I Read I Am Not Starfire And We NEED To Talk...

[@Pandaoniman]

I just dont understand how Starfire raised a daughter without introducing any of her own culture into her daughter's life.

[@irrevenant8724]

Seems like she chose not to. In part because she seems to be basically exiled and didn't want Mandy to have to deal with all that.

[@rattian1976]

@@irrevenant8724 that honestly could've been a great dynamic to explore. There seems to be a lot of missed potential with the concept itself.

[@tr33chimes48]

I don't think Starfire chose not to. I think she might have tried to teach Mandy about Tamarian culture, but Mandy is a spoiled brat who hates her mother, so she probably didn't listen.

[@irrevenant8724]

@@tr33chimes48 Yup. For some reason people keep talking like this is some sort of hatchet piece on Starfire when it's quite clear that the story is written from the point of view of a disaffected teenager who doesn't appreciate how great her mum is. Complainers gonna complain, I guess.

[@Yfrith]

@@irrevenant8724 some people grew up with teen titans.A lot of people hold them dear to their heart, i do too it help me through hard times. It felt like the stories happens in a vacuum, where things only happen around or because of mandy. And the potrayal of starfire felt only like something to further the plot. It care a lot more on the message rather than its characters, and it sucks how the titans is nothing more than a decor to the story. If teen titans wasn't such a beloved franchise, the bad writing/cliche people wouldn't really care. But seeing the characters you love being potrayed unjustifiably, dont expect them to not care

[@kansastagai9081]

I still don't understand why Starfire was chosen for this. Starfire's best friend is a Goth demon with daddy issues that nearly destroyed the multiverse. I think she can handle a punk like Mandy. This would have worked so much better and probably been better received had it been some other female character. Like Wonder Woman. Imagine having the beacon of truth and most powerful woman on Earth as your mother. Can you imagine getting Lasso of Truthed ever time you came home 15 minutes late?

[@valeriarossini543]

ok that sounds like a super interesting premise

[@kansastagai9081]

@@valeriarossini543 I got more of them. How about Batman with a spoiled brat who he never had time for and just showered with his money in an attempt to keep him safe? Or Superman with a delinquent punk who doesn't believe in all that boyscout bs. Or Shazam knocking up a girl when he was 15 and using his more mature alt form to hide from his kid how young and scared he actually is. Hell, we could easily do one for Raven instead where her inability to communicate and awkwardness in social situations makes her relationship with her daughter difficult. Not helped by the fact she can feel emotion which causes her to pry when she knows her daughter is upset by something but being a child doesn't want to talk about it or can't explain it with words. This exact same story would work 10 times better if we swapped the goth and the princess dynamic.

[@nayhamistick2043]

@@valeriarossini543 LOL. I love this comment

[@loneronin6813]

I could definitely see Wonder Woman being a parent in this scenario you suggested. I couldn't possibly imagine just how difficult it would be to live up to the expectations of being just like your mother when it's Wonder Woman of all heroines that you are expected to emulate. I also really love your other ideas with other heroes/heroines. In all seriousness I would really love to see them made into published works.

[@KNNK]

It could be due to the self-insert put into the comic. It’s possible that the writer had some weird fantasy of wanting to be the daughter of Starfire; or Starfire being their favorite character and want to feel as if they are connect with the character

[@flwerby]

starfires bestfriend is RAVEN, RAVEN!!! she knows how to handle the teen angst emo energy.

[@charlesintune]

It's not the same when it's your daughter and you're a single mom. (Lots of people cite this as a criticism LOL how?? )

[@blueberryblues5644]

@@charlesintune I think probably because it's a valid criticism LOL HAHA because it doesn't make any sense if you think about it LOL (LOL!!)

[@Nakia11798]

@@charlesintune I mean, it's not exactly the same, but having experience with it should help you understand somewhat. They basically ignored any influence Raven might have on Starfire.

[@southernsnowman7788]

I want to see Raven have this emo kid as her assistant 😂 I think it's going to be really fun

[@TheLikenessOfNormal]

@@southernsnowman7788 Dude, she'd just end up killing Mandy or sending her to a hell dimension so she can understand actual pain. You guys aren't seeing them beyond both wearing black. The characters are NOTHING alike beyond a color choice. Raven might be seen as a goth but she wasn't a angsty, nihilist, teenage smoker. Raven is emotionless, almost a stoic, because she had to cut herself off from her emotions to keep her power in check so she didn't hurt the people around her or possibly end the entire universe by releasing Trigon. Mandy overeats and acts like a bitch to everyone around her *including Starfire* because her regular life without powers that mark her as a target is just sooooo hard. The greatest irony is that of all the Justice Leaguers that she may get along with its probably Batman and Oliver Quinn, who both chose to be heroes in spite of their lack of powers, which is kind of her entire arc, that she's angsty cause she isn't superpowered (which would work if they had actually committed to that instead of spontaneously she thinks her mom whose never given her reason to think otherwise; loves her and then BOOM powers and "I'm so happy and great and now the girl I've been emotionally and verbally abusive too is gonna be my girlfriend!"

[@raelogan]

Oh, if only Starfire had a long time best friend who knew how to relate to angsty teenagers trying to distance themselves from thier parents to build thier own worth as a person separate from that. Oh, if only.

[@exaltedfalcheon1793]

Ikr

[@noobium5333]

you could argue that both robin and raven could fill this role

[@raelogan]

@@noobium5333 Exactly! Starfire had friends as resources for help on this matter, and the writer chose not to take advantage of presestablished relationships to fit this better in the setting. 👀

[@maleitamaleizir4314]

That's the first thing I thought too. Not only could Starfire ask Raven for help, but she herself would have plenty of experience after having for so long a friend like Raven. This story doesn't make sense.

[@swaglevi4315]

Jason Raven Dick Roy pretty much all of them would've helped her out

[@w1ck3dz0d1ac]

The author really screwed up. Raven is Starfire's best friend. She knows how to deal with brooding goth teens since Raven.

[@howareyoumoreofaclownthanme]

Robin is an edgelord himself sometimes. Starfire should have understanding of goth and distant down to a T.

[@Tazirai]

It's an alternate universe. Would you be friends or even family with the same people in every universe?

[@Gopherzooka]

@@Tazirai so now anything that is bad or inconsistant wuth the character will be excused with "alternate reality"

[@w1ck3dz0d1ac]

Maybe there's an alternative universe where we celebrate mediocrity, but I'd like to avoid Harrison Bergeron or Brave New World in real life.

[@andrewcook2625]

@@Tazirai issue with your logic... the video literally shows raven with the titans at statfires house So yes even in this universe star is still friends raven

[@dio9344]

Imagine being the love interest of the main character only to be lectured about how insensitive she is for taking pictures with superheroes.

[@Hanako-Kun-t9b]

I would have taken a picture with the titans.

[@inigoerrandonea2513]

@@kimlovestruck2774 Actually no. She isn't bullied, she isn't told by her mother how shes not worthy of being her daughte. Starfire actually loves her daughter and Mandy doesn't give a shit. She's a horrible person that hates heroes bcz of some shitty reason. But hey now that she has powers and can be famous, obviously she wants to become a hero and now no longer hates heroes, bcz if not she would be contradicting herself. Oh yeah and also she doesn't tell her crush/gf " Oh no don't worry I know you just admire them bcz THEY SAVE LIVES ". Mandy is a character with no growth whatsoever and that just becomes a hero, not bcz of how she admires her mother or bcz she was saved by superman or smth, it's just bcz " Oh I guess I got powers" and "Oh I guess I can be famous now".

[@Hanako-Kun-t9b]

@@kimlovestruck2774 I still take a picture with the titans.

[@GoblinAttacForce]

@@Hanako-Kun-t9b nothing is gonna stop me from taking a pic with beast boy

[@JFrom843]

@@kimlovestruck2774 I don't think any rational, realistic person would ruin a friendship over a picture with superheros. I get it Mandy is a selfish brat that feels very minuscule, but c'mon now. It's superheros.

[@madisonm.5198]

Mandys whole story is literally “I hate my mother cause I don’t have powers” and then her “”redemption is literally “now I have powers so I like my mother again” 😅 I wouldn’t enjoy that story at all

[@_stupidbro]

Yeah. It would've been better if it had gone in the "I don't have powers, and that's okay" or even the "my powers are different from my mom's, and that's okay" route. Either way, the bonding should come from more open communication, probably getting a third party involved... which would've been an EXCELLENT way to incorporate Raven into the mix, as someone who has known Starfire long enough to understand what she's trying to say and has probably been where Mandy is now, and will understand what Mandy's hearing in what is being said. The fact that Raven barely makes an appearance is honestly kind of disappointing, especially since I feel like Starfire would be quick to ask Raven for advice.

[@madisonm.5198]

@@_stupidbro exactly!! And honestly I hate the fact that she slut shames her own mother but then “oh my mother judges me for my looks” like bih what?! You just did the same thing?!? And then her crush shows interest in the Titans and she’s all mad like “how dare you be into something I’m not into that makes you a bad friend and person” like what the hell girl not everyone is going to hate and like everything you do 😅😅😅

[@claraclenky9843]

@@madisonm.5198 it’s even worse, she got peeved off because she took a picture in her house. That’s it

[@madisonm.5198]

@@claraclenky9843 Fr!!!! Like she’s such a hypocrite I can’t find anything redeeming about her character. Also the fact that she only has one friend cause he’s willing to just hate everything she hates like girl no one cares about your looks I’m pretty sure you have no friends cause of that gross attitude 😂😂

[@Child_Dog]

Yeah, I guess I'd have to read it to have a fully fair opinion but based on all the plot elements but particularly this, I can't see this ever being a story I could enjoy. Sounds like it has a horrible message throughout.

[@ezrablevens4188]

my main issue is that it reads as if the writer doesn’t know much about starfire and it pushes the whole “i’m not like other girls” thing as a personality trait instead of acknowledging how toxic that attitude can be.

[@annabellthedoll9953]

It's not 'I'm not like other girls' that is toxic it's 'I wannabe not like other girls that is toxic'.

[@guillermolopez6130]

What's weird too is that it's a self insert where the character is identical to the author. So like... why did you make starfish your mom just to resent her??

[@srrynnie1818]

@@guillermolopez6130 This is exactly why I don’t believe the authors intentions with this book. All this was just a way for her to massively monetize her starfire hate fic

[@S1RW01FY]

This book is literally just “im not like other girls im so emo xoxo” and any time I see stuff like that i just flop onto the floor and scream

[@strider117aldo9]

​@@guillermolopez6130Starfish Jah

[@choux8372]

Tbh, even if Mandy was drawn with a slender body type, she would still come across as self pitying and ungrateful. It's the writing that really hurts her and Starfire's character

[@FezFindie]

But now some people go "Okay, so fat people are nasty 8D", nice job there.

[@paxtonstewart8042]

Yeah. In all honesty the idea of Starfire having a daughter with a larger frame could probably used in interesting ways. However, the writing doesn’t seem particularly great, from what I’ve heard.

[@mleppp1546]

I don’t think it matters what body shape Mandy has. However she looks, she’s still a nasty, self-pitying YA protagonist. She’s sapphic, but that doesn’t matter because she’s a bad, annoying character. Whatever minorities she happens to fit in, she still wouldn’t change if she _didn’t_ .

[@maxteraform]

@@mleppp1546 It kinda bothers people because she is almost identical to the author. She is so clearly a self-insert character

[@apolloandwarrior_3229]

I'm a teenager rn I don't really relate to Mandy all that much but that's probably because I have a very tight knit family and I'm sorta social? I'm not invested in dc but i did grow up with teen titans. And as an artist myself the mouths and poses look a bit awkward to me, then agian most comics I've read are Manga.

[@benjohnson9224]

The issue I’m finding with alt-versions of Starfire is that people use the shallow characteristics of her personality from the Teen Titans show, but not much else. Yes, Starfire spoke a little differently and didn’t understand Earth’s customs on that show. It made sense, she was literally alien; however she was also deeply empathetic and gracious. She came from a rough background but still chose to be loving and joyful, and she always believed the best in people, even though she sometimes struggled believing in herself. She also fought against bullies and tyrants. She was in every sense a great hero and role model. That’s not me bringing her comic counterpart into the show, that was all clearly shown IN the show. It’s like the author just saw a couple of funny clips of Starfire and didn’t actually do any research to what the character actually was.

[@aros0018]

Honestly I think Starfire and Cyborg suffer the most from this. Writers know the 2003 cartoon versions are popular but don't understand why, and so they use just the very surface level details like "the" and "Booyah!" and think that's enough to equate that character.

[@tw629108]

@@aros0018 I agree with this so much! The new shows are really funny, but partly because we already knew and loved the teen titans as they were before. It's sad that DC actually officially backed this fanfic way of representing their characters. Starfire was always my favorite she is such an interesting character.

[@bannedmann4469]

Well said.

[@Ando1428]

That's because people don't read comits anymore.

[@untitled-gv3qp]

@@Ando1428 I think there may be a way to bring comics back. I mean people still read manga.

[@frazzledazzle1563]

One of my huge issues is Mandy's constant sl*t shaming of her own mother. Constantly making fun of the way she dresses. Its like she never even learned how her own mothers superpowers work??? Because if you know Starfires lore, she has to basically absorb sunlight through her skin to convert into pure energy and fuel her superpowers.

[@angycat4262]

She kinda NEEDS to dress like that, and tbh even if she didn't she has every right to, should've put the kid up for adoption before letting her turn 18

[@abhajn]

And even if starfire did not have those powers, Mandy still does not have any right to judge how someone else dresses

[@vitorhugobacicpessoavidal325]

😂😂😂I'm sorry, but all i could think about that is the type of ridiculous explanations people need to give so that some comic characters dress clothes that show more parts of the body. I mean, if superman feeds from sunlight why wouldn't he use clothes like that too? Oh, so she can use her powers only when most of the body is showing, and superman just have it... but yeah, that thing about sl*t shaming is kinda bad. She has the right to use any clothes she wanted too. P.s Now i've thinked about something even more crazy...what if...the reason Mandy has no powers until the end...is because she dress too much clothes? 😂😂😂 That would be nuts!

[@leephillips4402]

Well her not understanding and being resentful of her mother was a major theme of this story.

[@probablygrounded]

​@@vitorhugobacicpessoavidal325 because Superman and Starfire weren't exactly made in a male and female are equal era. Of course Starfire would be forced to show skin with her power, but Superman doesn't have to because... he's a man.

[@deech18]

I went to college with the artist. She has amazing art and some beautiful tarot card sets. I don't think her style really fits the traditional comics aesthetic but IMHO the biggest problem here is the writing, not the art.

[@brandonframe1743]

It's both

[@momotaro1236]

I think the art style is fine, I don’t think it’s the best for a DC comic but it’s not ugly

[@Yfrith]

I think so too, the color palette and the simple coloring makes the characters more stand out from the background. Reminds me of webtoon comics. Kinda sucks that all the titans cast that we knew is nothing more of a decor that serves the MC's cliche story.

[@Astartes-6969]

Oh god. Not tarot cards.

[@Creature7777]

Yeah I read her book "Laura Deen keeps breaking up with me" and it's genuinely one of my favorite graphic novels. I really saw myself and experience with toxic relationships (mine weren't romantic but still) in the main character. I was very surprised that these two books were written by the same person.

[@benjaminacuna8013]

It feels like Mandys character was deliberately made unconventional and alt just to show her contrast. However the issue would be that she isn’t displaying any hybrid alien vibes at all. Mandy has no tamaranean features at all.

[@ChibiMalin]

To be fair she got her moms eyes and hair color, she even have freckles which starfire seems to have in this comic

[@simpletown323]

I agree. we are all products of our parents to some degree and so its a little strange that she doesnt show any quirks or mannerisms that relate her or show her being raised by a literal alien from a literal alien culture. Like casually comics said, if you think beyond the surface level, it all falls apart narratively (more or less)

[@angie.castle]

@@simpletown323 yeah, now that you mention it, I wish they touched on that more. Like, I highley doubt Starfire wouldn't express some Tamaranean culture like food, words, or celebrations. Would've been nice if perhaps Mandy had one Tamaranean food that grossed out others but was a comfort food to her, that brought nostalgia of her childhood, but had stopped eating it because of wanting to distances herself from her mom (and indirectly, her own culture) as well as a byproduct of feeling like an outsider in human dominant society.

[@theSkin_of_a_Killer_Bella]

@@ChibiMalin yeah, there’s that. But I guess when they said “features” that they weren’t exactly talking about looks🤷‍♀️

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

No, she’s a self insert. Look at the author. It’s just a idealized version of herself. It’s not even deep enough to be “contrasting”. It’s just a straight self insert.

[@gatfatf]

Really weird that Raven never took an interest in Mandy as soon as she dyed her hair black and was visibly isolating herself from the world. Like, the daughter of Trigon say a goth girl struggling with parental lineage and said to herself "I'm sure this'll sort itself out" as if the titans didn't bleed for her to feel welcome on the planet. At the very least they could've passed around music and brooded adjacent to one another. Like she said, as soon as you pull the strings this falls apart.

[@ginadavis7331]

What's even weirder is that starfire didn't reach out to raven first for advice on what to do, seeing her become the way she is.

[@Voldrim359]

Raven had a good reason to distance herself from the rest of the people, as she rejected them not because she hate people, but she is afraid to hurt someone because her powers are related to his demon father and could came the day she cannot control them anymore

[@TheLikenessOfNormal]

I disagree. Raven is a goth because she grew up in a shitty situation with unstable powers that she could easily lose control of and bring Trigon one of the most powerful beings in existence to the mortal plane. Where she had to literally cut herself off from her emotions in order to keep control of her powers. Mandy is a spoiled princess, living in the lap of luxury being raised by one of the most loving people in the entire multiverse who lashes out because she knows she's safe when she does it, allowing her to be a bully to everyone around her. Mandy is a piece of shit person who any of the heroes who had legitimate struggles or who had to isolate themselves from their family because their powers made interacting with normal people dangerous (you think Superman was able to give hugs to his elderly parents immediately after he started showing vastly multiplied strength?) or because their family's are dead. Like even if Dick Grayson is her father I can see her character being part of the reason he doesn't come home, as why would someone who literally worked in a circus as a child because that was the only way his parents could take care of him only to have them brutally murdered in front of his eyes have ANY sympathy for someone who gets pissed off that their mother TRIES to understand them and is successfully helping to provide a GREAT and STABLE life for her. Compared to anyone Starfire knows her own daughter is just so... Ungrateful. Like even think of Starfire's titan friends: Dick Grayson - Parents brutally murdered in front of his eyes, then was raised by a semi-abusive demented martial artist who dressed him as a bird while he dressed as a bat Cyborg - Forcefully changed against his will, bonding him with advanced alien technology making him a tech wiz but taking away the sports he loved more then anything else in the world and his chance at a normal life, the literal thing Mandy pisses on all the time Beast Boy - Was infected with a rare disease from an animal bite and the experimental treatment to cure him turned him green and gave him his powers. He was then adopted by members of the Doom Patrol where he was essentially a child soldier until he joined the titans only to have his birth parents and adopted mother all be killed at almost the exact same time literally leaving him with barely any family for the woman he then falls in love with to be a traitor that he has to help fight, ending in her death. Raven - Daughter of one of the most powerful extradimensional beings in existence had to lock away her own feelings in order to not be overwhelmed by her power, possibly unleashing Trigon and the end of the universe or at the least the end of Earth. What the fuck does Mandy have to be such a pissy bitch about? And why would ANY of those characters have more then just a courteous amount of patience for her? Hell if I didn't wanna give the writer credit I'd say that's why she didn't include the other titans, because ***they all hate the person Starfire created.***

[@lick28]

@@Voldrim359 I'm pretty sure she already sorted that hurting others bit out.

[@gatfatf]

@@TheLikenessOfNormal It's a crazy world we live in when someone can wholeheartedly say that a a hypothetical absentee father is JUSTIFIED in abandoning their child because of how the child acts. And these comparisons to people who aren't whatsherface helping either If anything they're only piling on to how inadequate she feels compared to the Titans, especially her mom. What teen has ever responded well to the "had to walk 2 miles, in the snow, uphill both ways" speech? It's extremely rare for teens to actually have their lives in order, despite sometimes thinking they do. It's incredibly easy for them to latch on to the "wrong" lessons set up by their environment and parents. In Not Starfire's case it seems to revolve around Daughter Dearest thinking she's constantly disappointing her mom, yet mom goes right along loving her. This confuses the daughter, so she put effort into rejecting just about everything her mom suggests and is in order, since she "knows" it can only end in failure. After all, most of what the voice in her head is saying 'I Am Not Starfire.' Ol' Girl is hypersensitive to other people's actions towards her and absolutely hates perceived two-facedness, which is why she reacted so viscerally to that Instagram post made by her crush. At least that's my interpretation. Personally I'd like to think the Teen Titans would have enough emotional depth to be able to empathize with situation so different from their own and see the similarities in their own struggles. The reason I mentioned Raven specifically was that she also suffered from mental anxiety with how her efforts to avoid falling into her Dad's legacy/hopes for her life ended up consuming her life. Again, I doubt any of the Titans would be obtuse enough to shout down this visibly train wrecked in the head teenager who happens to be their best friends daughter when they themselves also had to go through plenty of soul searching during their youths and didn't always do the right thing.

[@hannarowan8735]

I think, instead of having a daughter being bratty like this, they could have made it so Mandy was shy and self conscious, especially with her weight and lack of genuine connection with her Tamaranean heritage outside her hair and eye color. Imagine your mother is literally sunshine incarnate and is so strong, but all you are is normal, and that fuels into anxiety as you grow older. That could have been more compelling and made Mandy more relatable. Many struggle with anxiety and low self esteem, and being naturally shy instead of super outgoing could only fuel the aforementioned traits.

[@tinychild7371]

that would probably make me cry ngl

[@irrevenant3]

IMO that *is* a big part of her motivation - she feels inadequate next to the shining example that is her mother. But teenagers aren't the wisest and most emotionally developed creatures ever, and Mandy reacts to feeling insecure by with defensiveness and aggression. It probably doesn't help that being empathetic, emotionally open and understanding is very much her mother's hat, so Mandy going down that path would feel like giving up part of herself to do things her mother's way.

[@rattling.casket]

that would be Amazing. especially because when we're young adults, standing next to our parents with their houses and educations and long term jobs and they know how to plan large vacations and pay taxes and shit, so they're better than us in Literally every way ((specially because these are all things that have become nearly impossible to attain in recent years)) making you self conscious is Very relateable.

[@bex8714]

That would have been so much cooler.

[@Snax000]

She clearly struggles with low self esteem and anxiety if you look closely at her actions. For example, her nearly going into a panic attack from taking a test and running away. Her jumping to the conclusion that her crush doesn't like her and it's just using her over the photo. Her not trying at literally anything because she is afraid to see herself fail. These are just a few off the top of my head. Low self esteem doesn't have to manifest into you being a quiet, polite or reserved person. You'll find that alot of the people who seem like the exact opposite of Mandy can still suffer from the same problem

[@Cris-qn2ii]

Considering Starfire had to deal with Raven and her emo tendencies for a long time, and she was very forgiving to her sister Blackfire who kept betraying her, I'd say she should be quite good at handling her gothic child

[@thetux459]

Feels like Raven being around really should have been able to solve a lot of the communication problems Like... did Starfire not tell the her broody empath friend that she has having trouble connecting to her broody daughter. Moreover shouldn't Raven just have noticed this stuff at the 16th birthday party?

[@InfiniteRolePlay]

WORD!

[@tama3162]

That's what I felt both reading the book and listening to this video. Like??? Raven would be the perfect mediator between Starfire and Mandy! If Mandy _still_ felt a disconnect with her mom with Raven present, I don't see why she _wouldn't_ confide in Raven, especially with how similar they are at the most basic level.

[@mosesmm5473]

I think she said it herself, there are issues in this book that if you think about or ask, the entire story falls apart.

[@tama3162]

Pretty much, yeah. Like there's no reason why Starfire wouldn't raise Mandy with the Titans as like, a big family unit, if nobody knows who her bio dad is.

[@ecru_5819]

That is true 🤔 Raven would be a good mediator for Mandy

[@Atlas-tv9jb]

As someone who at times has been the depressed edgy teen and the friend to depressed edgy teen there are so many layers to the trivialised "teenage angst" that this comic just totally managed to swerve. Like, Mandy has no personality traits other than being a massive goth teen stereotype. Idk, every single one of the characters just seem so... Shallow

[@seabirdflutter]

they just feel like caricatures of what older people think teens are like.

[@nazaninsoltanpour6254]

@@seabirdflutter From what I found out the author was 47 so yeah...It's exactly that.

[@mrmanju6989]

it's called bad writing

[@Zeverinsen]

The fact that she didn't use Nightwing as a father who's just never home, was a missed opportunity. Additionally, the fact that she didn't incorporate Starfire's titan friends, especially Raven, into this is absurd. Starfire airing out her frustrations to and getting advice from Raven, the brooding goth Queen herself, would be perfect for this. But, because of the cringey premise of the story and character, it would've never been a cult classic.

[@LordKamina2]

i refuse to believe she's that short and has greyson genes

[@michaelroberts4748]

I could never see Nightwing being an absentee father. Dude's proven himself to be able to do what Batman couldn't (I bring up Batman because he struggles not being out fighting crime. While he has been there for Damien and the other members of the Bat-Family, he isn't the best dad). Nightwing has hung up the mantle, he's done good without the suit, currently with his newly given fortune he's helping/helped a homeless community in Bludhaven. So if Nightwing was aware he had a daughter I feel he'd make the most out of being a dad and do everything to be there, especially knowing what it's like to lose one. Now an interesting idea, is that Starfire would think Nightwing is Mandy's dad but it isn't. In New 52, Starfire had relationship with both Red Hood and Roy Harper (Arsenal/ Red Arrow), but her first time meeting Red Hood, she believed it was Dick and even had an old costume to help remember him by. So the idea of Nightwing unknowing that Mandy's been told he's her dad or Starfire thinking he is, but someone like Roy Harper, who is arguably the most messed up dude in DC to really be her dad would be cool and have potential story ideas.

[@dtc6597]

Oh, there's no way they would tamper with Dick's character in that way because DC actually gives a damn about him. The fact that they did Starfire like this is very telling in terms of her worth in their eyes. Shameful.

[@alesbianhotmess]

Eh no. I'd feel like (I love him sorry) but I think Roy Harper would fit better.

[@egiltroubadour826]

I disagree that the premise was bad, unoriginal, yes but not bad. They just didn't do shit with it nor the characters. As a beginner comic creator who isn't confident in my writing ability, i feel like i could have done a much better job xD

[@hunterkiller1440]

The story is actually quite awful. It's basically angsty teen wants to be an angsty teen...just because. The writing just feels like going through a cringey teenage post.

[@axeliso]

I see you everywhere

[@kungfreddie]

Tbh... just bcoz isn't that the reason teenagers do anything.. today it seems like they do it until their 30s.

[@maxxpheonix8470]

HUNTER! Samurai Fortify!

[@MrPpericles]

I agree the Arthur just wrote a story about how it would be if she was Starfire daughter

[@Soy_boi]

@@kungfreddie god I hope you don’t have kids…

[@jaborsey_joseph]

Should've had Mandy be an adopted daughter and her real mom be Blackfire, then the relationship would be more grounded

[@mycatateit284]

right? such a missed opportunity!

[@marhawkman303]

@@mycatateit284 ooohh... that'd be a good reveal for the end actually. I always bugged me... why Mandy? Why would Starfire choose that when her sister(Blackfire) is KomMAND'r? It feels like she was effectively named Kommand'r jr.... WHy?!?!?!

[@saraannriiko]

It would make much more sense, but Mandy’s character would still suck

[@heesett]

I like how the ending is just: "Blackfire is getting arrested by space police for violating the Geneva convention - and Starfire is saved by the power of FAMILY"

[@Xehanort10]

Mandy's dad is Dominic Toretto confirmed.

[@Xehanort10]

And isn't Blackfire what Starfire's sister called in the main universe?

[@joshuaingobo1559]

@@Xehanort10 Yes

[@GlassesnMouthplates]

"Blackfire, age XXX, gave herself up to the authorities after the incident. She is now serving a life sentence." as the ending theme plays.

[@KawaiiJackHonne]

Pfft

[@Syntherus]

Mandy has literally no redeemable qualities. I've read insecure, self-pitying characters before and this ain't it. Also, the mother/ daughter plot was mishandled. The building blocks to a competent story where the daughter felt overshadowed by her amazing mother only to find out she was more like her than she realized is there. That's what disappointed me most about this. It could have been much more, the seeds were there, but in the end it was just Mandy lashing out the entire time and being rewarded in the end with powers and a love interest. Why? I dunno. She's the main character, I guess. Also, wtf was Blackfire doing there? She won. She ruled Tamaran with an iron fist. I'm sure she already killed everyone that opposed her at least 10 years prior.

[@GeteMachine]

I think what makes the story weak is that it was a theme handled a bit superficially and it didn't feel like it used much context from the DC universe or Starfire's character to build up Mandy's dislike of her. I think they should have done it from more of a superhero context and they should have given her more of a reason to distance herself from Starfire than just feeling overshadowed by her. We know Blackfire hated Starfire because Starfire learned to fly before her, and Blackfire had some sort of disorder that made it difficult for her (I think thats what it was). Maybe they could have made Blackfire jealous that she doesn't have any children or an heir, while Starfire does (something her younger sister has over her again.) Maybe they could have used Blackfire to influence that, and feed her the wrong information based on her own actual dislike of Starfire. There are ways they definitely could have done this better if the writer was thinking about it from a comic perspective or had someone to help her.

[@GeteMachine]

Give an example of a likable, insecure and self-pitying character. One that is liked because of it, in comics.

[@luislee3247]

@@GeteMachine Tomoko from WataMote?

[@HopelessDjinn]

@@GeteMachine Literally Peter Parker

[@sorakh4119]

@@HopelessDjinn That’s a pretty good answer actually.

[@winsomejacobs7548]

and they REALLY just COULDN’T let mandy have tan skin, huh :/

[@terraburrell3843]

Apparently not

[@TheHeroOfTomorrow]

How many tan goths have you seen?

[@winsomejacobs7548]

@@TheHeroOfTomorrow as in white people with a sun tan? a decent amount, actually. and if you mean black and brown goths? a whole lot more ❤️🤷🏽‍♀️

[@n0nn361]

@@TheHeroOfTomorrow The first goth I met was dark skinned :/

[@erniemitch9922]

It is a self insert fanfic

[@dr.hemlock5909]

I just felt really bad for all the people on Mandy’s side except for Lincoln. Mandy said some genuinely disrespectful and hurtful things to the people closest to her and she got little to no repercussions for how she acted. It makes me angry.

[@leek.3671]

Fr!! That shit isn’t ok to say to people! And we can’t normalise with kids that you can say that stuff with no repercussions at all

[@WhoTookMyMirr]

That's what happens when the writer uses their work to vent their own issues with their mom. (And don't really bother to even hide it)

[@marhawkman303]

@@leek.3671 Also it's so extreme that Mandy is WORSE than her classmates about being a jerk.

[@brains7942]

Mandy is they type of person that feels everyone should walk on eggshells for HER feelings, but have to suck it up when she behaves abusive herself. She's awful.

[@johnroscoe2406]

But that's how it is today. Part of being empowered and respecting yourself is how much of a nasty, rude, asocial jerk you can be and not only avoid repercussions for it but actually be praised for it. It's empowering to ignore that someone else has their own feelings and their own worldview and their own shit to deal with. Fuck them.

[@WhoTookMyMirr]

For a comic that prides itself on being positive in many degrees, there were a LOT of uncomfortable "fat person eating" jokes that reached "every 80s-90s fat kid stereotype" levels of cartoonish.

[@Nakia11798]

I don't think they were meant to be jokes. Moreso showing she has to eat a metric ton to even get overweight due to her genes.

[@WhoTookMyMirr]

@@Nakia11798 the problem is there's not much else to her personality other than being fat and hating her mom

[@dildonius]

@@VFPro_ Ah yes. The character is overweight and wears black, the author is overweight and sometimes wears clothes that have black colors. So that means it's a confirmed self-insert and we all need to hyper-fixate on this one random YA graphic novel and REEEEEEEEEEEEE about it online instead of just....idk, having a life?

[@dildonius]

@@WhoTookMyMirr You've read this story?

[@WhoTookMyMirr]

@@dildonius yes. I have, actually. Were you hoping that I hadn't?

[@Nessmess001]

"French people don't have superheroes" The disrespect towards Ladybug and Chat Noir I swear-

[@dumptruckanonymous9532]

Monsieur Rat

[@danielsantos-wh2op]

The autor probably didn’t know about them. Idk if she has experience with super heroes.

[@Alexanbreizh]

...and Super Dupont! ok I'll found the exit myself ►

[@dumptruckanonymous9532]

@@mikasaackerman9605 yeah I'm bored with marinette non progression and straight up regression. We need more of adrien's perspective

[@peacefulchaos333]

@@mikasaackerman9605 lol same

[@cryingtomatohead8626]

My main issues are how they characterize starfire and the treatment of this mother-daughter relationship. Their relationship is treated as if they were just suddenly plopped into each other's lives and practiclly know nothing about each other. Starfire, who is very open about her people's customs, has shared nothing about their ways to her own daughter. How their powers work aside, even just the language, cultural norms and her royal status was kept a secret from her daughter which is extremly out of character for her even in the comics. Secondly madly acts so crudly to her mother and starfire acts like her not having powers is a tradgey. Starfire is so nice and accepting of others, why would she care if her daughter didn't get powers as long as she was happy and healthy? The characterization just doens't sit well with me

[@Scipio488]

"which is extremly out of character for her even in the comics." Perhaps you've never met any parents. Sparing their children whatever they themselves feel was deleterious to their own childhoods is their default priority. And Starfire's origins and royal status are definitely something she'd want to protect her child from.

[@vey5579]

It all just sounds like a poorly written fanfiction to me 😮‍💨

[@TheArtSmith23]

It's baffling to me that this book had Starfire forget about the rules of her powers? Like, she hosts each birthday outside to see if Mandy would unlock them, but she knows they're powered by her emotions? Why wouldn't she be focussing on emotion training?

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

Because the author doesn’t actually know that

[@cahunter9929]

@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 that'd make sense if it wasn't for the circumstances Mandy got them in unless it was sheer goddamn coincidence

[@BackLineXProductions]

Its possible a concern could be that since she hadn't awakened them yet, that Star was concerned that because her father is most likely human that something else may trigger her powers. Star was using hers a kid, so Mandy not showing any signs of having powers since birth, it makes sense that Star would try various things to attempt activate them, even things outside the norm for her own.

[@irrevenant8724]

Starfire isn't powered by emotions, though? Emotions may be a factor, but she absorbs and channels solar radiation. Also this isn't set in the canon DC universe, so it doesn't necessarily work exactly the same way, anyway.

[@marhawkman303]

@@irrevenant8724 yeah the author of this change the in-universe lore... a LOT... seemingly forcing the in-universe lore to fit the story and not the other way around... massive red flag for the writer. Anything they write CAN'T be canon because of how much it changes stuff. for example... in this universe Starfire has been on Earth 18 years or more? But barely speaks English? wut?

[@lyndsaybrown8471]

That is a lot...kinda seems like Starfire was trying her best to give Mandy a normal human life, but was also hoping Mandy would develop powers because then she would have something to teach her.

[@Ektalon]

And it was inside us all along . . .

[@Bezaliel13]

Or she knows a few supers that had scary experiences awakening their powers.

[@ericmangum4058]

I feel like she was raising her the best she could do as a human person, but didnt know how to do it , like when she said its what you do at your age you go to school and then go to another school , like she dosent grasp why but she knows its important

[@joelponder6563]

Or they would finally have something in common.

[@marhawkman303]

@@ericmangum4058 that feels weak to me because the concept of school isn't alien to Koriand'r. She might not know all the specifics, but she'd at least understand the basics.

[@PhoenixAgent003]

The more I learned about Mandy, the more I thought, “God, she sounds so stupidly insecure and self-obsessed…which sounds like literally every teenager. Oh God, do I hate teenagers now? Am I old?!”

[@damianolanzoni9583]

No, it's just that growing up you realize that most of the things that made you angry when you were a teenager are stupid, so you get angry because you realize you wasted time and energy on stupid things.

[@Hysterically_Accurate]

Good, good. Let the hate flow through you.

[@Touriquette]

You've matured and realized how petty teenagers can be thats a sign of grow, congrats and don't let it get to your head.

[@AlgaeNymph]

Don't worry, I hated teenagers when _I_ was a teenager.

[@simonchen5284]

I started hating teenagers when I was a kid still do even though i am one😅

[@Obi-Wan_Kenobi]

It's hilarious that literally no one even remembers or cares about this book 1 year later. And honestly, that's a good thing. Bad media deserves to be forgotten.

[@megamillion5852]

Actually, Master Obi-Wan, the presence of bad media allows us to better examine how to create better media. I wouldn't deal in absolutes, that could lead to something insidious...

[@gothnerd887]

​@@megamillion5852I agree, and with that wisdom I hope to create a better goth character someday

[@axln1723]

@@gothnerd887you could create a better goth character now

[@austinharvey7644]

So stop bringing it up then!!!!

[@itsjustjk5065]

I'm also under the impression that Starfire would've disseminated information about her origins and adventures through storytelling throughout Mandy's life. Given her nature, it doesn't seem realistic that that moment would've been the 1st time Mandy had heard about where her mom is from... 😅

[@sakulaeyr9819]

What this entire comic lacks is a "Mother and Daughter relationship." Mandy behaves the same way many teenagers do when they're adopted into a new household. Which is what I assumed would be the big twist at the end (that she was her niece not daughter)...

[@TeganThrussell]

@@sakulaeyr9819 that would have been great! If Mandy was actually related to Blackfire, who didn't want her because she didn't have powers (and she might see that as a physical disability, and being the bitch she is would resent that) and sent her to live with Starfire, until suddenly she does develop powers, and the conflict could have been Mandy learning to appreciate what Star did to try and be a mother, without a partner or experience, and fighting for her right to stay with the woman that raised her, instead of being dragged away with her biological mother. Hell, could have even been a subtle commentary on the shit show that is the foster system, where parents have the right to their children, regardless of how bad they are, and the mental toll that takes on children who are only taking back when it suits their parents, then discarded when they become inconvenient. I would have loved that! The book would have actually had a message, and would have related to so many kids in foster care on a much deeper level than "my mum is so lame and feminine, and keeps trying to talk to me, and set me up for a good career so I don't starve to death on the streets! My life is so hard!"

[@anib8863]

@@TeganThrussell Why didn't you write the damn thing??? That sounds GREAT! Hell, I might do something with that idea.

[@fenris5932]

Imagine being a kid and never asking "Hey mom, why are you orange with green glowing eyes and why do we have super strength and laser eyes?"

[@justin09756]

I honestly am more surprised about this because in all media I have seen Starfire is VERY open about being Tamaranian, and especially being super famous as she is supposed to be, literally everyone would know she is an alien and that her powers are normal for her species. And even under the assumption that Mandy might be the only human/alien hybrid in that world, which i highly doubt considering the Justice League's main group alone is comprised of at least two aliens, three if my memory about Hawk Girl being an alien species is correct, plus two different members of the Green Lantern Corps, and Superboy would likely still be a thing. Not to mention Demigods with Diana and half-demon-god children with Raven. Maybe this is supposed to be one of those threads you try not to look at..

[@bm1747]

And this is why teens in YA fiction are often written as if they're a decade older. Kids this age do not always act rationally. It's realistic, but not narratively satisfying.

[@garbledsand-which2321]

@Sniper Penguin Funny story. I used to hate Shinji...now though...inspite his bad crap he does. I see him for what his...a kid in over his head. Then when I think of myself and other's who hate him...it makes me think of how in real life. People don't allow kid's to be kid's.

[@genericweeb7300]

@@garbledsand-which2321 There's an almost similar character to Shinji named Mitsuzane in the superhero show "Kamen Rider Gaim" from 2016. People also found him annoying during the show's original run but over the years has developed an appreciation for what he really was: a pretty good "realistic" teenager in a fantasy sci-fi setting.

[@artmoryoo]

I think that characters can be written like kids/teens and the story can work, it just depends on how it's written. I feel like some try to capture that despite being disconnected from that age group which makes it fail. Obviously, it might not be 100% accurate as to how the age group acts or with the additon of fictional elements, but you can come close especially in the sentiments and feelings. The Percy Jackson series is an excellent example imo, so did Steven Universe. I know some people found younger Steven annoying, but to me he felt like a kind, silly kid who acts like a kid (that isnt to say that the story was flawless lol) ok this comment was longish but I hope it got my point across lol

[@sarilchowdhury3955]

Yes but also they didn't portray the already adult and such characters that have been seen before are inaccurate. Also it's very cringy. Like you can make a teen character be annoying and even make irrational decisions or say bad shit that makes you mad at them and still not make me you cringe into your soul

[@GeteMachine]

I feel like the problem is that older readers don't seem to accept that young teen characters can be angsty and immature without it necessarily being character definitive. People just seem to see characters like this and act like they're awful only because they're immature, for their age. Yet the subject matter of the book at least would be relatable, even if its execution left a lot to be desired, but at the same time its only an interpretation of a subjective theme.

[@mikhailkessery8961]

With the Titans thing, I know it’s like a tiny tiny detail but even if nightwing isn’t the dad, I’m sure he’d still step in as a father figure. Like he’s the leader and a detective, surely he’d see that star fire is struggling and Mandy needs a father figure in her life

[@Axl4325]

He would find the father (if it wasn`t him) or act as a surrogate dad for the appreciation he has for Starfire and just out of being a hero/decent person. So yeah, that felt weird. Someone suggested he could`ve been the "Dad who is never home" and that would`ve been a lot better for me

[@nathanieldaiken1064]

The story is told from Mandy's point of view, so even if Nightwing was around, but out at night on patrol, it looks like he is absent.

[@TheLikenessOfNormal]

@@Axl4325 Honestly even if Nightwing is the Dad I doubt he can stand his daughter enough to be around her. Think about the shit he was dealing with at her age, his parents brutally murdered by gangsters in gotham, working as a child at a circus and then as a child soldier for a deranged bat-themed billionaire WHO LOCKED HIM IN A PITCH BLACK ROOM AND MADE HIM EAT RATS TO SURVIVE. Do you think he, let alone any of the Titans who went through just as much trauma as he did would actually manage to give her more then a week before they just said "fuck it, I hate her." If it wasn't for how clueless the author was I'd think that was the reason why the titans are absent from Starfire's life, is cause they just *can't* stand the spoiled bitch that her daughter became.

[@lick28]

@@TheLikenessOfNormal imagine being able to do all that and an emo child is enough to make you give up. What a fucking embarrassment.

[@irrevenant8724]

Dick knows Starfire far too well to assume that she needs a 'father figure' to raise her kid. I'm sure he's around for support if she needs it, just like the rest of the Titans but he's hardly going to step into a father role uninvited.

[@artemisameretsu6905]

I'm just saying the aunt who was literally passed over by her country because she didn't develop powers fast enough would probably have been an excellent bonding moment with the villain and the story could have been so much more cool where Mandy gets coaxed over to Blackfire who is using her to secure the thrown by making Mandy HER heir. Like Mandy could have come around to realizing that her aunt was nuts, saved her mom and then realized that she had let her negative bottled up emotions lead her down a destructive path. Also the fact that Raven didn't even get a scene where she gives the typical "You can't let your emotions rule you" line is a fucking crime

[@jauneork278]

Wait she beat Blackfire? That should be? Literally impossible upon just discovering your powers.

[@Darkgun231]

Right? A better story would have been Mandy never getting any powers but coming to love herself and realize she can do what she wants without them.

[@sabrexi7228]

Would’ve been better if Starfire significantly weakened Blackfire, and it was still a tough battle that Starfire had to intervene at times

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

Mary suUuUuUuUuUeee

[@ultraboombean]

This is wish fulfillment me guess.

[@aphelion4616]

Yes, the Marry Sued, or Reyed her as I like to call it.

[@AngryMothNoises]

Honestly, the fact they DIDN'T use Raven as an in-between for Mandy and Starfire is just... It really highlights the lack of writing ability and understanding as characters them self. Raven could have so easily be used as that 'cool aunt like figure who understands Mandy more' and tries to help Mandy with someone who might be more like her for someone to relate to emotionally and give her confidence. While Raven could also be the gate way for Starfire to understand her own daughter to help bridge the two of them together. Also, the fact that Mandy is never seen thinking about her dad??? Not realistic if you ever see a teen who is being raised by a single parent and the depression/anxiety that comes with it. Both could relate to their family issues too.

[@allen6187]

I agree! There’s a whole Teen Titans episode where Raven and Starfire trade bodies for a day, which allows them to get to know and accept each other more. Obviously, I don’t think this comic should have done exactly that, but the writing didn’t really make use of the existing characters as well as they could have. For one, I really struggle to see Starfire as being as disconnected as she is from her daughter, and like you said, it would have helped the narrative a ton to have other Titans, like Raven, present in Mandy’s life. To an extent, it’s understandable to keep her separated from the superhero life: Starfire likely wants to give Mandy the normal childhood that she couldn’t have. However, this idea is also kind of undermined by the fact that Starfire still willingly put Mandy in the spotlight while keeping her hero life completely separated. It just ended up feeling like Mandy had to “earn” learning about her mom’s hero life, since Starfire seemingly didn’t mind putting her daughter in the spotlight. Idk, I think my problem with the comic is that there are a lot of little moments that add up to something that just doesn’t feel like it fits within even an alternate version of these characters. And it doesn’t help that even the original characters tend to be very one dimensional, so everyone feels just a bit off / incomplete, which is unfortunate. I think the idea was a solid one, but the writer just didn’t quite pull off the execution. The controversy before it came out definitely didn’t help 😓

[@a-shadow-in-the-soul]

Without having read it yet, I feel it almost work better if Mandy was adopted, and the struggle she has in being “normal” when the world around her is everything but, and then finally coming to accept that she is good enough just being herself.

[@bacht4799]

I have thought about a indie comic where it’s a story about a narcissist superhero who wants a child with the power that character have plus more but instead got a overweight gay daughter instead without superhero powers and how the hate and torture from the narcissist parent and the negativ things comes from that.. and how it’s former our poor girl.. and then she maybe found out she got superpowers through hard work or something else but she got it but what now should she tell or not and what would happen then ..

[@RaiiSkaii]

@@bacht4799 mmm makes me think of a plot for a deku fanfic with a villain hisashi (his dad)

[@bubblegumblue5304]

Honestly the whole comic was fine until Blackfire came and Mandy got powers. Felt like it shitted on the entire point of the comic. It was like all of her problems magically got solved as soon as she got powers.

[@channelrandom2225]

I agree

[@taigatanfan_]

Yes!! This is what I’ve been saying the entire time. Not even needing to be adopted but just that she simply didn’t have any power, and in a family of those who have, it shouldn’t hold her back.

[@zeeke.tv_4842]

Beast boy being a different animal all the time is hilarious to me

[@StopWhiningManguideCultists]

It's beast now. Remember this story doesn't want any guys to be important

[@frappompi]

But there's already a Marvel character called Beast

[@Dumbass4444]

@@frappompiwhich is ironic and funny cause morph from the xmen is based off a character named changeling but they changed his name because beast boy used to go by that

[@quinny8216]

as a teen, i can confidently that the “run forest run” line was the most accurate thing in this entire story

[@theworldsmostforgottentown]

Hell, even after high school it's an accurate experience if you're running anywhere

[@litrpg101]

It's just a really fuckin' famous line.

[@simpletown323]

yep its a meme at this point. more famous than the movie its from

[@SieMiezekatze]

I say this everytime I run

[@mauroc1896]

I agree, in hs we had to watch it for a test (history class), and for several of us it was the first time watching it. I can tell you we were quoting it over and over after that. When we catched another class watching it like 7 of my classmates quoted one of the dialogues at the exact timing. Not to mention i'm south american and watched the movie dubbed

[@blobbertmcblob4888]

"I am not Starfire" Well...me neither. Nobody but Starfire is Starfire.

[@phillewis2630]

and King Shark is a shark

[@somedud2639]

And former president Barrack Obama is a former president

[@TheBuzzard42]

"I am Gandalf! And Gandalf means... me!"

[@angelb33ts]

😂😂

[@pam-chi8409]

“France don't have superheroes!” Ladybug and cat noir: Are we a joke to you?

[@pam-chi8409]

@Mona Bruh....

[@killerbean4833]

@Mona But they have rabbids, and they can Dance!

[@maryamahmad4733]

@Mona you ok? did france hurt you?

[@mayomuslim5855]

i love how you can tell that the author actually hates Starfire because she is beautiful and bubbly 💀

[@brains7942]

Women hating on other women out of jealousy. Toxic

[@itskitty808]

Typical and cliché ugly girl jealousy. As someone who experienced bullying for being the "pretty friend", it's very jarring. You start to purposely make yourself ugly in order to feel accepted by your jealous friends. It's a sad premise, but it's the reality.

[@michaelrichards5340]

I thought I was the only one seeing this, because, as an artist also I use visual cue to express characters, my first issue with this was she saying Mandy wants to be the opposite of her mother, I was like cool, why? The video started to explain the visual differences and that's when I started to feel uncomfortable because I started to feel like what they are saying is a woman that is beautiful, colorful, popular and based on the art, voluptuous is bad and we should root for Mandy the big body emo girl... Which is fine but I don't find anything wrong with both women. If I wanted to make Starfire daughter be the opposite of her, what I'd do is make use of Starfire cheerful helpful personality, make her want her daughter to be happy by indirectly forcing her to look pretty, well groomed and lady like, slim etc but she will think she's helping and not realise she's overbearing... Then it would make sense why Mandy rebels that way visually without insulting some of the female population.. Sheesh... You'd think as a writer she would write characters and not objects with ideas on them

[@aaronmccloskey7108]

@@michaelrichards5340 i think the reason for wanting to be an "anti-starfire" was a hatred at not being like her. People keep making it about powers or as suggested here her body but i think it far more than just that. She see her mom dating, see her surrounded by friends, the constant complements, the fame, the fortune, see's her mess up and charmingly just dismiss it and Star obviously hid the backstory of Tamaran and it seems her very reason to be on earth which takes out a majority of the negativity in her life. She seemed perfect or a mary-sue if you will and Mandy was worried, that being her mother, that's what she'd be compared to her entire life and she "ran/gaveup" before it started like she did during the test. summary: It's Helga and Olga from hey, Arnold only told as a mother/daughter story instead of sisters.

[@irrevenant3]

@@itskitty808 Sadly lots of people bully for lots of reasons. It's a sad indictment on humanity that we'll bully people equally for being 'too pretty' as for being 'not pretty enough'. -_-

[@Sheren_chandra]

I think the story will be accepted more if it was about a shy girl with anxiety and the pressure of people expecting her to be just like her mother is stressing her out and the novel is just about her finding herself and embracing her true self

[@base21]

That's been done to death though

[@Sheren_chandra]

@@base21 its just easier to accept tho

[@matildamansfield6925]

i think thats what they are going for kinda its just done very cliche and the book would have flown under the radar if it wasnt for everyone kicking up a stink about it

[@saraannriiko]

Exactly. Mandy is just so unlikable but yet she gets everything she wants without lifting a finger to get it.

[@S1RW01FY]

@@base21every version of “be yourself” has been done to death tho. Like every possible version

[@ExiILe00]

I’d like to think not being Starfire was the friends we made along the way.

[@JamesSerapio]

Almost anyone with an appreciation for Range Murata is okay in my books.

[@laurabeane8862]

Same thing about never being as popular as PewDie Pie 👍

[@danielsantos-wh2op]

This kinda is the message of the book now that I’m thinking about it kkkkk

[@nox6687]

As someone who was in high school a relatively short time ago, we did have papers where we had to analyze books for themes and explain why they're universal but those were all solo. Our group works were all sitting around a table, breaking down every piece of imagery in a paragraph to try and understand what the hell they meant.

[@outrunthestars4938]

Oof. That sucks

[@kamilee4123]

Sounds like my AP Lit class lol

[@anders8461]

LoL i got the same assignment but instead we have to write a synopsis from a popular novel

[@chickpea]

In my country we did have group ones, but they were few and always ended up on an oral presentation

[@TinaTissue28]

That was the same for me and I graduated over 10 years ago (god I'm old)

[@yunakenkoi]

Also, I get why Mandy isn’t interested in college because debt is terrible but her mother is a superhero, and from what the house/rooms/etc all look like it appears that Mandy is pretty well off financially? I don’t know if it’s discussed that she isn’t. I’m guessing but it would be nice if she didn’t want to go to college because she wanted to do something else, go to trade school, or maybe she could have an idol who never went to school and wanted to take from that.

[@alejandrocervantes3624]

Also, Starfire wouldnt make her daugther take the SATs, Starfire would take her daugther to SPACE FRANCE!

[@TeryJones]

Conveniently right next to Space Australia....

[@Bladez10]

Huh, a cosmic road trip of sorts? I'd be down for that.

[@theonlychickensama8353]

@@TeryJones about time we saw some more of our favorite red space Australian

[@kyvilfongkot6372]

I read that as SPACE MARINES

[@josephperez2004]

@@theonlychickensama8353 Wait, we're going to H.F.I.L.?

[@pitpat2928]

as someone who hasn’t read this and loves fanfic, the more you spoke on starfire’s characterization (or lack thereof) i gotta agree with the “its basically fanfiction (derogatory)” argument despite it obviously coming up for not great reasons. On fic sites like AO3 you can just tag the work/characters as OOC and go to town, but for an official published work, (even in the elsewhere space) it’s kinda irresponsible (?) for the pretty basic story to prop itself up on Starfire’s notoriety without rlly paying respect to her. The author couldve replaced known characters with original ones and gotten the same message across, and probably had a better received comic for it as well.

[@Dark.Shingo]

THIS. So much this. Having read the author's interview and then read the comic feels like she honestly has NO idea who the character is besides the basics.

[@TheLikenessOfNormal]

Yeah like honestly it kinda seems to me like the moment Mandy started *being* Mandy that Starfire would've taken her to meet her old titan comrades and had them share the stories of their fucked up traumatic lives with her so that she gets some type of fucking self awareness that her selfish laziness and casual spite are the cause of all of her own problems and that *other* people she constantly judges and swear at have to deal with shit *not of their own making.* Like Mandy is the comic book equivalent of that meme of the guy sticking a stick in his own bike tire. And honestly with obesity as one of the number one health problems in the world and one of the biggest risk factors for getting infected by the coof, *maybe* just *maybe* the time of fat acceptance and the whole *you're beautiful at 400lbs* thing takes a little rest. Like being shamed sucks, but as someone who is fat and is finally dieting and losing weight and shit after a lifetime of it just trending upwards, I mighta had more portion control if I had been shamed for eating like a fucking pig. And her bit about not wanting to take exams because of college debt. Like bitch your in a 2 family household and at least one of your parents has saved the world multiple times. Your not gonna be in crushing debt. I grew up poor as shit, and developing severe depression in the middle of high school was not helped by the sobering knowledge and realization that I didn't have a college fund and I could physically not get enough scholarships and grants to attend any of the high level institutes that my pre-depression grades would've guaranteed me entrance to without me going into *actual* crippling debt. Hard to try hard when you know your only option is gonna be community college no matter what you do. Like her attitude would somewhat make sense if her father was like a trucker working 18 hours a day always away from home and her mom worked full-time so that they could make ends-meat (with her size they'd have to make a fair bit for her to get that big and stay that big with any type of daily activity.) Show her having a hard time doing regular shit with people because her feet are killing her.

[@summerbridges582]

I completely agree and I think that is the main problem of this work!! I absolutely love the other graphic novel "Laura Dean keeps Breaking up with me" and I hated this one because I feel like they just tried to use the DC brand and characters to sell it.

[@marhawkman303]

@@Dark.Shingo Yeah, doesn't seem to have even read a wiki to learn the basics of the fictional setting either. the story premise is interesting... but while some story beats ring true in an emotional way.... that angst is the only part of the story that does.

[@hardcoreking52]

To me it seems more like the author feels insecure compared to Starfire and used this comic to depict her negatively.

[@matman329]

I didn't like this book.I didn't like Mandy as a character, to me she came across as too bitchy. As someone who isn't the biggest fan of starfire, i didn't like the way they treated her in the book.the art style is kinda hit or miss for me through out the book.

[@whizz_0711]

And she was only salty because she didn’t have powers. I refuse to believe how she suddenly became happy after she got her powers like an on off switch

[@FreyaEinde]

Yeah de-powered kid version of a super parent is not my favorite trope in the book but I can definitely see how it appeals to kids who feel at odds with their own parents identities and expectations for them. Ya know the standard parents just don’t understand story but cranked to the extreme. But ya know in superhero comics every version always exists all the time somewhere.

[@Nitosa]

Maybe im too dense, but whats the underlying point of the story? Like yeah its cute but the substance is really shallow. She didn't become a better person even with the powers or tries to better herself to stand out to her mother. Or any kind of character development. Like she has no redeeming qualities or redemption and she just got her resolution in her genes which is like being born with a rich family who only give her allowance after 16 or something.

[@matman329]

@@Nitosa i dont think there was a point beside ,i think , family.

[@Nitosa]

@@matman329 yea i guess my expectations were too high.... Even if they were so low underground that i can use it to limbo with the devil. You know what i think i meant hopeful.

[@nunyabusiness8000]

I really like how mature you where with this entire review. You voiced criticisms without being sanitized and boring but where also never mean spirited. You painted the other viewpoints in way that is easily understood. I personally don’t like the book or it’s characterization, but also admit that the vitriol around the book feels opportunistic and reactionary. It’s not for me or a lot of people is what I’ll leave it at.

[@batsight1]

21:36 With how Raven is depicted how the hell did Mandy not immediately attract to Raven as a substitute mother figure.

[@leephillips4402]

I feel like the book had to downplay Raven as much as possible because her dynamic with Starfire makes Mandy redundant.

[@traesmith9822]

I understand the intent of using the prototypical affable bombshell character Starfire to juxtapose with a more 'realistic' woman. But the Mandy character felt stereotypical too instead of realistic. I feel like there was a better way to do this but what do I know I'm not even the audience

[@maddiemaccheese8170]

I agree! As a former teenage girl and a current fat girl, it's honestly kind of sad they couldn't do something better with this character and story. Mandy's just portrayed as a moody jerk who's rude to people for seemingly no reason. Teens are angsty, but why couldn't they have made her somewhat likable? If the author was trying to go the whole "representation" route, which I'm sure she was, why make an unlikeable character with very few redeeming qualities? She's a walking stereotype of teenage loner girls that's really offputting. I may not relate to her aesthetics or attitude but know plenty of people like her, and the vast majority aren't entitled jerks 100% of the time. Idk, this whole thing just doesn't make sense to me either.

[@kuddlecat]

@@maddiemaccheese8170 someone in another video proposed that's she should've been written like Scott Pilgrim. An asshole that's aware of their behavior and as the story progresses they become better 👀

[@pathetic2399]

Both characters are "realistic" and "stereotypical".

[@maddiemaccheese8170]

@@kuddlecat Honestly that's a good idea

[@nivorann]

Finally, an analysis/rant that isn't mostly about Mandy's appearence.

[@JFrom843]

Mandy's appearance doesn't take away anything from the story. It's still shit lmao

[@nivorann]

@@JFrom843 Exactly. I'm trying to say that people unnecessarily rant too much about Mandy's appearence despite the fact that there are way bigger things to talk about, like the writing.

[@JFrom843]

@@nivorann yeah. The story is overall boring, the biggest sin of being a comic artist.

[@skinflutey]

@@JFrom843 her Casey and April TMNT mini series was extremely boring too with bad art to boot.

[@JFrom843]

@@skinflutey a boring story and a bad art style seem to be constant with her stories

[@alli4534]

With the "Starfire has lived there for so long why not try to learn Earth things?" as a kid who has immigrant parents who didn't really try to understand my culture and instead forced me to cross the bridge and learn their culture and their language, I can kinda excuse Starfire.

[@CatacombD]

Hearing the plot just makes me realize how the movie "Sky High" did teenage super heroes so much better. It also is interesting that in both this comic and in Sky High, the story gets a bit less interesting after the main teen develops powers.

[@elijahwatson3474]

At least the main character in sky high was better

[@alexbennet4195]

Sky High's the one about eugenics, right?

[@someotherworldlybeing3167]

@@alexbennet4195 oh god

[@AdamOfIngolstadt]

So young justice but without the therapy episode.

[@Mr.Monacle]

@@alexbennet4195 Not… intentionally? But a little bit, yeah.

[@coconutthecockatiel478]

Damn right fanfiction is nuanced as hell. From an outsider’s perspective, I can see how someone wouldn’t get that, but as someone who’s been writing it for nearly two years… holy shit. There’s such a fine line between respecting the source material and being original, and staying true to the characters but still making them a little bit your own, and doing what *you* want but trying to appease everyone else. It’s… it really can be like writing an actual book. And you would not _believe_ how stressful it gets

[@AdamOfIngolstadt]

I spend a lot of time making sure my teenage characters act and speak and think like real people. I am 16 and the cringe teenage characters in mainstream fiction need me

[@horatiomiller7386]

@@AdamOfIngolstadt why are you like this?

[@beretaniastreet6384]

@@horatiomiller7386 Why does she want to write non-cringey teen characters?

[@jamieadams2589]

Fantiction has a lot of downfalls yeah, that's why msot of it sucks

[@coconutthecockatiel478]

@@jamieadams2589 Some of it can be bad, that's true, but far from _most_ of it sucks. That's really not fair to anyone to make such a broad claim, especially because almost everyone who writes it pours so much of themselves into their work. That's like reading a few crappy books and saying "Most books suck."

[@jamcalx]

Black Fire: Witness me, MEER MORTALS! For I'm an EXCEPTIONAL MORTAL! Random bystander: But you're still mortal! *gets vaporized*

[@eddyviews1427]

Just like how the writers of the recent mortal Kombat game where Shao Khan is describe to be a mortal... which he's a god actually. That adds my list of confusing disconnected quotes

[@yannym4605]

Vampires are mortal yet they have a tendency of referring to humans as mortals. It's a trope where mortals with a sense of superiority over other mortals have a tendency of referring to other mortals as "mere mortals". Vampires don't age you might say. I can't remember the name, but there is a species of animal out there that doesn't age either. They can still be killed. If you can die, you're mortal. That's the only requirement.

[@RaxusXeronos]

@@yannym4605 An even more fitting one would be the race the kais (gods) in Dragon Ball are part of. Specifically Zamasu from Dragon Ball Super, constantly belittling mortals on his conquest to genocide them. The thing is the Shinjin (their race) is mortal both in that they can be killed and in that they actually have a finite lifespan. It's ridiculously long (in the tens of thousands of years) but they do grow old and pass away.

[@Sephiroth144]

@@yannym4605 Yeah, but eternal doesn't have the same ring to it, (nor an easy counterpoint, i.e., mortal/immortal). Not to mention, "effective" immortal does apply- I mean, to a fruit fly, humans are effectively immortal. Flip that on its head, and there ya go.

[@m.c.gargamel7736]

The plottwist of the century would be if she ended up being Blackfire's daughter that Starfire adopted.

[@Lunar_willoww]

That would've made the comic so much sadder... now I kinda wish it was part of the story.

[@mitchellphillips9166]

I have a gripe about how she isn’t taught her culture at all outside of having powers: her people did things they made infrastructure, made food, and that she is technically a princess. The human thing is understandable, but all her history as a member of a species with history and customs and Mandy rejecting them till the final act would make the conclusion less divisive. (Especially if she was hinted to be taught her native martial art[Nightwing exist it’s not an argument that you need powers].)

[@marhawkman303]

also the few bits of Tamaranean culture the writer does use are.... weirdly re-worked. In most tellings Tamaraneans start developing their powers as children. But here it's some rite of passage that defines when you become an adult? And so on.....

[@lightingmcqueen522]

Omni man reads “I’m not star fire” : “Mark we need to talk”

[@falconeshield]

"I'd loved you more if you never developed powers."

[@shadzmunisworthless765]

"I will down this planet down before I spent another minute living among these animals" touche Omni-man touche

[@AJZulu]

"Chubby Raven is disguise" I burst into laughter...

[@claudia-uy5gk]

HAHA

[@Hans-andersen]

Raven is the father....how did we not see it?!

[@drinkwaterreminderformenot919]

@@Hans-andersen probably concieved using ravens tentacles lol

[@onionrangerduck7024]

I just finished it. One thing i noticed is that the title is "I'm not Starfire", and at the end, she become Starfire Jr... She cured inconfidence by getting an alien superpower hack rather than actually realizing what type of person she wanted to be...

[@KrisKrisKrissy]

I remember seeing this comic around the internet and just being really confused about its existence. The draw, the thing that will get people to look at it is Starfire in the title. So it's drawing Starfire fans, but the protagonist, who we're meant to relate to, is her angsty, resentful teen daughter who wants nothing to do with her? There's a big disconnect there.

[@Siathuan]

Brings to mind the period where Marvel nailed Wolverine onto every cover they could, even in stories where he didn't even feature in a single panel. Which would have been tolerable if he'd been in the background, simply a consistent feature or hidden easter egg, but when he takes up the entire cover, yet not a single frame in the story? Way to disappoint your customers.

[@irrevenant8724]

The contrast is the *point* of the story. It's the story of an ordinary, overweight teenage girl struggling with growing up under the expectations of being the child of a constantly happy, beloved, supermodel superhero. The draw is "what must be it like to grow up as an ordinary person under the shadow of a parent like that?".

[@darianstarfrog]

@@irrevenant8724 as it's spitting in the face of lore and general respect for the source material.. it's a terrible self insert from a gross troll..

[@royallytrashy2302]

I’m honestly glad to find a review that isn’t agitated rants about a character’s appearance

[@ScythGrizz]

Wasn’t that basically Critcal Drinkers video on the comic when it got announced?

[@weetdoog]

or only saying that it's "woke" and a self insert

[@dt5101961Nelon]

I haven't seen any review that rants about the character's appearance.

[@ghostpotato6260]

@@weetdoog I mean it is tho

[@zandaroos553]

@@ScythGrizz Critical Drinker thinks everything is too woke and pretentious. If “hoes mad” was a person it would be CD

[@MegaChickenfish]

Reinventing characters _can_ be interesting, I read one at the library called Teen Titans: Raven by Kami Garcia and Gabriel Picolo. A different take on Raven, but one I really related to. It's not about whether a work portrays characters different than how I'm used to so much as whether it's done *well.*

[@LilKingler]

I really love Gabriel Picolo's version of all the Titans honestly! was so happy when he started working with DC officially.

[@deaf-tomcat]

oohi love Gabriel!!

[@rainpuppies]

I have their beast boy book I love it so much

[@gretchenlitwiler2444]

I adore Kami Garcia and Gabriel Picolos work

[@smugalice6206]

I’m outside the target demo, but Gabriel’s art is beautiful.

[@zariahAwashere]

It would've been great to see Mandy's insecurities being a "normal kid" ALONGSIDE the Titans, instead of the weird cameo. There's no way they wouldn't be a found family for her the way they were for Starfire. Mandy could've had so much development as a character through her relationships with either of them. It would've been so cool seeing Nightwing as a pseudo-dad/big brother figure, maybe he'd open up about comparison to Batman. I can absolutely see him sparring with Mandy to help her feel "super" in her own way, helping her build confidence to stand up to her bullies and for other kids. She and Raven could've been great friends. I can see Raven being the one Mandy went to often growing up as another mom/big sis figure, and maybe she borrows her aesthetic from her. They could read together, maybe Mandy gets into witchy things/witchcraft and does tarot readings for her (different kinds of magic, but Raven would probably find it entertaining). I'd like to see Raven helping her with anxiety through things like meditation, as she'd dealt with a lot of anxiety/PTSD in the past. I imagine Cyborg, BB and Nightwing are the ones who talked Starfire into letting her go to a public school, so they could have the shot at "normal growing up life" that they didn't, especially since she doesn't have powers. So much wasted potential 😭

[@pumpernickelstickybottoms5081]

I think people missed a small important-ish moment - Mandy adds a "the" before not making fun of her mom's broken english when Starfire tells her its what responsible parents do. I when i was younger and would get into arguments with my parents, i'd be insensitive and do things like that too and they told me it was extremely hurtful to them. Its an example of trying to alienate your parents in a cruel way when you feel they can't understand you due to a cultural gap.

[@TheBlaqSpiderman]

Well, the main lesson is: despise yourself and be an arse to everyone you're around even if they are trying to be helpful until you get super powers which somehow reverse all of it

[@alexcinx]

Yeah pretty much

[@luckyupnext]

Yep😁👌 stay toxic

[@sakulaeyr9819]

2021: "Stay Toxic, Get Superpowers!"

[@TheBlaqSpiderman]

The author of Mandy: *STOMP STOMP CLAP* SHE WILL, SHE WILL DISAPPOINT YOU

[@WrensthavAviovus]

Didn't Megamind try this and it ended up the new hero became a worse villain than himself?

[@bensneb360]

Sasha is one of the most “fair” reviewer’s on KZbin. She shows both sides opinion and why they might think that, is very non bias in her opinions and let’s the work speak for itself, and always makes the videos entertaining. Thanks Sasha, keep up the good work.

[@briannalee1998]

I agree! Many people who covered this were extremely biased and not impartial at all. To be honest, I didn’t like this book, I thought Mandy was too mean and it wasn’t my cup of tea, but it is OKAY for people to like it. Everyone views the world and art differently. Views shaped by their own experiences. That’s why everyone has their own opinions and interpretations of stories

[@dragonsmith9012]

Being unbiased and impartial is what we want from a judge in a court of law. Graphic novels are judged by the artwork, the story, and how well they fit in to the established lore. You can already get a sense of all three by the promotional material and the fact that the MC resembles the author.

[@danielsantos-wh2op]

@@dragonsmith9012 the art work is beautifully, the story is solid and fits as a one of, and it is a non canon adventure. It was an interesting history with good things that can be explored on other titles. The fight scenes are bad, but the rest is pretty good. It remembered me of acception.

[@ryllharu]

I feel the same, that's why I keep watching.

[@dragonsmith9012]

@@danielsantos-wh2op I couldn't disagree more, but it's your time and money. Good for you. I really mean that.

[@WanRa28]

What made me hate this comic was the moral: be an annoying brat, learn nothing from your mistakes, and everything will fall on your lap. Mandy treats everyone badly? Everyone still loves her. Has a crush on someone? That someone reciprocate from the get go, and doesn't matter how badly the protagonist treat her, she will always remain infatuated with Mandy. Hates the mother for having superpowers while she doesn't? She gets superpowers. Damn, she even defeated a opponent who bested her mother easily, someone who had those powers for decades.

[@rrtkddigimon0]

"There's no superheroes in France." I cannot express just how _United States of American_ that statement is. Regardless whether she's right or wrong in-universe. But if she is wrong, it is *SUCH* a funny line to me... because few people I know can be as _confident_ and as _wrong_ as native-English speakers. I have watched a middle aged man in Shark Tank try to say that he INVENTED a tool to make holes in coconuts, so you can drink straight from the coconut... But I am from *Brazil* . Those things are older than my grandparents. They've been around since before the dictatorship... and yet, the man kept acting like he would "disturb the system with his revolutionary contraption." So the idea of Mandy being 100% sure there are no superheroes in France and the French supers being "Qu'est que c'est?" is hillarious. Seeing that bit in the video softened severely my impression of Mandy. Because if she's right... she's a teenager with bagage dreaming of running away to France. But if she's WRONG... she's a teenager with bagage dreaming of running away to France as if being in France could solve all of your problems... when it really really really would *not.* 😂 And THAT, I feel, is a super entitled teenager thing right there. But in a "normal teen" kinda way, really fitting of her "rebelious teen" persona.

[@blitzie66]

best comment

[@hope3290]

The fact that she could have picked any remote place on Earth that may actually not have superheroes and she picks France??? Like what? It's truly baffling.

[@rrtkddigimon0]

@@hope3290 It's like... France is sometimes an idealized place, where people _not_ from France assume it's the best place in the world... Happens to plenty of places. And either when people actually go to one of those places... or metaphorically _grow up_ and realize that it is _A PLACE_ , and that as long as it is _a PLACE_ , there will be pros and cons... So a lot of teenagers put SOME places on pedestals. Many people I know used to idealize Japan (myself included 😅) But the fact that hers is seemingly France... one of *THE* most advertised tourist destinations in Europe and the World... is just _so United States of American_ to me... [Note: I say United States of America / United States of American because... the *continent* is called America. I am an American from Brazil just like an Asian can be from Mongolia, Russia, Iraq, or anywhere within Asia. So it doesn't sit well to only call people from the United States "Americans." As if the people from Chile, Panama, Jamaica, etc. aren't _REAL Americans_ .]

[@lelnel6242]

I am a Wally West fan and as a fan I know Wally was part of the Justice league of Eruope(since it was severely underpaid), and now we have Justice leauge of China... Yeah, hun, Superheroes do exist in France.

[@diamondplums503]

Ladybug would like to have a talk

[@GenerationWest]

First time seeing this book months ago, I knew the exact plotline from Mandy's design alone, and that's fine, but it would be a surprise if she wasn't a sullen killjoy to interact with. Now that you mention the lack of a father acknowledgment, because they never said who the father is, because it's clear that Mandy either inherited her mysterious father's somehow powerful genes, or a lot of recessive genes in this genetic lottery. She's much shorter, rounder, way more human skin tones and conditions, when Tamaraneans are naturally tall, athletic, and orange, at least she inherited her hair lol You know what, I never understood why she just... Never hanged out with Raven? Like, you think she could help with the goth loner deal earlier, maybe? I don't know, a lot of this could be resolved with some like-minded reassuring? As a story, I get the idea, but the execution with this part of the universe, opens a ton of questions that doesn't want to ever explore. Also I know damn well France has heroes (Ladybug esarure lol) (Blackfire's shows do rock, and highschool was over a decade ago for me, and I forgot most of it... Oh and I laughed at the Forest Gump reference)

[@DavidSilva-mn4dz]

A tamaranean burns 6000kcal per day, they are a solar battery and also burn alot of energy, when Starfire use her powers she burns more. This race is naturally fit. So she being this big is nonesensical.

[@TeruteruBozusama]

Internationalhero has a page about old-school French superheroes and... One of them is quite unfortunate putting it mildly..!

[@DDarkestKnight]

I'm guessing (cause I haven't read this) that Mandy probably sees Raven as her mom's friend, and that's not really someone to hangout with (I mean Raven's a grown woman). Mandy also deals with people who constantly ask her about the Titans, so the last thing she'd want is to be around all the time. Plus they're so different, Mandy's rebelling against her mother, Raven's trying to keep her emotions in check so her dad doesn't take over the world. Also I think Mandy's scared of Raven so this might've been a good call.

[@patronofdragons]

@@DavidSilva-mn4dz I wonder if it would be better if she had the body of a lumberjack. They are big but that's all muscle. Or if they chose another hero.

[@DavidSilva-mn4dz]

@@patronofdragons yeah, well is fiction, biology is mambo jumbo with this thing: Starfire descends from a feline alien and humans descend from ande hominide. Weird stuff

[@wardenm]

The trailer. The trailer is what killed this either way. A bitter narrator talking shit about everyone from the main franchise that appears, showing only disgust or disinterest, without any of the shows of vulnerability or hope that help a new character, particularly anti heroes and angsty teens, resonate and feel relatable. A new character acting like that for mostly unknown reasons, for someone new to the work, is like a slap in the face to a fan of the rest of the franchise. You're killing off your own target audience. You can tell the story and do so well, but yeah. Just REALLY needed a better narrative framing and focus.

[@akilucky2090]

Oh, that makes sense

[@sakulaeyr9819]

Marketing is EVERYTHING but the Big Two have really lost that.

[@ohno7153]

Wow, a balanced review instead of hearing grown men repeat “GO WOKE GO BROKE.”thank you.

[@marcelocoronado7805]

This seems like an example of the Streisand effect. If there hadn't been so much negative attention, this book would have likely been forgettable and fade into obscurity.

[@olthdorimirth6055]

Any publicity is good publicity... It's gross, but because of this it can't be forgotten easily.

[@annika3265]

Like... Barbra Streisand? That's the name of this type of phenomenon? I've seen this 'publicity through outrage' routine many times now but I didn't think it actually had proper name.

[@Grimeygrotto]

Probably the only reason why this book got attention is because star fire was a part of it. And she’s a fan favorite.

[@saraluciaforerogarcia]

@@annika3265 she was really hated at the beigining for being jewish and nlt conventionally pretty

[@gateauxq4604]

@Sara Lucia Forero Garcia ‘the Streisand effect’ actually refers to her becoming a gay icon. The angrier people got about it the more LGBTQ people found out about Streisand being popular among other LGBTQ people. In the end it made Streisand popular among gay people and gave her a new audience while her straight fans were angry because 🤷 gay people?

[@spacecowboy7148]

gonna be honest here because this was important to point out for mandy's sh!tty character growth on how she treats her mom. you skipped over the scene where mandy makes fun of the way her mom talks with the response of 'no it's the not' after starfire asked about college and you can see after that point how she's struggling to say what would be a normal sentence. 19:35

[@DD-po2hh]

I hate that people are saying that she’s a realistic teen because as annoying as they are. There’s a reason for what they are even if it’s as stupid as something 5 yrs ago.

[@gunfrost8778]

I hate that scene so much because as someone with a mom who’s not a native english speaker I would NEVER make fun of the way she talked

[@dianamungaray]

Same here- my mom has lived in the US for almost 30 years and never really grasped onto English that well. But to make fun of her broken english??? as her daughter?????? i just can't relate to that....

[@marhawkman303]

@@dianamungaray Also, Starfire's broken english isn't a significant speech quirk, it's a minor one that rarely causes a problem.

[@idiomatic444]

As a teenager, her personality just kinda sucks. I don't relate to it, and I would never make fun of broken English. My grandpa is from what I think is Mexico and his English is super broken, but that doesn't mean he deserves to get Mads fun of for it.

[@allantidgwell5624]

Modern comics creators: "We're writing characters just like us, why don't people like them!?" Their characters: Sociopathic narcissists who lack any humanity or redeeming characteristics

[@karlahernandez-qv5qz]

That part!

[@austinreed7343]

The Mercury Age in a nutshell, everyone.

[@IronFreakV]

"The character is gay so obviously everyone who doesn't like her are homophobic bigots" Identity politics kills any chance of having a nuanced discussion. Pretty sure it's deliberate.

[@allantidgwell5624]

@@IronFreakV well of course. Nuance is the death of revolution I literally had a leftist tell me yesterday that "people should be allowed to decide for themselves" was unnuanced and "the government should make people act morally" was nuanced Which just proves the point; religion reverses everything

[@IronFreakV]

@@allantidgwell5624 Couldn't agree more! Ignorance sure is a bliss

[@HereForTheShips]

Sounds like something I'd hate 😅 For me the mother-daughter relationship getting better after Mandy gets powers ruins any chance at it being an ok story. Mandy just comes across as jealous of her mom and resentful for not having powers and being less pretty. Her issues are kinda solved after she gets powers lol

[@frankiecastelo9257]

I feel if they had made her love herself prior to getting her powers otherwise there's no true character growth. She hate herself and everyone else, all the way up until she flies, now she's suddenly happy and ok? Shallow and a disappointing moral.

[@RiveroftheWither]

It paints the picture that teens are miserable unless they have something that makes them special, then years of depression and self loathing can be cured!

[@osets2117]

@@RiveroftheWither that's half the problem everyone thinks they're special and they're not, which is okay. It's okay to be average

[@killjoy516]

"French people don't have super heroes." Miraculous Ladybug would like to have a word with you.

[@eva-uq9qw]

Time?

[@killjoy516]

@@eva-uq9qw What?

[@bubblesofrain]

@@eva-uq9qw 14:09

[@eva-uq9qw]

@@bubblesofrain thanks you

[@ORLY911]

It's weird fanfiction with a self insert, no really Mandy looks A LOT like the author. Weird one shot stories always existed, but the fact this was pushed so damn hard is what's baffling.

[@lamia197]

A lot like the author? Draw the author in comic and its Mandy. Its a 1 to 1.

[@ZundelArt]

I will saying that it is really hard to find some reviews on this book that are... actually about the book. Because the book has flaws, actual flaws in the writing that could be disscussed. How Mandy is ulikable, self-entitled and brattish but she is never made to grow past that. She is a teen- all teens can be brats sometimes, but you can still make them likable with a little effort. There should be a moment showing what Many is like outside of the context of being overshadowed by her mother. Maybe make her also display some of Starfire's more well known traits like being emphatic and protective of others. Let her be her own hero. How the pacing is off and Blackfire is unneccessary to the story. How her getting powers is also unnecessary. But instead people seem to be stuck on a stupid and irrelevant self-instert criticism, how she is fat and she doesn't look like her mom. Those are shallow, lazy criticism that just make all the discourse around them lazy and shallow. It's doesn't matter if someone thinks Mandy is ugly. It doesn't matter if she looks like tha author. The writing is the real issue and I am tired of people giving the "She is a fat self instert!" as much weight as some actually constructive comments.

[@bumblerbree]

i couldn't care less her body type, but it does feel uncomfortable that she is significantly paler than starfire. it isn't like starfire tans, everyone from tamaran is born with darker skin because their planet is basically the sun - it could be argued that it's because mandy doesn't get any sunlight, but that doesn't happen to people with naturally dark skin.

[@natsuki7325]

@@bumblerbree exactly like why did the author whiten her skin and her features

[@derekli8757]

I know what you mean but when you self insert yourself into a comic, it becomes disingenuous. When I read comics, I like to read about someone that doesn’t exist in real life because I want to escape from the real world and immerse myself in a universe. The writing is also kinda bad and I found it so goddamn cringey for some reason

[@yaB0i_Hawkx]

Most critisism about her body type and the self insert thing came from a time, where the book hasn't been published yet. Most review must grasp the little information they gave them at the time. And that is her design and small fraction of the pages. Even though with all this and those panels shown and with videos titled with "self insert" there are plenty saying that her character doesn't make sense, isn't likable at all, unnecessary, etc. The insult towards the author being self insert is just a disrespecting move against a seem like disrespecting author. I agree with those who only judge this based on the design, body type, style? But those reviews I've watched only used it to define their disappointment while comming up with constructive criticism. Prejudging isn't a good thing, yes, but as the publisher published little details about why she has darker hair than her mother, etc it all got debunked. So yeah, those critics and reviews I've seen aren't just jumping around the "ew fat and ew self insert".

[@alicequeenofmadness9995]

THIS! So much This!

[@StuffedPillows]

You ever read a super self indulgent fanfic where something happens to a character and they have like a public breakdown or give a speech about being sad in front of a crowd or something equally dramatic and out of character? This feels like one of those stories except Mandy is actually Like That

[@falconeshield]

This comic feels like Twilight circa 2005. It's bad but the hate is overblown.

[@HawaiianForgeStudios]

Meh, cant relate dont care, just a waste of paper and time when there are other stories out there that do these themes but better. (See My Hero Academia.)

[@seabirdflutter]

this is a wattpad fic grown wings.

[@ultraboombean]

Tbh, the daughter just having personality similar to her aunt might have been cool. Maybe she triggers some kind of memory in her mother from when they were children.

[@gamemaster4947]

THANK YOU. Every time a controversial piece of media comes out, everyone is either against or for it. I’m so grateful for neutral reviews like this one that give opinions as-is. Side note: yes, those shoes were very nice.

[@joakimhansen7733]

Now I feel like we need a video to highlight some of France's superheroes.

[@CrisisComics]

She could do a Justice League Europe video.

[@karenl6908]

Including actual French comics and their superheroes!

[@moonled]

Miraculous Ladybug and Cat Noir!

[@tylerpreston699]

Nightrunner is suddenly angry and he doesn't know why.

[@paultapner1896]

Jean de Baton!

[@jewelsdragonfly]

Feels rare that someone bought and look into the story and gave their opinion without being biased and understanding both sides and discussing the actual problems instead of whining the smallest things that doesnt really damage the story as a whole. Really impressed.

[@anotherrandomguy8871]

Wait, wouldn’t Blackfire have more combat experience, and just all out be stronger or no? Regardless, how did Blackfire not wipe the floor with Mandy?

[@jordanmchighlander9365]

The weirdest part to me is that Blackfire easily defeated Starfire but then was defeated by Mandy. It could be a rock/paper/scissors scenario, but it's more likely that the comic is trying to convey that Mandy is stronger than both of them.

[@Sephiroth144]

Plot armor? Bad writing? I mean, if they had at least Starfire do some work, so Blackfire was pretty weak, fine. OR, Blackfire toys with her, and says she'll give her X time so its at least a worthy fight, fine. But the person who shouldn't even UNDERSTAND how to use her powers outright winning? GIMME A B, GIMME AN S, and we're done.

[@carmenjohnson1834]

Because the character is a self insert for the writer.

[@wiggindorfthemagnificent]

Genuinely incredibly well done review. It felt incredibly balanced and not overly reactionary like a few other reviews I've seen. I think going over the intents of the author and looking at the choices through that lense is an interesting and important perspective I haven't seen others really do at least not in good faith. You outlined the flaws and plotholes in the work in a way that seemed to take into accout that perspective but didn't hold back on criticism. 10/10

[@GaryOPostle]

Sounds like this shouldn't get any more scrutiny than whatever Gotham High is

[@travishimebaugh8381]

Get someone on that- find out what Gotham High is

[@OmerAliuddin]

Gotham high was cute, it was like the fictional special school trope but it was just a boarding school in gotham where bruce went I think or damian is going to at that time, I forget. Cute lil series about some kids exploring mysteries of the school and one of the main character's parent was a villain

[@nanamugu]

@@OmerAliuddin i think you confused gotham high with gotham academy lol

[@OmerAliuddin]

@@nanamugu oh I may have. Gotham high is the one AU with bruce and selina and everyone being high school students aint it?

[@nanamugu]

@@OmerAliuddin yup,they have very similar names it's annoying,a shame gotham academy isnt more famous

[@delicate1917]

As a teen this really *really* feels like those "clearly an adult writing a teen" story wjxnnwjxhsjdjsjdbdh It's kind of e h I really like the art style and the designs so the whole plot is a bummer :/ I can't reach Mandy's character at all,, literally Sometimes yes, being self centered and unable to grasp that your parent is just a person too is a thing, but not always??? Definitely not???? It's such a popular trope and I don't get h o w it happened because it's a huge stretch from reality (or at least from my own experience and what I know from friends,,) I might be just really tired of the trope honestly

[@KoriMasho]

This. This right here. When I was a teenager, the people I went to school with that hated on their parents for no reason were kind of shunned. Most of us were very well aware that our parents were human beings that were just doing their best. I don't know why people assume that teenagers, specifically teenage girls, lack basic empathy. It really, REALLY grates on my nerves. And the tropes? I fucking hate them.

[@delicate1917]

@@KoriMasho EXACTLY Somehow the trope "Teenagers are incapable of basic empathy" is so popular and just. Why. It's really just glorified bad and unrealistic behavior??? And now that you pointed it out, specially girls seem to be the focus of this kind of trope I would love to see teenager representation in media that doesn't sexualize and/or make the teenagers into insensible "I hate my parents" stereotypes having more spotlights

[@unknownbystander8145]

@@delicate1917 It's a logical basis for a parent-child conflict(though most of the ones that I've seen with it are males which makes sense since they are usually characterized as wanting to keep their problems to themselves) . With that said, as the story moves forward the character/s with this conflict are supposed to grow out of it, which doesn't seem to be the case here.

[@Creature7777]

Yeah fr, sometimes I think adults just forget they were teenagers and run with whatever idea of "teens theses days" they have lmao

[@Starburst514]

Excatly like when I was a teen when I was mad at my parents it's was for an actual reason, most teens know parents are people and human, and when I was a kid it was the hypocrisy that made me angry. Knowing my parents were imperfect, and made mistakes but then turned around and asserted they were perfect and always right when that wasn't true

[@mori4532]

Mandy’s green aura is so fitting for her alias, Dumpstarfire

[@peoplesaidmypfpiscursedafb6902]

True. Also the green aura on Mandy "Dumpstarfire" Cobblepot look more like a slime than a mystical enchantment

[@shipperina2213]

Omfg

[@movedaccountscyayalls7119]

GOODBYE

[@linttastic]

D E A D

[@stephenlong9806]

@@peoplesaidmypfpiscursedafb6902 are you implying that the Penguin is her father? That's actually amazing.

[@RLane-xz5cj]

Am I alone in thinking Mandy's character design is fine? Cute even? Maybe "fat moody goth girl" is kind of stereotypical, but not ugly. I think her not looking more like her mom is a missed opportunity though, both to contribute to her resentment of Starfire, but also to have a goth character that isn't super pale for a change. I've noticed a lot of young goths think paleness is a required part of the aesthetic, and it's not. The book sounds kinda mediocre though. Not bad, not great. I might chance a read of it myself.

[@kekkres]

my problem is mostly just that she doesnt look even remotely related to her mother, even ignoring her weight her proportions are completely different, i know shes actively trying to not look like her mother, but her being pasty, short, stocky, and round faced to her mothers tall slender bronze skinned and anguler form.... i guess i just dont buy it.

[@rylian21]

Being one myself, I like the goth aesthetic, and chubby is... "Eh, whatever. Bodies are all different" but the artist I think tried to go out of her way to make Mandy look physically unattractive in a classical sense juxtaposed against her glamorous classically beautiful mother.

[@cadence685]

The only problem I have is I think Starfires daughter wouldn’t look like that all the women and kids on starfires home planet are thin but muscular they have 9 stomachs meaning high matabolism. She looks like she isn’t even starfires daughter at all.

[@brains7942]

I wouldn't mind her design if she wasn't such a despicable character.

[@redpanda6497]

@@kekkres Yeah. Why couldn't she be Wonder woman's daughter? She look much closer to a human than Starfire. I don't get their logic.

[@mariacillan9668]

I wish they kinda explored why the events activated her powers because it actually makes sense DC wise. In the Teen Titans cartoon when Starfire and Raven swapped bodies, Starfire explained to Raven that her powers are activated by strong emotions, while Raven's powers are unstable by default and are regulated through suppressing emotions. In this sense, Mandy hasn't been allowing herself to feel because she's in so much denial throughout the book that the battle was the first time she let her emotions out there, therefore activating her powers. But yeah, still cliche, but I just noticed it made sense

[@princessarnasan3725]

You have a point 😶

[@Harudodo]

Unfortunately I have a feeling that it was a total coincidence and not intentional 😭

[@MrsMars-kf5lb]

As someone who graduated a couple of months ago: yes, that sounds like exactly a high school assignment I would've gotten, in fact I got one astonishingly similar in ninth grade. Granted it's cause my teacher was awesome and I know plenty of people and schools who wouldn't give anything similar but yeah.

[@Goblinteethves]

Yeah, I mean it wasn't a deep dive into mental health or anything but a large part of my hamlet course went over how Hamlet's mental illness influenced some of his actions and how he began to spiral

[@rmhartman]

@@Goblinteethves Hamlet is a regular mine of mental health issues. Suicidal. Narcissistic. Dismissive of others. How he treats Ophelia is worth a study all on its own. And the elephant in the room, all the issues caused by his uncle killing his father then marrying his mother. The dude is a mess!

[@JVSkellington]

She could've been the daughter of an OC with the same history, but then no one would care about.

[@tavrosnitram1529]

That's true, which makes the writing all that much worse

[@alfredmarcos1761]

Starfire, best friends with the daughter of a demon, a heir with daddy issues, a science project gone wrong and a shapeshifter with abandonment issues.

[@sanctimoniouslocke3941]

Knowing nothing about this comic or these characters, I am going to assume that the father is Raven. This is now canon.

[@LilKingler]

I fully accept that as canon, many plot holes now make sense.