Are These Dog Breeders Making A Mistake?

Last week I published a video reacting to my own testimony in favor of bill HB 1102 that would ban the breeding of brachycephalic dog breeds. This week it's time to react to the dog breeders who are opposing this bill... and I have lots of thing to say.
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Timestamps
Intro 00:00
AKC Representative Testimony Reaction 01:13
ER Veterinarian Testimony Reaction 28:17
Outro 43:08
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#veterinarymedicine #veterinarian #dogbreeding

[@GriffinWulf]

"it occurs in nature" yeah over MILLIONS of years, you squished pug skulls in like 200

[@DVMCellini]

Ha I actually didn’t even think of that. Great point.

[@nezumired]

That's the real issue. Animals with a naturally short snout have soft tissues to match or have folds that serve a biological purpose like conserving water and heat. It's true that the skull shape isn't a direct cause of breathing problems. The problem is that the dog's upper respiratory tract doesn't fit inside its malformed skull.

[@MylingCyrus]

Put a pug in nature for 24 hours see what happena

[@StefLuvsFoo]

“We’re overly focused on breathing.” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@junipersue]

OMG she did actually say that. 🤯🤦🏼‍♀️

[@Scrabble-nh5ox]

Now im manually breathing 😂

[@jessicakoch2331]

yeah, who needs breathing…I love you hahahahahaha

[@jessicakoch2331]

dogs should learn to photosynthesize, so they don’t need to breathe…it’s really their problem…

[@alexribeiro5897]

@@Scrabble-nh5ox 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮nnn😅nnnn😅😅

[@someonerandome2000]

“It’s not a deformity. It occurs in nature,” …does…does she not know that deformities occur in nature? The main difference is if the deformity actively inhibits survival (you know, like the ability to breathe?) they don’t survive long enough to consistently reproduce! Bats are not canines! 🤦‍♀️

[@pablovirus]

They're just dumb undereducated people

[@FoxMoon89]

What's more, bats with short faces have noses with exterior features clearly distinct from even other kinds of bats. There's nothing even remotely unique in appearance between a pug's nose and any other dog breed.

[@CompanionDogProject]

This AKC woman is a good representation of the cognitive dissonance very prevalent in the dog breeding world. traditional breeding is a cult. I wish more vets would wake up to this reality. Thx for your work on this issue.

[@Pearl.Is.Autistic.SU.900]

YESS!!! 1000%!!! I was talking to my friend about this issue and compared it to Christianity which can be considered a cult, just like this!

[@Aliandrin]

But you don't need laws. Just educate people and the buyer will select a healthier animal that deviates slightly from type, and the breeder will breed for that animal.

[@durabelle]

​@@Aliandrin If only. I work with dogs, and I get so many customers who have chosen a dog or a breed without any understanding of even their basic characteristics. Border collie owners complaining that their dogs are too active, terrier owners surprised by their dogs' drive to hunt, people taking on poodle crosses even though they don't want to spend time grooming them etc. Way too many people choose a dog they find cute, or a dog their friend or family member has, or a dog their family had while they were growing up, or a dog pictured in a movie. Many don't read or study anything before getting a dog, not even about dogs as a species or what puppies need, let alone the breed characteristics beyond the one page you may get in a generic book of dog breeds.

[@Aliandrin]

@@durabelle That's the problem. They don't have the education. I'm a cat breeder and I needed one dog to habituate my cats, so they can go to homes with dogs. So I couldn't get the bloodhound I wanted since I saw Fox and the Hound as a kid, because of the potential for prey drive. I think English bulldogs are cute, but wasn't willing to deal with health issues and almost certainly necessary C-section if bred. Every person you educate will educate another, simply because of what you said: People will see the dogs that are actually had and want them. So that moderate type pug or Persian will draw people in, in the same way. (I don't breed Persians, but if I did, I would be breeding moderate type ones so they could breathe.)

[@acidrage5206]

@@Aliandrin looooooooooooooooooool. a lot words that said nothing. ok. so i do breed Frenchies and very well i might add i also never had to pay out for a C section (maybe in the future but again wouldn't bother me). i got my frenchie she's long backed.. legs longer than usual and snout is longer.. Do you even know why the C section is a process? it's due to the snout not being able to breach the wall whilst the mum takes a breath which causes puppies to suffocate. find a dog with a an over bite and a dog with an under bite breed the dogs together till you get the structure you want. you have to remember we have to stay within standards to keep it kennel club reg. the problem with frenchies are simple... every colour added in to the french bulldog brred is brought in through a 3rd party (dog) Blue frenchie are not full bulldogs... most will have staffy and other mixes in for the blue gene. Pugs are now being used for the PINK in Frenchies... huskey looks were done by breeding a female huskey and a male frenchie now people are breeding dalmatians for the spots on Frenchies. tis is a massive problem!! people are not breeding for traits and health they're breeding for colours and new colours. also only takes 5 generations on DWKC to be accepted on UKC or the AKC so that's a major issue. i DNA my dogs and i try only using males i can go back 15 or more generations i need to be able to follow a trail. merl bred with merls ain't allowed they have never been allowed due to blind and deafness lol

[@StoutheartedHounds]

The dog community really shoots itself in the foot by picking spokespeople like this. Good grief. There are so many actual good arguments to be made against bills like this, and yet those arguments are never made. Instead they bring up red herrings and non sequiturs.

[@AlienKissy]

In our office we have dayplay. Brachycephalic dogs rarely last 45minutes without needing a break. In the summer (Texas), they don't last even 30mins. They WANT to keep up but they literally cannot regulate their body temps enough and breathe correctly to safely play longer. Our clients are told this and they don't want to believe it. I get it, the dogs are great personality wise. Health wise, totally different story. It's the saddest thing to see people bringing in their dogs for overheating (and this is just one issue with these breeds) on just a basic walk. "Standard" doesn't mean "correct" or "healthy".

[@Dekubud]

As someone who is much more of a cat person than a dog person but who loves bulldogs, I feel for you. I probably would never get a bulldog for those health reasons, or if I did I would adopt so not to encourage breeding (and make sure I have a wacky stack saved up for that dog'svet bills).

[@arsenicAmygdala]

I find that vet's appeal to nature absolutely ridiculous. The thing about bats with really smashed in faces (think wrinkle faced bats and ghost-faced bats) is that they got there after millions of years of natural selection. The ghost-faced bat can live an impressive twenty years in the wild, double what a Frenchie can live. Their facial shape is actually an important part of how they're able to echolocate and serves a definite purpose. If it was as lethal as it is for dogs then these bats simply wouldn't exist. It's like saying that a munchkin cat is normal and natural because some wild animals like weasels have really short legs. There's a difference between an animal artificially selected for unhealthy traits and an animal that evolved the same traits that to fit selective pressures.

[@Mupyeong]

The difference is that a bat developed over aeons to have these features and also other accompanying features that support it. They have entirely different bone structures to begin with. And the argument here should be for natural selection. If dogs in the wild could not survive if they were born with this mutation, it is not sustainable. Imagine a BOAS wolf. He wouldn't be able to hunt and be weaker because of the respiratory issues, therefore die an excruciatingly slow death and also be avoided by females/males for these issues.

[@arsenicAmygdala]

@@MupyeongYeah, that’s what I said? Evolving a certain way to fit selective pressures is the definition of natural selection.

[@Mupyeong]

@@arsenicAmygdala In that case I probably just misunderstood! Sorry about that :)

[@FoxMoon89]

Agreed! What moron even compares a dog to a bat anatomy-wise?! They don't even have similarly-shaped bodies! One of them has *wings* and relies on echolocation for fricks sake!

[@cryptid_momochi]

I think the appeal to nature was in part because he had, in his previous video/in his 'section' (or w/e) made the argument that you wouldn't find smashed faces in nature, which in his reaction video he acknowledges wasn't a great argument with regard to dogs since you can point to just about any non-dog with that feature and say it's not a harmful feature because those animals aren't suffering. He noted that he should've said that you won't find it in the wild for dogs.

[@reganhulvey4213]

I just knew the veterinarian breeder was going to piss me off 😤🤦🏼‍♀️

[@amberbydreamsart5467]

I think what she was weasel-word saying is she only saw 10 animals /dying/ of BOAZ in her career. So I guess she sees non-fatal suffering as a nonissue. Definitely not a vet I'd want to go to.

[@erinhardick4803]

Real life observation: Many years ago when my GSD/Aussie mix was at the dog park she was getting "bullied or annoyed" by a bulldog, it did not take her long to find out that if she ran he could not keep up for long.

[@acidrage5206]

spoken like someone who doesn't know how HER dog acts.

[@erinhardick4803]

@@acidrage5206 what about that anecdotal story about how those dogs can't run far because of their breathing issues says anything about how my dog acts?

[@acidrage5206]

@@erinhardick4803 aussies jump, cuddle and run to initiate play lol. Bulldogs are all mouth nd noise when playing lots of growls. My bulldogs keep up with the staffies however I do have a smaller Freuchie that can't keep up but she short ans stocky my other ones are tall and long legged. Snouts larger too.. So when your aussie is getting annoyed was she getting annoyed or was her playfulness her aussie mix which is run, cuddle, jump

[@erinhardick4803]

@@acidrage5206 She was young at the time and was a recent rescue and was not as confident as she is now at 12. He was an unaltered male who kept attempting to mount, whether that was dominance or sexual doesn't really matter. He followed her around as she was playing or just wandering and she would just run. In the years since she has learned how to tell other dogs no and not just leave the situation.

[@hodietrold]

I’m a vet myself and the way I see it, albeit a little starkly phrased: There are two groups of people who profit from these dogs, their looks and the health problems they suffer as a consequence - vets and breeders. You could argue that vets would lose revenue if we saw less of these deformed dogs. But if that’s the case - how come we are the ones advocating for better breeding and health whilst being made out to be the money hungry grabbers whilst the breeders and clubs who would prefer to stick to the status quo are animal lovers who know what they’re talking about? It just doesn’t make sense. I am a general practitioner btw who also does emergency/on call work. You know how many of these dogs I’ve seen with problems that could have been avoided with better breeding? I don’t know, I lost count because it’s a regular fucking occurrence and I’ve only been in practice 3 years. I do not for one second buy the “I’ve never seen breed related illness in these dogs and I’ve been in emergency medicine for twenty years”. There is just no way.

[@crissummer4058]

0:01

[@Bercuda]

It is actually absolutely ridiculous that they allowed the akc woman to finish her whole speech and beliefs thats she had to say, but didnt allow you. I really think some of those higher up people making the decision (forgot what they're called) have a huge preference for brachy dogs. (and cats) absolutely ridiculous. And a other thing i thought of while watchign this video is how common bow legs are in english bulldogs for example. Theres definitely a full list of things you can say that are mainly involved in brachy dogs that can affect their health. It is absolutely horrible that there's people that support the exact way that these dogs are being bred today.

[@calliemtb]

not discussed is urethral prolapse and bleeding as a consequence of brachycephaly increasing the abdominal efforts to breathe.

[@Absitiam]

Wow that sounds…horrible. Man these poor dogs seem to die in such awful ways!

[@marthajwilcox1201]

Over the decades of taking in unwanted dogs, I began to hate dog breeders. Money and bazaar, inbread deformities created dogs that were abandoned or broke the hearts of their owners. Really despise people who make the conscience decision to produce dogs that are born to suffer and for what? Money? Attention?

[@I-hate-youtube797]

Not all dog breeders are breeding deformed animals. Many who breed working class dogs that are bred to do a job definitely don’t want them unhealthy so they are bred to be as healthy as possible. There was a study done published in the Smithsonian that actually found that purebreds live longer than mutts despite the long held belief that they’re not as healthy. It’s not purebreds and breeders that are the problem. It’s breeds like frenchies pugs and even dogs with behavior flaws like pit bulls that have breed standard problems that people are fully aware of yet don’t care and breed them anyway. Thats the problem. But nothing wrong with being an ethical breeder who breeds healthy animals. We NEED people like that actually

[@marthajwilcox1201]

@@I-hate-youtube797 there are so many abandoned dogs, pure bread or mutts, I will never be a fan of breeders. It's the money that causes the most problems. And I will add the ridiculous dog shows. Find some other way to make money

[@I-hate-youtube797]

@@marthajwilcox1201 I do honestly understand where you’re coming from. I can also empathize with you as I may not rescue stray dogs but I live in a neighborhood full of stray cats I’ve taken in, fostered, and rehomed. I do prefer people rescue over buying if they’re just getting a family pet. The problem with the adopt don’t shop mindset though is for a plethora of reasons people do need to have certain breeds over others. Especially when it comes to dogs. My grandmother is going blind and I’ve actually been looking into getting her a service dog. A dog like that needs to have a pedigree and be trained from birth for its job. A rescue just wouldn’t work in that situation. There’s also breeds that have historical significance like the Canadian Eskimo dog that is now almost extinct. It has ancestry to the original dogs hunter and gathers domesticated around 40,000 years ago. It’s an important breed and SHOULD be preserved. And there are many other breeds like that. You can’t just eliminate dog and cat breeding because a lot of people are irresponsible and don’t do it ethically. And it’s true, a lot of breeders are just in it for the money and don’t care about the dogs. But it’s a nuanced situation, and obviously not everyone is like that. Many breed the dogs because they want to create service animals that help people or help farmers, or they want to preserve a historical breed. Whatever the reason it’s not always a nefarious one. Besides that if we stopped breeding dogs and cats eventually we wouldn’t have any, I mean how do you think we find the ones in shelters? Again, it’s a nuanced situation. I think the solution is having more regulations on who can breed these animals and for what reasons. Backyard breeding should be made illegal and people should have to get a license to even be able to breed animals. There definitely needs to be a lot more regulation involved. But breeding in and of itself is not the problem

[@marthajwilcox1201]

@@I-hate-youtube797 you guys sound like good thoughtful people, yes, many people should not be breeders, there are already laws against how they opporate. But as long as people buy dogs and cats, the money will create the abuses. And the idea that the excess animals are will be well cared for and wanted is too often a fantasy.

[@SurnaturalM]

$$$

[@jodymichelle4965]

I worked at an emergency/specialty vet facility and every year like clockwork on July 4th we got brachycephalic dogs with severe heat stroke. I’ve seen frenchies that literally fall asleep standing because they are so exhausted from not being able to sleep for any reasonable length of time. I’ve seen pugs rushed to the vet barely breathing and cyanotic. These breeds have great personalities but is it really fair to them to suffer just to breathe? I think the breeders should be made to breath through a straw with a cotton ball in it. If they can suffer through one month like that while also functioning normally then they should be allowed to breed. And all the people that just see these brachycephalic dogs and want one should do some research and find out how much surgery is to address whatever can be addressed. And Merle, really? A deaf dog can lead a great life. And if merle was really such a problem you wouldn’t have people breeding Merle corgis, poms, huskies, German shepherd, etc. A dog that cannot breathe from playing 10 minutes of tug-of-war is a quality of life issue. I would also add Scottish fold cats to this list. I’ve seen some that can’t breathe through their nostrils and have horrible joints before they’re even 2 years old.

[@sango182]

I was a Jr handler at AKC shows in the early 2000s. There are judges that don't go by the standard, they select the handler. I showed a Shiba Inu and during that time the #1 Shiba Inu was not bred to the standard yet he would win all the time, why you ask? Because the guy who was showing him was well-known. So even if hypothetically the standard didn't call for such a drastic muzzle if that judge loves that look, they will let that dog win. The standard does absolutely need to change for the health of these dogs, but they also need to punish judges who don't follow the standard. As a vet tech student I can confirm our textbooks tell us how bad this condition is in dogs with that muzzle type.

[@109367]

I was also a jr handler! We bred and showed Doberman Pinschers, people like to look down on the modified breeds, which is their opinion, but truth is, imported or foreign bred dogs would come here to the states to show, unmodified (not cropped or docked) and they were beautiful dogs, their conformation was definitely better at times than the American Dobermans but the judges always overlooked these uncropped, undocked dogs.

[@FreesTylerFurYa]

Can attest that it's a common issue with dog shows that judges will choose winners based on the handler. You see the same people winning because judges pick each other. It's quite unfair.

[@kurtwagner4663]

​@@109367the thing is that cropping and docking are banned in many countries. That's probably why a lot of foreign breeders had "natural" Dobermann. In mine too and I live in the origin country of the doberman breed (Germany). Cropping and docking purely to modify an animal is outlawed since 1987 as it's considered animal abuse. Docking is allowed in medical cases like necrosis in tails or if a dog is actively used and licensed as a hunting dog.

[@mikedaub1991]

"Well breathing is very important," bahaha, I'm dead. An ER vet who has not seen more than 10 BUAS cases in 22 years of practice? She is completely full of it. Thanks for posting this!

[@Mupyeong]

I think I can safely assume that people just do not go to her because she sucks. Bird owners have their own websites for safe and trained veterinarians. If they owned a bird for more than 3-5 years and actually want to keep moving forward, they will ALL gravitate towards specialized vets. I am also aware that some breeders have selected lists of vets for their clients. If she's not on it, breeders don't believe her to be qualified. YIKES.

[@andrewnunn4825]

When the AKC rep basically said breeders know more than vets🤦‍♂️ Love the coverage and would like to see more!

[@jenniferfreese6816]

The breeders sure THINK they know more than vets 🙃🙄

[@Mupyeong]

See, I am a bird owner. I know much more about my birds medical issues and risks than *most* vets. Why? Because veterinarians that are not specialized have exactly one semester regarding avians of any kind. So after owning birds for almost a decade, I know what to look for in terms of illness. I know the symptoms of various mites, what antibiotics are high or low risk, natural remedies for inflammatory disorders, injuries and their treatments.... you name it. I had regular vets ask me what animal I had because they couldn't tell. It was a fire red canary finch. It was clearly not a wild bird from the country I live in. I agree that if you spend decades with a certain type of animal, you are bound to know some things. But you can't tell me that the dog, one of the most studied animals in vet schools, is so hard to get that only a breeder would know. Specific breeders may know their own dogs well, or be more knowledgeable about niche conditions, that is possible, but the second you ask a specialist you will always lose.

[@acidrage5206]

@@Mupyeong i've tried to explain this. vets have a knowledge on everything and specialise maybe on none due to somany different species coming in. where as some of us breeders only have 1 breed of dog for 20 years that's experience yu can't learn from a book. They also forget that we have also learnt from vet visits lol

[@semjay]

At one of the clinics I worked at, I specifically remember a Pug Breeder whose dogs needed to have the crash cart/O2 on stand by for ... ...nail trims. I wish I kidding. They would turn blue just from the stress of a nail trim. We did our best to reduce the stress from the event but it got to the point we just couldnt do it anymore :(

[@hayleyholt5551]

I have a feeling this isn't uncommon. We had a female pug that would come into the clinic every two or three weeks for a nail trim and she required at least three staff to handle. She would turn blue, so at least one person had to be able to watch her breathing/color, one had to restrain because she would get so crazy she would flail and potentially hurt herself, and the third would clip the nails.

[@semjay]

@@hayleyholt5551 yes, this is almost exactly what we did. We'd have to make sure they came in on a day where enough people were working so we could have one hold, two people trim and a vet monitoring the dogs gums and breathing.

[@leoncaw326]

Yeiks. I once saved an English bulldog from hyperthermia when he was dropped off for a neuter. He never made it to surgery. He almost died from the stress of his owner leaving despite being in an air-conditioned room...

[@acidrage5206]

@@leoncaw326 lmao that pathetic. by any chance as these dogs bought through covid?

[@acidrage5206]

@@semjay lol sounds like bad owners to me

[@jjbud3124]

My neighbor has a Frenchie. The poor dog is 8 years old, can't control her urination, sounds like a freight train breathing, and has had several episodes requiring emergency care consisting various problems. They've spent many thousands of dollars on her. I've always preferred animals that resemble their species.

[@dukebang1257]

Some of the arguments being made are so frustrating, I don't know if I'd have the patience to listen through all of that. And the whole consumer protection law statistic with the attorney general?? If you bought a dog and they developed a health issue, are you more likely to visit the attorney general's office or the *veterinarian's office* ?? Why don't you ask a vet hospital for their records on how many brachycephaly-related health issues they've seen instead.

[@tanyabrown9839]

As cute looking as I find these breeds I do believe breeding dogs which have trouble breathing is a form of animal cruelty. My sister has two of these dogs.

[@junipersue]

My SIL had 2 English Bulldogs that I hated to visit them because those poor dogs had eye infections, ear infections, never moved because they were obese and couldn’t breathe. They finally had to put them to sleep but they just recently got a Frenchie…..🤦🏼‍♀️ I just want to thank you for speaking out about this huge issue.

[@anitacecil2345]

as an ER vet, thank you for speaking out on this issue!

[@mommachupacabra]

Re: AKC: I lived with a Golden (NOT DOODLE) breeder, who told me that people sought out her puppies in large part because she REFUSED to register with the AKC. And this is not the first time I've heard this about the AKC.

[@foolishlyfoolhardy6004]

I used to work somewhere where we transported dogs that had been on long flights. We had a few that had passed away during the travel - all of them were brachicephalic. Vets were meant to okay any animal before travel - these dogs had no business being on a flight. I'm currently in vet school now, and even though reproduction and genetics are real interests of mine - it's not a field I will go into. I don't agree with the breeding dogs, cats and horses especially.

[@crissummer4058]

Totally agree.

[@hollywoodshank]

she said so much yet she said nothing substantial at all.

[@zanniesmom]

I think most breeders have a "guarantee" of a few weeks to a year for issues with their dogs. Merle color issues result in dogs that can't be sold or are returned and do financially impact the breeders. Dysplasia issues in big dogs can be diagnosed before the warranty runs out so that is another financial impact. BOAS and spinal issues don't have severe symptoms until after that. So the breeder isn't financially responsible for those dogs so they don't care.

[@icannotbeseen]

I question the ethics of a vet who breeds these dogs.

[@anitacecil2345]

I share your pain on this. Every single shift I work, we see these dogs with not only BOAS, but also IVDD, urethral prolapse, pyometra (in young patients which we don't see in other breeds), humeral condylar fractures, and more. They are bread for suffering.

[@nicole9680]

The entire argument hinges on this absolutely caustic conservative (not in the political sense, just in terms of the urge to conserve things that have been) bent that all things that have been should be maintained in perpetuity. The AKC representatives only point was "well these were established a long time ago and never change" as though that is an argument for why they shouldn't be changed now even though we literally know more than we did in the 1800's!!! It is maddening.

[@patpierce4854]

The photos showing paintings of bulldogs from England in the 1800’s versus modern ones, shows the HUGE CHANGES in the breed over time. Bulldogs had longer legs, normal chests and shoulders, and an actual snout….and they were strong, athletic dogs. One thing that changed in the two most recent Bulldog standard revisions, was preferring a broader chest and bigger head - now, the front legs are supposed to be so far spread out that you could fit the whole broader skull in between the front legs. CHANGE THE STANDARDS!!!!

[@durabelle]

This is one of my main issues too. I've heard people defend the breeding of brachycephalic dogs by saying things like "don't you realise that if we banned breeding dogs with short noses we'd lose some breeds completely?" For me that alone should tell how bad the situation is for some of these breeds, if we can't even fix it by selecting healthier individuals inside the breed because there's not enough of them left. In that case it clearly just shouldn't be conserved in the first place. Nobody's saying that we need to immediately put to sleep all the existing brachy dogs, just to stop making more of them. People can still keep their current pets, just choose a different breed next time. It's not like species going extinct, since the brachy dogs don't serve any specific purpose in the world that couldn't be replaced by another dog breed. They're not even a separate species, just another type of dog, sharing most of the same genes except for the ones they'd be better off without.

[@sethgurney401]

You could conservatively see 10 in a single Summer in Georgia. I don’t know how you can go 22 years in ER and only see 10

[@DVMCellini]

this just in - you can't

[@Mupyeong]

As I stated elsewhere, either she is lying out her butt OR people avoid her. I know that bird owners (different animal, I know) avoid certain vets and will have forums or meetings discussing where to go. There are websites detailing specialists for birds. So knowing some breed owners, some breeders also pass on lists of approved vets. Wouldn't be surprised if everyone with the tiniest bit of know how avoids her. Alternatively she lives somewhere in the boonies and mostly deals with working dogs. There, that's the three options. 1) People with BOAS dogs avoid her 2) She's lying 3) She works far away from any larger population of risk dogs.

[@StefLuvsFoo]

The fact that she only used the 4 AG complaints as case study says all we need to know about the AKC. They’ll do anything to protect the continuation of registration of any breed since that’s how they make their money. I’m sure we’ll soon see doodles and poos on their list. And why did she bring up Merles if you can send in 2 pics and they’ll register it? These ppl are so obtuse. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@carmandirda]

I work at a dog boarding and daycare facility, and just today I had to put a french bulldog in timeout, not because he was bad, but because he was wheezing from play and wouldn't stop to rest for more than a couple seconds. He wanted so badly to run and play and keep up with the other dogs, but he can't for his own safety. They're such great dogs, and I understand why people are hesitant to see them go, but it's not good for them. They can't even play how they want due to a disability forced onto them for looks alone. I hope one day it will be common knowledge what these kinds of mutations do to these animals. I doubt most bulldog owners are even aware of anywhere near the full extent of their issues.

[@Dekubud]

My girlfriend is a vet tech for around 5 years now. She adores animals and doing all the gross treatment stuff. Yet she is starting to burn out and wants to change to nursing because the amount of brachocephalic and hip dysplasia issues along with owners needlessly prolonging suffering because they can't let their pet go. Her dedication to animal wellbeing, including putting extra time and energy to help pet owners make the right decisions for their pets, is part of why I love her so much. She'd love to work with a vet like you, I have no doubts!

[@rboyd41731]

God help the person that takes their animal to that vet. She is full of crap. Shame on her because she is making a profit off the suffering of these dogs.

[@nursejoub5048]

The veterinarian breeder has a major conflict of interest. Obviously, she wants to continue to breed those dogs. A lot of money is involved

[@elainelouve]

A lot of hobby breeders - probably most - breed for fame and not money. As it isn't their job, they aren't financially dependent on breeding. Though for sure there's a high cost to buying a puppy. Anyway the breeder has spent huge amounts of money in dog shows and vet fees, etc. Just to say it isn't always about the money, though I'm not objecting what you said about conflict of interest. Fame is a huge deal, being a reputable breeder whose dogs keep winning at shows.

[@hayleyholt5551]

I think we agree that this bill is heavily flawed, and that breed bans don't do the general public or dogs any good. I think people are misconstruing your presence at this proceeding. You are there because it is a very rare platform to have to teach people about the dangers of BOAS and poor breeding. Good on you for being there and being a voice for the voiceless. I hope I am right in assuming you weren't there to primarily support this bill's passing, instead you wanted to use your position to advocate for the changing of breed standards in favor of the overall health of dogs. If I were capable, I'd do the same thing. I'm an LVT adamantly against the breed club standards which call for extreme brachycephaly. There are mild-moderate brachy breeds that, "well bred" or "poorly bred", do NOT suffer the BOAS issues that flat-faced breeds do (ie pitbull terriers, american staffies, etc). The AKC's position that muzzle length doesn't affect breathing is based on absolutely no reputable study out there. How can an organization that claims to want the best bred, healthiest, most workable dogs out there back any breed that is essentially born to struggle to breathe?

[@DVMCellini]

You have it exactly right. This issue needs to be discussed more in public forums.

[@StephanieStoudt-uv8nv]

Excellent. They should let you give a rebuttal! It’s a shame you cannot point out to them all the inaccuracies and untruths in her testimony. She testified in breeder mode, not veterinarian mode

[@rosenars6665]

“Breathing is very important” 😂😂

[@nadadealer4435]

7:50 Just because the English bull dog was ACCEPTED by the AKC in 1896 DOESNT MEAN that’s how OLD the breed is!! They’ve existed at least since the 1500s!!!

[@patpierce4854]

And we KNOW from mosaics and paintings, that Bulldogs were taller, had longer legs, normal chests, and a regular snout!!!

[@nadadealer4435]

@@patpierce4854 my argument isn’t against/in favor of the current standard of the breed. My point is that the breed has existed longer than its clubs acceptance with the AKC.

[@lmallia6719]

i am surprised at the rigidity these speakers had with regard to the breed standards.I'm a vet working in the Uk, and I would have hoped there was room to adjust breed standards to promote animal health/welfare, while preserving the good qualities of these breeds (I'm thinking of breeds like Olde English Bulldogs or Retro Pugs, where there seems to be a focus on breeding for less extreme morphology to benefit these dogs; or even the cross breeding of Dalmatians and Pointers , then breeding back the offspring to remove the gene causing elevated uric acid in Dalmatians). I wouldn't want to ban these breeds, or have overly broad legislation in this matter; but more specific legislation promoting animal health/welfare by prohibiting such extreme morphologies seems more than appropriate.

[@lmallia6719]

also with regards to what the ECC vet said abou not seeing that many BOAS emergencies; I think that on a student placement at a hospital, I saw 3-4 brachy dogs showed up in a 2-3 week period, all with heat stroke symptoms likely compounded by BOAS). Admittedly, different country, probably different breed distribution, but I'd be suprirised to have such a low volume of BOAS related emergencies over two decades in ECC

[@sarahjane9285]

There is rigidity here (UK) though, although some miniscule progress, no where near enough. I attended a seminar with a KC member on breed health, who stated that IVDD was an inherent issue and they would encourage breeders to test but only a tiny percentage did. They make the rules, bloody change them. Government are woefully inadequate as well and have the KC in their ear. So frustrating.😊

[@Zaiqukaj]

I suddenly realize even if bulldogs went to having a boxer level of snout that would be an improvement in quality of life. It’s not a full improvement but it would be cool if they moved towards being more comfortable.

[@parkerbrown-nesbit1747]

If you can find pictures of 19th Century Bulldogs, you'll find that they had much more normal muzzles.

[@Lemonade_Stand_]

There is a movement within the Boston Terrier world where breeders are trying to do exactly that. I think this movement is more popular in europe but it seems to be slowly coming over here too which i think is great. I have seen bostons that had muzzles similar to a boxer and they didnt sound like they were struggling to breathe.

[@lagunitoast]

I dont even understand in cases like these why anyone gets a say on what is bad breeding practices that harm animals other than veterinarians/scientists/behaviorists. These peoples arguments against the bill are shit because they barely know what they are talking about and it shows. The reason nothing changes is because everyone owns a dog and everyone has some sort of anecdotal evidence and bias. Anyone with a brain can see the animals are suffering for something as stupid as aesthetics.

[@thedeadgypsy]

Exactly

[@taiga738]

If the AKC believes it's important to regulate the merle pattern to prevent associated conditions, shouldn't they agree that it's important to regulate other traits that cause health conditions like brachycephaly? That just highlights how hypocritical they are. They care more about not having to admit their standards are flawed than they do about actually fixing the problem for the wellbeing of the dogs they breed. So long as the breed standards encourage unhealthy animals, breeders will be pressured to make unhealthy animals. We need breeding regulations that benefit the breeders actually trying to make healthy dogs.

[@cocogatu]

10 cases in 20 years? Ok, she's bluffing and talks in such a way. She pissed me of! What type of vet can side with such a horrible thing! I truly don't understand!

[@patpierce4854]

This lady must live someplace where dogs are always indoors in the air conditioning, or someplace where summer temps are never more than 60 degrees F. I live in Georgia, and my neighbors with Bulldogs, Boxers, and Frenchies have to walk their dogs before sunrise in the summertime, so they don’t succumb to the heat from their squished noses!

[@imle9279]

Just to add to your merle argument. If the merle gene is as dangerous as the kennel clubs make it out to be, why are there so many dog breeds who has the merle coloration in their breed standard? If it was as dangerous, no dog should have it right? this just adds to the inconsistency

[@rhiannonk]

Supply meeting demand.

[@elainelouve]

They have rules with lethal genes. You can only breed a merle with a non merle, and a hairless chinese crested with a long coated chinese crested. This is at least how I remember. The litter can have merle puppies, or hairless puppies, but it will also have the other type. Hairless gene isn't lethal in itself, but it's strongly linked to a lack of teeth gene, which is lethal. Again, that's as I remember, I never owned any of these breeds.

[@imle9279]

@@elainelouve Yeah I know, but if it was as bad as they say, they wouldn’t allow any dogs to be bred with it. Because like you said, it’s a dominant trait, so only one parent has to carry it for it to be passed down to the puppies. The coloration isn’t necessarily a problem in itself, it’s when two are crossed with each other (double merle). The lady in the video made it sound like heterozygous individuals are affected with being deaf and/or blind. Which in reality is very rare. I don’t like the obsession with merle, but she made it sound worse than it actually is. Also, double merle isn’t lethal (like how double manx cats die before birth), puppies don’t die because of being double merle, but it’s handicapping the puppies a lot. Being deaf and blind isn’t a good situation to be in, and most people wouldn’t know how to handle it. But a double merle dog wouldn’t come to the emergency vet because of being bred to have two merle genes. Unlike brachy dogs, who come into the emergency vet because of their short muzzle being linked with overheating. Yakno?

[@indesomniac]

The PR-level of word manipulation and gesturing displayed by the AKC in this is incredibly frustrating and a testament to their lack of ability to explain themselves regarding the action situation being addressed. Steering the conversation towards cancers, towards heart failure, while also conveniently not mentioning that their "parent clubs" testing doesn't include detrimental deformities to the face and lower spine, which MANY severely brachycephalic dogs end up needing surgery for. Bringing up data about who complained to the attorney general about buying a dog is insanely asinine; you are correct in that the average person would not know that's even a possibility. Her presentation is so cherry-picked and purposefully misleading. She keeps talking but she doesn't actually address the issues, just puts herself and breeders on a pedestal and plead to the court.

[@Scrabble-nh5ox]

I've always had a preference for wolf-like dogs, now I know why

[@kateb2643]

I don't trust breeders on this matter at all. Their egos and wallets benefit too much from the lives they're subjecting these poor creatures to

[@Kvet0707]

Sad to think a veterinarian didn’t diagnose BOAS cases 😢

[@captainChernihiv]

Well this is just sad. I suggest you tell every client of yours who has a dog affected by these conditions file a gov complaint.

[@Scrabble-nh5ox]

We need to make a change!

[@RhodaBlack]

As someone with asthma, thank you for supporting this bill. Sleep can be an issue, deep sleep is not easy, when my asthma is inflamed I make those 'pug' noises when laughing, or with out medicine exercise is difficult. I simply can't get my head around why people deliberately give dogs and cats breathing impairments, dogs are born to run and play. I hope it passes

[@109367]

Yeah this bill is pretty flawed, they need to just ban certain breeds, not necessarily on the grounds of having the flat face, but the flat faced breeds with a zillion other problems; hip dysplasia in over 50% of the breed population, heart murmurs in 75-100% of the population, spinal stenosis, scoliosis, chronic eye ulcers, syringomyelia, dogs that can't even breed or give birth, these should ALL be looked into, it's animal cruelty to subject a dog to a lifetime of poor health and it sucks nothing seems to be getting done about it. Even more frustrating we have people out here willfully ignoring all the science and evidence and going out and paying these immoral breeders $1000s for these sick puppies.

[@Felix_Effex]

This makes me love my big shaggy mutt even more. The dog DNA tests can help you weed out genetic issues. Bully's of anykind carry issues. All kinds of neural disease aside from BOAS.. Disgusting what is done to german shepherds back legs.. Your mutt can carry these issues.

[@Michael59279]

I love how the AKC representative spends so much time focusing on all the "good they do," which includes handing out pamphlets and hosting a website for people to join clubs on. Is this an after-school elementary program or something? I think a bunch of children could take over your job easily ma'am lol. EDIT: I absolutely hate this woman and how she trivialized the suffering of animals by trying to say that the attorney general hasn't heard any complaints about it. She is one of the people who cares more about how SHE feels about the animal than how the ANIMAL ITSELF FEELS.

[@DanTheVeterinarian]

I feel like you should have been able to have a rebuttal. Nice job, man.

[@x3nigaming418]

I just found your channel. Thanks for the coverage on this topic.

[@GilraenTook]

She's very twitchy for a public face. Also I love that she outright lied about things like the breed standards while the vet in the latter half purposely misinterpreted studies to "prove" her point. 120+ years ago the breed standard for the bulldog was set. She mentioned photos of English bulldogs from the 1800's, but a lot those dogs are completely unrecognisable as the same dogs we have today. Why are we rewarding people in the show ring for things that are so far off of what we have photographed as the breed standard she is saying they value so much? Since she used a working breed, part of that breed standard is (supposed to be) there to ensure the dog can do the job they were bred to do (even if it is thankfully illegal now for the bulldogs.) The wiki article says "bull-baiting is a blood sport involving pitting a bull against dogs with the aim of attacking and subduing the bull by biting and holding onto its nose or neck, which often resulted in the death of the bull." I'm sure we could set up a cloth dummy of some sort that would approximate a bull. So let's see if their "ideal" dogs could attack the dummy effectively. I get the feeling that none of them could manage it. Pekingese don't have health problems because they've not introduced other breeds! Soooo, why are they still registering the breeds that would be potentially introduced to bring these health problems into the breed? Also, PetMD (I know, not a peer reviewed source) says they've prone to BOAS, KCS, PRA, patellar luxation, dental disease (funny enough for the same reason BOAS exists. Their teeth haven't scaled down to be small enough so it's nearly impossible to keep them healthy.) Your purebred puppy also includes eye problems like ulcers and scratches due to them protruding, intervertebral disc disease, hip dysplasia, allergies, higher proportion of ear infections due to too much hair in the ear canals/skin infections due to wrinkles, hernias, bloat, and autoimmune hemolytic anemia. Does she only count diseases caused by pathogens (though the dental/skin/ear infections are) or cancers (which any dog can develop, but aren't a known issue according to those sites) as health problems? Good news, my litter of pekingese wasn't born with rabies, so I've cured all the health problems in the breed! Woo hoo! She also says breeders must meet certain standards. Why is it then that I can walk to a store that sells AKC registered puppies that came from puppy mills? Does this mean their ethical standards are another lie, or does it mean they're so low that they also can't be trusted to police themselves on health issues caused by the breed standards?

[@elijahewanhayward5725]

Thank you for testifying and going over the testimony of the opposing side. This was an extremely informative and validating video! I appreciate the work you're doing and I know other ethical vet med workers do as well 🖤

[@pandachance1]

Glad to see you back posting and taking on tough subjects. Thank you!

[@joshuaroeglin6882]

In both of these reaction videos that lady in the striped shirt in the back just pissed me off so much. The faces she made and they way she was on the phone most of the time were just so annoying.

[@imle9279]

to the breeders: What if we take all your breeding dogs, who I assume are health tested to the minimum, and do full health checks? Let's see how healthy these dogs you breed are.

[@defendingthestrawman7103]

9:50 Double merl dogs look "odd". Some only slightly, others very visibly. So, often these puppies are culled at birth, or dumped at shelters. You don't see them dying in the ICU, because a significant percentage of them are already dead, or won't reach you, because they are not the cute-ugly that is going to get an owner to drop 100k, even if there *was* a surgery that could magically fix them. Worrying about the introduction of merle is actually one of the very few responsible things the AKC (and similar organizations) does.

[@Birddog4843]

They don't need to be that extreme..our fixed many nostrils over the years.. Also horrible are those mini pit bulls..such short deformed legs..awful! Oh and..always have lemon juice around to clear the thick saliva from their throats .to keep them from chocking

[@ShiningSakura]

if a dog breed were to be left to their own devices into the wild and go extinct due to the inability to live on their own and the inability to breed without human intervention...... that aught to tell you it is anything but natural and honestly shouldn't exist in its current form.

[@reganhulvey4213]

Why isn’t the AKC rep even talking about brachycephalic issues. She’s just deflecting lol ugh it’s so sad

[@sango182]

Because if the bill passes it hurts their bank account. Breeders pay a fee per dog to register with AKC. I agree with Dr. Cellini that the standard needs to change and the bill to be written more specifically not so broad. it shouldn't be an outright ban it should be more specific and give them a chance to correct what they bred into the breeds. It will take a lot of time, but it can be done. Hopefully without inbreeding.

[@FernandoTorrera]

Every single one of the brachy breeds used to have short noses not flat noses. The Victorians was the beginning of the decline of many breeds. In fact they invented breeds and pedigrees because they were obsessed with eugenics. The Pekingese used to look very different. The legs were a little longer, a short round nose, and face, and long silky hair.

[@pattykake7195]

The AKC is protecting its own interests…🤫

[@hollywoodshank]

she really tried to say that they are helping dogs bc they have an online how to breed dogs guide... i dont think a breeder that is qualified to breed dogs would need that. if anything it would make a person breed dogs that has no idea what they re doing

[@ericarichardson2983]

The breathing issues aside (which we shouldn’t have to) …how is mandatory C-section for reproduction for a breed not seen as unethical and unhealthy if not animal cruelty. A surgery they have an increased risk of dying during because they are brachyocephalic!

[@patpierce4854]

OK, here’s what breeders do. They do their best to breed puppies that will match the written breed standard. The pups that match the best, win the awards Winners Dog, Winners Bitch,Best of Winners, Best of Opposite Sex , and Best of Breed. The dogs that WIN, have the characteristics a judge interprets from the breed standard, that were the most desirable. The dogs that 😊WIN, make their breeders more money. The ones that don’t win, can’t be sold for the premium bucks - and usually become “just pets,” somehow are deemed less valuable. Judges are supposed to choose the individual that best represents the breed standard. So, JUDGES need to stand up and NOT award those WD, WB, BOW, BOpS, and BOB awards to dogs that can’t move or breathe! And parent clubs need to CHANGE THEIR STANDARDS to make them less extreme. A German Shepherd Dog in 2024 is radically different from the ones I saw growing up in the 1960’s. The current ones have been bred for extremes in gait, floppy pasterns, and a back curved like a banana - plus, sadly they have nowhere near the confidence or stable temperaments the dogs had in the 1960’s. Faulty breed standards are causing lifetime suffering. Every single standard needs to be reviewed for extremes that can affect a dog’s health and longevity - and the standards CHANGED, and judges RE EDUCATED so they stop putting up the individuals with extreme characteristics.

[@Tunafish44]

Thankyou for the video. I completely agree with your stance on the issue. Holy moly it is frustrating to hear the convoluted arguments of these people.

[@MrKingkz]

Thank you for this i have been saying for years that most dog breeds should be band i have know this since i had to put my German shepherd down because he was getting more and more paralysed. After his back legs went i got him a dog wheel chair but it continued to spread up the body i know the dark truth of breeds and i think most if not all should be banned and i do not believe anyone who says they love dogs but want breeds that are disfomed keep up the good work

[@GabrielDeafBlindPupFamily]

Thank you for being their champion!

[@rca6576]

This is SO sad and the brachycephalic breeds are not the only breeds with issues that could be fixed with a change in the standard. We adore Caveliar King Charles but, I would. never have one now. The health issues with that breed are heartbreaking.

[@autumngruse2375]

Too focused on breathing??? Yea? Girl you're a vet, what do you tell people who bring in an animal that's not breathing? "You're too focused on the fact that Rover isn't breathing"

[@glenjohnson5323]

Yeah who needs to be able to breathe?

[@scattypetty]

I worked at a vet clinic for only 4 months and I've seen at least 10 French bulldogs with herniated discs and just as many getting their soft palate shortened. And I distinctly remember 2 pugs that had to be kept sedated and intubated on an especially hot summer day. 4 months and I clearly noticed how overrepresented they were. This vet is straight up lying.

[@jellybean9732]

I've had German Shepherds, Collies, shelties and Pekingese dogs over 50 years and I agree that show breeder fads have ruined many breeds. My pekes from show breeders had more breathing and back issues than the Pekes that I got from backyard breeders.All of the breeds that I have owned were ruined by show breeders.Breeding for extreme conformation is asking for problems. I also raised doll faced Persians foe many years that were much healthier than the flat faced cats you see now. If you look at old photos from the 1800s the breeds look very different from their counterparts today

[@BadNessie]

Has anyone ever asked why the rules need to stay the same? When we love our pets, ultimately it's because of their mentality. It doesn't matter at all what visual features they have while being adorable. I've been thinking about this for a while now, because of these videos. So thank you!! The only reasons I see are monetary and regarding reputation. Monetary, as pure breeds can be sold at a higher price. Regarding reputation because a breeder can get called 'the best' at something, in this case through their pet. The pattern seems the same as with moms of kids in mini model contests. Also, it's hard to admit a mistake (which you kind of do when you change the rules), and there's also a sunk cost fallacy that makes it even harder. The arguments against a change of rules are just so irrational that it drives me nuts. They're already doing so much. As if (random example) not yelling at people would mean that it's okay to punch them, because you're already not doing that other thing that's considered bad. The legs have been short for 100 years. Completely ignoring that it was a bad idea back then. It happens naturally. A dog without a muzzle and with these severely misformed jaws would not even be able to find something to eat. And of course too short (or non-existant) muzzles are not the only thing that can be harmful to pure breed dogs. Thinking of all those other things in other breeds, like blindness, kidney problems, hip dysplasia, heart problems, likeliness to get cancer, etc etc, the list is endless. The longer I think about all this, the more I think we should ultimately stop pure breeding overall. Ultimately, it's always some degree of inbreeding. Not doing this anymore at all is the very last step in line, but ultimately it would lead to healthier, happier dogs that we can love just as much.

[@freebeeaddict-pt3on]

i don't understand how people think that these dogs are not suffering and that nothing needs to change...how arrogant are we as a species???

[@user-tk1nv7po2q]

I also go to the vet with my pets, I have bunnies. It is shocking to see how many problems cat´s, dogs und bunnies have just because they are a special breed.

[@dug757]

AKC needs a breed warden like they use to qualify any dog to require to be breed like in Europe

[@jenniferfreese6816]

Sort of related but not, I’m curious what will happen to show standards with breeds like Dobermans. Vets aren’t even taught ear cropping anymore (it needs to be outlawed outright imo, as it has been in other civilized nations), and the ones who were taught are largely retirement age now.

[@Lemonade_Stand_]

Oof i hate ear cropping and tail docking. Dobermans are also prone to heart issues. I think they recommend all dobies get a echocardiagram annually after 2 yrs old.

[@hc6157]

When do we find out whether the bill is passed? The precedent here would be huge!

[@theaxe6198]

As many people have noted - this is happening with cats too. I have an apple head Balinese specifically to avoid the insane breeding of exaggerated morphology in Siamese and Balinese

[@petrairene]

What they do is not preserving breed characteristics. These breeds were perfectly functional and healthy 50 years ago, before they were bred to be excessively deformed. Then these breeds, like the pug, the bulldod breeds were ruined by excessive show breeding. Where I live there was an epidemic of pugs going on, 10 years ago you were seeing them everywhere. It seems these dogs lives by now have mostly ended, probably in most cases early and with a ton of vet bills so these people mostly didn't get another pug. So you see them much more rarely today. The experience cured most of these pug buyers.

[@BadNessie]

Not too far in yet, but maybe it helps the discussion if it gets pointed out more that the 'mal' part in the word malformation does not refer to 'ugly' vs 'cute' but 'suffering-causing, painful and in many other ways disadvantageous to the dog' vs 'healthy, pain-free etc.'

[@kirraha]

Majority of all breeda, inbreeding has been done

[@xXAshkateXx]

I dunno if you mention it bc I'm only a few minutes in, and I of course have my own bias, but I feel like these breed clubs could REALLY take a page out of the Dalmatian book. Two biggest issues in dalmatians? hyperuricosuria leading to high rates of urolithiasis and deafness. - For the hyperuricosuria: The breed club performed and authorised an outcross program to a pointer that would introduce lines that do NOT carry the faulty gene that gives them hyperuricosuria. Breeders worked together to keep the ones that inherited the 'good' gene, backcross those animals to dalmatians and essentially make identical dogs that do NOT have the issue. They also work overtime to raise awareness of the dietary impact on development of uroliths in affected animals instead of pretending it's not happening. - For the deafness: the deafness rates in dalmatians are linked to the extreme piebald gene (dal's are black\brown dogs with a white 'covering' over the top, not white dogs with added spots) and ALSO have an increased incidence in animals with blue eyes. The Australian breed club was like "Blue eyes are no longer in the standard. Immediate disqualifying fault in conformation sports". And what happened?? Now there's hardly any deaf animals. I've been involved with dalmatians (not a breeder, i just like\own them) for like a decade now and I have seen 0 bi or unilaterally deaf animals that did not have the blue eye fault. Why is it SO DAMN HARD for severely brachycephalic breeds' advocates to go "hmm, millions of our dogs have a crappy life. Let's try and actually fix it." The misplaced pride it must take to watch these animals suffer and refuse to help prevent more cases is appalling.

[@xXAshkateXx]

Also, re: "Do we really think they got it right in 1896 with the English Bulldog?" It's funny because if you actually look at photos of EBulldogs from the late 1800's THEY ACTUALLY HAD MUZZLES. It's literally just gotten vastly WORSE since then.

[@durabelle]

I think that when the breed standards were originally written people had no idea how extreme certain features could become over multiple decades or even centuries of selective breeding (and quite a lot of inbreeding thrown in too). So they had a mixed bunch of bulldogs, all of which still had enough of a nose to not cause huge issues, and probably thought it's safe to make a rule saying a shorter nose is always better. Same for longer back, shorter legs, more prominent skin folds, longer ears, smaller or bigger size of anything in general depending on the breed. Over the years the breed descriptions have stayed more or less the same, but if the original creators could see the current dogs they'd probably be much more careful and specific in their wordings. Current breeders love to think they're conserving the breeds the way they were by sticking to the same standards, not realising that the standards were based on very different animals, and that the gradual changes towards the breed ideal is actually taking the breed further and further away from what they used to be.

[@FoxMoon89]

8:50 Deafness, really? Why would *anyone* think that's worse than difficulty breathing?! I'm both unsurprised and disgusted at the implication that a disability is more concerning than something potentially fatal. The amount of ableism makes me wanna vomit.

[@defendingthestrawman7103]

8:07 The German Shepherds created *roughly* around that time sure were a whole lot healthier than they are today, with that cruel (and ugly) downward sloped back and short hind legs... Not to say that they got it right with the breed standard for the French Bulldog, but just because something is old does not make it bad. Actually the Border Collie, Australian Shepherd and other cattle dogs actually did pretty well, breeding working line dogs, before AKC and similar bodies got involved, favouring conformation over health and utility.

[@theaxe6198]

Boy do I agree with this top to bottom - and I’ve never found any of the brachy breeds attractive. Not to say I’m perfect - I had a wonderful dobie who died from the genetic heart conditions. Broke my heart too.

[@kiksyame1481]

Very interesting video! My colleague wants such breed (she likes thge flat face) and wouldn't listen to my explanation that they can't breathe and frenchies even have reproduction issues. If nothing else, this should direct everyone to the fact that the breed isn't even self-sustainable. I'll check your other videos and send her some. Cheers from Czechia :)

[@garypreston]

when it occurs in Nature the structures for breathing also would change.

[@dasshaker2372]

I've been looking for a Boston myself, but the bracycephelic issues are concerning enough that if I were to get one of those, I'd make sure it had a longer snout. Then again, I don't know enough about all this to know if that would help. The AKC and other similar orgs should change the "breed standards" to eliminate this feature.

[@livingdeadgirl8074]

If you love these kind of dogs don't you want them to be able to breathe?

[@leoncaw326]

I want to know what happened with the person who got refunded a sick cat with another sick cat. Yeash.... Also super funny to hear her go off on the merle color. They only care because it shows another breed had to cross in to add the gene. Does she consider other breeders abusive if they have standards allowing merle? I worked for 8 years as a tech for a theriogenologist. I'd like to see extreme examples of breeds that cause health issues eliminated through education, but I don't think a ban sounds constitutional. I've heard of places where elective spay/neuter was banned as animal cruelty and would not like to see slippery slope thinking become restrictive in America. That being said some help could come from the veterinary side even if breed clubs refuse to improve welfare by changing standards. I love my old boss, but he would help any dog get bred for any reason. French and English Bulldogs were over-represented, sometimes for being too deformed to breed as well as c-sections. If vets refused to help clients create litters that are likely to be unhealthy it would send a message without the messiness of getting the government involved.

[@blissfuljoy6049]

I'm curious if you have any opinions on buying from pet stores/millls, backyard breeders vs "proper" breeders in general ( not necessarily brachy breeds) I had a really hard time finding breeders that do all of the recommended testing. Most people seem like backyard breeders unless you get your dog from a pet store.

[@Lemonade_Stand_]

Proper breeders should be testing their dogs but they may not disclose it on their website, you have to ask them specifically about their health background and what tests have been done.

[@blissfuljoy6049]

@@Lemonade_Stand_ Thank you for the tip👍

[@skyeiron5872]

A responsible breeder is anyone who breeds their dogs for health and temperament first and foremost. That means DNA testing, joint testing (preference for PennHIP over OFA hip scoring system), and selecting breeding pairs with low COI and good structure (not conformation), whether they breed purebreds or not. It does not mean breeding to a standard, which is what would usually be referred to as a 'proper' breeder. I would suggest asking a breeder directly for what they test for, proof of the testing for their breeding dogs and to meet their breeding dogs in person to get a feel for their temperaments. Offspring often inherit their parents temperament, so if a breeding dog is timid or snippy, their pups are very likely to be that way as well.

[@elainelouve]

With a proper breeder you should always be able to see where the dogs live. And see at least the mother of the litter, if the puppies are still young. The puppies should be handled daily. Temperament issues can be genetic for sure, but also caused by lack of care, or the puppies not being socialized. One person can only do so much. If a breeder has a huge amount of dogs living in kennels, it's unlikely that they get the same amount of care as with someone whose dogs are their family members. Though I've also seen an older puppy bred for having success at shows, but he was really timid with humans. I don't know if it was in his genetics, but I'd bet on lack of socializing. Or it could be both. His breeder is doing a lot of intentional inbreeding (they told me this themselves). Just saying it isn't always puppy mills having these problems. Personally, if pet stores were allowed to sell puppies in my country, I wouldn't buy one. Also I'd stay away from puppy mills. Like said, it isn't always about having bad genes and disease, it's also the way dogs are kept and how puppies are handled. Lack of care can also lead to acute health issues like worms and infections, including severe disease.

[@blissfuljoy6049]

@@elainelouve Most of the people I found did keep the puppies in the house and it seemed like a good environment. It's the testing that's especially iffy. I definitely prefer seeing the mother dog. Not getting the testing done is what gets some breeders called "backyard" breeders here. Even if they know the parents are in good shape and good temperament and in a nice home. All of the Chihuahua puppies I found were a few thousand at least which seemed like a lot. We wound up going with a totally different breed from a family member. Really, I think if commercial puppy breeding is going to be allowed, there needs to be more oversight and better standards for housing.

[@WonderfulAkari]

Doodles can be annoying to groom but that is it.

[@foolishlyfoolhardy6004]

Have you met many? They're neurotic. Every single one I have met, every -oodle have anxiety issues. Many even progress to aggression. Take your blinders off.