Are Budget DCC Decoders Worth It?

I've recently discovered how much better a premium decoder can be compared to some cheaper alternatives. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this one as there are so many decoders out there...

[@GreyTheFloydianSergal]

when I did DCC years back, I only had eight pins & I used the cheap bachy ones that cost about £10 a pop. They were really good. Even the ability to change the acceleration speed to a speed so slow it makes my Fiesta seem sporty

[@EverardJunction]

I have some Bachmann 8 pin decoders on the layout, so far they have been great and very well priced.

[@austinyingst5902]

The results are most encouraging. I am launching into a program of retrofitting an entire fleet. I'm feeling better about it already. Thanks.

[@paulm3965]

Second comment, Update: I have have fitted the Lenz decoder as recommended to several colleague loco's from our club. All I can say is top marks, the decoders work perfectly. I will only fit the Lenz decoder when requested in future. So glad that you will have your layout published, I look forward to it. Great video, your name came up in the Backmann hospitality suite at Alley Pally, especially Episode 19 Auto signalling. Informative, helpful.

[@welshpete12]

Knowing nothing of this field of expertise, I find it amazing technology !

[@michaelcudby787]

I have been using Lenz decoders for some time,but recently,have had trouble locating any.When I have located the odd one,theyr really pricey,so have found others to use.

[@Theodorep97]

I have had the Hornby basic 8 pin decoders for around 5 years and have experienced all these issues but I assumed they were an issue with my track or controller. It makes my locos very jittery, they often ignore the emergency stop or take 5 seconds to respond, and regularly lose their address. I need to test a better decoder!! Thank you for bringing this issue up.

[@freightuk]

Thank you for sharing your experience. So far I have only chipped 2 loco's whilst building my layout purely for testing the layout wiring, I opted for a Lenz system because it gave me the facilities I required. This was just over a year ago and as it is my first attempt at using DCC I decided to play safe and use Lenz decoders in my 'track testing' locos. I have not yet tried any other decoder brands as yet but intend to chip a qty of Triang, Hornby Dublo, Hornby, Airfix and Mainline locos. The cost will have to be spread over a period of time as the total cost of the decoders will be significant, so I have been searching the web for comparative information and rarely see positive forum posts on low priced decoders. So this review of yours has come at a very good time for me and as I follow your videos regularly I take your review and discussion seriously, what it comes down to is that you only get what you pay for (if you are lucky ;) ). Most of my locos have cost nothing like £80, except for those bought new in the 70's (when £20+ for a Wrenn was ££) so Lenz decoders can cost nearly as much as many of my recently bought locos. Having now seen this video I will continue to buy Lenz decoders where possible (some old steam locos have almost no space available so a tiny cheap one may suffice). Thank you for a very informative review, Jim

[@EverardJunction]

Thanks Jim, you should be fine using lenz stuff. I've read loads of positive thingsf about lenz silver and gold decoders. The controllers are great too, I've had mine for 5 years now and I'm so glad I opted for it.

[@kiwitrainguy]

Hi, good vid. I have been finding out about Bachmann decoders in the last couple of days (and longer). For a start a Bachmann decoder whether it comes with a loco or not may actually be made by someone else. For example: 36-552, 44-913 & 44-915 are Bachmann, 36-553 & 36-554 are ESU and Bachmann sound decoders are usually SoundTraxx/Tsunami/ThrottleUp. The manufacturer of a decoder can be found by reading the value of CV 8. A reading of 101 means it's Bachmann, 151 means it's ESU, 141 means it's SoundTraxx, etc., etc. I have found that the basic Bachmann decoder is set up for running a loco that is installed with the very basic type of motor that is found in most Hornby locos. If you try to use this decoder in a loco with the type of motor that most locos are made with these days then the loco does not even start moving until speed step 7 or 8 out of a total of 28 speed steps. At the lower speed steps (1-7) it just buzzes and doesn't move at all. I had a Bachmann decoder 44-915 come with a NYC Niagara loco which I did not use as I was putting sound in instead. I have just got another Bachmann loco and got the problems mentioned above. The solution was to grab my Hornby Class 97 electric loco and put the bachmann decoder in to that. It moves off at speed step 1 although it still buzzes at the lower speeds and reaches half speed at step 10 instead of step 14 and there is no way to adjust this on this particular decoder that I have found. Also the Acceleration Delay can be set as high as 255 and when I did this I found that the loco took 6 minutes (!) to reach full speed. I have now set it to 40 (CV 3) and the Braking Delay to 30 (CV 4). But I will replace this decoder eventually with an ESU one so that it does not make the buzzing sound when it is starting off. If you want good, relatively cheap decoders then ESU do a budget model. The numbers are: 56311 (8 pin), 56314 (21 pin) and 53616 (PluX). These would be well worth checking out. Zimo would be just as good but cost a bit more, likewise Lenz. As for price I've found that a product is cheapest in the country where that brand is based. So: a UK brand is the lowest price in the UK, a US brand is the lowest price in the US, a German brand is the lowest price in Germany, and so on. - Dennis

[@waldenhouse]

Very interesting. I've not come across the 'STOP' issue before. It smacks of a circuit design component - I can't imagine the effect as all power is cut. One thought is that it might have in-built "stay-alive" which many enthusiasts demand these days? Therefore the discharge cap. will take time to discharge, as you are aware. Interesting comparisons though. Thanks for sharing.

[@Buccaneersixtynine]

Very interesting topic here, I agree with you totally on the new Bachmann decoder, I picked one up when I picked up my Bachmann BR Green Class 37 and I had the exact same problems with it. The buzzing noise was unbearable and I found it much less responsive. I ran the loco with the chip for about 10 minutes and I had to take it off. I never ran it again until a few months later when I picked the hornby Sapphire and I have had no problems since. I also have the Class 47 in Intercity and I payed £86 for it and I'm very happy with it,

[@angusstewart6213]

Thanks, that was most informative. The buzzing reminds me of my older pulse controlled modulated DC system - that would drive me crazy and finally nudged me into DCC. Even the humble Hornby 8 pin chip is silent and stops immediately when you hit the emergency button. Cheers, Angus.

[@auga002]

Hi there, great video and well presented. I use Lenz 6 pin decoders and on occasion ESU. The main reason I use Lenz is because my DCC system is, Lenz. The decoders also allow the locomotives to creep at really slow speeds, which is great when coupling coaches in a station. I didn't think of venturing deeper into discussions and the blaming-game between the manufacture of the System and the various decoder available in the market.

[@georgecraw5914]

Thank you very much for such an honest video of decoders. I do hope Bachmann learns from this and sorts the problem out. Some of us really like to run our trains and it is up to the manufactures to sort out the problem. Prices are constantly rising, but so is detail and sometimes performance and build quality, but we do expect these models to perform well in this present day. G.C.

[@parttimespotter2027]

I have a lot of old (Pre 2000) Lima and Hornby locos so needed a decent decoder. I contacted Kevin at Coastal DCC and he suggested Zimo MX600R decoders. At £20 they are good value and they perform well on my depot layout. Also Coastal DCC are EXCELLENT for advice and Customer Service.

[@richard901767]

Great timing on this video. I use a digitrax system. I have a mixture of decoders but having recently purchased a new class 47 & 56 I decided to buy a digitrax decoder. I also had a spare TCS decoder as well. Have to say having spent a day playing with acceleration values you really can tell the difference between the Bachmann ones and the more expensive ones and I decided last weekend that I might upgrade to better quality decoders over time. Think this video has just re enforced that choice

[@christinemullett7169]

Richard, I have just fitted a Lenz decoder (silver) into a Bachmann 08 shunter (Net work South East) and I can say that the Lenz is far superior stopping, creeping a very smooth decoder. Excellent report very informative.The 8pin decoder lends itself easily to fitting lamps front and rear to the 08 shunter. I am just about to purchase a sound chip for the new class 91 from Bachmann. I will be making the purchase from A&H I will let you know how it performs.

[@peterlatham]

Very interesting, I thought it was just me, regarding the stopping problem. My class 66 does the same. I did a test this morning after watching this video. Using my gaugemaster dcc system, the hand controller stopped the loco dead, but using the software version on my netbook the stop button made it stop very slowly.

[@stuartthegrant]

Very thought provoking video, The only Lenz decoders I have are both Silver mini+ with 8 pins and they are fine. Sapphires are costly but compare well with Lenz.

[@djw051]

Great video - would love to see one on CV programming in particular what you have changed and to what.

[@JamesSimpsonn]

Fantastic video as always. I had DCC for a very long time but had so many problems with it I chose to change to DC (best decision ever), I had the same problems with the bachmann 21 pin chips, the older ones I had no problems with but as soon as the new ones arrived I had nothing but trouble.

[@WVeagle77]

Good video. I appreciate comparison like this. Have been DC for decades, and just recently transitioning to DCC. So far using NCE system with some Digitrax decoders. Pretty pleased.

[@Willowfs4472]

Great clip and very informative, I have recently put a LOKsound decoder in my new Class 20 and I dont have the issue with the noise but with the emergency stop it did seem to not work to well, but the others that are chipped they have Digitrax in them and they are working fine for me. Thanks for sharing this clip ..

[@JamesCleevely]

I just did a quick check on the Hattons decoders fitted to some of my fleet, both the direct 8 pin and 21 pin decoders both have a slight buzz when on the track which is not too intrusive, however when the lights are on the LED's buzz. More importantly, they both respond to the emergency stop button on my controller. Personally I would say (that for someone just starting with dcc, someone who doesn't mind the buzzing or someone who is on a budget) that they are worth the money as they are currently only £12 each.The Gaugemaster chip in my 60 is better however, as it doesn't have the buzzing noise, is smoother in operation and doesn't cause the LED's in the lighting circuits to buss when they are on like the Hattons ones do.Personally, I am happy to use cheap decoders so I can use my fleet until I can afford DCC sound.

[@lerisavalentine124]

I'm just starting to do some research into DCC systems before taking the plunge. This is a very useful discussion and well presented video. Thanks :)

[@mdani76]

Hello, I have the same Lenz command station you have... you can set the STOP button to switch off power on track instead of send the stop command to all decoders; and I did that, because I had a faulty decoder (my guilty...) that gave full power to the loco without any control... I took off the power plug in time to avoid a big crash! From that day I changed the stop mode... :) I have Lenz Silver+ decoder even for the cheapest loco, and they are really superb, in any condition; last years I used ESU Lokpilot V4 and Basic... they are good but a bit noisy at low speed. I have also some Zimo: nothing to say, excellent decoders, with a lot of functions, but quite expensive. When I started to play with DCC I tried some Hornby decoders... they are simply JUNK! I plan now to try some LAISDcc in substitution of a couple of Lenz decoders installed in very cheap LIMA locos; I prefer to use them in some new and better locos!

[@GrahamFoulston]

That was great video Richard and thanks for making it. Last year when I started my layout I was mainly buying Hornby locos (I didn't know of Bachmann, Heljan etc at the time) so I bought Hornby decoders as it seemed the sensible thing to do to keep things compatible but their cheap decoders are rubbish in so much that the wiring is so prone to breaking off from the decoder. As regards the new tooled Bachmann decoder then there are so many complaints about them on the railway forums, just Google it and see the problems these decoders are having, they really are not worth buying. I have ended up buying ESU decoders as I have an ESU 50200 controller, yes they are expensive compared to the normal Hornby/Bachmann versions but if I'm investing £80 plus on a loco then I cost into the purchase a decent decoder, for me it's now part of the deal. Nothing annoys me more than having a loco that you don't know how it's going to behave from one day to another just because of a cheap decoder - cheap is normally expensive. I am not prepared to put up with some of these cheap decoders maybe OK one day and then not - I want 100% reliability or as near as damn it. So for me it's ESU. Hope that helps. ...........Graham

[@EverardJunction]

Thanks for the comment Graham. The general respose has been to buy decoders made by the same manufacturer as the dcc system you have. I'll be sticking with lenz from now on. I know what you mean about the cheap honby decoders. The 8 pin ones don't last long, especially in a heljan loco as they can't supply enough power to the motor. My 58 melted one!

[@GrahamFoulston]

EverardJunction I've just bought a pack of 5 own brand Hattons decoders Richard, they are just standard 8 pin (not the trailing lead version) and plug straight into the DCC socket so no wires to break off, I have fitted one in the new Heljan Lion and it's perfect, I have set the acceleration and braking on it and it works absolutely fine - and no horrible buzzing from it either when just sitting on the track, so theres another to add to the list - very cheap too. ..........Graham

[@ScottishNSRailFan]

Very informative viewing. I have a very large number of decoders to buy and you have pointed me in the right direction.

[@bloodmarine77]

a very interesting video richard and i am totally with you on this as i have one of the new bachmann decoders in my new heljan class 128 royal mail loco and have had the exact same issues as you as well as the train not responding when i set it to slow down and change direction. i think its wise for me to start paying that little bit extra for a decent decoder from now on as i liked the speed that your 47 went from a stand still position to the full speed you set it to.

[@EverardJunction]

Thanks Terry, my 128 was the first to get a lenz decoder. It runs great now and the smooth heljan motors help to.

[@RTM-fan]

I have a Lenz DCC system like you, same handhold, I use only ESU loksound decoders because I found them the best and the easy sound changing of the soundfiles. Started with V4 version ESU, now gradually upgrading them to a V5 version whenever the budget allows me. Can highly recommend ESU lokpilot or loksound if you use sound in your locos like I do.

[@Calvertfilm]

DCC is a bit of a minefield. Not starting, noisy decoders, stopping issues - the DCC owners I've met don't mention these things! Thanks for sharing. Personally I'd rather accelerate the train myself. Call me old-fashioned but that's part of the DC fun for me ;-)

[@TimmsyTFG]

that is just the most stupid response I have ever read, what drugs are you on? he hasz set the acceleration to be prgrammed for the test, you can drive the trains normally, seriously that was just so retarded what you said, there is hundreds of DCC advantages, less wiring, more control, super smooth running, added realism of lights and sounds not taken from the track, higher ampage = stronger current = better running.

[@Calvertfilm]

MrTimmsy1986 Ok, calm down LOL - I was merely pointing out I like actually driving trains - no need to be rude or misunderstand. DCC does seem to have a lot of issues though as pointed out here. Much like your spell check.

[@Calvertfilm]

MrTimmsy1986 Learn to speak with people with a bit of respect, and you'll get respect back, and a decent conversation going. So now I'm afraid Mr Timmsy I'm terminating you from my discussion, and I'll block you from my channel. Go back to making your Minecraft & gaming videos - you are not worth wasting my time with discussing the high DCC costs, lack of choice, toy-like sounds, and just how slow-running DC can get. I'm not wasting any more breaths of air on you. Have a good day ;-)

[@freightuk]

I will agree with the minefield side of it, especially the amount it costs to sort the good from the bad, I opted for DCC because it suited me, a large layout for which I did not want to build massive control panels, and a preference for walkabout control using a wireless network connection. On the other hand if the layout was small then I would probably stick with DC control, my layout, my choice, same goes for your layout, your choice CalvertFilm. Oh, and just ignore the background noise on here, sounds like someone has a dodgy sound chip ;)

[@Calvertfilm]

freightuk For a large layout it does make more sense. I agree with everything you say.

[@aplinewalker]

Great presentation im sure the evaluation and comparisons will be of great help to hundreds of modelers, many thanks for the time and effort you put into all your videos,, very concise and professional. Many thanks.

[@EverardJunction]

***** Thanks Alan

[@steburge1]

Very good, it makes a change to have a video showing some good practical advice as most of your videos are, I do use the Bachmann decoders and have noticed the emergency stop issue. I will upgrade one of my locos with better quality decoder and I can see what happens great advice keep these videos coming....... Kind regards Steve

[@coxsj]

Great vid. Really like your balanced and straightforward approach. Nice layout and sweet weathering jobs too.

[@juhanasiren6824]

Nicely presented and interesting thoughts. Re acceleration, a friend of mine, a locomotive driver himself, has the acceleration turned way up in his decoders (Lenz), and he says even the maximum of 255 doesn't match the delays experienced pulling a heavy train. Having driven his models, I'd say it's much more difficult to drive a train with long acceleration and deceleration delays than one without. One has to know the line and anticipate signals and platforms a long way ahead, just as a full-scale driver does. Then again, I myself set the inertia delays low, to approximate a light engine. One thing I wish is a quick-set button or selector knob to flip between a few common settings, such as "light engine", "light train", "heavy train". (This would even be realistic. In full scale one has to select the correct braking mode for each vehicle on the train: G, P, R, R+Mg...)

[@EverardJunction]

Juhana Siren The acceleration rate depends greatly on the type of train. Most of mine are set to near the max setting. It can be quite difficult to stop them in the right place when using the layout..

[@TheShadeTreeFixitMan]

Good comparisons and honest observations. I am still on DC and hoping some day to be able to afford DCC.

[@airspotters3487]

Thank you i currently run DC and this has helped to let me decided what I should do when I upgrade. I have a simply circuit layout so it never an issue really but i am putting on a branch line so things are set to become complicated. Malcolm

[@ronb5781]

Thank you for the product review! Great advice!!

[@dthead]

Thanks, glad I found your video. A friends has a Lenz system and a class 47 and when placed on his test track it sits there with lights on, but runs ok on my NCE system. I now suspect the decoder.

[@44662dc]

I absolutely agree with you regarding cheap Bachmann chips. Personally I like TCM chips I find them very smooth and do not hum. Not tried a Lenz chip yet but I do very much respect your modelling skills and will be trying one for comparison Denis

[@noelgriffin6924]

Thanks, excellent as ever. I've come to the same conclusions. I've discovered there are different versions of the Bachmann 36-557 out there, some with the noise/stop problems others without. I too have now standardised on Lenz Silver+ 21pin from a source in Germany at £19ea (i.e. €25). For sound Locos I've used ESU and Zimo, both excellent at drive and sound, however personally I just prefer 'real drive' on Zimo for coasting and authentic braking. It took me a while to get used to but now I just love driving models with this zimo coasting/brake feature.

[@johnc2ful]

thanks Richard. When i get to running trains regularly, it will make me think about the decoders in the locos

[@paulm3965]

Many thanks for the info. The 36-554 has a lower amperage output (Stall). The 36-557. will be able to draw 1.1 amps before it burns burns out. I find the buzz unacceptable. Just like yourself I have a Lenz system. I have used a Gaugemaster DCC chip. (silver approx. £25.00) for small steam loco.Useful for adding directional lights front and rear. These chips are manufactured in the USA for Gaugemaster. I am predominately sound, I run mainly diesel loco's. I recommend ESU.sound chips. Once bitten with a sound chip you will take out a second mortgage, It is akin to colour TV against Black and white. Check out You Tube from Howe's. Class 37 excellent. SWD, and Coastal DCC are in a class of their own,very helpful and informative. Everard junction, Great layout I look forward to your next posting. PS Not sure of your Rover SDI .

[@Caz_Rail]

Great video mate, I agree with you aswell. Only thing I've not experienced the ES problem, as the Hornby Elite cuts power to the track.

[@RightWing1]

I'm using Gaugemaster decoders, but that was for several reasons: a) I have the Gaugemaster Prodigy 2 so decided to match decoders in an effort to minimise incompatibilities b) I managed to obtain these far cheaper than other makes from my local model shop, so was a no brainer However I did want to try other makes now that prices appear to have gone up for the newer 21 pin decoders, but I shall be wary based on your findings in this video.

[@matthewburke5241]

Found this very helpful. On my layout today I had a Bachmann Class 166 Turbo being followed by a Hornby Class 43 HST. The Turbo derailed on the entrance to the bay road at my main station. Of course, I hit 'Stop' on my DCC Controller but the HST did this (as per the video) and slammed straight into the arse of the Turbo. I have ruined the imitation coupler on the Class 166 and chipped the lower coupler door on the HST. Grrrr! 😡

[@user-vm4um7xx7k]

Two responses: I've had great luck with DCCConcepts decoders, which were among the first to offer keep-alive at a reasonable price. Originally in Perth, Australia, now coming to you from England. I'd call them mid-priced. I've never invested in emergency stop. It's a button I can't find in an emergency stop button. Also, in some decoders, hitting emergency stop can shut down an entire layout, which is a disaster in a club environment. I compromise this by recognizing this is a model layout, not a full-size operational railroad. In a small model environment, you have to move quickly. I will program a reasonable amount of momentum for acceleration, but zero momentum for deceleration. That way, in an emergency, I can dial down to zero speed faster than I could find a button. Also, I am a big believer on potentiometer type throttles as opposed to encoders or other types of throttles that don't give you a firm stop. For the same reasons.

[@SolarRailway]

Interesting and informative video, as yet I haven't bought any new 21 pin Bachmann decoders and I don't think I will now as that buzzing noise would certainly annoy me! Cheers, Matt.

[@mrbean6694]

Nice video again! I keep thinking about dcc, even though all I have at the moment is ac, but I feel dcc is a lot of money and time for me as I can only do small amounts after school

[@EverardJunction]

DCC is great, but its getting started thats difficult as the systems are expensive. Personally I would only use dcc on medium to large layouts. DC is fine for a small table top layout.

[@FarlandHowe]

I always thought it was a choice as to whether the loco stops immediately or the controlled stop programmed in. It seems like that was a box I could tick when I set it up? Maybe not. I've got almost all Hornby chips. Nice video though. Very informative and clear. Rob

[@kirbyparkwest4392]

I have a Class 150/2 DMU with a Bachmann chip. I've always wondered what the dam buzzing was. Thanks, a Lenz will now be installed. Have a Lenz in m East Coast HST which runs well. Cheers. James

[@CentralWestRail]

I only have 2 DCC installed models, soon to be 3. My Eureka NSW CPH railmotor uses a QSI chip with sound which is operable on both DCC and DC. While my Hornby A1 "Tornado" uses a basic 8 pin, Hornby Sapphire Decoder.

[@TheEnglishTrainSpotter2021]

Class 47... My First Loco On My Layout. One Motor Failed! Now 1 Motor Pulls 8 Coaches.

[@JBtrainman]

Interesting video. For my Bachmann locos, I use a Hornby sapphire decoder instead of the Bachmann 21 pin. Its more expensive, but I have had no issues with it yet.

[@tc228888]

Never really concerned myself with emergency stopping. However, Bachmann decoders ( non sound as well as sound) are very poor . I usually have to adjust CV2 to get an immediate start . Subsequent motor performance is also poor. I have replaced these with TCS KAT decoders that have THE BEST motor control I've ever experienced. KA means Keep Alive as these decoders are equipped with a bank of capacitors that store voltage to overcome dirty track and or bad connections. I suspect that given this feature, immediate stopping might be a concern ...I will attempt it next time I run an engine with a KAT decoder ...our cost for a typical KAT is about $49 US dollars ...I regret I did not know the conversion rate of POUNDS to dollars while listening to your review ...thanks for sharing this ..

[@RBXTrains]

I was expecting you to look at those even cheaper hattons own brand decoders! I always use the Hornby Decoders - only because I use the Honrby Select though... Sometimes I use the Hornby decoders and their emergency stop facility is very variable. Frequently I'll press it and the locomotive will continue for 3 or 4 laps of the layout before stopping or I have to intervene again and cut power or try and catch it off the tracks!

[@SMTMainline]

I purchased one for 16 bucks and installed it on my life-like f7, it worked for two days before it burned out, smoke was billowing out the windows... It probably needed a resistor...

[@graememorrison5456]

Very interesting , would rather spend the extra £10 for quality rather than quantity, thanks for sharing Graeme

[@oceanfroggie]

Thanks for the excellent video clip. Interesting experience you've had with your chips. I have a mix of Lenz Silver 21s and Bachman 36-557 in my Murphy Model Irish GMs (141/181 class) and have been surprised how good the 36-557s have been in my 141/181s. After watching this video, I have just double checked the locos running the 36-557 and they all stop immediately when 'stop' is pressed. No noise either when idle, and their slow running and acceleration is fine. I wonder if there are different versions or batches of the 36-557 chips produced and I've been lucky with mine (so far). The Lenz have performed well too. The MM141 and MM181 ultra slow running with the Bachmann has been impressive. I think they are rebadged SoundTrax M1s. Bachmann don't actually make decoders

[@danimieghem]

It all depends on the locomotive you start off with. If you have old locomotives (I have quite a few from the 70's and 80's which I have modified to run on digital track) you don't need a very expensive decoder, as the actual motor is often "crappy". So unless you also want to invest in a good motor, don't bother spending a lot on decoders. I absolutely agree with your statements. LOVE your series of videos, by the way !!! Keep up the good work.

[@freightuk]

I find that a well serviced and cleaned up old loco with a Lenz works well, my first two are a Trix Class 5 and a Triang 3MT.

[@danimieghem]

I agree to that. However, I have Märklin AC trains and those old motors aren't the best of breed in terms of slow running. In that case you also need to invest in a permanent magnet (to replace field coil) and a 5 pole engine rotor plus the decoder. That will easily set you back about 50 £ (60..65 €) so then it is sometimes better to keep the motor as is (3 pole AC) and fit a cheap Tams (LD-W-32 or 33) decoder. The nostalgia of old Märklin trains... the noise, the motor sound ... unique :-) :-)

[@freightuk]

Dani VAN MIEGHEM Must admit I wasn't thinking as far back to AC trains. The smaller part of my layout that is to run AC TTR I will try to keep to it's own twin train control system unless the loco auto-reversing mechanisms drive me barmy. In which case I may convert them to DC operation and twin train operation. None of my locos are pristine collector quality, most are naturally 'weathered' so modifications are permitted ;) Most of my Hornby Dublo locos have already needed their magnets replaced with NEO versions which adds to the cost but that does not necessarily improve slow running especially on DC. The extra strong magnets cause rather more cogging to occur but does significantly reduce the current required which in turn reduces the size and cost of the decoder, however I think DCC helps smooth the drive there. It does cost more in time and maintenance on these old locos, but then I prefer them and with my increasing age related clumsiness they are almost 'senior proof' :)

[@kiwitrainguy]

If you want to convert Marklin locos with AC motors in to DC motors there's no need to get a new armature as well. ESU sells permanent magnets (4 types) that are compatible with all the Marklin AC motors going back to the 1960s-perhaps earlier. Although you will need a decoder to convert the AC track voltage in to DC for the motor. - Dennis

[@kevintregunna]

Hi Richard quite interesting I have a couple of locos with similar problems will have a look I have some lenz decoders will swap them over and give it a try ,age old saying you get what you pay for cheers Kevin

[@nickdring604]

firstly nice to see you in the magazine well done, can you or have you done a video on installing dcc into a non dcc loco? and choice of decoders (8 pin 21 pin etc) keep up the good work, you really should do some books or videos as a job, because you have a great clam relaxed voice ,easy to listen to, and you could be making a lot of money my friend. kindest regards nick d

[@AnthonyRailwayBVideos]

Very interesting video. If I was rich enough I'd always go for the premium lens decoders - they seem to work amazing compared to what I'm used to. I'd be interested to see how the Hornby decoders compare to these. I tend to use the Hornby stuff.

[@glynnmason8205]

great video . ive had similar issues using Hatton's decoders they just seam to struggle pulling away the type of loco can make it worse but Hornby decoder works better and no problems

[@alexwells]

Thank you for the review - really well done!

[@WalterO1959]

Thanks for the insight,.......... Walter

[@JtagSheep]

I have a couple of 8 pin bachmann decoders and they are about 5+ years old now they work flawless in my Class 108 DMU however I have found the same issues with the newer ones not stopping properly or been noisy. When I come to build my new layout and gather stock to run I will most likely use Lenz decoders silver or gold not sure but I have found Lenz to make flawless decoders.

[@JacksonSubNScaleModelRailroad]

Everything on my layout get ESU Loksound 5 decoders. I have a few engines with Soundtraxx Tsunami PNP decoders and they are just as good too.

[@farmerdave7965]

I use Digitrax decoders. Never had a problem. The old decoders use a low PWM pulse rate, hence the buzzing at low speeds. Newer decoders have a PWM pulse rate that is a higher frequency that humans cannot hear. I do like the MTC 21 pin interface and I will be using it in the future after I have used up all of my older decoders that have 9 pins.

[@ingamename3873]

thanks sooo much for helping with the emergency stop, i had the same problem :)

[@konstruktionsburojb6848]

I must admit that I stick by my ESU LokPilot 4.0 decoders, but I have just ordered their basic 8 pin version for some of my second line locomotives. now it is going to be interesting to see if I end up mirroring your experiences. The difference in price is appx. £ 5.25 so if you are going to upgrade your mothballed locomotives this is indeed a factor. But I will let the performance have the last word.

[@buddyboy1953]

Its like the old addage " You get what you pay for ". Have you ever got in touch with Bachmann ? Explained what your problem is ? i would ask them to refund you on the money you spent, just a thought. Very good video !!

[@AndyHudson-ModelRailwayBuilds]

Interesting video, not had a issue with bachmann decoders yet, but def find them to be better than the Hornby one, but mine are over 6 months old tho, so will keep an eye on that, have noticed the emergency stop never works on my layout, this is frustrating, but I always thought it was down the gaugemaster system I was using, which I want to change later this year. cheers Andy

[@EverardJunction]

Hi Andy, I really stand by the older 36-554 decoders. They are great and have saved me a load of money. Past experience has taught me to avoid the hornby decoders, but now the 36-557 has replaced the 554 I think my days of saving cash are over. Still the lenz units are really good, just add up over time when I buy locos.

[@faexu5]

Im using Fleischmann Twin decoders aswell as Esu Lokpilot and Tamsdecoders. The best of these 3 is definitivly the esu one

[@bus131]

Interesting video. I have a few bachmann locos that keep running on in an emergency, and never actually noticed the decoders are different. I've been looking for a fault in my system but looks like a decoder upgrade may be in order

[@vector111100]

Very informative. I use the Dynamis system , and when using the emergency stop, the power to the track is completely cut off. Im surprised the lenz system doesn't operate in the same way.

[@PedroMarco94]

I love your english, so easy to understand. Nice railway too;)

[@PlannerCarlos]

i to agree on the same i have a dcc class a4 which i converted back to dc when it banged with one of my old lner coaches 2 years ago the a4 lost its buffers and what you can call as the front grill and the lner brake van lost its a buffer and a coupler

[@bigfella1952]

Great informative video. Didn't realize about different Bachman decodes, blamed the Loco and infact returned a couple. You mentioned Hattons, have you tried their own brand, compared to Bachman. The layout we are building is our first Dcc Exhibition layout after years of exhibiting Standard DC layouts. x Paul x

[@jayandres1567]

i guess im randomly asking but does anyone know of a trick to get back into an instagram account..? I stupidly lost my login password. I love any assistance you can offer me!

[@walkerelliott7168]

@Jay Andres instablaster :)

[@jayandres1567]

@Walker Elliott thanks for your reply. I found the site through google and im trying it out now. Seems to take quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

[@jayandres1567]

@Walker Elliott it worked and I now got access to my account again. I'm so happy! Thank you so much you saved my ass :D

[@walkerelliott7168]

@Jay Andres you are welcome xD

[@TansersTrains]

I have no issues with the unbranded ones at my local model shop! they work well and I get them for £10!!

[@pipparoo234]

hi richard ive had a few cheap decoders in the past but on because there have come with the loco but the ones i have bought have been lenz silver with regards to your layout and lenz decoders you may want to to full use of a ABC of the lenz decoder and since you have signals i dont think it would be to hard for you to do. . i was at doncaster show this year and i seen a layout the had 4 locos running using the ABC of the chips some were loksound V4 and the rest were lenz silver and the operators didnt touch the controls for the loco after they set them off the ABC kept them from crashing into each other

[@WestHillWagonWorks]

I have the same loco as yourself with the same bachmann decoder, but i use the prodigy advance 2, i have no buzzing and have no response issues

[@DeanPark]

An interesting viewpoint on the decoders Rich. I have to say I always 'trust' the Bachmann chip to be the best to go in to Bachmann locos. They are decent value. I have 2 of these newer decoders in my Swallow and RES 47's and I do know what you mean about the buzzing. I have not had the issue with the emergency stop YET! I looked at the lenz ones too. After seeing the new 'un-buzzy' ones I will look to upgrade my ones in the future. Any other noticeable improvements with these lenz ones? I have to say I have not pottered around with the acceleration CVs etc. Might get in to that in future. Good vid! Dave

[@TimmsyTFG]

I loved the vid, cemented my thoughts that you should buy a decoder to go with your controller not the model, Hornby and Bachmann installed digital on their locos, fundamentally they know the model, but not the technology like the controller manufacturers do. Everyone knows in the DC days we never used the Hornby ones that came with sets etc, we bought gaugemaster or ontrack as they were people who specialised in control and we should do the same when looking at DCC in my opinion since researching it all extensively before I make a start on my power route

[@DieyoungDiefast]

MrTimmsy1986 Maybe, but it shouldn't matter what controller you're using, Emergency stop should be just that, not a slow to a stop.. I was using a bachman Dynamis controllerwhich worked OK (trains did stop when the panic button was pushed) but then I started to think about upgrading to get more functions. As it stood you couldn't read the chip settings once programmed unless you had the pro upgrade which was going to cost £140. Then I found the NCE PowerCab which did everything for £130 (and it didn't have issues with fluorescent lights)

[@EverardJunction]

I was very much with you on the cheap decoders. The old 21 pin unit is great and I’ve never had issues. The lenz decoders have much better adjustability and slightly smoother running than the Bachmann units. The manual for lenz silver is 20 pages! So there is plenty to change and adjust to your liking.

[@laservader1]

I've used quite a few different styles and brands of decoder and I've yet to have a problem including the new 21pin bachman chip, other than a dead one that was replaced by the shop

[@AVFCAM]

I've stopped using Bachmann 21s too, I use TCS ones now, I've had no problems since!

[@EverardJunction]

£20 sound good, I may try some as thats only £5 more. Good to hear i'm not the only one with issues on the bachmann 21 pin.

[@robertselwood2010]

My limited experience, using a Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance controller, is that the cheap Hornby decoder gives an irritating buzzing sound at low speeds and its CV settings are not readable. I am happy with the cheap Bachmann decoders (36-554 made by ESU i believe, and the newer 36-557) when used in my big deisel loco's, but when fitted into steam loco's have given severely jerky motion at low speeds even after adjusting the back-EMF settings. I have recently bought some Digitrax and Lenz decoders, both of which basically work just fine, ie silent and smooth running even at low speeds without any need to mess about with back-EMF CV's.

[@NS3644]

In all my loco's i've changed out the installed cheaper decoders and have installed ESU loksound. I know they cost a bit more but you get what you pay for i always say.

[@jpsholland]

till the moment you realize what they actually cost in the Chinese factory. The cheap ones a small hand full of cents en the expensive ones: ad 2 or 3 cents more..... If companies should be satisfied with a normal profit, then a top notch ultra super turbo decoder would cost 5 pounds. If they make the trains and stuff half the current price, they stil would make a VERY well profit on it. Have that said, they would make more profit as lots and lots of people would stream in the hobby because it was affordable. But western salesman are unable to see that.

[@melanierhianna]

Bachmann have changed manufacturer again. The blue PCB decoders are ESU ones. They appear to be LokPilots.

[@JohnJohnson-xm2mu]

Great vid ,thanks for the tips

[@BB67407]

Hi , very interesting test, good tutorial, thanks for sharing with us. Gérard.

[@IndyMAB1964]

I am just getting in to model railroading and am watching all kinds of videos to help speed the education along. I was wondering if the Bachmann decoders are still a problem in 2021 like they were when you recorded this back in 2014, or have the issues you brought up with the Bachmann decoder buzzing, stuttering, or the emergency stop issue been solved.

[@CreweslyRoad4472]

Great video! Pity about the new Bachmann decoder! :-( Did I notice a new Hornby class 56 (unweathered)...

[@user2C47]

I agree, "ESTOP" should mean "instantly stop the motor," rather than "gradually slow the motor."

[@mandarin1257]

On the other hand, not having this feature keeps you on your toes and makes you more careful. A real train cannot stop instantly.

[@harshadmahajan197]

Thanks for the informative video. Please can you make a video for controlling 2 or more locomotives simultaneously by using one controller? and also to couple two locomotive and run them together for more pulling power? I have seen that in only Baqchmann EZ controller.

[@jetset2070]

Don't know if it means anything but I've found out that Bachmann decoders don't work with the Hornby Select (with a Bachmann 37) which I'm using at the moment until I get to a point where I need a new controller. I swapped it with a Lenz and it works fine.

[@EverardJunction]

Steve H Decoder issues with a hornby select are common. That's because the select does not comply with all the NMRA standards. Its very much an entry level system.

[@jacobporrett]

Very interesting. The chips in my locos are fine and they stop when emergency button is pressed. Not sure what chips they are because they have been fitted for me.

[@PSB-gj9xd]

Have you adjusted the BEMF for the loco? This could help with the starting from a complete stop.

[@Billy_The_Dog]

Hi there. Great video as always. Was just wondering if you knew whether the problem you have with the new Bachmann 21 pin decoders, carry over on to the new Bachmann 6 pin decoders (for us n gauge boys)? Running mostly Graham Farish so Bachmann seems the obvious choice, but I don't want to go out and buy a whole heap of new decoders, get Hattons to ship them ALL the way to New Zealand, just to find that they don't work! Or do you think I should go for a different brand?

[@EverardJunction]

Netherfield Junction Not sure if the 6 pin ones are affected. I know the 8 pins ones are fine as I still use those. Might be worth checking some of the forums to see if anyone has any horror stories about them.

[@shornford]

Interesting comparison. Is the noise a faulty new Bachmann chip? I have a few different chips where someone else has done the DC to DCC conversion so don't think about them too much. The voyager with lenz chips has the lights on automatically, which is really helpful though. The biggest issue I face with DCC locos is a sudden reversal of direction - not sure if this is chip related.

[@kaypeathreeextrakp689]

I would dcc my layout but buying the controller decoders power track would cost me about £100+. I do want to though and if I did I would use your advice from this video.

[@MrJDMmills]

I use gaugemaster dcc 25& dcc 26 decoders. the only locos that are noisy are my Hornby class 90 that ive added lights to and my twin pack of VItrains 37's but I think the 37's are noisy due to the motor/ gearbox rather than the decoders, im gonna do a meet the fleet video soon (I hope) cos im in the process of building the first helix

[@komatsu65]

Good man Richard, I'll give that a go when I buy one. Although I'm thinking of looking for a class 47 in Virgin livery. It'll be good enuf to pull a 6/7 car rake. Thanks again. Ollie.