Are Old Table Saws Trash??

[@worstworkshop]

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[@TheLastRecreationalLearner]

You got a sponsor. Nice! I'm not in the market now for such a thing, but it did get me thinking about when I get older maybe needing to invest in comfort if I am going to keep making stuff.

[@bobbg9041]

You by law have to tell people items you show its because they are your sponcer. Its law. So does that mean my Jet hybrid type direct drive table saw's no good? You think for the 1,700 bucks it cost it be ok. Delta brand made some older contractor type saws that were direct drive but still used a tiny belt They had no tension adjustments And the belt was so tight the cheap pot metal broke, but its ok the motor shaft was made out of very soft steel that was not heat treated So it would bend. I gave 20 bucks for that saw because it had cast iron top, I plan on making a router table out of it, and keeping the tilt adjustments in tact so you have a 90 to 45 dgr angle adjustments. You can find older good saws cheap now, thanks to sawstop.

[@robertcisek3990]

I have a Craftsman 113 table saw. I bought it in 1978, shortly after moving into my first house. I bought a Craftsman saw because it was what I could afford at the time, and I used it for small, odd jobs around the house. Over time, my interest in woodworking grew, but my tool budget did not. As a result, I purchased several after-market upgrades: a new fence, a new link belt for the motor, built a table for improved dus collection etc. To date I have completed many projects, including kitchen cabinets, furniture and various casework items. My skill level is Intermediate or Intermediate+. All with my trusty Craftsman. I have found that quality work ccomes from the craftsman, not the tools themselves.

[@worstworkshop]

Amen to that!

[@MakerBoyOldBoy]

@@robertcisek3990 I am 77. My late father, carpenter and cabinet maker bought Craftsman tools as did all of his generation. I gew up with Craftsman tools. My father's last Craftsman purchase was a table arm cross cut saw and built a run up and run off bench for it. When he finally turned it on he almost cried at the horrible noise it made from being so poorly built. The purchase was after Craftsman had abandoned its quality products for cheaply made irreparable ones for profit. Many years later I experimented and bought a Craftsman router. Design and build was so poor it failed at first project. Poorly made tools are deadly regardless of craftsman skills. No rational argument to refute.

[@richpeggyfranks490]

I recently helped a friend restore his 1986 5HP, 230 volt Grizzly tablesaw. We roughly followed all your steps. He didn't have a 230 volt outlet. But, his water heater is in his shop, so we added a dryer type plug and outlet. Now he unplugs the water heater and plugs in his saw when he's in the shop. We added an Incra fence system and it mated up to the existing fence rail bolt holes. We replaced the arbor bearings with standard bearings from NAPA. We made zero inserts from 3/4" MDF by using a pattern router bit following the original insert. Perfect fit. He bought the MicroJig splitter system that we added to the inserts. He also made a sheet metal bucket to fit under the trunnion with a 4" dust collector fitting. It is a beast, accurate, safer than when it was new and just works unbelievably well. Thx.

[@worstworkshop]

That sounds AWESOME! I've wired mine for 240v as well, but I did the wiring in my shop, so I'd intended on that. Working on that arbor was a very good idea. I replaced mine because it was bent a little, and made sure to clean and grease up the bearings when I did. It makes a big difference

[@RonaldDCass]

I have several 10 inch Craftsman table saws bolted edge to edge to provide a wide, solid cast iron table with 4 blades to choose from. I keep two arbors setup with dadoe blades as well as a rip and crosscut blades. Cheaper to use another saw than an extension, plus you get additional options.

[@worstworkshop]

For real?? That's so cool!

[@Griffinwoodworks]

As an owner of 2 craftsman 113 saws, I have to agree wholeheartedly on every last one lol. My fences are almost like yours, except they have a screw in handle to lock it down. It’s absolutely accurate after you spend the time to adjust it, as you’ve stated.

[@worstworkshop]

I'm glad to hear it. I understand the criticism of the fences. The cheaper ones are tricky, but I'm glad I'm not the only one with a fence that just works.

[@TheRealClutch1010]

A new video from my favorite KZbin wood worker, yes! For rust removal I like to use naval jelly. It does a wonderful job of dissolving the rust and should help with reducing the amount of sanding.

[@worstworkshop]

Thank you! Naval jelly is great, but many years ago I used it in a space that wasn't ventilated well enough and the smell stuck around for a while. I can't do it anymore. It is great though!

[@briannelson4122]

I have an old Craftsman 113 circa .-1978. I got it in pieces for nothing during the pandemic, so I had lots of time to refurbish it. I built it into a table and it really felt very stable. I added a cast iron router wing and an Incra fence that brought it to the next level of stability and accuracy. I did the splitter/zero clearance insert too, but the absolute best thing from a safety standpoint was to add the Jessem stock guides. The wheels pull the material into the fence and apply downward pressure holding it to the table. Also , the wheels only spin one way and don't let the material move backward, greatly reducing the possibility of "kickback". I recently added a modern 2 hp induction motor (old one finally gave up the ghost!) and it really dose cut like a much more expensive saw. Did I spend a little bit for the extras- ya, but I needed a fence and the safety stuff was a must in my book.

[@worstworkshop]

You did it right. In the next video, I'm going to be doing more kickback prevention. Those Jessem guides are pricey, but cheaper than medical bills

[@justamember24]

Going to check out the Jessem stock guides now, I think that would be a great investment for my little 113 Craftsman! Thanks!

[@fiveduckstudio]

The nice thing about putting the work in is that when a thing breaks, you know how it works already. My A/C went out a few days ago, previously the Wife and I figured out how to fix the furnace, and because I took the time to learn that plus the basics of electrical repair, we saved $350 to fix something that took 30mins to fix only cost us $20.

[@worstworkshop]

That's true, but dadgum! You figured out an air conditioner?? That's awesome!

[@fiveduckstudio]

@@worstworkshop KZbin can be a powerful weapon! I'm just a lot of people will use this video to put together a great table saw !

[@fiveduckstudio]

@@worstworkshop It feels good this week! Every day this week will be in the 100s, not including the humidity 🥵

[@justamember24]

We rescued an old Craftsman saw from the trash heap and it's been great. Since it was free, we could splurge on a new fence (the one it had was broken), we bought a new motor (on clearance) from harbor freight, a new v link belt (also harbor freight), the paddle switch from the rainforest, and I spent a lot of time sanding/polishing the surface. Then I found some aluminum wings on craigslist to add on. Finally, I built a quick and dirty stand for it based on a Steve Ramsey video. I have a 3d printer, and may try using that to make a new insert plate, since we are still using the original one. 😬 Someone makes little riving plugs, but I can't remember who it is. Then a year ago I dismantled my Bosch router table and added it to the saw instead of one of the wings so I could save space in the garage and we've loved it. Is it as safe as a sawstop? No. But I think we have a pretty darn good saw that's quiet and reliable for less than $300 (most of the expense was the fence).

[@worstworkshop]

It's MicroJig that makes those splitters. I love the idea of 3D printing inserts

[@MikeHoncho0811]

I have an old belt drive delta table saw that was give to me without a motor but I had a couple electric motors I had gotten off of jobs so made a bracket and mounted 1 and it cuts just like any other table saw I've used but it's too big and heavy to move around and I have nowhere to keep it setup for use so its stored at a friend's house at the moment

[@ghostshadow1]

Totally agree on the last statements. The type on the right are the ones to avoid. The split insert and rear mounting "splitter" is super dangerous and nothing can be done about it. I had an old Delta like that and the gap was so big chunks would constantly get caught in it. The splitter would never align right or it would move during a cut or even vibrate loose. I tried to mitigate the large faceplate by using tape and it worked but it was so sketchy. One thing that is awesome about some of the really old saws like the craftsman and what not from the 30s - late 60s, they actually had rack and pinion fences on some of them. I've even seen some models that actually had splitters back in the day. It's wild because somewhere along the line they lost those features and now they are almost a must-have these days. Those are the types to buy and restore IMO. Definitely stay away from the ones that look like the one on the left.

[@worstworkshop]

I've seen several that have a geared fence on the front, but not on the back. It's supposed to be for micro-adjustments, I believe, but I've never found it useful

[@Misksound]

bought a second-hand craftsman 113 last year, and i love it! sure it'd be great to have a saw-stop cabinet saw but it took barely any restoration to get it running great, and it was only $75. Restoring one of these things allows you to become familiar with table saws, how they work, and why you would even want things like zero clearance inserts, splitters etc. gotta love that cast iron too! You're not gonna find a new table saw with a cast-iron top for under $200 anywhere... like .. ever.

[@worstworkshop]

I couldn't have said it better. Thanks for your comment!

[@VB-bk1lh]

I feel that any cast iron table saw is worth saving. I've got several here, several Craftsman King Seeley saws, and two Emerson built saws, plus two Atlas saws, one from the 30's and one from the early 50's, plus a Tool Kraft saw from Montgomery Wards in the mid 60's. The Powr-Kraft is my favorite, with the 1954 Atlas being a close second. The Powr-Kraft has the largest top surface, and is fully chrome plated making it very highly rust resistant. Its also got a fully enclosed, side mounted motor which uses a cogged belt vs a V belt for zero slippage. It allows the cabinet to be fully sealed on all sides. I added a clean out door to the rear which is held in place with magnets, so if needs to it can swing open to draw in air to maintain airflow. It has no riving knife, and no blade guard and by the looks of it, it never did. The fence however is single sided, with a strong, wide roller base and a rack and pinion adjustment. Its easy to set and keep square. the fence on the Atlas is a close second but its mostly just two 5ft lengths of 1" angle aluminum with a double ended fence but its wide roller base makes it a step above what Craftsman used back then. The Powr-Kraft with its 1 3/4hp rated motor is stronger and has more power than my 1958 Craftsman '100' does with its modern Baldor 3hp motor. Most likely due to drive ratio and top speed. (The PK runs at close to 6k rpm, nearly 800 rpm more than all the others. With a 60t blade, it makes for butter smooth cuts though but if something kicks back or when making big chips, its like being on the wrong end of a pellet gun or canon. I've learned to wear a leather apron when doing anything risky when using it, especially since I work with PVC and Lexan as well. I've considered making a full Lexan blade guard for it, or maybe just a simple hood to control some of the chips but haven't come up with a way that won't interfere with how it cuts.

[@worstworkshop]

You have an incredible collection! Are you documenting anything on them?

[@chrisvanderwielen1530]

Tool restoration are some of my favorite videos from Mike Farrington. Also, if you look at the tools in his shop, many of the are restoration projects. So, I guess it just boils down to a few things: 1) was it a quality tool to begin with, 2) are parts still available for it, 3) how much effort is involved, and 4) do you have the skill/knowledge to pull it off?

[@worstworkshop]

Nailed it!

[@TopCat2021]

Saw stop saws are nice but too expensive for most non professional woodworkers also most weekend warriors are not dealing with machinist tolerances. Old quality saws are affordable and will do the job at hand(they were used for years successfully) knowing your tool and how to operate it safely cannot be stressed enough nothing is idiot proof. Paying attention to what you’re doing focusing on the job at hand is paramount with any power tool. Supervision and training is top priority when dealing with novices and children. And if one is worried about unauthorized/unsupervised use a key operated switch prevents tragedy.

[@worstworkshop]

It will be interesting if they can get Congress to pass that law requiring the technology in all new saws

[@moseshancock3336]

I have a belt drive craftsman table saw .I have a blue ryobi portable table saw . Both work fine for the job I need to get done. Good video. 👍

[@worstworkshop]

Right. As long as the Ryobi has a riving knife

[@moseshancock3336]

@worstworkshop yes ryobi does have this I use all the safety on my saws when possible.

[@markhayes9004]

It is great to see you again! It was an awesome way for me to wake up with my first cup of coffee and your video. I hope the Texas summer hasn't been too hot for you; it's been about average to maybe a little below average here this summer up here with a little more rain than usual. I've been working on ways to improve my workshop, like an outfeed table for that ancient Craftsmen table saw of mine, a better solution for wood storage, and a new miter station. I haven't been really motivated to do it, because it means I can't build the furniture I like building while I'm building the shop stuff. I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and get it done. I hope everything is wonderful with you and your family. Please take care and have an amazing week.

[@worstworkshop]

Great to hear from you! Summer has been mostly mild, but this last week has been brutal. My next video will have an outfeed solution, but it's a little different. If you're looking for an excuse to procrastinate, feel free to use it! :)

[@woodandwheelz]

David, Looking at your saw, I can see that mine is even older. I completely agree that if you take the time to set it up properly, it's an amazing saw. I know that Stumpy Nubs has a great video on aligning these old saws. I inherited mine from my father, who was the original owner, and he had taught me that the blade and fence didn't line up right so you had to be real careful. Because it pinched at the back half of the cut. Much later, after he passed away, I thought, there has to be a way to align these things, and I found the way. After doing so, and doing some of the things you mentioned, the saw had less vibration, cut straighter/cleaner, and felt safer to use. I wish he was around to share that with him. I'll tell him when I see him again ✝. He did the best he knew how and that's what he taught me. The only thing I didn't hear you say was to make sure the pulleys line up. That was another adjustment I had to make. All of the tools I own, which are Craftsman, are all pre 1980. I inherited them from either my father or my grand father. I wouldn't trade most of them for a more modern version. There are a few upgrades I'd like to make with some tools (i.e. band saw, miter saw (not as old), jointer) but it's only because of limited functionality. My jointer is only a 4 inch jointer. Someday I'd like an 8 inch one. Thank you for a great video explaining the value of these old saws and how to make them safer. God bless you and your family.

[@worstworkshop]

Wow. So many memories in your shop. And you're right about those pulleys. I should have mentioned that

[@EthanBuilds]

That's a great restoration. Very useful for beginner woodworkers 👍

[@worstworkshop]

Thank you very much!

[@tlum4081]

I have a Sears "Craftsman" table saw I bought in 1979 made by Emerson. At the time "professional saws" were generally unavailable for ordinary woodworkers without a huge bank account. Anyway, the fence on the saw is much maligned on woodworking sites and KZbin, however, I learned to always push the "T" against the support rail to square it up before tightening the back clamp point. Always square. I learned this in my drafting class (before CAD) for the T square which the fence is essentially one. Also, I occasionally apply some silicone lube with a Q-tip (sprayed far way from the saw) to the fence T and the rail. It makes the fence slide like it's on ball bearings when adjusting it. Also, the relative low HP motor (advertised as 3Hp, but is really 1-3/4 HP) is actually sort of safety device as I've had the motor stall when cutting thick wood too aggressively. I can then hit the switch to turn off the motor. "Manly" woodworkers with those massive 7-1/2 HP motors would have a really bad kickback situation.

[@worstworkshop]

That silicone lube is a brilliant tip. And I know exactly what you mean about the low power motors. Sometimes stalling is the best thing that can happen to you

[@alanmaag8584]

Great video. I have an old Walker-Turner. Solid as a rock. Only issue is a 9" blade is the largest that fits.

[@Dancing_Alone_wRentals]

Walker Turner.....those are may favorites. I've managed to hurt my table saw but the rest of the Walker Turner fleet found its new home earlier this year. ( have a substitute old school saw in place of the Walker Turner for now )

[@worstworkshop]

I don't think I've ever seen one for sale, but they sure look solid

[@davidc8077]

The only thing you need to do to an older Craftsman table saw. Throw out the fence and get a better one. Although... In 1990, my wife and I went to China and I watched a couple of guys rebuild a temple door with an old saw with wood fence that was clamped with c clamps! They actually did a good job!

[@jodydoakes8754]

I have a King Seeley, Craftsman, 113 table saw my father in law bought new in 1955 to build his family home. He used it for 25 years before I got it; I have used it for 46 years. It has three cast iron wings and weighs a ton! I have upgraded the fence to a Shop Fox system, which I highly recommend, and the miter gauge to an Incra. I sealed it up and added dust collection. It has worked GREAT for me. I repacked the arbor bearings 40 years ago. I might add some sort of riving knife, but after 71 years of use, why? The odds say I probably should.

[@worstworkshop]

It wouldn't hurt to have a zero clearance insert with a splitter. It's just a temporary accessory anyway. Your saw sounds awesome!

[@davegravel3740]

A few years ago i bought my first and only tablesaw. A Craftsman 113. Model. Apparently I got lucky as it was complete with the splitter that I read about 99% of the owners threw out because it supposedly got in the way. Overall it was in great shape. It took me about 2 hours to disassemble at the guys house to get it in my car. After sitting in my garage for a couple years i finally started working on. Cleaned up the rust on the underside of the table and extension wings. Being a fairly short guy i decided to build a cabinet to replace the sheet metal stand and make it a bit lower. Delta t36 fence, upgraded to a 1 1/2 hp motor, machined pulleys, link belt, PALS adjustment , paddle switch. I did buy a Shark Guard splitter but it's rarely used. I can stand a nickel on it and start and stop the saw with it staying upright unless the wind fin the blade hits it. I feel zero vibration using it. The stock splitter and blade guard is on the saw for every cut that can be done with it. I do not find it gets in the way. So, were the upgrades worth it on an older saw like mine? From a financial standpoint probably not. But to me it was worth it as i enjoy rebuilding stuff anyway. And I likely would've spent more on a new saw that isn't as smooth or has a cast iron table.

[@worstworkshop]

Beast of a saw, it sounds like. Question for you. I've been trying to figure this out. Do the stock blade guard and splitter attach to the table, or somewhere else? From what I gather, it's probably that or the frame, but not the motor carriage

[@CharlesHooper2001]

Great video with a lot of very good information about making old table saws not only usable, but also safer to use. A few additions to the very good information in your video: * A digital angle gauge, such as the Klein Tools 935DAG for roughly $30, may be helpful for verifying that the 45 degree and 90 degree blade tilt stops are set correctly on the table saw. These types of angle gauges are also helpful when setting the blade angle to other angles, verifying that jointer fences are set to 90 degrees, and the positive stop for blade angle on a radial arm saw are set at the correct location. * For people with right-tilting Delta / Rockwell Unisaws and some older Delta contractor saws (such as the Model 10 from the 1980s), the Delta popup splitter (34-868 Bracket and Splitter Assembly) is good for helping to prevent kickbacks, and may be quickly pushed below the table surface when cutting dados or other non-through cuts. I bought one from Amazon in April 2023 for $55, but Amazon currently has the part priced at $136. * If possible, install a good quality blade guard on the saw, even if that good quality blade guard costs several times what the used table saw cost to acquire. I have bought two Shark Guard ARK package blade guards for my saws - those are currently selling for just over $400 each, but may be less expensive for other saws. I am able to remove or install the guards in less than a minute without tools, and also just as quickly remove or install the splitter. * When buying a link belt for your table saw, avoid the cheap Chinese made link belts (read the reviews of those link belts to understand why), and instead buy higher quality Fenner Drive or similar link belts. * For belt driven saws, make certain that the arbor pulley is correctly aligned with the motor pully. For contractors style saws, make certain that the belt is long enough so that the weight of the motor is able to keep the belt properly tensioned. * As another commentor mentioned, the JessEm 04301 Clear-Cut TS Stock Guides, while quite expensive, help to reduce the risk of kickback. This kickback avoidance is especially important for right-tilt table saws when the saw is set at an angle other than 90 degrees, making it easy for the board to be trapped between the blade and rip fence if it is not held firmly to the table. I have also found that the saw cut quality (fewer burn marks and fewer blade marks) may improve when the guides are used during a rip cut.

[@worstworkshop]

That's a lot of really great information. Thank you!

[@MJLWoodWorks]

I agree, the answer is "Yes". I've owned a few Table saws in my days and they have warrant if they can either be used for parts or can be restored. Some larger direct drive saws are great and have the same or better features than the old belt driven ones however, those cheap one piece direct drive, fully assembled out of the box versions are trash. Thanks for the great video!

[@worstworkshop]

Thanks! Totally agree

[@scottreynoldswoodworking]

Well done! Im not currently looking for an older saw. I still very much appreciate the entertainment and education provided. Thanks!

[@worstworkshop]

Yeah. The other day I told my wife, "I think I've made the definitive guide to a thing nobody cares about."

[@scottreynoldswoodworking]

@worstworkshop I think some people care, and it is needed! We throw away too many things and waste too much these days.

[@thomassciurba5323]

I have a 113 Craftsman I bought used for $75 around 1988. I have upgraded the fence, the miter gauge, enclosed the bottom, replaced the switch with a safety paddle switch, and keep an eye on the adjustments. Would I love a nice $2000 cabinet saw? You bet. But there are other things I want more and it works fine.

[@worstworkshop]

I'm right where you are with ALL that

[@zenkenshokunin]

At some point, a "sawstop" type gizmo will be made that can be retrofitted into many of these old cast irons. Keep your old saws! I believe the same will happen with automobiles, planes, etc. At some point, a better/superior form of propulsion will be made that can be retrofitted into many of those old cars. Keep your '57 Chevvies too!

[@MultiMeschi]

Certainly not. Not economic at all.

[@zenkenshokunin]

@@MultiMeschi Well, who knows what the future will bring but, if it follows the cell phone time line, it's possible - maybe even probable. Back in the day, you only had a "car phone" or some kind of hand brick and they were prohibitively expensive but, over time, they've come a long way. For cars, etc, there's a LOT of deep money that doesn't want to see any new tech but table saws? Saw Stop ain't THAT powerful!

[@MakerBoyOldBoy]

I have a humidity issue and rust on the table surface. I found the only solution was to completely clean the metal and uniformly apply a thin coat of epoxy resin thinned a little with acetone. No problem since.

[@worstworkshop]

That's a brilliant solution

[@kennethwallace5168]

I use HTC tool covers...end of problem.

[@johnafagerquist8235]

Thank you for, at least, giving a cameo to the Craftsman 'cable drive' saw. I got one for $75. USD, from my neighbor, and have had a heck of a time finding any information on it. The trouble I have, is the blade wobbles a little. It's either a bent arbor, or the face the blade sits against needs some milling. I have a solution, which I haven't gotten to yet, so I think I'll keep it. It's done whatever I've asked of it, so far.

[@worstworkshop]

That's great. I've never used one, but have seen them for sale and done some reading on them. If you need to replace that arbor, here's a tip for you. You can probably find a used saw for less than you'd pay for a replacement. Mine was bent too, and that's what I did.

[@kennethwallace5168]

I run a craftsman 80's 113 saw. It has less than 1/1000 arbor run out. My saw is accurate because I keep it that way. If you derust them, lubricate them, they are great saws. The fence is fine too. Just adjust it and place a fence board that you tweak straight and square with masking tape as a shim! Now the real secret...keep it covered with HTC tool covers to keep it from rusting!!!!!btw...the splitter is on the blade guard that you can use for 99% of your cuts.

[@worstworkshop]

I bet it purrs!

[@woodrowsmith3400]

I have owned and operated many pieces of old iron...table saws included. I have a great deal of respect for the Sears 113. saws...except for the fence. Emerson Electric (the contractor who manufactured saws for Sears under the Craftsman name) could not make an accurate fence to save their soul. So I either installed aftermarket fences or built my own. All of my homemade fences were miles ahead of stock Sears. About four years ago I was fortunate enough to find a Delta/Rockwell 10" contractor's saw with solid cast iron wings, much like the Unisaw was equipped with. It is from 1968 (+/- a year) and is equipped with a JetLock fence. This is Delta's revered twin tube design that they used from the '30's until the late '70's. Rock solid. Accurate. Easily tuned. Love it...and the saw it's hooked to. Riving knife? Ehhh...no. Dust collection? Ehhh...no. 50" rip? Nope. Just an old-fashioned cast iron gem that is my 'forever' saw. It came with a dual-voltage aftermarket (Dayton) 2hp motor that I currently run at 120v, but one day...when I get rambunctious...will run a dedicated 240v circuit for and operate in the smooth zone. I do have one...one...direct drive saw. I use it...with a 10" tuning plate from HFT and 10" psa discs as my dedicated disc sander. Works ok for that, but generally I look down my nose at direct drive saws. Generally agreed with your 'kick in the butt' ratings. Nothing I hate more than tuning a saw, especially one who's blade is not true to the miter slot. I have...now...all the trick tools but it's still a big pain in my back...side. However, once tuned...with a true blade and a square (I tune fences to have a .003" tail away from the blade) fence, they run like a dream. Safety is always a concern, although with the younger generation spending so much time with mobile devices, most wouldn't survive crossing a street. I have to panic brake at least once a week. That said...stop to think about what you are doing. Plan your cuts. Run through the process mentally. If you are making repetitive cuts, like in batch jobs or small production runs, take a break now and then. More folk get hurt by distractions, which include 'zoning out' during repeat cuts. If, while mentally planning out a cut, it just doesn't feel right, don't do it! Find another way. Toss a sheet of foam insulation on the floor to cut sheet goods. Consider a miter saw or radial arm saw (for us crusty veterans who still use one). Track saw...guide clamps...homemade saw guides...anything that is comfortable for you...AND safe to do...is better than trying a sketchy feeling cut on a table saw. All that said...the table saw is the #1 tool in my shop. Use it almost every day. Still have all my fingers.

[@worstworkshop]

Sounds like a great saw. Another thing people don't talk about is that there's rarely any real need to put your hand out to the point the it passes the beginning of the blade. That one thing alone could save a lot of fingers.

[@sgath92]

Another thing to consider: Some of the really old saws out there have neat aesthetics. Deco or jet-age designs, big solid construction that would survive a nuclear bomb or two, etc. Sure, how a saw looks might not be the best criteria for picking a tool but, sometimes antiques & vintage pieces have their own charm to them and being able to say "not only does it look cool, but its still usable" can be fun.

[@worstworkshop]

I know the ones you're talking about. I took one apart that looked like it could have been on The Jetsons.

[@BlueTurtleStudios]

I think it was an interesting video and very relatable as most of us have started on these saws! Good Job!

[@worstworkshop]

Thanks Barry!

[@fngrusty42]

I'm 70 years old and a craftsman since 1976 it was 15 years old when I got it. I built so many cabinets with it staircases . Took it to the job and still have it today. The same motor fixed everything on it 2 or 3 times but great saw. If I was running a cabinet shop, I would have gotten a different one. But mainly for the type of top on it. But as a carpenter, this was great. It ain't purity but sure cuts straight. Only an idiot that didn't build for a living would need anything else. Ps still got all my fingers.

[@worstworkshop]

That's incredible. It's bet it's a well-tuned machine too

[@DavidFoster-gz8bc]

I have a old craft man and it has been well used and never has been a problem other than it is small and not really powerful still it has done a lot of work and I can go use it right now for days and it will keep going. Granted it has few safety features but ,be careful I'm 55 and still have all my fingers and toes,just hope I have not just jinxed myself because I have a lot of work a head of me yet this year. Lol

[@zenkenshokunin]

I firmly believe that a sawstop style gizmo will be invented that can retrofit into these old cast irons. At least, I HOPE SO because I have a PRISTINE Craftsman table saw made in 1950 (not 1950's but "1950"). It's in the background of some of my videos but not fully set up yet (been in my shop about 3 months - still "moving in"). Also, I work about 85% hand tools so it's on the back burner. But once that gizmo comes to market? game changer.

[@worstworkshop]

I fully agree. The question is not if, but when

[@worstworkshop]

Even the one I hated just would not die. Can't fault the motors. That's for sure.

[@gregbenwell6173]

I bought THREE old used table saws BEFORE I finally gave up, and bought a brand new Ryobi contractors saw!! Due to storage issues (my shop space is only 8 feet by 8 feet) I can't own a large saw!! And every one of those old saws had issues, between missing parts I couldn't get to bent and broken parts that made them dangerous to run!! In the end I love my new saw and don't know how I lived without it for so long!!!!!!!!!!!

[@worstworkshop]

You're right. They do generally have issues. I bought a couple and cobbled them together.

[@Erik_The_Viking]

I have an old Ryobi BT3000 (1992) from my dad. It needed some serious maintenance, and I got it up and working great after 3 weeks of work. There are some great old table saws out there, but some are total junk because it's not worth the effort to fix them up. When my saw goes, I'm buying a new one (NOT a SS either) - not worth the effort, time and $$$ for me.

[@worstworkshop]

From what I know of that saw, it's a pretty good one. I'm partial to Craftsman, just because there are so many of them. It's easy to find broken ones for almost nothing and salvage them for repair parts.

[@Erik_The_Viking]

@@worstworkshop Yeah it's an excellent saw, no major complaints at least. You're right that it's worth more in spare parts! There's a lot of Craftsman versions because they did a large OEM deal.

[@Dancing_Alone_wRentals]

I have more saws than I can count. I prefer the older saws......however...I like the idea of those switches you added.... ......even if they were made by some grandmother and are pieces of China, still....I like an easy to bump off switch. tHanks for the video

[@worstworkshop]

You're right. They're imports. But I don't think we know how to make stuff like that in the U.S. anymore

[@fisharmor]

I think about replacing my Craftsman 113 periodically but then I remember it continues to do every single thing I need it to do. The thing I appreciate about it is, I have a small shop and I don't want both extension wings. Repurposing an old 113 was the only way I could get a high power saw (throw a 3hp HF compressor motor on it and it screams) with a small footprint. I literally can't find that in a new saw. I don't need to process sheet on it - I have sawhorses and foam for that, and if I need to do a lot, I'll get a panel saw that will live against the wall and not take up literally half the shop. Also if you put a sled on it, it seems like kickback becomes a non-issue and it won't need a splitter. I do wish I could get an aftermarket fence that didn't take up 16" with its clamp and still worked... and ideally one that doesn't cost 4x what I spent on the saw.

[@worstworkshop]

They're expensive, right? Vevor has one that looks interesting, but apparently they're discontinuing it. You might look into that one before they're gone. Not many reviews on it though

[@startmaking1]

Another really interesting video bud. Thank you.

[@worstworkshop]

Thanks!

[@cbauer72]

That tablesaw looks suspiciously like my old Craftsman 315.228310. Or at least close enough that they're cousins. I've already done some of what you said and planned on doing more. Can't wait to see the next video.

[@worstworkshop]

It's actually two saw Frankensteined together. One was great, but needed an arbor, a motor mount, and an angle adjustment knob. The other wasn't great, but had all those things. That's the short version of why I have so many old Craftsman saws

[@MCsCreations]

Awesome work, dude! It turned out amazing! 😃 But I definitely agree. It all depends on a lot of things. But a working tool is still a tool. 😉 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@worstworkshop]

Thanks! It's getting better the more I work on it.

[@tonycosta3302]

I upgraded my 1950s Craftsman table saw and love it.

[@worstworkshop]

They can be really great with just a little work!

[@AWoodworkersJourney]

Just wondering why you used a piece of hardwood for your riving knife instead of a piece of metal.

[@worstworkshop]

Good question. Steel would be better, but it would take soooo much longer to make. I could take an old table saw blade and cut it out with a grinder, then refine the shape, but I'd still have to remove just a little thickness by sanding. Then I'd bring a dull edge to the front, mix some epoxy, and put it in place. I'd also have to check along the way that it wouldn't interfere with the blade, as that could be disastrous. The wood I used is very hard though. I couldn't break it off with finger pressure, and the force of kickback at that point on the saw isn't nearly enough to break it. It's still easy to shape and sand, and if the blade ever hits it, no big deal. It's really a question of meeting tolerance vs. total overkill. I've really been enjoying your videos!

[@ColvinAvianBreadline]

As someone who hates throwing things away.... I appreciate this video!!

[@worstworkshop]

If you even saw the miniscule scraps I keep...

[@ColvinAvianBreadline]

@@worstworkshop probably looks like my shop!

[@temjiu9915]

Allot of it depends on the saw. Good example: any powermatic 66 tablesaw is worth restoring. But I still have a 1950's Shopsmith from my grandfather that while being a cool machine, is just not worth restoring because they just can't do a good job at anything. I kept it in it's lathe setup for a few years before I bought a real lathe and stored the shopsmith. Plus, any saw that costs more then 400 or so overall isn't worth it unless it's one of those big stand saws like the Powermatic, because these days you can get an amazing worksite saw for around that price with all the new tricks and tools.

[@worstworkshop]

I totally agree. Shopsmiths are interesting, but fall short of most of our safety standards

[@seymourwrasse3321]

it's a poor craftsman that blames their tools

[@wafflezoot]

Old delta Unisaws (and their clones) are awesome.. any other old tablesaw (that I have used) is junk.

[@worstworkshop]

I've never used a Unisaw, but I know people love them!

[@Dancing_Alone_wRentals]

When I turn my saw on I can record a video over the silence of the spinning blade.....Okay, okay..it isn't silent but wow is it quality. Long live Deltas

[@rogerdodds2765]

I use my Dads Delta contractors saw that he bought new in 1985. It’s great. It d ones need a riving knife and dust collection, but other than that it works great!

[@worstworkshop]

That's pretty much the deal. The Deltas from that time have a great reputation though

[@CharlesHooper2001]

If you have a Delta Model 10 contractor's saw, take a look at buying the Delta Popup Splitter (34-868 Bracket and Splitter Assembly). In April 2023 I bought one of these from Amazon for $55 to install on my late 1980s / early 1990s Delta Unisaw (Amazon is currently selling it for $136). The popup splitter worked very well on that saw. I then paid close to $400 for a Shark Guard ARK package blade guard for that Unisaw to add a bit more safety, and removed the popup splitter. The Delta popup splitter also worked on a 1982 Unisaw(I later bought a Shark Guard blade guard for it). After watching this video, I installed the Delta popup splitter on my mid-1980s Delta Model 10 contractor saw, reusing the bolts that once held the blade guard in place (that blade guard was missing when I bought the saw in 1991 - the bolts have a 7/16" head). I do not have dust collection hooked up to the contractor saw, but in the 1990s I built a tight-fitting drawer that sits on the shelf that fits directly below the saw - most of the saw dust ends up in that drawer. If you are planning to use link belts with your table saw, be certain to buy good quality link belts, such as those manufactured by Fenner Drive, not the cheap Chinese manufactured link belts that are scattered across Amazon. I have had one on my contractor's saw since the early 2000s, and also installed that brand of link belts on the two Unisaws.

[@rogerdodds2765]

@@CharlesHooper2001 thanks for the info!

[@marknielsen2482]

It's hard to beat an old craftsman table saw

[@worstworkshop]

At least without spending thousands of dollars!

[@zenkenshokunin]

1:31 in - you can DEFINITELY get better results than that! The secret is "wet-sanding". I bought an old 1950's cabinet saw for ...$40 bucks! This was around Nov. of 2023 in central California. It was COVERED in rust. You can see the result of wet-sanding on it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZTNmX-YfLuKaKc

[@worstworkshop]

I could, but these grooves are deep enough to put a fingernail in. If I removed enough material to get to the bottom of them, the top wouldn't be flat any more. It could be resurfaced, but not worth the investment for me. Yours looks great!

[@scottfoster2487]

Old saws are fine,it all depends on what your doing . Not every one wants these modern chinesium dispsosal saws.

[@worstworkshop]

I completely agree!

[@lw8882]

Starting to learn about table saws so this is perfect timing.

[@worstworkshop]

That's great. They seem like simple machines, but there's a lot of nuance

[@jimp5024]

I had a Sears Contractor saw and wrestled with all of these issues for many years. Eventually, I decided junk is junk and bought a Sawstop.

[@worstworkshop]

Like I said, it's not for everybody. And not all the old saws are the same. Someday I hope to join the SS club too!

[@seymourwrasse3321]

the biggest problem with table saws is idiots buying the cheapest piece o f crap and expecting it to perform miracles

[@coolabahwoodworking]

I had to punch another hole in my belt 😂 great video man

[@worstworkshop]

Thanks Tom!

[@coolabahwoodworking]

@@worstworkshop I even gotten a couple of ideas for my new saw 💪🏽

[@FearsomeWarrior]

Craftsman 113.x I got new when I was 12 years old. Got a Hegner scroll saw when I was 10 and progressed. The only thing I dislike on the table saw is the max cut width is very poor at 22 inches. And riving knife… and the motor moves in the back and is dumb and wide open for dust collection frustration…. Oh and it has garbage flexible legs that make the factory casters the most stupid BS.

[@worstworkshop]

Ha! I hear you, but it still beats a lot of the plastic stuff you can buy today. Yes, there are better saws, but when you consider the fact that you can get one for $50 on FB marketplace? They're a steal if you're willing to put in some work

[@FearsomeWarrior]

@@worstworkshop Working towards SawStop for years. I got a decent 2hp cyclone dust collector last year to get ready for it. Might take another two years to afford. To me, worth it. I considered others but I've always been scared of losing a finger. Anytime the blade is sticking up all the way and tilted is a scary cut. I've seen things working a shop professionally.

[@monteglover4133]

I was giving an older cast iron Craftsman table saw it was badly rusted and neglected, the fence was trash no miter gauge. All said.and done I’ll have less than $400 tied up in it, I’ll match it against any $1000 saw I still have to replace the arbor pulley and loosen the rusted arbor nut.

[@1pcfred]

I have $50.25 wrapped up into my Craftsman table saw and it works for me. I wouldn't be any better a woodworker with any other saw.

[@worstworkshop]

I have four miter gauges now. They just hang on the wall. Did you replace your fence?

[@worstworkshop]

@1pcfred That's the right attitude!

[@monteglover4133]

@@worstworkshop the new fence is ordered, a Delta T-Square type they are extremely accurate

[@worstworkshop]

Those are great!​@@monteglover4133

[@rizzidepizzi]

I still think everyone should steer clear of saws without a riving knife, There's a good reason why they became mandatory and unless you're a master fabricator and can build a contraption that moves with the blade en protect your face and hands at all times, you shouldn't mess with these type of saws. I get the charme of "they don't make like they used to", but not regarding safety. The above is my opinion and I learned the hard way. I got 5 stitches in my chin to prove it and I was increadibly lucky that it hit my chin instead of my throat, nose, eyes etc. I won't take risks anymore and rather spend more for safety..

[@worstworkshop]

I hear you. Have you ever worked with a splitter though? Functionally they do the same thing, unless the board leaves the table. And if it does, you're probably in trouble anyway

[@rizzidepizzi]

@@worstworkshop Agreed, a splitter is a safer way to operate these saws. Honestly, I never worked with a splitter, though.The big advantages of a riving knife are the constant distance to the blade and the height. And if you still want to pursue the spitter way, I'd make one out of metal. If a piece of wood has serious tension in it so that it binds the blade, your splitter is also in danger of breaking, especially if the splitter has some distance to the blade due to a lower height setting of the blade.

[@worstworkshop]

I always use insanely hard woods, like the Bocote I used in this video. I'd argue it's potentially more effective than many metals because it won't flex. Fortunately, I have a big supply of tiny scraps from exotics, and tons of Osage Orange and Mesquite. It doesn't get much harder than that!

[@cabman86]

I put the belt on upside down and backwards once. Still worked though.

[@worstworkshop]

As long as you have a sharp blade spinning, it's gonna work

[@cabman86]

@@worstworkshop That's what it takes. I want to buy a blade sharpener soon. I have 20 or so stacked on a shelf that are so dull.

[@ponyboyc]

I did all this to a 113 used it for a few years saved up and sold it to make up the difference and got a new delta version of the same saw. Don't need a sawstop haha dot touch the blade.

[@worstworkshop]

I love that one they sell for $700 at Lowes!

[@ponyboyc]

@worstworkshop I got it when it was only 550. That price now is robbery. But slowly your seeing them on the 2nd hand market

[@WilliamWhitehead-q5o]

😂You can get a switch that will turn on an accessory ,vacuum, when you turn on the saw in this case or any thing else

[@worstworkshop]

Yep! I have one for my primary dust collection system. They don't work here though, because the table saw is running at 240v and the shop vac is running at 120v. There are switches that can sense power draw through a wire without it being plugged in, but they're tricky.

[@dougdavidson175]

Thanks. Waiting, finger poised on the button...

[@worstworkshop]

Hopefully in just a couple weeks

[@bobbg9041]

100% of the cast iron table top, can be made like New no rust spots. But it has to go to a machine shop on a Blanche grinder. The cast iron one can be saved, but is it worth it? First off its american made cast iron not aluminum, i never understood the aluminum top saws Parts do not slid on the freely that means they are not safe.

[@worstworkshop]

Yep. I've worked with both. I know I could have that to resurfaced, but it's not worth the expense

[@jimrosson6702]

Great video

[@worstworkshop]

Thanks!

[@BustedKnuckleWoodworks]

Ok, I scoured through the comments and since nobody has said it yet, I will go first - “Just buy a SawStop!” (Wouldn’t be a legit KZbin table saw video without throwing that in here)

[@worstworkshop]

You know how it works. The longer the video sits out there, the more of those I'll get

[@chrisdavis8220]

You most likely have a perfectly good kidney you could sell to help pay for the new SawStop….

[@mikehodges6598]

@@worstworkshop That was actually the solution I ended up doing. I had a very sad Porter&Cable jobsite saw from Lowe's that I was trying to rip 2" thick oak planks with. It bogged down so much it wanted to kick back, it just couldn't. I still have the other saw, it's just used in a job site role. I did tune and line everything up.

[@worstworkshop]

@@chrisdavis8220 😂😂😂

[@worstworkshop]

@@mikehodges6598 I want to get one someday. By the end of the next video, this saw will be really solid, but I'd be happy to upgrade at some point.

[@morganlutton1434]

I have a craftsman table saw older 12 inch 220 electric got from a friend the motor no good can you give meet me any help

[@worstworkshop]

I'm not entirely sure I understand your question. You need to find a new motor?

[@joshgay2385]

And I stand by my comment on the other site.... ;)

[@worstworkshop]

I hope you didn't mind me using that! I thought a lot about that comment

[@marksminis]

I’m in the MELT IT DOWN camp. 😅 Great video David! 👍

[@worstworkshop]

You just want to see the world burn, don't you, Mark?

[@kennethwallace5168]

Todays saws are throw away saws...an old Craftsman or Delta is forever.

[@worstworkshop]

The parts that haven't survived from the old saws are the plastic parts, like the switches and blade guards. I realize newer plastics are better, but the new saws have a LOT of plastic. It will also be interesting to see how well Sawstop technology holds up over the decades.

[@brushbros]

If you apply just a few drops of any vegetable oil to that brilliant beard you will be 35% handsomer. Put a few drops on finger tips and massage into it. Follow with a brush or comb. If you want to "train" your beard, get it wet and shape; dry on low heat and Bob's yer uncle.

[@worstworkshop]

Are you sure the world is ready for that?

[@martybrown358]

Good video. "Outlandish claim" is right..sounds like a dork who has it assbackwards about what should be melted down. I`ve been buying restoring machines for years, almost every week , and can`t recall ever seeing a riving knife..and rarely a blade guard..guess I better cross my fingers while I have them.

[@worstworkshop]

Ha! That's really cool though. Are you fixing them up and reselling them?

[@martybrown358]

@@worstworkshop Hi,and first let me say I like your videos. I live in a very rural part of Arkansas,far from any large towns, so it`s not ideal for selling restored machines. I keep such ones as Delta, Atlas, Walker Turner etc. Most Craftsman machines get parted out...well not all. . I`ve got way too many Bandsaws, Drill presses, table saws, lathes, you name it....but that`s all second fiddle to Hand saws, planes, and bit braces. There`s a lot of other vintage stuff too, ..I spread myself thin.

[@worstworkshop]

@@martybrown358 I'm glad you like my videos. That's a great hobby you have!

[@kcarson4275]

NCC-1701

[@worstworkshop]

Ha! Someone suggested that, but I can't remember who

[@kcarson4275]

Well, it jumped out at me. I do like Star Trek after all. Besides that, I have an old Craftsman with the same top and fence as the one you put the 0 clearance insert in. Glad to see you're showing how you "modernized" it. I was given mine by my father-in-law who I still think is trying to kill me. But, after your video, I'm re-energized to revamp mine. Thanks...I guess?

[@albatros1752]

The amercan ones are,

[@bobbg9041]

My dad back in the 60s made boats On a early 1960s sears craftsmen table saw like yours. I think my older brother took it when he passed away at 83 years old. My first saw was a Grizzly 1023 3hp 240 saw i bought in 2001 its never been plugged in second saw was a porter cable job type saw, Then my kid won the Jet and gave it to me. The jet is a 120 volt version on a fold up stand. You can not cut sheets of plywood on it it rolls away. Plastic pile of shit.

[@worstworkshop]

You've seen a few saws!

[@gothscorpion2542]

Straight up, I would rather have a 20 year old table saw, even a cheap one, rather than the new crap being sold today. Newer stuff are made cheap and made to fail, Force/designed obsolescence. And Sawstop are nothing more than a rip off, just another subscription service, if you are that scared of get hurt or a table saw then maybe this hobby isn't for you, for your and others around you safety, sry but truth hurts sometimes.

[@1pcfred]

I get that a table saw can slice fingers off in a fraction of a second. That's why I never get close to the blade when it is spinning. I have a whole collection of push sticks and push blocks to use with my saw. I use them too.

[@worstworkshop]

Honest, I think you're better off with a 40+yo saw than a 20yo old.

[@1pcfred]

@@worstworkshop they make good machines today. But they're going to cost a lot. You can spend 5 figures for a table saw. It'll be a nice one. That's what the high end sliding table saws cost. I'm sure Unisaw is still making good machines today. You can get one of those for $4,284.51 I bet Powermatic would get the job done too.

[@joshjish876]

So much bad information in this video and in the comments...just spend a tiny bit more and buy something like a ryobi or rigid saw to get started and then if you need to upgrade to a real cabinet saw...yes these "fixes" can work but just make bo sense...yes belt drive is better than direct drive but when it's hanging in open air thats a big no...just buy a proper entry level saw instead of marketplace junk....these old saws had a time and place but its come and gone guys...be safe out there

[@worstworkshop]

Thanks for sharing your opinion!

[@zenkenshokunin]

@@worstworkshop Looks like you found the 13 year old troll playing pretend 🤣🤣🤣

[@tylerp5199]

It really depends. People still buy the old school Unisaws. I wouldn’t pass up a general. If you have an Inca and are considering melting it down, I will gladly take it off your hands.

[@worstworkshop]

I'd love any of those!