Are Textbooks Obsolete?

In which John discusses the astonishing cost of textbooks, and why they continue to be so ubiquitous despite an explosion of free educational resources. STUFF DISCUSSED:
Melinda and Bill Gates's Annual Letter discussing surprises from toilets to sexist data to textbooks: www.gatesnotes.com/2019-Annua...
Mathigon is so amazing. IT MIGHT CHANGE YOUR LIFE: mathigon.org/
Three Blue One Brown: / @3blue1brown
Khan Academy's geometry resources: www.khanacademy.org/math/geom...
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John's twitter - / johngreen
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Listen to The Anthropocene Reviewed at www.theanthropocenereviewed.org
Listen to Dear Hank and John at www.dearhankandjohn.org

[@vlogbrothers]

Hi! A few things: 1. Lots of people are talking about renting textbooks. You should not have to rent access to the world's knowledge! That is ludicrous! I am so horrified by some of your stories about how much your textbooks cost and how little value they add to your educational experience. 2. One thing I didn't say in the video that I wanted to: Textbook companies have big sales teams that are able to go to school districts and make the case for their products. Mathigon, meanwhile, has a staff of exactly one person. So resources like mathigon (and crash course) depend on users to tell their schools/school districts about them. If you're doing that, thank you! It has made such a big different for Crash Course and other edu projects. 3. Mathigon is amazing, by the way: mathigon.com 4. You can read the full Annual Letter from Melinda and Bill Gates here: www.gatesnotes.com/2019-Annual-Letter 5. The last thing I want to add is that it's important to remember that making educational materials expensive dispropotionately punishes the students and schools that have the fewest resources. Free educational materials should be in the business of trying to level the edu playing field. Thanks for watching. -John

[@pinkysaurusrawr]

+++++ for point #5

[@clayward2840]

Thanks John

[@CaioAtanasio]

John, last year you and other channels did a collaboration with the gates institution talking about their letter and I thought that all the videos were just super cool. The problem was, I had to already follow those Channels to know that. It would be super cool if you guys could coordinate a page listing all the videos talking about the letter or simply put the other links in the doublydoo

[@abigrace5998]

+

[@tenniscourt7097]

I love bubble butt

[@FutureNow]

They are the textbook definition of theft.

[@vlogbrothers]

A+++ -John

[@FutureNow]

@@vlogbrothers *takes a bow*

[@cocoabeanz6171]

yes.

[@michaelskinner1368]

O.o

[@andrewv5104]

Theft from whom? The writer that doesn't get paid for his efforts? Or the publisher that does a lot of work to distribute the material? Would the brothers Green give away all of the novels they write? Would they forfeit all the royalties to the movies created from those novels?

[@DuranmanX]

I especially dislike when you buy the textbook and it's only useful for its online code, which is required for taking the class

[@gabzz72]

Adrian Duran ughhhh thiss!

[@FutureNow]

Yup. Kills any resale value it had left.

[@qmartin1997]

Yes! So true. Preach.

[@danieljensen2626]

One time I bought a $250 book used because it was listed as coming with the online code I needed. No code was included so I had to spend another $150 just for that. The site I bought the book for just said "sorry, we list all similar books together, we can't be expected to check if 'book with online code' actually contains an online code. Also no returns, all sales are final." Then they gave me like $10 back. I've never been more insulted in my life.

[@vlogbrothers]

That is the crazy crap I have ever heard of. What a terrible, terrible way of distributing information. -John

[@Heeby-Jeebies]

The thing that kills me on this subject is that the publisher will regularly swap a chapter order, change literally no informational content, and in doing so force you to buy the latest edition. The 7th & 8th edition are almost always *exactly the same thing*, but with a new cover and now chapters 3 & 4 are switched!

[@vlogbrothers]

There is usually one more change, which is that the price has gone from $80 to $85. Because of all the work that went into switching those two chapters, presumably. :) -John

[@lilykep]

@@vlogbrothers Nah, the price when from $280 to $385.

[@splash__]

@@lilykep and when you try to sell edition 7 after using it, it is now only worth about $50.

[@Musicgirl42798]

That, and they switch the order of practice problems. So if a professor advises you do or assigns specific homework problems from the book, you will do all of the wrong ones and are basically forced to get the newest copy.

[@piteoswaldo]

Usually those kinds of order changes are based on feedback from the professors that use the book on class, either to be easier to follow or because some subject is more important and is better to be learnt before. Not everything is done out of bad faith.

[@rwhe423723]

Hi John, I've been a college instructor for a decade now in predominantly science-heavy courses (mostly anatomy & physiology), and much of the time the text books themselves don't really offer much for a modern learner. There are some books that come with subscriptions to interactive self-assessments that do a great job of allowing a student the opportunity to answer questions and potentially tease out misconceptions they may have with the material (and therefore highlight what they need to work on), but the "black and white text" within the chapters is... well, usually less important. Every semester I have students emailing me before the first class even meets, asking if the text book is "really necessary", or if older editions suffice (let's be real, A&P hasn't changed *that* much in the previous 2 years since the last version), and there are countless more students that simply do not have the book because paying for tuition was the extent of their financial ability to enroll in the course. And to make a better situation for all of my students, I always open the semester with a compiled list of resources that can expose them to the material in additional ways. Now, to prevent flak from my department, I never actually outwardly say that the textbook is useless, but instead I state that these additional resources can provide the same core information in ways that can be more approachable, more digestible, more effective than reading the chapters. These are things like Khan Academy or Crash Course, or resources like Quizlet and Quizizz, to various current news events that roughly involve topics of discussion, and even metacognitive skills and strategies for them becoming better students overall. And due to the students that go without the book leaning more into these resources out of necessity, they often perform better within the course and more importantly feel more confident and comfortable with the information. So yes, I believe that textbooks are obsolete. The prevalence of technology and science of learning should have already been steering us towards a pedagogy that is easier to relate to and materials that reflect that. It's gradually becoming a thing, at least within my fishbowl, but it isn't widespread enough yet unfortunately. See ya in the next video, friend. ~Ryan

[@vlogbrothers]

This is really fascinating, and thank you for sharing your experience, and also for your commitment to your students. -John

[@katiebidne6530]

As a person getting a PhD in physiology, I would have to agree! I do own (and use) textbooks, but they are for my reference as someone who is trying to explain and simplify the concepts for my students. For my research, any new and interesting information is from scientific literature, which at least I am already paying for via library fees.

[@ireallyhatemakingupnamesfo1758]

Can I see a driver's license to prove you're a real Ryan?

[@Nosirrbro]

At the moment, several of my professors are actively in the process of trying to phase out textbooks entirely, and I certainly think its a good thing (I managed to get all my books rented for cheaper but it still honestly feels a bit like a waste of money) Hopefully you'll someday get the same opportunity!

[@dahawk8574]

Textbooks are far worse than obsolete. They are a SCAM. It is akin to charging students $5 a bottle for one brand of bottled water, while requiring that this be the only way they can hydrate. It is a necessity, with their thirst for knowledge, yet the system fleeces them unnecessarily. The marginal cost for producing a pdf is 0¢, and this is exactly what students should be charged. If you're thirsty, there's a drinking fountain where you can drink to your heart's content. No charge at all.

[@Labredivigo]

Here in Belgium, most professors write their own textbooks and just provide us the pdf or charge only the printing costs.

[@vlogbrothers]

That is....not the system in the U.S. when professors write their own textbooks. (In fact, those tend to be the most expensive textbooks here.) -John

[@aashi8316]

That sounds amazing and super beneficial.

[@JochemKuijpers]

@@vlogbrothers my professors have more than once given me a PDF of a book for free because the book is USA-imported and crazy expensive. (yeah, given to us *by* the professor). Often students find the material elsewhere or the professors just incorporate all the material in their own lectures and simply cite the book instead of making everyone purchase it.

[@alexfurey4371]

@@vlogbrothers Can confirm. This was my experience as an American when the required textbook for a course was written by the professor. Ethics was required for my bachelor's degree, but I guess PhDs don't need it. *shrug*

[@knitterknerd]

Another thing involved in buying a textbook written by the professor in the US is that they can easily change it every single year, or even semester, requiring everyone to buy the book new, instead of getting a used one. And of course, you can't resell it, either. Oh, and it's printed and bound very cheaply, so it won't be good for long-term reference, either, if you're interested in that.

[@devonlejman1694]

Teacher-in-training here. This one got me. Textbooks have nothing to do with the way we want to teach, because we spend 4 years learning that that's not the way our students will want to--or even be able to, like in John's case--learn.

[@PaigeAKAPaper]

Fellow teacher chiming in, 100% agree

[@pendlera2959]

I helped my sister clean out her college stuff after she got her early childhood education degree and I was amazed at what her textbooks and handouts said. I was homeschooled because I was so stressed at school and I grew up thinking teachers were narrow-minded authoritarians who wanted to crush my spirit while shoving random facts down my throat, but her books told a completely different story - stuff about freeform play and using different senses to learn, gentle forms of discipline and behavior modification, how important movement and participation is, etc. I was like, if they had actually followed this, I wouldn't have needed to be pulled out of school! I find it ironic that the textbooks tell you how minor of a role book learning plays in education.

[@sarar4901]

Heck, my education textbooks were nearly useless outside of a few specific topics (statistics, mostly). I have my kids use the textbook set about twice a year when they have a sub or if I'm having difficulties with our technology.

[@devonlejman1694]

@ravenousglacier I definitely agree! Your experience is absolutely valid as well, but it's often the only experience classrooms are designed to accommodate. I'm also coming from a slightly unique pov, as I'll be teaching language arts, and we've seen that literacy is something that should always be practiced, rather than something that can be learned from theory in a textbook.

[@old-moose]

@ravenousglacier In 30 years of post-secondary teaching, I've always found a "textbook" learner or two in each of my classes just like the 1 or 2 "touch & feel" learners how need to draw, graph, or make models. Good teaching is presenting knowledge in ways that allow all kinds students to learn no matter what their style is.

[@SciJoy]

I hope it is more that the textbook industry is obsolete and not textbooks. I only made it through college by reading textbooks. I make educational videos that aren't behind a paywall and use captions, because I wanted more leaners to have access to educational materials. This is a life goal. I also run a giant community for online educational channels. I volunteer much of my time to pushing forward the online educational space. The benefits of visuals and interactions of online content are enormous. You can teach in new ways and really foster a better understanding of the material. However, to make many of the videos on my channel, I read textbooks, LOTS of textbooks. I have a subscription service to a repository of thousands of technical books. I couldn't afford to buy or rent all these books, which is the issue you raise and I totally agree with. There is something about both the depth and breadth of a textbook that helps me deep dive into a topic. It is hard to skim through online content looking for what I need. It is easier to use TOC, index, or even just search in a textbook. I hate the way the industry is run and how it is not cost effective for learners but I love textbooks. I read more textbooks than novels.

[@vlogbrothers]

This is a very interesting distinction and an important point, so I hope it ends up at the top. I think that the price of educational materials, whether they are printed books or online searchable books or multimedia tools like mathigon, should be either $0 or as close to $0 as an actually competitive market would allow them to become. But that doesn't mean that textbooks--or written guides to information--should go away. That distinction is very important. There's a history on the Internet of replacing things that don't work great (gatekeeper systems for information distribution, e.g.) with things that are maybe worse just in different ways. We can't do that when it comes to edu materials and their availability/distribution. -John

[@ahappilee]

+

[@JoycePinto]

+

[@ballinhamster3170]

Yes! I think this is clear when you look at online textbooks and homework. They are absolutely atrocious. I’ve had to drop a math class I easily could have passed if it was taught with physical books and homework. I’d actually passed it years earlier in high school and just needed to retake it for college credit. The worst part was we essentially had to learn through the online homework. Answering fill in the blank questions online is just inherently flawed as a testing tool, but it’s even worse when it’s how you’re supposed to learn the material. The term I took it, I just wasn’t able to deal with all the hoops the class was expected to jump through. I think online learning can work in some situations, but it has to be done well. The old fashioned way worked way better for me, at least with calculus. (Edit: just added a bit more context)

[@francislally6066]

+

[@NateandNoahTryLife]

Part of me understands that good research costs money, but it’s also increasingly apparent that textbooks are just another form of gate keeping in higher ed. The prices are high, Let’s not even mention the times where you buy a $300 textbook only to crack it open *once* in an entire semester. I have a few profs who have done away with them, and their students are certainly grateful. As John points out the burden of time in higher ed is also key. Working 2 jobs isn’t always conducive to going to university, I have a lot of respect for people that can work and go to school simultaneously.

[@Zineeta]

That would be so weird! I'm in my second year of college and we use textbooks every single week in just about every class.

[@danieljensen2626]

There is no "good research" involved in textbooks though, it's all just a cash grab. The people who actually research education do not work for publishing companies. Also, yeah, so far in grad school none of my classes have actually required a textbook. The professors just copy problems out of books and write their own, and tell us we can check the book out at the library if we really need it.

[@randomvideosn0where]

Many schools force professors to use a textbook, as a professor my mom got in trouble because she chose a $10 book for her class.

[@IMakeupStuff]

Not to mention that you get maybe a 1-5% return when you sell them back. Insanity.

[@DianaMcManaman]

But here's the thing - often the research was done decades ago and these "new editions" are just ghost writers copying and pasting what the actual writers wrote originally, and that is super not helpful, especially since pretty much every field is constantly growing and evolving as more information comes to light and the opinions of experts change in reaction to that information.

[@athenanguyen1290]

Lol, some of my professors write their textbooks and get us to buy them for class even though they barely use their own textbooks for class. Edit: I did not mean to imply all my professors. I was using a hyperbole for my professors that did this. Most of my professors are awesome and understand if you have to get a pdf because you can’t afford textbooks or don’t require the textbook

[@vlogbrothers]

So you pay tuition twice, essentially. -John

[@melonlord1414]

My informatics prof dit the same thing. And when we asked him if there is a way to make them cheaper, he said that he can't do it because the publisher sets the price. 2 weeks later, we found out, that he published it himself and the publisher he wrote on the book was just a dummy company that he owned. I didn't like that guy.

[@FieryAshes]

Athena! That is a thing that I had to do too. I'm so sorry. John is right, we basically paid tuition twice.

[@fishpilgrim]

Athena Nguyen It’s necessary, because MIT isn’t providing sufficient funding for their professors. Are they supposed to only have ONE vacation home?

[@lampje5185]

Any uni ever in belgium. Out of the 10 courses I have, only 2 textbooks have been nessecary. All others where basically a nice decoration.

[@joshuawalker7054]

At 45, you just motivated me to learn math. I barely passed basic Algebra so I may just walk the path you did.

[@vlogbrothers]

I hope mathigon (or something like it) works as well for you as it does for me! -John

[@aliiannucci3135]

I'm an Algebra teacher and having access to interactive sites has totally changed the way that my students and I think about math. Like John, said, there are so many "Whoa!! That's so cool!!!" moments that are hard to convey through textbooks but are so clear when you can watch it happen or interact with it yourself. Math is awesome but the way that it's been taught can make that hard to see. I fully support anything that will make an 8th grader in math class go "Oh that's cool! I get it!" Good luck with your path of continued learning!

[@Duessa2000]

Math is a language, if you missed some of the basic grammar and didn’t learn how to put together earlier sentences you will struggle using a textbook to learn... as you are essentially illiterate in the language. I’m a math teacher, and I find when students realise their struggles are not because they “can’t get math” but because they missed some vocabulary/grammar along the way, they are more willing to put in the practice to fill in those gaps and are more successful with math moving forward

[@carly7958]

Not saying this is a good example, but I went through about 10 AP courses in high school barely reading textbooks and got 5s on 8/10 of those APs because I had good teachers and I watched a lot of extra material on youtube. Might not be role model behavior, but a good indicator (to me) that textbooks are truly not as important as teachers/good teaching is.

[@theCodyReeder]

Literally the only time I've ever read a textbook is when the professor would go around the room making each student read a page out-loud to the class. Got through a whole computer science book that way and do I know how to code? lol no.

[@Fooglmog]

Uh... is this the annual financial update? Because that's some jacket.

[@vlogbrothers]

Sarah said I should wear the jacket, and I do like the jacket, so I wore it. She said it would make me look like I knew what I was talking about. -John

[@fortheloveofLDS]

+ I had the same thought!

[@sexyscientist]

Isn't it supposed to be semi-annual?😄

[@Fooglmog]

@@vlogbrothers I didn't mean to insult the jacket. It's a nice jacket. Sarah has excellent taste. I simply felt it was somewhat discordant with the persona you usually choose to portray on youtube. -Jon

[@ionacmitchell]

vlogbrothers it worked :D

[@yessopie]

As you say, "in many cases they are not as comprehensive as textbooks". In many cases they are not anywhere near as comprehensive as textbooks. Listening to someone talk is fine for learning simple things, or for having a cursory understanding of a complex topic, and maybe textbooks are not useful for elementary schools or high schools, or certain university programs. But in advanced mathematical or scientific topics, lectures are practically useless, because the topics take much longer to understand than the three hours or so per week devoted to lecture. And fun interactive click-and-point learning is totally unavailable. If I'm trying to study a proof of a theorem in point-set topology, I want a textbook. Everything will be laid out perfectly, step by step, and I can take as much time as I need to figure it out. I don't want to have to try to scribble down notes as fast as I can as the professor races over the steps of the proof, and then go home and try to understand it from just my notes and my memory.

[@vlogbrothers]

I absolutely agree that we need textbooks (or multimedia versions of what we now call textbooks) to facilitate learning in a systematic way. What I don't think is that those textbooks (or whatever they'll be called) need to cost $300. They should cost $30, at the most, because they should not be businesses that are incentivized to maximize profit; they should be businesses that are incentivized to maximize access. On the subject of topology, I wonder if you'd taken a few minutes to race through the mathigon course on dimensions and distortions and tell me if you think an expanded version for higher level students could be helpful or comprehensive. -John (mathigon.org/world/Dimensions_and_Distortions)

[@pedroparamodelvalle6751]

This

[@TacticusPrime]

But that textbook doesn't need to be a *book*. Digital interactive educational materials are a thousand times superior to flat dead textbooks.

[@yessopie]

@@vlogbrothers Thank you for your prompt reply. This Mathigon page looks to me like a textbook, but rendered in HTML and taking advantage of that medium with some animated images. I'm on board with that. Most of my textbooks are digital versions anyway (PDF), so that I can read them anywhere on my phone. There's no reason these books couldn't be enhanced with hyperlinks, tooltips, animations, videos, and interactive figures. I guess we can argue over the semantic question: do we still call them books? Much of the art of arranging a topic into a book is to present the topic pedagogically, that is, in such an order so that the reader is only expected to know what is earlier in the textbook. My only apprehension about Mathigon is that it seems to be arranged into articles, without the hierarchical part / chapter / section / subsection arrangement of a book.

[@ilovebats10]

I wouldn't go so far as to say lectures are useless in advanced science/math. I agree that textbooks can be helpful but I think really you learn from doing the problem sets in those kinds of classes. In my graduate physics classes I would read an occasional page or two of the textbook that was helpful solving a specific problem, but I got most of my base understanding needed to start problem sets from the lectures.

[@ObsidianMadness]

Down with the Pearson Monopoly.

[@davidchidester5463]

AKA myConLab.

[@devonlejman1694]

I attend an English teachers' conference every year, and a 4 years ago there was a protest against the Pearson booth in the publishers' space. We're all over it.

[@harrison6082]

MyMathLab (mml) is aweful. If a prof says all homework will be with mml, I will withdraw. I'm done wasting my time. That year and a half is never coming back. I really wish more ppl would come out about it.

[@harrison6082]

@@davidchidester5463 Pewdiepie in one if his videos said it made him want to quit college

[@Belton81cougars]

They even control the teacher process bro shits crazy

[@murodmahkamov359]

Every semester I have to buy books for Pearson and it's only available for 6 month( you can't go back and read it). I have to buy books from Pearson because its a requirement. I think this companies stilling money from already poor college students.

[@hanabarrett6046]

Me too, it's so annoying.

[@patricksimpson1725]

AGREED.

[@Q_QQ_Q]

just photocopy the required topic or online free download .

[@lou2850]

You have no idea how much I've appreciated these videos in the past year, thanks John and Hank!!

[@carlaafonso6194]

My favourite thing about the month of February is Bill and Melinda' s annual letter. I was just waiting John to annunce it as he does every year so that I know it was released

[@JaysonMcLeod]

I totally agree with this. As a teacher I think our math text books are wonderful resources, kids ability to learn from them isn’t. Sometimes when I don’t know the content off hand I can read through the text book and figure it out quickly, but many kids just haven’t developed that ability yet. As teachers we need to figure out more ways to connect students with resources that accommodate their needs

[@drakan4769]

though that might be because you've already read that textbook before and know what you're looking for, textbooks might be good for re-checking something you already know, but their use is more limited for learning something from scratch.

[@benjaminvingborg3145]

From a curriculum standpoint there is something nice about learning from a textbook. I think the moving goal-posts of online tools could be difficult in some fields. As a medstudent I love to have a few singular places to go for the answers I need for my exams even if they might not always be perfect truth.

[@vlogbrothers]

Right, but wouldn't you like it more if those textbooks were searchable and also cost the amount they should cost, which is nothing? It is absolute madness to me to charge students who are learning how to be doctors for the information they will need to be doctors. Especially when the information itself *is freely available*; it's just not freely available in a perfectly organized or widely distributed way. -John

[@benjaminvingborg3145]

@@vlogbrothers You are right of course. The few books I have electronically are a dream to use. Being able to doodle and erase infinitely directly in a textbook is a different learning experience entirely. I am lucky education is free around here but textbooks for medical school still total at around $8000 in the end. I think some price is necessary as most of my books have to curate the closest thing to scientific truth we have. One would think a thing like anatomy is fully understood but when it comes to a lot of the details answers are difficult to find and in many cases the deciding voice is the textbook. You could of course argue that this is precisely the reason we need books that are easy to update as knowledge changes especially in the case of medicine.

[@lavachebeadsman]

I teach Freshman Comp, and we are required by the university to assign textbooks which can run anywhere from fifty to a hundred and fifty dollars. Hardly any of my colleagues actually use the books, and those who do use them very sparingly. It's an absurd waste of money and it's one of the many consequences of allowing corporate enterprise to gain a stranglehold over American education.

[@marcielston3019]

I rolled up my sleeves in my 40's to prove my youthful "I suck at math!!" mantra was also wrong, I was just going through so much crap as a kid to have the time or interest. Kahn Academy for the win, there. Textbook authors and publishers are rolling in the dough, and it will be hard to get them to give that up.

[@nekrataali]

Schools (at least when I was growing up) are also really bad at teaching math. Specifically, you practice problems, memorize rules and shortcuts, and so on, without doing much in the way of what professional mathematicians actually do or research. The main goal of most schools is to set students up to eventually learn calculus, which doesn't help a kindergartner understand why they should learn addition. Then that student falls behind because they don't see the point, which means they're now off track on the path to calc. What mathematicians do as professionals and researchers are proofs to help us find useful applications for numbers, which is something most people won't get to do until they're almost in graduate school. This is like having students memorize how to make acrylic paint, what different types of paint brushes are called, what the names of various colors are, how to stretch a canvas, maybe do some finger painting, and so on without being allowed to actually paint with a brush on canvas or even draw with a pencil until they're almost 19 years old. Even then, they're only allowed to do paint by number. That's obviously a terrible way to teach painting, which is actually taught by introducing basic techniques on how to handle materials for less than a year before students jump right into rendering images of people, landscapes, abstract concepts, etc. All the other technical stuff are used as tools to help a student achieve their goals for whatever they want to paint. So imagine if we taught math like we taught art: think of a problem you want to solve as a student and then you're given the tools to learn how to solve those types of problems. Computer Science is largely taught this way, with very little time being spent on the technicalities of different languages (which would bore everyone to death). And CS is basically practical applications of algebra and calculus.

[@marcielston3019]

@@nekrataali Thank you for the enlightening reply!

[@GotWrackspurts]

My experience with textbooks is much different to that described in the video. In high school, i wish I'd discovered how fantastic the math textbooks were earlier. Each chapter had a final section summarizing the new information of it and that was incredibly useful when studying. Maybe it's a regional thing. I'm currently attending uOttawa for CS and have spent at most 1k on textbooks (for ~30 courses). This may be more of a tech thing, as many believe in freedom and accessibility of information, and so upload pdfs for people to freely download. Additionally, some textbooks have been significantly better than some profs. With textbooks, you go at your own pace, and can easily rewind to double check information. Textbooks dont have strong accents either and generally are more effective at phrasing content. I do absolutely adore some of my profs, but others pick textbooks that are more effective than they are.

[@RangerRuby]

Ahhh. Textbooks are one of the most stressful things to acquire at the beginning of the year. I am a homeschooler and take schooling through online resources and I need textbooks. The process of buying, ordering, paying for, and everything makes it seem like the world doesn't want you to have that textbook. Then, after a month, you forget about the whole experience until next year. It's a vicious cycle.

[@dementedferret6116]

I do enjoy learning from a textbook, especially if it explains things in a logical way and spells out exactly what the syllabus requires. I think we should work to make textbooks cheaper, but not remove them entirely. It makes self-studying so much easier. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[@the-kkranberry]

I’m very grateful for my upper-division professors in college, who put up almost all of our readings online as PDFs in our digital class portal. I think there was only one upper-division class for my major where I actually had to buy a book. Part of this is due to the privilege of what I was studying, as I don’t think STEM departments would have made that move. Still, I had three professors in particular who went out of their way to help us avoid paying for textbooks, and I am beyond appreciative of it.

[@icedog225]

I can't speak for other STEM majors, but as a computer science major, I've seen the same thing in my upper-division courses. There's lots of great online resources for programming which my professors have assigned, and many of my professors have also provided us with PDFs as well.

[@blockkids]

I’m a junior on college, and last year I stopped buying textbooks. They are expensive, and I rarely seemed to use them. Since I’ve stopped buying textbooks (3 semesters), I have only gotten A’s or A-‘s in my classes. This may not work for everyone, but I found that searching hard online for the information that would have otherwise been right in front of me, helped my retention of the subject. Of course there are still some professors that require you to pay $150 for an access code for you to be able to do your homework. That’s something that I will never be okay with.

[@jgrocketpup]

Open Education is more or less my job, and you've still given me some things to think about. We can't just address cost, we need formats to fit new styles of teaching. Openness (in the CC sense) helps with this inherently, but it will take platforms, funding, and a lot of well intentioned time for resources to meet instructors where they are in 2019.

[@vlogbrothers]

Yes, yes, and yes. We need big philanthropy to move into OER, but we also need platform-builders and structures to build up around the content (including, like, sales teams) to make them truly competitive with what Pearson is doing. Thanks for doing the work you do! -John

[@ABBooklover777]

@@vlogbrothers This is why I'm so excited that Libre Texts got $5M in funding from the federal government to support the development of more interactive, adaptable OER! We are approaching that future! And it is amazing. As an OER Librarian this is one of the most exciting years to see how we'll continue to make learning better and more affordable for our students in K-12 and higher ed.

[@ERYN__]

Love the use of "ain't"

[@vlogbrothers]

I only pull it out in rare occasions, but it's in the toolbox! :) -John

[@ellap6828]

Hi John! I just wanted to say, I'm a huge fan (and, admittedly, idolizer) of yours, especially because I suffer from pretty major anxiety, even though I'm only a teenager. I just recently re-read TatwD, and related to it more than ever. Having a figure to look up to, who struggles with OCD and is still able to be successful, really brings me hope; thank you so very much. I was just obsessing/getting anxious over something stupid as usual, and IMMEDIATELY when I clicked on this video and saw you slide into frame, within the first few seconds, I felt an amazing sense of relief. I don't know why, I don't even know what the video is about yet, but just seeing your face was enough to provide me a very needed respite from the anxiety. You just reminded me that it will all be okay (hopefully), and that it will all (hopefully) get better; that there IS hope.Thank you.

[@azurebreezes]

I am in a Master's degree program for New Media Journalism which costs $20,000 a year and financial aid only offers student loans. I was taking a Media class that required an expensive textbook that the Professor not once used or referred to in the entire course! Why demand we get this textbook for a class when we never used it in the class?

[@amberbydreamsart5467]

My experience is that my most boring classes in college were the ones that drew most heavily from the textbooks, and that almost all the textbooks I rented, I never read. I was an animation major, though, so the actually useful books my animation professors told us to get never cost more than $30, and still use while working in animation today sometimes as an excellent foundation to work off of, whereas for my art history 2 class I rented a textbook for about $150, and used two pages of it for essays in the class, and otherwise passed all the tests based on paying attention to the lectures Not to mention the high school concern over the recency of some textbooks.. in 2010 I did get to keep my French textbook when the year ended, because the school was getting new french textbooks.. because ours still taught prices in francs. Textbooks can be a great resource to help learn and keep learning a subject you wish to absorb deeply, but are not worth having around past the relevant class or paying the price for in college for classes you are not interested in going that extra mile in, I think

[@Zineeta]

Yes, text books are stupidly expensive. But I still really enjoy them. My daughter is in 7th grade and instead of text books she gets pdfs that don't always explain the concepts. She is not given tools to study further or review from. Even she misses the textbooks she used to use. All my college textbooks are digital and I love that but we still need them for structured, liner learning.

[@parazita89]

Always a pleasure to follow your vlogs guys. Thanks :)

[@ABBooklover777]

As an Open Education Librarian I was amazed and excited to see this topic addressed by John but I'd also like to note that textbooks can be incredibly useful as a model for conveying information in fields like Math and Physics. One of the reasons I love OpenStax and other open textbook publishers is that they provide resources in formats we are familiar with along with (and this is also an exciting point for homeless students and those without internet) low cost print options! Yes, you can access an OER free online, but you can also print it for the cost of printing, from $10-$60 depending on color/bw and softcover/hardcover. We can have our cake and eat it too! Or in this case, free textbooks.

[@CardCarryingPsycho]

For those of us that just click on subscriptions page and watch videos, Premiers are a tease. I LOOKS like a video I can watch from a creator I am subscribed to, but it isn't. I won't miss your video, I will get it the next time I log on to KZbin. This Premier thing just causes frustration...

[@toobusytocreateaname]

Josh Mansfield +

[@abigrace5998]

-

[@abigrace5998]

My brother homeschooled for his senior year of high school. My parents bought his textbooks from a private school curriculum and it cost thousands of dollars. Now, my sister and I go to an online high school with interactive learning, along with online textbooks, and it's all completely free.

[@argentpuck]

Is your online school any good? Not being offensive. There was an online charter "school" here in Ohio for several years that collected a lot of tax dollars but provided basically no education or accountability to students or the school board. It's left me rather skittish about such things.

[@twilliams2558]

This is the coolest thing I’ve seen in a while thank you for making these points and good luck in future learning!

[@AmeliaBell28]

This is so good, especially the emphasis on not replacing or devaluing teachers. When I think about my education, I rarely think about the things I simply read in a textbook, but instead about the people who helped me understand them and expand my knowledge in ways books can't. Also, snazzy jacket there, John!

[@consoleking9670]

I had to pay $250 for a textbook. It wasn’t even bound, I needed to buy a binder to put the pages in. I couldn’t resell because it’s loose leaf. I never used it for another class.

[@benjaminvingborg3145]

I must say there is something about the language of a textbook that makes my heart sing. That perfectly precise academic language is rivaled only in poetry. I love a good defenition of an abstract concept.

[@danieljensen2626]

All the good textbooks like that were written like 50 years ago though.

[@kejiakayouroldersister]

wow do I love these kinds of videos. hank and John, you two inspire me.

[@Teefs001]

I’m actually tearing up. I see you as such an impeccably intellectual person and to hear you express your struggle with high school math was a much needed reminder that needing to learn something a different way doesn’t always equate to being a stupid/lazy student. Did I already know this? In theory yes, but to be able to experience a similar struggle with someone I deem extremely smart is a kind and needed reality check. Thank you.

[@KerryHallPhD]

As a university engineering professor, I've stopped requiring textbooks.

[@MW-qt1ml]

THANK YOU

[@KevinBuritica]

You didn't account for A Very Hungry Caterpillar sales John.

[@harveyts3]

My nursing textbooks this year have cost over 3k for nursing school. They are composed of all the information you can get online but you need the specific text to pass the tests. Because of the changes to little details, you need to know for the tests that are based specifically on the books used.

[@ralphlivingston894]

I don’t watch you guys nearly as often as I used to. It’s nothing you’ve done or haven’t done, life goes on. I just wanted to say that you are both incredibly inclusive and I am fascinated by what you say because of how you say it. Great job! Keep it up.

[@thewinterizzy]

I agree with a lot of this but I also think it mildly ignores that this assumes every student has access to online resources as a replacement for textbooks. This isn’t wholly an online vs. physical textbook debate though since as mentioned not everyone can afford textbooks as is. Whyyyyy can educational resources not be more reasonably accessible and affordable. 😩

[@vlogbrothers]

Thanks for pointing out the very important fact that lots of people don't have internet at home (and many schools don't have/use high speed internet). But I agree that you don't solve for that problem by having $80 textbooks and requiring schools to buy new editions every year. I think textbooks can be cheaper AND online resources can become more widely available. The second is definitely happening; the first is not happening yet. -John

[@thewinterizzy]

vlogbrothers for sure. It’s like solving one problem by replacing it with another problem instead of a solution - but, we ARE problem-solving... just gotta get to the best answer/balance. 🤔

[@fishpilgrim]

our public library got a friend of mine through elementary and middle school without a computer or internet access, even with the huge amount of online content we used. it’s not the most convenient option, but it’s certainly doable.

[@user-er8le9hn6v]

@@fishpilgrim the fact that the public library is an inconvenient option is itself a problem that should be addressed. Libraries can offer free access to far more than just information, and privatization attacks against them are destructive to the entire local communities they serve.

[@NeuroticKnight9]

@@vlogbrothers For 80$ one can get a kindle and download PDFs on to it.

[@Liz_Crowley]

Another important factor is how immediately textbooks become worthless. My freshman year of college, I was forced to buy a textbook that was over $150. We NEVER used the book- and at the end of the semester, the bookstore would not buy my completely untouched textbook back. That was four years ago. I just checked how much that book was selling for on amazon- it's less than $20.

[@Meloncov]

For some rapidly-evolving subjects that's reasonable, but it's utterly ridiculous for a Calc 1 class where the subject matter hasn't changed since Newton.

[@ronpond]

I am so happy to hear you've come to have a better relationship with math! I love math a lot, and I always feel bad that the way we tend to teach it prevents so many students from developing any sort of regard for it. Glad to see that doesn't need to be the end of the story.

[@Iangray27]

This is a very great subject to speak on I love the point you made about the value of teacher student relations, in addition to usefulness of textbooks. I am in my second year of my under-graduate degree and have had three completely different experiences with textbooks and teachers. For instance in the current semester I am in an intermediate statistics class and the textbook we have is one the professor made using the statistical program R, with this he also gave us the file to edit ourselves to “make it our own” final n his words. Comparatively, in a pervious semester the text was a necessity because of the shear volume of information we would go over in the semester for my history of psychology course. Lastly, the worst experience was with an American history class where the professor required the text book but never referenced the book once throughout the entire course and then,at the end of the semester, the university would purchase the book back from me. I believe there are great things that can be learned from textbooks, although using the textbook properly to learn the most from it is the most important thing to be taught.

[@waffle2434]

idk when it comes to college and university I think it really depends upon what the class is about, and if you think you will use the book again later in life. At least that is what my grandmother told me to do when I went to University, she said: "Only buy the books specifically for your major, that you feel you'll use again." And so far I feel she was right, books like my International Law Book, and my CPO book that breaks down the different levels of relationships between and within middle eastern countries, have really come in handy over the years😅 ..... Also **Pro University Tip:** Most textbooks that are required by your classes will be available in the library (either online or as a physical copy) so you can just rent them for free for the entire semester😉 this becomes least true by your senior year, but you should always check the library first before buying a book.

[@lyreparadox]

Don't forget about inter-library loans, too!

[@Evanna11LilyLuna]

You can also often buy the books secondhand (from people a year above you, or online), and in the same way sell them when you don't need them anymore.

[@vJorddan]

Yes! Access codes are terrible as well. For one you don't get to keep the resource you paid for. Second they are ridiculously expensive. You pay $130 for "textbook" and " interactive active activities" that are not at all helpful for when the actual test comes around. It's absolute rubbish.

[@PennyKavon]

So glad you made this video! As a person who did not receive a full education due to family/religious reasons growing up, I was constantly searching for ways to educate myself in an economical and simple way. When I got to college I discovered that a) the textbooks we were required to purchase were never used in any of the classes I took (I know this is not the case for all colleges and classes, but it was my experience), and b) they cost more collectively than the classes themselves, plus transportation to and from school, meals and materials needed for the classes. So basically the thing I spent the most of my money on in college was the thing I didn’t use once to educate myself, at the instruction of professors. Also when I tried reading the required textbooks I found they were mostly outdated and had so many grammatical and spelling errors they were harder to read. Hence the teachers not using them in the actual curriculum. I’d be happy to learn from a textbook if it was priced appropriately and actually assisted in my education

[@skoolie_life3261]

John Green I love your Crash Course History vids and so did my students!

[@JosephLSelby]

Loooong-time nerdfighter, 16-year veteran of educational publishing with a focus in digital learning applications, and a master of science in instructional design and technology with a focus in interactive learning. I love the call to think of things Complexly and I'm heartbroken by how little this video does to address the topic in a complex manner. There's plenty of data that supports and contradicts your various points. There are experts in your community that would happily talk to you about the topic, because A) we love it, and B) you just made a four-minute video that didn't advance the discussion in a meaningful way. If you want something to whet your appetite for more, watch Rick Wormelli's video on rethinking the value of a 0.

[@only20frickinletters]

Congrats on figuring out tessellations!

[@vlogbrothers]

Thanks! It is so interesting and beautiful to think about which shapes tesselate and why! -John

[@alanaharris6972]

This is why things like small class sizes and accessible tutors are so important in every learning environment, not just in college. If a student is having trouble with the curriculum, they should be able to talk to their teacher directly, not have to struggle through by themselves. If we, as students, should have to wade through a bunch of material that isn't *really* necessary to a class, then we should also be able to talk to our teachers about other ways to learn when we just don't get it.

[@emilyhennessey8294]

This video got me, John. I taught for 5 years. Often we would have text books sitting in our classroom and we wouldn't even touch them. The district spent thousands of dollars on them and they would sit in my supply closet. I can tell you that one year we were allowed to browse through various math textbook options before we purchased them as a district and none of the options were good. After we bought them I still can't say that we used them more than half of the time. Also thank you for validating me as an educator.

[@philiptouw3623]

So just because I'm wondering, what prompted relearning math, john? Math is not my favorite subject, putting it lightly. So I can't imagine willingly sitting down and trying to relearn it after trying to and not doing well.

[@saphira8080]

I think it has something to do with proving 'something'. Proving that you are smart enough, proving that you can master a challenge, proving that you are not to old for stuff. That and also just a natural hunger to learn and understand.

[@Nadia1989]

Helping his kids with the homework?

[@RyanStorey1231]

He's rich, therefore he has more time on his hands.

[@vlogbrothers]

I wanted to learn about math for two reasons: First, I was building a treehouse for my kids, and I wanted to understand how we calculate the angles at which we cut certain pieces of wood to make them fit into other pieces of wood, which turns out to be somewhat complex math (at least for me!). Secondly, math is a really important way through which we understand the universe. And I've always felt like it's a big blind spot for me--without high school math, you can't even really understand the concepts in higher mathematics that help us to know, for instance, how far apart the stars are, or how sound travels through air. I wanted to be able to conceptualize that sort of thing better. -John

[@ornous]

Hey, I'm also relearning Maths and having similar experiences to how Hank described. Got so excited by how elegant the whole approach is. Being able to correlate concepts with my experience of the world is part of the reason, I guess. I also hated the subject in school and would never have seen myself doing it 2, 5 or 10 years ago but now it is part of everything I do. Juggling, Music, Cooking, Baking, Coding, etc. I don't think it has much to do with his being relatively rich. I initially just watched a video a month because it was so uncomfortable not understanding why it was cool. I only started getting the benefits about 6 months later as I ramped my consumption up.

[@patblack781]

And here I am sitting and copy pasting the email adresses of the members of the European Parliament to convince them to change their mind about Article 13 so that I will be able to watch videos like this in the future

[@kajamas]

waait what does that mean for videos???

[@itsginn]

@@kajamas basically that you won't be able to watch any videos if the creator doesn't own 100% of it or the pictures, clips, music, etc. in it

[@patblack781]

@@kajamas That KZbin will possible prevent the upload of all videos that it thinks could have copyright content. And that would be MANY videos

[@zacm.2342]

I should probably be doing that too, Article 13 just pisses me off (Among other things but let's leave them out cause I don't want to rant here).

[@patblack781]

@@zacm.2342 Just go to saveyourinternet.eu and contact the members of the European Parliament!

[@KnowledgePerformance7]

Thanks for this video! As a jr in high school getting stressed out about having to do college stuff this is really great

[@pinkysaurusrawr]

I try not to spend too much time thinking about this, because I also have no idea how it plays out or how to fix it, and it's really frustrating for me. As someone who went K-12 in Texas public school and is in my last semester of university (I'm actually graduating and I'm panicking if any nerdfighters have good post-grad life advice, hit me with it), I am and have been constantly subjected to the frivolity of textbooks. I've had university classes where my professors have said "we won't use the textbook so don't buy it, I was just required to put one on the syllabus." I've also been very lucky because I've had many many professors scan chapters from textbooks, from regular books, from academic articles, etc. and post the materials to our class pages, which is totally illegal, but professors completely understand that students need to be able to access information at a reasonable cost. In high school, I had a class that used khan academy in place of our textbook. I had another class that relied entirely on online lectures from a chemistry professor at Ohio State who ran a flipped classroom - we used all his lectures and also had a flipped classroom (meaning you watch lectures at home and do practice/lab/problems in class time when your teacher can help) and didn't use the book. I learned a ton in both of those classes. Thanks for making this video, I am glad to have a conversation about this, and also to hear about all the awesome free online tools for learning things, cause I love learning things.

[@hanabarrett6046]

That flipped classroom thing sounds genius

[@pinkysaurusrawr]

@@hanabarrett6046 I was so skeptical at first but 10/10 recommend, I learned so much better that way

[@theocrimby]

Textbook and e-text costs and accessibility could improve. But, are interactive software and e-texts actually better for learning? What influences successful retention and class completion? Additionally, there are many questions that need to be observed before asserting that physical texts are obsolete. Some are rhetorical. Are all textbooks created equally? Do physical textbooks or e-texts show higher rates of retention? What influence does the context and structure of a class have on the utility of textbook and e-text learning? What influence does the subject of a class have on the utility of textbook and e-text learning? What influence do good study habits of the student have on textbook and e-text learning? Is it the medium of the material or the student that influence poor retention? Which has a greater influence on the outcome of learning/success in the class: the structure of the class or the circumstance of the student? I learn best through prudent study of textbook and e-text material-not so much through lecture or interactive activity i.e. software and student group activity. I find interactive activity annoying most of the time. I took a statistics class and realized I never needed to go to class except for quizzes and exams because everything I needed to know was right in the book-which I read and internalized fervently. I think it’s more important to focus on being a judicious student with good study habits rather than the medium by which a student receives the material. I find that if you figure out what you need to know and do to pass the class, then seek that information mostly through the syllabus and lecture slides, the teacher becomes irrelevant not the textbook. This somewhat reflects the structure of online classes. The syllabus and lecture slides sometimes tell you more than a teacher does. Though, I feel more academic study and analysis is needed before coming to a generalized proposition.

[@jma543_8]

When is hankgames coming back John?

[@vlogbrothers]

Hopefully soon. I have been swamped with work but we are scheduled to shoot some later this week. -John

[@bellewood681]

I was recommended this, and I wanted to give my thoughts on the matter. I am currently a college student at a Community College and I am rather alarmed at what I am experiencing in regard to "textbooks." I put that in quotations because, for the most part, there aren't really that many courses that supply text books; it's mostly ebooks, i.e. online textbooks. The college has made a huge push in the last several years to wean off physical books and transfer to online partly because so much can be accessed online and partly because it is cheaper. However, cheaper doesn't mean better. I have an eye disability that makes reading on a computer for long periods of time a very bad idea. I know this because I tried to read from ebooks for 3 classes last semester and I got horrible headaches. I have it in my accommodations that I require physical books, but I am concerned about students who don't have disabilities that just learn better with a physical book over an online one. While I do agree with you that the textbook *industry* won't really go away (that's not to say it doesn't have its own problems that need to be addressed), I think the main conflict going forward will be over cost concerning physical vs online. Even though the online option is cheaper, it may not be the best for all students, so the physical option still needs to be available for those that need it, or just want it.

[@moiradarling97]

Additional comment, I’m so thankful for vlogbrothers videos. I clicked on KZbin because my mom was leaving with my 15 year old dog to take her to get check out and most likely put down. When I clicked on the app the first video I saw was this one and it really helps. Thanks(: I hope your day is going great.

[@Christina-xv7ml]

Hi I'm kinda confused: do you have to buy all the books for every subject every year? I'm from Germany and we just borrow the books from the school and give them back at the end of the year...

[@simmerheart3615]

You borrow them from the school up until college. In college, you have to buy them.

[@sampines5494]

College Student here. Generally speaking, usually the answer is yes. Now I’ve been lucky enough to have rich parents who will pay for my textbooks, but many students don’t have that. For this semester alone my total textbook cost was $250. And I rented all the ones I could.

[@Christina-xv7ml]

@@simmerheart3615 oh okay thanks

[@Christina-xv7ml]

@@sampines5494 god that really is expensive thanks for the explanation

[@katharinelovegood6554]

I am also from Germany, curtently at uni and most textbooks we need have "free" digital copies you can download from the library with your student ID. You just need a tablet , which one can get for like 100 bucks, or even read on your phone/pc. They definetly do not force you to buy it😊 There are also always physical copies, though the University of course does not have one for all 500 students doing a certain course.

[@GreaterBookWyrm]

Once upon a time, I asked my dad why college textbooks are so expensive. I felt the answer he gave was both sad and true. He told me that teachers are largely underpaid, so they try to make up the difference by publishing textbooks for their classes. By publishing those books they supplement their income, and can force the students to buy them by requiring them in their classes, and they can make sure the students always buy the books rather than renting or reselling them by publishing an "Updated" version every few years when the books start to become too wide in circulation. The long and short of it is, if we paid our teachers more we'd probably have fewer expensive textbooks.

[@crochetingcanuck]

None of my college textbooks were written by the teachers. What's the excuse for those?

[@fishpilgrim]

GreaterBookWyrm are you talking about somewhere outside of the US? bc university professors in the US got an avg. of $75,430 annually in 2016 (according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics) so i would argue they are in no way underpaid... especially compared to primary education teachers who get Way less and still manage not to exploit their students through textbooks.

[@cshansell]

I've actually worked at colleges that try to address this, and won't let teachers assign their own books to the class. There are some state requirements in some places that force teachers to have textbooks listed in the course outline. The community colleges I work at are encouraging instructors to move away from expensive textbooks, and providing us links to open sourced resources instead.

[@danieljensen2626]

I don't think this is actually true. I had professors write their own books but they were all only like $30. And the professors definitely didn't get any money for them anyway because the University owns the publishing rights to any book they write. I think it's mostly when large corporate publishers get their hands on a book that they become expensive and release new editions every year.

[@V3rnie]

Most faculty don't get any kickbacks for the books they use. The only way faculty are making money is if they're assigning a textbook they authored.

[@tardisblue5433]

The thing is I am trying to sketch daily and your videos have become my muse; sometimes I sketch you or Hank quickly sometimes the books on the shelf or pictures on the wall. I am learning a lot of cool things besides having fun while drawing ☺️

[@melonlord1414]

I`m learning Japanese right now and I did so for quite some time on my own. I just started taking classes again and the difference in how you learn it is really astonishing. When I learned on my own, there where some parts that I immediately got really good in, but a lot of other stuff newer really made it into my brain. With a teacher however, things stick way more evenly.

[@beccalanning6370]

Weird that you can write a comment before it even comes out

[@emilyscloset2648]

Science!

[@lucidmoses]

Text books do better at teaching the learner things they didn't know they needed to know. Sure there are electronic structured class that can do that but they are still not the norm. I very much think they should be but hey. Right now, we are left with books and structured classes. :(

[@vlogbrothers]

This is an important point, but I'd argue tools like mathigon.com also do a really good job of teaching the learner things they didn't know they needed to know. You'll never get that experience just browsing on KZbin, but I'm not convinced that textbooks are the only way. -John

[@danieljensen2626]

I don't think most people will learn anything from a textbook that their teachers don't make them learn. Perhaps it's just my learning style, but I view textbooks mainly as a set of homework problems so that the teacher doesn't have to create their own, and some additional information needed to solve the homework problems so the teacher doesn't have to explain every problem to everyone. There's no real reason a different resource couldn't do the same or better.

[@lucidmoses]

@@danieljensen2626 I agree, IF the world was as you viewed it then your conclusions would be correct.

[@BThings]

You talk about how vital the “person-to-person” work of teachers is. As someone who has always done well in school, but who has also always chaffed at the way school works, I find that the effectiveness of a teacher for a student is often based on that teacher liking, or at least tolerating, that student, and the student feeling similarly about the teacher. While I have done well in classes almost to spite the teacher, I usually don’t feel I’ve learned very much in them-grade performance doesn’t always suggest learning-and the class as a whole would usually be an unpleasant experience. While person-to-person interaction is definitely important (we are a social species, after all), I would posit that we should not place the conceptual value of that thing on so high a pedestal as to ignore the real drawbacks that prejudice and interpersonal quibbles can bring to such techniques.

[@sirsmartypants7086]

So 2 things.. My son's school uses crash course, I've looked at some of the videos and they are awesome, so well done and thank you. Also text books in college are ridiculous expensive and alot of times you cant sell the book back because of a new edition, which only a word or two is changed or picture. At the community college I went too alot of the teachers let you use old editions for that reason.

[@levugainer584]

The new premier thing is just wacky lemme tell ya.

[@salemkitty99]

I'm in algebra 2 right now and it stinks. We don't have a textbook or anything but I wish that it was written down (or if I had written instructions somewhere.) I have auditory processing issues and it's really hard for me to understand what my teacher is saying a lot of the time. She gets mad at me for not understanding but she won't listen to me trying to explain :(

[@vlogbrothers]

You don't have any kind of written resources to use while learning? That DOES stink. I'm not proposing we eliminate reading from learning, just to be clear. It's super important for most of us to have access to written resources when learning about math (or about other things). -John

[@salemkitty99]

vlogbrothers i agree! i think that written resources are important, though i dont really like how most textbooks go about it! even if i do have written help, it has to be clear and step by step. the only written info we have in our class is on worksheets or while shes explaining (the problem is obvious there.) i am high key geeking out over here because ive never gotten a reply on a vb video before though AAA

[@mijaxyl]

That really sucks. If she uses slides maybe you can ask for those?

[@aleks-33]

I was able to rent all my books from the Toronto Public Library and stood my ground when teachers tried to tell me I needed "the latest version" and it always worked out fine and I graduated with a 3.9 GPA.

[@FieryAshes]

John, I really loved this video for a few reasons. As an adult that struggles with topics I never could get from the books alone and did not have direct help from a teacher for, including geometry as well... I don't know why it is, but it has always been a point of embarrassment on my part. I started to understand the maths I never got when my significant other sat down to answer all the questions I had that Khan Academy wasn't making click in my head however incredibly amazing of a tool it is. Online learning materials have helped me a lot, they have helped friends, and my kids. They have also been very useful tools for other parents I know who want to be able to help their kids in subjects that they never really learned with is a thing I have been trying to help people do in spare time for a while. I think everyone deserves an education. I think everyone deserves to learn. Free comprehensive educational materials being available in an incredibly important thing to me and is something I am really passionate about. Something that I have tried to work towards. I am trying to assemble a comprehensive list of resources for different topics, rate them on how interactive they are, whether or not kids are also going to be engaged too, etc.... any additions to this list, even for me to just check out myself to find information on, would be fabulous. I spent almost as much on textbooks alone as I did on my textbooks, even knowing where at the time you could get them on sale, because of a mixture of them always using the newest editions of books and also extra books that were mandatory for classes. Thousands and thousands of dollars on textbooks each year, which I had to take additional loans out to pay for them. I think that it is horrible and highway robbery, but my job didn't pay me enough to have a place to live and afford college supplies. However, that was the case for everyone else that I know/knew. It was just the way college was for everyone and IS for most people I know in college presently. But the textbook industry is absolutely absurd and I appreciate all lights that get pointed in that which we don't talk about enough. Thank you, thank you, thank you for this video.

[@QueenFondue]

Sounds like it's SHAPING up to be a different future for textbooks.

[@FordRasmussen]

New textbooks=KZbin videos. But we still need to learn literacy.

[@oddlyme9659]

What's that and does it pay real good? ;)

[@Anamolouslou]

John... I'm here to tell you that I found the little book recommendation note you left inside a copy of John Green's - Looking for Alaska, which I fished out of the "Free Books" bin in front of Illiad bookstore in North Hollywood. I discovered it tonight after opening the book in a near- empty Starbucks (the last part of this sentence useless info LOL). Anyway, your note made me smile because it felt like the Universe reminding me that in an ever-increasing chaotic world that leaves many feeling disconnected that there are kind souls who hold space for people... Namaste

[@SuperSerum114]

So happy you mentioned 3Blue1Brown! I nearly failed Inro Linear Algebra in my first year of uni 5 years ago. I'm now taking a much more rigorous linear algebra course as an after-degree student and 3Blue1Brown has helped me so much along the way! Him and perhaps not having the study habits of a freshman ;)

[@jadagrisson3549]

I really don't understand this new KZbin feature.

[@NerdOutWithMe]

Nobody does. Not even the people suing it.

[@crawfordbrown75]

THE WOMBLIES WON A GAME!!!!!

[@vlogbrothers]

Now if we can just win 9 of our last 14 matches, we'll have the greatest escape in League One history.... -John

[@crawfordbrown75]

@@vlogbrothers Too right, here's for hoping.

[@chronicallymeee]

I go to university in Ireland, and we don't have any textbooks in my course, articles relevant to the course are placed in an online folder for us to access. We also have access to JSTOR and the library website has digitized versions of most articles and books we'd need (which is so helpful as someone with reading difficulties since the digital ones are far more likely to be readable with a screen reader.)

[@metadolle8925]

Thank you for this video. I'm fortunate enough to be in a position to be able to buy physical textbooks, but still: I was *thrilled* when I realized the cost of my books for this quarter averaged to only about $100/book, even though they were all new (the "used" ones were less than $10 cheaper than the "new" ones). I know a lot of people have just stopped buying textbooks altogether to save money, even if the reading is required and there's no other way to access it. More frustrating to me, though, is having to pay $120 to access the online homework assignments that make up a decent portion of your overall grade, because if you don't do that, *you will not pass.* It's a very unjust system. I have so much respect for the students who continue to do academically well even when they're working multiple jobs and/or caring for dependents. If you're one of them, keep going! The good news is that, at least at my uni, a lot of professors either make course readers (averaging around $30) or post all of their materials online. It does require access to the internet (and to a printer, if you're like me and unable to absorb info unless you highlight/annotate), but students have access to the library computers (and printers, though printing is also very expensive). There's also a good system of buying textbooks from past students for half the price, sharing the cost of textbooks if you share a class, or just letting friends borrow your resources when you don't need them anymore. It's really hard to look at the receipt after buying all the "required" course materials, but it's so heartwarming to see students work to make sure that the next student doesn't get ripped off.

[@basithph8958]

Brotherhood 2.0 return?

[@vlogbrothers]

I had so much time in 2007! I had no children, no crash course, no art assignment, no Anthropocene Reviewed, etc etc. I think Dear Hank and John is as close as we'll get to returning to Brotherhood 2.0. :) -John

[@basithph8958]

vlogbrothers can’t wait! Thank you for replying sir! I am a huge fan of you and Hank May God bless you and your family

[@elli6220]

Honestly, I just pirate textbooks. Sorry, but $200/book is crazy.

[@Adventurous-Emma]

I love how excited you look in the thumb nail that's how I feel

[@rhiannoncoupe5944]

I agree, I like to use a mixture of educational KZbin videos, textbooks (especially practice questions in them) and revision/extra classes lead by teachers to study. I think using a variety of media helps me to learn most effectively

[@robobrain10000]

wtf are tessellations?

[@Luke-lw9dg]

robobrain10000 Repeating geometric patterns; look them up they’re pretty cool looking

[@vlogbrothers]

Take this mathigon course; it is honestly so fun! mathigon.org/course/polygons-and-polyhedra/polygons -John

[@aashi8316]

Shapes that can be fitted together to create a never ending repeating pattern. For example an arrowhead or a square, though generally they are more interesting.

[@JochemKuijpers]

@@aashi8316 oh, now the insult 'you're a square' makes sense..

[@aashi8316]

@@JochemKuijpers 😂

[@willbowden6897]

Are textbooks obsolete? Short answer: yes. Long answer: yeeees and they are just a way to steal from students. Thanks John for Crash Course which is a great alternative to textbooks

[@vlogbrothers]

Thanks for watching Crash Course. I don't think on its own Crash Course (or any video series) can replace textbooks, but I do think there are plenty of free edu resources out there to replace most textbooks--or at least most undergrad and high school textbooks. That said, the working of cobbling it all together IS real work, which is one of the reasons why no major free competitor to Pearson has emerged thus far. Also, it's very hard to build a business model in which everything is free. It's not impossible, but it's hard. -John

[@willbowden6897]

@@vlogbrothers John, thank you so much for your reply, I've been a fan of you and your brother for a while, so it means a lot. Sorry that I was a little ambiguous in my comment before, I didn't mean to say Crash Course entirely replaces textbooks. I found it as a fun way to learn about things in a semi-formal setting and I could really tell how much research went into it. I actually watch some of the history videos from time to time, even though I am a Senior Computer Science major in college. I am actually interning at a company later this year that works in online educational resources, so I definitely agree that it is a worthwhile industry, it's just difficult to both monetize it while also making it affordable/free. The textbook monopoly has actually led to a lot of piracy of textbooks at Universities, which is further evidence that the current model is struggling to keep up with advancements in technology, particularly on the web. Something will have to change eventually because the current system isn't sustainable.

[@jeremyolson6419]

Hey John, Thanks for the video, I learned some new things. But... I was surprised to note that you did not mention your link to crash course. This obviously does not negate anything you said in the video (don`t worry I did a bit of lateral reading :P), but it does represent a very strong bias against textbooks that went entirely undisclosed.

[@Bellafroebel]

Went and read the Gates letter because of this vid, I loved it and it was so interesting! The sexist data was especially interesting to me as the perception of data is that its unbiased but as Melinda says, it’s the questions we ask which reflect society’s values. Awesome stuff

[@elonmush4793]

please don't do this premier streaming stuff... just regular uploads. please, it feels very clickbaity

[@toobusytocreateaname]

Anonymous +

[@owbu]

+ I'm old. Kids these days like the wrong kind of uploads :(

[@juliasutter6996]

I like being able to chat with people before the video airs

[@sameknit]

@@owbu I'm older than John and I don't see the problem.

[@leonietrzeba6778]

I don't see the problem???

[@EmmaMaze]

I am a college student currently and am studying Strategic Communication. One of my professors was preparing for a new class for this semester and she asked my opinion on a textbook for a social media class. Our division was forced to create the class because of the high demand of employers, but everything that she found that was in print was so out of date (we are talking Instagram wasn't even mentioned in a book about social media) that it was going to be impossible to teach from it without using additional resources. A lot of my professors have started using blog posts and academic journals to teach instead of textbooks because generally, they are more up to date, but they also don't cost anything. My mom also teaches at a private Christian school that does not have an abundance of funds so can't afford to change textbooks out as often as they would like to. In order to keep up with common core, they had to take the first-grade textbooks and give them to kindergarten and the second-grade textbooks were given to first grade. This created a problem not only for the teachers but for the students. I had also found it interesting how much companies like Pearson control the education realm. My mom went to renew a portion of her teaching license through and uncovered a ton of shady stuff that they do to stay in power. I would rather buy a textbook from a professor any day than use another Pearson product.

[@notlikewater]

I taught fifth grade math through my Americorps program last year, and it baffled me not just how much teaching math had changed since I was in school, but how hard it is to teach math when so many students have already internalized a fear or distaste for math (at age 10!), in addition to any other struggles we had in our classroom. It reminded me how lucky I am that I never found math difficult because I had good teachers and self-discipline to persevere through hard problems, and resources to get me through when I needed help. (Until Calculus. If you find Calculus easy, I admire you endlessly.) That is not the case often enough. But also, I never enjoyed math in secondary school because I found the way math was taught boring. When I took a Stats class in college, I realized that there are ways to teach math that are engaging, challenging, but still help you with the basics. Math is so important, and having so many people (children and adults alike) afraid of the subject is a disservice to us all.

[@jessicablauwkamp472]

John, at 2:11 you discuss the disparity between how teachers teach and how students learn best. Check out Project Based Learning! It's a relatively newer teaching style, but the way that I see my students engage with real world issues and come out with real world skills (anything from collaboration to welding) is amazing! It's all about giving students voice and choice in their project work and therefore their education! I LOVE teaching PBL!