Let's Talk About Self Inserts

The gist of it is that I think often times we can get hung up on 'critiques' which are not really critiques. If we say something is a 'self-insert' what we are usually saying is that the character feels as if they are out of place and do not belong in their world. Also that they seem to have too many things in common with the writer and that they get special treatment in the story. Without these aspects, however, a self insert does not really indicate a bad character or bad writing. It's a net neutral, and just like anything else in writing it is a tool to be used if you choose to do so. However, it is a tool which should be wielded properly.
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[@heeman1203]

what many people have against mary sues is the same thing they have against self inserts. They often lack necessary character flaws because not all writers are introspective enough to point out their own character flaws.

[@jawz9455]

Would it be weird if I had a self-insert I treated like Subaru from Re:zero?

[@heeman1203]

@@jawz9455No. That just means you can be trusted with a self insert.

[@lionmom7629]

Yeah, but "character flaws" is kinda becoming another catch phrase, too, just like "self insert" and "Mary Sue" and is often misapplied and used in ways that are not consistent for the definition of the phrase. Not all characters are supposed to have flaws. "Paragon" characters (Superman, Dr. Who, etc) with flat character arcs can be fun and entertaining and not have character flaws. Character growth might happen to those around them, or even because of them, but the point of these aspirational characters is not to have flaws. So I'm not convinced that more character flaws make a character better in every story. Like everything else, its more nuanced than that.

[@vonnie0_0]

I’m too good at seeing my flaws.

[@lionmom7629]

@@vonnie0_0 Its hard to turn that keen power of introspection to seeing our own best aspects, for sure! Being introspective is a bit of a curse, in that way. I so completely get where you are coming from with that one, unfortunately!

[@Alecations]

Before I watch: No they are not. Self inserts should be approached the same way you approach yourself and your own writing: With self awareness. I have a self insert character who, instead of wish fufillment, I think is my best written character because it incorporates every tiny flaw and ideology of my personality. Every plot exposes a new flaw but also helps said character grow, with the end of their character arc being what I wish to be, while how they start is how flawed I am now. But even by the end they still have some flaws. If self inserts are born of insecurity, they will fail. If they are born of honesty, you will create a unique yet realistic character.

[@Ramsey276one]

Fully agree

[@elderfiend6295]

Very well said. I have a character I want to write that’s like that too, and I hope that I can make him feel human by realizing my own flaws, even if I can be kind of stubborn and don’t admit to them easily.

[@Alecations]

@@elderfiend6295 The coolest thing I discovered through writing was developing with my characters.

[@FrootDeMoN]

And not just incorporating their flaws, but their Passion as well!

[@rabbittiger]

Couldn't have worded it any better

[@xdskiller3509]

Well Dante's inferno is basically a bible fanfic with the author self insert and its an insanly influential book to this day. This speaks louder and better then any argument i could make.

[@Arthurskittenboywife]

also the first instance of " i drew you as the Soyjack and me as the chad" but you know, literature

[@xdskiller3509]

@@Arthurskittenboywife oh yeah true . But most ancient myths and story is basically that if we think about it

[@032_m.alfathcirrus5]

George Lucas = Luke Skywalker Hideaki Anno = Shinji Ikari Just other examples of great self-inserts, these writers understood their flaws to the point that Anno himself said the one thing he hated the most in NGE is the part when he sees himself, Shinji.

[@xdskiller3509]

@@032_m.alfathcirrus5 i didnt know that , now i feel bad for him for being like shinji

[@nialltealeaf275]

​@@xdskiller3509 You can even extend this into Anakin being George's Self-Insert in the prequels, more so than Obi-Wan, due to the clear flaws in his marriage that likely mirror his and Marzia's marriage.

[@rememberthatoneshow3216]

No, you can create whatever kind of character you want, even self inserts, and if the story and the writing is good enough, you'll be fine. This applies to pretty much everything. If you're good enough at writing, then most people will be fine with it.

[@STARS_SHIMMER]

well said!

[@Artificial_Idiot]

“LocalScriptMan” is also good at educating writing tips, he makes more visual style videos by using MS Paint to prove his point (a really good ones) my personal favourites from him is character sheets and writing good dialogues

[@EmilyTheWitchAnimator]

Yes that’s my opinion too. Thank you for writing this.

[@EmilyTheWitchAnimator]

@@Artificial_Idiot I might have to check him out.

[@BrokenHedgehog]

I think the biggest deciding factor is "Does this character disrupt your immersion?" If your suspension of disbelief is broken, if the lack of any real challenge to this character is making the story so boring it can't keep your attention, If you find yourself rolling your eyes and saying, "Oh God THIS asshole again"; it's a bad self-insert. Obviously that's not the only factor, there's more dimensions to it, but I think this should be the biggest red flag to look out for when writing a self-insert.

[@Veatoox]

Sung Jun Woo: (Moistcritical) Wooooo!! Kirito: (The Rock) Complete Dogshit

[@fsfredrikson]

I almost wonder if that response can be used at an advantage. Like you actually make a believably insufferable character in and out of the written universe, and explore that arc and see where it goes. That would involve a great deal of introspection, though.

[@ieuansmith518]

I've had this one idea for a self-insert as a joke for a while now, and the joke is that a character that looks, sounds and is basically me, gets either floored or killed in the strangest way possible. I don't hate myself, I just find that Idea funny. If I'm going to be in the story, I'm the unluckiest man in that story, be it a main character or a background gag.

[@CrazyGreenFluff]

that sounds hilarious, just, as a concept LMAO

[@WhatTopic2004]

Same bro, except my self insert has some wins, but the loses out way the wins

[@Monochrome2004]

this is literally my friend lmao. there's 3 of us who all have our own writing verses and we frequently collab and he in particular has himself as the main character but all the worst things ever just happen to him all the time, it's so funny

[@KrimsonKattYT]

They did that in Live A Live. One of the directors appears in every story as a joke/gag character (Watanabe) who gets brutally killed or tortured in some new, wacky way. In one chapter he appears to join the party and then gets immediately eaten by a T-Rex. In another he arrives at town right when bandits are attacking and gets run over. In another he's sneaking around a castle before he falls into a trapdoor and gets killed by a pit of snakes. In another he's a janitor in a spaceship, trips and falls on the airlock button and gets flung into space.

[@bloodmancer4824]

"Self-insert" is a slider and not really a specific character type. Everyone necessarily inserts aspects of themselves and their experiences into a character. It's the portrayal of the character that makes it apparent when it's literally just meant to be a self-insert or ego writing.

[@IBeNerdy76]

The thing is one of the biggest fictional icons was by all means a self insert. Spider man was a self insert of steve ditko. He was the artist and writer, and peter looked and acted like steve. To the point that for a while, peter had the same political beliefs as steve. But now he is now the most well known super hero. I think self inserts nowadays have a dirty connotation cause of projects like Im not starfire and velma having characters that look like someone who worked on the projects(didn't help both were REALLLYY bad lmao). But the truth is that self inserts aren't always bad, but bad writing can make the whole "self insert" thing stick out like a sore thumb. We shouldn't always judge something for having a self insert. Instead, just judge the writing instead.

[@GraveyardMaiden]

Honestly social media has made it so it's more obvious when a character is a self insert.

[@gustavonomegrande]

MC:"Why do you give me the toughest battles?" Author:"because you're me"

[@zacharybosley1935]

I think there is a really good conversation to be had about "what makes a self-insert character bad writing?" Because a good writer can write a legendary work with the most inelegant tools available

[@Davetonitheone]

When you realise denji and guts are self inserts

[@IronCrawdady]

Denji maybe, but not Guts. Don't now what shit you smoking.

[@stargate4625]

Shinji ikari and Luke skywalker are self inserts

[@superzilla784]

When Stan Lee did it, he was just making cameos in his own work. he was on screen for 10 seconds making some kind of joke. heck, there have been directors self-inserting themselves into their own movies for years. the director of Lord of The Rings and even some of the writers inserted themselves into the movie as soldiers. in Legendary's Godzilla Monsterverse, the same happened again with the director inserting himself as a soldier too, and you wouldn't know it was him unless you looked at the credits. Then there's these self-inserts. most of the time it feels like they're venting about their own personal frustrations. like the 'I'm Not Starfire' comic. the writer clearly had problems with her own mother and decided to make a story out of that. problems that are still unresolved. just look at the photos of the real person. she looks like she's annoyed at the mere presence of everyone in the room and is waiting for a reason to cut someone's head off. then there's Velma. that show is nothing but Mindy Kaling in animated form. I don't mind self inserts as long as it's clever or just for laughs. but this is just my opinion.

[@masterchiefwasdonedirty9705]

No, but making a self insert without making them a Mary Sue requires a lot of thought and care to make sure they are properly balanced and seem like an actual person as opposed to a wish fulfillment character.

[@zacharybosley1935]

What's a Mary Sue?

[@inkchariot6147]

​@@zacharybosley1935 There's a Harry Potter fanfic called "My Immortal", that should give you a great example.

[@ok-tr1nw]

@@zacharybosley1935 your pfp Nice

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@ok-tr1nw thanks. Same to you

[@masterchiefwasdonedirty9705]

@zacharybosley1935 typically a character who is not only flawless and devoid of any real issues and face no adversity, but they are also characters the story is heavily biased towards and bends backwards for. They can either be kind or complete jerks, but if they are a jerk and everyone still acts like they are the best thing since sliced bread, then that's a sign of a Mary Sue. You don't expect them to show up in Canon works since Mary Sues are often a sign of bad writing and a hallmark of a very amateurish writer. The male version of this character would be called a Gary Stu. And lastly this other quote I recall "The Mary Sue is a story trope who's central hero is a nearly perfect woman who is moral, knowledgeable and capable character that exists in the story where the supporting cast of character exists only to highlight the pre-established hero's multi faceted perfection. It isn't an archetype because it isn't timeless and because it requires a pandering supporting cast"

[@chibibble]

Sometimes the main character being a self insert is the entire point. I’ve been writing a comic for over 10 years now, with my main philosophy being “write what you want to read”. What I wanted to read was someone with my personality and difficulties being the main character instead of just an extra or the butt of a joke, as it often was in both fiction and reality. As I’ve recently discovered, I’m autistic, and the MC in the comic being a self insert was a huge advantage in helping me accept it faster. It also explained why I so desperately wanted to write someone like me, since autistic people are often infantilized, not taken seriously, or just assumed incompetent (as I have been for years).

[@kyubeyo]

I’m the opposite in the way. Using a self insert that’s a supporting role or background character really helps me (I have 2 self inserts, one is serious, one is kinda just there. The second one is very silly). I’ve always wanted to help others, and having a self insert that helps me find myself while also supporting the mc is a great way for me to find my flaws and develop with the character. It’s also just fun to make a character that’s similar to me. As for the background character one, it’s kinda like Toby Fox having a dog self insert. He’s just a silly way to reference myself hehe Edit: I’m also autistic, so I get having a self insert to accept yourself faster. I wish I used that back when I got my autism diagnosis.

[@francenkovcan5211]

thing with self-inserts is, they can be just as good as any other character, however, they are extremely liable to being written poorly since they are what author views themselves as and it's a lot more tempting to put them in a good light/be precious with them then a character that doesn't exist in real life

[@svrvphimprod]

Anyone who believes self inserts as a very broad concept are bad writing has read far too much bad Tumblr writing advice. The book "To Kill A Mockingbird" has a self insert in it. The problem itself is any character with no flaws who doesn't struggle with anything

[@raltzei8120]

Personally In my opinion no, just like most things in writing in my opinion, nothing is inherently bad rather it be a tactic or idea. Its just the execution that makes it bad. I'll most likely come back and update this after I fully watch the video but using the thumbnails images those are example of good and bad executions of self-inserts. Inserts like Toby Fox, or Stan lee are cool, and or nods to the viewer. I haven't read that starfire comic but in my opinion the one self-insert i hate the most is the miraculous lady bug thing with Thomas Astruc and Imma leave it at that.

[@ShyGuyXXL]

A self-insert isn't automatically bad, it's just that if the character is also badly written or put on a pedestal, it adds insult to injury. If you wanna put yourself in your story, go ahead. But if you do it just to make yourself feel cool without actually offering a compelling or enjoyable character, then it's just gonna be extra embarrassing. So it needs a certain level of humility.

[@Edgar_SB]

I always thought self inserts are mostly male because I can only remember one guy who self inserted into power puff girls. It's weird.I didn't know ray skywalker is considered to be a self insert. I thought she's just generally seen as a mary sue only.

[@qwmx]

When people are saying "make your own characters", it's because they have an issue with changes to existing well established characters. It's never because a random new character is created. When a new random character is created, people cry about inserting token minorities.

[@jg3000]

I've never seen anyone throw a tantrum over original characters. Just good story or bad story. People need imagination. It's sorely lacking these days.

[@LoveSickWorld]

I wanna say something that I am open to being COMPLETELY wrong about but it was a thought that came in my head when you mentioned there seems to be more female self inserts. I think in a lot of cases the self inserts tend to be a romantically involved thing, not all of them just quite often. I feel like men and women typically have a different ideal in that women want someone that would fall in love with who they are, and men want to be a person that someone wants to fall in love with. We don’t create self inserts we create the ideal person we want to be. It’s more often a man tries to create an ideal image of what they want and not just themselves. I notice that women especially when writing fan fiction or something just want what they are to be accepted and for someone to find attractiveness in that. Again this is just a shower thought with not much investigation we can talk about this but Im not looking to argue just wondering if this has any merit

[@pric3lessl0s3r5]

I actually agree with some of this too. Most of it actually

[@lionmom7629]

Yes. I think that might be a trend or a trope, especially in romance fiction. That one would make a good video, IMO!

[@martinj8500]

I agree with this too. You can see it in some music. Some songs from boy bands or artists the lyrics describe a girl but there are not actually descriptions. Its done up in a way that any girl can imagine themselves as the focus of the song. Not 100% 1 to 1 but when i had this pointed out to me i started seeing it a lot.

[@icarue993]

Adding up to the logic at the beginning. Mentioning All x are y is pretty easy to debunk. For that to be true, that means that there exist no x that is y. If there is a single x that is not y, poof, logically invalid. If you want to be a bit more "logical" its better to say some x are y (or most x are y, if you want to exaggerate). For example, there are probably many people that put a self insert in their stories out of narcissism, but not all of them... hell, probably not even most of them (at least not professionals, Tumblr/Deviant art... well...).

[@crystellik]

Wait a second, I don't need to look up examples of male self inserts, literally almost every isekai and harem protagonist is criticized for being a self insert. That's like a shit ton of se;f insert specifically male characters. I don't think it happening to a specific gender more calls for sexism though, like I don't think just because *more people call male characters self inserts than female characters that's cause of sexism, I just think there are more male self insert characters that exist than female self insert characters. And you have sword art online playing in the background throughout this video so I assume you're aware of the criticism very often levied at harem and isekai type of stories.I don't know why sexism is the first thing you go to for an explanation for that, definitely feel there's more to it than that.

[@CrazyGreenFluff]

what is the point of writing? to have fun? to tell a story? both?? if someone wants to write about themself going on a magical adventure in some fantasy land, who cares? the story might be bad, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. the story might be good, which is awesome for the writer, but at the end of the day, why does it matter? if it's a story they plan on publishing traditionally, then they'll get told if its good enough to publish, or if they should come back with a different idea. if they're publishing it online, paid for or free to read, then i ask again, who cares? and what if they do get to publish it traditionally, but it's STILL bad? if you don't like it, you can always stop reading / watching. if it's a game, you could probably refund it. i believe that, when it comes to art and storytelling, the individual should be allowed to write about whatever they want. the author has the right to tell their story, and people have the right to criticize it. i'm writing my own book and publishing it free to read on on fictionpress, and i guarantee you that it's BAD. i am also an artist. me being a writer and artist are why i have these opinions, because i have written self inserts in fanfiction, and so i'm interested in this topic. other than that, i don't have anything else to say about the topic. thank you for the excellent video! :D

[@KrimsonKattYT]

How to write a good self-insert: Make them an omnipotent god character in the lore manipulating things from the shadows, barely involved and just as a joke/easter egg/lore thing. Because in a meta sense, that's what you are to your characters, their god and ultimate creator. Like what Toby Fox, Scott Calthon, and the creator of Ultima does/did. How to write a bad self insert: Make them the main character, make everything revolve around them, make them perfect and infallible, make them an unlikable prick, etc.

[@fireballstudiose]

I feel like when writing a story, self inserting is just normal since you are the person who knows yourself best so of course your gonna end up giving your characters similar personalities and looks that mirror yourself

[@ADZ_CatznArt]

I have this symbolic black cat self insert character. But the reason why it is in every world I write, is to give some hope and love to my characters to stay strong through any traumatic moment I know they will go through. If they are to die I'd want to share them comfort in their last moments. If in any world they are real, I'd want to give them some small bit of comfort in their lives to show that even if they aren't real, I still do love them as especially some of them had helped me through my life as well. If it not the self insert cat, I give them someone or something else.

[@foxpokemonforever4775]

12:00 this does bring up an interesting point. If you like something in one instance and not the other, then there’s some kind of double-standard going on here. Self insert characters are not bad in and of themselves, regardless of what role they play in the story. It all comes down to how they’re written, and self-inserts can be clumsily handled. But that can be true of ANY story element. A villain redemption might not work given a certain context, but gets shoved in anyways. Certain battles and powers are added for rule of cool without thought of how they contribute to the story. As someone who makes a LOT of self-insert OCs, I believe that people should be allowed to write self-inserts. And it’s okay if they’re written poorly sometimes, because there’s ALWAYS something to be learned about writing from looking at those earlier characters and going “okay, I see where such and such didn’t work, but I liked this and think it worked well!” People shouldn’t be deterred from making something FUN just because others might hate it. Because self-inserts can become just as beloved as completely original characters.

[@KEN-1991]

Probably the most hottest self-insert ever created is Stripperella, even though she is also badly written. Everyone's favorite self-insert on the other hand is none other than Peter Parker, because Steve Ditko based the character off of his teenaged self.

[@lexprailius]

So this is a 'battle' I've been fighting for people to understand that a self-insert is not particularly bad, and I can at least say that my circle of people understand the story I'm writing and can see the vision I'm going for. My 'main' character is one for one based on my line of thinking, however, they're actions are dialed up to eleven based off of those lines of thinking and this means merits and flaws and all. There's a LOT I'm trying to do with my series I'm building and there are a lot of characters that I want to have the spotlight focus on for readers/viewers to enjoy, but the main character is indeed one of them that I'd imagine if it wasn't for the literal name, people might even think it would just be another character. Self-inserts aren't something I see as a bad thing per say, but I do see when characters aren't challenged enough to explore the flaws that they believe in and it makes them boring, something I think is fun to delve away from to challenge one's self of thinking.

[@stephvondames6369]

It depends. Self-Inserts can be used to show us the personal weakness of the writer or the audience.

[@NotTheDragon837]

And self inserts are bad when the writer doesn't give them any weaknesses or real flaws

[@ngozibridgeman2384]

Self inserts have the same issues as Mary sues except that self inserts can be good. They are narrative issues not character issues. And that's why they are considered part of bad writing because one is a advanced writing mechanism that requires experience to be done and doing it badly leads to narrative issues and Mary sues while the other is just that. It's Like saying edgelord characters and loners or pervs are signs of bad writing

[@magnaknight9252]

I created my own self-inserts story about what’s it like of being a superhero.

[@JinHwanL]

I've heard women read romance novels more often (as well as read more books overall) and I feel like having a female lead in a romance be unique or special in any way defeats the purpose of the novel. It's meant to be a self-insert because then it'd be a message to women about how they're not funny, rich, pretty, or x-y-z enough to attract a romantic partner. Of course, when you got fools like Kirito that have super abilities mixed with their bland personalities, it's kind of offensive to me. It's fine to be a self-insert, but not a Mr. Sue...never a sue... Anyway, it is never wrong to insert a Hideo Kojima into your story. So I really like that line "What if the guy inserting himself is a pretty cool guy?" >,< You're pretty good.

[@kosmalaanimations2864]

GTA V is the perfect example of self inserts the Hood from downtown LA but kind of failing Hollywood guy and the kind of crazy masculine guy who is highly relatable

[@John-rn1nm]

It really depends Who inserts him/her selves. If its a good author, you'll hardly even notice and likely love the story. If its a terrible story, it will glare like a sore thumb and keep getting reminded this is this girl's story. Simple as.

[@rememberthatoneshow3216]

This channel is starting to become one of my fav writing channel's on KZbin

[@theotherjared9824]

Self inserts as the main character is the typical pitfall. We are affectively seeing the world through the perspective of the writer, giving us a sometimes unintentional peek into their mind. If this character is unlikeable with no self awareness, it's fair to assume the writer is unlikeable with no self awareness.

[@wesleydraves1281]

There are three types of self inserts Type one is putting yourself or a parallel as you as a kind of “god”. Examples of this are Stan Lee, who is practically the god of marvel in the comics and the concept is pushed by other writers, and Stephen King, who made himself a pseudo prophet of his works with a fictionalized version of himself in the Dark Tower series Type two is people that can’t actually create an original character Type three is writers trying to make relatable characters, but just making carbon copies of themselves because they think their entire audience is just like them

[@genyakozlov1316]

Oh wow, you actually made a video I really like! Didn't expect that.

[@emilykearns3155]

The question we all ask: What’s the different between good self-inserts or bad self-inserts?

[@EPadraigM]

you have very respectful views! it's a nice breath of fresh from both sides throwing fruit at each other

[@Rebelco]

I never understood this idea of self insert characters outside of fanfic or games... Like in those two the point is exactly that, if for the author or the player to feel like they are in that story. But in movies and series I never understood how people think characters are supposed to represent them in a way. At least for me is hard for me to see myself in a character, I can see traits I have on them but I think more "I could be friends with them" instead of "They are like me"... Damn I write stories and even on them I can't see myself as them or doing the same stuff that they do, I know there's parts of my personality in them and some may think like me, but I would never have the energy or the courage to go in an adventure or fight against monsters or demons like my characters do.

[@Bannaslamma123]

I think self inserts are fine. As long as your not stroking your own ego or playing out some romantic fantasy. I think they can be A great way to have some self reflection on yourself as A whole.

[@the39wow]

short answer, no, but it usually is

[@pandabanaan9208]

I don't really write self inserts at least not for my actual stories(sometimes a little cringe can be fun), but I have had some cases were I will take an aspect of myself or a thought process and use that as a basis for a character, though the more I expand on them the more they start to become seperate from me, the thing is sometimes your personal experiences can be a pretty good basis for a character or story especially if you've had a perculiar life experience, like a case I've seen were a guy with a rare condition created a game to sorta represent how that condition feels

[@weavorjjohanna5619]

someone had said this but i will say it again : when someone start to argue about "Self-Inserts is a bad practice", i will immediatelly pull up "Divine Comedy"( Dante's Inferno, Dante's Purgatorio, Dante's Paradiso ) where the character is literally the author go through all 9 layers of hell, purgatory and Heaven, until this day it's still considered one of the best piece of art all know to men there is no "Self inserts are bad" only people with bad writing

[@jg3000]

You don't always have to experience stuff. You can write from imagination.

[@Air_Serpent]

Charlie Sheen mastered being a self-insert at his hey day with Two and a Half Men and a few movie roles afterwards. The same people that hate on self insert probably loved his roles. Nevermind the fact that it destroyed him. On a positive note, Curb Your Enthusiasm lasted a very long time and there's even a lot self inserts that aren't the protagonist.

[@FengLengshun]

Meanwhile, there is an entire genre of self-inserts in fanfiction... some hate it, but for others, they can't get enough of it. The greatest ones, though, usually have that honesty if not outright a little bit of vulnerability from the author themselves, and that feeling of connection feels great tbh.

[@pale6383]

The Good, the Bad, and The Stan Lee

[@dacknostrum]

The reason that self inserts are often seen as bad is because they tend to be self insert wish fulfillment slop, or weird fetish fuel. For a good self insert, you need to find works that are done by people who have reflected on themselves, and can notice their flaws, which is very rare in modern media, which either cynical, self-aggrandizing, or narcissistic. Most Good SI media is found in creative writings found on Forums, Fanfiction, usually, such as This Bites on Spacebattles, which is a One Piece SI fic that has a good understanding of the Characters and the World they inhabit to allow for the enhancement or a seamless blending of the world, and something else to note is that the character isn't very powerful, being outright one of the weakest in the cast, and having to rely on making allies, trickery, and leveraging abilities to succeed in many cases.

[@mikeyschwarzenegger2430]

i kinda self insert myself in one comic book idea, but it was more of exploring how i felt, when i was feeling exhausted by works and feat of heart attack or passing out, i kinda wrote that in the story, because i usually like writing stories that i can relate too, it's can be like a journey, one of the best children novel writing, tove, creator of moomin did a tons of self insert, but it was about narcism, it was more of confort of her self, making a safe place behind war, capitalism, homophobia and alot of stuff. it was also a idea of how life can be like. i also insert people i khow because i fell like sometime to show how you fell, you got to show it, and then they might see.

[@JustA-Person]

So far I’ve seen no one mention the most recognizable self insert ever Charlie Brown! He’s named after his creator and just like his creator was clearly struggling with depression.

[@mrhalfsaid1389]

Characters are often a self insert to some degree, you can only write a person as how you believe them to be, but generally when people say self insert they mean a character with many of the traits of the writer undesputably or a way to try and write their personal view of a good person (it just so happens that when this is obviously the case that people scream this from the roofs, because usually they write this sort of character incorrectly)

[@thundercat9427]

I think self inserts are a normal Part of the Development of a writer. Weather you notice it or not, you write what you know, and you happen to know yourself better then anyone. I didn't notice how similar one of the protagonists of the story I'm working on is to me, until someone pointed it out. But then I noticed, each of the protagonists share some aspects of myself in some way!

[@pochiluis0570]

Why do I feel like I have seen this video before despite it being one day old?

[@lymeskyze4482]

Have not yet watched the video but read the description. Would like to say that in my advanced ela class I took in 10th grade, they forced us to read A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens, which has not one, but two self insert characters. If I remember correctly one of two gets an attractive girl to date him, and the other is a literal christ figure. This seems to suggest you can write a story with literary merit even with slightly cringey self insert characters lol

[@someguythatdoesstuff7658]

One of the few times I loved a self-insert (for the creator) would be the later version of Kratos in the Norse God of War games. In my opinion, creator self-inserts are typically bad but are peak when they are given flaws, depth, and humanity. It's like the author painting a raw image to the viewer; an unidealized self that should be taken with a grain of salt (scrutiny).

[@caveirainvocada9438]

In the Guilty Gear fandom, though it's not confirmed, there is a strong belief that the protagonist Sol Badguy is the serie's creator self-insert. Sol is also an incredibly beloved character in the fandom lol.

[@aj4k]

For me when I consider arguments I also consider the premises of the argument, and if they aren't logical, then the argument isn't valid. Kind of like two parts, where both parts (being premise and conclusion) need to be valid to make a valid argument

[@venomking2188]

I always ask myself. Is there a way for a self insert to actually work? Is there a very rare chance for a self insert MC to actually be great? I always wondered because I wanted to create one. I just hope I can make it work.

[@GraveyardMaiden]

NGL it's not that self inserts are bad writing, it's just that a lot of bad writers make self inserts. Ontop of that a lot of the time these writers will never put the self insert in the wrong or do anything to expand on the character in a meaningful way or have character growth. And well this also effects the politics of the writing sense alot of the time since the author will be stuck in their own world view rather than getting the oponion of others to a create a more real world experience.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

It's funny how often Kirito is the visual reference here, when once you actually research SAO you learn how Reki doesn't identify with Kirto or Asuna at all, he was a low lever Player writing about how he imagined the high level players. It's the focus character of the short stories in the second volume that became "filler" episodes of the Anime who he saw as more like himself.

[@babyborb]

"And sometimes, the supposed self-insert character ia only perceived as such only if certain critics have an agenda to push" *shows Subaru* Every time a non-Re:Zero KZbinr actually understands Re:Zero, a kitten gets born.

[@skootergirl22]

My oc is a self insert, she's 12 and doesn't look like me, but she used to, but she shares my personality

[@someguythatdoesstuff7658]

Another thing to note is that "self-insert" characters come in many forms. One self-insert may be an author's projected image into their own character while another is one that's meant to be projected onto by audiences (AKA, the blank slate which is the character archetype which I am the most sick of).

[@StephenRansom47]

Dante’s trilogy isn’t Famous because of Dante, it’s because of the story and the world building. Further he’s not a self insert, because he is himself- Dante. I’ve subbed because I’m interested in your opinion, but you’ve diluted the definition with many of these examples. Fascinating how you show an example of distorted logic, then go right ahead and make the same mistake. Many of these examples are from entirely different POVs. Some have been displayed by the author as Actual Attacks of an intended audience.

[@geschnitztekiste4111]

Dante literally inserted himself in the story, who cares if he changed the name or not. And he’s definitely the weakest part of the story

[@clintonbehrends4659]

frankly it really depends on how interesting the person is and whether or not they write in their own or new original flaws and how well they write their self insert rohan kishibe I think is a good self-insert character

[@zacharybosley1935]

I think an uninteresting author could make an interesting self-insert if they made the situation around that character in such a way as to illustrate more depth to the character than one would otherwise suspect.

[@clintonbehrends4659]

@@zacharybosley1935 thats true too

[@genyakozlov1316]

You still hit the same snag of thinking there is a "correct" way of writing a story, which is inherently wrong and moronic, but this was still a great video. Okay, there is a wrong way of reaching a particular audience, but that's it, nothing else can be done wrong in storytelling, especially if you stop trying to reach any audience and let your work be completely open to interpretation, then you can really do no wrong even if you'll be hard pressed to communicate a message through such story, which is fine as the story isn't owed a message.

[@MrRobot2027-wd9iw]

The Star Wars sequels are an example on how not to write a story. JJ Abrams doesn't understand the source material therefore he is a moron and unable to write good stories within that universe. He wrote the most unimaginative way to continue after ROTJ as possible. JJ Abrams is only good at making TV shows like LOST and should stay away from film franchises like Star Wars or Star Trek as much as possible.

[@natrixnatrix2828]

Lev Tolstoy literally did a self-insert in one of his major books ("Anna Karenina", a character with a surname of Levin) and also used second person ("Sevastopol stories"). So, one more example!

[@RaulLopez-rq6wh]

No, but if you are unlikeable your character is going to be unlikable too

[@lanterns_glow]

Yhe reason Kaling's Velma and the Im Not Starfire character do not work as self inserts is because they feel unnecessarily shoehorned and are terribly written. Granted. I have a bias because i play tabletop games, and usually those characaters are self inserts into a narrative everyone involved is making.

[@zcnaipowered7407]

If a person says the word woke know there wasting your time

[@mrperelandra1013]

I would say no. A Princess of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs was well-written. It was also an important impact on not only science fiction but also superhero fiction. The author did insert himself in the foreward of the novel; however, the main focus is John Carter. The rest was in a first point of view from John Carter.

[@italeteller5144]

George LUCAS named his chosen one main character LUKE and nobody cares

[@lionsandhyenas]

Two of the most dreaded books assigned in AP English courses around the country possess self insert characters. Although, whether or not Tolstoy was narcissistic, for me, remains open for debate. Nevertheless: Pierre Bezukhov and Prince Andrei in War and Peace, Levin in Anna Karenina and to some extent, Prince Nekhlyudov in Resurrection were each more or less self insert. Levin, If I'm remembering right, was, according to his wife, a near perfect rendition.

[@morganqorishchi8181]

Pro writing tip: be like me and hate yourself so much that you aren't in your own dreams, aren't in your own daydreams, and all your characters who are likable have nothing in common with you whatsoever. This leads to a total lack of ever writing a self-insert, even on accident, which therefore means that I'm writing fantastically.

[@davidlz830]

How's that a tip? That's just a vent

[@yingyang7000]

female self-insert: - mary sue - narcissistic writer - agenda driven male self-insert: - I'm him - he's me - literally me

[@yungmuney5903]

Pretty fucking much 😂😂😂 It's all a load of gender politics.

[@mrwhiskerz7028]

It’s just Ken.

[@MrRobot2027-wd9iw]

BS, there's plenty of bad male self-inserts that get hate. It's just not as vocal as distaste for Rey Skywalker, Velma, or Fat Goth Chick on the thumbnail. I just can't name any examples right now.

[@GraveyardMaiden]

​@@MrRobot2027-wd9iwlet's see... MC from rent a girlfriend, and well basically any generic looking MC from just about any isekai out there

[@nameless.thelivingdock5711]

Spider-Man is also a self insert character since he starts off as this weak nerdy kid with no girlfriend and even after getting superpowers his relationship never end up with him being happy maybe because most of his writers have never had a happy relationship before. So he never advances past what his writers experience struggling with his job and relationships. Also I am just speculating at least in terms of Spidermans writers. So Yeah.

[@martinj8500]

Actually its mandated by the marval. They feel like readers wont be able to relate to spiderman if he has able to hold down a career, get married and have kids. There are plenty of side stories where Peter is married to marry jane have a kid and the kid develops spider powers, but they are not in the main universe. Its really dumb because all spiderman fans (young and old since hes been around for like 60 years) just want him to be happy and have a family.

[@EmilyTheWitchAnimator]

Yes I agree - self inserts aren’t bad as long as they are good and well rounded characters - even if they are spiritual royalty, as long as they are well written it’s fine. Also - self inserts being used for female more than male is not sexist it just means that people for some reason have decided to hate independent woman. Edit: I agree now it is kind of rooted in sexism.

[@mattentsu3227]

I agree with the talking point that self inserts aren’t inherently bad (in fact have a couple myself) but I definitely think that self inserts can make the writing suffer in a way that’s egregious in its own unique way. In I am not Starfire its especially bad because while every writer pushes their ideals onto the world and characters to some degree, the author took it as far as possible by placing herself directly in the middle of the story and distorting previously established elements with little regard to flaws in own character just for the sake of her narrative. Naturally I have my opinions about her writing unrelated to her using an insert but I feel like bringing her up doesn’t help your point all that much since she’s probably the worst example of a writer whose insert wasn’t the core issue.

[@yayababatoto]

I agree with everything in this video but I have to point out, it's "premise" and not "premises" (which means property)

[@ramiroavila9985]

Self inserts aint that bad as long as they're form of exploration

[@pric3lessl0s3r5]

At 7:58 I don't get it. I'm pretty sure Gohan is actually more a self insert than Goku even is. I dunno i need more information on the topic because with Captain marvel and Son Goku people definetly like Goku more character wise than Captain Marvel, but i dont think it is for self insert reasons.

[@jg3000]

A lot of self inserts are Mary Sues. Unfortunatly.

[@polishpower96]

Not all the time, but with I’m not star fire then yes

[@audreyharris7643]

Yeah

[@zacharybosley1935]

I'm not starfire had potential. The self-insert wasn't what wasted that potential.

[@MacBamboocha]

@@zacharybosley1935 It heavily helped in wasting it though.

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@MacBamboocha did it? Did a single uncharismatic character fail that story?

[@inkchariot6147]

​@@zacharybosley1935What potential? Just look at who the author is.

[@coolmacncheese]

It's fine to take inspiration within oneself, but to try to only use it for wish fulfillment leads to characters that just don't work in trying to make an engaging plot. I like the draw of Alex Hirsch using his own sibling relationship as the baseline for Dipper and Mabel's creation, but Dipper also isn't just Alex in a cartoon suit.

[@coolmacncheese]

Even then there are ways to make wish fulfillment characters engaging by showing them developing into someone you want to work towards yourself through the story instead of them just starting out that way.

[@ChupacabraRex]

Not neccesarily, but more often than not it dones't end up well.

[@FrootDeMoN]

9:39 so true Why are you so underrated?

[@Roldortriangle]

LOGICAL PROOFS YAAAASSSSSS

[@zacdemarest5493]

yes, and the exception doesn't disprove the rule. video done.

[@audreyharris7643]

I feel like it depends on how there done and how you make yourself look. Besides just using a few traits you have

[@jg3000]

I think writing can get better if you put yourself in someone elses shoes. Keep writing. Peace.

[@ephemeraIl]

It depends on the context. Are we on watt pad or are we reading an actual book?

[@rossjones8656]

Things with self incerts is a very odd thing. Self incerts on video games are good obviously and when it comes to everything it's automatically bad even tho everyone that is writen has a bit of self incert. When it comes to the politics of it all it's always a good rule to see how the writer is as a person.

[@CiborguePlatinado]

No, i love Rohan

[@rfhextra]

i like this

[@gabbodelaparrawrites]

Black Adam was an absolute self-insert (he didn't even want Shazam around), but we don't see people screaming about that one. 🤣🤣🤣

[@MrRobot2027-wd9iw]

Many people hated the film and only liked the Dr. Fate scenes that were well animated. The film was 5/10 at best.

[@Ramsey276one]

From bad writers, *YES THEY ARE*