Are Human Genetics An Unfair Lottery? - Paige Harden | Modern Wisdom Podcast 387

[@brannon811]

I want you to know you are in the absolute top tier of interviewers, always have really thought provoking questions, good shit man

[@ChrisWillx]

No stopping this train. Big love man

[@davidelourenco2537]

@@ChrisWillx or was it genetic luck. Maybe you should share the profits with others with 'worst genetic profile' like a 'not geneticly desabled tax'. J k. Lol this was very close to Gattaca. I love the discussion nevertheless. Cheers!

[@IndoctReeducate]

A so called Florida man here loves your work. Keep it up ; very fruitful dialogue also! Note : Almost didn’t sign up for your newsletter when it brought me to your website and I was greeted by the greek god (*no homo) genetic lottery winner in the background lol. I thought I was signing up for playgirl’s newsletter for a second not the raw , timid , well spoken , entertaining Chris that I’m use to on KZbin 🤣

[@jesperburns]

I made it 35 minutes but this woman has truly mastered the art of speaking without saying anything.

[@richardmock3198]

I totally agree , a lot of word salad 😁

[@SandrineVoxServices]

So many say "like" every half a second, it's more than annoying, in her case I really tried to listen, it was excruciating. I had to stop listening.

[@LuisCarruthers]

Yeah I was expecting a hot, younger, female Charles Murray but so I am sadly disappointed.

[@seanhurley4003]

Haha I became skeptical and looked at "comments" when I heard her first few sentences of speaking style. "IT'S LIKE, I'm a professor, and I FEEL LIKE, there's something to preserve in our humanness in LIKE this day in age"

[@ridesharegold6659]

The vocal fry and uptalk are distracting enough. I'm sure there's something useful in here. I just wish she'd get to the point. Chris is a zen master of interviewers. I'd be losing my mind.

[@anthonypesola3294]

A meadow is only beautiful if you're not looking close enough. Upon deeper inspection, a meadow is like any other natural system. Full of death, competition and natural selection - inequality. The apparent order of the meadow is actually an insane disarray of chaotic systems all competing for space by consuming each other.

[@archaicsage4803]

That is what makes it beautiful.

[@fredmercury1314]

Pretty much true all things in the distance. Mountains look pretty until you on it, and it's just mud and rocks.

[@kurtdvet]

@@archaicsage4803 still saying it’s beautiful totally ignores the point

[@supremecaffeine2633]

@@kurtdvet There is beauty in the chaos and what it creates.

[@kurtdvet]

@Joel Harvey I understand what you're saying but the point Quiet Magpie is making and the point the speaker should have been making if she was an academician and not a social activist is that genetics favors beauty only when it gives the life form a competitive advantage over it's competitive species. You can sugar coat it but in reality life is designed to chew up anything that competes with it. Survival is THE only real concern.

[@ptyleranodon3081]

As someone who was diagnosed with ADD in my mid-thirties and has struggled progressing in a career, my first inclination is to say 'Yeah! Life isn't fair!'. But if I never had to fight through any of that I wouldn't have the mental fortitude that I now have. There is something that you gain from enduring hardship that could never be replaced by a government policy. When life gets too easy we are more likely to lose our sense of purpose. And depression has no income barrier.

[@ChrisWillx]

If you want to learn more about Behavioural Genetics, watch this - kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4rFlp2Doaief68. Here’s the timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:47 Why is Behavioural Genetics so Uncomfortable? 09:15 Defining Social Equality 15:22 How Genes Affect Education 22:13 Proposals for Progress 33:37 Surprising Genetic Correlations 44:40 Dealing With Unfair Equality 56:23 The Ethics of Altering Genetics for Equality 1:02:33 Is Communism Genetics-Friendly? 1:06:29 Where to Find Paige

[@idiotproofdalek]

This obsession with ‘equality’ has got to stop.

[@vklnew9824]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3aVg6ekbKxrhK8

[@iliyakuryakin4671]

Yes to equality of opportunity, no to equality of outcome. Those who talk of 'equality' usually want the latter while trying to fool people they're speaking of the former.

[@mboiko]

They say "equality/equity" but they really mean...socialism/communism.

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

No, the problem is is that people confuse the term with EQUITY.

[@johnglennmercury7]

Ask a leftist to degine it & hear them define "equity"

[@dionysius4353]

Answer to the title: yes. That’s why evolution is a thing and we’re not all just blobs

[@OblateSpheroid]

People fought for their genes to be widely distributed. To say that this gift from parent to child is unearned and comparable to a lottery is absurd. Genes are neither randomly allocated nor independent from human action or intentionality. Our parents fought for what we have today, including our traits. I was not a soul without characteristics at any point in my life, including at conception. I am a product of my ancestors and their struggle to survive and reproduce. Many people of different ancestors survived in Europe and in other parts of the world until they were replaced by other people. I am here because my ancestors displaced or destroyed those people. None of this was random. We are not empty souls with randomly assigned characteristics.

[@jamestucker4800]

@@OblateSpheroid many of the sages affirm that genetics are karmic, we are brought into this world to undo negative karma and to an extent our genetics reflect that

[@anthonypesola3294]

"No man is more unhappy than he who never faces adversity (has to work). For he is not permitted to prove himself (have purpose)." - Seneca

[@smoath]

We can't let nature get in the way of equality 🤣 we know best, let's engineer everything. What could go wrong?

[@paulrevere47]

Quality skepticism there...good on ya.

[@vklnew9824]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3aVg6ekbKxrhK8

[@insertnamehere8121]

@Lisa Bell Notice Lisa's out of the gate manner & tone, versus the claims and accusations she makes against complete strangers. Cripplingly self oblivious, woe to the poor [redacted] thats gotten themselves caught up in that mess.

[@mattmattmatt131313]

@Lisa Bell "You don't have a right to reproduce unless someone who you want to reproduce with wants to reproduce with you. It's a mutual decision kinda thing." I agree. But then you immediately follow with some of the "safeguards" to the female reproductive behavior. You mention bodily autonomy (I assume this means abortion) and access to birth control, so methods of controlling the natural progression of pregnancy. Women's ability to financially support themselves, which women lose when they are pregnant/raise infants unless further "safeguards" are introduced. Like you mentioned welfare state, which you are not a fan of, but it is a factor of modern mating dynamic. All of these work to the detriment of the male role in reproduction. Things that were never present in our evolutionary past. A pregnant woman alone in the past would more WILLINGLY (in a "mutual decision kinda thing) bond herself to any man that would take her and provide the resources and protection that she needs for the survival of her and the baby, whereas today (with the safeguards) she can do that completely alone. Also do not assume there is no coercing of the male side as well. There is coercion in extraction of male's resources in the form of taxes, that are then through the state transferred to women in the form of healthcare, social welfare, child programs... There is coercion in the form of child support and alimony, again a transfer of wealth to a woman you are no longer in relationship with. Taking away one of the biggest bargaining advantages a man holds in a relationship, which is the ability to walk away. And many other examples. My point being... Be careful that with all your hatred or belittlement of the incels you seem to be so against, that you are not the one creating them.

[@DeadlyPlatypus]

@Lisa Bell Yes. These incels are *everywhere*, they hold so *much* power. Publications *frequently* advocate for their cause with political puff pieces about why it's *men's* fault that women can't find "good men." Yes, they have a terrible attitude...it's just that they're as rare as talking goats, unlike the violent misandrists that call men scum on Twitter and run entire "academic" departments in universities.

[@CONEHEADDK]

If genetics weren't very important, women would not be picky..

[@thijsjong]

Yes women and men are instantly attracted to someone beautifull. Wich is a signal of good genetics. Height symmetry etc.

[@CommandoMaster]

Height, facial symmetry, jaw line, brow, hairline, and shoulder width.

[@CONEHEADDK]

@@CommandoMaster Self confidense, intelligence.. Those two things can over rule the others - if the men get to interact, where the women can see watch them. "No" female prefers a "beautiful" man, that has no balls - because her male kids like him won't be very good at spreading her genes.. That's why ladies looove "creeps" that hit on everything with a puls those special days of the month, where they can be impregnated..

[@CONEHEADDK]

@Richard Which ones do I have to chose from - if you believe, there are more than one?

[@johnglennmercury7]

Yup. Show me a woman who doesn't ruthlessly discriminate when choosing a mate & I'll show you a messy divorce ahead...

[@DemetriPanici]

I've been reading a fair amount about this and it's interesting how much is predetermined at birth. I view it as being born with scales having certain weights on them and you can still overcome some things but it's harder for others and easier in certain circumstances

[@ChrisWillx]

Nice way to put it. “Not predetermined, but definitely predisposed” Plomin calls it.

[@CONEHEADDK]

The problem is, that lots of people are "useless" for others, but still want "the same" as those who are helpfull to some, or even many.

[@tomingrassiaimages8776]

Excellent description of reality.

[@watsongames5543]

@@ChrisWillx Chris please have Stephen Molyneux on, you would really enjoy speaking to him, he's an anarchist philosopher, similar beliefs to Michael Malice but more informed on anarchism and not a troll... Not that I don't love Michael

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

@@blazefa. You have the free will to overcome your beginnings.

[@CommandoMaster]

The biggest/most obvious difference in genes is your physical attractiveness (which this woman seemed to ignore completely). Men who are tall are generally going to do well in dating more attractive women. Women who are hotter/more beautiful will be given a lot more power/opportunities in dating, social media, men paying them/giving them free stuff, etc.

[@davyroger3773]

Physical attractiveness is also supposed to be an indicator of underlying fitness either in mating or in fighting off disease

[@shanesawyer5103]

Thanks for explaining something literally everyone understands.

[@joan3891]

And that’s why understanding basic human nature, stages of life, and biology are such valuable things to comprehend on some fundamental level. You can’t be an effective parent or partner without this basic 101 knowledge. Somehow the bare bones basics have been lost.

[@Batosai11489]

It makes me feel uneasy when I listen to a person explain her positions and perspectives for an hour and still don't really know any of them. Maybe the lines of conversation strayed far from her expectations. But I don't think they were bad questions. It almost felt like, she was interested in a field and had some prior political positions and tried to mix them together and use the field to justify the political positions even though the link is quite weak. Or maybe she was really reluctant to state her actual position which I suspect is along the lines of "people are not dealt equal hands from birth and because of that, it is the lucky ones' ethical responsibility to give to the unlucky ones and forgive their general failings."

[@ct4074]

Had she been blunt about it like Stephan Molyneux she would have been fired from her job. Stephan Molyneux was cancelled for stating scientific fact: We're not all born with the same i.q. But Woke cult morons, and they are morons, are butt hurt because they can't handle the truth. Surprise, surprise.

[@sarahtar]

The whole interview seemed like she wasn't really sure what she was talking about. Like, yes, she had policy positions and then jammed the academic field she was interested in into that box. That she kept wandering off her point didn't help at all. Contrast with Benjamin Boyce's recent interview with Heather Hying, who almost seemed surprised at some of the conclusions she ended up making after following her science (evolutionary biology) to their logical ends.

[@sarahtar]

And I don't disagree with what I thought was her basic point - that genetics plays a pretty big role. The book Human Diversity is a great read re this topic.

[@lr6477]

The vocal fry and constant use of the word like got me good

[@pfzt]

@@ct4074 Spot on. People (especially women) like fancy words around bitter truths.

[@mrsrabbit2712]

If you're alive, it's fair. People should quit bitching about things they can't change, and utilize that which they actually have the power to do.

[@paulrevere47]

Hear here...!

[@MrChristian331]

well said

[@anthonypesola3294]

We were all the combination of a fertile egg and successful sperm- at least if you're reading this. We all won the genetic lottery. Everything else we do is down to our actions and reactions.

[@i486DX66]

People complain about equality...then go eat an animal.

[@danepaulstewart8464]

I think your point Mrs Rabbit is exactly how each individual should look at it, or how we should look at it when we are discussing what a particular individual should do to be successful. However, this persons work, and the research results she is presenting, are primarily about measuring or analyzing populations. Whether a local population or the global population. It is in that case that it becomes a discussion of what we might want to do as a society in order to help push towards an outcome that we all benefit from more, or at the very least one that has less risk of things or people being a drag down on the whole society since we are all in the society and cannot escape these kinds of effects. 👍👍

[@craigb4913]

Seems like she's trying to achieve two incompatible objectives: To tell the truth (as she sees it) about behavioral genetics, at the same time show a commitment to "social justice & equality" which she never clearly defines. Hard to square that circle.

[@squatch545]

She clearly defined it. Try paying attention.

[@jmac3327]

Notice that at no time does she ever address the issue of culture, the third rail for garden variety leftists.

[@ct4074]

Stephan Molyneux was cancelled for stating scientific fact: We're not all born with the same i.q. But Woke cult morons, and they are morons, are butt hurt becuse they can't handle the truth. Surprise, surprise.

[@bruceparker6142]

@ Joel. Exactly. For some reason people speak as if culture is something separate from the particular group.

[@ct4074]

@@JeffCaplan313 That's in the politicians' tool box, never let them know just how dumb they are, but rather how smart they are for believing in them ---- off a cliff.

[@matthewleitch1]

Smarter, more educated people are healthier and live longer now because today we know what you need to do to be healthy and live longer. This allows the smarter, more educated people to make better decisions about their lifestyle and healthy and to use their resources to get more/better help from experts (who now really can help very often). All levels of person are living longer now, but especially where the patient acts wisely.

[@MrChristian331]

It doesn't matter, most colleges ain't worth shit today anyway.

[@ct4074]

Right! They're actually doing the opposite, indoctrinating morons for political control to benefit the ruling class. Nothing new under the sun.

[@ohsweetmystery]

No one owes anyone else anything except that which has been explicitly agreed upon. The only people who owe you anything are the ones responsible for your creation, so that would be your parents and possibly a fertility team. We should NEVER practice eugenics and people should always be allowed to make their own reproductive decisions, but we should also allow the chips to fall where they may. Help out people as an individual and don't enact societal laws to force others to support YOUR causes.

[@jakecostanza802]

Yeah, but if the government passed a law that prohibited our parents from having kids a lot would be prevented. So, I blame the government.

[@SeanCosgrove1]

It's strange when someone in a country like America points out that some people in America are luckier than others when it comes to things like intelligence. But it's always strange that they never zoom out to compare our bottom 20% to the rest of the world. People in America are pretty lucky. If you make $40k/year, you're in the global 98th percentile.

[@squatch545]

The closer you get to the absolute bottom, the more similar the very bottom in each country is.

[@CommandoMaster]

Most privlegded people living in 1st world countries don't see their privlegde/wealth. They always come up with some small problem that they need to argue about.

[@kaylachristenson9664]

You’re not in the global 98th percentile with those earnings. Without children that would be around the 97th percentile globally, but with 1 child it’s the 90th percentile. It’s just misleading and more complicated than that.

[@SeanCosgrove1]

@@kaylachristenson9664 Why would you mix the figures like that? Obviously the figure is for individuals. Also if you have a child you have a potential 2nd person earning income. It's not at all misleading, but even with your correction, if you have a child and earn $40k, you're still better off than 9 out of 10 people, which was the point.

[@SeanCosgrove1]

@@squatch545 Being in the 5th percentile in Haiti and the 5th percentile in the US are two totally different worlds.

[@peaknonsense2041]

"We" didn't devalue hard manual labor. Feminism chasing hypergamy devalued that labor. I've not been "working class" who's done hard manual labor for a long time but did do it for a long time and my wife and I give our garbagemen and people who truly make civilization function gifts every year for Labor Day and Christmas.

[@SeanCosgrove1]

She makes an assumption a couple times that "society" suggests that being a college professor is seen as a better job than being a tradesman. I respect someone who can build or fix things for people a lot more than someone who liked school so much they never left.

[@Luixxxd1]

the same "society" is slowly rejecting academia for the same reason, they became a circlejerk of assumptions and anything outside is either wrong, misinformation or simply pseudo-scientific. Elitist as fuck

[@wendellbabin6457]

I think an argument could be made that this isn't "society", but females in society. Good old fashioned hypergamy. Don't know if this lady is married or cis-whatever-the-latest-PC-ism is, but I think just about any male in "society" could predict whom she would choose to even DATE given a choice between a mechanic and a PhD of ANY discipline. Even though a mechanic with his own shop/business could probably easily pull down twice what some Ivory Tower egg head could. And what his income was wouldn't matter at all. And this isn't even hypocrisy necessarily, just Biology. I am certainly not much of a Bible-thumper, but even it says to effect of there is NOTHING new under the sun. Same people (Biology), same problems.

[@WildWestTrail]

Measuring people's intelligence based on their education, says the college professor. Not biased at all

[@jackdallwitz5086]

A friend of mine is a diesel mechanic, who maintains mining equipment, and his older brother did a doctorate in pure maths at Yale. They're both very, very smart, and I don't know which one makes more money... Might be well be the diesel mechanic. I do have a fair idea which one smoked more weed, though!

[@squoblat]

Chris, you have a very charming way of keeping your interviews on the rails.

[@MyOrangeString]

Chris, you're an amazing interviewer. Please continue working at your craft! It's a joy.

[@Macheako]

There's literally *nothing unfair about it* .......this is what being a part of "ManKind" is about...... *Deal With It*

[@paulrevere47]

Spot on, we are here to accept and live with responsibility, empathy, kindness and as high minded a life path as we can struggle to do.

[@ohsweetmystery]

Blame your parents, not society, if you are not happy with how you turned out.

[@ryandury]

What does that even mean? Inequality is built into human kind, i.e. it is unfair: but how we confront those inequalities is more of a moral question, rather than a biological fact. If a family member suffered from some physical ailment, whether it's cancer or a horrible accident, I would imagine your response wouldn't be "Deal With It" ...

[@reuvenpolonskiy2544]

@@ryandury A. Society is not a family B. Even among family members, eqauilty is not needed and is impossible. A family member that is in truble needs help, not equality.

[@ryandury]

@@reuvenpolonskiy2544 you've misunderstood. I agree that equality is not needed and impossible.

[@GlennBrownOz]

So many words... so little actual meaning. It all boils down to understanding yourself, countering your weaknesses, understanding your strengths, and facing life as if no one owes you damn thing.

[@ChrisDragotta]

You can approach life that way, but that does not negate what she is saying. Or maybe that attitude is heritable.

[@rodsanh5189]

You're sounding like a feminist talking to incels.

[@readwriter]

Wow, she's the Queen of industrial-strength vocal fry!!!...is it genetic?

[@corydeansmith]

The thumbnail to this video said "Are Genetics a Nightmare for Equality?" What if the question were reversed... "Is Equality a Nightmare for Genetics?"

[@SuperiorMoon]

She has some good research but I get the feeling that her personal biases infiltrate some of her conclusions

[@StephensCrazyHour]

Same as everyone else eh? 😉

[@jeffa847]

I seriously laughed out loud when she said the hardest job she ever had was as a waitress. Wow. I have had a lot of different jobs and waiter was the easiest I ever had. The only thing that made it hard was the other restaurant staff. A lot of our problems have their genesis in academics like her who have done nothing but skate through life absorbing the poorly thought out and untested ideas of people exactly like them with no wisdom or real-life experience to inform those ideas.

[@tranquil2706]

What does that have to do with the points she is making? Stupid putdown. Pay attention and you may learn something.

[@rockbarcellos]

@@tranquil2706 the point is that she's pretty much out of touch with reality and engaging in pure magical thinking when she says dumb shit like "oh why should we work so much?" or "why is one job more valued than another?", and that these things are purely just choice instead of just being based on how reality and nature works. That's the kind of thinking that comes from people so lost in the academia mindset that they simply don't know how reality works anymore, specially for most people outside of their world

[@NewVideoTech3000]

Imagine a world where everyone is similar, we will be like ants

[@danepaulstewart8464]

I think about this point you’ve made quite a bit, and I get stuck when I try to get a reading on just how similar or dissimilar to each other we actually are. There is a clear argument to be made that if we look, we will see enormous amounts of variation among human beings around the world. But a see an equally robust argument to be made that we are all 99-percent identical to each other if we consider all the things that humans do. But it’s a darn INTERESTING question regardless of which side of these answers one gravitates towards. 👍👍

[@vklnew9824]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3aVg6ekbKxrhK8

[@fredmercury1314]

@@danepaulstewart8464 We're socialised to be similar. We all got through the same education system, are raised by people with similar life experiences, and have our own similar life experiences. If you want to see how dissimilar humans could be, look to the people who weren't socialised properly.

[@HumbertoRamosCosta]

1) Even ants aren't so similar, they have at least a Queen. 2) Also if ants from another hive are treated like aliens. 3) All tries to make human totally equal failed. 4) There is also an far easier way to check this: brothers and sisters. Almost the same DNA, almost the same wealth and they can be very different.

[@jakecostanza802]

Do you mean everyone isn’t similar?!

[@mrpablomx]

Basically it's about being grateful with what you've been given at birth, and not being an asshole to people who haven't been as lucky as you + not pretending that your effort is 100% the reason for your success.

[@ridesharegold6659]

I went to school in a pretty average, middle class district. Some kids were obviously very smart from an early age. Some of those kids are very successful today. Some of them were beat down by their family situation. There were very few dumb kids even if there were some kids who had what would be called today, " behavioral problems." A good friend really struggled in school. He's not dumb. It just took him awhile to find his niche. He's a very successful electrician now. For me, I think the discussion around genetics is pointless. Our schools just need to be better at fighting out what kids are best suited for. Not taking away kids choices - just building on their strengths.

[@Schopenhauer69]

What's amazing to me is that this is still a talking point. I was able to observe this as a dumb teenager. Some people are just better than you. I've seen people work their asses off to get a B while others study like the night before and get an A+. And intellect is just one area. A better example is physical appearance. There's not one person here who can tell me that they haven't come across that one girl/guy who everyone found attractive.

[@StephensCrazyHour]

Yep exactly. There's obviously a huge genetic factor in success of any kind. I'll never be a world class sprinter or ballerina, but nor will Kimi Raikkonen and he seems to have done OK for himself.

[@Schopenhauer69]

@@StephensCrazyHour true. Environment, individual effort, social circumstances and just sheer luck go a long way in determining outcomes. No doubt about that. But to deny the existence of obvious genetic advantages is ridiculous.

[@TheNaturalLawInstitute]

Kathryn hits it out of the park with the question "How would we design school as if we didn't hate teenagers?" That's the correct answer. There is a reason that in the past we had "captains of sailing ships' that were twelve years old, and generals who were fourteen years old. However, for example, she is confused by the constraint over trying children as adults for violent crime, which only requires control over body, with limiting their ability to engage in driving (increasing potential to hurt others), alcohol (increased potential to hurt others, especially when driving), and voting (increased potential to hurt others unaccountably - combined with ignorance of the world that only comes from family, industry, and military.).

[@ezpz489]

"You work, you eat"... contribute what u can, be kind, rescue who u can, stand against the wicked and things will work out for you.

[@Batosai11489]

She definitely is elevating "college professor" a bit to high. I tend to think of them as leaches who live in a bubble and generally have no idea what real work is and rely on student debt to pay their salaries and justify their existence.

[@mikemac1298]

An rich/upper-middle class white woman. Was there ever any question she was on the Left..?

[@squatch545]

Huh? There are more rich/upper middle class people on the right than the left. You need to get outside more.

[@mikemac1298]

@@squatch545 No. You need to read more. There has been several studies that showed the average Democrat makes way more money than Republican. It used to be opposite though. Your running on outdated information.

[@squatch545]

@@mikemac1298 LMAO! Fucking bullshit. What "studies"?

[@mikemac1298]

@@squatch545 It's all over the internet. Just look it up. Dems are the party of the rich. This ain't 1985.

[@squatch545]

@@mikemac1298 Then why are Republicans always advocating for tax cuts for the rich? Why are they the party of billionaires and Fortune 500 companies? Why was Trump bragging about being a billionaire and used this as a point in favour of leading the Republican Party? Why is it the Republican Party the one talking the most about free markets and trickle down economics and helping wealthy business owners become even more wealthy? Why is the republican Party the one against unions, against the min. wage, against welfare, against helping the poor, and working class, etc? I mean, why make up a stupid lie that is so obviously false that anyone can check "all over the internet".?

[@rickyhan7023]

Thanks for putting that quote first. That’s all I needed to hear about her.

[@ryanmoore2047]

Ita funny how people think a doctor owes them their time and skill, but they wouldn't be that way with any other profession... 🤷‍♂️

[@carlotapuig]

How could a lottery be "fair"?

[@skwest]

How is a lottery _unfair,_ in your view? (serious question - no snark)

[@carlotapuig]

@@skwest The win is not distributed equally among all participants. One takes all and the rest have nothing. The winner is not chosen by merit, effort or achievement of any kind. By definition, it doesn't get less fair than a lottery. I understand what you mean though.

[@skwest]

@@carlotapuig Well, I'm not even sure that I've worked out what I "mean", but I have come to the conclusion that it's something worth thinking about. On the one hand, no man is an island. However, this, so-called, lottery is so very complex, that I can't imagine assigning fairness, or unfairness to it. It has so many constituents. There's not just the genetic lottery: There's the social-standing lottery; The early-life-experience lottery; The I-got-bullied-and-will-now-rise-above lottery; etc. Does that make sense?

[@carlotapuig]

@@skwest I thought you meant a lottery (the game) could be fair. Yes, in the sense that all participants agree on playing that game voluntarily, all know the rules and play under the same rules. In that sense a lottery would be fair.

[@johnglennmercury7]

​@@carlotapuigI don't think your definition of "fair" is all that robust. An unfair lottery wouldn't be if the draw involved some cheating in favour of certain people. I think you need to loom up the definition.

[@searose6192]

I think genetics sets the limits of potential, and environment determines how much of that maximum potential a person reaches. This also means that parents and environment generally can reduce something like a child's IQ through abuse, neglect, deprivation etc but can not *increase* the outcome beyond the genetic potential. Put simply, parents should do whatever they can to avoid harming their children's upbringing while not delusional believing that they can put their infant in front of Baby Einstien and they will raise his IQ by 15 pts.

[@wendellbabin6457]

Or expect the school "system" to either. Doesn't even matter what system. Plenty of literature on private school outcomes tied to screening for best students to begin with. More a matter of public school not ruining their enthusiasm for learning or dragging them down into mediocrity than improving their chances these days.

[@CHGLongStone]

Genetics aren't a nightmare for equality, they're a nightmare for basics who can't comprehend complexity and the emotionally underdeveloped who want feel good answers

[@GreenEyesPurpleDragon]

She's absolutely right. The ones who disagree are the ones who won and want to say they earned what they've got. Meanwhile my life was ruined because I lost and never had any control over the situation. It is absolutely evil...

[@jameseldridge3445]

Unfortunately life isn't fair.

[@MichaelJonn]

This woman is an activist. Thanks for trying to steer the conversation towards just the science Chris, but sometimes you just can't help people who feel that their ideology trumps everything else. Good effort though. You usually have really great guests on, but this one was a big L. I listened to maybe 20 minutes and realized that she was just rambling on and on and saying nothing. So I stopped learning to the rest. Can you try to maybe get the british nurse covid-19 researcher John Campbell onto the podcast? Or maybe the psychologist Theodore Dalrymple?

[@squatch545]

So 'activist' is now a swear word? I guess that makes Charles Murray an activist.

[@DigitalNomadOnFIRE]

Like oh my gaaaaad, like some of the best vocal fry I’ve heard in a while….

[@svenhans662]

She is channeling the power of Elizabeth Holmes. Why do women do this? surely, they must know men aren’t fooled by it.

[@Clem62]

I think it's like a social contagion. It was first noticed, by a reporter on 60 minutes, about 15 years ago.

[@elkabongg2716]

@Lisa Bell Of course it's intentional. People adopt all sorts of speech mannerisms for effect, Her voice is not naturally that low. A female affectation that has become fashionable in the last 20 years or so to make a statement sound significant and incontrovertible. If you follow women who do this you notice they switch it on and off according to who they talk to. I suspect she is not aware of the extent of the habit and will probably grow out of it after a while.

[@elkabongg2716]

I wanted to listen to the conversation and initially found her interesting but after a while all I could hear was the croak.

[@jesperburns]

@Lisa Bell _"Nobody is doing "vocal fry" on purpose"_ Then what is there specifically in the American valley waters that makes them *ALL* do this? There's not a woman in my entire country that talks remotely like this. "Like yah" And sure, disliking this very specific way of speaking *must* victimise *all* women. Get a grip.

[@Bjorn_R]

The vocal fry on american women is just brutal. Read about it possibly being related to a lower pitch being perceived as having more authority. Perhaps you could look into that Chris?

[@ridesharegold6659]

It's not "American women." This is the, "I'm one of the coastal, liberal elites" status symbol. I live and work in Florida. In a large,l government office. Lots of women ages 22-65. No one talks like this. You hear this in academia, on the periphery of it, and occasionally outside of it in big cities in California or the Northeast. When I hear it the message is, "I'm insufferable. Run."

[@daniel.lopresti]

I'm always curious how many other people are infuriated by this (or whether they even notice it, having been so accustomed to it), and if not, why. I cannot listen to more than 5 minutes of someone speaking like that, a comment I also made above. It's ear-gratingly painful.

[@emilymunton9978]

The massive impact of the modern diet - vegetable and seed oils, sugars and mass grains have a tangible impact on cognitive function from mood (anger and depression) to problem solving and energy. Medical care is important but ensuring that kids have eggs, quality animal protein and saturated animal fats would make a massive improvement to overall outcomes

[@fredmercury1314]

I recently start having a mug of bone broth every day. A lot of my digestive issues seem to have calmed down and I have so much more energy!

[@richardmock3198]

Totally agree 😁👍

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

Genetically-based diets ARE a thing. Maybe pediatricians should hand them out to parents?

[@susantroupe9341]

One big reason psychotic homelessness exists is the closing of most of the mental institutions in the 70’s, and using pharmaceuticals to take the place of human mentorship for these individuals.

[@matthewleitch1]

Human genetics are not an unfair lottery. An unfair lottery would be something like a draw where someone is cheating. You can give your children improved odds by having children with a genetically very 'fit' other person, but that's about it and I don't think we consider that unfair. Everyone knows how that game works. Some people get a great genetic advantage by luck. That's not unfair. It's just one of those things. Nobody cheated to make that happen.

[@gromba]

If you are genetically unfit you are not likely to mate with someone genetically fit.

[@lloovvaallee]

How did that valley girl accent seep into Texas? We're all doomed ...

[@NoirL.A.]

of course it is how can anybody possibly deny it? i am a "low status male" and i freely accept that i was born with certain disadvantages (asperger's, adhd, somewhat bi-polar) and never benefitted from any form of nepotism to speak of. every human birth is a crapshoot that's how our species has evolved which is why eugenics will never work people have been trying to do it for centuries and if anything it leads to inbreeding. dogs, horses and pigs can be specially bred for certain characteristics human beings and the entire primate family for that matter cannot. just because mom and dad are beautiful and smart guarantees nothing. and now the convo. nobody's ready to have. mother nature screwed the human female to the max NOT MEN. the vast majority of issues feminists and other such have with straight males (gay males get a pass) are things that should rightly be blamed on mother nature. MEN did not give you periods, MEN did not make you smaller or take away your upper body strength, MEN did not give you a body wholly unsuited to child birth. and, of course, alot of the less adimrable aspects of human male nature exist because THE HUMAN FEMALE selected for those traits by mostly only breeding with those males. ever heard the expression "the biggest man haters are also the biggest jerk lovers"? but of course "mother nature" is an abstract men are in the flesh so it's not hard to figure out who the majority would prefer to blame.

[@ridesharegold6659]

42:30 - This is a horseshit argument. I have a post-grad degree, I don't make a shit ton of money. My electrician friend with a 2 year degree from community college makes more than I do. I'm not mad about it. I made a choice that I'm happy with. The reason retail/service is low paying is because almost anyone can do it so the labor pool is vast - especially in a country with virtually unlimited illegal immigration for decades. I voted for $15 minimum in my state. I'd like to see it closer to $17. But that's going to mean a continued restriction on low skill migrants to maintain a shortage of low skill labor.

[@weeb3277]

She alluded that rich people live longer. But she didn't say by how much. I wonder if it's similar to the difference of men and women.

[@jeupater1429]

I'd like to see her evidence that rich ppl in the past didn't live longer than the peasants. Pretty sure life expectancy was about 35 for the masses for most of history. Yet, many important figures are known to have lived to 80+. If you're talking about infant mortality, then sure the rate is probably similar, because they weren't able to prevent that regardless of wealth, but if you're telling me that the rich in the past died as young on average as the poor, you're full of it.

[@Harsha-D311]

@@jeupater1429 she meant their kids Their offsprings Rich people could afford multiple kids n could give them all necesatities

[@laa2871]

I look forward to conversations completely void of the word 'like'.

[@stevecooper7883]

Chris makes girls nervous 😅

[@DigitalNomadOnFIRE]

With few exceptions university is a TERRIBLE idea for almost everybody. You start with a huge debt and can earn more without a degree in many fields

[@thijsjong]

For many occupations a degree is required. Those jobs could be done just as well or better by autodidacts or people who learn and adapt very quickly. But employers want a safe bet and have so many applicant with a university to chose from. its stupid really.

[@jamestucker4800]

This is making the assumption that EVERYONE lives in the USA, which is a typical belief for Americans who don't realize that not everyone lives in the USA.

[@jmac3327]

And how would she know that one has "not earned" it? Shocking.

[@RandoomDude]

"People fear restraint" is the key takeaway

[@alfredjohnsson1120]

IQ is immutable at this moment. What will be the consequences of CRISPR in the near future? Questions after questions.

[@edenbreckhouse]

If we want to have a discussion about equality then talking about genetics is the elephant in the room. Genetics gives me my height, my looks, my intelligence. If the genetic lottery isn't on my side then my life outcomes are demonstrably worse. So all those who bang on about racism or sexism, talk instead about this.

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

But how do you control for genetic differences whe doling out equal rights?

[@SzechuanChickenDog]

You're killing it dude! I feel like you should have 50x the views you get though. The algorithm is biased AF

[@ChrisWillx]

We’ll get there eventually. Comment for the Algo Gods.

[@robertallen6013]

you confuse equality of outcome wit equality of opurtunity which in the end is as good as it gets

[@squatch545]

You can't have one without the other.

[@jimmorris8927]

Why do people continue to use the term "right wing" when it is simply common sense or conservative?

[@DaveE99]

Since when is it common sense? It’s as much genetic as some of these other traits. It’s just basically your personality dressed up with words. Though the right is much lower on openess to experience on big 5. Because of that and the also psych trait of being higher on “need for closure” and also have Inf a larger than average right amygdala (fear processing). It can often come off and play out in a very closed minded kinda toxic at times world view.

[@jimmorris8927]

@@DaveE99 what are you talking about?

[@Mark1JT]

Life is an unfair lottery, no amount of intervention will change that and in all likelihood will make things worse. As Sowell says there are no solutions only trade offs. Part of our issues in modern times is not wanting to acknowledge that we're not that far removed from our cave dwelling ancestors. You can take the caveman out of the cave but not the cave out of the caveman. So many people want to attach everything to social and/or culture. To answer the question "what do we owe the freeloader??" Nothing, nothing at all. I have a feeling Mrs. Harden's beliefs are typical of people in Austin, TX, very much concerned about equality and possibly equity. It seems at heart she has pretty strong socialist leanings politically. The idea of holding someone back to let someone else get ahead is abhorrent to me.

[@williamdouglass2926]

She strikes me as someone who has managed to gather most, if not all, of the peices of the puzzle but can't quite put them all together correctly. Smart but not necessarily wise.

[@kevb3047]

Well said, lots of us, at least me, go thru this as maturing, 'put it all together' / or just deeply understand

[@wendellbabin6457]

Like a LOT of "academics". Especially these days. I may be wrong, but I think back in the "old days", that was why you could not go college and progress "straight through" to a PhD in any field(s) but Law and Medicine because schooling was so long. I mean a specialist would have only practiced 10-15 years before lifespan was up. Other fields had to go out in REAL world and do REAL things in their fields before they could go back to college for advanced degrees.

[@stanweaver6116]

People’s differences in proclivities and abilities are immutable, our tendency to assign different values to the various types of either are the “social dynamic”. Understanding that the differences are genetic is grade school level. Teaching people not to gather into groups that alienate each other is the tough bit, and being able to classify them by genetic differences may facilitate educational streams but won’t help with the tough bit.

[@philipfitzsimons7540]

@ 30:00 This is a more open and interesting convo than I expected. Liberals need better plans ! Industry is currently crippled by red tape and ‘officialdom’. It’s a nice sentiment to opine for a humanitarian equality but how do you implement it ?? Who pays for it ?? Social challenges are getting millions thrown at them everyday and each issue is getting expediently worse. To me, humanitarian equality, it’s a magic fantasy, pedalled by state funded actors. People who are not responsible for day - day results. It’s a game for a lot of them, bluff and show but little substance. I’m curious to see will IQ make an appearance before the end ! I suspect not. Surely IQ is a behavioural genetics topic ??

[@dalorasinum386]

Whether someone got their success due to luck or not is kind or irrelevant as being lucky is not a morally bad thing. It just exists. There’s no reason people should be made to feel bad about it.

[@OblateSpheroid]

She’s arguing in favor of equality of outcome by arguing for inequality of genetics? What?

[@squatch545]

Boy did you ever misinterpret this interview. Maybe go back and finish high school.

[@tatianaantoinette9086]

I thought this was going to be a scholarly presentation of theory. "I want people to know luck" is what made them successful. Maybe she should become a pastor instead. Had she discussed genetics more, I would give this more credence.

[@adamdrouin2295]

I just discovered your channel today and am intrigued by the various guests speaking about a broad range of topics. Subscribed

[@michaelrobertson1736]

The poor should largely blame themselves for living unhealthy lives. Drug and alcohol abuse, obesity, violence among their own communities and often within their family unit… these all boil down to daily individual decisions. Unpopular opinion but I’ve lived in poverty my entire life. I know it to be true because I’ve lived it, alongside my own loved ones.

[@DannyMiranda]

I took a psychology class online and she was my professor 😂

[@andreavanda5402]

I feel sorry for you. 😆

[@hexexecutable1143]

You don’t have to do mental gymnastics over this. Yes genetics separates all of us.

[@DaveE99]

Telling conservatives who are on average more concientious that they can’t seperate their hard work from their own genetic luck, oh wow, I don’t expect that to go over well.

[@squatch545]

Yeah, facts don't usually go over well with conservatives.

[@DaveE99]

@@squatch545 As someone who is a combo of more intelligent than average (no genius by any means) and also more open than a lot of people, once I made sense of the big 5 differences it kinda just occured to me even smart educated conservatives would rather just stick their head in the sand on understanding most things. I told one of them once “ all we have to do to dismantle your talking points is get specific and look for nuance.”

[@alfredjohnsson1120]

Social Equality is a conceptual unicorn. Hierarchy is the paramount reality at this moment. Social Stratification is a given. Once again consider the Mathew Principle and the Pareto Distribution.

[@augmenautus]

Redistribution is always a bad idea. The government is so inefficient at redistributing that everyone ends up worse off. It's better to let everyone spend their own money this reduces market distortion and increases money available for private charity.

[@michaelmichael8314]

It's interesting to see how genetics influence our behaviour. I can see traits of my parents and grandparents within myself. My maternal grandfather had a very bad temper, which, unfortunately, I've inherited. As a teenager, and throughout my early 20s, I have displayed aggressive behaviour towards other men if I felt challenged. I read a book about marcus aurelius 6 or 7 years ago. Stoicism is something he practised, which had a huge effect on me. Though I still feel a rush of adrenalin in certain situations. Over the years, I have acquired the ability to avoid reacting. I do possess one variant of a gene called "the warrior gene," which is just a different way of telling you that you're predisposed to reacting violently (they dressed it up in an attempt to portray it as a positive, as opposed to a negative). That being said, I also possess a higher than average IQ, married a wife with an even higher IQ, have 2 degrees in the the field of engineering, and competed competitively at a high level in several different sports. My point being,1) we all likely have genes linked to something negative, but the odds are you also likely possess genes that give you an advantage over others in some field. 2) we should always strive to overcome our imperfections

[@TheNaturalLawInstitute]

It costs $80B to house prisoners, and it would cost about the same to house the mentally ill. That would be about 2% of the annual federal budget. We don't track the cost of migration, real estate, rents, policing, civic wear and tear, caused by the criminal and mentally ill people - and that's before we account for the costs of those with low executive function (impulsive, sensation seeking). So we pay either way. Wishful thinking is just 'hiding' the costs. Conversely, what do we pay for 'housing' the poor and elderly via Medicare-Medicaid, and Social Security? It's more than 1/3 of all taxation.

[@rigaleb]

Please invite Michael Levin to see why we are not ONLY our genes.

[@wendellbabin6457]

Thomas Sowell if his is still kicking it...

[@McInerneyEoin]

We are rewarded based on what we contribute. You contribute more you get more. Your ability has nothing to do with your reward because who you are as a person has nothing to do with it. No one is responsible for carrying the bad luck of anyone else. This is just another attempt at justifying a belief system, which is trying to find a route to consequentlist collectivism. This continued push towards collectivism is becoming demoralising. If these ideas take over there will be no point in working hard. Just enjoy the privilege that you find the work easy and keep it to yourself.

[@cavemanben]

But it’s not a lottery at all. Society in general encourages us to procreate with the best possible so that our future generations are better equipped to do the same. It’s not luck, it’s taken tens of thousands of years of cultural evolution to promote.

[@carolynbrightfield8911]

So I'm curious to know how she would answer the question "Why do you deserve your salary?"

[@SP-mf9sh]

I can't believe this is a professor. Actually I can because I went to a liberal art school where a professor told us to skip class to protest.

[@brindlebriar]

Did she actually dye her hair gray? What an interesting geriatric aesthetic. Woah, they both have the same anomalous lower-right front tooth shape. Woah!! There are 'fill your own dental cavity kits?!' That's might be the second most amazing and progressive thing I've heard in my lifetime. Sounds far more fundamentally good than smartphones, for example.

[@alexngo54]

Really well moderated, I like that you tried to steer the conversation towards the science. Paige thoughts on changing the education system to better serve the genetically disadvantaged rather than the average seems misguided. A lot of it seems impractical and of real questionable benefit.

[@billsimms2511]

Agree, we’d be better off steering the “genetically disadvantaged” people towards trades or other skills that they are stronger at. It’s a mistake to try and force some people into College when they don’t have the right brain power to make it all work

[@normaaliihminen722]

@@billsimms2511 Here in Finland People who doenst do academically well in Primary school usually go to Vocational schools where they learn trade that they found interested in Primary school. Of course this is not set in stone In my vocational school days I have seen quite bright minded people who would manage High school and matriculations exams easily but they aren't that interested in high school so they didn't apply to High School. Of course if you already know what job you want to do then shortest route to that is vocational school.

[@dysvanlist]

I was homeless, only by sheer good luck did i find a place

[@Luixxxd1]

You found a place because you looked for one, and when found you took the opportunity. Don't let these "luck" talk distract you from your own achievements. Remember, in order for you to say "im lucky to find a place" you were "unlucky" to have lost it in the first place

[@ndndndnnduwjqams]

@@Luixxxd1 that why, it's all luck

[@joan3891]

Everyone comes into the world with a certain hand and it’s how each individual plays that hand that matters.

[@torrentthom4734]

Very ambiguous. Circumstance can top genetics. There's an old saying my aunt is fond of: "The rich can afford to be sick." I personally like this: "You play with the cards you've been dealt." You can talk about being generous to the "disadvantaged" but you can only rly do this if society/culture is not belly up. smh :/

[@janieromer2907]

Presumably psychopathy has genetic roots and that seems to have a bearing on much 'success' in outcome. Weirdly I think I might prefer to hang out with a creatively minded stoner than the affor mentioned 'contributing winner'

[@robertmacdonaldch5105]

I don't like some of wording, it's very problematic. Such as "what's true for me" that statement is wholly contrary to the scientific method as is "what I think is true". No you are supposed to be pursuing what is true.

[@markreale5218]

Although I find this all fascinating, the croaky/raspy voice thing annoys me. According to a professor of hearing and speech sciences at Vanderbilt University it's because women want to sound like men. A way to strengthen their image. Maybe it's something genetic but than again what do I know ...

[@hawk8403]

Pretty girls are living on a completely different planet than any other demographic. This is why politically active unmarried women over 23, whether a 3 or a 10, lean way way left.

[@funwithmadness]

My BS detector was going off pretty loudly on the last point... Her comparison between sports based genetics and education base genetics contradicted what I believe is her message. To me, it sounded like she was saying that, at least in sports, when you take a look at the bigger picture (meaning including more variables) the genetics becomes less and less significant. Wouldn't the same hold true for the education based genetics? Also, I think you might have been too pretty for her, Chris. At the very least she was uncomfortable... Constantly playing with her necklace, "guarding her throat", looking at the floor and not at you directly in the monitor... Yeah, I think you put the whammy on her. :)

[@jmac3327]

Nor does Mr. Williams ever approach the issue of culture.

[@sw.7519]

Though Neo Marxist nowadays believe in the human formed by society.

[@WhatisReal11]

"fairness"

[@morriganmhor5078]

Doing side by side genetics (science) and psychology (thinking about feelings) seems to denote split personality in that lady.

[@ChrisVanSlykeCVS]

Funny how she thinks that the value of jobs is set by the "system" and proposes that the system has misallocated resources. That may be the case depending on what system does the resource allocation for example central planners versus free market allocation of resources. Her university posh job likely is propped or distorted up by central planners versus a free market based job like mechanic.

[@MandoMTL]

This woman speaks of mingling science with her "convictions", and she's a professor? Wow.