Are Russell Brand and Jordan Peterson Idolatrous Pseudo-Christians? : The Theology Pugcast Ep. 313

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The Theology Pugcast

Күн бұрын

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@abeeforallseasons Ай бұрын

So tired of Peterson.

@meganokimoto7881 Ай бұрын

Love how you all got your bloopers in simultaneously in the intros. 👌

@hansonr22 Ай бұрын

Love your guys show, keep up the good work. You probably should have Justin Brierley on sometime, he’s be doing great apologetic work for a while, I think he’d be a good guest.

@danie-v2o Ай бұрын

I must say I find your interpretation more than interesting. Although I will admit I was aware of the conclusion before it was reached. You have almost prophetically learned how to speak in tongues, much like Peterson, who has made a career out of it. Who could believe that Augustine’s critique of libido dominandi, the lust for domination, would ever endorse figures like Trump or Peterson, marching in lockstep with Christian nationalism? Augustine warned against power-driven faiths that bend Christianity into an ideological tool rather than a transformative truth. Yet, these figures wrap Christian language around their own agendas, obscuring the faith they claim to uphold. Peterson, for example, invokes Christian themes in his push against “moral decline” but treats Christianity as metaphor rather than the living reality of God incarnate. This symbolic approach disconnects faith from its central mystery: the Incarnation-God made flesh, affirming both the goodness of creation and our need for redemption. Such a framework eerily mirrors Gnosticism, a belief the early church condemned for splitting spirit from body and denying the material, lived dimension of faith. In practice, Peterson, Trump, and similar reactionaries offer a “spirituality” custom-built for consumer culture, one that invites comfort without sacrifice, order without transformation, and self-interest over humility or community. This stripped-down Christianity doesn’t challenge believers but subtly reinforces the consumerist mindset these figures claim to critique, turning faith into a product that soothes rather than convicts. In truth, Christianity’s call isn’t a return to an idealized past but a transformation of the present through a deeply embodied faith. By reducing Christ to a symbolic figure, they undermine the Incarnation’s radical message, offering a hollow shell of faith that ultimately mirrors the shallow culture they decry. But don’t get me wrong; I truly understand how much temptation there must be with these intellectuals coming to your doorstep. It must feel like a renaissance. Your book has become the endpoint of intellectual pursuit. Although it’s not your own interpretation that gets to be on the front page, at least I guess you hope to be able to codify it into law, as I understand you have interpreted Augustine’s libido dominandi to mean.

@taylordl28 Ай бұрын

You think Peterson "invites comfort without sacrifice, order without transformation, and self-interest over humility or community"? Not sure you have listened to him much if that's the case. And I have no idea why you would lump Trump in as some kind of "spiritual" leader.

@viktoria.p.777 Ай бұрын

@@taylordl28, well Peterson is very vague about his terms. We don't really know what he means by god, because when asked directly he comes with all this word salad about some inner voice and the logos as a symbol and all that Jungian gibberish. It's true that he likes to talk about sacrifice, but I have the feeling that by that he means the petty struggles of the lower classes and their material sorrows. This class should embrace their struggles as a sacrifice, but the upper classes deserve their privilege, although Peterson himself has admitted that hierarchies tend to become unjust and the establishment harsh. But critiquing unjust hierarchies for him is resentful and that is a Nietzschean approach and not a Christian one. If we presuppose that God himself is just and there is universal justice then critiquing injustice can't be resentment, but a duty. Nietzsche the philologue who liked to think about himself as a philosopher was sooooo obsessed with hierarchy and upholding the status quo, just like Peterson. In fact Nietzsche is the godfather of reactionary double speak. Aesthetic suffering and wealth for one group. And the flog and slogging for the other group. Some say that Nietzsche is contradictory, but he is not, if read as a reactionary. He actually wants one value system for the aristocracy and another for the peasants. Nietzsche was at least very honest that he despises universalism unlike mister Peterson who gives the most postmodern definitions about god, values and everything, although he doesn't like postmodernism and although he is a Jungian psychoanalysist. I don't like to judge if he is sincere with his faith, but something feels off and dishonest about him. He has shown some double standards and harsh criticism in one direction with the lack of applying the same criteria towards other groups. Good manipulators always say some true things and seem so very worried, but their proposed solutions always have wealth and privilege transfer towards themselves or an elite surrounding them. As the first commentator greatly explained Christianity should not be used for such practices.

@danie-v2o Ай бұрын

@@taylordl28 “comfort without sacrifice” means, Peterson is giving “the good news”, but without actually delivering the belief in that good news (Jesus actually being God). “Order without transformation, and self-interest over humility or community.” Means he talks about morals and values but they are there to make them successful and rises up the ladder of capitalism. However, these morals and values has these roots in the material not in the living god, and success isn’t in self sacrifice only for the sake of sacrificing the self to your community. And I’m lumping Trump in ironically as a spiritual leader, as he’s followers claims to be followers of Christ. And they see themselves working for God, with Trump as their shepherd. Unfortunately, he is leading them to slather, and he has wolfs like Peterson among them, who’s picking them off one by one.

@D1804-h5c Ай бұрын

If judeochristian values is at the roots of Western civilization success, what about Latin America and Africa? Is christianity not authentic enough to make the success if these places also?

@danie-v2o Ай бұрын

@@D1804-h5c is this a question to me? If so I don’t understand why?

@MoeGar-e6e Ай бұрын

I disagree about Christianity being about the past, and Conservative. Our Hope is in the Return King. Our faith is present to future. Christianity is nether Conservative or progressive. It transcend both. The Kingdom of Heaven ❤

@thomasprice6888 Ай бұрын

I think you missed the point of the episode. I was saying the exact same thing. But because it is future, it also includes the past and the present. And there are rich gifts from the past (in our sense) that are for the Church now because they are not merely past but are bound up with the fulfillment of all things in Christ, who is our future.

@ericstogner2222 Ай бұрын

@@thomasprice6888well said and I really liked their discussion and description of hqw history is a vast early warning system for the present and also how CS Lewis said people should read old books because the past is able to critique and offer solutions for the present - but only if we read it and pay attention to it. God and human nature doesn’t change and it is a massive folly that we see playing out. Opening this day where people are aruoid and arrogant enough to disregard the past and think they are now so modern and enlightened that the past has no bearing or use or truth that applies to today or the future. They are forgetting that the present and what little is left of the future is entirely built upon the foundation of the past. People suffering from this delusion (and it is becoming the overwhelming portion of ‘Christian’ and secular society today, I stress of building their faith practices today on the strong foundation of what was good and right and true from the past are instead building f their faith on a weak foundation of shifting sand. If they had eyes to see and real biblical wisdom they would see the biblical warning about a builder who builds in shifting sand and what happens to their theology ( and probably their security in salvation) by simply looking at what happened to Asheville, NC when the winds and the rains came. That is a great picture of what a great fall looks like when faith and a “Christian veneer” world view is built upon shifting sand

@premodernprejudices3027 Ай бұрын

They're both grifters. Peterson especially. The dude and his family are totally nuts.

@abeeforallseasons Ай бұрын

Absolutely.

@danie-v2o Ай бұрын

@@abeeforallseasons Yeah! but try explaining this to these christians. They refuse to belive they are being fold..

@jsong8282 Ай бұрын

Shortest podcast ever? Maybe but probably not, yes definitely.

@gerard4870 Ай бұрын

This episode is an assemblage of blather worthy of Jordan Peterson himself. If this is the way, it is a murky one.

@superledfrenzy Ай бұрын

Jordan Peterson absolutely is, not sure on Russell Brand

@ryleighloughty3307 Ай бұрын

Russell and Jordan are new to Christianity, and they are finding their way. Please encourage them and be kind.

@mickey_rose Ай бұрын

Justin Brierley does the podcast Premier unbelievable. He is great host for debates in the Christian world.

@FITSOZOLIFE Ай бұрын

so great he was silent on the plandemic

@gillianshaw9403 Ай бұрын

Quite agree! He's superb. His podcast with Sean McDowell was quit marvelous. Both were at their very best.

@cooperberkley9089 Ай бұрын

Reading the article, I just thought the writer took for granted an interesting discussion about whether some conservative figures, especially elites, wanted to use Christianity in some purely utilitarian effort to acheive a moral population which would function for their purposes, or whether some conservative converts were in danger of committing idolatry through catholic practices or maybe getting into ideas about an imminetized eschatology or full preterism. Instead, he chose something which read more like an ideological plea directed toward people who are already conservative, not to become conservative Christians, that Christianity was inherently incompatible with conservatism. Thankfully, this turned out to be a point which was thoroughly debunked throughout the podcast.

@Naomi_OB Ай бұрын

You may actually be more familiar w Brierley if you ever watched him as host of the Podcast/YT channel "Unbelievable." It hosted years of debates (more discussions than debates) w guests. Tons of athiests, as well as mainstream Evangelical intellectuals like William Lane Craig v James White (Molinism i think?) and Doug Wilson v Michael Brown (cessationism)

@Celticbavarian Ай бұрын

Interestingly, just this morning I was thinking how much I’d love to hear a “Moscow Mood” take on what is going on with, for example, Justin Brierly and others talking about the movement from atheism to theism among intellectuals of late. Thanks in advance. Looking forward to your thoughts.

@dlwilkinson Ай бұрын

Hi chaps. Like always thanks. Can you guys please give insight into the David Platt Documentary? I would appreciate your insight.

@BrianScarborough-wb7xn Ай бұрын

Brand and Peterson are new Christians. Can we give them some time to mature and grow? Do we have to judge whether or not they are "true Christians" right now?

@johnandrews1162 Ай бұрын

Justin Brierley is great

@ewencameron4269 Ай бұрын

lost all respect for JP when he came out for Trump who is a pathological liar and a danger to America and the world

@PanhandleFrank 18 күн бұрын

Two things can be true at once. E.g.: 1. Trump is not the Second Coming, and may not even be a Christian. 2. He was also a _far_ superior choice to Kamala Harris.