Are 20mph speed limits enforceable?

[@loyaltytoroyalty]

I spent a day in Cardiff yesterday, and it felt like I spent more time checking my speedo than looking at the road.

[@TheGrumpyChairman]

Maybe it's time to retake your driving test.

[@loyaltytoroyalty]

@@TheGrumpyChairman why?

[@nighttrain1236]

Stay in second gear and get some practice.

[@loyaltytoroyalty]

@@messageoftruth9797 don’t drive like what?

[@paulhenry7]

Use cruise control.

[@jackieclarke9771]

I live in South Wales and it’s a nightmare but I’ve noticed every time there is a back up of 20mph traffic the police put their blues and twos on so they can get through🤬 I’ve also noticed the buses seem to be travelling faster than 20mph. Another annoying thing is the older drivers don’t even do 20mph they go anything from 12-15mph, we’ve got cyclists and motorbikes overtaking the lines of cars. There are even roads that have 30mph painted on the road and then a 20mph signpost.. I can tell you that road rage has increased so that’s going to lead to more accidents you can see all the drivers screaming and shouting in their cars. Drakeford needs to go.

[@flashman2]

The Welsh keep voting them in

[@mikewade777]

Backed up traffic is the result of speeding and unnecessary short distance travel. Has nothing to do with speed limits.

[@thedirectorschair1054]

Drakeford needed to go a decade ago.

[@XENUGOLFCLUB]

Cops don’t stick to 30mph, no chance at 20

[@attaat]

@@mikewade777 Rubbish.

[@JudithGrainger]

All these new lower limits are supposed to make the roads safer? I’m looking forward to reduced insurance costs due to less accidents!

[@patriarch7237]

Strictly speaking, its not fewer accidents, its fewer fatalities from accidents. Insurance costs don't really figure into those.

[@lesigh1749]

No, they are in force to make drivers to give up using their cars and take public transport instead. It's coercive behavior. The pretext is the environment, but cars driving at 20MPH emit more pollution per mile than cars rolling at 30 or 40 MPH do. The safety statistics are true, but then its MUCH safer if we all just walk, so how far do they want us to go in that direction?

[@JonathanGray_UK]

i love the typical british mindset we have tbh. instead of training people not to walk in front of cars, we lower the speed limit of the car. so they can still get hit by it, but survive

[@jeremywilson2022]

If you think that's going to happen you are living in cloud cuckoo land!

[@lesigh1749]

@@JonathanGray_UK We call it the nanny State, but it is mostly limited to lefty middle-class types who think everyone else is responsible for their safety so they don't have to bother themselves.

[@Frecklesboy]

Wales the only place you can get done for speeding an curb crawling at the same time

[@alangknowles]

*Kerb.

[@adolfshitler]

​@@alangknowles There's always one

[@rogerthedodger5788]

😂😂😂.......

[@pobsdad]

@@adolfshitler Someone has to.

[@lemdixon01]

My friend in Wales says its now 20 mph with speed cameras when it was 40mph, on a main road in a remote areas with no schools, hospitals or houses apart from his. Its all about stopping private long distance transport for ordinary people and small business. So bear that in mind.

[@mikewade777]

No it's all about stopping short distance transport

[@Cat10980]

@@mikewade777 Which they also have no right to do.

[@mikewade777]

Which makes a good case for ending the NHS @@Cat10980

[@YDysgwrAraf]

This is nonsense. Didn't happen. Only previously 30mph roads are affected, and not all of them. I drove from south to north and back again on the A470 this weekend, and no 40mph sections have been changed, even where they really should have been (Cemaes and Cwm-Llinau in Montgomeryshire are good examples).

[@lemdixon01]

@@YDysgwrAraf I'm just relaying what he told me as I haven't been there myself. He lives in North Wales near Flint in quite a remote area. I normally trust his truthfulness. He said he still drives 40mph despite the 20mph signs so maybe he was going over the speed limit before it went down to 20mph but with less or no signs and speed cameras before the change. He said people are sabotaging the functioning of the new cameras and vandalising the 20mph signs.

[@athelstan2]

This is absolutely nothing to do with safety whatsoever and every thing to do with control and generating obscene amounts of Cash 100%

[@prelovedbargainsandantique2245]

Not that, it is to phase out driving.

[@BionicRusty]

Where I live we have what are effectively miles of moorland and it’s all now 20mph. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

[@The_Irish_Volunteer]

Ignore it.

[@prelovedbargainsandantique2245]

Take down the signs please, do your bit.

[@AndrooUK]

Considering that no kids play outside anymore, the actual rate of collisions must be going down all the time. 😅

[@leeroychang]

Love that you answer the question immediately and then explain further. The title got me interested, I'm not frustrated to wait for the answer, then I want to stay to hear the explanation. High quality content as usual. Thanks and well done.

[@herculeholmes504]

Note: If the speed limit is 30mph, and a vehicle is traveling at 30mph, it is very rare that the vehicle will still be traveling at 30mph at point of impact in a collision. Most usually the driver will hit his brakes and his speed will be significantly reduced. 30mph zone does NOT mean 30mph impacts.

[@theotherside8258]

I expect its pretty rare that someone will be travelling exactly at 30. Drivers know enforcement usually applies some leeway

[@keithmartland6463]

most accidents happen at junction when speed is lower, or people crossing the road

[@redf7209]

@@keithmartland6463 well most of those wont be fatal then. I think that's the point. Its not so much about stopping accidents but reducing fatal ones.

[@sw01ller]

you spelt "her" wrong

[@patrikfloding7985]

Huh?

[@PsychoticEwok]

I was in court for speeding in a 20 (I was doing 29) recently the road had 30 painted on it and the road had a mixture of 20 and 30 signs my case was dropped by the judge and since then the road now has 20 painted on it and all the 30 signs have been removed and I've had the points taken off my license

[@Hewbuntu]

How long will it be before motorists have to drive at 3mph with someone walking in front waving a red flag?

[@benedictmoss3058]

Soon , I hope.

[@hedydd2]

That is my policy and I’ve arranged for my wife to carry the flag while I constantly blare my car horn to warn potential fatal victims of my imminent arrival in their vicinity.

[@herrtomas6729]

There used to be an advertising initiative many years ago... "20 hurts; 30 kills"

[@DougBrown-h1n]

That was for cigarettes.

[@herrtomas6729]

@@DougBrown-h1n no, it wasn’t. Even had street signs here. Also council has signs that say “30 is a limit, not a target” - people get naffed off if you drive below the limit…..

[@MrJonboy]

@@herrtomas6729 I hate that expression with a passion, it's also wrong to a certain extent, I don't want to come off as being rude but when did you pass your driving test? Serious question because in modern driving tests, for example, if you are in a 30mph zone and are doing 20mph on clear and open roads consistently, you will fail for use of speed, so actually that expression is just false.

[@herrtomas6729]

@@MrJonboy nothing to do with when I passed my test… It’s what the councils here place on street signs. (North West) You can read it at eye level sitting on the lower deck of a bus!

[@MrJonboy]

@@herrtomas6729 Do you even have a driving license? I don't care what a council puts on a sign i'm talking about real life application in a driving test.

[@AllenTaylor-lu9bu]

I agree with the 20mph near schools (when occupied) and hospitals but this law is war on motorists. It is all about removing private cars off the road by restricting how far you are prepared to travel at 20mph and the beginning of the 15 minute Cities.

[@jamesm875]

In Scotland the 20mph speed limits have been in force for years and the road death tolls have went up. Easily checked yourself so this reverts to a money grab.

[@spiderbootsy]

That’s not true. They are only in selected areas like town centres. Not everywhere. People don’t obey them and they are not enforced

[@desdicadoric]

I live in Scotland, the blanket 20 came in for c0v1d, because it doesn’t transmit under 20mph apparently. Back up to 30 now

[@anishmahadeo5073]

Another possibility is the prevalence of SUVs which are both taller and heavier generally than hatch's or saloons thus more likely to kill you. Likewise, poorer and poorer visibility from larger and larger crash protection on cars

[@petersaundersuk]

I had my first ever speeding ticket after 35 years of driving for 22 in a 20 zone. As I understand it, car manufacturers do not want to be sued for saying they are under representing your speed, so when you are driving at 20mph, the speedo will show 21-22mph. At lower speeds this effectively kills off the % leeway, I think. So, if I was driving at 22mph, my car was telling me that I was driving at 23 or 24mph. If I had seen the speed limit signs, I should have known that I was driving too fast.

[@howardosborne8647]

There is another issue here with regard to pedestrian safety and that is the high number of pedestrians and cyclists with ear phones in and listening to music etc whilst walking or cycling on the roads. I do feel this also needs addressing as part of pedestrian safety initiatives.

[@gteaz]

That problem applies to vehicles too. Listening to music whilst driving on the roads.

[@valeriegrimshaw1365]

Don't forget all the foreigners used to a different flow...

[@nighttrain1236]

@@gteaz Also being shut inside a well sound-proofed car; you can't hear much outside. Time for motorists to have the windows down by law :D

[@areyouavinalaff]

@@nighttrain1236 just do away with car windows all together, that'll solve a few things, and also fit cars with square wheels, that'll slow them all down.

[@loyaltytoroyalty]

@@areyouavinalaff 😂😂😂😂

[@ReclusiveDuck]

I live in Wales and I drive for a living and from my experience it's a joke. While in theory it may be legally enforceable, in practical terms it simply isn't. 20mph is simply too slow for any prolonged period and it shows, very few people are taking any notice, including police etc. They can't fine every single driver, it'll cause and uproar, and it's already deeply unpopular as it is. I live in rural Wales and just this very morning there is a small protest happening against the 20mph limit 300yds from my front door. As for the safety statistics, where is it going to end? If we follow the logic of the Welsh government then eventually we'll get to the point where no one can drive at all, that way we can ensure no one ever has a road accident of any kind. When I was a child we were taught the Green Cross Code and there were short public information films on the TV, is that even a thing anymore? There seems to be a prevailing attitude that any accident involving a car and a pedestrian then it's always the driver who is at fault and that drivers need educating....Really? How about educating pedestrians too? From my experience pedestrians are just as dangerous as some drivers. I've lost count of the number of times someone has walked out in front of me with their head buried in a smartphone.

[@rar497]

See my ('rar497') comment in this thread about the "85th percentile rule" for the rational democratic & scientific argument for setting a speed limit.

[@ReclusiveDuck]

@@rar497 A perfectly common sense rule and explains why very few people complain about 20mph limits past schools or in some parts of council estates. If you know you're in an area where there's a reasonable chance that a young child, who can't be expected to fully understand the danger, could step out into the road, guess what? We naturally drive slower! But we now live in a time where policy makers know best (how we got to that point I'll never know!) and we need guidance for everything. Yet at the same time drivers are ALWAYS responsible for our actions yet cyclists and pedestrians much less so. I don't see any legislation coming against cyclists wearing headphones.

[@bobrice3957]

That was before the lunatics took over the Highway Code. When people had common sense and the Highway Code reflected that.

[@rainbowevil]

Would love to see how all of you would react to losing a child to being hit by a car. I’m sure you’d have nothing to say on reducing speeds. Conservatives man, don’t care about anything unless it directly affects them.

[@ReclusiveDuck]

@@rainbowevil When I was 14 my mother was nearly killed on her moped due to a collision with a Mini......In a 30mph zone (B4246 in Abersychan to be precise). The only reason she survived was because of an off-duty medic who was following her and managed to control the bleeding. Oh, and just for good measure I actually passed the accident on my way home on the school bus but didn't know at the time it was my mother. Found that out an hour later when the police came knocking at the door. Six years of pure hell and multiple surgeries and cases in the high court followed. The reason for the accident? the idiot driver who pulled out in front of her without looking. *Observation* is what needs to be drummed into drivers, pedestrians and definitely cyclists. Still Einstein, I suppose none of this affects me does it?

[@jo0ls]

My local dual carriageway has a 40 limit, signposted. It has a camera. Everyone used to slow to 30 for the camera even though the limit is 40. But now they slow to 20, and the limit is still 40.

[@davidhutchins5406]

Shows how terrible most drivers are.

[@redf7209]

Sat navs, who looks at signposts these days?

[@naznomad635]

Driving in Wales like Steve Buscemi, one eye counting streetlights, the other on my speedo.

[@acat6821]

Are the stats from 30 to 20mph fatals taken from speedzones or from impact speeds? As thats crucial

[@LunaStarFire]

impact speed

[@Mark-px3rq]

Yeah but when everyone is driving and texting at the same time, they are one in the same…

[@alexstewart9747]

Some main roads in SW London have 20mph limits but many of the side roads with double parked cars all the way along them have 30mph limits. It doesn’t make much sense. The Mayor and Councils just dislike car drivers.

[@Parallax33]

The illustration of people being killed at 20 and 30 suggests that those drivers do not slow down before impact

[@savinggrace70]

Living in Wales has become unbearable! Please can you say if there is a way to hold the Welsh Assembly to account. We are currently holding various protests, so far no-one can say if there is a mechanism that the public can pull to challenge the assembly. There is also a problem with policing in Carmarthenshire, there is something very sinister going on and the Welsh are feeling persecuted. The people of Wales would appreciate any information that can be used to stop the further decline of this country.

[@mikewade777]

What an utter load of ballsocks!. The people of Wales also don't want to stop this massive improvement to residential safety.

[@savinggrace70]

@@mikewade777 You must be the only one, and have obviously got your head stuck in your underpants and your vision has been affected! The Welsh have had enough of Snakeford and his cronies.

[@bolllochead]

Tufty and the Green Cross Code taught me road sense so I can safely cross a road with a 30 or even 40-mph speed limit.

[@myword1000]

Not if there's a lot of traffic you can't. The faster the vehicles are going, the harder it is for pedestrians to cross safely.

[@chrissansum]

@@myword1000Playing frogger as a kid taught me how to deal with that scenario.

[@fruitbat01]

@myworld100 - You seem to have missed the point that @bolochead was making. Believe it not, children used to be taught how to cross the road safely and where it was appropriate to do so. They took responsibility for their own safety and the decisions they made. Now we live in a world where people believe it is somebody else’s responsibility to keep them safe and take no responsibility for their own actions.

[@a20axf]

@@myword1000Exactly why pedestrians crossings are used.

[@myword1000]

@@a20axf There's often no Ped Crossing nearby.

[@johnhawkinshawkins1284]

I'm a 'not very busy' car park attendant in north London. In a 20mph zone. I sit in my car park all day, with plenty of time on my hands to observe 90% of vehicle passing by and they're all going over 30 mph. No question, including police cars and some school transport; there's a police station just around the corner some 300M away. In addition there's about 90 moped/scooter delivery drivers going by, up and down. 60% have an indicator left on and 40% are touching their 'phones searching for the next drop. The 20mph limit is a joke, most peeps do not adhere to this. So what? The cops DGAS!

[@Thurgosh_OG]

Earlier this year the head of Thames Valley Police said that local councils could make as many 20mph roads as they liked but that TVP would not be enforcing them, that would be down to councils (via fixed cameras) to do, as they (TVP) were not resourced to monitor so many low priority roads (or words to that effect).

[@markbarrett8180]

so the same as it now then

[@Stealth360stealth]

thank goodness for a common sense approach from TVP. The idea of British driving being consistent is out the window. That was the whole point of a NSL and a 30mph limit for urban areas and later the 40mph limit for fast urban roads, to make things simple and easy to interpret. Now things are just all over the shop, narrow roads being NSL, with wide straight roads which should be at least 40mph being restricted to 30 or even 20mph in some crazy cases in Oxfordshire - no wonder the driving deaths are increasing

[@gilesgreenaway5655]

F F for that!

[@xcape2usa]

15 minute cities. Walk. Don't drive. All about control.

[@chrisc626]

I was visiting Wales the weekend of the change. On making the return journey to England on the Sunday(change day), it was a nightmare. Most locals completely disregarded the new limit whilst some others complied causing the most dangerous situation ever. At one point our small convoy of 20mph ers were being overtaken by 40ft container trucks.....in the pouring rain. visibility was so bad, I was just waiting to get rear ended. Maybe some small local rods are ok at 20mph, but most others should not be. Ridicules.

[@rogerphelps9939]

The speeders should get points on their licenses. No excuse.

[@Jack-bs6zb]

Almost none will be killed in a 5mph collision. We already know the slower is the safer. The safest of all would be if we stayed at home and that’s likely the underlying purpose of making driving a miserable experience. Only unenforceability of oppressive diktats will restore balanced sense. What’s good for ULEZ signage will be applicable here.

[@colinbooth531]

A local small town was recently changed from 30mph to 20mph by the council under objections from the Police. They argued that no accidents had been reported where speed was a contributing factor, and they would not be enforcing the 20mph limit. So I do 30.

[@JunkyardDog-q1h]

Kids were taught to actually LOOK before crossing roads and wandering around, but we didn't have those mind boggling phones years ago.

[@Sp0tthed0gt]

I've noticed round my way that a couple of roads have 20mph signs at the entrances but no repeater signs in between, the absence of which makes the speed limit 30mph as they do have street lighting.

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

Err, no it doesn't. The Traffic Signs Manual shows that within 20mph zones repeater signs are not required.

[@hfjtrytry9216]

@@neiloflongbeck5705 I honestly dont know how some of these people passed their test. How did the OP not know this?

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

@@hfjtrytry9216 most people (and I include myself in that group) have areas of ignorance.

[@Valen-mh9fh]

How do you know when the zone starts and ends?

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

@@Valen-mh9fhin most locations a circular sign with a red boundary with the number 20 at the start and a similar sign with a 30 in it. In some ,o nation such as outside schools where the reduced limit is in effect then the starting point with have have an additional plate giving details of when the lower speed limit is in effect. It's all set out in the Traffic Signs Manual (details of the correct signage to use) and the Highway Code (details of the correct actions to take for all road users).

[@richardjames4632]

Oh, here we go again! ! in 40 dies in a 20 mph speed limit, BLAH, BLAH, F*ING BLAH. Why don't we go back to 5 mph with a red flag in front? The whole of life is a balancing act. If you're a pedestrian, keep out of the damn roads. I am tired of this fake justification for the State Control Grid.

[@gontmawr5010]

I am sorry, but that is ridiculous. Yes, obviously 20 is safer for pedestrians than 30....but what about 10mph? 5? 3? 1? This only stops when you push back. Life is difficult and full of risk, government are not needed or wanted to hold my hand through life. Life is tough, get a helmet.

[@DavidRichards-z2k]

I’ve been out on my motorbike all over north Wales the last few days, the signage is all to pot, 30mph signs & road markings but 20mph road due to the distance between lamp posts, 20mph signage with 30mph road markings & …. Flashing 30mph screens & everything in between!! There will be many many drivers who won’t even be aware that there has been a change in the law, foreign drivers for instance, other drivers who may be aware of it but don’t know the rule about the distance between lamp posts etc, so are most likely going to follow the signage ! The worlds gone mad 😂

[@Gooders478]

The 20MPH speed limit in Wales is an outrage. If man were to perambulate at a velocity exceeding 18MPH then his blood would surely congeal. They should reduce it to 15MPH immediately.

[@GilesWendes]

ANGRY PEOPLE IN LOCAL NEWSPAPERS.

[@nighttrain1236]

Don't forget the man in front waving a flag.

[@TootsMacTait]

😂😂😂

[@DarrenStarr]

5mph. Then you won't even kill a fly and we can bring the while economy to a standstill.

[@ianhill4585]

​@@nighttrain1236That plan was scrapped on health and safety grounds, waving a flag about could be a danger, it could have an eye out.... 😊

[@Paul_Holmes]

I think that if a speed limit is enforced to the exact MPH then all speedometers need to be 100% accurate.

[@zebo-the-fat]

As far as I know, all UK car spedo's read high when compared with the speed on a gps satnav (I assume the sat nav to be more accurate) If my car shows 40 mph, my sat nav shows 37 mph

[@beardyface8492]

100% accurate can't be done, that's basic engineering, which is why speedometers are allowed to read up to 10% high, but not low at all, which is pretty easy to arrange when making & calibrating them. You can guarantee as a result that unless your speedometer shows you going over the limit, you won't be over it.

[@paulgriffiths531]

tricky unless all speedos worked off a satnav idea because even if you speedo was 100% correct, then as the tyre wears , you will need more revolutions of the tyre to do the same distance, so your speedo becomes more and more inaccurate as the tyre wears

[@beardyface8492]

@@paulgriffiths531 The increase in RPM of the tyres with wear results in the speedo reading high, not low, so what you just described is a complete non-issue.

[@paulgriffiths531]

@@beardyface8492 you misunderstanding my point. I merely said that even if a speedo was accurate, then over time as the tyre wears , the speedo would become more and more inaccurate. Whether thats good or bad is a different matter and not what I was referring to

[@geepersoilyrag1884]

I said this in a lot of videos on this, as much as it pains me to say, the 20 limits have been reasonably well implemented. Its a pain with roads changing from 20 to 30 and back again as people just do 20 in the 30s. Also the sheer amount of signage that has gone up makes me think that someone made an awful lot of money from this little project!

[@davidcolin6519]

I used to do a regular route in one of my past jobs where there were 15 changes of speed limit in less than 10km, with limits of 30, 50, 80 and 110kph all on the same road and with barely any visible reason for any of them, and it was an absolute nightmare. Part of the problem is that different authorities apply different rules. Information Overload is a real thing, and the UK used to be very good at keeping signage to only the necessary. That seems to have completely gone by the wayside these days. There doesn't appear to be any control on who puts up what sign, or even any limit to the number of signs. I am absolutely in favour of speed reducing measures, but the wanton use of every possible sign for every part of the road is just counter-productive.

[@dh2032]

and the go from 20 in the 30s every minutes or so will make even more?

[@davidcolin6519]

@@dh2032 Any chance you could post something that is comprehensible to a native English speaker? Does everybody have to think that everything that is introduced can only possibly be done to make money? If that is the case, why don't you let us all know how much you'll let your kids go for. The idea of having a slave might interest some of the UK's favourite allies, like Saudi Arabia. The right wing media really has done a proper job on British people's entire system of values. And every day I thank my past self for having left that septic isle.

[@The_Irish_Volunteer]

Well implemented? With your money!! Anything which messes up people's lives and the economy is.

[@The_Irish_Volunteer]

@@davidcolin6519 I agree, not just to make money but more so to control us.

[@Mucklegipe]

In my day the likes of the ‘Tufty Club and the green cross code’ taught youngsters predominantly how to cross the road safely, I personally have experienced a eighteen year old just walking off the pavement in front of me, having failed to look to see if it was safe to do so. I think to some extent the onus has shifted to the motorists to keep errant pedestrians and cyclists safe, instead for them to take any responsibility for their own safety. Add to that it seems to be that some have forgotten just what the purpose the streets and roads are for, the movement of vehicles, which should be crossed if safe to do so, there is even mechanisms in place called crossings to facilitate this.

[@edwardwilliams9185]

Yes, the onus is on drivers as they are traveling in a large metal object. Streets were for people, not vehicles, for hundreds of years until the early 1900s when we started reallocating space to the private vehicle. There is also an important distinction to be made between streets, meant for people, and roads, meant for moving vehicles; 20mph limits are used in streets where people should be able to move freely about without being killed or maimed.

[@hedgehog1965uk]

@@edwardwilliams9185 No, pavements are for people and roads are for vehicles. Whatever happened to LOOKING before crossing the road and NOT walking in front of a moving vehicle? We pander to idiots so much these days, rather than making people responsible for their own safety. I am so sick of people just walking out in front of my car and expecting me to hit the brakes. I don't even slow down. They either get out of the way or they get hit, it's up to them and I know who will suffer worse. Guess which they decide to do when they realise I'm not slowing down for them?

[@alan2804]

Best you hand your driving license in.​@@hedgehog1965uk

[@The_Irish_Volunteer]

@@edwardwilliams9185 So someone walks out from behind a large truck a few feet from a vehicle traveling at 20mph head buried in a phone, what do you think the result will be? Times have changed mate. The guy walking in front of a motor vehicle with a red flag have long since passed.

[@The_Irish_Volunteer]

@@hedgehog1965uk I agree with you in part, but the onus is on both really. The person who will come off worse should be the one who should be far more vigilant, if not for that reason alone. No point arguing about fault when you are lying in a hospital bed or worse. Too many people's heads stuck into phones these days. You should always slow down if you have the opportunity when someone is crossing your path. It's called safe and sensible driving, otherwise it can be construed as driving with out due care and attention or without reasonable consideration.

[@davebrown6552]

20mph limits increase pollution, any time a vehicle is not is top gear the engine has to go round more times for every meter moved. Engines not operating in their designed power range will also not be running at their most efficient which burns more fuel. People driving slowly become less attentive and far more easily distracted, an F1 driver does not spend much time looking at the flowers at the side of the track. Driving faster increases your focus on what is in front.

[@TheFurrry]

It's pretty common for us here in Scotland, most housing estates/school zones have a twenties Plenty zone now, it's doesnt cause any issues that i have ever seen. It would cause issues on a main road with traffic passing all day.

[@paulgriffiths531]

And there's the main point "most housing estates/school zones". - wales is generally making main roads 20 too and councils are not applying for enough exemptions

[@gdonaldson26]

If I remember rightly, when it was introduced it was to only be in areas such as schools and residential roads for safety and to stop people using them as a rat run, and that it would never be applied to main roads as that would defeat the purpose. Fast forward almost 20 years and that's exactly what's happening: 20mph roads anywhere they can put them. Midlothian is now looking to expand the 20mph roads to as many places as they can based off their 'totally not-biased leading question' questionnaire. The point I suppose, is because some folks can't seem to stay near 30mph, so everybody gets shafted by it when it reduces to 20mph.

[@everyonecancraft70]

Having 20 mph limits in housing estates is one thing but having them on EVERY road in a town is very different In most housing estates it is hard to do 2 miles or more within a 20 limit even if you are hopelessly lost. I can think of one place where you can drive at least a mile without seeing any buildings but because there are streetlights it is now 20mph. Very different from a housing estate. Driving through even a small town can now mean 4 or 5 miles of 20 mph limits. The new limit applies to any road with a certain spec of streetlights. It could be a numbered road such the A1104 or A494 not just Juniper Avenue. The exemption process will make life easier but it could take months for the effects of that to be felt.

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

Main roads are in most cases higher. There is a map online with the exceptions are there are loads and loads of them. But it's certainly possible that there are others that they have missed that should be 30 and they will likely raise them in due course. Unfortunately there are some roads that are busy that you might consider to be a main road but that also have houses directly on them perhaps with shops etc as well. How do you deal with that situation? A road that a lot of people want to drive along doesn't magically stop having pedestrians. Ideally many of those drivers should find an alternative route on unrestricted roads. A well designed town should have a clear distinction between streets and arterial roads so that drivers can get where they are going without having to drive along streets at all until they get near their destination. Unfortunately towns and villages that grew up before traffic became a serious problem often don't achieve this. Safety railings and light controlled pedestrian crossings can help make arterial roads that also have a lot of pedestrian traffic safer without dropping he speed limit to 20. Hopefully the councils will install some of these and raise the speed limit on main roads to balance everyone's needs.

[@kevgallacher]

In these kind of areas 20mph is appropriate , the kind of streets in this areas aren't really safe to drive any faster. They are usually full of parked cars and are narrow and likely to have kids playing in the area. But on main roads and dual carriageways, 20mph seems artificially slow.

[@garethdavies7450]

Here in Wales we should have had a comprehensive review of the speed limits e.g the A4049 has a speed limit of 60mph, however any attempt to do that speed would be suicidal, but the A465 a upgraded dual carriage way has a limit of 50mph..crazy..but that's the Labour government for you

[@dickybannister5192]

why is it the "labour government". you think they just throw f*cking mug down and draw a circle around it? maybe they have, i dunno, advice about particular sections of road. i drove around cardiff quite a bit a few years ago. it was mental on the dual carriageways. i am not surprised at all to hear of some of the accidents that happen.

[@nickjnow1]

I like Rule 125 of the highway code in short drive to the conditions and layout of the road. It accepts that there is great variation and one should use common sense when driving. It treats drivers like adults and does not try to micro manage peoples behaviour. Though out the years 30mph has been the accepted speed in built up areas and this has worked and worked well.

[@rar497]

See my ('rar497') comment in this thread about the "85th percentile rule" for the rational democratic & scientific argument for setting a speed limit.

[@nickjnow1]

@@rar497 I've just read your post, it was facinating and advise anyone else who reads this to do the same.

[@p75369]

It sounds like you are saying 125 give you permission to keep doing 30? 125 starts with "the speed limit is the absolute maximum", it exists to say that you should slow down even if the speed limit didn't make you.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Not true. Most road deaths occur in built up areas with 30mph speed limits.

[@nickjnow1]

@@rogerphelps9939 Can you provide the source of your statistics.

[@levelcrossing150]

Now motorists are looking at the speedo more instead of looking at the road which can't be good. 10% of 20mph is only 2 miles per hour if any error is allowed. I'm in second and third gear so much more now, not good for my car or the pollution.

[@beardyface8492]

And when you were a new driver you looked way more to keep to 30. It's purely & simply a case of getting used to judging 20, exactly like you're used to judging 30. The pollution argument isn't as clear cut as you seem to think either, producing torque is much more of an issue for burning fuel than simple RPM, if there's a difference between 20 & 30 it'll likely be small, & could be either direction depending on the specific car & other factors, a very significant one being air resistance, which varies with the square of the speed.

[@Ant86744]

I agree that areas require a reasonable speed in built up areas. The biggest issue you have recently excluding the ones speeding is that people are to engaged on there phones whether that is the person crossing the road or the driving. The amount of times I have come close to hitting someone because they started to cross without looking because they were on their phone is unreal. Luckily I have come to a screeching stop/ swerving because I was too close to stop. I think we need to do a reminder like the old hedgehog advert about stopping and looking.

[@adrianthoroughgood1191]

The government should pay for a new road crossing ad campaign on FB YT IG etc.

[@kaikorzonek922]

You bring the risk to that pedestrian with your car so you should be responsible for it. What if there is someone that can't head or see you because of a disability should they be penalised for your privilege. If you have to come to a screeching stop then you were going too fast for the road and conditions. In any built up area you should be ready for something to happen.

[@llahma69]

You will normally find deaf or blind people pay more attention than those with all there sense's, except common sense and thats not a disabiltiy. and if someone steps out five feet in front of you then even a 15 miles per hour you will screech to a halt, sounds like you dont drive much if at all. And as for bringing the risk to the pedestrian i know the change in the highway code makes predestrians blameless but if you walk into the road what would you expect to find there, Cars maybe. tIt would be nice if people stop trying to blame others for there own actions when it goes wrong. @@kaikorzonek922

[@hfjtrytry9216]

@@kaikorzonek922couldnt have said it better myself. Honestly as a driver is sickens me just how entitled some people are. 20mph is more than enough to get you where you need to go

[@nockianlifter661]

@@hfjtrytry9216A 20mph limit won’t alter bad driving, or speeding. Driver education and more stringent driving tests would help far more. I’m often driving far slower than 20mph in areas in response to increased hazards. The other option is to make urban areas far more pedestrian friendly by reducing the distinction between road and pavement so that it becomes a multi-use area. Get rid of a lot of the signage too as it’s become extremely distracting and often quite conflicting. There is a responsibility on all road users, including pedestrians to keep each other safe rather than seeing it always as a competitive arena.

[@stuartjohnston1086]

Good point about the requirement for a traffic order. Our local council has a "no overtaking" sign on a local A road section. It's a yellow backed square sign with "no overtaking" written in black letters. Not a proper road sign and there is no traffic order. Completely unenforceable, so I ignore it and overtake when safe and legal to do so.

[@sahhull]

I live in a 20mph school zone. It's slowed most of the drivers down to 40mph. On a night it's a race track. We had a speed camera bike parked a while ago. I walked over and asked him how many he'd got. He took a look and said. He had got 320 going over 30mph in 2 hours! He wasn't fining anyone he was just checking speeds to see if the 20 zone worked.

[@davidcolin6519]

if you don't like it, DO something!

[@sahhull]

@@davidcolin6519 doing something without stating what that something is, is the same as nothing.

[@allanhughes7859]

well said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@@sahhull

[@malthomas987]

On a night it's a race track. Yes out side school hours. show your evidence for "race track" are they racing? in which case its against the road traffic act. or just a bit fast for you. a little noisy perhaps?

[@neilcampbell2222]

​@barryjones1483Nothing. In the UK fines aren't kept locally, they go to general government income. Keeping too much locally gives a perverse incentive to abuse the system.

[@farab4391]

The statistics of 1 of 40 people would die if hit by 20mph and 5 of 40 at 30mph is interesting, but why does this become the driver's issue? Unless the majority of these pedestrians are hit on the sidewalk or on a pedestrian crossing, which I strongly doubt is the case, the issue is with the pedestrians not following road safety and ending up in front of a moving car. It's like when one idiot gets burnt by a freshly brewed cup of coffee, which is clearly a hot drink, but now the rest of us can't get hold of a nice hot cup of coffee. They always go for the easy target, because it's easier catching someone going over 20mph with a camera, than it is catching someone running across the road not looking to see if it's safe first.

[@washburn8049]

Give a few more years and we will be employing someone to walk in front of the car with a flag.

[@peter2346]

speed limits should be used because of a concrete safety reasons only. blanket limits and limits imposed on green reasons should be made illegal. also driving at 20 causes more incidents than 30 i.e. number of incident increased when it was introduced in Cardiff because drivers were bored to death and pedestrians did not bother to look around.

[@alexandersimpson3638]

My partners car doesn't go into cruise control below 30mph!

[@quigglebert]

18mph for mine, oddly specific

[@alexandersimpson3638]

@@quigglebert my Merc is 25mph for cruise control.

[@alexandersimpson3638]

@barryjones1483 it'd be nice to not keep looking at your speedometer, seriously! Not to mention this is about 20mph ,not 30mph! 🙄

[@liberexcogitatoris1792]

A person hit at 20mph compared to a a person hit at 30mph is an irrelevant non sequitur. Statistics show a car not hitting a pedestrian at 30 is far safer than a car hitting a pedestrian 20mph. People seemed to have fallen for government authorities propaganda and engineering of consent, that hitting pedestrians is now unavoidable and inevitable so we must drive slowly to avoid killing them, anyone with that mindset should not be allowed to drive. Reaction times, roadcraft, hazard perception and eyesight is a bigger issue, not speed so lets ban incompetent drivers. FYI I have driven over 4 million miles (yes really) in trucks, motorbikes, cars without an accident and I often drive above the speed limit (safely and appropriate for the conditions) , so my stats obviously disapprove the idea that speeding leads to an inevitable crash. Most speed limits implemented over the last 25 years are now inappropriately slow but interestingly coincide with technological advances giving the ability to trap motorists 24 hours a day 7 days a week as well as the financial difficulties of the authorities and their need to find extra revenue streams, the fine revenues are now measured in the millions, Cui Bono!

[@mijimonmaster]

If only the government would put so much time, effort and rescouces into catching actual criminals as they do with motorists. Then again, they dont steal as much revenue doing that

[@benedictmoss3058]

A speeder is a criminal.

[@mijimonmaster]

@@benedictmoss3058 Sigh. Read it again, and notice "as much effort". Then go and look at the statistics that show that only 3 - 5% of burglaries are solved. How many times have you unintentionally strayed over the speed limit? That make you a criminal?

[@benedictmoss3058]

I was nearly murdered by a speeding idiot 2 days ago,this is personal

[@mijimonmaster]

@@benedictmoss3058 And i've had way too many close calls with people doing the limit when riding my bike.

[@benedictmoss3058]

@@mijimonmaster you don't know when to shut up do you?

[@philipcable437]

Beware of the statements starting with "It's for your own good" or "It's for safety".

[@Abdullah97484]

This is sadly another case of the UK anti-motorist movement. As a driver, having to constantly worry about if you are going over and if you are going to get flashed contributes to the amount of incidents we have. It's just a nightmare, just like those new smart motorways, which are now proven to increase deaths.

[@hedydd2]

The ridiculous proliferation of signs on our roads is a dangerous disgrace. For people not accustomed to some roads there is an information overload that is as distracting and confusing as any device in the car for which you could be fined for using. It is so bad in some places that these alone cause so much of a hazard that they justify the 20mph limit. Cut 70% of them down and simplify and make street information once again clear for all.

[@ianhill4585]

That's the drawback for "them", clearer signage won't trip you up and entrap you so much, leading to points and fines. It's all geared to get their hands on your money for fines and tot up points for a driving ban.

[@chriswharrier3571]

I live in a 20mph area near a school. In my opinion, it's not slowed down the traffic, it's the same with all the parking restrictions the council added they are ignored as nobody seems bothered to enforce either.

[@anishmahadeo5073]

Anti motorist? Our whole country bends over backwards for cars, so much space is taken up by roads and infrastructure designed for cars. We are highly privileged some people have no choice but to walk. We might have to worry about going over the limit but peds or cyclists have to worry about being crushed. I'm a car enthusiast through and through but I disagree that the govt hates motorists

[@edj4833]

There is no war in the motorist. We are the country with one of the poorest public transport systems in Europe and one of the poorest for bike infrastructure. It's long been a war on getting around anywhere except by car.

[@juliandarch9278]

You used to be arrested for driving in London at 20 miles an hour, it was called kerb crawling 😂

[@lh4394]

Thank you. I know i requested this a while ago being in Wales so thank you for that

[@user-johnolchowy]

In other words, we the peasants can be dictated to what speed we travel at any time. without any, Thing that the population want, Can just be overridden by government and bureaucracy? Soon they will be telling us we can only drive at 10 miles an hour In certain areas, Then I would suggest the sh1t will hit the fan.

[@veryhappychappy12]

Didn't take long for Drakeys influencers to arrive with their snide passive aggressive comment. This 'law' alongside a host of others has done the labour party damage.

[@eagle_and_the_dragon]

Good. The Uniparty needs to be destroyed.

[@veryhappychappy12]

​@@eagle_and_the_dragonSpot on😁.

[@alan2804]

Better to stick to facts rather than get involved in politics

[@phreffable]

Let’s be honest, these limits have nothing to do with the number of accidents but with the number of fines the local authorities can squeeze from motorists.

[@stevenhodgson834]

Love how your videos always bring out the cranks. Great work, keep it up!

[@MR.TB67]

20 mph seed limit makes my blood boil and causes me nothing but road rage 🤦‍♂️😡😡😡

[@paulcawley6330]

I live in South Wales and it is a nightmare. My fuel economy has fallen by circa 25%. 80% of drivers are ignoring new limits, drivers are less courteous, incidents of dangerous driving have increased, more drivers seem to be using mobile phones whilst driving and I'd argue it is less safe as I'm constantly being overtaken by electric bikes delivering food orders. It will damage the Welsh economy as businesses (including health workers) are now making fewer calls.

[@jong3461]

Can remember the TV adverts that stated all the risks of each speed to try and get people to think about chirldem while driving in built up areas.

[@pawelnotts]

While it's true what research shows about speed and fatalities it's important to remember that for a pedestrian to be hit at 30mph they would have had to barged in right in front of a car doing 30mph and not giving the driver a chance to brake, or driver was distracted and didn't see the pedestrian entering, or driver was doing more than 30mph and slowed down to 30 at the moment of impact. So while reducing the speed to 20 does address some of the above I think that majority of the time the impact would take place at less than 30mph even if no 20mph limit existed, if that makes sense? I just want to stress out that education of pedestrians and drivers alike should play a major role here, especially younger ones. People need to be aware of the dangers of being hit by a car. All in all I'm not in favour of blanket 20 in all built up areas. Schools and tight streets only should be enough.

[@rogerphelps9939]

It is still the case that most fatalities occur in areas with 30mph speed limits. Reducing the speed limit to 20mph should result in fewer fatalities.

[@pawelnotts]

@@rogerphelps9939 so should education. Not talking about going full Darwin and let people die but at the end of the day it's your responsibility to look after your life and wellbeing.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Of course it is but nevertheless cars kill people and slower cars kill a lot fewer people. It is far from always that it is the pedestrian's fault anyway.@@pawelnotts

[@pawelnotts]

@@rogerphelps9939 while I don't disagree with you I just looked at the stats and it appears that only 360-450 pedestrians die on the roads each year. Obviously their families would hate me for saying this but from a purely statistical angle those numbers are almost insignificant compared to the number of cars on our roads. I would say that 30 is safe enough as it is with 20 being a common sense middle ground when imposed around schools and very tight local streets with limited visibility (many parked cars etc).

[@alanwoody3073]

It’s all a load off bollocks it’s just another cash cow.

[@wolvoman1]

BUT, if the car had been travelling at 30mph instead of 20mph the pedestrian wouldn't have been hit, because the vehicle would have already driven past earlier !!!

[@amyp66]

😂

[@michaelkaliski7651]

It is very rare for cars in a 30mph limit to actually hit a pedestrian at 30mph. The driver usually becomes aware of the risk of collision and brakes hard before contact is actually made. So the actual impact is usually at a lower speed than 30mph. It might be argued that at 20mph the collision would not take place but this is not actually the case. At 20mph, drivers are much more easily distracted and are less likely to be paying full attention to the road. This is fact based on actual observations and investigations of accidents over nearly three decades. Others may have different experiences to relate but 30mph has been accepted as a reasonable residential speed limit for around a century. There is clearly some other agenda behind these 20mph speed limits and it is not anything to do with pedestrian safety. Self driving electric vehicles??? Revenue raising for local councils without increasing the rates?

[@GwladYrHaf]

@@homie3461 your first paragraph shows me you have been cognitively snoozing for the past few years.

[@kawker]

In Wales they are not able to enforceable at the moment because there legally cannot - but the Police will pull you over to "talk" to you. This info has come directly from South Wales police

[@JohnDavis-ed5sg]

Why 20? Why not 5? Why not 2? I walked into something once and it hurt, so walking pace should be regulated, but better really to have universal permanent lockdown, nobody allowed in the street for any reason will mean no road accidents. And people dying of starvation in their houses will be so good for the environment. Thank God we have politicians who care, the ones who want us all to have those lovely MRNA jabs.

[@JohnDavis-ed5sg]

@@homie3461 Good. Stay safe now!

[@K1lostream]

When I was little, they reduced road deaths by teaching children the green cross code, now they want to make cars static objects instead. I hope the people of Wales rebel against this nonsense - thank goodness (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) Rishi has taken the appropriate stance in England. PS fsck spending my tourist-money in Wales from now on (and I liked Wales - been mountain biking in the Afan forest many a time).

[@davidhutchins5406]

Of course knowing and adhering to the green cross code makes you immune to being hit by a car. Grow up.

[@jamesdewitt84]

No they didn't. They tried to, it didn't work. Besides the whole approach of trying to teach the children how to not be killed rather than teaching people not to kill children JUST so you can drive slightly faster in built up areas is indefensible.

[@retro2vr]

Well we don't want you here if you think a slight inconvenience to you is worse than potentially killing a kid. This WILL save lives. That's all that matters.

[@vapour80]

​@@davidhutchins5406 what a great point you make by saying nothing while trying to make the other person out to be the child... well done

[@markbarrett8180]

IF you think 20mp is 'static' perhaps you'll take part in a little experiment. You just stand there have a 2 ton metal object propelled at you at 20mph. IF as you claim it's static then you'll be fine. IT's no big deal travelling a little more slowly - as a tourist you'll see more

[@bearwolffish]

People on peddle bikes be overtaking me on my motorbike in 20 zones.

[@colinlarge9000]

It just about control

[@The_Irish_Volunteer]

It's all about control.

[@pajownik]

If we eliminate car travel altogether, nobody will be killed by them. What a progress that would be!

[@rainbowevil]

This is true, and also pollution would be greatly reduced! Unfortunately it won’t happen, but we can demand better public transport and cycling/walking infrastructure in the meantime :)

[@hugodrax71]

And after the next plane crash, we'll ban flying.

[@rainbowevil]

@dougaldouglas8842 let’s continue to move away from that awful time then, the more pollution we remove, the better for all of us.

[@derthephoto2882]

A clue in your article - no car accidents if cars were banned. There will still be accidents and deaths though. Cyclists, e-scooters, invalid transportation etc will still be around and in increasing numbers. Accidents and deaths will rise. The extra downfall is none of the above have insurance, identification etc and the laws of the road do not apply to them. It will be like death race 2000, sorry death race 2035,!

[@pajownik]

@@rainbowevil By eliminating population pollution would be reduced to zero. Is that your "perfect" future?

[@garydeverson2729]

Drakeford said, this is too save lives but a lot of schools in Wales did not have a 20mph speed limit before the new law, so does he really care or is this just a money making idea? I live in Wales and just out of interest, I have not seen many people complying with the 20mph speed limit, if there is a camera, people slow down and speed up on the other side. Very few people agree or were asked about the the new law before it was installed and most disagree. Has Drakeford dreamed up this idea or was he told to implement it by London as a trail for the rest of the UK?

[@waynerosie]

Would be interesting to know how many people are killed when hit by a car in a 30mph zone compared to in a 20mph zone (as opposed to at 30mph v at 20mph).

[@pup6728]

I doubt there's any way of finding it out exactly - they normally record KSI stats based on the limit in place, not the actual speeds. No driver hitting someone in a 20 will happily admit that they were doing 30.

[@KevinHorrox]

The problem with this, is when recording for statistics, information is anonymous, meaning locations aren't involved. This helps remove possible biases. However, here is a RoSPA report from 2017 highlighting some important statistics Namely, that in 20mph limits, the fatality rate is ~1.5%, while in 30mph limits it's 8%. This is a 430% increase in fatalities, to save neglible amounts of time www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/advice-services/road-safety/drivers/20-mph-zone-factsheet.pdf

[@dickybannister5192]

from a qualitative point of view the "its 30 for a reason" advert from 25 years ago highlights the problem with any kind of direct quantitative question like this: it is literally meaningless. the question can only be answered by statistics. and, anyway, why is "death" the key determinant? how did we end up with people "thinking" such nonsense is how to address the question

[@brianlopez8855]

Perhaps Members of the Welsh Sennedd would like to volunteer to test it ?

[@LA-ph6hh]

On the driving test, you could be failed for "not making due progress" or driving too slow

[@mfd70]

One of the problems with the "blanket" "non-blanket" 20mph rules in Wales is there are just so many changes of speed limit, one one road I use there used to be two speed limits which changed six times in about nine miles. Now there are five different speed limits which change 18 (eighteen) times in the same distance. There is no consistency to limits as local councils can make changes and peoples driving habits are so poor they do not read the posted speed so end up doing 20 or even as low as 10-15 everywhere. There was no demand for this, it was imposed on us and now the assembly say it will never be reversed and if people continue to complain they will impose lower speed limits in more places. Welcome to Wales, even the clocks go backwards.

[@everyonecancraft70]

Only 6 speed limit changes in 9 miles! Last time I tried counting the speed limits between my house and my parents it was 10 or an average of 1 every mile. This with about 2 miles being unrestricted. It was 1 black 20 and 1 red 20. It is now 3 red 20. There are so many changes I need a passenger to take notes as trying to count how many 20 30 40 and 50 signs there is so difficult. How am I supposed to keep to a constantly changing speed limit?

[@welsh5546]

one road by me goes from 20 to 40 to 60 to 20. lots of drivers slamming on brakes going from 60 to 20

[@lmaoroflcopter]

It was listed word for word within labour's manifesto. If there was no demand for it, how are labour in power? If you have issues with speed limits on your local roads, complain to the body that sets them - your local council.

[@lmaoroflcopter]

​@@welsh5546Why? Seems like a failure to anticipate or read the road going on there. One trip through and you'd think drivers would then be aware there was a speed limit change. Though coming off of a dual carriage way we used to go from 70 to 0 within a few hundred metres due to it being a roundabout at the bottom of a sliproad. 60 to 20 seems less arduous a change than that.

[@robertfoster6070]

Many years ago an old electric clock used to go backwards. A scientific person claimed the clock could never go backwards until it was noticed by an ordinary person going backwards. So if the clocks go backwards in Wales then as time rolls back everyone will become younger and 30mph will return.

[@pjcnet]

If you travel at 10MPH even less will be hurt, well how about we don't drive at all and none will be hurt by cars? Reducing speed limits to ridiculous speeds defeats the purpose of driving at all. The reason 20MPH speed limits are being implemented ever more is part of the war against motorists and driving further away from the economic speed also increases emissions.

[@hedydd2]

I’m thinking 3mph is safer than 20 and is a speed at which my wife can walk ahead holding a red flag while I drive with the horn constantly honking to warn potential victims of my near imminent approach. This would surely save at least one life every decade if implemented across Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[@KevinThomas-bv8uj]

Thank you for taken time to research this outrageous law, how do we here in north wales fight to get mr Drakeford fired or to resign.

[@KevinHorrox]

You understand, he isn't running in the next election - and change of leadership won't change this policy?

[@chatboy25]

GoSafe in Wales have said they will not prosecute a driver in a 20 mph area, if they are travelling no more than 20 mph plus 10% plus 4 miles per hour - ie. 26 mph.

[@paulgriffiths531]

for now (I think I saw 6 months somewhere)

[@68000Mark]

Is there wording in the law that says when a speed limit has been put in place, sufficient signage has to tell the road user when the speed limit has finished? I see loads of 20mph signs near schools (which is fair enough) but they never have a sign to say the 20mph limit has ended.

[@archivist17]

You need your eyes testing?

[@KevinHorrox]

The speed limit changes when you come across a new speed limit sign

[@68000Mark]

@@KevinHorrox And that is what I try to follow but the local council put up a 20mph sign then the next sign is a 30mph some 4 miles later. If you turn around to exit the 30mph limit, there is a national speed limit sign so at some point after the 20mph it goes to the national speed limit but nobody knows what point that is.

[@wyldeme]

Imagine taking personal responsibility for not being a bell end and walking in front of a car, instead of making it everyone else's fecking responsibility. Just consider the kind of people we could have living in our society then.

[@johnharrison1743]

Here in N Wales our health service is a disgrace, emergency ambulance takes 10 hours to arrive. Waiting lists beyond lifespan! Education is so poor that 'home ed' is growing in popularity. Police non-speeding response is a criminal's charter. So spend £33M on 20mph, increase emissions from vehicles, confuse drivers who don't know if 30 is actually 20 or not. Despite studies showing the results in accident prevention were negligible. Yes, death rates fall as speed drops but how many people are hit by a car doing 30 in a 30 zone? Drivers brake. Lies, damned lies and statistics.

[@si1208]

Just a step in the direction of a total ban on private vehicles.

[@davidhutchins5406]

Yawn.

[@antitheist2000]

​@@davidhutchins5406it is in the welsh assemblies literature to reduce private vehicle ownership !

[@doriancreber7139]

It's chaos in most places in Wales... for example: 20mph sign then 30 yards down the road 30 circle on the road. Also 30 mph signs spray painted over with an "X" and still readable as 30 mph.

[@RogerC596]

Irrespective of the legalities and/or safety aspect in Wales the government is acting in a dictatorial manner. The limits are totally confusing, in places they are absolutely ridiculous and essentially unwanted by the general public. It does nothing to ease traffic flow or indeed add to road safety in fact it is counter productive.

[@beardyface8492]

What's dictatorial about putting a measure in your manifesto, getting elected, & then doing what you said you'd do if elected? Pardon my ignorance, but isn't that exactly how democracy is supposed to work? There were other options on the ballot paper, but the majority chose this.

[@RogerC596]

@@beardyface8492 It was 'hidden' in the small print and OK smart arse do you read every word in contracts you sign? When the announcement came based on lies and falsehoods and failed trial areas 'the people' made it clear it was not wanted. It is costly in so many ways and is already impacting on the quality of life for thousands of people in a negative way.

[@beardyface8492]

@@RogerC596 Hardly "hidden", I found it easy enough, & I'm not even a Welsh voter. Right there as it's own bullet point, both Labour & Plaid manifestoes. Shows up with either if you just leaf through skimming them. Most people don't bother looking, just vote for the donkey with the red rosette. Their own fault, not even like the opposition parties weren't warning them either, but same tribalism stops people listening if the party has the wrong colour rosettes. Maybe they'll look NOW instead of voting blindly. One can hope.

[@lmaoroflcopter]

​@@RogerC596hidden in the small print? You mean it was there, written in full within the main text of their manifesto? Like I get it if you don't like labour you don't like labour but man alive you can't bloody claim its in the small print when its plain as bloody day in the middle of the damn page.

[@RogerC596]

Take a breath .....your defence of Dictator Drakeford clearly affects your reasoning. If you were inclined to read the whole manifesto then you are likely one of a small minority who did so. Most people who bother to vote accept the canvassers and mouthpieces at face value because they/we have a degree of trust which has clearly been shown to be misplaced and handed power to a dictatorship.

[@BrianPseivaD]

I live in Wales, it’s so confusing, even the police cars are ignoring the 20 limit, if they met us half way and said 25mph is the new limit, that would be more acceptable and tenable!

[@RussellDeacon]

The science shows dramatic reduction in death and injury at 20.

[@MrEdrftgyuji]

​@RussellDeacon Science also says that 66 million people die every second from made up statistics.

[@ianbrown9082]

I'm in Surrey and i've seen the Police even ignore the 30mph limits (and they are definately NOT on an emergency call because they speed in residential/school areas and I catch them up stting at the next at red traffic light or junction) The Police are a law unto themselves

[@radweld]

@@RussellDeacon If you're stupid enough to stand in the middle of a busy road, would you rather be hit by a double decker buss at 20 or a smart car at 30? I guarantee one will hurt more than the other.

[@markmason2616]

Acceptable to whom?

[@DonPablo2011]

People wittering on about 'safety', perhaps if pedestrians practiced "Stop, Look, Listen', perhaps they wouldn't walk out in to roads to be hit by vehicles, regardless of the speed they are travelling at. Take responsibility for your own safety rather than rely on someone else. It's always easier to blame someone else, they were going too fast, not looking, not expecting me to just walk out in front of them!!!! When crossing a road, I make sure it's safe to do so, not step out hoping a 2 ton vehicle will be able to stop on a penny for me.

[@benedictmoss3058]

2 days ago a yob tried to run me over as I was crossing at a green light for me and a red light for him. I waited for the lights to change even though drivers think I'm an idiot to wait and not just cross.If there had been a brick nearby he would have been sorry.

[@DonPablo2011]

@@benedictmoss3058 I'm sorry to see that. The yob was a total arse and deserves the book to be thrown at him. Unfortunately, some people are just idiots. You, like I, are being sensible. I understand what you mean about some being impatient. Am about to walk across a road, damn sure I'm waiting for it to be as safe as possible.

[@ASBO_LUTELY]

While we still have pelican crossings, zebra crossings and lollipop ladies I won't be crawling along on main roads at 20 poxy mph, especially with the inconsiderate belligerent poorly thought out way it was forced on us here in Wales. Lee Waters and Dribbling Drakeford should hang their heads in shame and revoke this pointless hostile law!

[@racingsnake9425]

Great content, thanks for taking the time. As someone who lives in Wales, I do have a question if you have the time to answer? As you're probably aware there is some resentment towards the 20mph limit in Wales, and that resentment has manifested itself in Wales' own version of the blade runners (though a 'little' less destructive). Quite a lot of the 20mph signs are having the number 2 sprayed over with black paint. My question is - is it still enforceable in that zone if the sign where you enter it isn't clearly identifiable? Many thanks.

[@terryhayward7905]

If everyone in the 20mph zone starts driving at a maximum of 10mph to stay well within the speed limit, the roads in the town centres will become parking lots. That should show how insane the new limits are very quickly.

[@raymondjennings6817]

I have noticed in London in the 20 mph zones people just walk out because they know you can stop in time and when one goes they all go

[@rthompson938]

Do Authorities really think that we are just plain dumb and need to be controlled in all ways possible. I thought the Chinese had it bad 😳

[@desdicadoric]

Chinese system coming our way soon

[@TheRip72]

Collectively we are plain dumb. Surely you learned that in the pandemic?

[@rosemarydudley9954]

WALES NEED A GROUP OF BLADE RUNNERS ... PAINT OVER THE 20 SIGNS AND REMOVE (HOWEVER NEC.) CAMERAS.

[@joeds3775]

you certainly are that dumb.

[@morry27jd24]

I’m from Scotland where 20 has been in use for some time, at least in the south east and borders. What’s happened effectively is people who drove at 35 in a 30 now drive at 25 in a 20 etc.

[@TheSpacecraftX]

I’m same as you in Scotland. It has made cycling feel safer. Because the speeding people are now coming by at 30 or less as opposed to 5 or more over. anecdotally also encourages less rushing to get to lights as they change. But cyclist safety is not a popular cause in most online spaces.

[@julzb7165]

Highlands c*ntcil had done recently to appease cyclists without any consideration for anyone else. This is going to make drivers less considerate towards cyclists and potentially cause an accident. We've spent millions on cyle paths that the self entitled prats on two wheels don't bother to use.

[@AnnFBug]

I live in Ed Davey land, so of course we have to move into this ahead of the pack; and car banning signs are appearing all around me as well, on the side roads. But I live on one of the few 30mph roads in the borough, and if I drive off to the adjoining county, I don't ever have to restrict my speedometer to 20mph. As that is the direction I most frequently use, I find I am already well into the 20mph zone before I notice any signage and just drive normally, for a bit. I could easily get fined for unintentionally breaking the new limit. But I guess that will be fine with the authorities - more dosh for them to spend on things of which I do not approve! Btw, Ed now says he disapproves of ULEZ. A more obvious example of insincere electioneering I could not hope to find.

[@sogley]

In practical terms, there is a leeway in the speed limit because speed cameras have tolerances. If a speed camera with a 10% tolerance registers a vehicle travelling at 30 mph, the vehicle might actually be travelling at anywhere between 27 mph and 33 mph. Because of the tolerance or inaccuracy of the speed cameras, a police force must allow a leeway so that it doesn't convict a motorist unfairly. We don't know what the tolerance is on speed cameras but we can be pretty sure it isn't zero.

[@denaco]

tech has come along way now so i can guess it might be as low as 1% on their calibrated cameras these days.

[@sogley]

@@denaco I seem to remember, as well as the speed camera tolerance, there used to be a specified accuracy for each vehicle's speed measurement mechanism. A vehicle must be able to measure speed within 10%, I think it was. Police forces would take that into account as well, I was told, although that might have been hearsay. Nevertheless, police forces have got used to the idea of a leeway. That leeway used to be quite large and they may be reluctant to change their practices even if the measuring device is much more accurate..

[@hypergamy5901]

Drop it to 10, then zero, then only very rich people, keep the proles off the road so the good and the great can go about their business without being inconvenienced by the poors

[@katbon15181]

The same will apply with flying. When all the airports are closed by 2039 but the extremely rich will still be flying around in their private jets. These speed reductions aren't just happening in the UK its global there's a long planned agenda to fulfil.

[@MephitisUK]

@@katbon15181 Really? A global agenda? You haven't noticed that half the world seems to be at odds with, if not fighting the other half for one reason or another? Or are you talking about some shadowy cabal that secretly pulls the strings of the rich and powerful of the world behind the scenes?

[@rainbowevil]

Could you please explain how a speed limit of 20 for everyone is targeted at the proles and enables the rich to drive how they like? Thanks.

[@katbon15181]

@@rainbowevil then they will decrease it again making it not viable or so totally frustrating to contemplate getting into a car. Apart from the fact it uses more fuel driving at such a ridiculous speed, all these changes are to 'drive' people from their cars and onto public transport, as we well know public transport is diabolical, unreliable and expensive and for many, off limits, for those who are disabled, have small children, who live in rural areas etc, this will force people to live in large towns/cities. People were surveyed by Tavistock Change Agents, before these speed reductions were made, asking questions such as, do you think a child is less likely to be killed by a car travelling at 30mph or 20mph. Of course, an extremely high percentage said 30mph, which is obvious but these results are all then assumed to then relate to 'the public all want 20mph speed limits everywhere'. That's how these rules and changes by councils are brought into force, there's a predicted outcome and the public is then steered towards that without their knowledge. These facilitators are trained in Neuro Linguistic programming and psychological subversion. They are also deeply programmed and will let nothing stand in their way. They use Saul Alinsky rules for radicals which means anything goes and anyone who disagrees is targeted and neutralised by others working with the facilitator.

[@rainbowevil]

@@katbon15181 none of those really address my question of how it makes driving the reserve of the rich though. If more people are using public transport, then those services could feasibly get cheaper and run more often, and would have a much greater chance of being prioritised for improvements due to the political penalty of ignoring them. Making it so most people would choose to use public transport over driving would have the benefit of making driving better for those who genuinely cannot use public transport for whatever reason, since there will be less traffic to contend with and other road users to have to navigate. Also since when could people with young children not use public transport? Disabled people also frequently have to rely on public transport, I expect a much higher proportion of disabled people don’t have access to a car than able-bodied people.