Are There Any Extrabiblical Accounts of Jesus? | The Atheist Experience: Throwback

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[@dogwalker666]

We have Roman shopping lists, recipe books, diaries etc. and yet not one person mentioned jesus running around performing magic.

[@ronthered138]

The Romans were a superstitious lot, and the sight of the dead rising from their graves and walking through Jerusalem after Christ supposedly died would have freaked. them. out. Every Roman in Judea would have caught the first donkey or trireme out of town and soon after that the Romans would have been building a wall around Judea to keep the ghouls in. AND they would have written about it. No way that evacuating an entire province because of the Walking Dead would not have made the history books!

[@Beacon80]

The Egyptians were similarly quiet about all the plagues. 🤔

[@JoeByeDumb-vg6jr]

Magic? Oh you mean like atheist humanist Rachel Levine switching brains of little boys and little girls

[@tonyclements1147]

Funny how no one wrote about zombies in Jerusalem other than “Mark”.

[@tonyclements1147]

@@JoeByeDumb-vg6jr 8 alts now Joey?

[@davidbelway6076]

FAITH IS THE ART OF LYING TO YOURSELF. CRITICAL THINKING IS THE ART OF QUESTIONING YOURSELF.

[@tryme3969]

So what then is faithful?

[@claudiaarjangi4914]

Faithful to God, is being "loyal" to your trust of "God", DESPITE ALL of the opposing evidence. Normal "in every other respect" colloquial "faithful" , means loyal to that thing you trust, cos you have corroborating evidence for that trust. 😁🌏☮️

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic4]

​@@tryme3969self delusion

[@lh1673]

Wow nice statement! And FAITH is to push aside it or don’t think about it and question it, even if it doesn’t make sense😅why did I ever pushed aside Revelation’s book😂

[@tryme3969]

@claudiaarjangi4914 Opposing evidence? See how dishonest you're being? You and your kind are always asking for evidence. Now, you're claiming there is opposing evidence against the existence of God. What is it?

[@r.i.p.volodya]

The bible was edited and assembled BY the religious FOR the religious; it is NOT an impartial or neutral source.

[@herbieshine1312]

Trying to explain this to the believers is almost impossible. They just deny it.

[@paulrichards6894]

in 2014 a staggering 84% of the worlds population believed in a god

[@paddymeboy]

If the fact that all Jesus' followers were willing to die to spread his message is not enough evidence for you that he existed, you are not fit to set yourselves up as the arbiters of rationality.

[@herbieshine1312]

@@paddymeboy 🤣🤣🤣

[@r.i.p.volodya]

"Fact"?! - "the FACT that all Jesus' followers were willing to die"?! - It's not certain that Jesus HIMSELF existed, never mind his so-called "followers"! You know what, Hermione and Ron were willing to die for Harry - perhaps you should worship HIM! FOOL! You think that coz it's written in a book that it ACTUALLY HAPPENED?! GROW UP!

[@ApatheticFish3667]

Notice how the same people who call the hosts dumb are the same people who won't call into the show and prove it.

[@ALTDOK667]

How did you notice this? Did they call you? Just curious, not trying to be a smart-aleck.

[@joshsheridan9511]

​@@ALTDOK667the threads are often full of commenters calling the hosts dumb or fools Not one of them has the guts to call the show.

[@tonyclements1147]

@@ALTDOK667 If you spend any time in the threads, you’ll soon see several trolls being talked about and those are the ones that aren’t calling, but they claim to be “expert theologians” and “experts in Christianity” or they’re fixated on John 3 16.

[@ALTDOK667]

@@joshsheridan9511... ah, I see

[@davidbelway6076]

Name calling is the last resort of someone that has run out of intellectual ammunition.

[@robertjenkins2578]

We also don’t have any originals is the gospels. Nope. Nobody thought to save them. Not even one copy. Zilch!

[@johnshumate8112]

“Not even one copy” you’re either joking or you don’t understand what an original is.

[@tonyclements1147]

The original manuscripts of the New Testament books are not known to have survived. The autographs are believed to have been lost or destroyed a long time ago. What survives are copies of the original. The Oldest complete copy of the Old Testament Hebrew Bible is called the Codex Sassoon, and was compiled sometime in the 1000s-1100s CE. It has changed hands among various collectors through the centuries, has disappeared, reappeared, and was recently purchased by the business ambassador Alfred H Moses for $38 million dollars, which he then gifted to the ANU Museum of the Jewish People in Tel Aviv. Any ‘originals’ of either the OT or NT are fragments at best. The earliest surviving portion of the Old Testament was actually found in a piece of jewelry. The Hinnom Scrolls are two tiny silver scrolls that were hidden within an amulet. They were discovered near Jerusalem in 1979, and date from about 600 BC, placing them at around the time of Biblical figures King Josiah and the prophet Jeremiah. These extremely fragile passages of Hebrew text contain a blessing from Numbers 6:24-26. There are several fragments of the New Testament which date to the second century. P90 is a fragment of John 18 and 19. P104, is a portion of Matthew 21, and P98 is a fragment of Revelation 1. Each of these survived in the dry climate of Egypt. The most famous fragment may date from slightly earlier than the above, and is from John 18. This fragment is known as P52, and is the earliest known mention of Jesus Christ. At least that’s what I’ve read as of 2023.

[@robertjenkins2578]

@@johnshumate8112 Earliest NT fragment is from the 2nd century, Rylands papyrus P52. It’s a postage stamp fragment from the gospel of John. Eight words, I believe. Nothing from the first century at all.

[@johnshumate8112]

@@robertjenkins2578 I’m not disagreeing with the fact that we have no originals of the gospels. You said, “not even a copy”. When a statement is written down for the first time, it is an original. Every time someone copies that statement on a new document, it is called a copy. A “copy of an original” is just a copy.

[@robertjenkins2578]

@@johnshumate8112 Aha. I get it. I should not have used the word “copy.” We have not one original. The performance of copying was widespread. I do that myself sometimes. I try to be accurate, but I usually fail to produce a faithful copy. Even expert copyists of the middle ages had trouble getting true copies. And often the copies were “corrected” or “improved” because the copied versions they were copying from had “obvious” mistakes. Sadly, there are no known extant originals available so we don’t really know whether the “gospel truths” are the true gospel.

[@tonyclements1147]

“Are there any..?” No.

[@petebetz5358]

There were all kinds of religious groups writing all kinds of religious crap during those days. And they were in groups. The group that believed that Jesus stuff made it. The others did not...

[@paulrichards6894]

christianity if not adopted by the Romans would probably have died out

[@Svnipni]

Why have I never noticed Jeff's AWESOME TSHIRT!?

[@dogwalker666]

I noticed it straight away, it's "Shiny".

[@chrisworthman3191]

There are no contemporary mentions of Jesus biblical or otherwise.

[@paulrichards6894]

i dont get the certainty of people like bart erhman.....whether he existed or not the evidence is still poor

[@chrisworthman3191]

@@paulrichards6894 Poor is an understatement. By their standards everyone someone wrote about was a real person.

[@paulrichards6894]

i firmly believe he never existed

[@sirbarryvee-eight6485]

Jesus was, by all accounts in the Bible, a fairly divisive figure and was persecuted by the government at the time, ridiculed by non-believers etc. Yet outside of the Bible, there are no historical accounts of his life. We don't have anything to confirm the accounts of his life. And that is before we even get to the supernatural claims which are fanciful to say the least. Still, we have gospels from people who didn't know him, they were written decades after Jesus supposedly lived. I don't doubt that there was a person who was the launching point for the myth, possibly someone who was a bit of a firebrand who challenged the religious status-quo. I think the story got out of control and somehow we ended up with the gospels (which are contradictory). In any event, even if Jesus lived, he was not divine.

[@paulrichards6894]

@@sirbarryvee-eight6485 christianity was probably invented by people who wanted to be religious but didn't care much for the harshness of judaism

[@arizonastrummer]

yeah the Bible was supposedly written from multiple sources but a political dynasty oversaw the compiling and editing of those sources at the Council of Nicea. That there was power and wealth to be derived from consolidating the fables into a single book calls into question the final output. Motivation was huge to mislead. Also, the Romans at the time of Jesus, were meticulous record keepers and historians have unearthed huge amounts of text written at that time and there is no mention of anybody resembling Jesus, his supposed talents and powers, his trial and crucifixion, etc. in any official Roman record. In my opinion he was merely a compilation of previous Pagan mythology.

[@rickparker4047]

The Temple curtain torn in half, an earthquake AND dead prophets walking out of their tombs wouldn't be talked about?

[@Gwaithmir]

“In the entire first Christian century Jesus is not mentioned by a single Greek or Roman historian, religion scholar, politician, philosopher or poet. His name never occurs in a single inscription, and it is never found in a single piece of private correspondence.” (Dr. Bart Ehrman) Historians and writers contemporary to Jesus: Philo of Alexandria c.20 BCE-c.50 CE Florius Lucius 5 BCE-55 CE Geminus 10 BCE-50 CE Phaedrus 15 BCE-50 CE Titus Livius 59 BCE-17 CE Marcus Velleius Paterculus 19 BCE-31 CE Pomponius Mela 15 BCE-45 CE Valerius Maximus 10BCE-57 CE Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4-65 CE Hero of Alexandria 10-70 CE Appolonius of Tyana 15-106 CE Gaius Musonius Rufus 20-101 CE Pliny the Elder 23-79 CE Silius Italicus 28-101 CE Marcus Fabius Quintilianus 35-100 CE Martial 38-102 CE

[@Paolo8772]

Where else has even a Christian fundummie ever mentioned any of these names? All they usually ever give atheists are straw manning their beliefs, level Tu Quoque fallacies and threats of hell. You’d think us evidence loving atheists would have been confronted with this list by at least one person before. If what you’re saying is true: those Christian Fundies would sure save themselves a lot of time and energy, no? You’d think this is a much more convincing reason to believe in Jesus more than just stories, no? I know I would if I were Christian. Strangely: you’re the only person I’ve ever come across with such a list. Strange, no? Why is that? Are you telling me most Christians who don’t know this are convinced about Jesus for no good reason? Have they been using faith when there was never need for faith? Yet they brag about having faith; that without faith Jesus and god won’t be known to you. Strange, no?

[@tpseeker3367]

Gotta love History @@Paolo8772 Theists Despise discussing Any History or Thriving Civilizations before Jesus let alone Moses wondering around the dessert for 40 years.

[@sirbarryvee-eight6485]

I once said that there were no contemporaneous texts about Jesus and I got a response that there were countless books written about Jesus. My response - "you don't know what contemporaneous means, do you?"

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic4]

You could add "The parents of Josephus" to the list as well. They are from Jerusalem, and would have been present for the events, yet apparently they never said anything to their son, the great historian.

[@davidbelway6076]

The book doesn't prove the book. Kindergarten level logic.

[@Fufiloofa]

"I see your point (but my indoctrinaton won't let me accept it)"

[@foxfireman188-ls1kv]

There is no source for Jesus' existence that isn't dependent on the divinity of Jesus -- i.e. the only people who wrote stories that claim he existed and was divine were devout believers in his divinity; they had a very biased personal interest in their claims being true. For their claims to be true then Jesus would've had to have 1) existed, AND 2) been divine -- each claim requires the other. Since the two claims are inextricably linked, different parts of the Bible cannot be used as proof of other parts since they all rely on the same claims.

[@arizonastrummer]

The other laughable part of Christianity is that it requires the Old Testament to make any sense out of Jesus popping into existence and that book is hugely flawed, so much so that most of the Jewish people don't take it literally.

[@waffles2waffles]

I always laugh audibly when someone champions WLC as a serious person.

[@user-jj4dz6tr1t]

The Atheist Experience: We are born, struggle on this Earth, then die! What an experience!

[@23rdjune]

Does Jeff broadcast on atheist issues anywhere now?

[@dieseljester3466]

The great zombie apocalypse of AD 33 garnered absolutely zero attention from all of the Roman Historians at the time. 😆🤣😂

[@aarrgghh]

good point. marvel comics is an amalgamation of information. it's not like it's one single datapoint ...

[@blackwolfe638]

Super pointless caller.

[@Disturbed0neGaming]

Craig is only a legend in his own mind. He has one argument, the Kalam and it was debunked decades ago, it doesn't lead you to his god and it isn't the reason he believes in his god. So if the only argument he uses isn't what convinced him, why does he think it would convince anyone else?!?

[@leoaguinaldo65]

Even if Jesus existed, he sure is useless.

[@vertigo4236]

Jesus: "love your neighbour as yourself" That one guy: "how? What kind of love are we talking about? And what if I have deep issues with self-love? How far should I go, with my love? There are so many questions!" Jesus: **crickets**

[@slik00silk84]

Yah, that's the trouble with dead people . . . although morticians make a livin' off them

[@chrishorsfield6268]

Yep. The literal son of a literal god that literally made the universe is walking around and performing literal magic and nobody anywhere took the slightest note of it.

[@smochygrice465]

Does jesus Christ have any siblings? Single child syndrome is real 😮 And a good Tuesday Morning 🌞 AXP, Fans and Theists ❤❤❤ Peace Love Empathy From Australia 💪🤠👍

[@slik00silk84]

Is bastard child syndrome real? Mary is said to have been the daughter of the priest, Joachim. Joseph is said to have been an elderly widower, a tekton (laborer) of not much account. Now the question you need to ask yourself is: why is a prime young maiden of high social standing betrothed to an old geezer of much lower social standing? I draw your attention to MARK 6.03......."Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him." Now if you have noticed in your bible, it was the norm to refer to men as: "the son of so and so". To do as these people did, indicates that his hometown neighbors knew, or at least believed, that he was not the son of Joseph. It seems likely to me that young Mary was found to have "a bun in the oven" and for some reason, the father was not available for marriage, a not desirable situation. Obviously, none of the young men of the village are going to marry her, and without a husband she is open to being stoned to death as per Mosaic Law. But there is old Joseph who is open to the prospect of getting a fresh young wife, albeit a little used......a prospect he could never otherwise expected to have. A prime young maiden wedding a poor old widower is not something that would have been forgotten. Some claim that the divine birth story came from Mary. Maybe so, maybe so. You know something.........sometimes people tell a lie for so long, they come to believe it themselves.

[@tekbarrier]

The gospel of Matthew said that when Jesus was crucified, the curtain in the Jewish temple miraculously tore in half. That's something that absolutely would've been written down by Jewish historians and scholars at the time. And yet curiously, not a single person outside of that one gospel author mentions it. And Christians can't understand why we're skeptical of these stories. And that's not even getting into that same gospel mentioning a bunch of literal zombies wandering into Jerusalem, also mentioned by absolutely no one at the time.

[@paulrichards6894]

i think we know the magic jesus is bogus but was there a normal guy running around........i suspect he was straight up made up

[@tpseeker3367]

Well Dedi Djedi is still up for grabs on being as much of Folklore as jesus @@paulrichards6894

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic4]

There was also the eclipse component. This would have DEFINITELY been part of that story in the temple, because these were (seen as) MASSIVE "supernatural" events. The fact is that there was a total solar eclipse, but not in Jerusalem - rather, totality was about 150km North and would have been unlikely to have been noticed in Jerusalem. Further the date was not right - it was in November 0029, and lasted just under 2 minutes. It's easy to see how, given a few decades for the story to grow, it could have incorporated this _almost_ event into the narrative, especially since the authors were not locals and were not present.

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic4]

@@RAPPLQ nope. Definitely solar.

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic4]

@@RAPPLQ search for "solar eclipse 24 Nov 0029". There are maps showing the path.

[@veero25]

I wonder if there's some christian historian who reads regularly lots ancient log of events, and maybe many of them are really boring or pointless, and wonder "not one who heard about the amazing miracles by a prophet Judea? not one?"

[@ericpierce3660]

Jesus could have written his own story. Every evening as they traveled the country, the disciples would be in charge of making meals and setting up camp, while Jesus recorded a first-hand account of the events of the day. Or he could have asked the disciples to take notes every evening, dictating to scribes since they were illiterate. Or he could have hired a couple of historians to follow him everywhere. "Guys, these are going to be the most important events in the history of the world, every single human's eternal fate will rest on their comprehension of my teachings. Let's make sure we leave a clear and unambiguous record!" But no, we only have second-hand accounts written 70 years later by people who heard that someone said something that someone else said they heard that someone else spoke to an actual witnesses' second cousin twice removed.

[@giuffre714]

The Bible is a collection of books. If there were other books written about Jesus, they'd have added them to the Bible.

[@dx1450]

Which is one reason I doubt very much that Jesus ever actually existed, and I suspect the gospel stories were just totally fabricated.

[@dv8754]

Gives reasonable challenge to a poorly thought claim. Eh.... nah I do t think so. When you can't even allow yourself to take in new information, you will always stay trapped where you are. And that's what religion demands.

[@slik00silk84]

When you accept information that is crap . . . you are a gullible fool !

[@lh1673]

I rather ask, how can’t this Jesus if still alive just appear to every single one and say I am 。。。or at least use his voice and say I am 。。。Why not be the caller in these kinda programs😅

[@Spiritof_76]

Or a regular broadcast called something like "Jesus and Friends"...

[@Devious_Dave]

By not reliably recording what allegedly happened, the Christian god's infamously rotten communication skills remain, er, rotten. Consistency seems to be its only virtue.

[@philipinchina]

Is he serious?

[@eliesalaun7940]

"if Jesus was in fact the big deal he's supposed to have been at the time". That's the point guy : he wasn't. An obscur preacher in an obscur remote corner of the empire, preaching to some goat herders and fishermen village to another during, according to the gospels themselves, no even a year. I think even if he did performed miracles (which is of course ridiculous), nobody would have heard of that out of his little corner of Galile. So no, no wonder there's zero account from his lifetime, the very surprising thing would be if there were. It's even quite unlikely that he ever met anyone able to write during his lifetime Even if, I don't know how, a greek or Roman literate guy heard of him during his lifetime, I don't know what he would have say. A charismatic preacher somewhere in Galile ? And so what? So could you please stop with this ridiculous thing "Jesus never existed"?! Come on guys, there were communities of believers all around the Aegean sea, and even in Rome as soon as the 50s. So what is your theory exactly? A bunch a people around Jerusalem woke up one morning and thought "Hey! Let's invent a myth about a guy who supposedly lived just 10-15 years ago, and spread this lie all around and nobody ill be able to say "I was there and I know it never happened.". And instead of making up a glorious hero, let's make him suffer the most horrible degrading infamous death ?? Paul wrote in his letters that he went to Jerusalem and met James and Peter, just to trick the communities he was writing to? Or were those first communities all fully aware it was just a myth and they all agreed collectively to lie to the next ge,eration ? How does that work exactly??

[@willdwyer6782]

Not that it matters for historical purposes, but the Quran has more text about Jesus than the Bible does.

[@Ghalaghor_McAllistor]

Doesn't the Quran say that Jesus is just a messenger and not the son of god?

[@willdwyer6782]

@@Ghalaghor_McAllistor Muslims acknowledge the immaculate conception, although they do not acknowledge Jesus as Messiah or son of God but merely as a prophet.

[@tpseeker3367]

Muhammad was born in 570ce & disseminated the Koran in a piecemeal and gradual manner from 610ce to 632ce. Should make one wonder Why jesus isn't mentioned in the Old Testament

[@sirbarryvee-eight6485]

There are also more mentions of Mary in the Quran than the Bible. Mary gets her own book, Al Maryam. All she gets in the Bible are a few references and plays a bit part. And yes, not that it matters. Both are fiction.

[@user-vy3qh1xw2t]

Some native American tribes have said that they witnessed the risen christ

[@bubbafowpend9943]

Sources? Witnessed before or after the pilgrims arrived?

[@user-vy3qh1xw2t]

@@bubbafowpend9943 latter day saints

[@sirbarryvee-eight6485]

I saw Jesus once too. I was mountain biking up a long, steep climb on a very hot day and the climb was quite exposed with no shade. When I looked at the top of the climb I saw a bearded man in a robe. I looked again and he was gone. I call it an hallucination.

[@BlarglemanTheSkeptic4]

​@@user-vy3qh1xw2t so the clearly made up lies that became the Book of Mormon contains a story that has ZERO historic backing... Wow! Where do I sign up?

[@Spiritof_76]

Sure they did. They have also been indoctrinated by christians over the years and they use psychedelics.

[@paddymeboy]

If the fact that all Jesus' followers were willing to die to spread his message is not enough evidence for you that he existed, you are not fit to set yourselves up as the arbiters of rationality.

[@mysticjim6164]

@paddymeboy, if that's your criteria, then there really was a spaceship waiting for Heaven's Gate followers.

[@Ihsaan1c]

Back to the good old times when the atheist experience wasn’t about transgender ideology

[@SundaeExpress]

It still isn't, so you can stop whining about a tiny label at the bottom of the screen now.

[@Ihsaan1c]

@@SundaeExpress did you not watch yesterday’s episode?

[@Leith_Crowther]

Keep crying, it’s easier than trying.

[@SundaeExpress]

@@Ihsaan1c Yesterday's episode was a throwback too 🤦‍♂😂

[@quentind1924]

The good old times of 3 days ago. Yes there was two almost in a raw, but don’t worry it stays about atheism vs religion

[@tryme3969]

Does Life have eyes?

[@quecee]

Does death have a nose?

[@tryme3969]

@quecee You'll see, I hope you ain't scared.

[@amtlpaul]

​@@queceeIt smells bad

[@God_Is_An_Atheist]

@@tryme3969 That's all we ever get from people like you. "You'll see... someday... on an unknown date in the distant future...". People are saying this for 2000 years and nothing ever happened. How about you stop making subtle threats about eternal damnation and give us some evidence instead? That's how you convince people of something, by making rational arguments supported by tangible evidence. I'm glad that you like a book, but these fantasy stories aren't going to get you anywhere as long as you fail to meet your burden of proof.

[@N_IRL]

Does love have balls?

[@donepearce]

How on earth is this working? They don't know his pronouns.

[@quecee]

Did someone claim that preferred pronouns are needed for things to "work"?

[@donepearce]

@@quecee The current lot seem to be totally befuddled when somebody doesn't require them. They even have to put a special message on the screen telling us how weird the person is.

[@amtlpaul]

​@@donepearceThey do? How so?

[@SundaeExpress]

@@donepearce Who hurt you?

[@N_IRL]

​@@amtlpaulThey're talking about the "no pronouns given" thing... Yeah, they're reaaaalllllly reaching with that one...

[@michelangelope830]

I really don't want to call the program again, but I will have to call to ask why atheists refuse to ask for proof that the Quran was memorized. I don't want to bother you, I just want to have recorded for future generations your answer to my question "why atheists refuse to ask for proof that the Quran was memorized?". I need to know why atheists believed without questions asked the Quran was memorized. I need to know why they don't want proof. If atheists don't consider important if the Quran was or not memorized at least future generations would know that's the reason. Do you want to know if muslims lied to you? The world is at war and atheists refuse to ask for proof to muslims that the Quran was memorized, do you think it is normal behavior? What would be the future of atheism if atheists continue to protect religion? To not waste this loving poem I say atheism is a logical fallacy that assumes God is the religious idea of the creator of the creation to conclude wrongly no creator exists because a particular idea of God doesn’t exist. Thank you.

[@blzebub2]

The Koran is basically the Old Testament with some bells & whistles added on.

[@letgoofmyears]

Because it doesn't MATTER. My son, when he was in preschool, finished his hard work labeling squares and other shapes, so he proceeded to write down (from memory) the source code for Google's search page, along with what he called "improvements". He was three.... doesn't make him god.

[@Glasschin2.0]

The Quran being memorised isn’t proof that it’s true. Many humans remember many books word for word.

[@Joao-pl6db]

So what? Just because it was memorized doesn't make the content true.

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

Reported for Unwanted commercial content or spam.

[@2Timothy42-tl6lh]

Repent of your sins, believe in Jesus Christ for salvation and become a new person in this life. Luke 24:47 KJV And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. John 3:16 KJV For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:3 KJV Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

[@information_handle]

Cool man

[@dogwalker666]

Sin does not exist, It's just a reward scheme for your cult members, Bible quotes are meaningless gibberish, There is no evidence biblical jesus existed.

[@blzebub2]

Thor won't like this.

[@BrysonConnor-tb3wp]

Keep quoting and not answer the question

[@Joao-pl6db]

Congratulation you know how to copy+paste.