Are more people QUITTING the game? | Warhammer 40,000

[@MordianGlory]

So this video was recorded before the latest balance dataslate. I am just curious, has the recent update to the game encouraged or put you off playing 40k? Also are you more likely to start attending events now?

[@tasteofwang81]

I wanted to go to the Tampa event but they charge so much to play. I guess I’ll stick to smaller local tourneys with cheap entry fees. Still trying to get my first 2,000 point game.

[@Gerod253]

It hasn’t really change my perspective yet. It really depends on how much time passes between now and the next adjustment. I’ve also heard that there were errors, or balance corrections, to the tyranids’ codex on the day of launch. That doesn’t bode well.

[@ericmiller1188]

More likely

[@keyanklupacs6333]

This is the edition I'm attempting to get back into the hobby and I see a lot of these changes of removing options and dumbing down the game as wholey negative. The one singular exception is removal of spending cp pregame to buy your detachment etc. But in general I was a much bigger fan of the force org chart in one form or another instead of picking an army construction template. Shit like the removal of psychic and paying for wargear and each model is a squad is too simple. I like going to work and thinking about how Im going to tweak my list. I do NOT get that when every unit can only be taken like 2 ways and has like a single digit number of options. GW pretends like basic math was the thing scaring people off while producing 70 dollar 10 man squads. Calculators exist magic money printers fucking don't. Stop trying to be fucking one page rules and be Warhammer 40000. Fucking own it.

[@ZenofPainting]

I'm a casual player and probably will never enter a tournament in my life. I'm having a blast now especially with the Newest Balance dataslate. This hobby is a lifesaver for my mental health.

[@spacecanuk8316]

The three year edition cycle is what’s wearing me. Not enough time to get used to anything when I have a job. That said, I will never sell my armies, just maybe focus on Kill Team or another skirmish game.

[@matiasyannuzzi9655]

Same. 10th Edition should have released in 2025, or at least 2024. It's pretty disrespectful to the customers to leave them waiting for an updated codex for years and letting them use it with full support for less than 6 months.

[@adrumm03able]

Yep. Three years is way too short

[@Khorzho]

Go to a non-GW store and ask around to see if anyone is up for 9th. You might be surprised.

[@spacecanuk8316]

@@matiasyannuzzi9655 To be fair I think the pandemic messed up the supply chain for their printers, so I'm sure that was never their plan. That said, even if things went smoothly 3 years would still not be enough. 5 minimum.

[@matiasyannuzzi9655]

@@spacecanuk8316 Yeah but now we see them pull the same shit with the 10th Ed codices. They've released only the Nid codex, when they could have released a whole bunch digitally.

[@tent3221]

I wish this community wasn't allergic to just playing a previous edition, or even community created rules. If the community wants GW to write better rules they need to stop using literally anything they release no matter how bad everyone agrees it is.

[@keyanklupacs6333]

Big agree. If ultimate marvel vs capcom 3 can be at evo we should be capable of playing with older rules. The problem is the 40k community is so full of brainless whales that its difficult to start a shift that large.

[@internetuser320]

Nice idea!

[@McBurnside6380]

Truth. We play 2nd edition. There is a huge international group that still plays that edition. We have a large facebook presence and there are even tournaments hosted in multiple countries. 4th edition has also gained a lot of traction lately. 8th edition was so bad it caused a massive resurgence in those two older editions.

[@tent3221]

​@@McBurnside6380I had no idea. I'll have to check that out, thanks for the heads up!

[@blecao]

I honestly think that the problem is that competitive play has been engrave into the mind of people. At least in my zone is the same to go to our small monthly tournament wich are done for people to prepare theyr lists for a GT than asking for a casual game

[@ReaperGrimm2009]

Yeah after the latest Nid codex drop, my buddy quit the game and just gave away his nid army. He was upset that the unit cards are now locked behind warhammer+ which he doesn't want to subscribe to. He was convinced the codex books would only be needed for the new detachments and the constant tracking of faq's was a bit much for him. Sad day that I lost my rival/friend for my catachan jungle fighters

[@TheWarpForge]

Even then you need the codex to get the code to "unlock" the rules. yes, even as a WH+ Subscriber. That is fuistrating for me.

[@willgoss9756]

Your friend is an overreacting moron. Why would you just give away an army that you spent time and money on because of something so trivial? Warhammer+ is $6 a month and if you don't want to use that battlescribe is free. You can find all of the indexes and codexes free online too

[@adamduffield7782]

Dude that sucks! Tell your mate to get his nid army back and you both can play one page rules grim dark future instead. Rules are free!

[@BrotherBarakiel996]

@@adamduffield7782 I mean he really can't if he gave it away to someone.

[@JB-yr6qt]

Thing I've noticed over time is that nearly everyone who quits 40k doesn't do it because of the game itself. They quit because of GW's business practices. Because of the way GW takes away their stuff, or overcharges for everything, or stomps on fan creators, or meddles with retailers, etc etc. GW make a LOT of anti-customer decisions in the name of short term profit. Personally, I just dipped back in for 9th/10th to do a modelling project figuring I'd end up using them to try out Grimdark Future instead as I wagered GW would bork the new edition somehow (they always do after all, just a question of 'how').

[@AFnord]

While the treadmill has always been there, it was never at such a high speed setting as it's been in more recent times. And that was what made me bounce out of 9th edition, it became too exhausting to keep up with all the changes. I've been in the hobby for a long time, since 3rd edition, and while I've had periods where I did not play (like all of 7th edition, because well, don't like 7th edition...) I never felt like it was this much work to keep up with the game as it was in 9th. And it really did start to feel like work, and I stopped enjoying the hobby, so I finally left. 10th got me to look into 40k again, but honestly, it feels like what made me nope out of 9th is still an issue.

[@pabloalonsolasagabaster658]

im not leaving 40k, i love playing casual games, but I have to admit that i havent learned 10th edition secondaries yet, playing mostly Only war in a very chill way. I am becoming more and more casual

[@nathanmcgowan5198]

Agreed, I think the tournament crowd are the minority not the majority. Like you I enjoy friendly bouts with my mates and we get round most of the things like balance ourselves. We have moved to playing other games too (mostly historical games of various flavours, however that might just be an indicator that we're all getting old) but these are adding to our hobby and we're not abandoning GW.

[@chrisgoodier6825]

What would be cool to see is you doing a 40k bat rep and do a OPR Grimdark Future bat rep with the same armies to compare the game systems.

[@SlocumJoe7740]

OPR is great

[@McClane4Ever.]

That would be super interesting.

[@ozymandrokles8171]

I'd watch that 👌 😎

[@jamesk7075]

I don't play 40k, and stuff like this is exactly why. Whenever I'm tempted to buy some product, GW comes sets it all on fire. It's exasperating to watch, I can't imagine playing it.

[@samurguy9906]

Check out one page rules. Very good system, any and all models welcome.

[@c.g.262]

Agreed, been playing one page rules with my some now for about 8 months, and it’s loads of fun.

[@Mr.Mosquito89]

Ever tried SW Legions? That's pretty consistent and doesn't have a braindead company exec pissing in your mouth every few months.

[@c.g.262]

@@Mr.Mosquito89 LOL! Great analogy! I haven't. I want to, but that would mean investing in yet another table top game. Someday my son and I will get a starter set.

[@c.g.262]

My son and I moved to one page rules early this year, and love every minute of our games. He even says it feels like we when we started collecting again. The games are fun instead of a 4 hour snooze fests looking through three different rules books.

[@Gerod253]

In my local area we had a few of us who went with Grimdark Future. A larger chunk of people decided to go with Horus Heresy. The 40K community is still alive and well, but I’m enjoying the slight variety. I just wish I’d see more Bolt Action and/or Konflict 47.

[@nightsyrup1752]

I've been playing since 4th edition. I am probably going to step away from this edition myself, I haven't really been enjoying it even though I do think that it has some good ideas. I'm disappointed with how sloppy the edition has been and my army was shafted which doesn't feel good. Worse yet is that it makes me feel silly that I've been pouring a lot of effort into building & painting them. That being said, it's still fun to play with my friends and I love building, collecting, and painting the models. It is also getting very pricy: the new Abaddon alone went through three price increases already (If memory serves) and that worries me. I do enjoy playing other wargaming games like Bolt Action and Spectre Operations so I might focus on those for the next little while. Kill Teams also looks fun.

[@jjkingish]

Yeah. I’m going to be doing the same

[@AndrewNarog]

Probably not quitting 40k, but the combination of a busy life plus disappointment with how sloppy 10th has been certainly has seen me draw back from really wanting to play the game.

[@iiiiiii5]

My local community was non existent this time last year. But a new LGS opened and people started getting into the hobby at the end of 9th. They’ve gone pretty hard on expending their armies and still have that GW glow. We’ll see what happens.

[@Andonios88]

I got into 40K a year ago, started playing in tournaments early in 2023 and I’m not feeling the itch to ply 10th. I’ve played 3 games so far.

[@Charlie-qn4dp]

I’ve stopped trying to keep up with 40k but I’m loving Horus Heresy and have started playing 2nd edition again after 24 years.

[@francoismarion-eu3jq]

2e and 7e are the best, and hh is basically 7e

[@kgp277]

Dudee, I’m thinking about Horus Heresy.

[@Recursion_TwistingNether]

I used to help run a local gaming club in Luton. Our entire player base we’re all avid 40K players. On a weekly basis we would have anywhere between 8-12 games going on a Thursday evening. All our 40K players converted to playing AoS gradually throughout 9th and 10th was the last nail in the coffin. Now we’re lucky if we have 1 40K game on a club night, everyone is playing AoS instead.

[@nian89]

9th started so good but just crashes completely for me after they dropped the massive errata just taking away my armies I was running at that time. I've still to come back and Guards are look really fun to play

[@matiasyannuzzi9655]

All those Marine players who already had huge collections since 7th Edition, 6th Edition or beyond, who for that reason bought very few Primaris units (if any) and were told "so, you'll only retain tanks, a few characters, Devastator squads and Tactical squads" will surely love to keep playing the game (?

[@Bluecho4]

Imagine the lead-up to 10th, where a Firstborn player felt mounting dread. Thinking "is this the edition where they kill off Firstborn marines?". Then 10th happens, and a sigh of relief where most of the old staples are there in the Index. "Thank the Emperor, safe for another edition at least". GW even releases word, reassuring players that they won't discontinue kits so long as they make money. Everything seems fine for the moment. Then BAM! A bunch of Firstborn kits get removed with little warning, with no sigh of replacement. Sure, the Assault Squads return...as Jump Pack Primaris. And the Scouts soon enough got a new kit. But now we're seeing previews of the SM Codex, and we know there's going to be a big cull of units. You don't just feel trepidation in that moment. Don't just feel sorry for the loss of Firstborn kits. You feel _betrayed._ GW _lied_ to you, the longtime Space Marines fan. Lied long enough to get everyone emotionally invested in 10th edition, before pulling the rug out from under you, when no one is paying attention. After a bunch of folks bought the Leviathan box, and even some older kits, thinking they would continue to be supported. Or how about when people bought a bunch of new plastic kits for Horus Heresy, under the belief they'd continue to work for 40K? Only to see those removed from 40K after only a few months? How does THAT make a SM player feel?

[@DarkKnightCuron]

I have a full firstborn battle company. The fact that I'm losing whole squads and characters in the game is right proper insulting, personally. Like a kick in the nuts. This has been my primary criticism.

[@Localfriendlyanarchist]

I don't even know why primaris are even a thing. Why didn't GW just upscale old marines and stop producing the older models without changing rules or names or whatever. The did that when they changed from RT to 2nd ed. Why not again? Profiteering is the only reason I can see

[@Bluecho4]

@@Localfriendlyanarchist Yep. If they just did a range refresh, there's no guarantee existing Space Marines players would make the jump. What with the market being flush with them from decades of flooding the market with starter sets. _Obviously_ the best course of action is to introduce a plotline specifically to justify a massive expansion of the range, AND engineering the rules so all the old marines were objectively inferior on the tabletop. It's extremely cynical and scummy.

[@Localfriendlyanarchist]

@@Bluecho4 personally it doesn't bother me too much. I only pay passing attention to whatever nonsense GW is up to at any one time. I'll occasionally join in a game at the flgs but games at home are more homebrew than GW at this stage. I started back in the RT/2nd era so homebrew is baked in. I see why GW don't promote that kind of thinking anymore but it's a shame we players go along with the corporate mindset. Quiting and going to other systems like OPR or warzone is fine. So what. But doing so without even bothering to start messing with rules ourselves seems unnecessary. By taking what GW put out and messing with it us players make 40k ours again, not theirs. A community, not a group of corporate junkies

[@TikitheHutt]

I noticed when I left WH40K in 8th both my time and hobby fund freed up enough that I could play both DnD 5e weekly and start and try a few new tabletop games like Bolt Action/K47, Carnevale, Gaslands and a few others. It seems like no other tabletop game takes up so much time/money as WH40K, it's like if you play WH40K, that's ALL you play. Not always true, but many people I meet feel the same once they walk away from WH40K.

[@paulhumphreys919]

I left around the start of 8th edition. I was always a lore fluff gamer. I could see what 40k was becoming. It's not the same story that it once was. It's not grimdark anymore, it's a much lighter universe that's completely lost its edge. And don't even get me started on the turn to tacticool that was the primaris marines.

[@McBurnside6380]

I struggled into 8th, quit after six months. Picked it up again after taking a year off and quit again for good when 9th was announced. 8th was an awful mess and I made the decision that bad games are just not worth playing despite my investment in time and money. You made the right choice.

[@TheMostSlyFox]

Very much this.

[@Storehouse-805]

Not me! I'm new to 40k in 10th edition and never plan on going to tournaments. To me it's almost more fun to keep making new armies based on the live updates. This is only because my army is fully 3d printed and the costs to quickly adjust a list and find a fun file to print is low. I enjoy gluing together all their bits and seeing the army rise from parts into a cohesive force! o7 my friend!

[@mpbros207]

I’m trying to get in. I love the painting I love the factions but it’s unfortunate that everyone seems to have swallowed the black pill. It seems so hard to get in with so many people leaving. The local games store used to have so many people playing (according to the old guard) but now it’s 8 people.

[@MordianGlory]

Thats really sad to hear :( But dont worry mate, I think the recent update has done quite a lot of good for the game :)

[@Andonios88]

Sit back, enjoy the hobby aspect if you can. I just got into 40K a year ago and I’m not motivated to play 10th at the moment. What I am motivated to do is get my army in decent hobby shape, I’ll get back into the scene at some point.

[@johnjeneki3758]

Having walked away from 40k during the 3rd edition, it's interesting to hear the reasons people leave now are exactly the same as 20 years earlier. Back then there were plenty of alternative games, stuff like Warzone, Vor, and Void, which made it easy to just use our existing figures there. I feel like this is the best way to go, keep your figures and use them to play better rule sets.

[@MatthewCharmanadventures]

See now this could be an issue. the use of the word 'treadmill' was quite astute. I would never quit over rules being good or bad. Whatever, I'll play anyway. But especially as a fluffy gamer, it is getting exhausting. A Codex will last three years at the outside, and what every faction does seems to change with the week. My favourite universe and game in the world is Warhammer Fantasy, and I am *so* glad that they discontinued it: I have all the army books from editions 4-8, so I and my friends can always play games. And is a rugged enough game system that it doesn't get old or stale. I also love 40k, but this ever-accelerating cycle of planned obsolescence is getting difficult to deal with. The Tyranid codex being out of date before it was released was sobering. At least with Votann in 9th, it did have some circulation and an issue was identified. But that nid thing showed that they can invalidate a book at any moment. If I had my way, I'd want a series of rules that lasts at the very least five years. Eleven years after my last ever Empire army book was published and I still like planning armies. WFB still has new things to learn because it's a good game. I want the same for 40k. I want things to have their own relative strengths and weaknesses, not have their qualities modified every five minutes. I only ever buy models because I like them - but I'd still like to not have to relearn how to use things constantly!

[@UnkleKlumsy1353]

A friend of mine, whom i did guide into trying the hobby mid 8th edition, got really into space marines. Firstborn. I think you know by context where this is going... Also, i will say i have been playing more OnePage in the past years, more an more since 8th. With late 9th and 10th, i moved hard to playing more killteam, necromunda and warcry, as well as AoS. I can say ive been having way more fun with all those games than 40k and i havent gone to a tourney in many years now

[@c.g.262]

GW missed such a great opportunity with to add new models and still keep the new ones. They easily could have added to the range without completely replacing it.

[@andreasringqvist1731]

Being a Guard lover the Guard codex fiasco hurt me a bit. But what made me give up on playing 10th ed is a lot of people being glad that gw have simplified the game, making it more accessible and such. And we know, in 3 years everyone will be happy that gw releases 11th ed so we can get away from the disaster that is 10th ed...

[@wakeley4984]

I think the transition to 10th is very different than earlier editions. When you went from 8th edition to 9th edition, you could still use your own Codex, a book specifically made for your faction with unique unit stats. Now you toss the books you had out the window and you are left with "index factions" or single detachment factions. This is similar to how Kill team 2 started. Some are just more equal than others, Krieg and Orks had real factions, while the rest didn't, until more got released. To put it simply, it will feel like an early access game, until more codexes are released.

[@terrysaunders7107]

My last purchase was a land speeder storm and a box of scout sniper squad. It went to Legends three weeks later. Since then, it's all been put in storage bins.

[@aheroforfun6401]

I play Blood Angels and I had just finished a beautifully painted 10-man Assault Squad with Jump Packs. Not Golden Daemon-level by any means, but they really looked great on the tabletop. Two weeks later I saw the announcement that they were going to Legends/getting discontinued. 😑

[@xariallev.9568]

I have gone through several phases in and out of playing the game - I always follow the latest 40K news and paint occasionally - but at the moment the price hikes, and consant changes, are just killing any enthusiasm I have for the game.

[@hammer1349]

The treadmill i believe is most effective when people arent generally aware of it. Kinda like the boiling frog thing. I think its an interesting phenomenon that the 40k community and those of GWs other game systems have essentially galvanised into 'game' group and 'hobby' group with some people walking in both worlds

[@40kfancom]

Myself, and a dozen or so local friends all started tabletop after 10th edition due to accessibility. Most of us were lore/pc/animation fans for many years but found 10th opened the door to the tabletop. Talking to experienced local players, they are seeing 3 or 4 new players for every old player they lose. Obviously this could be a local phenomena and some those won’t make it long-term. My point is, it seems it is safe to say that every “generation” of the game has a balance of those leaving and those beginning. On top of all this, all the growing media presence will have an impact as well. Again, myself and the group I’m playing with all came in not because of tabletop exposure, but because the other media drew us in and we simply wanted to experience the whole of 40k. That all being said, most of these same guys are too busy to go to tournaments but play each other when we can or at the local game shops. In addition, given GW recently expanded to an additional warehouse and production facility, it seems apparent that miniature sales aren’t suffering. I would suggest that maybe tournaments are not the current way forward and not truly reflective of the hobby itself. Just my speculation based on my own experiences and not intended to be inflammatory.

[@BloodBuffalo]

10th is a better game for the average person that hasn't accrued a massive army over decades or is wealthy. People crying are the ones who meta chase. Everyone I know personally has loved 10th. I love tenth. And have two friends that began playing and got hooked because of tenth. Your experience is the norm.

[@McBurnside6380]

@@BloodBuffalo just give it time. Eventually you will be embittered or at least weary of the three year cycle, incredibly short life span of codex's and constant price rises. Also, the core rules are just bad compared to games from other companies or the established historical games like Bolt action, chain of command or Battlegroup. The thing you need to try to avoid is getting too invested financially and with your time. Otherwise you may cross the psychological boundary into Stockholm syndrome. GW is counting on you to do just that. Take care man, play more games.

[@BloodBuffalo]

@@McBurnside6380 I've been in this since 2009

[@BloodBuffalo]

@@McBurnside6380 I like the lore. I don't chase the meta. I have fun. If you go into it not like a weirdo you have fun. It's not Stockholm syndrome. It's I buy things I think are cool. I play with my friends and I have fun. That simple.

[@McBurnside6380]

@@BloodBuffalo whatever floats your boat. I play 2nd edition once a month with friends just so I can use parts of the vast armies I painted over the years. But I don't love the lore. And the lousy 8th edition rules made me quit the game for good. I find the lore of this world far more interesting and the rules of historical games are just so much more fun to play.

[@DeckDivMiniatures]

It seems my local scene is pretty strong. I'm confident about it and we have a great group of players here in the southern part of the US. Most of the people in our group are happy or at least satisfied with the balance and, as a new player as of a year ago, I'm thrilled for what the future brings. Thanks for your content man. For the Guard!

[@geoffgrigg381]

My local area has seen a massive dip in the old guard playing 40k and in general a huge dip. Our last tournament got canceled. Usually we have 7 tables going but this time they couldn’t get enough for 2 tables. Battle tech has taken a huge tick up in response to it in the local area.

[@AzkuulaKtaktu]

Im not leaving the hobby, im just taking care not to spend any money that might end up in the hands of GW

[@ghr501able]

Proxy models the way to go

[@AzkuulaKtaktu]

@@ghr501able print, proxy, and pirate

[@Asmogan]

I'll never quit 40k myself, never wholesale anyway... But I know over a dozen people who've quit since the beginning of 10th edition to now. Even in my local tournament scene an event planned for this coming weekend got canceled because too few people signed up which is a first since the pandemic for my area. Now TBF, the school year just started and some of our players are teens and teachers so that might have more to do with it than distaste or burnout... but the majority of Tourney players are adults, so we still should have had more than enough to run a 3-round swiss. Yet, too few signups... Interesting times. Rough times. Bleak times.

[@oceanpete36]

I'm on the verge of tbh, fixed unit sizes and no points per model plus Ballistic skill drops (and shit rules) for Admech are the camel that is bouncing on the back. I'd play a previous edition but my mates that play would probably refuse, apparently 1PR "has too many rules" (truth be told i want to play something a bit less arcadey)...so I think I'm going to have to home brew something.

[@BrotherVoidBomber]

I have roughly 2500 deathwatch, 2500 Grey knights and 5000 guard. Im not done with 40k but i am done with current 10th editon and it has everything to do with free wargear, boring lack of subfactions/(i miss my chapter master mr red wake.) And power level being forced into the game. Im going to wait until maybe 11th comes around or i feel like playing again. Ive enjoyed just painting for fun instead of painting to build an army i want to play.

[@harrylane7817]

Honestly, I haven’t played much of 10th because the core rules are just bad. They just feel sloppy. Them getting rid of proper points and even a basic force organisation chart is just salt in the wound. The only 10th event I will be going to is a charity event because I bought a ticket back in February. I don’t think I could ever truly quit 40K because I could never forgive myself if I sold my metal Guard army. That said, this edition launch has disappointing. GW definitely needs to have a chat with their game designers and PR team, especially if it starts to impact their quarterly figures.

[@LtTrenz]

A lot of us at my local store quit playing tournament play because of the ridiculous prices for individual squads, the way they treat the local gaming stores, and the constant rules changes. Most of us switched to Bolt Action or are just buying 3d printed proxies for the 40k stuff we want. Our local store said using 3d printed stuff is fine so long as 75% of the army is official GW stuff, which is easy as most of us have been playing the game since 4th ed. Bolt Action/K47 is the way to go though, way more fluid, easier rules, cheaper price wise, and the rules are more constant to where you don't have to adjust your army every 3 years.

[@mastergmoore]

I’ve heard a lot of good things about gunpowder. Like massive battles are cheaper and faster at the apocalypse scale. I’ve debated on making a general grant army but I have no idea what the scene looks like but the terrain looks lovely.

[@ethantaylor9613]

Everyone here should come try Ice and Fire, it costs way less, is way better balanced, and a new sculpt generally doesn’t have better stats. The Boltons just came out!

[@christopherbarnes1358]

So I'm just getting into 40k end of 9th begging of 10th but did have some experience with fantasy. Getting into it now has some pros like the models have never looked better (that's a huge part of the whole experience) and there's so many ways to learn the game and experience different armies like killteam and combat patrol. Also I'm new I'm just learning my army and core rules. doing that in 9th was cool with a fleshed out codex with so many options but with no collection and limited understanding it puts u at a big disadvantage so coming in during 10th everyone is navigating the core rules and new army rules the same time so there's something to be said for that. That being said with the launch of tenth and looking at this game for the first time knowing it's been around 30 plus years it makes you wonder, does every launch go this way, is the community this divided and miserable or is it because we didn't have the Internet when I played fantasy so it was people teaching each other about a hobby they mutually enjoyed, now we learn it from the web which is a content creating machine trying to gain viewership and sell subscriptions so they all sound like CNN, sky, Fox ECT trying to gain viewers through "hot takes" /click bait. So I just Hope it doesn't fall apart always wanted to get into it and finally have the time, money, and found a friend and community to get into this game with hate to jump in as Rome is burning.

[@originalfreak3142]

I'm actually brand new to the hobby, I started getting my first minis back in March. The community in my two local game stores has been wonderful to be around and play with. They're all a bunch of great people.

[@parkwaydrivern5089]

I don’t personally know anyone who has quit the hobby, but I know quite a few of my friends have not moved on from 9th, despite being very aware of all the issues in that edition. This weekend I actually ended up playing a game of 5th with my necrons with a friend of mine who is very into old hammer & mid hammer. It was actually really fun and surprisingly fast. Myself and the same friends when we’re playing 40K 9th or 10th, the experience takes us a good 5-6 hours for one game. Even at less then 2k (I play for the company of some great friends and great stories.) However we managed to fit two games in 4 hours, it was awesome (one only lasted to turn 3 because Dark Reapers were terrifying). Also played an intro game of Zulu with another mate and had a blast with the looser and more casual game system where everything isn’t worded to stop players from exploiting rules, just uses common sense.

[@alessiogiuffrida6172]

Yes, It's true that back in those times games were faster: you just only needed to kill your opponent's expensive units, there weren't objectives to take or secondaries to do; in fact i was more in the WhFb then 40k because i found it so boring and lacking of skill 😐. I take it that the game is cluncky right now, but you still can play the same meatgrind style of games if you want. But if i were you i would try to create a mission from scratches were you don't have to conquest points but do literally "things" like take the factory building, keep It under control for one turn then move to the power buidings to shut them down etc. A much more narrative way to play with friends on a evening like It was a sort of Command & Conquer campaign game

[@madviola183]

That's it! The treadmill. You gave a name to why I left at the end of 8th. I was done with what I felt was the constant change. I stopped trying to build my army, because it frustrated me that I was spending so much money on something I liked, but felt I couldn't use. By that time, I had been listening to MG for a while, and kept on listening/watching because I liked your content, even if I didn't play the game.

[@jayteegamble]

'I waited 5 years for my codex then barely got to play with it" is accurate but at least that codex contains a ton of typos.

[@chrisjennings6610]

I’ve been considering downsizing my investment into the hobby. Meaning I’m likely to get rid of the majority of the stuff I own, keep an army or two to play at my LGS, and pursue other hobbies that I get more enjoyment out of. I still enjoy playing 40K, but this almost constant up and down of what’s good and bad is getting very tiring and borderline stressful.

[@GodlikePoet]

The bit about Combat Patrol is really quite accurate. I've had a couple of close ones but more than not it's been over in all ways except formality by the end of the first turn of BR2.

[@cinadel5546]

Well said MG. You hit upon many of my complaints and the reason I will not invest further into 40k. After many, many years of being out of 40k I jumped back in with Leviathan and now regret it. My biggest gripe is that the rules were obviously not play tested because if they were then you wouldn't need errata after only a few months. Maybe that was GW's plan all along to sell us an updated 10.2 edition. The final blow came when I learned that my original Space Marine collection that I had in storage for years were no longer supported. Old squads of Mk 6 and 7 armor marines, jump troops, scouts, bikes, and more are no longer viable. The metal terminators that originally hooked me into 40k are now based wrong and tiny, compared to the new models. I will say this though I've assembled and painted 98% of the Leviathan marines and they are gorgeous! But what am I going to do with them? Right now, they are setting on the shelve besides my other figures collecting dust. To those still playing and enjoying 40k I wish you well.

[@andreravenna4435]

The story you told is very close to mine. I'm fedd upp. GW endless patches, power creep, and unbalanced rules. I might come back but i doubt it

[@Millipede666]

GW can't change because the FOMO + codex creep business model is too profitable. Furthermore, as the economy becomes more unequal in terms of wages/wealth, selling premium products with massive markups to an affluent consumer will be how GW will increase profits going forward. 40k will not be a hobby for people earning median incomes.

[@alexlerouge1170]

Im taking a 2 week break from playing 40k at the very least. After smashing my head against the wall with Death Guard for the last few months I need a break. Dont get me wrong the changes to Death Guard have me excited but i absolutely am so tilted from 2-3 months of constantly getting tabled or losing horribly, doing research changing my strategy and then losing really badly again on repeat. I didn't want to go out and spend a bunch of models on stuff i won't use in a couple months so ive just been stuck in this stagnant bog of suffering so even though everything has gotten updated i need to get out wash off my mentality and analyze how i want to approach getting back into the game and whether I want to.

[@nordstram2854]

Haven't played a game of 10th. 9th was enough of a transition, it will be some time before I get back into it. Feeling a little exasperated with all the turbulance, the balance dataslate made it harder to see how my armies would be run.

[@SolidusPL]

I gave up on 40k after the second wave of removing old SM models, especially old dreadnoughts that I bought at the end of 9th edition, assembled and painted, and now are collecting dust in the display case. I'm not selling because my wife forbids me to do so, after I sold my old 40k collection and bretonnias to FB 14 years ago. I'm currently waiting for the 11th edition, we'll see what comes out of the old SMs and whether they will just stay SM SM. I have currently bought, assembled and painted a starter for General Sosabowski's BA paratroopers and invested in a new CoS.

[@The.LastMelon]

I have honestly felt like the game is not for me anymore. The models are becoming monopose game pieces, whole factions are shifting and being removed and replaced with a whole different one (Space Marines) the rules are changing and when you try to talk about things like "why are we cutting mats and not using a 4*6 table" you just get "that how they made it just fall in line" I feel 40k is getting destroyed. For me 10th is a wash. I am going to just into Legion Imperialis. I am making tables and printing armies getting ready to get my friends in because I an just so sick of the changes of 40k rules. I can't keep up and I just won't. I might look into onepage or star grave but ATM I am not interested in 40k. Which hurts because I love 40k. I loved the game and played in events every weekend. Would travel for a event and stay over but now trying to just play is crazy. The FAQs data slates, meta watch, erratas ect I hate it. I hate that GW can't leave the game alone to breath. Yeah some stuff is broken but by the time you figure out how to deal with it they nerf it, you and break 10 other things. I don't want to have keep buying stuff every 2 weeks. I want to get into something GW doesn't change every few days. Which is anything but 40k.

[@BlizzAz]

I started playing 40k in 2nd edition, played all the way into 4th, but never bought into 5th-7th. Got into 8th, skipped 9th, decided to give 10th a go since the rules were "free"... So I'm not a noob to any of this. GW today are not the same company as 20 years ago, and it's a shame because there was so much enthusiasm and care put into every product. I see the same passion in companies like Warlord, Mantic, and OPR that GW once had; so I prefer to support them over GW as much as possible.

[@bobross268]

me and my group refused to touch 10th and have swtiched over to heresy an onlywar instead we actually stopped after angron was added. We just felt like it wasn't for us anymore and we're gonna just be sticking to more of the fun stuff to play that doesn't feel like we're undercutting each others rules 9th at a certain point just felt like Magic the gathering. Where everyone just continually argued at the table. I feel like heresy is a lot better about that the only thing that sucks is the variety of races but the variety of weapons and troops is awesome and we've all collectively loved it Last game I played we had 40 tanks and APCs on the field and it was a blast I truly recommend it

[@thecasualwargamer5195]

As someone who absolutely loved 8th and 9th, 10th took some time to grow on me but now I'm enjoying more and more. The only issue I have, outside of initial balance issues, is that each edition doesn't live long enough. 3 years between editions is too too soon. 5 years would be a better time frame so that actually get to play the rules and each codex.

[@McBurnside6380]

I can't name a single other game system that needed ten editions to get right. Players of other games wouldn't tolerate that and simply move on. Best editions for 40K were late 3rd to early 5th. They could have stopped making editions at that point. All they needed was to balance the codex's and edit some rules. The main problem is the need to fulfill obligations to shareholders. So the cycle is like this, 1. release new edition 2.trickle in new codex's that unbalance the game 3. cause further chaos by altering points values and strength of individual units and ultimately breaking the entire game. 4. release new edition so you have to buy all new books. It's a total scam from a very evil corporation that prays upon it's consumers by using addiction psychology.

[@thecasualwargamer5195]

@@McBurnside6380 I do agree with you 100% - GW are not a good company and their methods are awful. I stick with them because I do enjoy the game system/s.

[@kausalkraken5951]

The game is dead at my local scene (about 50 people). We switch over to AOS, flames of war, kill team, or bolt action. The big winner lately is turnip28. That is a fun game.

[@MrEllahrairah]

There has been a very different reaction in my local area... the ones that complain and say they would never play again, but were back at it after a 2 week break essentially... and this is the one that surprises me... It has resurrected interest. I am seeing people that I havent seen in years.. and I mean a decade at times suddenly appearing for 40k games. So.. color me surprised. Most of these people arent the type to travel for events, but rather just the local scene.

[@theStamax]

In 10e the previous codex release cycle (aside from Codex issues in general with being outdated on release and such) is absolutely unacceptable. Imagine having to play the entire edition with 1 detachment, then finally getting it and a new edition coming out half a year later resetting everyone back to 1. How could anyone think that's a good idea or acceptable is beyond me.

[@matthewbilger9861]

My local scene is about the same size as always. 8-12 people in the monthly local league. Back in 6-7th Ed. everyone quit and bought in X-Wing, Malifaux, Warmahordes, Infinity, etc. Those games died , and I think people have been gun-shy about trying anything else. GW is like Magic the Gathering, it will always be here. I don’t think most people want to put the time and money into the collection aspect of another miniature system.

[@swardy27]

The last codex situation did make me take a step back and cut my spending by a lot. Heavy Gear Blitz has models from the 90s that they still support and all the rules are free. there is no reason GW cant release rules for free to test then send off to print after the community does the testing for them.

[@ianreiter835]

I'll be honest that 10th really just rubbed me the wrong way. Loss of codexes hurt, especially when I just got Guard only to lose it. The loss of sub-factions in general feels like the most vanilla maneuver I've ever witnessed in the hobby. Honestly something that REALLY hurt me was the loss of allied detachments, or detachments in general. Soup was bad in 9th, but now it's impossible with the exception of Agents/Knights. GW as a company makes me sad. I got in during 5th, and they've made mostly bad decisions since then. I still love the lore and a few friends and I play 9th for narrative games (completely unbalanced, meant to tell a story; more like 1st edition than the recent ones), but for pickup matches? We've started playing Bolt Action again, as well as Team Yankee and Star Wars: Legion, amongst some other things. A lot of Necromunda too, as much as I hate the book collection needed for it. Ultimately, I don't hate 40k or even GW, but there's a negative connotation in the local group I play with, and a lot of people prefer 9th, and a few have even played some games of 3rd/5th/etc.

[@Raising_Runelords]

I've only played 3 editions of 40k, 2nd, 9th and now 10th. 2nd is still my favourite, maybe it's nostalgia, maybe it was just more fun to play, I know the rules of 2nd were a complicated mess, I know faction balance didn't exist, but it was a fun gaming experience to play. 9th edition was needlessly complicated, and 10th is just as bad but at least the factions in 9th were better balanced towards the end of the edition with rules that worked and it felt pretty good to play, I may have been playing a non-meta list, but I felt like I had a chance to win if I played well. In 10th I don't feel I can compete, the Towering rule for Knights, the Devastating Wounds causing Mortal Wounds, the Terrain rules (yeah I know they all got some errata recently, but I've not played those rules yet) I feel like the game itself is telling me "cough up some cash for the good models you don't have or just don't play anymore" and there is a cost of living crisis at the moment, and my salary is barely above the living wage so that's not an option I have right now. If not for 3D printing, I wouldn't even have a field-able 2k Astra Militarum list.

[@thecreeperkingplays]

Been playing since 5th edition. I've played 3 games of 10th and the feeling i got after each one was that it just wasnt fun. To me it just felt like 9th again. The game itself is so arcayic with issues that havent been fixed since 7th. I'm spending my time more and more playing other wargames like middle earth and star wars legion and loving every moment of it.

[@Nygaard2]

GW needs to have a more fun activation system, a la Heroscape or Bolt Action, or even board games like Memoir 44. Removing models from the table before you’ve had a chance to touch them is killing it for new players, especially kids. You know future geeks...

[@jonrollason5709]

I'm not sure alternating activations is a silver bullet for all the game's problems with being boring and disheartening, but it's SUCH an easy and obvious fix to at least try...

[@jeremy8936]

I'm a guards player and that codex release in 9th really stung.. Not a coincidence that I have not painted any minis, or played since then.

[@flowinsounds]

my friend plays guard, and I felt stung by what happened. was so looking forward to playing him with my 'nids. Then 10th was announced, and he decided not to paint up the guard plastic he bought, and all of our melee armies broke, but the newbies all wanted to play 10th, not 9th, and it all went limp and i've played no games since the 10th announcement. Its not even fun to watch 10th ed batreps. the game sucks now

[@Swrdfshtrmbns]

I was on the 10E hype train because at first I loved the rules changes, but the combination of going two steps back with free wargear, the silly index/codex creep, barely being able to make a list before something becomes shit in two months, and the way GW treats the hobby in the way James describes has just soured me completely on it. Bolt Action is so much more refreshing and I realized it has nothing to do with it being a balanced game, because it isn’t. It’s about being treated like an adult. It’s about stability. It’s about having actual terrain and a good scale of combat that doesn’t feature inappropriate knights or dumb gotcha weapons and rules. 40K just seems for children by comparison. I paint and collect metal Mordian and Tallarn because I want to imagine I’m playing 3-5E but my imagination is sadly just a cope. It has been way easier getting people excited for Bolt Action than 40K, never mind the lower buy in cost, especially with people who have never done tabletop gaming before.

[@nomisekul4969]

I quit Warhammer before guard got it's codex last edition. It's just all the little things gw did that just annoyed me and made me just dislike playing and buying their products. We were waiting the whole of 9th to get a codex, with all these additional books and stuff, then the codex finally came but it doesn't matter because the new edition came out and made it irrelevant, just like your friend you mentioned. They got rid of support for KZbin animators and fan things, ordered spies on people, all that scandal, which I hated to my gut as KZbin is free advertising for them and they killed it in the name of money. They continuously hike prices and change meta on the fly for money grabbing, bring out new stuff that you have to pay a premium for to use only for it to get patched. It ruins tournaments as people who spam and have cash to throw away can just buy wins. Furthermore the turn style is old now, getting shot off the table without being able to do anything about it based purely on one dice roll. It's all these little things that just make it not a thing I want to play anymore. I used to love playing competitively but I just don't have the time or money to have to keep focusing on constant changes all the time that rewrite how to play and buying updated stuff to play at tournaments with. Bolt Action is the way now for me, it just needs more attention and it can be such a better sport. Warhammer is, as you mentioned with the local communities diminishing, elitist. It very much bonuses people who have the energy, money, and time, and throws out the others because they aren't the ones that bring the money in. You mention all of this in the video though so well done for explaining so well.

[@tedwilliams491]

I don't get to play the game often, but have moved away from my armies only being useable with the 40k rules. My Guard, Marines, Necrons and Admech are all structured so I can use them with OPR or Xenos Rampant. After seeing my forces nerfed various times I've had just enough of the grind. I did consider quitting completely but I've just invested too much in my little plastic men to do that.

[@simulation1158]

To be honest, i have only played one game of 40k in the past 10 years. I am looking at bulding a deathwatch army for official 40k events (if i want to take part in them). But in all honesty i am more likely to use those modles for a OPR game than a 40k game, for no other reason than I find the OPR system more fun and i have more people to play with. But aside from OPR more competition is opening up for 40k and that is a good thing. 40k is still on top, but game play and company-wide decisions are pushing people to different games within the hobby, wich I think ultimately will be a good thing.

[@Emidretrauqe]

I personally avoid buying anything that isn't a codex and after 9th edition I'm just about done doing that as well.

[@CarlotheNord]

I've taken a break from 40K since 9th edition, various reasons. Decided to give Battletech a try. May or may not come back to 40K now that I've seen what's out there.

[@timothylyons5686]

I'm not quitting the game per say, l've just decided to play using one page rules. Using this rule set l book a table, turn up with two armies based on lore rather than points or power ratings, set up, roll dice and the winning army is the one that survives. No objective markers, no stratagems, no one hundred re-rolls. At the end of the game level more relaxed and it's good for my mental health. That doesn't mean that l don't buy GW models as at the moment they are still the best.

[@dannyevilcat]

The churn, and the super shady way they announced phasing out a bunch of old space marine models after giving many of them good rules in the 10th edition index have definitely impacted my interest in 40K. On top of that, the new points system really sucks, and makes list building harder, not easier. To be honest, the churn didn't bother me so much when I had more disposable income, since it kept the game fresh, but now that the cost of living has gone soaring, it's certainly lost it's appeal. I haven't quit the game, but I've only played 2 games of 10th, and I've bought way less new stuff. Also, having invested a lot into my Scion army, but now with the Kasrkins and the refresh of the Guard line, that don't have the same proportions as Scions, which were scaled towards old Cadians, I'm worried GW might just phase them out altogether in a few years.

[@DavidGuyll]

At my semi local GW gaming store, they still have like six or so Leviathan boxes stacked up. I suppose I'm lucky in that I don't play in tournaments or at stores: just with my wife and kids. So it doesn't really affect us all that much.

[@RPGgoo]

I recently gave my old space marine army to my son's friend because the kid loved to paint. Now the kid loves warhammer, and as it turns out, his Dad used to play orks. That's how you build the hobby. Friends, family, and painting, with an actual game every once in a blue moon. (Or in my case, brew house bash with the kids) That's life for 90% of the people in this hobby but it's also not going to show up in data.

[@lMrJackl]

I tell myself I havn't quit, and I still have all my stuff, but the fact is I havn't played one game of 10th, and I only played about 5 games of 9th. My local gaming group closed down after attendance dropped too low to fund the venue, and the club organiser was paying from his own pocket for several months in a vain effort to keep it going. So I guess it's not just me feeling fed up of it all.

[@jaynexus1639]

Yeah, I have stepped out. I just do not find it fun at this time. The lists are very rigid contrary to my enjoyment of having alot of fun customizing cool strategies. That is kinda gone now.

[@pat0652]

While they did some great things at the start of this edition, there is still too much of the toxic elements out there in their rules business model. The one that really spooked me, was giving the Leviathan, the Kratos, and a bunch of the Chaos FW stuff the Legends treatment. I had dipped my toe into 40K with a small project making Chaos cultists, just for fun, with the idea of then moving on to a more serious Guard Army. Then the Iron Hands Christmas box came out, and boy was I tempted to get that plus a Kratos and a Leviathan as the centerpieces, after all, they PROMISED those would be useful for 40K. Then they hit those units with the Legends stick...it's pretty clear to me that you can't spend serious money on the hobby with the idea of PLAYING. If you like the way your Renegades and Heretics Army looks? GREAT, but don't count on being able to play it. I'll keep Battletech as my "to play" game, I KNOW Catalyst won't pull the rug out from under me on the play front.

[@RotnDot]

Been playing for 20+ years now. I've got a couple of playable armies: Adepta Sororitas, Space Marines, Imperial Knights, Imperial Guard, etc. I've customized most of my armies, I'm a slow modeller/painter as I'm a dad of two and need to balance my free time. I've lovingly converted units only to see them scrapped by the time I got them ready. I was used to spend over 100£/month on GW, the last couple of years I'm spending less then 100£/year. It's simply not motivating that a) you can hardly get the models you want, because they're hyped over the top only to be "sold out online" for months., or b) when you finish a unit you lovingly converted, customized and painted for ages, you can no longer use it *cough Conscripts and veterans*. I don't even care about the specific rules in an edition. I'm Guard, son, I'll adapt. It's the business ethic that is killing it for me. Right now, I'm finishing up the backlog I've collected over the years. I'm not purchasing new models, because I know by the time I finish them, they can be worthless and obsolete. Haven't played a 40K game in over 4 years. After years of being a loyal GW customer, I've been looking for alternatives for the first time ever. But it's a large universe. There is absolutely no doubt I will not be missed.

[@DavidWilliams-mm9ti]

its the competitiveness they fostered that is also a killer it should b competitive as in fair as possible and create a story on the table not oass me my flammable,gaudy neon tshirt team competitive must win types

[@nightwatchm4n]

As a new player who's only been around for 10 months I think what's happening is a generational turnover in the customer base. At my LGS I've seen lots of veteran players generally around the age of 35+ either grumbling or tapping out but on the flip side I've seen a lot of new under 35 players learning the ropes and other players in the same range that played 8th, left during 9th, but are coming back to try 10th. GW has spent the last several years making a massive multimedia push to entice new customers with something more accessible in the form of entertainment media. From my own anecdotal experience, the biggest barriers to entry for 40K are money and finding a point of entry into the hobby. For me, my best friend, and few other people I know, that multimedia push was what allowed us to finally get in after years of hesitation. For me, I started watching episodes of Hammer & Bolter which led me to start rambling about it to friends, after which my best friend bought a Sororitas combat patrol, which prompted me to buy a 9th ed. starter set for Necrons, which then prompted my brother to get back in after not having played since 3rd edition. There's definitely a lot of rightful contention with the state of 10th edition but I think my big takeaway is that the competitive scene is in tatters while the casual scene is becoming more prominent to compensate for the lopsided nonsense happening in competitive. Just my two cents as a newbie.

[@HHWorldspawn]

This is obviously just my opinion but for me there were some major letdowns with 10th that made me consider throwing the whole collection in the trash (I ended up not doing it, hoping things will change instead, maybe with 11th?). First of all, and this is by far the largest, almost all my officers, super heavies, tanks, sentinels, well, vehicles in general etc are ALL obsolete simply because of all the wargear suddenly becoming free. I mean, why field an officer with laspistol and chainsword when you could give it free power sword/fist and a plasma pistol? Most vehicles lack free upgrades like Hunter Killer Missiles and back when I got the super heavies they were sold with only 1 set of sponsons (2nd set had to be bought separately) and the second pair of sponsons cost extra points. Now? One set of sponsons cost the same as two sets of sponsons and GW even made the 2nd set free and optional for some reason (could've just allowed the tank to fire the 1 set twice if only had one set or given them different points). Not a single sentinel got the chainblade etc. I know this might seem silly, what's good or not changes all the time but there were always point differences meaning there were reasons to make those choices. Then we got the 2nd downside with 10th and their "points" system (why not just call it power level?) in that it's just not interesting. Making army lists in 9th was fun, 10th isn't even remotely interesting. Feels like going from playing Super Smash Bros Ultimate to Urban Champion (old NES game). 3rd thing is that by making most characters into what is practically squad upgrades removed the feeling of them being special characters. Sure, they give the squad some new buff but the feeling is just gone. Now, I'm not all salty as I do find the new special rules associated with each unit quite interesting due to them getting some new flavor but that's pretty much the only positive thing that comes to mind as of writing. Consolidating some of the rules was also good from a practical point of view but doesn't do much beyond that as far as making the game itself interesting.

[@Rothgar59]

I have been playing since Rogue Trader days and only stopped for a while when i had a young family and didn't have the time, now I'm older with a larger disposable income. I got back in at the end of 8th and started expanding my old armies, my guard army has barely expanded as the old regiments are now only made to order once in a blue moon, and i don't like Cadians. My Space marine collection was expanding, I love the old lore of marines using relic equipment lovingly maintained and repaired over thousands of years. But almost all those kits are gone and we are left with generic "tacticool" Primaris marines that I don't collect. I have migrated to HH 2.0 because it has the same marine aesthetics I like, but that doesn't seem to supported very well and the community is left waiting years for basic assault marines. I tried Star Wars Legion and loved the game, ended up spending thousands of dollars on the models and now play it the most often with my friends, that money that would have previously gone to GW, but they are no longer producing much I'm actually interested in buying. I dread their new Space Marine releases as it usually means they remove an older beloved kit at the same time, and send more of my models to legends, it's going to get to the point where I put my GW models in the display cabinet and never play Warhammer 40K again.

[@thequestbro]

GW did mention they were going to overprint leviathan.

[@robertlowe4784]

I've never been bothered about winning at events, I normally just make a list around what was recently painted and turn up just to have fun, so basically just treat tournaments as casual games 😅 probably been lucky and never been up against a "that guy" or ultra competitive player who's going to argue over ¼" or something either

[@ianb3409]

Yeah, I mean my faction is Drukhari and it's nearly unplayable at tournaments becasue GW doesn't sell grotesques, mandrakes, and court of the archon mini's and doesn't allow proxies of them. Plus they have no variaty anymore, it's just dark lance spam, and with no changes in sight. I prefer OPR over 40k primarily because the turns are i go you go, games are faster, its more accessible with models/ rules, and I believe I'm supporting a better company. Hoping that the OPR community keeps growing. I'll keep my army because I love painting them, but I don't have any motivation to play/learn 40k or buy gw mini's at thier prices. I'll stick with 3d prints and keep looking for OPR games

[@mjhsinclair]

Every hobby always has people quitting. Most people don’t play the same games for the long term - that’s a minority. What we don’t know (outside tournaments given balance issues) is whether that flow out is greater and how it compares to flow in for 40K right now (and in the future). Why don’t you ask Element Games next time you’re there? Someone like that. That’s the real test. Leviathan sold more than Indomitus. They just made more.

[@sonicwingnut]

I think the data on tournament attendance should maybe be put in the context of the start of previous editions if the data were even available - the reason being there may simply be a dip in tournament attendance due to the new edition itself. Firstly things are seldom that balanced at the start of a new edition, so people may simply wait for a bit before playing. Secondly because everyone's army lists will have changed a lot of folk are probably still painting and modelling either additions to their army or even doing an entirely different faction.

[@mouthfullofrocks9911]

After seeing and hearing all of the Tyranids reveals from the new Codex I dived into the pile of shname and pulled every tyranid model and began building and priming as I was really excited to run them with the new codex. I had a list for what I wanted to play and the codex dropped the value of that list opening up over 200 points to play with. Then came the "balance" dataslate and the cost of that initial Nids list went up. So as that 200 point drop turned into a rise of almost 100 points my enthusiasm just dropped off again. Before the Codex was officially released, it was nerfed for bad business sense as units with new models GW wants to sell were targeted for point increases, too.

[@wyatttyson7737]

Not only do I not know a single person who has stopped playing 40k since I started in 2021, but I’ve actually seen more people in my local area play warhammer in 10th than 9th. My personal group is in the process of going from 4 to 9 (5 players building towards our standard 1k) and my local game store is incredibly packed. Just this last Saturday every single table had at least one full game going and 3 spectators who were waiting to use the table. I’ve never seen even half as many people in that store ever in the 2 and a half years as in the last few months.

[@AlanHaskayne]

I know my girlfriend and I just aren't feeling this edition. We were really hyped up for it, and as soon as the points dropped we had a game of 10th. It was meh, but we determined it was probably that it was just our first game. Then we tried again, and again, and neither of us could find the fun in 10th edition. I am not one of those people to throw out armies over a single edition, so we are just going to put our 40k armies on ice, maybe do a little Horus Heresy with them, but mostly focus on other games. A bit of Flames of War, maybe some Bolt Action, and wait to see what 11th brings.

[@IBPaintsppp-wt5ou]

I have been getting into the miniature gaming hobby. I've played both OPR and 40k and I enjoy OPR over 40k by a large margin. OPR has a free and awesome army builder app, flexibility on models, i-go-you-go, it has more customization, no treadmill, and fast games. So I'll stick with OPR, lots of 3D printed models, and just a few GW models when it's really worth it to me. I think the flavor and tactical complexity of 40k is better, but overall I prefer OPR. I hope, and am encouraging, more people start playing OPR so I have more people to play.

[@USALibertarian]

Luckily I quit 40K before I really even started. So I could avoid the sunk cost psychology.

[@averagetosaverage8785]

Quiting the game, probably not... however I do believe many people have excused themselves from going to competitive events just because of the Eldar dominance. However I'm confident that with the balance changes we shall see raising participation again.

[@jo_ken]

Probably this. I do imagine there will be a little resurgence of some people wanting to test the waters again after the dataslate, but I think Eldar are still up there.

[@averagetosaverage8785]

@@jo_ken for sure. Guard, Votann, and Eldar are the armies I own, and Eldar will still be a top 5. Though I do believe more armies can have a seat at the table

[@jackrogers5712]

The pain for me is how late 9th was in such an excellent place for competitive play. While not perfect, just about every faction could have a decent run at a tournament. Replacing Arks of Omen with early 10th was just an awful downgrade.

[@Tar-Míriel]

Add me to the list of dedicated 40k players who've given up. 10 edition killed it.

[@Deathelement53]

Tried to get into 10th. Watched videos got excited. Mad a 1k list and fully painted it and only got 2 games with it before gw changed it and nerfed it (it was an arty list) and remembered why I quit years ago. Going back to sw legion...it's just better

[@Ralndrath]

In all honesty, I really haven't played 40k since...5th...edition? Got into 40k in 3rd as a kid (man, I feel old lol) I only got sorta into it again when I began making my own TT Skirmish game based off my Diesel Punk/Fantasy book series The Angaran Chronicles and decided I needed to play Skirmish Games to see rule sets etc (had an intro game of Necromunda, a few games of WarCry and quite a few games of the older edition of Kill Team, took part in a tournament) so that sent me down a bit of a rabbit hole of making more Kill Teams etc. I tried to get into Kill Team 2021 but I had no one to play against in my town and it was a bit too complex. So I found One Page Rules Grimdark Future: Firefight and it's GREAT. I started a Tabletop Skirmish Game Club in my town for the kids and we use GFF as the main game and the kids love it. It's core mechanics are simple but it has a lot of depth due to the Special Rules and I'm a Patron so can make my own factions based on my minis they don't have Rules for such as Gaunt's Ghosts and my characters from my 40k/Dark Heresy continuity Secret War like Attelus Kaltos, Arlathan Karkin etc. I'm slowly building up an army or two for Grimdark Future I already have a lot of Eldar, more than enough for a 2000 GF force or two but I'm also building up a Chaos Space Marine force, and eventually a Custodes Force for people to play in my club. I think it's really great, too bad it's so unknown so it's hard to have tournaments and I don't think the lore is that great but I use the lore of 40k instead.