Are Knock and Talks Legal? Florida v. Jardines

Can police enter the curtilage to conduct a knock and talk? Can police bring a drug sniffing dog on the curtilage? Florida v. Jardines case law analysis.
The Tactical In-Service is a podcast for law enforcement. As a former prosecutor, I break down training topics and case law to educate the law enforcement community.
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Case Law Discussed in This Episode:
➡️ Florida v. Jardines, 569 U.S. 1 (2013) - supreme.justia.com/cases/fede...
➡️ See also Collins v. Virginia, 584 U.S. ____ (2018) - supreme.justia.com/cases/fede...
⚡️ Upcoming Advanced Search and Seizure Training: tacticalattorney.com/upcoming/
Podcast available where you listen to podcasts or listen now here: www.spreaker.com/show/tactica...
Erik Scramlin is a former Chief Deputy District Attorney and current owner of Tactical Legal Solutions, LLC. Erik Scramlin provides in-depth legal training for New Mexico police officers. Courses and contact information available at policelegaltraining.com
DISCLAIMER: This is not legal advice. This content and all of Tactical Attorney's content is for informational purposes only. You should contact your attorney to obtain legal advice with respect to any particular issue. Nothing here should be construed to form an attorney client relationship of any kind.

[@leftovertech]

I am always appreciative of hearing someone remind law enforcement officers and others about what I call "Girl Scout rights". The first Brownie who comes to my door with a drug sniffing dog is gonna be in big trouble! LOL

[@siliconvalleyengineer5875]

Excellent advice ! If the police knock on your door never open the door, or talk to them from behind your door. If the police call your house using their 911 dispatcher, do not answer the phone. Never trust the police or believe what they tell you is the truth. .

[@williamzander4732]

100%correct there fishing for evidence. And have cameras and recorders

[@guybrock837]

No question,...but a story. I had a cop come to my home doing a well fair check on a young boy,.. that was asked for but his father who was getting divorced from the boys father. The cop knew my wife and I ( we live in a small town),...and we did not have any kids at home anymore. I told the cop Just that,...we have no kids at home, they have all grown up and mover out. He said the address for the well fair check was given as my address. I repeated what I said previously. He said he would like to go into the house and check. I said NO,your business is done here, you can leave now. He began to tell me he's investigating the well fair of a child and I must let him in the house, and he would allow me to walk through the house with him. I told him once again NO, LEAVE. He started to get more aggressive in his demands. This all occurred while I was standing in my garage, washing the floor down with the garden hose. YES I DID,...I TURNED THE HOSE ON HIM,..he left as I hosed him down running 🏃‍♀️ down the driveway. He went to the county attorney and wanted to get an arrest warrant for assaulting a police officer. The county attorney wasn't having any. Folks in town still give that cop grief over this one.

[@brettblack7049]

The irony, a pissed cop, got pissed on 😂

[@francesthieme3943]

Also you need to remind these officers that when the occupant states that they do not want to talk that the officer must leave the curtilage. When an occupant indicates that they do not want to talk they are stating go get a warrant and come back. Occupants do not have to talk even if the cop believes that they have probable cause. No means no - go get a warrant and come back. Also people foot in door is considered an unlawful seizure of the occupant. SCOTUS has ruled that the threshold requires a warrant. The courts are sort of divided as to cops doing this, but if they do grab a chair and let the clock run out without saying a word. Use it against the warrant if they obtain one later... This tactic is called FREEZING THE HOME. Basically cops are trying to impound your home prior to having a warrant or even knowing if the judge will grant one..

[@ryanthon10]

Officers don't get it, because they're not held accountable,

[@zodyou1]

He was my professor when I attended the police academy. Solid guy when it comes to law.

[@tacticalattorney]

Thanks! I appreciate it. Did I have you at the NM Academy or FLETC?

[@zodyou1]

@@tacticalattorney FLETC.

[@tacticalattorney]

@Yusiv Awesome! Keep on fighting the good fight. I hope your doing well!

[@louisteal598]

First of all this isn't a license for police officer; what it is a acceptance that anyone can walk up to someone's home and knock on the door.

[@eljefeog]

I mean, getting a dog to signal isn’t an exact science. They are oftentimes wrong when they signal. E.g. I heard one study that when dogs signal on Latino suspects they were only right 30% of the time.

[@speedwakemobile]

good stuff. it's very interesting having done battle with a few cops who have overstepped their authority.

[@crawfordclark1096]

Excellent information !!!

[@tacticalattorney]

Thank you sir!

[@UnitedArmsOrganization]

Imagine going to your boss's office, throwing him up against the wall a couple times a week, patting him down, searching his pockets, rifling through his desk and still expecting a paycheck at the end of the week. That's what cops do to us! We put food on their table, they abuse us, treat us like criminals and still expect to get paid. This tops the list of insane things we, as humans, keep allowing.

[@writingonthewalls9052]

Bro, nobody cares about your nonsensical and mentally detached analogies. You have to follow the rules just like everyone else, stop crying.

[@user-ib1ow3rp7j]

What about properties with No Trespassing signage. No Soliciting, mail/package carriers call this number for delivery.

[@tacticalattorney]

Great question. This would signal that the home owner has revoked implied consent.

[@15dugogo]

Very, very, very good and easy to understand explanations for sometimes difficult case law. You should expand your channel to do other states' supreme court case law affecting the subjects you present as you do for New Mexico. That would be extremely helpful. I can't find a person on youtube for California who does what you do for New Mexico. Besides, there are few attorneys or former prosecutors who can succinctly and thoroughly break down and analyze these cases to get at what is most important-"the key take-aways," and what is not as important. These videos are good for the average citizen as well who wants to know their legal rights when dealing with law enforcement.

[@hafsalinda]

A fence and gate erases the license.

[@hafsalinda]

You can knock but you cant require talk.

[@ronspeth7095]

You don't have to answer their questions without an attorney present.

[@jamminport]

If a property has a backyard with a chain link fence, can police ask the neighbor for permission to access their backyard? After entering the neighbors backyard, with permission, cops now obtain plain view into the property in question. Thoughts?

[@tacticalattorney]

The answer would depend upon your State's specific law and how they interpret Katz but under a federal analysis, applying Katz it would be hard to argue that the owner had a subjective expectation of privacy if they took no steps to block their neighbors view.

[@jamminport]

@@tacticalattorney thank you

[@michaelandreas2177]

Were there any repercussions to the judge who granted a warrant on the basis of the dog's search?

[@writingonthewalls9052]

No, because the rule was not previously established that they were ‘not’ allowed to do that. Police and other government officials generally don’t receive repercussions for actions that create case laws because nobody knows what the “right” answer is since this is the first time they’re encountering this specific situation at the time before the rule is created. So they have what is essentially a long meeting (court, trial, appellate court, reversals etc) to decide what the rule is and how we approach it in the future. So the judge did not, and should not, receive any punishment because the rule that you are not allowed to bring a dog to the front porch under Florida v. Jardine, technically did not exist at the time the warrant was issued.

[@michaelj3971]

I just found your channel and to me it is fascinating. I am not in law enforcement, and actually I am retired, but I have a overall interest in how case law works from an applicability stand point. For instance, there is case law from individual states, courts of appeal, SCOTUS, etc. Back in the day, I used to teach a course to new engineers on the US Nuclear Regulatory Structure. Some documents are law, some documents are not law except under certain circumstances, another set of documents are never law, but it is extremely important to either abide by them or have unimpeachable reasoning behind your alternate course of action, etc. etc. So I have to believe this (at least to some extent) applies to case law also. For instance, I live in Florida, so I think 11th Circuit opinions probably are more applicable to me than case law from where you are in the 10th Circuit. But, I really don't know. I am not sure this would be a reasonable topic for your channel where you focus specifically on law enforcement, but if there is some applicability, I would dearly love to hear how case law all fits together. Edit to add: I heard you talk about how state law can override a SCOTUS ruling under certain circumstances, I think to provide additional rights. So that is another interesting point that you made.

[@tacticalattorney]

Thanks for the comment. Although I focus on educating law enforcement, I am very appreciative that this information is helpful for the general public as well. Thanks for watching and I definitely think you bring up good questions for a future episode.

[@fishermanfinder7198]

There still a fact that the use of military policy Courts 5uscodes can't be abridgements of constitution rights under 22usc meaning violated by the courts

[@JohnKnowsGremlins]

Do police in the State of Florida have the power to run tags on vehicles parked on private property without any RAS of any crime? Thank you for your great informative videos ✅✅✅

[@tacticalattorney]

I'm not familiar enough with Florida law to tell you whether or not there is anything that would apply under state law, however under the 4th Amendment, as long as officers were located in a public place and the tags were viewable to the public from that lawful vantage point, this would not be considered a search, i.e. lawful.

[@hafsalinda]

Plain view doctrine works for everyone in florida too. Looking into cars at night? Plain view doctrine. Looking into police vehicles? Plain view doctrine The eyes can not be trespassed.

[@kelvinharris4921]

I know police officers don't have to abide by no trespassing signs since they are the ones who enforce them. But if a sign was posted that was specifically created and placed there for law enforcement itself would it be valid? Let's say if it was a sign that stated " All law enforcement and government officials must have in possession a sign and dated warrant to proceed further. And that all rights it can be applied are officially being invoked the moment you come on to this property." Wood and could something like that have legal standing in a court of law? If it was properly stated in a legal format And placed at the border of the cartilage and the location that makes it difficult not to notice if not impossible. Would it have standing and give the owners a legal argument in court?

[@5050johnsmith]

Look at birchfield v north dakota

[@ronspeth7095]

But should leave when told to

[@jacksonworkshop]

Can you maybe give me some insight on a welfare concern? For example a friend is concerned they haven’t heard from their friend in a few days, has medical issues, very not normal for this individual. Can you go outside the “invitation” and walk around the house for this?

[@user-pb7cs6zh2n]

Awesome video! What about if the motorcycle is parked on a public street with a cover over it and you are called there because the complainant believes it to be abandoned. Can you now lift the motorcycle cover to see the vin or plate?

[@williamzander4732]

Yes it's on the street you can run a tag for suspicious.

[@kenjohnson4461]

so if I have a gate before a officer can get to my door do they have " license" to be at my door ?

[@williamzander4732]

No trespassing and a lock on gate stops them .They try to get warrant by plainview doctrine you can sue .

[@wdtaut5650]

6:19 "We all, most normal people if you're, unless you got a gate blocking your driveway that says "No Trespassing"..." Does this mean that rich people get more protection from police actions than "normal" people? Didn't you say, in another video, that police can ignore "No Trespassing" signs?

[@williamzander4732]

State of Kansas vs Fisher your trash is protected .

[@melissajones-zv8cd]

A big difference between a ups delivery and and official police inquiries. Sounds like a beat down of the 4th

[@appamaddox8190]

Huh.

[@violet_broregarde]

I'm yet another non-cop who's been binge-watching your channel. The KZbin recommendation system doesn't take our jobs into account when recommending us videos. If you want to get your videos in front of cops, ask your audience to recommend you to their local PD. The people who watch you are casual law nerds and fans of police interaction content. We like learning about the law and our rights, especially the edge cases. And we agree that most rights violations could be solved by training. "Hi y'all I'm a former prosecutor turned police trainer and when I saw this interaction I knew I had to put together a class on how to avoid this situation. It was caused by common misconceptions about the particulars of this complex legal issue. If you are or know a member of a police department who would benefit from more training here, please recommend me to the appropriate parties. Now let's jump right into it." Your videos would be popular with fans of lawtube (Potentially Criminal, Rekieta Law, Leejah Miller, Attorney Tom, Legal Eagle, Moon Channel...) and police audit content (Audit the Audit, LackLuster, etc). That said, I was disappointed when I watched your video on qualified immunity. Your take reveals a prosecutorial bias that is clouding your judgment. I urge you to reconsider your framing of the events. The cops found a man acting erratically in his ex's shed. They escalated the situation when they blocked the door. They escalated again when they lied to his face and offered to take him "home." Then they escalated AGAIN when they accused the victim of not listening because he said he didn't want to go to jail. No thank you, officers, I'll walk. Since you've determined that I'm not a danger to myself or others, please give me a wide enough berth that I can leave with confidence that you won't chase me down and arresting me. Oh you won't do that? HMMMMMMMMMMMM You watched the video. You knew that man couldn't be left at home unsupervised. You knew the cops were lying when they said he'd go home if he got in the back of the car. He knew it too. He knew what words they were saying, and he knew what they meant. He was listening. He had determined that the goal of the conversation was to get him to jail. So "I'm not going to jail" is a perfectly coherent response until the cops make it clear that they'll let him leave. And the police left a tiny little smidgen of ambiguity by absolutely refusing to get out of the fucking way so he could just go back to his goddamn house please. That's why people don't trust the police. Lying is a form of psychological force used to overcome the victim's willpower in protecting themselves from self-incrimination. But unlike other uses of force, lies aren't documented as a matter of course.

[@andypolanski7913]

"KNOCK...NOT ARAMED"???

[@imbalancedstatus8824]

Another way around your 4th amendment

[@user-fi8we7rz8i]

This is very case specific......utilizing a K-9. Does not apply to most knock and talk incidents.

[@joeryanstrialbook2005]

Ridiculous. First, you claim you have an "informer" who tells you I am doing drugs inside my home. Second, you being the bright guy that you are, think it a good idea to walk onto my property with a "drug sniffing" dog in hand, and knock on my door, like you are the postman, the UPS driver, the religious nut with a bible in your hand, a neighbor, all of whom have the "implied" license to knock, the implication being that I "invite" the knock. Third, you claim that the drug "alerted" to drugs and now, when I open my door, you arrest me. Really smart clever police work.