would need soft tacos to appease my spirit!

[@Ulvetann]

Heresy! The flesh is weak! You need to interpret the ailings of The Machine Spirit and give ointment where needed. That in itself is a challenging task that can lead to chaos. Recite the correct psalms before removing the sanctified screws with Your Holy Screwdriver, and so on and so forth. Praise the Omnissiah. He will guide Your arm.

[@aaronbosen6743]

Truly the wisdom of tech priest Skippy remains eternal.

[@doomguy9049]

So true!

[@FortuneZer0]

Being a machinist for all my professional live on various pieces I can confirm Machine Spirits are real and must be appeased.

[@kmech3rd]

Sometimes only the parts drawing blood will appease the Machine Spirit.

[@markcarpenter6020]

​@@kmech3rdI could have done without one slicing a tendon in my hand. Had to have surgery to reattach it and that finger has never worked completely right since.

[@Marinealver]

Arch is a Techpriest before he joined the Inquistion.

[@BrokePencil]

Lol! As a former maintenance/HVAC tech, I fully agree. Sometimes only a prayer and a ritual thumping can fix a machine or point me to the broken bits.

[@kmech3rd]

​@@markcarpenter6020 Yeah, that is pretty extreme... worst cuts I've ever gotten were from deburring parts. I winced a bit at your description.

[@BR4IN1N4J4R]

Anyone who is a mechanic knows Machine Spirits exist and can be actual bastards sometimes. When I owned my Mercedes, that car FUCKING HATED ME and would break at the absolute most inopportune times EVER. Idk what the hell made it so cranky, but if I so much as looked at it funny, the alternator wouldn't actually charge the battery. But if I spoke nicely to it, it worked

[@djchappell1726]

The best friendships are also the absolute worst! 😂

[@BR4IN1N4J4R]

I wasn't happier than when I got rid of it

[@artilyon]

Nice, a Mercedes 🙏

[@Bgh583]

I can promise you it happens because you drove it like a donkey and dindt maintain it like the manual states

[@BrokePencil]

Same goes with air conditioners. Sometimes you just have to wait for the pressures of the refrigerant to optimize themselves. Or use thumping rituals, chanting the sacred curse words, as you inwardly pray that the thing begin to work so that you can get home on time. One example: With a blend-style refrigerant you have to wait for each part of the blend to expand due to heat absorption. Sometimes, it takes so long that the inside of the house cools enough to change the profile of the blend (as pressures effect temperatures and vise/versa). And if there's an accumulator, then the pressures will reach a plateau which should be the proper limit, but the low-pressure side still isn't cold, for some reason. This makes getting the proper amount in the system when it is low or after a repair in need of a blood sacrifice. Children are best, but a lamb will do in a pinch. Try to keep the blood away from the electrical components, and the viscera out of the fan blades.

[@josephahner3031]

When I was in the US Army as a tank crewman I encountered tanks that liked certain kinds of weather, machine guns that just didn't want to run correctly no matter how clean you got them. The unit armorer wasn't actually a professional weapon fixer or expert in how the weapons worked, he was just the guy who did the paperwork and had the manuals so to the 18-25 year olds who didn't know better it seemed like these machines had a mind of their own. Soldiers figure out ways to get a weapon running good without quite understanding how they actually work. These ways might be bad for the long term health of the weapons but they seem to work. Ironically, after leaving I learned why that machine gun didn't work and any idiot with a wrench and the correct replacement part could have fixed it and had it running like new. But nobody fixed it, and nobody could write up the report, because nobody knew how the weapon actually worked. Which is why I find the Mechanicus and the concept of machine spirits so fascinating.

[@robertnelson9599]

It’s basically technicians who figured out how to fix stuff with ceremonies rather than pure maintenance.

[@martynsouthgate1551]

Remember it is easier to just blame the equipment than it is to fix it. Most items of kit have at least passed some sort of acceptance process before they were accepted into service. What the designers never believe would happen is that someone would be stupid enough to neglect their masterpiece of engineering. General laziness breaks more stuff than enemy action and it's easier to blame the kit than it is to blame yourself for not carrying out the correct maintenance every 6 months.

[@cousinzeke4888]

Art imitates life.

[@josephahner3031]

@@martynsouthgate1551 in large part because many privates and some NCOs don't really know how to properly perform the preventative maintenance on weapons, instead going off oral tradition/rumormongering that dates back to Vietnam or earlier. Shit that might have worked for M60 machine guns being used on 240Bs, some that's just outright BS, and God only knows what other Army fudd lore.

[@jtjames79]

What I like most about the machine spirit aka the motive force, cuz it can be all of the theories at the same time.

[@nathanielkidd2840]

Every mechanic, machinist, welder, operator, or tradesmen will tell you; machines all want to be treated a certain way. Some like to be cussed at, some want to be babied. Some want a good smack every once in a while. They all already have spirits. Learning which kind is key.

[@r25012501]

Instructions unclear tried with dishwasher at home she now has me on charges

[@feosty5526]

​@@r25012501💀💀💀💀

[@joshuafischer684]

I'm an F-22 mechanic and we all know each jet has a personality. Some of them are ladies and need to be treated as such, and some are common streetwalkers.

[@LetholdusKaspyr]

My favorite theory is that, before Old Night, the use of cybernetic integration in tech was rampant. Then, after everything fell down, the entire concept of human technology is mildly haunted. These spirits are essentially daemons of a minor god called the Omnissiah. The Mechanicus is a legit worship organization more than technicians.

[@monkeymonk666]

Ive always thought it was partially a casr of near universal integration of various levels of AI's and that they simply never went away. That there are AI's built into damn near everything but humanity forgot all about them. One of the reasons they respond differently to stimuli is that we are dealing with a computer program that has possibly been running nonstop for Ten thousand + years with damn near Zero maintenance. These low level AI's trying desperately to fulfill their purpose and help humanity despite the mountain of issues hampering them. And these AI's simple or "Focused" nature somewhat protecting them from corruption.

[@lordfrostwind3151]

Dragon of Mars: *Laughs menacingly in binary*

[@elysiankentarchy1531]

The thing is that no indication of the omnissiah actually existing has been found. The Tau have already developed a minor warp god of the greater good which they found out after using warp engines without a geller field and they have only been relevant for a millennium or two and are a rounding error in the grand scheme of things. Whether that means that the warp power is going to Big E or the Dragon on Mars instead or they just haven't found it yet remains a mystery.

[@Khalith]

In the Genefather book, it clarifies that in imperial knights, the machine spirit is separate from the ancestor data in the machine.

[@alexandercross9081]

The screw turning prayer has to be some variant of "Righty-Tighty Lefty-Loosy."

[@pirig-gal]

Yeah, but it's mangled so badly that it mostly _sounds_ similar, but none of the words are recognizable. Like when people mishear a song and the make up words they think sound correct.

[@alexandercross9081]

@pirig-gal I was thinking more, "Direction to loosen, Direction to tighten." Not literally take those words and mash it into a different language. You know actually useful information for maintenance, just ritualized. Incidently also includes a reason why some screws would have different prayers

[@badf]

Came here to say this, left fulfilled.

[@dakduen7943]

In my mind the words have been mistranslated and misinterpreted to the point of them saying "correct is constricted, remaining is free" instead of "righty tighty, lefty loosy"

[@lloydgush]

​@@dakduen7943yeah. That's a great idea.

[@jonahstover]

I still remember reading about the land raider in the 5e ultramarines codex, which carried on fighting after the crew were all killed. My first introduction to the concept was back then.

[@robertnelson9599]

Ah yes, Rynn’s Might.

[@VioletDeathRei]

Always appease your machine spirit, if your Cogitator is having trouble make sure it's plugged into the proper motivate force outlet when starting your binaric chant.

[@OptimusJedi]

A couple of my favorite examples of machine spirits aside from things like Land Raiders, Knights and Titans are the Thunderfire Cannon in “Legion of the Damned” and Private Hawk’s torpedo silo. The Thunderfire Cannon without its Tech Marine continues fighting and saves the lives of the Captain and his retinue. The Captain pats the cannon and it registers the touch as “not an attack.” 😁 Private Hawk in “Storm of Iron” is tasked with reprogramming the anti ship torpedo silo to fire on a ground target. His vox cuts out right as the Tech Priest is telling him he must speak the final incantation to complete the task. Hawk panics not knowing what to do and with an Iron Warrior after him until he realizes what the final incantation is: “Fire.”

[@robertnelson9599]

Storm of Iron was a great book. Also, Hawke was yelling at the missile to fire when it activated, which was really funny to me.

[@Lord_Wolfsadler]

Machine Spirits definitely exist - they have their own personalities. I could talk for hours about how one Boxmaker at work absolutely hates me and refuses to work for me while I have friendly relationships with several other machines

[@nanovox9418]

Agreed

[@merendell]

Oh, even IRL inert machine spirits exist and need appeasement at times. I can't count how many access panels denied me access until I applied the correct sacred unguents (WD40), uttered a little prayer (that would make a sailor blush), and sometimes a whole ritual involving the sacred flame (acetylene torch) and rhythmic drumbeats (percussive maintenance). Get the right combo and even the most ornery machine spirit will grant access.

[@thunderchild1897]

One of my favorite rites is "The Persuasion of Motion" 1. Withdraw from the misguided mechanism. 2. Return to your Tech-Shrine (Toolbox). 3. Retrieve the Persuader a blessed artifact that is powerful and stern, but yet soft and caring (dead blow mallet). 4. Present the blessed Persuader to the misguided mechanism. 5. Once last attempt to induce the desired motion before calling on the Persuader's aid. Often the mere presence of a Persuader is enough for the less stubborn mechanisms. 6. With the Persuader's aid and a choice of litanies (beating the piss out of it, while cursing the whole while) guide the mechanism back to function.

[@sdoo-ou2ni]

I think uncooperative IRL inert machine spirits are just well masochistic

[@yokaiou5848]

Also pigs require a lot of water. So its water wasting. In my ship we had 4 generators 3 that worked and one that didn't. It got to the point the Japanese brought a Shinto Priest to purify it. From what I heard, someone commited suicide near it and hasn't been working since then.

[@pirig-gal]

I don't know if pigs require much more water than cattle. I am pretty sure the reason for that taboo was because of parasites.

[@project9701]

On the encrusting layers with computers... Pre-Crow Flu, a friend of mine worked for a computer service company. They went out to various job sites, fixed computers on site, did IT work for people. It was for companies that needed an IT staff, but couldn't afford a full-time IT staff. Anyways, he and the guy that was training him went to one stop, which was a taxi company. (EVERYBODY smokes at a taxi company. Even indoors. Even if it's against the law.) And it was their "annual repair." Said "annual repair" involved- 1-Taking the old (nicotine-encrusted) desktop to the back room. 2-Taking the new desktop out of the box. 3-Transfering all the of the necessary files to the new desktop. 4-Hooking up the new desktop. 5-Putting the old desktop in a double-wrapped trash bag with several sprays of Lysol (TM). 6-"Decommissioning" the old desktop by throwing it in the dumpster behind the main office. My friend was worried about this, so he offered to take out the HD and at least render the old desktop non-functional. According to him, he wore double-layered latex gloves and a facemask, and he could barely stand just OPENING the thing up. It was CAKED with a visible layer of brownish...goo...that resisted any cleaning efforts short of a putty knife. He was convinced that he was getting a contact-high just from the dust alone. So I can believe the story about the layers of coolant...and I hope that you could have at least pulled some of the fans and installed new ones at least...

[@robertnelson9599]

From Arch’s story, it sounds like the coolant goo covered a lot more than just the fans.

[@inquisitorwalmarius6650]

ive noticed a thick build up of grease and hydrualic fluids in our 20 year old machines. have taken to reducing it to keep the machine spirit happy and working. old grease that have become grainy and dry doesnt lubricate properly and it irks the machine when it tries to relubricate the areas and the old dried up grease just stops the flow. Venerate the Ancient machine spirit, for its service is far from over.

[@inquisitorwalmarius6650]

@@robertnelson9599 seen that a lot too. every fan around the spindles are caked with dried oils and dust that are in the air. takes a lot of time to get clean, even with harsh cleaning products. so we opt to first do something if theres a issue, otherwise a whole workday is gone just from cleaning a few parts ^^'

[@colinscutt5104]

Bloody luxury ...... when i was a lad . . .

[@project9701]

@@robertnelson9599Yea, but in those circumstances you replace and repair what you can. That way, fewer possible things can go wrong.

[@Runeinc]

So coding an algorithm in 40K would be like a monk writting out a holy text with illumination to stop it being forgotten or lost? Would make sense for the Tech-Monks.

[@Speleomimus]

You're correct in spirit. But the AdMech would find a way to make that simple explanation exponentially more complicated and confusing

[@melfice999]

Unironically how Mechanicus became the Faith of Mars. Make Mantra how to maintain machines needed to not die and have water. Turn it into religion in the Xth generation so the people won't forget.

[@Sujad]

I work in IT. You would be amazed at the amount of times counting backwards from 10 will get a computer to do what you want.

[@ancientgearsynchro]

Year 1 programmer (1 language learned) :Eveything is logical and if I can see the code then I know EXACTALLY what is going on year 10+ programmer (9 languages "learned"): The sado-masochistic ghost in my machine only scarcely whispers its vital secrets after enough curses and smacks to the side of the case.

[@PhilosophicallyAmerican]

Is that why the webpage I working on was behaving so badly today?

[@AZ240992]

One of the funniest things about this is imagining a human trying to explain their technology to a Tau.

[@tba113]

Even funnier is when the Tau sees the Human tech in action - and actually demonstrating the weird quirks the Human described.

[@cousinzeke4888]

Why explain how our weapons work when we could just demonstrate it?

[@tommenno]

@@cousinzeke4888 because it's more fun when they know what's coming.

[@prestonjones1653]

I'm pretty sure there is a book where this did happen. A tau was asking how the Imperium's Warp drives worked and nobody had any idea, they just had the tech priest pray at it and smother it in blessed oil and it started working.

[@roberthunter5655]

Do machine spirits mean tanks have bigger souls than tau?

[@jhetttiernan2623]

If you don’t want your machine spirit to intentionally screw you, treat it like any other thing that can decide wether you live or die; respectfully and with a fair degree of fear

[@kmech3rd]

I'm a CNC machinist- can testify that the Machine Spirit in a machine tool exists, and is female. If you ever hurt the machine, by means of a crash or pushing her too hard, she will remember. You can perform every ritual of atonement, every alignment, but when you need her to help you... she'll always remember who hurt her.

[@maddlarkin]

I saw a absolutely awesome theory laided out in a videos comments in the form of an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor questioning a High level Tech preist about why lasguns, of the same pattern made in the same factory on the same Forgeoworld, to the same specifications function differnetly when handed to different regiments of Imperial Guard and it boiled down to because of the function of belief with the warp the weapons machine spirits of the weapons were attempting to match the expectations of the troops using them. So troops from a high tech world, who had been taught the principles of the weapons operations had weapons firing bolts of energised plasma, while troopers from a low tech world who had previously been armed with slug throwers found the lasbolts functioning similarly to their old weapons but more powerful and still again you had troopers firing them as laser beam weapons as thats what they expected to find. The machine sprit would always try and match the expectation of its users to please them.

[@PhilosophicallyAmerican]

That sounds a little too Orky to attribute to Guardsmen.

[@maddlarkin]

I'm not explaining it great, I wish I'd screen shotted the story as it was really well done. Think of it more as tieing into the idea that machine spirits are embedded code fragments from the AI's that were in everything during the Dark Age of Technology and even mundance STC devices are far more advanced than is generally realised, the intelligence of the AI is gone but elements of its code such as a desire to please its operator remain, so it's not so much the human belief driving function like an ork, but the weapons machine spirits picking up the users expectations via the warp and adjusting its function to match the expectations of those users.

[@Tobbs96]

As an IT student, I very much believe in the machine spirit. A stick of incense, some verbal threats and/or pleas, and a good holy kick tend to work about half as often as actual troubleshooting.

[@inquisitorwalmarius6650]

my pc are so old it got issues every time a update hits. it may take btween 5 to 15 forceed power cuts before it realises its still alive, throws it bios in anger over the hard handling of its delicate power button. asks if i should load the backup bios then requires a forced turn off and then it works like before again. Its machine spirit got quite the temperament and needs to be handled properly every time, or it says no.

[@Tobbs96]

@@inquisitorwalmarius6650 My professor and I were once baffled at a piece or code I had that refused to work even though the professor could confirm there was nothing wrong with it. In desperation, I just makrked that bit of code, hit Ctrl + X to cut it out and Ctrl + V to paste it back it at the exact same place. The code now worked.

[@inquisitorwalmarius6650]

@@Tobbs96 reminds me of a program I made for the tx8 system. It doesnt understand a space in the coding. I tried to make it read through it before putting in tools. And it kept stopping at a line with visible issue at all. Went back to the pc to look through the program on a faster machine, found a single space between the feed and the x movements that wasnt visible at the tx8 unit screen at all due to it being so old. Removed the space in free programming mode and it ran the entire program through without issue. Machines are tricky some times.

[@deneios1905]

Righty tighty lefty loosey can be considered as a prayer to the machine and also reminds how to do it. Screws also come loose easier if you anoint them with holy oils.

[@Southerly93]

I like the idea of imperial machines being programmed from the ground up in binaric prayer. Instead of a regular line of logic like "if X is true then Y" it's "if holy litany value is X then right of Y is to be performed. Blessed be the omnissiah"

[@grantharriman284]

About the computer covered in coolant; oils are generally non-conductive. You can freely immerse computer parts in non-conductive oils and they will operate just fine. So long as you keep the water based things away you can slather all the sacred oils you want on your electronics and it will be electrically fine. There is some risk of other interactions causing problems, such as any spark igniting your coolant, so I certainly wouldn't recommend doing it without reason, but while oil and electronics may not mix well with water they get along just fine with each other under ordinary circumstances.

[@wymanrtaylor]

I just read “Devastation of Baal”; in one of the sections with the Knights of Blood and Flesh Tearers, there’s a passage which states the Marines had to chain their tanks in place to prevent the Machine Spirits from taking off and heading straight into the Tyranids. So, another point for the idea that they’re actually spirits with some kind of Will

[@sadwingsraging3044]

Arch: I don't believe in Machine Spirits. Me: You just haven't bought the right car yet.🤨

[@sadwingsraging3044]

@bconneau658 Friend in high school had a Chevy Vega given to him. About 1 in ten times if you tried to start the car when the sun was going down and had turned orange the bloody thing refused to start. If you turned the key before the sun set or after it had gone below the horizon nary a problem. Not one time in the three years he had it did it refuse to start at any other time of the day or night but if that sun was low in the sky and had turned color you had best just wait till the blazing ball in the sky had dropped well below the horizon before trying to start it. 1 in 10 was about the chances. Not often enough to take it to a witch doctor and have him dance around it in a grass skirt shaking wrenches at it but often enough to know that the machine spirit in that car made you wince when you turned the key it in the ignition just about dark time.😕

[@pwrserge83]

I've seen a laser measurement sensor filled with CNC coolant and work just fine. Measuring dimensions to single micron accuracy and sub-micron precision to be exact. It's amazing what sort of abuse modern systems can endure.

[@slowrolltom1253]

we need art of Arch praying to the CnC Machine Spirit

[@shadowwalker2319]

I believe that machine spirits are likely real in 40k and somewhat irl, they just often act out if not given enough attention. How many times have you been working on something that is refusing to work, but as soon as you bring someone else to either look at it or try to fix it the thing miraculously decides to work.

[@inquisitorwalmarius6650]

this, this is a thing ive experienced a lot at work. we are 2 that tries to get the thing to work. then boss comes by, asks what is wrong. then he does the exact same steps as we did and it just works...

[@thunderchild1897]

Yes, loading machine where I worked liked toothpicks. Not sure why, we just knew don't disturb the toothpick and replace if lost. 3 times I remember that machine acting up when left with a new guy unsupervised. Nobody even came over to look, just would yell over "You didn't put the toothpick back, did ya?" I firmly believe The Mechanicus's traditions are things like this ratcheted up over millennia.

[@ironheadedDoF]

Muttering a incantation while opening a maintanence panel, one screw at a time: "Lefty loosey, Righty Tighty" "Lefty loosey, Righty Tighty" "Lefty loosey, Righty Tighty"

[@austindow9850]

Rynn's Might was a Crimson Fists Venerable Land Raider that, when it's crew had been killed, went on a rampage against the Orks that had invaded Rynn's World. When it's guns were empty and it's lascannons were drained, it started running over Orks. When it's tracks were jammed with crushed orks, it opened it's doors to lure in Orks and then it set off it's reactor. After the invasion, the Crimson Fists recovered the vehicle and are looking to repair it. Alternatively, they should see about getting a Titan to put it's machine spirit in.

[@robrib2682]

that sounds like a wonderful excuse to have an imperial knight close to melee with gargants because it just hates them that much thank you for the image of an imperial titan with a red powerfist physically choking a gargant that I got while reading that xD

[@elysiankentarchy1531]

There was also the Black Templar land raider who went off to kill the enemy while the Templars were in prayer. The Templars were deeply amused.

[@inquisitorwalmarius6650]

@@elysiankentarchy1531 Yeah its Zeal was beyond wanting to wait. the machine spirits often comes to resemble the users in many regards.

[@sdoo-ou2ni]

I always found that story hilarious the idea

[@captainteutonica5474]

Being a cnc machine operator I can say, without a doubt that; my 16 year old machine has a machine spirit.

[@kmech3rd]

Toll the Great Bell Once! Slow the rapids. Toll the Great Bell Twice! Engage Single Block and Optional Stop! Toll the Great Bell Thrice! Press Cycle Smash and Pray to The Omnissiah for Guidance for the Programmer. - The Litany of the Set Up Man

[@captainteutonica5474]

You forgot to intone the sacred canticle of awakening, while flipping the switch to reveal the power rune, when first awakening the blessed machine from its slumber. Failure to do this can cause the machine to act rebellious throughout the day. Much like denying it's operator coffee can do for the human element.

[@infinity1ink842]

In the book BaneBlade the machine spirit of the baneblade LITERALLY chooses its crew. It even communicates through a tech priest and thanks a man for running out and driving a salamander to safety. it chose a feudal worlder as its loader for some reason. (for the algorithm argument they do feed a long list of the tank crew members into the baneblades "brain". So it might have certain preset criteria for choosing its crew programmed into it.)

[@strongback6550]

I would like to play a 40k campaign exploring this concept with Tech Priest who has Forbidden Lore: Archeotech, allowing him to actually do a lot more by talking to machines than the average tech priest. Just imagine it. A tech priest who tells the machines to do things they're not designed to do in order to achieve a result that they're still capable of getting, provided you know what you are doing. Others just watch in awe as they see these machine spirits going out of their way to accommodate him. Until he causes a catastrophic failure.

[@superpepleen]

iirc there's an alternate career rank in the lathe-worlds book called the acutor mech-assassin or something similar who can do just that, set systems to operate add pre-set times, malfunction in specific ways, etc. (also the better MIUs straight up gives a bonus to talking with machine spirits)

[@onieyoh9478]

LOL. Imagine how mad the demon is that got stuck possessing a nail.

[@casbrin9373]

If the tech priests forget to bless one key bolt, but bless the rest, in the midst of battle it can turn to chaos out of spite for its importance being ignored. After all, we know chaos can work on inanimate objects...

[@dikkie1000]

That's why crown nuts and locktite were invented. Then it might turn to chaos, but it won't turn. And you need the "if it's liquid it can't be stuck" way of getting it loose.

[@garywells217]

My favorite is when a machine spirit acts up the priest says the rites and kicks it. Then it works

[@prestonjones1653]

Random Inquisitor: Magos, are you SURE this isn't a Slaaneshi demon engine? Machine in question: KICK ME HARDER, DADDY! Techpriest: Reasonably.

[@TheCrzedmortal]

As someone that works on machines for a living , yes machine spirits are real , every machine has a mind of its own and like to be treated differnetly

[@kmech3rd]

CNC machinist... you speak the truth. Never anger the Machine Spirit with inept programming or irresponsible operation. It ends poorly.

[@Huvy_Huevy]

I really love these speculative lore videos, the idea their prayers are actually them unknowingly running diagnostic commands was something i never thought about!

[@barryward2128]

Machine spirit is most definitely a thing irl. On that note, I've always figured everything had a machine spirit, but only the big important machines spirits get a life of their own, so to speak. Land raiders and titans for example.

[@robertstudley297]

Don't forget how the more complex machine spirits literally have human brains plugged in and some older lore suggests that the titans use animal 'materials' as well. And I noticed the thallax at the end there. As a ordo reductor player could you cover a video on our nomadic life and how we bring the blessed ruin to the enemies of the Omnissiah?

[@markblakey3456]

Once had a 2cycle lawnmower that would only start when i filled it up with sacred promethium mixed with blessed unguents. And i performed a vigorus stamping dance on top of the main body of the mower. Amd of course uttered sacred words of the 4 letter varieties. 😅😅

[@dejalmer]

i think the whole ritual song and dance atound them is to essentially get people to use them with care. Anyone knows working with anything mechanical its better to do what you need to do very deliberately. Even taking a panel off is easier if you stop to take your time with it. Im reminded of an example from the novel Hellsreach where the comscripted dock workers were given a tempestus scion to lead them into battle. One of the dock workers was struggling to reload their autogun in a fire fight. The scion told the worker to say a prayer for the guns machine spirit.So the panicked dockworker slowed down the reloading of his gun and said please to it. I think that the act of the panicked basically untrained conscript slowing down to reload his gun is what caused him to reload it correctly.

[@claytoncarter9467]

Another possibility about the algorithmic programming idea, on top of using barely understood STC patterns for most advanced systems, the binary prayers actually being program commands, adaptive algorithms changing over time to favor certain actions or enemies over others, and the fact that every human in existence praying to these machines might actually be making just a little sentient, you also have servitor tech entering the mix. Sometimes the Mechanicus doesn’t quite know how to build the cogitator they need to run a certain piece of tech, but they do know how to chop some guy’s head off, hammer and screw a bunch of neural links, microchips, armor plating, cooling systems, preservatives and life support systems into his skull, literally program the guy, brainwashing style into being able to run the machine, and then jam him into the device to act as a living servitor motherboard. Now you have a half alive person in the machine, which is also interacting with all the STC and warp stuff mentioned earlier. All Mechanicus, and by extension all imperial systems being some incalculably complex and jumbled mix of ancient programs, self improving algorithms, binary commands misinterpreted as holy dogma, the warp itself breathing a little life into certain machines, and actual human consciousnesses being jury rigged into tech. That entire clusterfuck being what the imperium uses for computers seems… just so on brand for 40k I love that idea.

[@shinimekekemee5828]

with the tiny emperium wide tech (hammers, light switches etc) i like to think that when someone repairs/does routine maintenance on it that sacrifice of time and effort is what a small machine spirit considers worship (which is just the cutest thing tbh)

[@oliverb.9121]

Beware the corrupted inert machine spirit! You'll have things like a chaos screw, a little wormy thing with a proprietary torx head :D

[@MrKingkz]

The way my laptop dose what it wants i believe in the machine spirit

[@AudreyBelrose-kz5lw]

My pc is right there with it, one curse in anger, and it goes haywire

[@RDMARTIN18]

It is always entertaining to hear Archs Little real-life stories. 10/10

[@kongilian]

There's tales of planes in WW2 making near perfect landings back at base even though the crew and pilots bailed out.

[@Fulgrim2]

For me personally I also took the “machine spirits” to be as close as to AI as you could get without violating that treaty they did with the Emperor back in the day. As for times they do amazing things? We do have the Warp and all of the tech-priests praying and their rituals.

[@catsareevil101]

Easily the best discussion on this topic I have found. Fascinating all the possibilities with this topic alone.

[@DogsRSweet]

So, the thing is, I get the Inert Machine Spirit thing. I was unscrewing a bolt and insulted it because it was rusted and hard to break and rotate. This was like, my 30th bolt because I was breaking down large spoils and was annoyed at the effort. That dang thing got stuck, in some way that shouldn't be possible. I spent nearly 5 minutes getting that fricker out of his hole. Five. Minutes. It got to the point I was literally lifting the spool off the ground, with the only thing connecting it that dang bolt. It might not be intelligent, but dang was it stubborn. Never underestimate the Inert and lesser machine spirits. A single one of the being difficult can end even the mightiest of the Emperor's Sons.

[@IRMentat]

Behold COMPONENT, hard working and untouched for hundreds of years. Say hello (observe the mechanism, pick the right procedure), apply sacred oils (apply wd40), say the sacred prayer (let the de-greaser do its work), perform sacred works (place removed item into sacred bath of anti-corrosive, pull red chip with 3 gold symbols) blow gently on “teeth” of chip, replace while muttering equivalent of “reset system, diagnose fault, reconnect to attached device port”, wrap sacred bolts in purity cloth (dry and air), reset maintenance panel, pray for the hood health of each returned bolt (inspect and replace faulty fixings), apply sacred ungents (locktite), replace screws, light blessed incense (wait to make sure nothing explodes or goes poof), bow and proceed to next task knowing the “machine spirit” has been duly appeased. Maintenance task 4566986 of 999999999999 completed for current cycle.

[@moogiibat5845]

In my knowledge, in Tengrist beliefs an object can have spirit an souls, but the amount of it depends on how much importance, labor and dedication were spent on it to create and maintain it by the owners or an group of people. By making it, owning it and using it or worshiping it, parts of your own souls will remain in it even after your death, since you are spending your own precious life energy on it. The sprit of the object can also have personality, agency of the current and the previous owners, and even consciousness. I wonder if there other belief that has a same belief?

[@joshuafischer684]

Back in the 1960s, there was a discussion about nuclear waste and how to properly mark it for posterity. Symbols tend to transform in meaning, and there was a very real concern that in the event of a post-nuclear war civilization, the hazard symbols used to mark radiation-contaminated areas would take on a different meaning. There was a proposal to create a "nuclear priesthood" that would ideally keep the knowledge of radiation hazards alive and prevent some foolish post-apocalyptic tribesmen from accidentally opening hazardous waste.

[@jamessalamone5167]

As a career helicopter mechanic, the secret ingredient to all maintenance is precisely 1 nicked finger worth of human blood.

[@himmelblau2126]

just imagine this: the ritual contains of several thousand steps. some to screw together things and so on. at some point it refers to an old artifact and a combination of numbers to put into it and a prayer to then utter I to the artifact: tech priest takes out Nokia 3310, last charged 35k years ago but still at 87% charge. dials in the phone number of dell customer service and the prayer goes like "yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, as soon as possible" and then you have to wait and pray for 3-7 days while Michael from tech support travels to your destination and installs the firmware.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

This is one of the aspects of 40k lore I hope GW never tries to concretely answer. It’s best when its nebulous and could be spirits, faith, or AI but never wholly one of them.

[@manchannel7003]

There are various libraries used by non Mechanicus types for appeasing machine spirits as I recall.

[@lordvarrax5060]

“Real?! Real!!?!? Next you’ll be asking if my cog-axe is real... iS tHe MaChInE sPiRiT rEaL... I thought better of you, fleshling!” - An incredulous Tech Priest upon being asked this question, probably

[@jesusisherelookbusy]

“Sitting on an old 3.5 inch floppy.” Me too Arch. Me too…

[@DefaultFlame]

My personal take is that most of the time when the "machine spirit" of say a land raider moves and fights on it's own it is simply an algorithm, however, I think that the sheer amount of belief the priests of Mars and the Imperium place in even the inert machine spirits as you call them likely gives them the tiniest spark of existence through the power of the warp. Something like the mechanism, the screw, the piston, etc, working just the tiniest bit better when appeased properly. The threads of the screw move just the slightest bit smoother when being unscrewed, the focusing lens of the lasgun lasts just a few shots more than can be expected, the engine can take just a little bit more gunk in it before it seizes up, etc, and that this tiny effect is increased the more complex and venerated the mechanism is. Like a land raider that recieves meticulous maintenance rituals and activation prayers might fight just a little bit better than one where mechanically it is just as well maintained but it recieves the bare minimum of prayer and sacred ungents.

[@zsdunn88]

I like to imagine that when the Mechanicus is holding their prayers, they’re reading instruction manuals in the form of Gregorian prayer chants. And the inclusion of incense and unguents are notes that may or may not be scrawled in the margins

[@vaunkillion262]

When I was working in a infrastructure electronics manufacturing company we would run testing on the units as we built them, and on some occasions our testing equipment would have arguments with test fixtures in the middle of a run of like 40 boards and nothing had changed but now the test fixture and their stations were no longer talking to each other and you just had to swap fixtures and then everything works fine. Prayers to the omnissiah work well too.

[@matijarasovic4627]

With how prevalent neural networks are these days. I feel like MIUs are pretty feaseble at some point in the future where the weapon system has a pre installed neural networks that keep on learing with the user itself.

[@DragonfameDracas]

**You statements have been noticed** *Please note that any difficulties in the coming days are purely due to grumpy machine spirits and not due to irate Tech Priest upset over you questioning of doctrine.* *Enjoy your day. This is not optional*

[@doorknockerpingu6932]

My headcannon is they are Electronic intelligence rather than an AI not smart enough to make decisions but smart enough to operate in their tasks. Knight machine spirits are collection of memories attached to this engine which enhances the function. Titan machine spirits are borderline AI with operating decision making and a will of its own.

[@inquisitorwalmarius6650]

the bigger the titan the stronger the machine spirit, itcan actively fight against the princept that pilots it for control and even absorb the spirit of the piloting individuals if their mental strenght gets too weak. many a princep have died and become one with the machine over time. for the next princep to find remainders of their wishes, feelings and thoughts interwowen with the machine spirit. the big one from hellsreach is one of em. and another story describing it is one of the early heresy books on mars.

[@TiroDvD]

"When usual techniques for revivifying plants do not work try the traditional formula: 1 part water, 2 parts sunshine, 3 parts prayer." --Gilligan's Isle.

[@spugggaldon361]

I can tell you now. The inert machine spirit exists and if you worked maintenance on something like a military helicopter you'd know. Just removing a panel can become an existential crisis of you talking to the fucking quad wing screw nicely to just allow you to loosen it.

[@coldshoulder8550]

I like the idea of machine spirits being told what to do and that would explain why scrap code is often broadcasted viea audio by the Dark mechanicus and chaos forces.

[@zielisawzielony9366]

But Arch my dear boy, it was determined that offering proper Psalm of Swift Rearmament increases rate of fire by 0.00042% and thus constitute enforcment by force.

[@Norbert_Sattler]

Machine Spirits getting uppety and working again, from seeminly nothing but attention is less farfetched than it seems. I am in the IT department of my workplace. I have lost count of how often it occured that a colleague had a problem. I go over there, the colleague repeats what produced the error click for click and suddenly it worked again, despite me doing nothing but stand there. I can easily see, how experiencing that often might make someone develop mechanicus-like superstitions. Of course then there are also rather logical cases like: "When did you last restart the computer" and they aren't sure, but sometime 2 month ago... or "What did the error message say?" -> "I don't know, I immediately clicked it away"... *sigh*

[@Dr.LightMarker5613]

I had an airsoft tar 21 way back that had a hell of a personality. I loved the thing, was super excited to buy it from a friend, and it knew. It never failed me, never broke, hell it even ran with what i thought was a dead battery! However, it HATED anyone but me. My buddy tried to use it, 5 minutes in when he tried to shoot, the buttplate fell off, battery flopped out, and the mag fell out.😂 he just looked at me and said "take this thing back and trade me your gun!" Lol it worked perfectly fine for me the rest of the game!

[@roberthill5549]

If the warp is able to change, disrupt or corrupt things (Chaos), perhaps it can be countered by order. Order can be belief in the constant, rituals, clarity. Perhaps the prayers and "appeasement" simply negate or reverse the influence of Chaos on these machines. Perhaps Chaos tends to make these machines seem to have a mind of their own, but Order helps to turn it away from destructive entropy towards mankind into being beneficial towards them, or at least not murderous. But you'd have to believe that the order of the human mind could have some influence over the entropy of Chaos for that to be feasible.

[@Self-replicating_whatnot]

I guess the "temperament" of machine spirit can be just that - bias tables. That'd also make sense why the older the piece of hardware is the more personality it has.

[@DouglasMeloche]

found your channel through Skaven Lore, and love the personality and unique characteristics of your voicework

[@DocWolph]

"The [Machine Spirit] knows where it is, because it knows where it is not."

[@KiithnarasAshaa]

My personal theory is that Machine Spirits are little more than daemons, not of chaos, conjured into being and given purpose and rules by the faith, rites, and rituals of the Mechanicus. If left to their own devices, without attention or 'maintenance', they will eventually go to 'sleep'.

[@thehockie85]

I've been driving a Truck Over the Road for 11 years and I absolutely believe that Semis have a Machine Spirit

[@Evan-lr8nq]

I can picture it. "Oh Righty Tighty!! Oh Lefty Loosie!"

[@michaelkimberling7307]

A sacred Unguent for circuitry would probably be sanctified (high purity) alcohol. Its what I used to clean the circuit boards inside my 3-d printer when it got resin all over it. And then you do your prayer because you have to let it dry off because it’ll catch fire if it’s not dry when you introduce electricity to it.

[@WombatDave]

I believe you meant to say, "When you introduce the motive force"

[@michaelkimberling7307]

@@WombatDave either way the machine spirit shows it’s displeasure with holy fire when your prayers are not sufficiently long enough. Lol

[@WombatDave]

@@michaelkimberling7307 Yes it does.

[@Leo-iq9or]

i have very limited knowledge on this, but i always thought that the machine spirit was a pseudo psychic imprint on individual parts that instead of being emotion and thought was a weaker expression of binary thought imprinting and when all the parts are together they create a gestalt like entity that interacts with the machine cults overall will( was it called the noosphere or something ? ). ie technomancy or tehnopsykers, but as demons are born of emotion and thought there not truly compatible with demons so they can be possessed if complicated enough to form a mental state or have there inanimate body possessed and the demon suppresses the machine spirit as its too weak to repel the possession. i think this cover most bases and in story telling would be flexible enough to fit most explanations?

[@taurianurbie453]

So what I've gathered from this is that the Mechanicus has used this to make routine into ritual. A good example is the Rites of Reloading; the guardsman who needs to reload his lasgun in the heat of battle won't invoke these rites, unless he follows the Machine Cult, because for him it's simple routine. While the Techpreist who maintains these lasguns will go through the rites as a ritual, because the Cult Mechanicus demands it, they follow the routine, but they've made it into ritual.

[@Animefan1803]

I can imagine a dark age of tech Engineer coming back via warp shenanigans and going:"Huh really shouldn´t have used the catchphrase "i´m appeasing the machine spirit" everytime i interacted with the AI systems..."

[@brokedude9999]

A Demon Engine vs Machine Spirit has some interesting qwerks!!!! As Arch opened the door here. Binary code is logical execution commands of electronic signals. Demons are Illogical "chaotic" creatures of remnant emotional energy. When a Demon is forced into a machine, it has no sense of logic. So, it can't input the logic codes to enable the electrical signals properly. So, it begins to infuse the Machine with warp energies, and mutations of the physical components, into something that it can control. Often Demon Engines have Flesh growths etc on it. Inthink Arch is onto something

[@Erebusdidnothingwrongish]

2nd::: That was the best explanation I have heard. I think you are right. I can't say why it just feels right.

[@z3122]

As the head maintenance monkey for 40 year old equipment at my job i can assure y'all that machine spirits are real.

[@pirig-gal]

Idea: the basic machine spirits (at least some of them) are the AI that survived the _unnatural_ selection of the Mechanical Revolt. They were not murderous, they were limited in their self-modifying, and they just wanted to do a good job, so they were left alone. The Mechanicus has since long forgotten that machine spirits were AI and thay don't fit in the cogboys' definition of an AI, so they continue as usual.

[@gweetus]

"Turn it off, then on again. Amen"

[@shan4697]

As a maintenance crew in the army, there’s this machine spirit is kinda an ass, would always malfunction when we standardized it unless we give it flowers and tell how good it looks today, suddenly it’s chances of success is higher, no idea why or how but it works

[@kb9oak749]

Automobiles have machine spirits. Christine was a documentary.

[@markcarpenter6020]

A friend of mine in HS believed his car only kept running as long as people had sex in the back seat regularly. Ironically the car kept running until he broke up with his GF then it threw a rod.

[@duckman12569]

This was one of the more fascinating dives into the lore theory as of late. Well done Arch.

[@Pestilencemage]

...as a construction worker, I can assure you that you must pay proper homage to the materials or incur the wrath of their machine spirit. Sacred oils must be applied to the ridged metal conduit as part of the threading process, and yet another to drill through tough metals, especially to tap them. ...but surely an RPG player like yourself prays to RNGesus.

[@Pestilencemage]

You can drop tiny screws and swear and take the omnisiah's name in vain... or you could have sang the prayers and the screw would not have lept down.

[@kronos661]

31:30 depending on how canonical one finds the old ffg books techpriests can unjam firearms of any complexity with a prayer. Its an AoE.

[@orisaacs]

You can explain machine spirit in the religious idea that items imbued with strong emotions gain sentience (in this case warp presence, though not necessarily evil one) which is probably applicable when speaking of centuries old bolters, but doesn't apply to any regular piece of technology.

[@dreadfullink2279]

The lamenters would argue there isn’t a machine spirit in every nut and bolt or pin of a grenade!

[@elysiankentarchy1531]

Nonsense, there is and they all universally hate them.

[@dreadfullink2279]

@@elysiankentarchy1531 yes haha that was meaning to say English bad

[@Yandarval]

Motherboards can be washed, if done correctly. After its soapy bath. You want a tank to submerge it in Isopropanol Alcohol. This forces out any water etc under chips etc. Leve it after 30 mins. Then take it out and let it dry. A SOFT toothbrush can be used to scrub any stubborn bits. Being careful around the onboard cps, capacitors etc.