Are Team Spirit UNSTOPPABLE? / Can Aleksib lead NAVI to the Major Final? - Counter-Points S2E14

Thorin and Maniac discuss the PGL Copenhagen Major Playoffs, why Team Spirit are the favorites + angles where FaZe can defeat them, the hype potential semifinal between Vitality and Spirit, Ax1Le showing up for Cloud9, MOUZ and Eternal Fire's statuses as dark horses, and more!
Counter-Points is a Counter-Strike talk show, hosted by Duncan "Thorin" Shields and Mathieu "Maniac" Quiquerez.
This video was recorded on the 27th of March.
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0:00:00 - Maniac's experience at the Major
0:02:21 - G2 vs VP controversy
0:12:50 - Parity in the Playoffs
0:16:39 - Spirit, FaZe, and Vitality
0:40:56 - Cloud9
0:52:49 - G2
0:58:51 - MOUZ
1:05:05 - Eternal Fire
1:13:15 - NAVI
1:21:57 - Heroic
#podcast
#counterstrike
#thorin

[@brajjko]

I cant even explain how greatful i am of these type of series

[@MrMatom55]

Hell yeah

[@Kobeyachi]

The title has aged extremely well

[@AstroSully]

this might be my favorite esports duo rn

[@bretstiles345]

Really loving the mid major content!

[@MusicJunkie37]

Perfect timing as I was about to do some chores

[@everything-has-a-handle-now]

In a 14 hour long nighttrain thanks for the content

[@issamoniker]

I really appreciate the work you guys put into this show. Thorin always has fantastic takes and Maniac is my favourite voice in CS right now. His presence on the desk during this Major has been a joy to watch.

[@Isaxus12]

Imagine the community outrage if it was a popular or widely liked team that crashed lol

[@Gomezio]

Bruh, imagine the endless screeching if that shit happened to Pain

[@moke23]

Gaules would send a kill squad to PGL admins

[@jffrzon]

@@moke23 we just wouldn't understand

[@nyamusa8159]

The dynamic Maniac and Thorin have is beautiful, it brings the best out of both and I look forward to Counter Points each week. Thank you for all the insightful content you and LFN produce!

[@Drwiggles69]

All this mid-major content has been awesome. Much appreciated

[@AstroSully]

18:35 CLASSIC 🤣

[@astar2394]

Would love to see these two on a major desk. Thanks for the impossible amount of content recently thorin

[@singular9]

The G2 VP thing is clear cut if you watch their latest team coms video. They make the call "kill one or save" BUT hooxie called out James crashed! They knew!

[@joshiemah]

just saw that, pretty crazy stuff

[@copy9886]

No he doesnt, its caster voice there

[@mariushager9983]

And how does it change anything? Dowsnt change the points thorin talked about

[@drinkwoter]

I wish they get the karma , fun to see if monesy gets a crash and loose to mouz

[@mariushager9983]

@@drinkwoter how would it be karma?? Its not their fault moron

[@Doverbendoverben]

It is so exciting how great every team is looking in the playoffs(except maybe g2), but even more wild that the eye test for spirit is still overwhelmingly more convincing than everyone else.

[@blakeprince1491]

I love c9 being an underdog. as far as pure talent remaining their roster is top 3 maybe even top 2 depending on you ask.

[@TopOnTops]

by rifler yes top 3 but hard in generally without awper

[@misterkefir]

Banger show as always, gents. Cheers.

[@daansmits8345]

Thank you for this fantastic content, lads. Definitely my favourite podcast from this channel. Thorin and Maniac work great together.

[@bar0v]

Okay someone leaked the script to Maniac. But jokes aside great analysis, well done

[@FreagaZ]

Perfect call from Maniac 1:16:55 identifying that b1t is also a problem individually for them, not just iM. It's a miracle they perform with that level of fragging good enough to even crawl into the top8. MOUZ still has better rifle trio in my opinion so I don't see them in the finals by any chance.

[@marrchy2682]

not only bit and im its also alsekib. some rounds from him are just idk tier 3 level aim and gameplay. but sometimes he turns into tier 1 for some reason. really 50/50 team. without JL and wonderful clutching 3-5 rounds every game, they would've been stomped out of this major.

[@gbrowning2749]

i think that one of those two is definitely gone unless they make a run to the finals, and if i had to guess i think navi will go for jks. would be a perfect fit to replace iM especially since you could slide b1t back into his normal role he was best at as a lurker. but unfortunately i just think b1t doesn't feel like he belongs in the team after all the russians and ukrainians left. which sucks because when that happened, i was like "oh well at least we can build around b1t and s1mple" and now s1mple is gone and b1t isn't the same. will be interesting to see what they do, but i would love a full international team

[@laurentiumocacoca175]

@@gbrowning2749 i am romanian and I try hard af not to be biased, but iM isnt ready to make individual decisions on T. On most maps he is playing as a lurker, which he did in most of the maps in GL, but they had an analyst that told him where to be on Nuke/OP where he played as lurk, him being the star player, whereas în Navi, i dont know if they play like this, în GL, they said multiple times, they had their strats and they do it, no matter what. The big difference is that in GL he mostly played as an agressive rifle as donk, push there, we have a set up for you, point blank, flash, job done. Look at him in GL when he played Heroic, the prime example. He doesnt have the experience to take good timings on a lurk, use him as a Boros/donk role, use him as an entry. Thats the problem. Maybe blade can help him, because until the major he had decent results. I cheer for him and I want him to deliver results so he wont be a liability no more, I want him to succed so the playoffs wont be on him.

[@tech4172]

Im is the scapegoat for most even though bit has been shit for a LONG time now with rare signs of form

[@laurentiumocacoca175]

@@tech4172 True, but im is the newcomer, he has the best positions on CT, mostly, and b1t hasnt been that awful

[@IVEdge]

Flit was obviously on full tilt after the crash. I can relate when I completely check out from a game when I discover a cheater on the enemy team. You feel like you can do everything right and have it ripped away. 11:54 Information exchange could be limited if they had the tech to completely freeze the round as soon as they realize a player dropped. Have an admin waiting for that with a finger on the button and the ability to wind back the clock.

[@exzamTV]

My personal favorite series!

[@RiggedandReady]

I'm loving all the content that you're making around the major. I've been checking in here and last free csgo nation daily. Keep it up! I'll be watching.

[@RiggedandReady]

Personal channel and here*

[@edgaras6796]

Let's go Thorin mate, you and Maniac delivered once again.

[@adamsojka4069]

Thooooooorin, always delivering. Thanks.

[@jimmybobhead44]

great show! 👍

[@sentryion3106]

Every time before g2 got to playoff in the last 2 years they were the tournament favorite. This is the first time with this lineup that they are the clear underdogs to any teams in the playoff. It’s gonna be interesting how they handle

[@nopenope-xi4zr]

Such an excellent show - others pale in comparison - Maniac is something truly special, and Thorin a pleasure in critical analysis, as ever

[@kimjunkmoon2298]

Does anyone have the clip or know what he is talking about at 38:30 ?

[@danosoro4194]

Zywoos grandmother passed as well things not going well for him rn

[@ice0age_b]

Faze is inevitable babyyyy

[@AstroSully]

Let’s hope Maniac theory comes to fruition 😂

[@vladpav]

Maniac on Thorin show > Maniac at desk.. and that shit just show how great Thorin is !

[@sthlmfps]

I hear JL have a very supportive gf so i expect a masterclass from him

[@julius477]

I really like maniacs take

[@fVNzO]

As much as I dislike thorins schizoposting maniac is always such a fucking generational Chad of an analyst. This is great content.

[@AstroSully]

Full Force Vitality vs Current Spirit is definitely the dream match.

[@TomEagle3]

One of the points with g2 it seemed like they were going to touch on is now they are in the playoffs. The JKS buff is not there. JKS is like rain. He seems to get a performance improvement when entering big matches. Nexa has not shown this. JKS can alleviate issues when the stars go missing. as thorin has said 'JKS can fuck around and sometimes get 25 kills' and thats your 4th best player. Theres less support now for a star to go missing now that JKS is gone.

[@sundaynightfunkin156]

Love Maniac

[@huh-vc5ke]

g2's winning this major, mark my word

[@stayhome4626]

Maj3r is a really good hard working IGL , Tactician and leader and the only reason that he was never successful is he never had the right pieces or the right ORG , you can check his HLTV career . He is dominantly french and he never had a chance to IGL a french team (in LDLC the IGL was Happy) , and if we to the Turkish side (small language barrier) , in SpaceSoldiers there was some firepower but no awper in a very dominant awp scene (Kenny , Guardian and Device) and no actual money or resources to scout players , after that Sangal where the team was terrible that he wasn't even the second worst player . When you compare that to IGLs that had all the chances like AleksiB , Snappi(Before ence) and Fallen(After 2017) then I think what he's doing in EF is worth something .

[@em34ev3r]

spirit and mouz let DOWNS once again.

[@jeremyjacobs3539]

That VP debacle left a sour taste in regards to CS right now. Still love your shows

[@peachu7]

As much as I think Spirit is going to win the whole thing, short behind them for me is MOUZ. I've been watching all the matches starting with Katowice, and MOUZ is fucking INSANE. They've just got the best CS I've seen in a long time. I think we're going to see them in the finals, and then they could pull a miracle run and take the final against Spirit. If Spirit don't make it to the finals, I'd put money on spirit winning the major, and I don't gamble

[@peepopoo4387]

Mouz have a cakewalk to the Finals. I can easily see them winning this major.

[@Jerome-iwnl]

EF vs Navi is the most obvious one to me. Navi HAS TO WIN that natch or they'll have to cut people

[@laurentiumocacoca175]

Even if they win, they will cut ppl if they play bad. A good fight in semis or even finals and good performance for certain individuals is required. All of them need to perform if they want the roster to remain intact.

[@sentryion3106]

EF will sweep Navi if iM keeps playing like a bot. I think people are sleeping on EF by a little too much.

[@mariushager9983]

I think iM is gone regardless. You cant perform the way he does as the star for 9 months

[@laurentiumocacoca175]

He had pretty decent events , if you look bad at it. 1.1 or sum like this. This event was atrocious, but it wasnt that bad until now. He is taking star positions on CT, but on T, not really, he plays lurk or entry mostly. There is where he loses his rating.@@mariushager9983

[@laurentiumocacoca175]

The veto is quite good for Navi, if iM plays 0.75 rating, yeah. EZPZ for EF, if he posts a bad 1.0 rating, EF will go home.@@sentryion3106

[@Teknopup]

Now, call me crazy, but hear me out.. IF iM doesn't perform again, especially if they fall in the semis, then what if they either bench of allow him to look elsewhere, and sign boros? Blade and aleksi might be the guidance he needs and possibly the wakeup call. You can't deny his aim.... its not obviously my favoured choice, but is one that crossed my mind

[@laurentiumocacoca175]

Dont think so. I think that not the aim is the problem for im, its The gamesense, not good enough on timings when he is playing on T.

[@zettour.]

So either you solve a confidence issue or you solve an attitude issue? I think I'd take trying to fix iM over BOROS any day. Blad3 and Aleksib aren't really mentality-focused leaders. They're analytical, logical, and highly rational. Them somehow getting through to BOROS seems much more difficult than it should be for zonic and Lars Robl, who already failed. NAVI just need to work on it. This team was on the upward direction prior to Katowice and then something catastrophic happened. I'd say they give it one more event if they beat Eternal Fire. If they lose to Eternal Fire, iM needs to start looking for a possible new team.

[@laurentiumocacoca175]

I think they will beat EF and I hope iM will performe better, I think their psychologist need to work more with iM and it will be fine. Boros is not a player that is in their books imo. They need a player that is similar to ropz if they want to replace him, someone who is capable to take individual decisions.@@zettour.

[@ruiskuracing4551]

Jimpphat: hold my beer (apple juice since he is under 18)

[@singular9]

Making the decision of replaying that round against the rules would lead CS down the road of Formula 1 where one moron can easily screw up an entire season *cough* 2021

[@Vlipper2009]

thorin im enjoying your content for years, but you are interrupting people way to often

[@Reaching8]

The Jame crash was totally shit, I’m glad about the discussion in the video, and no one cares enough to read my take on it. That being said, the one good part about this is that G2 gets to have a Major stadium run with m0nesy, and I hope that he keeps performing. He’s dragged them kicking and screaming to this point at the event, he deserves to at least have a good stadium performance. Not that he’s never played in front of crowds before, but with how shit G2 has been for the last few Majors, he’d earned this one.

[@dayekh]

the only thing that's holding g2 right now is m0nesy, he is actually the new gen s1mple

[@zettour.]

​@@dayekhHas s1mple carried this hard before? If we take 2018 compared to the last 6 months, Zeus > HooXi, Edward = nexa, electronic = NiKo, flamie > huNter. NAVI were more consistent and s1mple was better than m0NESY is now so NAVI actually won tournaments while G2 is doing nothing. Please, someone save m0NESY from the same fate as s1mple in 2018.

[@mckinleyostvig7135]

G2 are winning the major because God and Jensen decided it.

[@pinkocean310]

I hope Zywoo recovers at least enough to have a banger series vs Spirit.

[@AthloneH]

Excellent content, especially during this major, but please @thorin stop talking over your guests, give them a chance to make their point! You don't have to jump in on every second sentence to talk over them to ensure everyone knows the point they are trying to make, you've already thought of and it's no surprise to you.

[@AstroSully]

34:27

[@ImaTip]

Ride and Die with FaZe

[@luckstur]

vamo

[@misterkefir]

faze down

[@danbarr000]

rip

[@melbifk]

We are so dead tomorrow 😅

[@singular9]

Vitality winning every final is copium and not even a real stat!

[@AstroSully]

They’ve won 6 finals out of the 7 they played in from 2022 to now 😂 "Not a real stat"

[@TheEventForumZ]

They have forgotten another recent trend, and that is FaZe has made the final in every CS2 event they went to. Well, we will see what happens on Saturday.

[@VikashSingh]

Donking time 👍

[@hotcherrysoda5981]

well

[@Prog47]

I kinda want a Faze - NaVi final with NaVi taking it. It would be so epic for aleksib but I would like s1mple to be the rifler. I think if they don't win he's replacing iM

[@landongrissom4852]

First I guess😮

[@dmitrykim3096]

Chopper and Donk were trying to win the game, but zontix pulled them back down. He is young and should stop giving arrogant interviews like he doesn't care, the pressure made him play like a noob

[@peasant_KARL1K]

Its life win 2 times FaZe fairytale end. Comeback vertigo so lucky 2 chance to close Spirit real before 12-12 ropz vs chopper broky vs 2. Fair ended hole team start to choke commentators notice...

[@Chexsum]

pffffft, g2 will not drop a map

[@caged3249]

I aren't think that

[@VikashSingh]

No, maps will drop G2 😛

[@IUHOI]

I like the level-headed take that it didn't 100% robbed VP. Because this gets overblown.