Are Fictional Women Inappropriately Designed? | Good vs. Bad

Women in video games, media, and entertainment are under perpetual scrutiny for their appearance... right down to the clothes they wear and the skin they show... but how should they be presenting themselves? How should they be dressing? Is there a right or wrong, a good or bad? Let's analyze and discuss ft. Bayonetta, Eve from Stellar Blade, Jessica Jones, Wanda Maximoff the Scarlet Witch, the Charmed Ones, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, Cordelia Chase, Illyria, Xena Warrior Princess, Regina George and Cady Heron from Mean Girls, and all the wonderful women from the sources below.
Sources:
Women In the Media | Isabelle Muresan | TEDxYouth@LincolnStreet
Looks aren't everything. Believe me, I'm a model. | Cameron Russell | TED
Why Diversity in Media Matters | Cindy Suryadi | TEDxYouth@WAB
What Feminine Clothing Taught Me about Self-worth | Charlotte Lieuwen | TEDxKerrisdale Women
Legend of Korra - Alex Papas
Mean Girls - Binge Society
Charmed - theEnchantedArt
Jessica Jones - CBR Presents
Kill Bill , Alien - Rotten Tomatoes Classic Trailers
Xena Warrior Princess - Nostalgia NZ TV Archive
Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Angel - Angel Clips
Hook 00:00
Women's Voices 00:17
Historic Misogyny 01:05
Intro 02:50
Stellar Blade's Controversy 03:05
"What is a woman" 03:41
Plot Devices 04:07
Agency 04:48
Why Bayonetta is Right 05:10
Other Fever Dream Females 07:07
Relatable Women & Controversy 07:30
Men Aren't Scrutinized 09:22
We Can Have Both 10:04
Finally Discussing Eve 10:55
Minding Our Own Business 11:33
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Jonathan Tompkins (Johto Jonny) is a Media Analyst known for his analysis on the gaming and entertainment industries. Thank you to all who subscribe, comment, and support us on Patreon.

[@johtojonny]

Don't forget to mention your examples here in the comments, and after check out my video on writing inspiring female characters!: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYicc2Bnl66cgsU

[@waddledeeart6019]

Honestly pretty simple- Give variety, and actually try for good character design...This applies to any character in my opinion. A protagonist in a post apocalyptic world should not be running around like its a day at the beach. There can be some suspension of disbelief, not everyone needs heavy armor, but put it in the realm of reason for god's sake- Too many games have the same damn avatar/character, with different genders to choose from, and suddenly the female option HAS to have bare thighs and heels?? From a narrative standpoint, that messes with the world building. If she's the same person as her male counterpart, and they're both fighters for example, why is she making things worse for herself by wearing heels and less protective clothing? Does she value her safety less than the guy?? Bayonetta is a supernatural witch who takes pride in her sense of style- So it makes perfect sense for her to look the way she does. Devs gotta stop taking the lazy repetitive way out, or stop making weird nonsese excuses for why their scantily clad character didn't die before the tutorial, dressed like that.

[@johtojonny]

This reminds me of when I played Xenoblade X and the only change of clothing I had for the longest time was a f*ing bikini which made no sense LMFAO

[@waddledeeart6019]

@@johtojonny I've heard xenoblade is notorious for this whole clothing debate thing...I think the last time I noticed this issue and really had to think about it hard, was with Byleth from Fire emblem three houses. The whole character is described as being emotionless and damn near robotic, with a dad who completely failed to inform them about how the world works- and yet Female byleth has a slight smile in almost all of her scenes, patterned lace leggings, pink details on her armor, and heels?? If she's so emotionless and practical, who got her the clothes!? Her dad, who didn't even tell her about the world's main religion!? It's always something that damages the immersion and the world building, sometimes not in a way that totally breaks it...But in a way that's so easy to avoid, and is so tiresome to see.

[@johtojonny]

​​@@waddledeeart6019yeah xenoblade is a huge offender. I sold both games I tried (x and 3) and won't touch the others either. Fire Emblem does that kinda thing a lot too. 3 Houses was especially jarring cuz it took itself so seriously. Engage makes a little more sense cuz the whole story is just a self aware clusterf*k so I don't mind the crazy designs in that one nearly as much

[@DeevaDB]

See this is why I’m subscribed ! That was a amazing video thank you 💜

[@johtojonny]

This means the world to me. Thank you!!!

[@timeeater2007]

That is a really good point. I was wondering why Byonetta feelt diffrent.

[@johtojonny]

A lot of people, I've noticed, couldn't put their finger on it

[@katelynsewell3928]

Gosh Jonny thanks for this video! I have seen whole arguments about female character designs and I been wanting to see you do a video regarding it! I’m happy I watched this and thanks again! Also what’s been happening with you? For me I Broke my foot doing laundry and I have to get surgery for it. Did a fun challenge with my mom where we try to eat more salad to lose at least five pounds. It was fun but my mom ended up getting tired of it even though the salads were great. Here’s the recipe in case you want to try it. Dried cranberries Sunflower seeds Yogurt ranch Croutons or tortilla strips Cold chicken Cheese Shredded carrots Boiled eggs Cucumbers 50/50 salad mix Finally tried One Piece and Pokémon Horizons and loved it. And just beat the shit of Jubileus alongside Cereza recently. Now I’m playing Bayonetta 2 right now and I’m still in wee hours of it so pretty fresh. Ok have a good day! 🍀

[@johtojonny]

Oh man you've been BUSY! For me it's been a lot of life stuff and work stuff (outside of KZbin, mainly dealing with trying to unionize) So happy to see you playing Bayonetta! 💙 Currently I'm playing Life is Strange 3 and Unicorn Overlord! (Also just replayed Bayo Origins for a 4th time!)

[@KateBergstrom]

Absolutely loved this! I’m not a gamer, but have had these questions and thoughts about characters. Laughed so hard at the Mario commentary. So true! Two thumbs up and a head twirl from your chatty Cathy cappuccino customer!

[@johtojonny]

OMG so glad you liked! I really have fun branching these conversations to more than just games so the fact you were able to sit along and enjoy the video as a non gamer on my channel makes me so happy!

[@jooberdoober60]

wasn’t Bayonetta designed by a women

[@johtojonny]

Yep. Mari Shimazaki

[@3mPeRaToR]

What skin? They are digital creations, they don't have skin. They're not showing anything 😂😂😂😂

[@johtojonny]

THANK YOU lmao

[@NagisaP]

loved this video, thanks! 💖

[@johtojonny]

So glad you liked it! Feel free to also give me some examples of characters you love and why 😁 Especially when it comes to how they present themselves / dress / carry themselves etc 😎

[@dustinyoungren758]

Beautiful example who has been through a shit load of tragedies from losing her parents, to have to train like a soldier, then to be adopted to the bird people, Samus Aran is a very beautiful woman. Very relatable, just like Solid Snake says to Otacon, "even through that cold hard exterior beats a heart of a woman."

[@johtojonny]

I love love love Samus 💘

[@MemeMeme-zf3tl]

Im not against sexy character who are women, but when most female characters are sexualised and the men rarely are (and not usually in the same 'oogling' way the wonen are) i can see why many think its a sensitive issue

[@johtojonny]

Yeah. Like I can really only think of DmC Devil May Cry doing anything remotely similar with its male lead

[@jamiekelly3113]

as a woman, i think women should women. thank you all

[@johtojonny]

🙌 halleloo!!!

[@Emily-rk4ps]

Woman to woman, nice DP

[@AcousticHarmonia]

The industry needs more sexualized men

[@johtojonny]

You're probably joking but I'm over here nodding along 😆

[@Cereza1411]

@@johtojonny I'm straight and agree. It feels good looking hot to women

[@johtojonny]

​@@Cereza1411heck yeah 😁

[@omegaredtooth5104]

Excellent.

[@daphenomenalz4100]

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is the lack of armor on female characters in some games, like you will have the same character when made male have an entire armor and what not (sometimes, you can't even customize them), but the same female char has virtually nothing to protect. I mean i know they want to appeal to male audience, but it's a war. Not having armor over fashion doesn't make sense 🤣 Also, why do female designs in game have more customizations 😢, like guys only get the basic customizations, that's so unfair man 😢 lol

[@johtojonny]

Agreed on all points. Look at Samus. She's in a full, superpowered suit, and people still love her. It looks cool, is practical, and in recent games shapes her body well enough to show there's a woman in the suit. Customization for men is getting BETTER but yes there are still many horrible offenders when it comes to balancing customization between genders

[@Godzilla_Star_Eater]

As a man, I've not once been able to play as a male character with my body type.

[@johtojonny]

Like they don't exist or you don't want to?

[@finnrogue9435]

I agree, maybe some of these designs are fanservice, and that fanservice may not be directed towards me, but is fanservice that bad?, that depends, because even though those designs give more variety for video game female characters, I don't feel like we really need more overly sexual female characters with exaggerated bodies and fanservice directed to the male gaze because that "variety" it's just more of the same, plus, the male characters from those games 99% of the times are not treated that way for obvious reasons, nonetheless I fully agree (with what should be the obvious ofc) that female characters are much more than just a body. Bayonetta will always be a great example of how to keep the balance in giving fanservice to horny guys but also creating a woman full of confidence, emotions, personality, incredibly powerful and with control of how she portrays her sex appeal, an icon!

[@johtojonny]

That's true. A lot of those big busty women seem to blend together. Like fire emblem and xenoblade. But Bayonetta's designs are all memorable. They're different. And her personality is baked into their design... whereas these other "women" have these exaggerated designs DESPITE their personality

[@lameduck7569]

(Apologies in advance for the long and terribly punctuated rant haha) random I know but I also never saw anyone complain about the dead or alive series especially 5 that had thousands of dlc costumes that were super hyper mega sexual and the mods that fans have made are even crazier and I love it 🤣 but iv heard little to no backlass to it and in fact was the opposite when the newest game Dead or Alive 6 came out it was receiving major backlash from guys and girls about how drasticly sexually toned down it was for those who don't know it its a fighting game series with majority female cast and while the default outfit of the characters are fairly normal the thousands of unlockable and dlc costumes are downright pornagrapic 🤣🤣 from costumes that just have soap bubbles coving their areas to a bikini made of chains, a small bath towel and destructible cloths with sweat,dirt and crazy jiggle physics that you can toggle from off to crazy and when you lose a fight instead of seeing the victory animation for the opponent you instead see your character on the floor breathing so heavy its practically moaning with them occasionally looking at the camera to basically say "dont i look sexy like this"🤣 But the most the men have in terms of sex appeal is just a few costumes with no shirt. I'm a gay man and I love playing the female characters in the most coolest, sexyiest cloths, it's cool to see badass and hot women do cool and impressive shit just as it is to see hot men do cool shit I wish they got the thongs and stuff like the women 🤣🤣🤣 and this is my top 3 fighting game of all time because not only does it have the sex appeal but its a super solid, and mechanically deep game with great graphics and feel to it but unfortunately gets overlooked or purposely ignored because of its hyper sexual tone. I won't even get into the spin off series 🤣🤣 I mainly play female characters but I will almost always choose the sexyiest looking outfits of both guys and girls because it just looks cool it's why beyo is one of my favourite games ever, she's confident,sexy,smart,caring,stylish and doesn't let anyone define her that's what makes her stand out from most if not all female characters

[@johtojonny]

Oh man I should've talked about Dead or Alive's jiggle physics 🥲 also... men's package jiggle physics when? 😏 seriously I'd love to see that in a game

[@lameduck7569]

@johtojonny haha you and me both 😂 unfortunately have to rely on mods for that for the time being 😂 I always have jiggle physics at max. if I'm fighting people or slaying monsters I might as well look good doing it 😂 I'll never see Re8 Chris the same again after the mods I've seen 😍🤣

[@princessyokaidoll8357]

Really said it diversity and gaming should be adding a wider variety of characters not restricting what type of characters be allowed Cause getting rid of all the big boobie video game characters slimming them down and giving them the same Action girl sarcastic personality It's just making things more homogeneous Now characters are looking a lot similar Trying appeal to the masses unfortunately best size was like one of the only body diversities female characters used to have and even that's taboo now So I say add more body types lit characters be fat like fat princess or muscular like Zaria add more characters instead of policing the past ones Like the goal should be making female characters as diverse and cartoony and exaggerated as the male ones not making them all the same because where's the fun in that where's the fantasyYou really want diversity make a black princess peach who gets to be soft and feminine and doesn't have to be strong or sassy all the timeMake a plus sized hyperfeminine grill who's the love interest and desirable a not a joke in a game But people like me who enjoy high professionality have are sexy or cute and frilly characters Thankfully what the polymba movement it seems the general population is embracing hyper femininity again so that should seep into games you know 30 or 40 years from now we've got That I guess

[@johtojonny]

Yeah in general I would love more diverse ethnicities and backgrounds for female characters, and very much to your point more art styles. You and I seem to agree cuz it's like I said in the video: why is Peach closer to human proportions while Mario isn't. Doesn't make sense. She should be made in a closer artistic style to him

[@advmx3]

I like when woman in games are portrayed like Aloy or Bayonetta (1 and 2), where they are strong, independent and NOT attached to any man romantically to be a good female lead. In both cases, one is stoic, courageous and accept not bulshit, can see through the logic instead of accepting mad people as prophets and bow to no one, not even people in power. The other literally uses all of the sexuallity it has as a weapon. You can see but you can't touch. She's powerful, but not only in her kicks and shots, but also the way she talks, the way she grunts when attacking, everything in her moveset screams I'm powerful AND sexy, and you will fear me for that, even if you desire me. Because you cannot touch me. And I think one very glaring example of HOW NOT to portrait a woman in game is Stellar Blade's Eve. She's sexy, but it's the Doll kind of Sexy. The idealized way man want a woman to be sexy. She's sexy but pretty, almost innocent. And even the sounds she does constantly feels slutty, not powerful. Every scream feels like she's moaning, and that's to me a bad point. I can barely watch a gameplay of that without feeling awful, like it's still possible to make my mom watch me playing Bayonetta, she would be horrified but at least would understand it's a funny silly game with a protagonist that is actually throwing her sexuallity as a weapon, while Stellar blade would make her feel in constant pain because most of the time it feels I'm seeing a sex doll walking around and moaning when attacking. No matter how good a game is, you can SEE when a game is sexualized and what's the public it aims for. And the public Bayonetta, Horizon and Stellar Blade aims for are completely different, but the first two do it with respect, while the other is to appease a very loud, very obnoxious gamer group that need to jerk off to fake woman, who probably see a normal woman online and call them fat and shame them. Simple as that.

[@Godzilla_Star_Eater]

Even Godzilla, the most alpha male of all time, is a father and has a romantic interest with Mothra. A powerful woman like Bayonetta being a mother and having a romantic interest only adds to her character. If Vergil, Mr Incredible, Superman, Batman, Godzilla, Sam Fisher can all be badass males with romantic interests and kids, then why can't women?

[@theoddone2992]

2nd!

[@johtojonny]

Yes you are 😎

[@1rkhachatryan]

Finally got around to watching this. My take on these female characters is that the VAST majority of "sexy" female characters are drawn by men and are walking stereotypes. And also that less clothing doesn't automatically equal sexy. This is why I love the new tomb raider games and how she's actually wearing realistic clothes but is still beautiful at the same time. I think if a woman wants to create a character and make her sexy, have at it, I just really dislike it when a man does it as it's usually not nuanced at all.

[@johtojonny]

Absolutely. Lara from the tomb raider reboot is a great example. Utility and class. And you're right, the vast majority of busty women you see are drawn by men and typically are also the ones written by men to have 0 personality outside of being a plot device or being objectified

[@1rkhachatryan]

@@johtojonny I also especially hate it in games where she's fighting enemies but is in the skimpiest outfit possible which offers zero protection lol.

[@Godzilla_Star_Eater]

​@@johtojonny I love female beauty but I hate those kinds of women. A good personality makes a woman more attractive. But I prefer the original Lara Croft. The reboot is less flawed, and I have a thing for characters who are more flawed, male or female 🤭 Like Vergil as a male example, or Zero from Drakengard 3 as a female example. The old Lara was kind of a psycho adrenaline junkie we're lucky isn't a bad guy. Bayonetta has flaws, but she's morally virtuous. I'm curious what you think about Zero from Drakengard 3. She's a former victim of (that kind of) human trafficking, who's extremely distorted by trauma in a corrupt cynical environment who trusts nobody and murders children for food, but also dedicates her life to stopping a world ending threats after getting magical powers, and the dragon she meets triggers her maternal instincts. A fairy in the game asks her if her pimp bought her outfit for her as an insult, and she's a genuinely sexually open character, and she even mocks another female character for being a virgin

[@Godzilla_Star_Eater]

Godzilla is one of my favourite male characters, and he's naked all the time, more than Bayonetta

[@johtojonny]

Is Godzilla male?!

[@Godzilla_Star_Eater]

@@johtojonny Yeah. Most Godzilla film's humans call him "he" and the name is Godzilla, not Godesszilla 😄 Other films called him it, like Shin Godzilla 2016

[@johtojonny]

​​@@Godzilla_Star_Eaternice! You must really love Bayonetta 3 then since you control Gamorrah so much in that game and he's so similar to Godzilla. His Sin form that Bayo uses several times looks even more almost exactly like Godzilla too 😂

[@IzzyVoodoo]

HARD DISAGREE on Bayonetta. Sure she has power, but there's no way she's not objectified. Name a male character that gets the same treatment as Bayonetta, and isn't played for comic relief. Hell, the one of the major marketing campaigns for the first game involved billboards where passers-by could assist in striping her naked, by removing one of the many small flyers that made up her clothing.

[@Godzilla_Star_Eater]

Men and women are different. Women are naturally more desired than men, so a man acting the same way would be funny because it wouldn't be seductive to women. And a lot of Bayonetta stripping is comic relief.

[@becuzMDsaidineededpersonality]

I was with you up until you mentioned Bayonetta. "NO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! SHE HAS TO TAKE OFF HER CLOTHES TO BE EMPOWERED! AND LIKE SHE MAKES JOKES ABOUT IT!!! SO IT'S TOTALLY COOL!!!" And then you go and defend Stella Blade. What??? What a way to fail at such an interesting nuanced topic.

[@johtojonny]

Have you played both games?

[@Cereza1411]

Bayonetta is right. Nice straw man though!? Bayonetta is bad in the animated movie. There is clearly a big difference.💖

[@Cereza1411]

@@johtojonny Bayonetta in the anime film Bloody Fate is what non-Bayonetta fans think Bayonetta is like.

[@FTChomp9980]

In my opinion a Female Character should look Feminine. Also wow I am early!

[@johtojonny]

Interesting. No variation whatsoever?

[@FTChomp9980]

@@johtojonny I would say no. I stand by what I said. Edit:When u mean Variation u mean Tomboy right along with the others? Because I don't mind the others.

[@banko-xv4rt]

must be a boring life

[@johtojonny]

So what constitutes femininity to you? I'm just genuinely curious 🥰

[@FTChomp9980]

@@banko-xv4rt I don't have a boring life it is just my opinion.

[@dieseltyme]

If you're using Jessica Jones as an example, then no. She wears mom jeans and a leather jacket. I bet she even wears boxers.

[@johtojonny]

I guess you didn't watch the video?