Are Cheap Electric Vehicles REALLY Better Than Cheap Petrol Cars?

[@Bowled10]

Another great video ,happy new year Dave and Jonas. From Dave

[@davidross5121]

Another great video Dave, your videos are nearly always thought provoking and I enjoy them. Thanks

[@Project-jf3bz]

Happy new year Dave.

[@TheGalantir]

Damn, up to now i could pretend to be rich because i had an EV. I was always going around in my EV singing: I'm rich because i drive EV and they are too expensive for non rich people so i must be rich. Now you ruined that.

[@johncrispin2118]

Lol. … hny 😀

[@SGreen679]

Wow Dave, A full video without one mention of Tesla. Is this a New Years resolution? Congratulations, I will carry on with a subscription (for now).

[@paulweston1106]

Well, it is a video about cheap EVs and petrol equivalent. Tesla aren't cheap and don't have a petrol version so it would be difficult to shoehorn too much about Tesla into this one.

[@PercyRanger]

Some super cheap used Tesla’s on the market right now.

[@MrDAVIDATKIN]

You can pick up the Dolphin for £3k less brand new on Autotrader at under £22k. It would seem a no brainer if in the market for one of them.

[@chrisw3771]

Happy new year Dave, great review as ever. The only 'benefit' I'm not fond of is one pedal driving. Some input requiring paying attention is important. Auto emergency braking with a spinal injury is a nightmare too.

[@stevenbarrett7648]

Don't forget to add in the whole of life costs such as annual maintenance costs Dave.

[@PercyRanger]

Quick, somebody grab the defibrillator, Dave just mentioned a French car (mine actually, the Renault 5). I Just had a heart attack. Don’t forget Dacia Too.

[@BMWHP2]

The Dongfeng Nammi Box Launch edition in the Netherlands is pound for pound even better than any petrol car, or that BYD Dolphin. A hatchback EV for €23.000 brand new, very efficiënt with an easy range of 310km in cold weather, enough space for 4 large baseball players and only 1330kg. ADAS level 2 driving, heated and cooled driver seat. Great EV in the EU, sadly not in the UK.

[@nedywest71]

The problem is NOT everyone could charge home. For those of us living in a flats we need a large batteries as to let allow us to get throughout the week commute (300-400 miles) with one full charge over the weekend while doing my shopping. Smaller battery and frequently charging (public charger) is no go for me.

[@MrDAVIDATKIN]

I agree it is more difficult and expensive for the 40% of people that can't home charge. This is where local councils should step up and ensure there is plenty of on street charging at sensible prices. Another option would be workplace charging, my nephew get his charged up for £1 at work, a great way to retain staff.

[@GruffSillyGoat]

There seems to be an upswing of focus on the 30% (varies by region) of households who cannot charge at home, an analysis from a few years back showed that the preferred method by drivers was on-street charging for those living in densely packed terraced housing and local fast/rapid charging the preference for those living in flats. There is a focus, in both central and local government to increase the access (simplify the process) for gully and on-street/lamp-post charging for the terrace group, and driving up the rollout of localised destination and rapid/ultra-rapid charging for the flat group, including incentives. There is also a push by EV driver organisations to establish a 'right to charge' similar to that implemented in other countries, to replace the barriers present for renters and leaseholders for installing their own chargers or using the schemes/incentives available (such as the subsidiised installation of chargers for flat owners). The latest government analysis (24th Dec) shows the range of needing on-street/public charging varies between 24% and 36% of households by region, in England the urban peak is now 32%, of which 16% have access to charging within five minutes of their home. A key barrier remains charging cost, which although is cheaper than fossil-fuels when using EV charging membership discounts is still significantly higher than that of home charging; again driving organisations are seeking for the VAT element to be lowered to the same as home charging.

[@MrDAVIDATKIN]

@GruffSillyGoat I agree with what you've said, the only thing I slightly disagree with is that memberships for EV charging is cheaper than fossil fuels. I would say as an EV driver who occasionally uses memberships that they are comparable with current fossil fuel costs. An example would be Ionity passport, one of the best out there in my opinion that gives a rate of 43p kWh. At this time of year my car returns 3.3miles kWh or 13p a mile, also that hasn't factored in the £10.50 a month membership.

[@GruffSillyGoat]

​@@MrDAVIDATKIN - I based my statement on the average petrol mpg, which is 36mpg in the UK (source: NimbleFins) and average UK petrol cost £1.36 (source: RAC). The average EV does 3.4 miles/kWh or 4.2 miles/kWh for long-range EVs (source: EV database). The petrol £1.36 equates to a charging price of 60p per kW or lower for an average EV (71p or lower for a long-range EV). These are higher rates than membership based charging rates even factoring the membership fee into the calculation. For the 7,600 average UK annual mileage, 633 miles per month, this equates to £109 per month for petrol and £91 per month for Ionity including the £11 monthly membership; the petrol car would refuel twice and the EV would top up two to three times depending upon the battery size. Of course for ICE there is the regret cost of two thirds of the energy purchased being lost to waste.

[@nedywest71]

@@MrDAVIDATKIN Local council charging is not a problem in London but the time limit. Those are either slow chargers but still 2 hours limit or in case of the lamp posts charging strictly Residential Permit only places. I got plenty of public charges around where I live in London but all of them 2 hours stay limit or till vehicle is charged. I have no time to charge and be around the car / loose time as to remove the car when charged during the working week. That is why I had mentioned that 400-500 miles on single charge is a min for people like me. Living in flat and no work place charging. With this range I would fully charge over the weekend while shopping and then good to go for over the week. Anything less would require me to charge midd week or often therefore increase of my working time if I can not go home after work. So I am looking forward the new TY whit its rumoured 400 miles range.

[@johnowen7061]

Hello Happy new year Just one thing I would like to say is don’t rely on one pedal driving this because you may need to do a emergency stop and if you not used the brake for some time you will take longer to stop as the rust on the disc will make it less efficient, also the brake could scene’s up with no use. If you wish to use one pedal use the brake s bit each time you go out to keep them working.

[@GruffSillyGoat]

A lot of EVs address this issue by using the brakes rather than regen periodically when using one pedal driving. Some like Kias have a brake disc maintenance function, reminding drivers to use the brake pedal before engaging iPedal mode.

[@MrDAVIDATKIN]

@GruffSillyGoat yep my EV does this.

[@johnowen7061]

@ Not have a EV with I did not know that they had a function to reminding to use the brakes.

[@solentbum]

By always charging to 100% I do not get this non problem. With a full battery the 'one pedal' drive will slow the car on the brakes if there is not enough room in the battery for regen electricity during the first few miles.

[@AndrewFlower-c2l]

Again great content told in a simple way, gets the brain ticking EV is the way!

[@jeremynorth5214]

Another point in favour of the BYD Dolphin is the PCP rates. This negalres any worries about residuals (which are always a worry in a relatively new market, which is evloving si quickly). £289 deposit, £289 a month on 8k miles a year over 4 years blows anything else I've seen out of the water. Oh, and 3 years free servicing too! I bought mine from DM Keith in Grimsby, who were helpful and efficient, and a long standing local dealer, even if the brand is new to the uk. Maybe we could have a video comparing pcp offers of ICE vs EV cars in the future, as for most people this is the way we will fund our next car...

[@robertstone4025]

All that Chinese technology , computerised controlled, electronically activated gizmos is just great until it malfunctions and becomes more expensive to repair than replace . Speaking as an owner of a 20year old diesel car this video sends chills . I don't want all that tech . I want a car that I can maintain myself .

[@GruffSillyGoat]

Well in the 20 years since your last cars things have moved on, all cars have modern electronics in them. You'll just have to restrict your future purchases to used 20+ year old cars.

[@MrDAVIDATKIN]

That's fine for you but I think you will find yourself in the minority. EVs require very little maintenanace with no oils or filters to change other than the pollen filter, no exhaust or catalytic converter, no clutch, starter motor, fuel injection system or complicated engine to worry about, . With the battery covered for 8 years it really is worry free motoring with servicing costs negligble and running costs of 2-3p a mile if you charge at home.

[@foppo100]

Maintaining your own car those days are over.Your 20 year old diesel causes harm to children.You have to live with that.

[@Altair885]

​@@foppo100 So do EVs, just not the ones in this country. But I suppose to people like you that doesn't matter!

[@Un-Apologetic]

@@foppo100 just google the carbon footprint for the manufacture of an EV up to the point of sale. For illustration, the Tesla Model 3 holds an 80 kWh lithium-ion battery. CO2 emissions for manufacturing that battery would range between 2400 kg (almost two and a half metric tons) and 16,000 kg (16 metric tons).1 Just how much is one ton of CO2? As much as a typical gas-powered car emits in about 2,500 miles of driving-just about the same weight as a great white shark! That's just the battery. Then there is all the steel and plastic production, then the eventual disposal of the battery.

[@johnnyhollis9977]

What about doing an insurance comparison and how easy it is to get EV insurance?

[@Jaw0lf]

Nice one Dave, you can't argue that they are too expensive. If you only buy a second hand car the EV market is full and has many great value EV's that will still do a great job and provide almost all the range of a new one. Only time to wait is if you want an EV older than 5 years old as the good ones "in general" are still waiting to reach that age. Thee tech in an EV is far in advance of most ICE cars, such as adaptive cruise and pre heating.

[@hectorwinslove6154]

Odd that a relative of mine in Norway recently bought a brand new Tesla Model 3 Highland Long Range AWD (yes, the one that costs £50k in the UK) for only £3500 more than the base model Puma. Not sure if that's just rip off Britain or the Chinese competition, but whichever it is, it's about time we got a better deal in the UK.

[@stuartj5520]

Norway has very high EV incentives that reduce the price paid significantly

[@kimedwards3937]

Tesla and BYD only have one model. It costs more to manufacture a model with 3 or 4 specs. Tesla's have self drive built in. You can opt to pay £6500 switch on self drive software.

[@johncrispin2118]

The sole raison d’etre surely says the answer is categorically yes ! if for no other reason because they do not burn anything ! Nor indirectly Especially if you buy renewable electricity ie from octopus. The 2 century era of piston engines ( and I luv em ) is gone . Those not accepting that will have to overcome like I had to . Evs are now no dearer than ice so just give one a try if nothing else . Make it your new year resolution 😊

[@dannyhunn8752]

I assume the 1 litre engine is the wet belt design so a disaster to be avoided at all costs.

[@johndoyle4723]

Thanks, yes BYD will do well in UK, but Ford have a huge base of loyal customers, just like Toyota has. Not sure about Vauxhall using the Frontera name as it was generally not a well liked ICE vehicle, similarly the ICE Capri was much loved and using the name on an EV will not help, but what do I know, they will have a huge marketing team that knows best.

[@StephenButlerOne]

The BYD products are well stacked when it comes to tech. That has more kit on it thsn my Cupra Born that is over 10k more. I actually can wait for more to enter the market. The Chinese cars are way ahead of the traditional west OEMs. The traditional car manufacturers all seem to be to bloated and too unionised now. It smells a lot like the 1970s british Layands fall, is about to be played out right across the wetern OEMs. VAG and Stalantis seem ike they are on a knifes edge. Japan too.

[@capnkirk5528]

Dave, you are clearly being almost TOO polite to the STUPIDs. Unless charging is an issue, and by that I mean you drive over 100 miles a day and regularly do trips over 300 miles AND you can't charge at home, the answer if you are in the UK is: get an EV. Duh!

[@mikadavies660]

2025 starts well with honest common sense...👍

[@godzuks]

Very interesting..for me it all comes down to charging at home, thats the deal breaker for EV..

[@kevinallen4604]

Or work place or super market. It just needs to be available when parked. Home obviously wins but other options are available. Plus if only travelling the average 20 miles a day it’s not even needed to charge every day.

[@ziggarillo]

Yes, not having access to at least a 13 amp socket is a problem. If you're near to or pass a Tesla supercharger regularly, that would work.

[@johnnyhollis9977]

Yes that is a huge stumbling block for a lot of people. Ladies in particular don't want to be hanging about in a drafty car park waiting to get a car charge. Also who wants to get the super low rate of charging at 2am in the morning or sit around drinking gallons of coffee! A friend of mine lives in a perfectly nice little 80's estate where practically every house cannot have a home charge point. Cars are garaged elsewhere with no electrical connection. It was designed like that to improve the outlook of the estates housing arrangements that was promoting to good effect grassed outlooks with no off street parking anywhere near the house. Great in the summer as games can be played in complete safety for both young and old alike. The idea being to avoid having lines of cars outside the houses. A great idea at the time but useless for possible EV charging these days.

[@godzuks]

@@kevinallen4604 work place or supermarket chargers give very low charge, forecourt chargers are more expensive than petrol..

[@godzuks]

@@ziggarillo superchargers are more exspensive than petrol prices and waiting around for 40 minutes to charge..

[@NoName-md5zb]

Frontera still way more expensive

[@steve-zschannel2729]

Even if I'd buy an ICE car (which I won't) I wouldn't buy a Puma with its almost self destructing wet timing belt 1 litre Ecoboost engine, fine if you're only going to keep it for 2 or 3 years but dodgy as a long term ownership prospect.

[@johnnyhollis9977]

Oh blimey I thought that they had solved that wet belt issue disaster. I would never buy a Ford anyway!! 👍

[@mjcamp01]

Meanwhile the Ford Puma EV starts at £29995, or £31995 (range 226 miles) if you want one with equivalent in car features to the BYD Dolphin (range 310 miles). Then Ford complain that noone is buying their EV, I wonder why!!! Damn EV mandate. Question: What will be the best selling EV in 2025 in UK?

[@Un-Apologetic]

The same as this year and last year. The Tesla model Y. In 2024 Tesla sold more cars than all of the 137 Chinese Manufacturers put together. And by a long way. Chinese EV's aren't selling in the numbers that some people might want you to think.

[@alcord2540]

If you want to replace petrol/diesel cars,maybe replace them with something as useful or better.Still waiting for that to arrive.

[@hectorwinslove6154]

Then you've obviously had your eyes wide shut for the past 5 years.

[@andrewjoy7044]

I would like to inform you that a vehicle type much better than petrol and diesel has been around for about 12 years. They are called Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs). They are now as cheap if not cheaper to buy than Internal Combustion Engine vehicles (ICE). Also they do not require the maintenance of ICE, last much longer and are much cheaper to run than ICE especially if you charge at home. Another great thing is they are very environmentally friendly because they do not spew pot toxix gasses like the petrol and diesel vehicles do. I hope I have enlightened you on what is now available to replace toxix ICE vehicles.

[@counterdebate]

Considering EV do not have a .... fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel pump, exhaust system, catalytic converter, gearbox, and a traditional engine... surely they should be cheaper than their ICE versions 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@mikezhang2351]

电池 电机 电控 不要钱么？😂😢

[@crm114.]

The battery is a significant cost component in an EV. However, battery prices are dropping like a stone and so will the cost of EVs.

[@johnbrown3471]

Development costs have to be factored in initially and no doubt production costs will reduce when the UK/Europe doesn't have to import most of the electrical components. There is almost the same amount of hardware you ignore the exhaust and cooling systems.

[@counterdebate]

​@@mikezhang2351 您提到的组件比我说的要便宜……这就是我的观点 don't know if google translated that right... what i said is "The components you mentioned are cheaper than what I said ...... That's my point!"

[@mikezhang2351]

​@@counterdebateok. as long as you have a long mileage and a convenient charger.

[@ashwayn]

crm114 had a thought a dim one crm114 have an electric car boot full of camping gear

[@crm114.]

Oh, stooped to personal insults just because you can’t defend your bs comments.

[@crm114.]

As I said, you’re not very bright, are you?

[@ashwayn]

@@crm114. you yarning for a gambit can you play back gammon ?

[@mblake0420]

They would have to be 25 percent the costs of petrol cars before i would wven consider one as a second car

[@MrDAVIDATKIN]

why?

[@ziggarillo]

That's just icebound thinking 😂

[@mblake0420]

@@MrDAVIDATKIN length of service life, depreciation, and a snooze fest to drive.

[@MrDAVIDATKIN]

@@mblake0420 depreciation is starting to look very similar to ICE now, fastest accelerating car I've ever owned by a country mile and I've owned 20 Each to their own I suppose.

[@GrahamWathey]

​@@mblake0420no, you haven't driven one have you?

[@rbir2653]

You need to pay a thousand quid to put a charger on your drive. You cant get house insurance. Forget it. Second hand petrol every time.

[@crm114.]

Complete nonsense, it’s not a question insurance companies even ask.

[@ziggarillo]

😂 absolutely ridiculous, I use a granny charger that cost £95. I charged my EV from 56% to 100% last night using free Octopus Agile electricity, and they paid me 22p. Insurance companies don't even ask about EV charging 😊

[@kng128]

I’m in the US. Pay for an at home charger and it will recoup the initial outlay in 12-16 months in petrol savings. It depends of course on the cost of electricity and how much I drive.

[@solentbum]

Two of my home chargers came free with the car (Government grants) . My house insurance didn't ask about EVs they did ask about the cameras covering the driveway.

[@usefulrandom1855]

Thats only if you want 7Kw charging. If like the average driver in the UK you do 20 miles per day then a normal 3pin plug at 2kw is plenty. It will give 8miles per hour so 8x6 hours(at least 6 but often more) will give 48 miles per night, over twice the average mileage per day. I put in a EV fuseboard/ 32a commando socket and cable for about £300. Even if you did spend the £1000 for a charger you would get it back in the first year anyway.

[@ashwayn]

If you like driving on a battery BOMB> its the same with solar panels and wind turbines they cost more to make and the pollution that they can make in a lifetime . if you go mad and buy a battery car you must also have in boot a full camping kit everything. for when the charging goes ape shit.

[@chrisw3771]

@ashwayn Solar panels have a 20 year life expectancy, wind turbines can run indefinitely. That's fair more power production than coal or oil. Driving a bomb? Do you understand that petrol burns? Have you ever actually seen an EV burn or explode as you suggest? I've seen plenty of ICE car fires, never electric and the current generation of batteries don't burn unlessintentionally ignited. The chemistry makes them near inert to the point you can shoot holes in them.

[@ashwayn]

@@chrisw3771 look on google scraped wind turbines you are off ya head wind turbines at sea are fucked after 20 years and I looked it up 10 years ago to relace a sea wind turbine blades cost over a 1,000,0000 £

[@ashwayn]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bWi8oGeCpdCmja8

[@ashwayn]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3i2ZGd7g9pniZY

[@steve6375]

Insurance costs? 2nd hand value? Average cost and time to repair? Availability of spares in 5-10 years time? Warranty? Will the Chinese car company still be in business in 5-10 years time? Everyone knows electronics only lasts 5 years. Aren't most new EVs just going to end up as scrap within 5 years - are they really good for climate change?

[@chrisw3771]

Insurance costs: Not that different from any other car. 2nd hand value: Depreciation is around the same as a ICE car, less in some cases. Availability of spares: Unless it's a car new to the market there's no issue, in the future they get broken for parts the same as any other car & many new parts are backwards compatible. (Try finding engine bearings for a 10 year old Nissan Duke however..) Warranty: Most of the 'new' Chinese companies have been around for years, just not in the UK market. Electronics lifespan: Are you sure it's only 5 years? There are plenty of 2010 Nissan Leafs on the road, look under the bonnet of any car produced in the last 30 years, there's an ECU controlling it. Some date back to the 80's & still start first time. Climate change? Initially they are not great for the climate then every mile they reduce their impact, ICE cars do not.

[@mikezhang2351]

mg was saved by the Chinese. since then, it has survived for many years.🎉

[@sandyfordd1843]

BYD are bigger than Ford. They also make and supply batteries and electric motors to many other brands, like Tesla and Hyundai.

[@sandyfordd1843]

"everyone one knows electronics only last five years" LOL, this is probably the weakest argument I have ever heard. Most EVs come with an 8 year battery warranty and million mile battery warranties are available on some brands. My ICE cars haven't even made 200,000 miles without major expensive repairs.

[@steve6375]

@@chrisw3771 re. electronics - I'm more concerned with all the fancy electronics in modern BEVs (not so much ECUs and battery) and availability of spares and order times. Insurance companies insist on repairs using original parts (not 2nd hand or alt. mfr).

[@davidkelly2542]

You don't need all this tech in a car. It's completely devoiding the driving experience, making it boring. More tech = more things likely to go wrong. There's nothing clever about buying a Chinese car either. They are taking over the car industry, ruining it effectively with ugly boring cars and damaging the automotive industry. Say NO to ev's!!!

[@solentbum]

When was the last time you were able to undertake a journey that was not boring (UK) whilst still driving in a safe and responsible manner. Have you considered that 'the driving experience' is a falsehood invented by the advertising industry to sell tin cans on wheels?

[@davidkelly2542]

@solentbum you clearly aren't a car enthusiast. You can still have fun in a car on the road without breaking the speed limit. You also don't need so much unnecessary technology, which is also a distraction when driving. Adds vehicle weight which damages our roads.

[@ashwayn]

he just rants on producers utter rubbish He is a Lunatic charge 7 hours petrol 10 mins

[@chrishar110]

You return from work, you plug it and get in your house. it charges when you have dinner, when you relax watching TV, or playng video games, when you are in bed, sleeping. For patrol you have to get out of your way, get in the patrol station, wait if there is a queue, stop in front of the pump, wait for 5 minutes in the cold holding the trigger at the pump, go inside to pay, return to your car drive to your destination. I charge for ten seconds, you still need 10 minutes to fuel your dino.

[@ashwayn]

and evs are huge and very heavy and will take ages to charge you just spewing manufacturers rubbish out wont work in Hills and over 60 MPH nor in heat do not mention the cold dont turn heater on and dont mention towing a caravan ha ha ha ha wont get half start charging set camp up

[@crm114.]

What a load of garbage. Does your mummy know you’re playing with the computer?

[@ashwayn]

@@crm114. < a stupid C look it up on line loon

[@crm114.]

@@ashwaynNot very bright, are you?

[@ashwayn]

@@crm114. bright is all you have go away my child

[@jerry24675]

The engineering in a combastion enjen is much more than electic machines. EV's should be much cheaper.