Are B&M's roller coasters getting worse?

[@AVdE10000]

I hope B&M never abandons their 4-across trains. Besides being super iconic, it also has a social aspect to it that 2-across trains just can't match, increases capacity and makes the track look way more impressive and intimidating given its massive width

[@tractorgt]

Interesting I've felt the exact opposite about their gigas. They just can't match feeling of speed of the Intamin 2 across. I also despise the clamshell restraints. The trains feel heavy and slow. Orion at our home park Kings Island is relatively boring, especially already having a better overall ride in diamondback.

[@cgm58]

@@tractorgtYes, I agree. I’ve been on Orion, and it’s not one of my favorite B&M’s. The layout isn’t the best, and the clamshells don’t help either like you said. I prefer Millenium Force at CP (home park).

[@AVdE10000]

@@tractorgt I think B&M's in general are just less forceful or aggressive than your average Intamin mega/giga, hence why they feel more gentle. As for the clamshell restraints, I adored them on Shambhala, and found them good enough on Silver Star. The seat arrangement on the former definitely adds to the comfort though. Haven't been on any of the American B&M's, though I'll make work of that at some point

[@jonny-b4954]

@@cgm58 Nah, the clamshells are fantastic. I've had no ride give me the ability to get the air time I get with a couple inch loose clamshell restraint.

[@cgm58]

@ I’ll agree, the clamshells do allow for some good airtime. I think I’m just used to the basic lap bar. I also feel like Orion’s layout doesn’t encourage lots of airtime. I will say I have done Mako at SW, and that is one of my favorites with clamshells.

[@jankoch267]

As for Voltron: I was at the press event and they told us they are testing different Wheel Materials and other variables on different ride vehicles to test comfort but also longterm reliability. Thats why some trains are quite rough but others are buttery smooth even on the outside seat.

[@amarug]

I did a PhD in mechanical engineering at ETH Zurich in Switzerland and some of my peers at our research institute went to work for B&M. I guess I should invite them for a beer and a "sit down"...

[@wickedsickfunkyfreshroller2037]

Tell them to get it together, I love B&M layouts but Iron Menace is not fun to ride

[@bdschannel4733]

You totally should. And then share their feedback with us.

[@Carter-nl2]

That Rapterra clip has caused so much debate in the coaster community lol

[@KingsDominionfan50]

When it really shouldn’t.

[@Galistia]

@KingsDominionfan50 It really should. You can see how bumpy the launch is just by looking at how wavey looking the tubes are. It's like they straightened the tubes by hand.

[@KingsDominionfan50]

@@Galistia looks like any other type of track by this company.

[@Carter-nl2]

@KingsDominionfan50 The kd glaze account is back

[@Galistia]

@KingsDominionfan50 You can literally see a difference with examples of straight track in this very video lol. Stop coping.

[@jonny-b4954]

I think the B&M rattle has to be simple, they raised their tolerances. Mack/Intamin and all them use/used to use 5mm or so tolerances. B&M used to be all within 1 mm manufacturing. They clearly got rid of that to be able to compete price wise. Likely after covid their major projects were likely approaching $40-50 million. So, they did what they had to do to cut costs. Maybe also in combination with cheaper steel. I think they've also lowered the weight of their trains or something. Maybe more give in their wheel boggies. Let's also be real, basically EVERY coaster has rattling, shuffling and minor jackhammering in high g-force areas. I notice it on essentially every single coaster I've ever been on.

[@ryancommenter-r7o]

this is the best take iv ever seen of “B&M is bad”

[@rct2nerd]

The tolerance theory makes sense. Orion at Kings Island and Candymonium at Hersheypark opened the same year, but Orion has a rattle while Candymonium doesn’t. We know that Hersheypark paid $150 million for the new entrance and roller coaster, and Kings Island paid $30 million for Orion. It’s possible that Candymonium is smoother than Orion because Hersheypark paid B&M more to make sure that the tolerances were smaller than what Kings Island paid for Orion because of their larger budget.

[@KingsDominionfan50]

Orion was glass smooth when I rode it.

[@Coastercapitalusa]

In like 2021 and 2022 it had a rattle but when I went for haunt it was smooth and it was smooth in 2023. So they fixed something

[@Darkage-io4sl]

Yeah I rode Orion last year and it was smooth then as well. I never really got why people thought it was rough but they must've changed something like people said.

[@scottyale2931]

I wonder if the trains aren't made well. I went on Iron Menace twice. Once it rattled bad, and the second time was smooth.

[@DoomPlague]

KI is my home park and I usually ride Orion 3-5 times per visit and its always glass smooth. So I never understood the claims that it has a rattle. Banshee, on the other hand, is a completely different story.

[@DrCranberry]

As a machinist, it should be noted that decreasing a tolerance would NOT effect quality of the material being made. I.E Steel is still Steel even if i'm machining a part with .0001 mm tolerance, or a part with .05 tolerance. What most likely has happened could be out sourcing. Many manufacturers will outsource their designs and parts to other shops that are better equipped to handle it. A good example is the scene from Batman Begins where Alfred says, "Problem with the graphite, the NEXT 10,000 will be in specifications". Basically one company could have made a couple THOUSAND of specific parts, and messed them up. Well, now you either have to USE the part, OR the manufacturer has to back pay for lost time and quality if it's even in the contract. So my guess is, they did a bunch of testing on the sub-par parts and found there wasnt any other stresses/safety concerns on the train itself to warrant remanufacturing a couple hundred thousand parts so they rolled with it which is VERY common in the manufacturing world.

[@billkeithchannel]

The reason Japanese machinery is longer lasting with less vibration is not in the tolerances. They discovered a way to keep the tolerances nominal but implement a part documentation process that is less expensive but results in parts being extremely close to the same measurement over an entire lot. Same tolerance, but better consistency. Holding tight tolerance is stressful on the machinist and reduces productivity. But taking a measurement of a part at specific intervals and recording the data lets the machinist see trouble in the tooling early to correct it before the entire tolerances range is utilized. This is less stressful and increases productivity.

[@nightwoo_]

Dont know, but umm waiting for top thrill 3, reimagined by Togo

[@coasterbot]

Hell yeah

[@Spike-sk7ql]

Now just hang on a sec. They might get Top Thrill 2.5 out nest season.

[@DanTheCaptain]

A stand-up Togo TT is terrifying!

[@iliketrains3546]

@@nightwoo_ and then TT4 made by Jinma

[@nanderv]

Imagine that top hat with a standup train tho

[@AG7-MTM]

Hey, what about Gerstlauer's eurofighter & infinity trains? Those are wide 4-across trains too!

[@coasterbot]

I was going to write that point into the script, but then I thought those Gerstlauers aren't exactly known for their smoothness either!

[@leeriffee4606]

There is also Skyrush at Hershey and its near twin in the middle east. And yes, the outer seats on Skyrush can give a pretty rough ride, especially towards the back.

[@thisisjustanchannel]

Yeah, ive said this once and ill say it again, ive done madrill mayhen and nemesis inferno enough times to tell you that new b and m is pretty 'rough' HOWEVER, from what i can tell, they are still hella realiable, as ive never seen mandrill mayhem gone down.

[@JazzManhattan]

Thorpe Park is my local and nemesis inferno seems to have a lot of down time

[@Q4Coasters]

Nemesis inferno isn’t new its from 2003

[@thisisjustanchannel]

@JazzManhattan yeah it seems as they are even more reliable

[@iliketrains3546]

@thisisjustanchannel I’ve seen mandrill Mayhem valley before. Don’t even ask me how it happened lol

[@Q4Coasters]

@ me too, it was just cold it happens! Not an issue on that coaster as it can just be launched back and forth its programmed to do that

[@GeeVanderplas]

The solution is simple, every park installs an SLC and makes guests ride it first. Everything will feel glass smooth after that!

[@coasterbot]

Uh oh

[@thomaspower9351]

On nemesis reborn, one train is butter smooth and perfect, the other is rough (not just a faint rattle) to the point it bashes your head and I very often hear non-enthusiasts complaining

[@Yonel6969]

Apparently the wheels are different. Like the roar it makes sounds different depending the train. Im prpbably wrong but it sounds louder on one train

[@jack123-l6d]

You do not get head banging on reborn

[@MGMutt]

Neither are rough or smooth dependably, It seems to vary day to day

[@wickedsickfunkyfreshroller2037]

Its crazy that there are 25 year old B&Ms that are still glossy smooth, and for some reason they changed their design and most of their new coasters are rough.

[@tjmartinez1505]

POV: Montu and Phoenix rising

[@JuddsonPlayz]

Yea I rode penguin trek made by B&M at sea world and it has so much rattle

[@Thermo-certified-trash]

B&M rattles and rough are not the same thing, new b&m’s are barely rough

[@JuddsonPlayz]

@ the new ones rattle

[@Thermo-certified-trash]

@@JuddsonPlayz ik, but the thing is that the rattle isn’t even bad.

[@TheBroz]

I went to Florida a couple of months ago and rode everything at Busch and SeaWorld. The rattle of Phoenix Rising, Penguin Trek and Pipeline was palpable. Considering how much I adore most of the other B&Ms at those parks it’s deeply disappointing.

[@coasterbot]

That's interesting to hear! It'll be interesting to see if newer B&M family coasters have the same problems

[@ritainez10]

I rode Pipeline in 2023 and I don't remember it being problematic. Maybe I got it on a good day. But I'm sad about what I've been hearing about Phoenix Rising and I hope they fix it for Wolf's Revenge.

[@OklahomaCoasterFan]

I was noticing that too on my Florida trip in November. The other B&Ms were riding so smooth, but the 3 new ones were rough. Pipeline actually felt quite a bit rougher a year prior. I still enjoyed the new family coasters, but they would have been so much better if they rode like the older B&Ms.

[@rogerabc6880]

I don't have enough ride experience to notice any rattle on Penguin Trek, Phoenix Rising or Pipeline, but I was really impressed how Montu was smooth, no jolts, no head banging. Kumba was closed.

[@Matthew-dd6kp]

Pipeline is rough, and the design is mid... b&m really needs to focus on making rides less painful to ride...

[@KingdaToro]

Iron Menace feels like they used autocomplete to finish the layout

[@AnotherSwissYoutubeUser]

I just rode Voltron, middle seats are PERFECTLY SMOOTH, it's only the outside seats that are SLIGHTLY BUMPY.

[@acowwithlegs]

That would make sense because they aren’t being supported from directly below by chasis

[@luizaferrari]

It depends on the train. Some of them are rough anywhere you seat - believe me, I have ridden a few times and had some terrible experiences along the way (and some great ones too)

[@Nobodyisperfect-us6pk]

Why the hell my post was censored by KZbin? So post again: For Mack Rides; the Stryker coasters are prototypes and it is not an issue with the track, it is an issue with the (Late EDIT: Trains not coasters), which do still not work as expected. But they know, what is wrong, also as combination of different factors, in fist case the temperature and the load factor. One of the trains (I think train 6 of the 7) was driving with a full sensor/test pack and was regular used for tests, new/further developed parts, other wheels, winter wheels e.g. And as "Patrick Marx", the main designer and responsible for the Voltron coaster project, has confirmed during a fan meeting in last weeks, they are aware, they will fix it during the 2 month off-season, starting in few days. And if this will not work as expected, they have an "ace, that will always work". So it shall be fixed soon. And for Hyperia, one of the trains was brought back to Germany to fix it.

[@sHiNjEeK]

Voltron is fixed, they'll make the adjustement on other trains in winter off season

[@Yonel6969]

When was hyperias train sent back? was it over winter i assume?

[@Nobodyisperfect-us6pk]

@@Yonel6969 No, already during the season. The second train, Hyperia was running for minimum one month with only one train.

[@Nobodyisperfect-us6pk]

@@sHiNjEeK We will have to see, if this will work as expected or if additional work will have to be done. I hope, it will be by minimum so far optimized, that it will be fully acceptable during the next season or will be fully optimized on all trains during the next one. The changes are now done during winter, the rattle issue is also depending on the temperature as one of the major two reasons for the rattle. We will have to see, how good the changes/modifications will work during the very hot summer times.

[@sHiNjEeK]

@@Nobodyisperfect-us6pk it is fixed tho, the adjustment has been made on one or two trains already. all the other ones will follow through, when you sit on train 6 - 4 its buttery smooth

[@EmberMcLain87]

haven't done any new B&M coasters yet, and I won't be able to till 2026 when I can ride the new big bad wolf coaster. but yea it's rough hearing from a lot of people on here the new B&M coasters either have a slight rattle to them or have a sudden jolt at some point during the ride.

[@CZsWorld]

It would be concerning if the trains are the issue because that means the parks will likely have to spend money on new training in the future. Could be a lawsuit there.

[@jaydenchrist6152]

Hope B&M turns it around soon. Their new coasters arent bad though.

[@coasterbot]

I agree, they look fun!

[@arturobianco848]

Biggest one i did was dr diabalico it was fine. Yeah it had a slight rattle that would give a headache after about 15 rides so as long as you do 10 and then do a break you are fine. Or just sit in the middle no problem then.

[@AaronTheAdventurous]

It might have something to do with the train. Look at Phoenix Rising’s train vs a Vekoma Suspended Family Coaster train: B&M uses a central inverted T-shaped column that holds both seats and connects to the chassis under the track. Vekoma on the other hand uses a single column for each seat and has shock absorbers attached diagonally. The seats therefore can swing slightly to each side, whereas they are fixed in place with B&M's design. That makes a change, doesn’t it? To further add to the train design theory, look at Mack Launch Coaster trains. Every one except Hyperia uses a Y-shaped column to support the seats. On Hyperia this has changed, as a cross shaped structure has been added between both seats and the column is now more a half circle than Y-shaped. In the Voltron Documentary the designer said that the cross structure was added to the outside seat to have better support and make it smoother, so the same thought has obviously been applied to Hyperia. According to this Video, both Mack coasters have a rattle (I haven’t been on both, so I can’t judge that from own experience), but feature an updated train design. What does this mean though? A single centre attachment for two seats is resulting in a rougher ride than one attachment for each seat with shock absorbers. Additionally Mack has noticed this and has strengthened their train design by adding a cross structure. Vekoma however has eliminated the issue by a clever design. This train theory doesn’t translate to wing coasters though, so there are other factors involved too. It is a pretty profound problem at this point.

[@tosspot1305]

The 'new normal'. Quality and quantity goes down drastically while prices shoot sky high. It's happening across every sector including food and energy. It's nothing more than corporate gouging. Greed comes at a price....that we have to pay.

[@RogueDawson17]

1:40 "penguin shrek" I'm sorry, you won't be able to unhear it or unsee it 😂

[@coasterbot]

Who doesn't love Shrek 🥹

[@YellowPhoenixDE]

I missed in the video a mention about Gerstlauer, as they also offers 4 persons per row with their Eurofighter and Infinity Coasters

[@coasterbot]

Correct, they do, but Gerstlauer aren't known for their smoothness either. I absolutely love their rides but is the general consensus

[@Lukas_Kramer_Photography]

That last shot of Shambhala and Dragon Khan was simply beautiful

[@coasterbot]

💯

[@theballingboi5360]

I would say that the trains are likely not the issue. Looking at that launch video of Rapterra, you can clearly see how uneven the rails themselves on the track are. The seats all bounce going over the same spot. The jolt on Iron Menace is also like that, it happens for each row individually as it goes through the section of rail. I would certainly say the manufacturing of the track is the issue. The idea of parks asking for cheaper B&Ms also doesn't make much sense to me considering how many coasters Mack is selling recently, same with Intamins. If a park is looking for a cheaper option, it would make more sense to go with Vekoma or Zamperla, so I don't think B&M would try competing with that market.

[@michaelcallander7085]

The bounce on The Swarm and Mandrill made so much more sense since I realised it was to do with the increased distance we're sitting from the track, amplifying any vibrations.

[@futureandevolution8315]

5:42 This whole video went from 0 to 100 really damn quick

[@coasterbot]

Ha ha sorry 😐

[@ndelli23]

Great video and great topic! I don’t think B&M deserve the patience for figuring out family coasters. They have done the family suspended model before and have done the elongated trains for their hypers with narrower seating. Candymonium is the only coaster that I’ve ridden from them post-2020 that is as butter smooth as their earlier installations. I wouldn’t be surprised if Hershey shelled out extra $ to ensure a higher quality ride. Likewise, I wouldn’t be surprised if the chain parks that have purchased recent B&Ms have opted to save money at the cost of quality.

[@LyndsieDances]

What opens first, what opens last top thrill 2.5, falcons flight, sirens curse or wrath of raksasha

[@brandoncole5533]

1. Sirens curse 2. Wrath of Rakshasa 3. Top thrill 2.5 4. Falcons flight

[@billkeithchannel]

The reason Japanese machinery is longer lasting with less vibration is not in the tolerances. They discovered a way to keep the tolerances nominal but implement a part documentation process that is less expensive but results in parts being extremely close to the same measurement over an entire lot. Same tolerance, but better consistency.

[@Q4Coasters]

I know you said you had no engineering knowledge but the way this video was formatted and explained you would have me in disbelief haha! B&M is still my favourite coaster manufacturer and while it is a shame to see their quality change, its annoying that everyone is focusing on it so harshly when other coasters have had similar issues of worse for a long time, I really hope they succeed as they have some of the most interesting ride types out there

[@coasterbot]

I'm a data analyst by trade, it's all telling a story based on the data you're given! I'm glad you enjoyed the video too! B&M are still top in other categories, especially reliability. Smoothness aside, their rides continue to seem more reliable than others.

[@CoastersCities]

Just wondering... does maintenance have anything to do with rides getting rougher over time? What about ground/soil shifts?

[@Duuhvis]

When I went on Fury 5 years ago, I had an amazing night ride on it. We went back the next day and experienced the worst rattle I’ve ever experienced on a B&M. 3 rides in I had to deal with a migraine for the rest of the day at Carowinds. I have no idea what caused it as I rode it the night prior and it was very smooth.

[@coasterbot]

I rode Fury 325 last year and found it to be incredibly smooth for the speed it goes!

[@arturobianco848]

Could just be a bad wheel that needs replacing.

[@benrockstar574]

When I have ridden it voltron ir was very smooth and I loved the ride after I came out I was runners high and thought that the waiting of 90 minutes was deserved

[@TehEpicDev]

I feel like another reason these newer gen B&Ms are also rougher because of their track being way smaller. Correct me if I'm wrong since I haven't seen these irl, but I feel like its gotta do with the amount of vibration or something. I might be onto nothing so lmk

[@cgm58]

I will say, I don’t mind B&M’s inverts. I remember riding Dueling Dragons at UO, and I liked that ride. I’ve also been on Raptor and Montu). I think Montu’s my favorite because of the pace/intensity. It’s been 2 years since I’ve been on it, but I still remember the experience! I’ve also done Raptor and Valravn at my home park. The final brake run on Raptor is the only rough part for me. Valravn did seem to have a shake from what I remember. Banshee is good as well. I don’t remember a shake on Banshee. The first drop is one the best for me though.

[@tjmartinez1505]

Prove me right or wrong opinion: Phoenix Rising is already rougher than Montu Context: I rode both today and phoenix rising already has a SEVERE rattle and is rough.

[@rossh688]

Phoenix Rising made me nauseous.

[@tjmartinez1505]

@ oof. I feel bad for you it wasn’t that bad for me. Looking to see if sheikra was running while riding Serengeti flyer made me nauseous(totally my fault)

[@iliketrains3546]

11:20 not to mention Guerstlauer’s eurofighters and infinities which are both know for being pretty rough with 4 across trains

[@tractorgt]

I'd look into interviewing a cedar fair ride inspection employee (yes I know it's six flags now, but you'd want them to be from a cedar fair park because of their maintenance standards). They notoriously disassemble and rebuild all trains from all coasters in their off seasons. Probably have some insight from year to year as to what might have happened. My buddy is the maintenance guy for Kentucky rumbler but not a b&m. But he'd talk to me about it, so I wouldn't see you having a problem getting an interview about maintenance.

[@JRS06]

I wouldn't want B&M to go bust or stop making coasters. They made my two favourite rides at Alton Towers after all (Oblivion and Nemesis: Reborn). Of those two, Oblivion is still fairly smooth, albeit it's a lot rougher if you do sit on the middle of the back row. I can't remember Nemesis: Reborn well enough, but I hear people say the original was a lot smoother. Maybe new B&M coasters just need time to get smoother and better adjusted to running? I'm no expert though, so I can only guess.

[@Yonel6969]

People saying the original was smoother are wrong. It wasnt rattley like reborn is so on its opening year it was 1000% smoother. But on its final 5 years it was very headbangy which imo reborn has none of. what people find smooth and rough is different. people find the smiler smooth, others find it rough as hell

[@ExTraxYz]

It's simple, if you want guaranteed smoothness you have Vekoma and RMC as your only two options. Maybe Intamin as long as it's not their 4-seater (Hyperion is a headache). But there's just no excuse for brand new B&M's and Mack rides to be this rough or rattly.

[@JonnyUlasien]

Patriot at Worlds of Fun suddenly developed a bad rattle in the 2023 season after 15 years of being glass smooth. I can't imagine any other explanation than replacing the wheel assemblies with cheaper parts in the off season.

[@kingscoasters]

hey harry, just a quick question. what camera do you use for your footage! just curious! :))

[@MrKevster24]

My experience with the B&M rattle, I usually chalked up to the rides aging less gracefully than other manufacturers or being poorly maintained by the parks and/or featuring outdated restraints. My home park is Magic Mountain and I didn't have the best opinion of B&M until I visited legacy Cedar Fair parks. Still prefer Intamin & RMC. If the new ones are getting the rattle this could be a big issue going forward.

[@SeanJohnson-v8v]

I feel the rattle is so small honestly. but its weird that this is on brand new rides like penguin trek.

[@coasterbot]

I agree, on the older rides it makes zero difference.

[@chrissharratt8042]

The tolerance theory is the most likely reason. The original cost of Nemesis was £8M and Reborn’s total project cost was £10M. So close in price without taking into account over 3 decades of inflation! I don’t mind a little rattle as long as it’s stays that way - Icon is a great example of a small rattle staying just that. I have to say, my two rides on Hyperia were absolutely awful and I left early due to a headache from my body being thrown about.

[@screamingeekmedia]

Yeah, that clip of Rapterra looks concerning. I will say that when it comes to roughness, there are so many factors to take into consideration. The trains. Each train can give you a different experience. Which car of the train, weather, and also the amount of guests on the train. I noticed that last one when riding Hydra at Dorney Park. Early morning rides when train was half-empty and shook more and I felt more head-banging. Once the trains were full, it felt much smoother. ANother thing I noticed on Veloma SLC's were the train length. Back when they were new, I rode Hangman (Opryland) and T2 (Kentucky Kingdom) back to back. Identical rides and layouts. But T2 was much rougher than Hangman. The difference was that Hangman had longer trains (10 cars) than T2 (7 cars).

[@IxBl4ckH4rtxI]

working at CSF, if you know you know, what i think is happening is newer "engineers" coming up with different ideas than the older generation whose no longer with us. these changes have begun some sort of butterfly effect. it practically hurts seeing how all the negativity rising

[@alainafernando140]

I’ve always been an intamin fan but I love my b&ms too and I would hate to see the quality go down as they are such good rides! I would love to see more branching out to different companies too from parks like gerstlauer or s&s. I feel like the dive coasters are starting to get a tad played out I would love to see some gigas come back or even one day an intamin blitz 🙏🙏

[@MattMcIrvin]

The B&Ms I've actually ridden are all older ones, so I don't have an opinion about recent changes from personal experience. I haven't experienced the "B&M rattle" on those older rides though I know people have complained about it to some degree for many years. I do know that personal assessments of roughness can be strange. There are several coasters I have always found either smooth or tolerable which other people describe as the roughest boneshaker they've ever ridden (wooden coasters especially). And others where my rides seemed to be rife with jackhammering and other enthusiasts don't seem to have a problem.

[@bocahdongo7769]

TBH the problem isn't merely newer B&M is more shaky But newer Vekoma is somehow smoother than them

[@arturobianco848]

It sort of depends how your spine can handle things and other fysicale aspects. Also how to tense up the right way so you are still loose on where its importend. I for one have a fused lower back so certain blows and jackhammering are incredable painfull. While i don't have any problems with even a rough SLC (not that i like them, the rough ones).

[@MattMcIrvin]

@@arturobianco848 I think I'm far more tolerant than the average person of janky transitions on rides with over-the-shoulder restraints, like Gerstlauers and old Arrows, just because I'm a medium-tall person (5'11", 180 cm), just about the exact size that coaster manufacturers tend to build the restraints for. If I were several inches shorter, I'd be banging my head on these rides. And how you ride probably makes a difference too. I tend to put my head forward a bit which helps prevent headbanging on OTSR loopers, but that can also leave you dizzy. I rode Dragon Khan and thought it was smooth, but so intense that I needed to sit down for a while after. If I'd kept my head back, I might have had less vertigo after at the cost of more risk of headbanging.

[@arturobianco848]

@@MattMcIrvin Well i usuualy just press me head to one side. Unless it's really janky then you need to put it forward. It's just me back thats a bit off so certaine kinds of jackhammering or certaine blows to the lower spine are a bit of a nono for me.

[@coasterblocks3420]

I think parks are spending too much on theming in what is essentially just a station building, maintenance facility and glorified cattle pen. And parks get dazzled by gimmicky ideas offered by manufacturers like “world’s first inclined turntable” (a low speed switch track as it turns out) on Jungle Rush at Dreamworld. Urgh! It interrupts the ride experience, cuts a short ride into two very short rides all to give a sub-par dark ride moment. And they had to construct an enormous highly themed but ultimately pointless structure just to accomodate the turntable. This new Vekoma also is not particularly smooth. This ultimately takes funds away from the ride itself. I want a great ride experience, the longer the better. The station and queue just needs to be comfortable, aesthetically pleasing, efficient, with good landscaping - an effective theming tool in itself, ending in a minimal structure. Ultimately, I’m there for the rides, not the queue-line.

[@arturobianco848]

You might want that. Lots of people don't and like the theming better. For me i rather have a good short ride then a long pretty boring one. Ofcourse i love long good and well themed one. But yes those are expensive.

[@jayducharme]

I wonder if there's any connection with Claude Mabillard leaving the company and the perceived reduction in quality. Also, a coaster's design has a lot to do with its perceived smoothness. For a long time B&M worked with Werner Stengel. But Stengel is now retired (though his company continues).

[@diarmaidmoloney5611]

Monster in Stockholm is probably the last glass smooth B& M

[@lightningboat]

Mako, Candymonium and Pipeline are great

[@llocker49]

I rode penguin trek for the first time a month ago and I was shocked that a new steel coaster in Orlando was so rough, especially a B&M.

[@SunnylandProds]

My mom commented on how rough Penguin Trek is, and she’s not even a coaster enthusiast.

[@kenfrancisworld8720]

Glad you brought up X2. Such a good example.

[@guidoheeling1179]

i think some amount of roughness is to be expected and even wanted. If a coaster is to smooth it is not fearsome anymore. It should not be a discomforth tho..

[@crazy4wavescoasters741]

Pipeline may be the only smooth new B&M coaster. The most recent B&M coaster that I've ridden are Banshee, Fury 325, Valravn and Pipeline. I felt that Banshee and Valravn were kinda rough.

[@lachlanjenkin1659]

I guess it’s arrow dynamics getting there revenge on b&m after putting them out of business

[@coasterbot]

😂

[@lachlanjenkin1659]

@ or arrows spirit at least

[@ryantheridemechanic]

Great video as usual!

[@coasterbot]

Hey Ryan thanks for the very kind words. Your videos are awesome too! Out of curiosity, would you ever be interested in doing some form of collab? You obviously have a huge amount of knowledge and I think it would be awesome to get that in front of as many people as possible!

[@GaComicsnMore]

Even with minor shaking still better than most others.

[@TheRyanjones]

I still think the Rapterra thing is because it was 35 degrees when that video was shot.

[@KingsDominionfan50]

That makes sense as well

[@stevemac2009]

I hear talk of the B&M rattle, but I’ve never experienced it. Even when others say they have on the same ride I just don’t notice it. I have experienced some headbanging, most noticeable on my recent trip to CP on Rougarou and Raptor.

[@coasterbot]

I agree, on the older rides the B&M rattle is often non-existent or if it there, makes no real difference to the ride experience,

[@Jeff321]

I rode Orion shortly after it opened and the rattle was bad. A brand new steel coaster should be much smoother than that. I am worried about Wrath of Rakshasa.

[@coasterbot]

Orion seemed okay to me last year, the only problem section was the helix really

[@arturobianco848]

Rode Orion this Year it was fine just a bit of boring coaster for its stats but it was smooth.

[@solo.digital.gaming]

I HATE how they have seemingly abandoned intensity and snappy transitions, in favor of graceful floaty transitions. Crazy to think the rattle is getting WORSE given the layouts are becoming more tame!?

[@mythicgamingmk1105]

B&M makes great coasters but they need to fix their rattle problem but most of there coasters are glass smooth and i hope they make more Hypers and other types like wing and dive

[@karlrobinson4887]

You failed to factor in the contractor who actually assembles and installs the rides. B7M ships the coasters out as kits with blueprints and instructions. Local steel fabricators are hired to assemble them. Their craftsmanship plays a big part in the quality of the finished product.

[@joshl9328]

Thats not really relevant as all new B&Ms have the rattle and they would have all been build by different contractors.

[@kimann6936]

Ryan the ride Mechanic did a good video about this (titled b&m shake) He has mechanical knowledge/experience, and presents good theories on what's going on.

[@maxhagenauer24]

B&M is to roller coaster manufacturers like Caterpillar is to construction tractor vehicles, they are of the most expensive but also the most reliable. It's teally sad to see how their smoothness fell off abd your theory with tolerances may be true. I'm no engineer but even the thickness of the track being slightly different can cause issues with roughness like this. The price of steel has gone up more and more over the years, I wonder if they cit back on that as well then.

[@michaelcarter8020]

I don’t mind roughness and shakiness along as the ride has intensity. Outside of their inverted coaster B&M seems to lack intensity.

[@Saltinator]

Older B&M's are definitely more intense. It seems the older they get the more intense they are.

[@gerarddip]

Yeah, I feel like they used to be much snappier and featured more verticality, especially with the inversions. Alpengeist is still a contender for my #1 favorite

[@richardperhai8292]

Even the retrack of the Hulk at IOA ended up roughjer than the original at opening

[@Saltinator]

I'm thinking they cheaped out on Iron Menace (because it was built in a lower mid-tier park) and B&M didn't build the ride to the standard tolerances they typically build their rides to. For me though, a little shake and rattle adds to the ride. Headbanging is a different story. You get what you pay for.

[@Brandon-qd2lb]

Huh?? Cedar fair has tons of money to spend and it’s a very short layout.

[@GeForce_Productions]

coaster bot just dropped 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥

[@Hieagandaus]

It’s not even the rattle it’s their lack of innovation in their layouts. B&M either focuses on airtime hyper coasters or inversion driven wing and dive coasters. It’s like they’re scared to replicate what makes RMC, Intamin, and now Vekoma rides so much fun.

[@TheBatwave]

Maximus - Der Flug des Wächters is new and that’s rough too

[@BassGuitarSlide]

Totally agree - plus: its layout is so bland and poorly paced that even considering it as a family ride, it is so boring. Add the constant bouncing and shuffling as well as slow dispatches and you have one of the worst new coasters from the last years - what a shame :(

[@Spike-sk7ql]

Could it POSSIBLY be that the cost to manufacture track with such tight tolerances would be so astronomically high, that, in order to still be able to sell their coasters, they had to cut manufacturing costs, to make up for the price of steel going up? Like, I heard KI spent nearly as much on Orion, as Carowinds spent on Fury. Could it be that the parks just wouldn't be able to pay for a coaster of old B&M standards?

[@spentron1]

Loss of expertise during COVID is likely. That seems the defining time line. Also mini-dives etc. are a smaller track intended for max. 6 wide and those heavy vests magnify issues.

[@StepsOfStPhilips]

I didn’t find Dr Diabolical’s rattly. I enjoyed it but don’t really get dive coasters that don’t plunge into pits. The B&M Superman at Fiesta was the worst B&M I’ve ever been on. It was so rattly that it gave me a headache. Which meant I had to go and couldn’t have a third ride on Iron Rattler, which was a walk on.

[@MrStormStep]

Note: the reason why the track makes an echo is because they use another different type of item to make the track (leading to the downfall of B&M)

[@lukeotter898]

I promise you this is the sand filled track. Nemesis Reborn has the exact same trains as before, the only difference is the sand filled track! The sand acts as a massive damper and increases the shudder on the train wheel assemblies between contact of the rails.

[@coasterbot]

B&M has been filling rides with sand for a while at this point. I'm pretty sure Leviathan, the B&M Giga built in 2012, has sand in it. Perhaps it's making the situation worse, but given the distinctive change there must be something else at play too.

Budget cuts and outsourcing. Parks are no longer willing to pay $50mil for a new coaster.

[@samuelzackrisson8865]

jinma ride's drop coaster copy is only 6 wide so you do make a point there

[@SpiderWaffle]

10:10 This is such low quality track. Buyer's surely are eager to pay a little more upfront to get the track reasonably smooth, straighter than this crap. It will reduce maintenance costs significantly and probably save them money over a 10 year period. Not to mention keep guests much more satisfied with their rides and park experience. Why would anyone want to spend more money to get a much worse product?

[@KingsDominionfan50]

Very nitpicky

[@Yonel6969]

The track is straight. Older b&m track looks like this. Modern intamin too

[@brianmacdonald7297]

I'd like to say this is just internet criticism blowing a small issue out of proportion...but I rode Iron Menace on passholder preview day, before hearing any other opinions of it, and I can't deny that jolt near the end that everybody talks about. If the problem is in the trains, that gives me hope, since the trains are rebuilt every year, and fully replaced periodically. Perhaps we can look forward to higher-tolerance B&M trains before too long.

[@TMACOHIO]

B&M are nice and reliable but I rather go to a park with every different manufacturer than a park with 5 b&ms

[@Brandon-qd2lb]

Damn Hyperion has a rattle?? How bad is it? Could there be a lawsuit if the park isn’t happy with the rides roughness already?

[@Neptune5111.1]

it's probably whoever they work with they need to change who they work with

[@TrueLies23]

The track is still made to the same tolerance, better than the competition by over a milimeter, and looser track tolerances wouldn't equal savings the way the track is made, so it almost certainly is the trains.

[@KingsDominionfan50]

The whole Rapterra thing has been blown out of proportion. People are out here acting like the launch is going to ruin the ride or something but it won’t. This ride will be a huge success for Kings Dominion rattle or not.

[@Brandon-qd2lb]

We’re all gonna find out eventually… I ain’t holding anything out with it based on their recent track record!

[@ThousanWhite]

Again, no. Their reputation has simply been overstated. A lot of their coasters were rough and uncomfortable decades ago, which is several of them have already been retracked, moved and converted into new designs. This also isn't unique to B&M. I think this is a classic case of cherry-picking as some of their SPECIFIC models are usually consistent and smooth like their sitdowns and hyper coasters. However their inverts, stand ups, floorless, and dive coasters have ALWAYS been a little rattly, aggressive, and sprinkled with a few potholes. I would argue that it’s because of their wide diversity of coasters that it’s easy to falsely pick and choose.

[@MrCliffda3rd]

For now Kumba's fate is unknown, possably sealed due to the sinkhole that opened up in one of the ponds behind her, effecting the concrete supports. Same going with Congo river rapids.

[@Brandon-qd2lb]

That’s no where near the ride lmao

[@MrCliffda3rd]

@Brandon-qd2lb from what I read but yeah lol.

[@CarolinaCycloneJames]

There seems to be a difference between Mack rides in Europe and Macl rides in the US. Every Mack ive been on has rattled and seemed to have pivoting issues. Especially copperhead strike. O havent heard of many of those issues overseas

[@Casas-Brawl.]

I rode helix and the Big Dipper in walibi Holland and they are not the roughest coasters but they are very shaiky

[@Yonel6969]

Possibly. But recent macks have those issues. Voltron. Hyperia is weird, it gained a big shake later on.

[@CarolinaCycloneJames]

@@Yonel6969 from what I heard. I believe its because most of the trains use the same axle design as Arrows trains. Where they can't pivot independently so it leads to axle hunt. But I don't fully believe that because unless they using the cheapest method possible no company should use that axle design

[@techpappee]

I don’t consider it a blip if every single new coaster they’ve produced for the last several years is like this. I watch a lot of park and ride reviews and they are all like this. At least the last two years they have been. That literal jerking to the side (coaster studios) shown has nothing to do with wheel assembly. The track itself is literally off. It’s has the in it’s layout. You can visibly see it.

[@floridamaddogg]

I would argue about pipeline. Really no bad rattle in it and and rattle you get is in the very back, but is more contributed to the restraints. You can visibly see it, but it's not bad at all. I do feel the rattle in penguin trek, but it's fine.

[@SunnylandProds]

yeah, Pipeline is awesome, I don’t have a problem with Pipeline. Penguin Trek’s rattle puts me off of the whole ride, though.

[@JungleJetAviation06]

I rode Scream at SFMM about a week ago and MY GOD it was AWFUL, and this is coming from someone who’s favorite coasters are B&Ms. But I think it’s the old trains and why MM hasn’t bought new ones from B&M I’ll never know…

[@reddcube]

A little shaking doesn't mean B&M has lost its quality. For example X-Flight has always shaken a little (especially during the in-line twist), and that a coaster from 2012. The theory that tolerances have changed in order to provide cheaper rides is always true, Engineering is about making compromises to deliver a quality final product in a reasonable timeframe and budget. Amusement Park always want to save money when buying new rides. But they also return to B&M because the rides are safe, high capacity, and thrilling.

[@KingsDominionfan50]

Might wanna tell that to galistia

[@daanbos5918]

Those complaining that about a less than butter smooth ride have never been on a proper wooden coaster such as Joris en de Draak in the Efteling

[@Yonel6969]

thing is you expect a woodie to be rough. b&m since forever was almost butter smooth. that decline in quality is well noticable

[@ballbag]

Any coaster looks shaky when viewed with that depth of field

[@coasterbot]

100%

[@camikelly2356]

Good video, Harry! That was very informative. Now it makes sense why B&M coasters have gotten slightly shakier. I haven’t yet experienced any of the newer coasters, so I wouldn’t have known they had this issue unless I heard from other enthusiasts.

[@jordyvelthuizen5766]

I think it also ecological changes pollution regulations so they dont use vergin steel maby they use re-used steel or recycled steel and the more margens for coaster cars what is in the video