are straight people allowed in gay bars?

hot takes episode: is Jacob Elordi in trouble? Do scam artists make the best friends? Did Miley Cyrus take it too far? Are Taylor Swift and Olivia Rodrigo feuding or friends? Are straight people allowed to go to gay bars?
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[@madisonmitchell1157]

the conversation about the lesbian bar was really special to watch, not only when it comes to queer discourse, but just between you two as a couple. taryn i think the fact that you are self aware enough to ask if you were doing an “all lives matter thing” and the fact that cam could answer honestly says soooo much

[@JoannaCoolidge]

Cammie, I whole heartedly agree with you on the bar situation. I’ve been SA’d by men at the gay bar sooooo many times and they would try to take advantage of me when I was drinking heavily. Weho (the abbey) being one of the bars. If I go to a place like the cubby hole, which ironically I was in NYC when this happened, I want to feel safe. I’ve never felt like I had a safe space growing up, and it was so entitled of this woman to dismiss our feelings in our safe haven. Thank you for being a voice, have been following you for years! 💜

[@kokoschultz]

A cis straight male doesn’t need to feel welcome at a lesbian bar. Idc if they are causing problems or not 😂 When I was in college there was a Black Student Union. Say I showed up to a meeting they were having. I would not expect them to “welcome” me-even if I went with my black friend, who was apart of the union. It’s their safe place. I am white. I would 💯 understand if they did not care whether or not I felt welcome

[@kokoschultz]

Okay I watched the whole thing thru and I’m glad Taryn finally understands how it can be pretty problematic to have a cis straight male in our spaces 🙏🏼

[@kiraoliver5786]

A couple of thoughts here on cis-men at a lesbian bar. As a lesbian or queer woman, having a group of close white straight cis guy friends is a privilege. Many men holding those identities aren't respectful to women, especially queer women, and many queer woman have therefore experienced some sort of trauma or harassment by them. So, knowing that this is the case, will you take that into consideration when considering bringing a cis straight white guy into a lesbian space? (ex. you feel safe with him because he is your friend, but others may not due to what he represents). Another way to think about this is in the context of race. A white person feeling entitled to a Black space makes no sense. White people's skin color and history can inherently make Black people/POC feel unsafe hense why there are Black/POC spaces (so they can feel safe knowing no white people will be there). The question I think folks in Taryn's shoes should ponder is, how important is it for me to bring Kevin into a Lesbian bar/Queer Party ex. Futch to have a fun night with me, Kevin, other guys, other queer friends there... vs. could me bringing Kevin make other queer people feel unsafe in their safe space? [I want to emphasize this has nothing to do with the "Kevin", or how they act in the space but just the fact that they are there and represent a man/white man/cis man etc. means that it will impact the queer people in the space, and could make people feel uncomfortable. Is that worth it? I don't think there is right answer here, just wish people would consider others before bringing straight cis people (especially men) into lesbian spaces.

[@Anouddw]

I love how Taryn is so real with her self and with us all. LOVES IT

[@polinavyakhireva9962]

I totally agree with Cammie when she talks about men in lesbian bars🤝 And Taryn, thank you for being so vulnerable!!!

[@morganwilson9115]

Taryn getting too into the 30 seconds to human and Cammie just peeking at her trying not to laugh was hilarious. You guys are the best lmao

[@writteng1rl]

having heard many different takes on the debate of whether straight people should be allowed in gay bars, I think Cammie's analogy of being in someone's else's home is so brilliant in conveying how it feels as a queer person. i love these types of discussions on the podcast !! it feels so safe yet so engaging and honest :)

[@hl_amos2385]

Can not stop listening to Taryn say ‘erghhh so big’ it’s absolutely killing me off😂her facial expressions are making me dieee

[@sadiesmom10]

I just need you guys to know I savor these episodes and listen to them 20 minutes at a time during my drive to/from work and they are always the best way to start and end my day! Love you guys ❤❤

[@kerc9996]

I think it’s simpler to think of it in terms of spaces meant for women in general. If a woman brought her cis man friend to a space meant exclusively for women and it made one single woman in that group uncomfortable, he should absolutely leave. The space’s entire purpose is to act as a refuge from the very thing that is now being reintroduced to the space, with which many of the women who choose to utilize that space likely have a negative or even traumatic history.

[@cynthianguyen9655]

Props to Taryn and Cammie for keeping it real on their convo about gay bars. It could've been easy for you to edit that part out to avoid internet backlash but you chose to keep it in. So many of us are quick to write off other people without giving them the chance to change and reflect. Conversations like this are so valuable because it shows how two people can come to an agreement even if they originally have a difference of opinion. Even though I initially disagreed with some of Taryn's points, I really appreciate your effort in wanting to do better. Seeing you both be so open in sharing your opinions and listening to other made me realize that maybe I can do better in communicating these conversations with the people around me. Truth be told, we're going to have these difficult conversations with other queer people that don't agree with us, straight people that don't understand us, and bigots that downright hate us. As long as we're all trying our best to be kind and do better, what more you can ask? Thanks for a great podcast and keeping the space safe for us all.

[@anger101]

This was such a good discussion! Thank you for digging into the nuance, so needed in the world today.

[@chantellevanderwalt7720]

Thank you for the entertainment

[@emmamcphearson9942]

so so glad you posted it:)

[@CristinaSellers-gc4bs]

Y’all’s communication is top tier. Really enjoyed the dialogue about the bar situation and going through the different perspectives. I think this type of talk is helpful to everyone!

[@mayodowd9807]

I loved this video. This correlates to everything I just learned about in class. It's so weird how school is bleeding into real life. @ Taryn, what I learned about equity and diversity is that you realize where your thought process was going and breaking it down. It shows how much of an awesome person you are! These conversations are so important for every aspect of life, and we all have a lot of learning and self-analyzing to do as we surf through life.

[@Malluu9]

Love the ep but 1. Why are we talking about Justin Bieber playing hockey when we have Marie Philip Poulin and Laura Stacey playing together every week for Montreal 😭 they’re real couple goals! You guys should check them out, trust me, more worth it than Biebs. And 2. Not all men but more than enough men! More than 80% of women have reported having been harassed at some point and feeling uncomfortable around men. Men already have every other bar in the world to go to, we deserve at least ONE safe space to just BE without having to watch over our shoulders.

[@oopskye]

I got an amber alert in the middle of the meditation thing 😭

[@emmamcphearson9942]

absolutely loved the conversation about lesbian bars!!!!! you’re a beautiful and such a strong couple

[@sarahtee5422]

also with the lesbian bar- straight men seeing women touching and kissing they enjoy seeing it in an uncomfortable way but gay men doesn’t really care so idk kissing my gf would feel weird with straight guys right there. but im also with taryn and i have so many great guy friends but idk if i would take them... but also women making out or hitting on other women is something i wouldnt do in front of my guy friends so taking them somewhere where its happening prob wouldnt happen. guys are visual and idk hard to figure out but exclusivity is good sometimes even if people feel left out.

[@J_Themborn]

15:52 how about those white candy sticks that can look like a cig? They’re either a chalky type or chocolate in a wafer wrapping

[@mayascriven5015]

As an Australian listener, trust me when I say everyone in AUS is on Jacobs side. The Kyle and Jackie O show where the guy was from is very controversial and known for being crude and unpleasant. Not popular at all, especially with younger generations here in Australia. Violence shouldn't be the answer but Australian culture does not mix well with press in general (due to the laid back nature), maybe explaining why Jacob was quick to anger. Being back home he would have had his guard down as we don't have paparazzi in Australia and just trying to hang with his mates.

[@tizz.89]

So true

[@Carriehammer718]

Did you guys go to cubbyhole when you were in nyc?

[@erinhomie]

This is something I constantly struggle with and feel ostracized by. I cherish the need for safe spaces / sanctuary for queer people, and we need sooo much more of that! However, as a pansexual, non-binary person in a relationship with a straight man, I at times feel very unwelcome in these spaces, unless I am there alone / with my queer friends only. I want to bring the person I love into these spaces but I constantly feel the judgement from our community to do so. I want to welcome him into our spaces and feel comfortable doing so, but I tend to feel the need to separate him from these spaces and experiences because of this judgement. And like people look at me like I don't belong and I'm not "queer enough". Then it feels like a whole part of my life and who I am that he can't be part of. I know the discussion here is also about how respectful someone is in the space (and he is extremely respectful and supportive of course), but my point is about the initial bias, aversion, and judgement present in queer culture. Imagine not being able to bring the love of your life into your own safe space without fear of judgement. We can ALL relate... Just try to be mindful of this aspect in this conversation. Please try not to make snap judgments. I'm not in a straight relationship just because my partner is straight. HE is in a queer relationship. Okay sorry rant over LOVE YOU GUYS!

[@chardonnay5249]

I agree with the other comments here, I loved listening to you two talk about the lesbian bar situation together. Both of you had different opinions that you were obviously passionate about but you were still so open to hearing the other side.

[@dios.fanni1]

Taryn with her hair tucked in her hoodie looks like Cody Ko with long hair lol.

[@wooodstock]

Cortisol is supposed to peak at noon. It's the oposite to melatonin (the sleep molecule) , which starts at sunset so you feel peaceful , sleepy and hopefully sleeping by 9-10. It also slows down your heart, stops digestion etc. Peaks around midnight. Then at dawn cortisol starts slowly so you wake up , and is supposed to peak at noon. Then goes slowly down. It's good so you can work, be energetic, be social, do sport, solve problems, eat and digest lots of nutrients etc when the sun is up. But when you get your rythm messed up you get cortisol at night and stuff like that. It's important for your eyes to get sunlight by morning, and avoid lights at night to get the right hormones produced at the right time

[@petronathompson6427]

Long time i having lesson your podcast 😊 watching from 🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲🇯🇲

[@stayinguppod]

big love back!!

[@zairehaylock4974]

Hey. Zaire Haylock here. I love your video.

[@zairehaylock4974]

@elijahmarie77444 That's cool.

[@vladimir-qt5bl]

I agree with Taryn. From what it sounds, the guy was just standing in line for the bathroom and was perceived as "grumpy" for reasons not mentioned. He was just minding his own business. I think everyone should be welcome everywhere so long as they're not actively being some kind of menace and the situation was started not by that guy. It just feels like something that's not that serious was turned into a big deal.

[@vladimir-qt5bl]

yes just be nice to everyone it's not hard

[@grndouwn7338]

they don't have to be nice to someone who doesn't belong there, no one is obliged to care about his feelings in a space where he doesn't belong

[@vladimir-qt5bl]

@@grndouwn7338I think the idea that no one is obliged to be kind and non-presumptuous to the people around them is everything that is wrong in the world. You can live your life thinking me me but I prefer me we

[@grndouwn7338]

@ir-qt5bl there's an irony in your comment. Your lack of capacity to recognise the significance of this space for others IS you living your life thinking 'me me'. All you're thinking about is yourself and how you feel bad that you're not welcome. You are not thinking about what the space means for lesbians. If you were actually living life as 'me we' you wouldn't feel like you have the right to claim a space that purposefully was built to exclude you in the first place.

[@vladimir-qt5bl]

@@grndouwn7338just like you have a bullshit account, so do I. But all YOU can think about is Me ME ME

[@nkb420]

No, please don't bring your straight male friends to lesbian bars. We don't want them there. How is this hard to understand? Taryn - sometimes your privilege and blind spots shine through so much, it's hard to listen to. That's so cool you have had good experiences with straight men, most of the rest of womanhood have not. It's selfish not to consider what and who lesbian bars were created for.

[@stayinguppod]

taryn here. i hear you and learned a lot in this convo, and did call out both my privilege and blind spots. i know they're there and don't shy away from chances to work through it, but i'm sorry it's hard to listen to.

[@nicolen.9490]

i thought it was nice to hear you two process that together! you weren’t defensive and reflected and grew from the convo! You and cammie are such safe spaces for one another, it’s really admirable ❤️

[@stayinguppod]

really appreciate this @@nicolen.9490 🤍

[@lonegabalebatse9356]

@@nicolen.9490 couldn't agree more 😊

[@Carriehammer718]

👏 👏 👏 👏

[@trulyfirefly]

I think the reason this tik tok situation makes a lot of queer people feel angry and protective is 1. these people seem completely unaware of the concerns of queer people (especially lesbians) and don't understand that for a lot of people queer-only spaces are the only safe haven when the rest of their lives are filled with pain and rejection. It's not merely a bar, or a party, it's a safe place to rest your head, to meet elderes, to cry, to feel seen and yes to party and flirt safely. These people seem entitled to the space because they perceive it as a casual party space, and fundementally misunderstand what a queer bar (especially a lesbian bar) is, and what it means to the people there. 2. I think the conversation also escalates because it perfectly mirrors and thus brings out a lot of people's negative and sometimes horrific experiences in queer bars when cis-het people do come. Everything from disgusted reactions to being hit on by someone of the same gender/perceived sex, slurs being directed towards the queer bar-goers, SA, and even violent and extreme hate crimes.

[@trulyfirefly]

I get Taryn's point though. If cis-het men who typically come to queer bars where as respectful and lovely as her male friends sound like they are, it would be less of an issue I think. Then I believe there would be other solutions like more specific nights, events etc. where it would be queer-only to still have queer-only spaces. But sadly, cis-het men (even ones that see *themselves* as chill and cool) are a nucance and create an unsafe environment (by staring, by hitting on queer women, by reacting disgusted when queer men hit on them, and sometimes SA and direct slurs towards the queer people there), it's become the safest route to keep us safe to put a blanket "no cis-hets allowed" rule on it which then does make it more understandable that people react regardless of the cis-hets behaviour.

[@Trecesolotienesdos]

there definitely is more acceptance compared to 30 years ago. but then two lgbt people in a relationship can't kiss in a regular bar. but then a straight person isn't inherently negative or out to harm. there should be room for both approaches. yes, lgbt bars are safe spaces, but then we shuldn't arbitrarily deny access to public spaces. Like what if a straight person is respectful of the LGBT-specific space, but is a local office manager who goes there after work to chill and that's the nearest place to their office? What if they don't bother people and just watch the sports on the tv, or work on their laptop/phone and eat packs of nuts? the point is a person who isn't lgbt should still be free to go there, whilst being mindful of it being an lgbt safe space.

[@nikkih855]

Kristen McKenzie is the DIY queen

[@Carriehammer718]

Cigarettes are gross not cool

[@Val-rd4lb]

The cubby hole issue is complicated because we are all living in our own realities. No one's is exactly the same as the other. They might be similar but they might be way different. Because of all the different personality types and traits and how one person can percive another's words differently because of over analyzing, misunderstanding ect. Wow that was a run on sentance if i ever saw one. Hopefully this makes sense to some of you. It won't make sense to all because of ⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️

[@MusicMandi19]

I (a lesbian woman) walked into a gay club with a (queer male) friend and was told to “look somewhere else for a third”. As a femme lesbian, everywhere I go people assume I’m straight. To walk into what should have been a safe space and be met with the same thing was a huge bummer for me. So while I agree with most of this conversation and a lot of these comments, let’s remember that of all communities we should not be making assumptions about how people identify. Just feels important to note in this discussion!

[@MusicMandi19]

I’m not sure the difference makes my point any less relevant.

[@Ifamunas]

Sorry guys, I love Miley she was great at the grammys

[@tiffanicrenshaw9530]

Pls stop bringing str8 men to lesbian bars...pls.

[@vladimir-qt5bl]

Cammie is leaning into "he did something" when there was literally zero actual evidence that he did

[@vladimir-qt5bl]

idk really not into the idea of letting personal trauma and biases affect how you treat other people

[@amandawakaoyao]

I understand how cammie feels but legally the straight man is allowed to be there regardless of what the lesbian women or anyone feels about him. I get that it’s a safe space for lesbians and that it might feel uncomfortable for the other women but he still has the right to be there… unless he is sexually harassing someone. Just because the woman is annoyed by the straight man’s attitude doesn’t give the right for her to ask who he is even there with. It is non of her business. That’s just what I think lol

[@amandawakaoyao]

I just finished watching the rest. I completely agree with Taryn and her examples. I can walk into a church and understand that the space is not for me or walk into a clothing shop that is comeptlely not my style, but I have the RIGHT to be there and I shouldn’t be KICKED out or feel the need to leave unless I disrespect or destroy the store. Cammie is thinking on the emotional point of view. Yes, if everyone in the bar doesn’t feel safe that the guy is there, it would be a good decision for him to leave on it his own will but at the end of the day he doesn’t have to

[@Carriehammer718]

No

[@Carriehammer718]

@dulapeep6163 it's a safety issue. Plus straight people have soo many other places. I would never go to church because I don't believe in it. It's not for me. Same thing

[@Carriehammer718]

@dulapeep6163 lol straight men are so often disrespectful

[@user-mq4hr1ly4b]

realistically it's down to who owns the bar who decides who can be there and who can't, and given the fact it's a lesbian bar they're not going to tolerate a man causing problems

[@maddiericcinto]

I have just realized that my tiredness is anxiety🫢