Are Public Chargers REALLY THAT UNRELIABLE?

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[@berthogendoorn2133]

Thanks Kris, what a great topic, love it!!! We here in Canada are out in the cold when it comes to fast DC CCS charging!

[@KrisRifa]

Thanks mate! That's too bad! But what I hope people also see here is that it is possible to have a great working EV infrastructure with good capacity. It just takes time and needs to be invested in.

[@stephenwensley]

I wouldn’t say the UK is ten years behind Norway, probably closer to 3-4 based on Bjorn’s videos I was watching in 2019. We have a number of hubs now and more are rolling out all the time. There are 1 million EVs on UK roads (30 million cars in total) and 37k chargers, mostly still 50kW though. So a ratio of 27 cars to every charger. Or 1800 people in the UK to every charger. Motorway routes is still the barrier, historical contract & power supply reasons mean most service stations only have one or two 50kW chargers. My local one had 3 50kW a year ago, which remain with 12 350kW chargers added in February, and 12 Tesla superchargers were added late this year. 2 years ago there were a couple ccs/ChaDAMo hubs, and now there are probably a couple hundred CCS hubs in the UK. The challenge recently was really just a higher volume of holiday traffic by all those people who bought a Tesla for some reason.

[@KrisRifa]

When I make videos most people from the UK complain about how far behind Norway the UK is and how few chargers and charging stations there are, so it is nice to hear another perspective. But I have to say that your numbers seem to be a little high... According to this article: www.zap-map.com/statistics/ There a about 4500 Rapid chargers (25-99kW as defined in the article) and around 2200 Ultra rapid (100kW+ as defined in the article). Out of those 37k chargers only a very small numbers are DC chargers. There doesn't seem to be any agreed upon definition on what fast, rapid, ultra rapid or lightning chargers mean, and in Norway we differentiate DC chargers into 50-149kW and 150kW+, we have 1786 50-149kW chargers and 3255 150kW chargers, for a total of 5041. If you include all Tesla Superchargers (1500) we have a total of 6571 50kW + chargers. The same number in the UK is 7350 (650 Tesla Supercahrgers) (Norway) 575 000 EVs divided by 6571 = 87 EVs per charger (UK) 631 000 EVs divided by 7350 = 87 EVs per charger Source for UK EVs www.zap-map.com/ev-market-statistics/ This is very interesting, because according to these numbers Norway and the UK have exactly the sam numbers of EVs per charger. And if this is the case how come son many people in the UK are complaining about poor EV infrastructure? Furthermore you have a higher charger density 1 charger per 33 square km and Norway 1 charger per 59 square km.

[@stephenwensley]

@@KrisRifa third attempt to replay, I’ll put the link in separately. I used the same Zap map stats from their newsletter last week, but didn’t split out DC, and included PHEVs as they are increasingly blocking chargers with the newest ones having early Zoe/Leaf sized batteries and CCS connectors! Unreliability I put down to legacy networks failing to support & maintain their aging hardware. In the know EV drivers only use the newer operators who are deploying hubs of 4-40 ultra high power chargers, mainly 350kW but also kempower on motorway routes.

[@RobertHanna]

Great video, Kris. The charging infrastructure is terrible here in the US.

[@KrisRifa]

Thanks mate! Hopefully it gets better in the coming years 😊

[@johngalt5411]

That's pretty fair. It seems the Charge America infrastructure funding did not have a stipulation that the chargers actually be maintained & work; so that's exactly what we got.

[@KrisRifa]

@@johngalt5411 seems like a pretty short sited plan! 😬 I know how hard doing any taxes are in the US, but a good way to fund EV infrastructure expansion and maintenance would be a tax in gas. It may be unpopular but it would in practice be an investment in the future 😅

[@TassieEV]

Thank you Kris, this is amazing. Although Bjorn has shown Tritium chargers are NOT that reliable at all. Ionity uses them alot and many are broken. The future though. Kempower chargers have just arrived in Tasmania Australia and I have tried one, love the QR code to monitor your charging remotely and gives me the speed and info my car(classic 28kWh Ioniq) doesn't give me.

[@andcharge]

Hi TassieEV1, take a look at our app, maybe it could help you :) Kris gives a brief introduction to the &Charge app here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fH7ZYp1pepiNb7c

[@hampuskallin3565]

Cool vid Kris. Going to drive to the Swedish mountains for some holidays next month and have decided to go with the e-tron 55 this year. plenty of chargers available in Sweden now from different operators and tesla SC free for all as backup👍🏻

[@andcharge]

Hi Hampus, take a look at our app, maybe it could help you :) Kris gives a brief introduction to the &Charge app here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fH7ZYp1pepiNb7c

[@arihy2]

That looks very good. How's the total power of each location compared to maximum power of actual chargers? Here in Finland some of the locations that have let's say 3x150kW CCS and 1x50kW CHAdeMO and total power of 200kW to split between them.

[@Vxvx22]

Why charging cost in Norway got so expensive in the last 1 year? It used to be dirt cheap like 2 years ago. The price shot up all because of the war in Ukraine?

[@KrisRifa]

Norways power grid used to be cut off from the rest of Europe, and thus demand being relatively low and prices cheap. Then one day some "smart" politicians came up with idea of connecting to European grid so we could sell electricity at a higher market price - all in the name of making more money. Then the war hit and sanctions where put on Russia, thus skyrocketing demand from Norwegian electricity, oil and gas. Rocket high demand means rocket high prices.

[@Vxvx22]

@@KrisRifa thanks for explaining. So why not disconnect the European grid and have low electricity prices in Norway again? Maybe just not a good move politically to not show solidarity with the rest of EU?

[@KrisRifa]

@@Vxvx22 The same reason we are selling oil and gas top Europe, we're making a shit load of money on it. In the short term it may be worse for the individual, just like with taxes on petrol, taxes on alcohol and taxes on cars. But in the long term we benefit as a society. This will generate more income that can go back into running society and investments, just like we do with oil and gas revenue.

[@boenill]

My experience is that the amount of electric cars increases so strongly that the charging capacity along the main roads starts to be blown up at weekends and departure days. So if it is not built out more quickly, and the trend with electric cars continues here in Norway, queues will eventually become a big problem.

[@KrisRifa]

Interesting observation! Let me know what roads and routes you've seen this and I can try to make a video on these roads.

[@Orbit353]

Close (500 m away) to the CK Alexander Kiellands plass station that you visited, Ragde Charging (rather new operator, subsidiary of Ragde eiendom), has a decent setup at Mølleparken. There are chargers for up to 240 kW, and up to nine concurrent cars. Far less congested than CK, thus my favorite location for "downtown" charging. With an Audi/BMW charge card (they accept several others as well), it also less than half the price of CK.

[@mikecarter2737]

Your testing method - "light is green, must be good" would have passed the EA BTC Power chargers in CO that failed for Kyle.

[@KrisRifa]

Yeah, I address this at the end of the video that I could've been more thorough and actually tested the chargers. But would it even be practical to make a video where I test every one of the 39 vacant charging points? 🤔 Maybe, not sure though. But to be fair, I have quite a bit of experience charging at not only these charging stations, but at these makes and models of chargers. And as Kyle kind of alluded to in his video is that when a charger fails it is most often the hardware or software of the actual charger that's the issue. In the past two year and half years I have covered close to 200 000km (120 000 miles) in EVs, and I have not once seen a Kempower charger nor an Alpitronic Hypercharger not working, so when I see it is green or the screen is showing a normal "ready" display I am pretty confident the charger works. I cannot be 100% sure without testing them, and that's why I say this exact thing at the end of the video 😊 The only chargers I've has normal issues with are those ABB chargers. I have had issues with them with different providers in Norway and also abroad, so I wasn't a bit surprised it didn't work the one of two we saw. Le me know if you have a good idea og testing the chargers without actually having to test 40 individual chargers. Lastly reliability has improved massively the past few years. Before you'd almost expect there to be an issues at a charging station, but nowadays that is almost always the exception to the rule. Those EA BTC Power chargers are some "home brewed" stuff we don't get over here and they seem to be very unreliable. So if I did the same "test" in the US I would use a different testing method 🙈😅

[@MrGeekGamer]

I was recently on a road trip to Poland via Sweden. Used only Recharge chargers in Sweden with no problems except for obnoxious Audi and Porsche drivers consuming two parking bays. In Poland it was very difficult to fast charge, mostly because of poorly made domestic apps. The one that I did get to work went out of order after a week and remains out of order a two weeks later.

[@KrisRifa]

"except for obnoxious Audi and Porsche drivers consuming two parking bays." Me owning three Audis and one Porsche in the past five years 🙈😂 In Norway, Sweden and Finland Recharge is dominent with like 4000 charging points. As I said, I could've easily made this video with only Recharge chargers 😅

[@ulfw]

It's beyond idiotic you need an app, any app at all to charge. Tap a credit card should be all that's needed. EU legislation can't come fast enough to mandate this app bullshit away

[@MrGeekGamer]

@@ulfw Part of the resistance is from the operators because they want to collect as much information about users as they can. Presumably the vehicle doesn't provide any unique identifier to allow them to track that way.

[@andcharge]

Hey MrGeekGamer, maybe our app is right for you. There you can rate the stations on your tour and give important feedback. Have a look at the video of Kris, there he introduces our app briefly :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/fH7ZYp1pepiNb7c

[@laatu1234]

Please check also how the charging is being billed. Time based billing is EXTREMELY expencive and people should stop using those robbery stations. Billing / kWh is the only way to go.

[@MrGeekGamer]

Thankfully p/kWh pricing appears to becoming to the norm, at least in Norway.

[@cbatiau2528]

just because "the screens are green" (e.g., 6:20) doesn't mean that they actually work, right? Kyle Conner actually goes to hook up to many different charging stations that look like they should work, but they don't start up (i.e., don't deliver charge to the car)...

[@jasonblair4057]

Very good to see a mature infrastructure. Out here in Canada this is more of a dream depending which of the kingdom’s you live in. Here in Ontario it’s an utter joke for CCS cars.

[@lucas7793]

I'm pretty sure the CHAdeMO on the first Delta charger was not broken. At these chargers one CHAdeMO and CCS share a DC power module, and if one car is charging on this module, the other one shows in the Kople App as "Out of order". The 50 kW chargers at Circle K Furuset were probably Mer chargers in the past. There are already too many chargers in Norway for a big fail. I'm only worried about the ABB chargers from Ishavsveien in the north. This can get a little bit tricky if they fail.

[@KrisRifa]

Yes, that makes sense! The Chademo was just not available because there was a charging on CCS with that module! Makes total sense! Great observation :)

[@ChuckJ1944]

You are so fortunate To have your infrastructure built out. I have to use my gas car to get from Fayetteville Arkansas to Fort Worth Texas.

[@Displays.1234.]

Try changing in the UK, half don't work, and there is a total lack of chargers, plus the chargeing price's are sky high.....

[@MrGeekGamer]

I am planning to visit east Manchester and it seems there are very few chargers in the area and the maximum is 50 kW. The UK is cheap compared to Norway. Last time I checked a few weeks ago it was 60p kWh, while in Norway it's been about 90p kWh for months.

[@andcharge]

We know this problem too and would like to do something about it. Take a look at our app, then you can help us solve the problem. Take a look at Kris' video, where he briefly introduces our app: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fH7ZYp1pepiNb7c

[@abraxastulammo9940]

7:40 Alpitronic I think they are rather reliable because thise guys did APU aircraft power modules before?

[@KrisRifa]

That may be the reason, and when I think about it I don't think I've ever seen an Alpitronic charger that was out of order!

[@borama7845]

Wow, didn‘t know that. That explains the high quality. The APU is the part of an aircraft that e.g. Sully switched on 30 seconds before he landed the commercial aircraft safely in the Hudson river. The APU kept systems running after the main engines got hit by birds. No failure allowed here.

[@matteoponzetto6682]

Nice, very interesting video. Can you do another video on a busy day to see the comparison?

[@KrisRifa]

Yes, I can!

[@777Outrigger]

In the US it's simple. The CCS charging situation stinks. At best 80% reliable, in the bitter cold, maybe 30%. On the other hand the Tesla supercharging network is wonderful with a 99% reliability at worse. .... EA has been promising for 2 yrs to fix their system and there's been no joy. The unreliable ABB systems they've started to rip out seemed to work best in the cold weather and the new ones bricked. Un believable! I ordered a Model Y in April and took delivery on 14 Dec. I couldn't be happier. Has been performing and charging great. Even in -15F, -26C, it's been doing great.

[@anthonyc8499]

Man, seeing this video plus Kyle's Taycans trip thru Germany just goes to show how crummy CCS infrastructure is in the USA. It makes no sense why America is so bad.

[@Joe-lb8qn]

Now contrast that with EV Man in the UK visiting the ten charging stations nearest him where IIRC 6 were inoperable. Hopefully this is improving but it encourages me to geta high range EV and most likely a Tesla even though not everything about the cars is right for me.I tell my friends when they ask me about which EV to get, if you will be doing lots of miles, just geta Tesla, dont even think about an alternative. AT least in the UK distances are not, relatively speaking so great that a high range EV cant cope with most journeys. As another UK posters write here, the motorway areas do need serious improvement and probably some kind of government action to force the electricity suppliers and motorway operators to get more power in.

[@berthogendoorn2133]

Ko Kris I am totally jealous, lets get with it Canada!!!

[@tommesob5099]

Germany needs to step up the Charging Game around the Autobahn. So many unreliable Chargers. Especially Ionity is a huge issue. In Switzerland im happy so far.

[@KrisRifa]

Interesting, I did two trips to and through Germany last year and did not have any issues with Ionity chargers except for in Switzerland 😅 Ionity uses Trinity chargers that are very reliable, but in Switzerland they use ABB because ABB is Swiss. So my experience is a little different than yours.

[@abraxastulammo9940]

What issue?

[@borama7845]

In Germany in the meantime I avoid Ionity network. On most stations there are only 4 outlets clogged by cars with subsidized charging plans. For my rare long trips I mostly use hubs from EnBW or Aral using reliable Alpitronics hardware.

[@Scrap-press]

@@borama7845 and i only go to Ionity because it's cheaper than anything else I have. 27 cents is unbeatable

[@stayrelaxed9410]

You did not look at the Tesla SC

[@KrisRifa]

Geez, did you even watch the first 60 seconds? 😅🙈🙈🙈

[@nancybee250]

I am a senior female in the US. Just bought my first EV and was shocked how bad the non Tesla charging stations are. Half are usually broken or touch screens dont work. I live in a rural area and can't always get cell service to use an app. And covered charging stations? Never seen that here.Getting out in a rainstorm to start a charge is annoying! I would never patronize a gas station that wasn't covered...

[@Vxvx22]

Get a Tesla, or get a Toyota Hybrid.

[@jp6975]

You're not alone. Non-Tesla charging in the UK is also very poor. I will go back to ICE in 2.5 years as I don't want a Tesla 3 or Y (the X and S are not available here but if they were I'd consider them... but ICE more likely)

[@Richard-tv5cb]

@KrisRifa, another great video! Just thought I'd add to your story. Here in Australia - M1 Main roadway/motorway serving the east coastline between Sydney and Brisbane - for the days before and after Christmas the Tesla charging banks had waiting times of up to 2hrs just access a charger?? I personally own a Polestar 2 so not sure how this will affect me. Australian Government is keen to encourage more EV on our roads but the charging infrastructure is sadly lacking. Luckily I have my own fast charger at home 🏡 Keep up the great work 👍 Happy New Year Kris!

[@GeoPoi86]

You should have at least try once, and show charging speeds. Alas ....