DOCTOR MIKE THROWS HIS VET UNDER THE BUS

#drmike #doctormike
Last week @Doctor Mike posted a video detailing the unfortunate complications his lovely dog Roxy suffered following a soft tissue mass removal from her right forelimb. While Doctor Mike did provide some good information for his audience, I thought it was unfair how the vets taking care of Roxy were portrayed in this video, especially considering the size of his audience. I made this video to try and lend some perspective in the hopes of presenting a fair and balanced take on this event. Let me know what you think too. Thanks and stay well! - jim
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[@katieh837]

I’m a tech. Whenever somebody other than the owner brings a pet in for the appointment I always get the owner on the phone during the history taking and decision making because of situations like this. People are always so annoyed with me over calling them but quick to bash the vet when communication lapses.

[@wambam3]

your nice, i normally make them pay a deposit for the consult, and make sure to remind tjhem the day beforehand that they are paying for the account over the phone the next day too. Sometimes they this makes them re-consider their priorities and actually show up instead!

[@c.barrett5114]

Yeah but they were still given wrong information and the surgeon admitted part of it was a mix up on his part.

[@emilydecardenas2522]

As a small animal general practitioner who does a lot of surgery I would never tell an owner a mass removal from a limb is easy peasy, especially a sarcoma. I highly doubt the surgeon said anything like that. Removal of any mass from the limbs often presents a difficult closure especially when wide margins are required. Sarcomas are notoriously difficult to remove with their typical growth pattern of sending out projections into the surrounding tissues. I would say some of the most difficult and non-compliant clients are people who work in human medicine (doctors and nurses).

[@MSUSpartansRock]

When I worked equine emergency at a university vet hospital, human doctors were the worst. Nurses a somewhat distant second. Had a microvascular surgeon try to pick apart the way I placed a large bore(10 gauge) jugalar catheter in his warmblood that was literally trying to fall down in the stocks from severe colic. It was all done with proper technique, with sterile everything. He couldn't understand the fact that horse jugulars are much more superficial than humans and don't require a "full cut-down". Needless to say he was changing his tune when we saved his horse from intestinal torsion! It was sheer will power on the horse's part. Many feet were removed.

[@Birddog4843]

I found nurses were worse than doctors..

[@michall6376]

The owner is obviously the dad, dr. Mike probably gave up the dog to pursue his internet career and now he’s trying to go back to get likes on KZbin.

[@user-lc7rm8lu5o]

I just came across this video, but as a veterinary pathologist I see some real value in Dr Mike's video. This is a good example on how communication breakdown might happen between attending veterinarians, surgeons and pet owners. You have pointed out the main issues with this patient including the lack of direct communication with the pet owner, the lack of feedback between his dad and with the surgeon, but also perhaps not understanding the post-op care. It is evident he (Dr Mike) got involved when the situation was unfortunately irreversible, and this is a common occurrence in vet practice. An STS (regardless of grade) is a fairly common tumour which is usually surgically treatable (specially in the limbs), and is associated with generally good outcomes. You also noted his mistakes in understanding the information (staging versus grading), and this is likely because of the emotions involved in this situation, which is often why many pet owner can make rushed decisions. On a side note: his photo of cytology is actually a histology image of skin.

[@blazekarma]

I'm a doctor, and I hope this video doesn't tarnish people's view of doctor pet owners. I trust my vet and understand that they have the same difficulties as anyone in the medical profession, and that complications are just an unfortunate and frequently unpredictable part of life (and that's the risk you take when consenting for a procedure). Also if I had to get someone else to take my pet to the vet (due to work commitments), I'd be in frequent contact with said person about what's happening, even if it means a quick phone call during a break at work. I agree with others that Dr Mike's video probably comes from a place of guilt, but just know that his story isn't necessarily the norm for pet owners in non-vet medical professions.

[@DVMCellini]

That’s my hunch too

[@Lemonade_Stand_]

The dog is shared between both him and his father. I do think he should have at the very least called the vet to ask the questions himself instead of relying on his father to ask them.

[@TaraConway16]

The dog isn't his pet. If you listen, the dog belongs to his dad. The dog's bandage was put on too tight by that vet which caused horrible issues that ultimately caused her her leg. Dr. Mike explains all of this. This vet is trashing him because he is triggered by Dr. Mike saying that this one vet screwed up.

[@katvelyte]

why then is Dr. Mike making a video about someone elses dog with no firsthand knowledge of the interaction between the owner and the vet @@TaraConway16 ? Dr. Mike's video was made recklessly and with no empathy to veterinarians.

[@rebekah4761]

​@@TaraConway16 she is Dr. Mike's dog but she lives with his dad.

[@purpleamber1]

As soon as he said he wasn't there and sent his dad, regardless of being a physician, he messed up. Playing telephone never ends well. On point as usual Dr. Cellini.

[@albyvale4743]

Dr Mike: “Make sure to ask your vet these questions.” Me: Make sure you are actually present to ask these questions 🤦‍♀️

[@Finkeldinken]

YES. 🎯 And I think that if he's even a halfway decent person, most of his lashing out is actually guilt.

[@feat.shanika]

His father was present and had the list of questions from mike it's his dads dog they share no different than if a mom takes a child to the doctor dad might remain at work

[@aff77141]

Do you have any idea how busy medical professionals are 😂

[@Elspm]

I feel like he heavily threw his dad under the bus, but then didn't consult on the phone to ask these questions himself. It would have been a lot more reasonable of Dr Mike had really emphasised discussing it yourself, as the owner.

[@eaevans1169]

This times a thousand!

[@jamielaw4749]

From a non-veterinarian perspective, Dr. Mike's video does not make me distrust veterinarians anymore. Actually, it makes me more willing to take my pet to the vet. I saw it as more of a confirmation to be diligent with questions (with any medical professional, human doctors included). Not all veterinarians (or human doctors) are as great as the ones commenting now. I (and a lot of pet owners) do not alway go with recommendations from our vet, because we don't know if is essential or not, or we go with them passively out of guilt. Now I know I just need to be more persistent in asking them questions

[@DVMCellini]

Totally agree

[@DanTheVeterinarian]

Thanks for this Dr. Cellini. As a GP I do a lot of surgery, and before I do surgery on any pet there is a conversation regarding possible negative outcomes. I am just shocked he never spoke with the vet preoperatively.

[@miked.7722]

so do you tell them you might F up and cause the dog to lose her leg due to improper post- op management I doubt it. I find it amazing how you guys all circle the wagons, You were "Just Shocked" and it's the owners fault, SUUURRRE it is.

[@trala8911]

@miked.7722 someone else in the comments already pointed out how Dr Mike posted images of the dog outside in uncovered dressings which should never be allowed to get dirty/wet, and that’s the sort of postoperative care that’s not on the vet, it’s on the owner. If the owner isn’t doing things like keeping the dressings dry, the vet can’t make up for that.

[@vettech8509]

My vet’s recommendation is that any dog 7 yrs and older have a well visit every 6 mos, which I follow with THREE dogs. Yes, it’s expensive but that is the commitment I made when I brought each of them home. Having each insured and seeing board certified veterinarians when needed has been a life saver (literally)!

[@wambam3]

you're the kind of client we in the biz call "a compliant, and responsible pet owner" and you are the subject of so many pep talks that your veterinarians would be giving to junior staff that are on the brinkk of quitting or at the end of their tether. Bravo!

[@trala8911]

And Dr Mike is wealthy, having been a physician for many years and now a super-successful KZbinr. Finances shouldn’t even come in to it.

[@leahwithheld783]

SO many alarm bells went off in my head as I watched this. For full disclosure, I wasn’t there either, and am not privy to any details. I am not familiar with Dr. Mike at all, nor have I watched his video. But as a general practice vet, I have so many concerns here. 1. Bump was there for several years? Why not get it checked out when it was smaller, and first appeared? If his vet didn’t recommend it, why didn’t he pursue it? Surely, they do aspirates on the human side? 2. Sent your dad with questions? If you are going to be involved in this dog’s care, be fully involved. I have seen several people comment that often only one parent takes a child to the doctor. Well, of course. But if that doctor recommended surgery for a sarcoma, surely you both would be there for the consult? And the surgery? 3. What is Dr. Mike’s specialty? Don’t all physicians get a basic grounding in bandage and wound care in medical school. While many lay owners don’t understand the difference between a cast and a bandage, surely an MD does? When we send home a patient with a major bandage, the owners are instructed to keep it clean and dry. We even send home a heavy plastic bag to cover the bandage when the pet goes outside so he doesn’t get it wet or dirty. Yet, here is this dog sitting on the deck, OUTSIDE, with no cover for his bandage. He also doesn’t mention how often it was supposed to be changed. While a bandage might last a week, we usually change them every 3 days, just so we can see what’s going on underneath. The dog isn’t going to tell us, and it’s hard to tell if a dog is painful from the surgery, or because his foot is now too swollen for the bandage. 4. Nowhere does he mention what his discharge or home care instructions were. A physician should know better than most the risks of limb bandages, including lack of circulation from the swelling of the limb against the bandage, and the resulting tissue damage, including gangrene. 5. Wait 2 days to take him in? As Dr. Cellini mentioned, that is a dangerous choice. If your surgeon is out of town, how about your regular vet? Or a second vet? Or a veterinary ER?

[@sherrypopper9614]

What bothers me about Dr. Mike's video is the fact that none of the possible complications seem particularly vet-specific. I mean, being a retired physician, his father should already know what to ask and have easier time interpreting veterinarian's opinion. That's not to say that vets shouldn't communicate with pet owners and that owners should yank the information out of the vet, but I find it highly improbable that his father didn't know how to "yank" information out the vet if that was the situation at hand. I've personally had some encounters with both "easy peasy" and plainly bad vets (I'm not from the US, however) but my course of action is usually to stay clear of such practitioners. Dr. Mike said that the bump was present from 2017. and that it was pointed out at a regular check-up; meaning they've probably been seeing the same vet for at least ~5 years. It doesn't seem probable that they haven't picked up on the red flags in that time. It's entirely possible that they haven't been seeing the same vet, though. At any rate, I feel that the video is too emotionally charged for a video that claims to want to "Arm the owners with important questions".

[@CharisHii]

Has anyone ever noticed that physicians can actually make the worst clients? 😅

[@DVMCellini]

You have to be very thorough with them, in my experience. You also have to make sure the logic of what you're doing is sound. This applies to all patients but with physician pet owners, you have to clearly explain it. Just my opinion there.

[@comesahorseman]

@@DVMCellini y'know what? In my experience, nurses are often worse! Just saying.

[@GroovyGrov]

Yes! Nurses!

[@Woolsa]

Nurses are definitely the worst

[@lennon7185]

THIS! Genuinely they believe they have such a strange massive sense of authority.

[@catsnguitars]

I guess I’m still just flabbergasted that his dad (a physician) thought that he could wait two days after noticing something abnormal with the dogs leg. If you’re a physician, wouldn’t you be highly concerned of an abnormal sx site post-op? It sounds to me like his dad just wasn’t on the ball and was making the primary decisions with the vet. Vets don’t make all the decisions like that. They always consult the client first to make sure they are on board. So this sounds like a communication break down between Dr. Mike, his dad, and the vet. So why isn’t Dr. Mike taking any responsibility for the situation? I have to include the vet to take some of the responsibility because it was a three way conversation, but it absolutely should not be entirely on the vet. That is really upsetting that Dr. Mike tried to undermine vets in general. I think he is thinking too emotionally about the situation, which I understand. But it’s really no reason to tell 10 million people that in general you should be wary of vets. For the larger picture, that’s not helpful for the animals! :( Vets and vet techs have saved countless animals lives and improved their quality of life. I thought it was also strange that at the end he said that vets should really be thinking about the quality of life of an animal, which literally that is what vets talk about all day everyday with clients!! I know firsthand because I’ve been a CVT for more than a decade. Vets are amazing health care professionals!!

[@MSUSpartansRock]

LVT for 23 years. Spent the first 10 in clinical medicine/surgery. Now I'm in research welfare and compliance. All we do is look out for the welfare of the animals. It's heartbreaking that Dr. Mike is piling on more 'fuel to the fire' of vet med bashing that has been a large reason for the skyrocketing suicide rate amongst veterinarians. To the point of being one of the highest amongst all professions other than military.

[@TaraConway16]

Dr. Mike didn't bash veterinarians. He talked about that ONE who got the dog's leg amputated unnecessarily. He said he wary of vets if they're telling you something or doing anything that doesn't seem right, which same with physicians, lawyers, and really any type of professionals. Also a small bump that wasn't causing any irritation to the dog or any issues at all doesn't raise many flags. And Mike doesn't seem like he knew about it before his dad told him many years later.

[@yvettemills5192]

I agree with the lack of communication between Dr. Mike, his dad, the vet, and the surgeon had was a terrible mistake on the family's part. However, the vet and surgeon aren't totally blameless. First, Roxy lives with and is cared for by Dr. Mike's DAD, not him. So it was his father's responsibility to get all the information (family's error). Secondly, lack of communication does NOT explain why Roxy's leg is now amputated. Either the surgery went wrong or her leg was wrapped too tightly. That blame can only be placed on the vet. And when Dr. Mike questioned the surgeon, the doctor ADMITTED that it was "all of the above" (Her age, the surgery, the bandage, etc.). Did it make sense to operate on a 12-year-old dog with a sarcoma that wasn't affecting her quality of life? No. I think this video and comment section has vets trying to protect other vets as oppose to just being completely honest. It was a failure on BOTH sides.

[@rachaelthomas6055]

Thank you for this assessment. As a fellow veterinarian, I was concerned Dr. Mike's video might be vet bashing based on the title, so I put off watching it for a while. I understand and empathize with his frustration, but you raised the same concerns that I had watching the video, especially the difficulties in communicating and decision making through a third party. (I'm an equine vet, and there are often several levels of management/trainers/ownership to navigate communication and decision making). He raises good points about the value of asking questions, seeking second opinions if uncertain and focusing on quality of life in addition to quantity, but I do fear some viewers may take away a mistrust of veterinarians in general from his video. I think he was trying to remain respectful, and I appreciate him not naming the veterinarians involved, but I would have liked more professional courtesy from a fellow medical professional.

[@aff77141]

If you've seen any of his other videos, you'll know he doesn't have much tolerance for when medical professionals fail to do their jobs to the best of their abilities, and in my opinion rightly so. There CAN'T be tolerance for people who fail to do their job thoroughly when lives are at stake, it's not disrespect, it's just a blunt warning for people to remember that not everyone has your best interest or will think things through.

[@marginalman8044]

@@aff77141 medical professionals rarely are perfect at their jobs, especially in human medicine. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” and also, "There, but for the grace of God, go I."

[@MSUSpartansRock]

@@aff77141 True, but his video is a one sided opinion. There was all sorts of issues with the situation his dog was in and lack of direct communication with the actual owner(Dr. Mike) was a major factor.

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

@@aff77141 I unsubbed to that Dr Mike when he partied on a boat without masking with people beyond his bubble for his birthday at the height of covid when he was seeing patients & telling his audience to shelter + mask. He's fame-hungry, hypocritical, & untrustworthy, & I don't think he has a lot of self-awareness.

[@GayChristian16]

As a vet student, what you covered are all the FUNDAMENTALS of treating and care for a surgery. I don't think a surgeon would forget and minimize the situation as lackadaisically as he portrays. I think the communication broke down between dad and Dr. Mike and sadly it lead to the confusion around what this dog might be at risk for. Overall, I'm just glad the dog is healthy and recovered well to the new lifestyle.

[@elenadickey7763]

Dr. Cellini, I absolutely love this video. You point out the importance of communication and FIRST HAND communication very clear. And in a nonjudgemental way as well. I am an aspiring vet and I currently work at BluePearl in the ER department. I can't tell you how many times I have been berated, yelled at, and even sworn at because of this breakdown in communication. I just recently had an incident on the job where an owner called for an update on their pet, only to see we had put the pet down hours ago. So the lack of communication between the 2 owners put me in the terrible spot to tell this owner that their pet had passed. I still love my job and I thank you for your time and effort you put into making these videos.

[@DVMCellini]

thank you for saying that! best of luck on your journey

[@HeyJools]

I'm a statistician in training ( so not a vet or a doctor) but in my life experience, vets are way more thorough, nicer and empathetic than human doctors (probably because they like their patients).

[@LizbetPCB]

Dr. Mike should have been front and center in communicating with the vet. He’s passing the buck to his father, who also had an obligation to keep his son updated. I’m glad Roxie’s doing well, but Dr. Mike, your dog is your responsibility. She trusts you to care for all her needs.

[@feat.shanika]

It's a dog shared between him and his father not all the time do both parents take a kid to a doctor

[@labsnabys]

@@feat.shanika if one parent said to the other parent, "Make sure you ask these questions" -- I'm pretty sure the first parent would find out what the actual answers were and be involved in a decision whether to go forward with surgery.

[@Shant3ll998]

I’m sure that if Mike could have gone with his dad or instead of his dad, he would, people - especially doctors - are busy, it’s not his dog, his father owns Roxy (used to be a shared ownership but she doesn’t live with Mike anymore) and she is consider their family dog. His father is the one having primary direct communication with the vet. Mike is having communication when he is able to. I definitely thought stuff like “There should have been better communication between Mike and his dad, and then his dad and the vet”. I get the point but it’s not entirely their fault, I genuinely think the vet should have had better communication with Mikes dad. It’s literally just communication. When Mike noticed that the bandage looked weird, he should have consulted his dad, and told his dad to consult with the vet. There were mistakes on all sides and I still think he should have consulted with another vet while his editors were editing the video. Unfortunately because memory is not always reliable and none of us were there, we’re only able to judge based on what he’s saying.

[@pandachance1]

I'm disappointed in Dr. Mike. If someone came to him with this situation about a human patient, he would be making all the same points as you about communication. He is a medical professional. Maybe his emotions are clouding things, but he knows better.

[@DVMCellini]

Exactly.

[@MilanoDynamite]

@@MacchiatoSwirlGirl I use to work w/ Dr. Cellini. He is great at his job. I'm tired of ignorant people like you bad mouthing doctors. Yes there are the bad ones out there but most veterinarians work just as hard and care about their patients well being. I have been in the medical field for 10 yrs; human to vet medicine. I love them both but veterinarian is way cooler and we have a bigger challenge because our patients cannot talk to us. I currently work for a board certified surgeon in Arizona & she is damn amazing at her job. We save some many lives. Pets mean the wolrd to owners. Learn some respect. We don't amputate limbs for no reason. My dr is very detailed (she will draw out what she does in surgery to give owners visuals) in consultations and we try to give discounts to help owners out who are struggling financially. We give all the information & let them decide what's best for their pet. We never force owners to go to surgery. Have a good day.

[@MilanoDynamite]

@@MacchiatoSwirlGirl Wow, intelligent response. Good for you.

[@marginalman8044]

@@MilanoDynamite yeah Lady is a true class act lol

[@DrCellini]

Solid breakdown bro

[@DVMCellini]

thanks bro

[@vettim89]

I really feel like Dr. Mike left out some of the story. The foot did not necrose in a day. Were there any signs of a problem before his father called him? Were there any recheck appointments? Did his father communicate with the veterinarian what he was seeing? Bandages are a dangerous thing in dogs. Yes, they are often necessary but as Dr. Mike's video showed they can lead to dangerous complications. We have a full protocol for every animal that leaves our practice with a bandage in place which includes a mandatory 3 day recheck along with very specific instructions on what is and is not acceptable. I feel like Dr. Mike absolved him and his father of all responsibility while implicitly blaming the surgeon. Perhaps there was a surgical complication or misstep but as you pointed out its hard to imagine one that could cause complete loss of blood flow to the limb. Even if that were the case, as I said at the start, this is not a process that occurred without outward signs before the final bad outcome

[@dragonsheen3049]

I know this is an old comment, but I completely agree. Feels like we're missing a lot of detail here and I cannot believe for the life of me any veterinarian would discharge a bandaged dog without firmly instructing the owners to come back within 72hrs. Honestly, I was wondering why they bandaged an entire leg for a mass removal anyway. But I definitely feel like the vet is not entirely to blame here. What physician leaves a soft bandage like that for DAYS, let alone without routinely checking it? I know how annoying it can be when MD owners try to debate the DVM and feel like they know everything, but it seems just as bad to have a physician who suddenly pretends they have zero medical training or common sense.

[@unhwildfan1]

You covered the breakdown in communication between the son and father well, but there is one other area I wanted to explore. I'm a vet tech that has been working in the surgery department at an emergency and referral center for many years. Far and away one of the greatest sources of complications in veterinary medicine are complications arising from bandages and poor owner compliance in bandage care. I like you don't know the full story but I am willing to bet that the discharge instructions contained detailed directions about keeping the bandage dry, keeping the dog from chewing the bandage, exercise restrictions, and monitoring the bandage for evidence of moisture, swelling, or cold extremities. The directions also probably indicated that if any of those things were present, the owner should probably contact the vet +/- remove the bandage. How good of a job was the father doing following these directions? He already showed he was non-compliant by not following his son's directions in bringing the dog to the vet when complications were noted.

[@DVMCellini]

I edited it out for time, but left in the part where I said "you shouldn't wait 2 days" - at least I think I did? Anyways yes I agree and thought of bandage compliance as well.

[@glosteiger2517]

Retired LVT who worked in surgery for years. We sent home printed instructions and when the pet was picked up we went over them verbally with the client. They then had an opportunity to ask questions. We also encouraged them to call with any questions at any time. We tried to do follow up calls but it was difficult to find time for that. There comes a point when the client has to assume responsibility. Used to make me crazy when we had to go over things with co-owners because they failed to speak with each other prior to calling us. Still miss the job though.

[@rannors723]

I do alot of veterinary surgery and you nailed it when you talk about the communication issues. Good communication before and after surgeries is nearly as important as the surgical technique. More people will be unhappy with poor communication than with anything you actually do, in my experience.

[@jaclynclemente6346]

He thinks of himself as such an expert because he is a physician, but he doesn’t even know the difference between stage and grade! There is so much we don’t know about these medical details but like Dr Cellini said, most of the drama here comes from the communication issues… again, as physicians they should know better.

[@gracielac.p.reiser4320]

Yes, he thinks as a physician, but a 5 year survival rate is not the same in dogs!! 5 years is a huge amount if time on a pet.

[@aff77141]

You don't think he maybe just misspoke, and you're being incredibly harsh on someone who's clearly in distress just because something you care about got insulted? Nothing ignorant about that

[@marginalman8044]

@@alexalbright4352 I think it’s Dr. Mike’s cousin replying to all these comments lol

[@marvolom787]

Notice how he didn't even to look at his dog's leg when his dad asked for consultation

[@amullerdvm]

He, as a physician, as someone who has an MD, DIDN'T CHECK THIS BUMP OUT FOR YEARS. End of story there.

[@slaldbsahagamos1993]

He is a DO

[@slaldbsahagamos1993]

I think 😂

[@zaddyjacquescormery6613]

@@slaldbsahagamos1993 Today, a DO is literally the same thing as an MD. It is ignorant and disrespectful to DOs to suggest that it isn’t.

[@add-amginger5899]

Uh it was a type 1 tumor. And when mikes asked the vets what went wrong they said all of the above which means the vet did wrap it to tight the vet did take out to much tissue. Yes the TINY bump/tumor went unchecked. But you have to realize it wasn’t causing any problems. Like for example are appendix doesn’t do anything except give us a chance for appendicitis. And the only shade that dr mike threw was that the vet didn’t tell him the main risk. He wasn’t shading vets he was shading A vet.

[@chellyberry4434]

Literally red flag number one for me when he said that I was like well…

[@ComfyChaos]

Thank you for this thorough breakdown. I stopped watching Dr. Mike a couple of years ago, but I don't like how he passed the buck onto his father and the vet/vet surgeon. If he had specific questions that HE wanted to be answered, than he should have been in the consult room along with his father. At the very least, he should have perhaps gotten the vet's permission to record their conversation, either video or audio, so he wasn't risking secondhand telephone info. I really, really don't care for his lack of self-reflection, especially when it comes to a serious situation involving a family pet. As a physician, he should have known better, period.

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

Same I unsubbed to him when he was a hypocrite during the height of the pandemic, & hid/tried to lie about celebrating his birthday unmasked with people beyond his bubble, while he was (rightly) advising people to shelter whenever possible & mask. I don't take advice from people who prove themselves untrustworthy, & his "apology" showed total lack of self-awareness. A self-aware doctor is a safe doctor. I unsubbed from that untrustworthy fame-hungry ego-stroking guy right after seeing it.

[@brianscott922]

I completely agree with you “take” on this. I’m a Veterinary Dermatologist & communication is KEY! You & I both know that the Surgeon completely explained all possible outcomes & potential complications! The actual MD owner needed to be present for the pre-op consultation!

[@Finkeldinken]

Maybe Dr. Mike is honestly mostly just angry at himself and feeling really guilty for not being there for his dog. I know I would feel like shit in his place. A lot of this seems like displaced anger and dodging his own sense of personal responsibility to me. I'm really sorry his doggo went through this, and him being such a huge internet presence it's no bueno to take it to the masses like that. He knows very well from personal experience what it's like to be on the receiving end of that. End point for me: He wasn't there for his dog, and he knows it, but he can't admit that, so he's loudly pointing his finger. Sure, the vet can be a dud for sure. I've met vets like that, but tbh I think odds are that this is just an unfortunate combo of things.

[@oreotookie]

Dr. Mike dodging personal responsibility? Say it ain’t so! I lost any respect for him that I had during Covid and his terrible “apology” that he had on the SECOND channel. He’s quick to ride the praise that he can get for as long as possible, but also pass the buck when he has to take ANY responsibility.

[@svuchase24]

YES! He even said his dad didn't bring the dog in immediately when he noticed wound issues. OWNER COMPLIANCE

[@evfrieden]

He has a history of demeaning veterinarians. I unfollowed him a few years ago because of this. He was unkind when it was pointed out via twitter.

[@Lemonade_Stand_]

Technically Roxy is shared by both him and his father but since he got his own dog, a newfie, a few years ago i think Roxy is more of his father's now. Anyway i agree. When i was initially watching his video i was wondering why he didnt go with his Dad or at the very least speak to the vet over the phone to ask the questions. When my dog was diagnosed with sarcoma last year we asked the vet similar questions because he isnt a young dog. However since the vet advised that if the tumour burst it would be quite a painful demise, he recommended that we do it urgently so we did.

[@comesahorseman]

Yeah, we call these a cluster bleep! Bottom line is that the owner, not the caregiver alone, should have taken the patient in for consultation. That was a mistake.

[@robinvee5436]

"It's frustrating bc it feels like you didn't get all the information" ...........maybe bc....you weren't there? And the person you sent didn't even talk to you/confirm before sending her in for surgery? I haven't seen his full vid, but it doesn't seem like he makes any effort to understand the vets' perspectives. He clearly doesn't fully respect them as Drs if he thinks they'd flat out ignore surgery risks and quality of life concerns just to make a dog live longer 🙄 I'm not surprised, but it's disappointing

[@michelleborchardt199]

I think Dr. Mike may not be thrilled with the vet, but is also saying “ask questions” since HE didn’t do that on his own. Sarcoma, especially if it spreads to the bone is not pretty. His dog has recovered, appears to be doing well, so the chances that arthritis will deplete the dog’s quality of life before cancer or old age kick in is negligible. If he was concerned, he could have also consulted an oncologist to determine if surgery was the ideal choice. Lastly, I agree, the culprit was probably the bandage. Bandage care isn’t always about the veterinary team. If the dog is moving around too much, the bandage can slip, causing constriction and potential necrosis.

[@rahmaz.9267]

I unsubscribed from Dr. Mike channel a few years ago after he made an half baked apology video on his second channel ( which had significant less followers than his first). During the pandemic, he highly encouraged and promoted mask wearing and called anyone who didn't follow CDC mandate being selfish and a risk to society. Funny enough, he was caught in Miami on a yacht partying without a mask. He gave a weak apology, didn't have any accountability, and was more upset about the fact he was caught then what he did. So this video of him throwing his dad and the vets under the bus doesn't surprise me. If anything it reaffirms I made the right choice. Unfortunately I think the damage on the veterinary community will be quite impact full as he does have a large following.

[@Pathologymadesimple]

I too unsubscribed his channel. It is mostly roasts, reacts and basic medical info

[@ComfyChaos]

That’s when I unsubscribed from him as well. His selfish actions coupled with a non-apology on his little known second channel just left a really bad taste in my mouth. I honestly got the same vibe from him in both that “apology” video and this one: that he sees himself as incapable of doing anything wrong and it’s always the fault of someone/something else when stuff doesn’t go his way.

[@mylizzylove1]

I also unsubscribed when this happened. I lost all respect for him as a doctor and as an influencer.

[@worrell3831]

Sounds about right. A lot of the social media medical folks care more about their brand online than anything else. I went to school with a few and they are bubbly and positive on Instagram, but in real life some of the worst people I had the displeasure of knowing.

[@chantalgingras8188]

That's when I unsubscribed too.

[@rutha8562]

I'm a vet student. And just this week my professor was telling us that the worst owners are human doctors.

[@DVMCellini]

I don’t know if that’s true, I just think they envision vet med happening just like they practice sometimes and it’s just not that way.

[@TheMattBaker]

@@DVMCellini honestly i have heard similar, and at least here in Denmark Human docs tend to (sometimes) to administrer Human medicine (especially fusidic acid eyedrops) if they think its conjunctivitis. Good communication is always warranted, But maybe even more with medical personal (also vet staff) since you might skip details due to their “similar knowlegde and practice”

[@kelseysparrow]

I love most of my MD owners. They often will say that vet med isn't their area of expertise and ask good questions and are generally very respectful. I find nurse owners to be the worst - they know enough to be dangerous and often think they know way more/better.

[@kbrennan3836]

I'm a vet and this is false. Human doctors have nothing on human *nurses.* The client who wanted her two-year-old dog to "pass naturally" from a bowel obstruction? That was a nurse. The one who gave her cat a Fleet enema and almost killed her? Nurse. The one whose dog needed to be seized by animal control after she "treated" his broken leg for months until the cast sores went down to the bone? Yep, a nurse.

[@reginalutz3680]

Most human doctors I've encountered as clients have been lovely, it's the human nurses I've had the most issues with. Human ER nurses are usually awesome, though. (I work veterinary ER and have for the vast majority of my 14 year career)

[@maggiealelew]

Ever since his necessary yacht birthday party at the height of the pandemic he lost all respect from me. He spews out insignificant noise

[@amadvm9]

Thank you for making a reaction and keeping it so balanced. I know that this is a painful time, and owners often feel grief and guilt that makes them reach out to find a way to cope, and unfortunately in many individuals (especially those in the medical field) they go the route of focusing on possible missteps that may have or seem as if they could have been prevented. It does not change the outcome, but it can provide some comfort. I have found that if you look for something to have been done "wrong" you can find a way to interpret it as such. My clients are largely referral and the number of times they come to me speaking about how they don't trust their family vet or that a previous procedure was "botched" (I loathe that term so much) is almost uncountable, and I have never once played into this because creating mistrust in one part of our community creates mistrust for all of us. I always say that we can only go on what we know at the time of a procedure and do our best, I was not there but I believe that their vet had the best interest of their pet at heart, and now that we are here, we will also do our best with our new information. I will say a huge part of surgical consults is what I call "scaring people" about things that are unlikely to happen, but are never impossible. Like most complications, there are multiple steps and events that all have to go poorly (or not ideally). It could be that if they had done a more marginal excision (obviously I did not see the mass) it could have healed better, could be if they had done more frequent bandage changes with the surgeon something could have been noted faster or revised, perhaps if they had left it in place it would have been perfectly quiet for the rest of her life, but it could also be that this was one of the approx. 10% of grade 1 soft tissue sarcomas that would metastasize. It is a very good point, as well, that you do not know the grade or the margins until you send that mass in. I trust that if this was a surgeon, all these warnings were discussed (all except the 5 year survival rate, that is not a common metric in canine studies) and balanced before a procedure. It what makes a specialty consult different, we have the time to go over all of this in detail before a procedure and guide owners in their decision making process. I am sad this happened, and happy she is healing, but to echo many others here, the original video was very colored by emotion that unfortunately can lead to some serious consequences for already strained veterinarian/client relationships and could even add to mistrust of all medical professionals.

[@bevalexander5897]

Even if Dr Mike couldn’t have been to the appt w/the surgeon, he could have been on the phone and asked his questions himself. I would take my own pet to the vet. I would check on him/her constantly after surgery, and if anything seemed wrong, I would have my pet back at the vets. I don’t have any idea who Dr Mike is, but he is pretty good at dumping blame on everyone but himself.

[@jamiewells933]

This is a super balanced, non-reactive take and I really appreciate it. Dr. Mike is clearly upset about the outcome of the situation but you were able to clear up some misunderstanding without bashing him. I wish we saw more reactions like this on social media. Thanks for setting the example.

[@DVMCellini]

Thank you!

[@pokeshack7560]

I agree that Dr. Mike shouldn't have depended on the dad for information, but I don't think he is dissing vets. He's showed his respect for vets before, and it only referring to his vets.

[@bnaseams]

I’m a current veterinary internal medicine resident so while I don’t know a lot of the specifics of surgery I refer plenty of my patients for certain procedures. I always go over the risks with owners, and I know our surgery department will also go over them. Thank you so much for making this video, I had so many thoughts/comments while watching the Dr. Mike video and unfortunately he had turned comments off so there was no way to educate him or advocate for the veterinarian. I don’t think people in human healthcare realize just how different veterinary medicine is from human medicine, and with them sometimes I feel that little bit of knowledge they have becomes dangerous.

[@DVMCellini]

I just don't know why he's treating his vets the way that I KNOW he would hate if it were being done to him.

[@haleyleone1423]

100000% agree. I used to work as a receptionist in vet med for 3 years and had to make the switch to human medicine because of the burnout. I had all the same concerns as well when I watched the video initially. Especially with the communication issues.

[@nomnoms54]

Yeah there's definitely some issues with this. From the very beginning there seemed to be a huge lack of communication on his part. If he couldnt be there for an appointment, how does he know exactly what was asked and said? Did he ask his father for the paperwork? Did he send a note with his specific questions? He only talked to someone after the fact. We see this often when spouses approve something that their partner is not aware of until pick up. The telephone game does not end well.

[@Aiewqat]

I don't know what it is with pets and people not taking them to their vets themselves, but I've seen it so frequently. Not only is it difficult to take history but also any decision-making is hindered by the absence of the owner. Unfortunately, we as vets get blamed for any communication issues that arise along the way even if it isn't our fault.

[@victoriadelano6]

I love how you handled this! What is the deal with the arrogance and dismissiveness of MDs towards DVMs? I’m exhausted by it from the MDs around us who know one of our kids is pre-vet. I have finally stopped keeping my mouth shut and ask point blank the acceptance rate for their program and if they are just jealous they couldn’t get into vet school. The human MD ego towards DVMs needs to stop! I don’t know anything about that MD, but he needs to hold the mirror of fault up and look into it.

[@marginalman8044]

Nurses and MDs can be some of the most challenging clients in VetMed , in my experience…

[@bestfriendsvet]

I've been a DVM for 20 years and working in the profession for 30. I never tell people what I do unless I'm pressed for some reason. Also, my husband and kids, mom, etc. all know to keep it quiet. I don't tell MDs either unless they are a. giving me anesthesia (in which case I'm kind of a jerk because I will dictate what I am and am not getting), or b. starting to screw up my care (I suffer from two rare diseases and oftentimes know more about them--and my own case, in particular--than the MD). As far as 99% of strangers can tell, I "work with animals" for a living (and fly under the radar, doing so).

[@andydoufreisn2973]

Not enough people are becoming vets. We need to treat our veterinarians better or else it will be a niche profession soon.

[@vettech8509]

How about PAYING our veterinarians better?

[@andydoufreisn2973]

@@MacchiatoSwirlGirl I dunno an ovh aka a spay is like $60-100k in human medicine with two days hospitalization it’s like $5k in vet med. At what point do you accept responsibility as an owner? This post and this attitude is why no one wants to come to this field. Shall they work for free?

[@sierratorres4695]

@@andydoufreisn2973 what places are charging 5k for a canine OVH?? The many practices I’ve worked at it’s been roughly $200-500, even if there were complications and the dog needed overnight care, it still wouldn’t exceed much over 1k max.

[@nexusk9services194]

I have an “aggressive” tripod Pyrenees with me right now that was returned to a rescue. Watching his brain work through making normal everyday decisions is a new experience.

[@mihaelgalovic9729]

How could Dr. Mike have ignored the lump for years? I understand that due to many obligations, the owners cannot come to the consultation in person, but I believe that Dr. Mike, as the owner of the animal, should have made the vet visit/surgeon appointment in person. I strongly doubt that the surgeon left out the story about the risks that such a procedure entails... The simplest thing is to put all the blame on the "incompetent" surgeon. This part with the interruption of circulation, which is caused by a large defect caused by mass removal, does not make sense, the collaterals cover that part very efficiently and quickly. Maybe Doctor Mike's father didn't listen carefully to the post-operative care instructions at home?

[@leahwithheld783]

My thoughts exactly…could have been removed when it was much smaller. If the vet didn't recommend that (and I bet he/she did), why didn't they pursue it sooner? Surely physicians know about aspirates?

[@mihaelgalovic9729]

@@leahwithheld783 exactly! The biggest mistake is that he sent another person instead of going personally. After all, there was no need to perform the operation immediately - he could have gone for a second opinion (in person). exactly! It was not urgent, after all they had been waiting too long anyway…

[@orenaofer]

DI resident here. Wondering if CT for surgical planning was ever brought up. There's no way our board-certified surgeons would have cut this without advanced imaging. Also, even if it wasn't brought up by the vet, you'd think a physician would know enough to bring up further imaging.

[@DVMCellini]

is that a standard thing to do imaging of the leg prior to sarcoma removal?

[@marginalman8044]

@@DVMCellini my dog (I’m in GP) had a sarcoma removed from his leg at the AMC in NYC and a CT was not done. If it had been on his thorax or felt adhered to bone/muscle, sure, but I have removed sarcomas in GP and we don’t have CT either and not every client can afford a specialty hospital visit

[@orenaofer]

@@DVMCellini Yeah and they also often have an RT study performed while they're in the scanner at our tertiary care center.

[@Benjamin-tw1gw]

I hate him so much especially when he told us to quarantine but he himself flew private jets for parties Then he didn't have the balls to post an apology on his main channel he only posted it on his channels where he has much less of a following

[@sasuxsakuxfan]

seems like he always pushes the blame or responsibility on others besides himself

[@emilyromero7247]

Dr Mike made a video a couple of years ago about how his dog had Lyme disease. He spoke badly about his vet there too. Really rubbed me the wrong way.

[@marginalman8044]

So basically his dog must not have been on a tick preventative as a responsible pet owner would have ensured

[@sierratorres4695]

He definitely should’ve been there to speak with the surgeon as the owner of the dog. If he couldn’t be physically present, then being available by phone during the consultation should’ve been arranged. There’s been many times as a pet owner that I’ve had to have my family member take my dog for me, but I always made sure I was on the phone during the exam, ready to ask questions to the vet and hear what their assessment was. The same goes with the post operative care instructions, it sounds like the father was given those, but again he should’ve been the one to speak to them, not saying that the father was ill equipped to handle the post op care, but as the pet owner, that should be your responsibility to know what to follow and what to look out for.

[@VetSkye]

Let's get this video to Dr. Mike! I agree with the points you made about miscommunication and the telephone game between him, his dad, and the vet. There's usually a surgical consent form detailing the procedure to be done as well as making it clear that the client understands the risks of surgery. I do want to hear what his dad understood before they proceeded with surgery.

[@gracielac.p.reiser4320]

Hi jim. I am nota a surgeon, but a general vet, and when I saw this video, I thought several things, just like you. For example, after the surgery Mike did not talk to his dad for a week. I think he needed to check on Roxy earlier. And another thing is that with a major surgery like this we normally check the wound and the dog in general on the following days ( several days) to see that everything is alright! Regards 🇺🇾

[@Elspm]

Generally, I think sending your dog to the vet with someone else for something as serious as surgery is the source of the error. Obviously, in emergency situations there might not be a choice. But with a planned surgery he should have been putting himself in those conversations as the owner. He threw his dad under the bus as well, but nothing stopped him ringing up the vet himself if he felt his questions weren't answered.

[@damiansnow6170]

Vet student right here really interesting video. Nice insight also about the communication part which is vital

[@DVMCellini]

Thanks doc

[@felicia3029]

Thanks for reviewing this video I love you and Dr Mike

[@DVMCellini]

Yeah I think Dr. Mike is usually on point from what I’ve seen but this I took issue with a bit.

[@reallylate8092]

My Vet always sat down with me before any of my babies had an operation with a form that I signed that confirmed everything the vet was going to do and the possible outcomes. Even to the point did I want my babies to be resuscitated if they had a heart attack during the operation. I don't understand why if the dog is Dr Mike, why he didn't take the time or care to be the primary person responsible for his own dogs health needs. I would never ask my parents who treat my 4 legged babies just like the two legged human grandchildren to take them to the vet or human doctor.

[@bettysmith4527]

I think it's not his dog anymore, it's his father's dog, his father now owns the dog... Sounds like the father was absolutely clueless and this guy didn't get as involved as he should have.

[@gyrfalcon0077]

We've had dogs pass unexpectedly, and neither instance was the vet's fault at all, but my dad acted like Dr. Mike and blamed the vet which was even more upsetting when I was grieving. It's always upsetting, really really upsetting to lose a dog or have a sick dog, but it's not usually the vet's fault, they're doing their best with often unfair expectations, I feel.

[@DVMCellini]

I can’t stand it when people do that. Happens to MD’s too though.

[@Maggie-tr2kd]

What I picked up on in watching this video is that there was a bump growing on Roxie's right paw and it was there for several years before Mike's Dad had it checked out. I'm not a veterinarian but I have been a pet owner for many years. One thing I have learned is that as soon as you first spot something like a bump or anything new, it doesn't hurt to point that out to your veterinarian as soon as possible. It may be nothing, but isn't that the safe course to take rather than wait until something has been growing for several years? Maybe this unfortunate situation could have been avoided by seeking prompt veterinary attention to that bump. That said, I'm glad Roxie appears to have adjusted well to her new life on three legs.

[@martyal]

Dr Mike seems to place blame on everyone else. Anyone around him is responsible for anything that doesn’t suit him. Not my kind of doctor.

[@BadHairdayKimmie]

Did the vet error by doing an unnecessary procedure? Perhaps. We really didn't get many pertinent details. Probably because Doctor Mike didn't get the details. Did the vet error and wrap the leg too tightly? It appears so and it was my first thought when I saw the pic of her leg. It's actually an easy error to make. Too loose and the bandage slides off. Too tight and blood flow is restricted or stopped. Did the vet error by not checking the bandage after a couple of days. Perhaps. I don't like bandages staying on for more than 2-3 days for this reason. Did Dad error by dawdling once he checked her leg. Absolutely. It was too late by the time the wrap actually came off but she should have been rushed to the vet without hesitation once he saw the state of the leg. Did Mike error by not being present or at least talking to the surgeon on the phone himself BEFORE the procedure? ABSOLUTELY! This is the time to get all of your questions answered. Did Doctor Mike error by not being present or at least talking to the surgeon on the phone himself AFTER the procedure? ABSOLUTELY! Get the details. Was Doctor Mike amazingly tone deaf by asking a dog missing one front leg to high five him knowing that she would fall because she IS MISSING THE OTHER FRONT LEG? WTF, dude? I almost commented on his page about it but after some thought decided against it because didn't want all the hate from his millions of fans who will defend him. Everyone makes mistakes. Unfortunately for Roxy, several people errored and her remaining couple of years she is now missing a leg. It's OK now that she is still fit, but when she becomes unstable through aging, well, that's going to be a different story.

[@thamiresnunes2153]

I commented this exact notion on his video. I was so disappointed 😞

[@yann8593]

I wonder how he would know the survival rate without taking the tumor out and sending to histopathology for grading.😅

[@gwynethpotter3216]

I saw that video and was so hoping you’d respond!! I don’t expect human doctors to know the complexity of the vet med culture issues but his video does not help 😢

[@pocketphrog1777]

Yea, I saw that video and was suspicious. Not enough information.

[@graceengland8147]

Thank you for reacting to Dr. Mike's video! I watched it recently and it didn't feel right to me...while I was grateful he didn't absolutely malign all vets and the entire veterinary profession, he definitely threw some professional shade, like you said. I think the thing that bothered me most is that he didn't admit how often breakdowns in communication & unfortunate situations happen in HUMAN medicine. I know from being a frequent patient that those things happen ALL THE TIME in human med, maybe even more than in vet med. He just took no responsibility.

[@aff77141]

He's thrown professional shade at human medicine practice for the same thing. he's being a responsible person and reminding people to do their due diligence, no matter what type of professional they're trusting, because you never know what could happen and who may be untrustworthy

[@tazza261]

This is really interesting and I think you discussed it in a very professional and relatively non-biased manner. I hope that your perspective can rack up as many views as his.

[@patrickliu5994]

It would be cool to see dr. Mike invite a vet onto his channel to talk about how vet med and human med can work together, and so they could talk about the issues you cover in this video. Thanks as always!

[@MilanoDynamite]

Another great video! Btw, I realy dig your video intro. Have a great weekend Dr. Cellini.

[@tanyarobles9340]

Lmfao "not this Dr. MIKE the real Dr.Mike🤣🤣🤣

[@dogtorkristi]

You delivered this video so well. He should have been the one chatting with the surgeon. There’s a 99.99% chance there was probably a paper with all the issues that they signed too 😂 yikes

[@DVMCellini]

Consent forms anyone? Anyone???

[@DoctorMike]

Pretty unfortunate to see two doctors making jokes and using a laughing emoji on a video on my family dog's cancer diagnosis and subsequent amputation. Its fine to wonder about the conversation my father (who is Roxy's current owner & caretaker *as stated in the video*) had with the surgeon, but to assume incompetancy or incompleteness on his end, without evidence, is fairly biased. I was always respectful of the vet and the surgeon, despite the negative outcome, and hope you can do the same.

[@nadinabbott3991]

I am the one who takes Dex to his vet. I tend to ask these questions. Quality of life matters. But my hubby would not be equipped to ask.

[@bbywolfff]

There’s definitely more to this story. Thank goodness he didn’t name the veterinarian so we didn’t have another Maine Vetertinary Medical Center situation. Be present for your pets consults is the only take away from his video.

[@amberrider7275]

So glad you reacted to this video. I 100% agree the game of telephone here played a big part in the outcome. If he had so many questions he should have just told his Dad to have the vet/ surgeon contact him (Dr.Mike) directly to give all details and options for Roxy.

[@Xristina14]

I follow Dr Mike on his dad is actually the owner of the dog with Mike. If you follow him you will realise he isn't trying to blame the vet, he is just trying to make his followers aware of how to avoid making the same mistakes. Obviously he is incredibly upset as Roxy is part of his family but honestly he really isn't 'throwing shade' at vets!

[@asherkarr5096]

My only a tech but all the surgeries I've been a part of the doctor goes over all the risks with the owner

[@iluvglue]

I get the whole "ask the question yourself thing" but Roxy has lives with dr.mikes dad for years now and he mentioned that his dad takes care of the vet stuff. Roxy is dr.mikes dads dog in anyway it matters which lessens the relevance off that argument

[@michellevazquez1203]

As his owner, he should have been there for his dog or made time to ask those questions himself not depend on someone else. It Communication is key between OWNER and VET. I do think the example questions he provided for a senior dog are great examples. But at the end of the day he wasn't the one that communicated with the vet or even followed up with his father till her saw the picture of her bandage.

[@anpanmomdesu]

Never heard of him... 🤔

[@baconloversunite]

As a radiation oncology vet tech, I completely agree with EVERYTHING you said. There are so many factors that could have caused Roxy to lose her limb, but I truly don’t believe the vet not effectively communicating risks is the root of the problem.

[@naturspirit]

I am a GP veterinarian but I perform multiple surgeries weekly and I agree with you that I just don’t think its possible that potential risks were not communicated with the father. I and all my colleagues at my clinic always discuss risks for all surgeries. Not only this, but all our discharges have instructions on what to look for PostOP that can signal problems and to contact us (or an ER if we are closed) when there is a problem! Any bandage discharge has “return immediately if the bandage is soiled or gets wet, the toes look swollen or abnormal, or if there is a foul smell”. I feel like he knows he played a role in his dog losing the leg (through disinterest in direct communication, poor at home care post-op and/or inaction when a problem was noted) but doesn’t want to admit it.

[@yourtransformationgenie]

I watched Dr Mike's video and do not feel he trashed his vet, but he is allowed to raise questions and it did not seem to me that the risk of the husky losing a limb was properly discussed....

[@yourtransformationgenie]

Thanks for the hearted comment. I do agree with you that Dr Mike should have asked the Qs himself. esp when it concerned his dog. I am not sure why he didn't do this. You run the risk of things being wrongly relayed, or distorted accidentally through the use of a different idiolect, for example, after all... there may also be an element of some detail being missing, despite the explanations (that is not a criticism of him). I think that perhaps Dr Mike feels he should have done the interrogation himself, but isn't emotionally ready to field the guilt of not doing that himself and so is ascribing it... I can understand this, but if this is the case, then he needs to address this. It's an EQ issue and he is a role model for so many, including me. ...If there is one thing which my own (long and painful) therapy taught me - and that is that you have to go and meet the dragon that burned you, no matter how far back it was. I know that not many people do this - I've been working in my field for 23 years and counting and can say, hand on heart, that this is a rare thing - but you must do it if you wish to heal because no-one else will and trauma does not heal on its own. He has a therapy dog, Bear, for allieviating his anxiety, and also confessed to being a major over-thinker, whcih is a sure sign he suffered trauma (I experienced the same). The fact that he needs a therapy dog for anxiety, tells me that he has not yet done the work of that yet, or at least not fully, so there is a certain brittleness there, I think... and again that is not a criticism....not that I am congratulating myself here, but my gut feeings about these things are rarely wrong...

[@ElfLiberationForce]

I’m also not convinced that the dogs surgeon was truly a DACVS. While a grade 1 (low grade) soft tissue sarcoma could likely be removed fine with a general practitioner, I think that the first question/step in all of this is knowing what is being done by whom. I’m certain that a DACVS would have discussed more detail about grade vs stage and risks and complications of surgery. I agree, very rough tone here. Seems like a lot of blame on the vet and not so much of a “I really wish I was there” type response.

[@DVMCellini]

I wonder that too but the whole “wait for the surgeon to get here” thing makes me think it was a dacvs

[@GroovyGrov]

I love Dr. Mike. But, maybe it’s defensiveness for the profession, he let me down on this one. Now I’m questioning………… Really, everything you said. Make sure you are present to get the information, you make the decision based on your pets age and life expectancy, you as a physician maybe should have been checking the paw frequently for swelling and infection. Also that bandage I bet got wet!

[@DVMCellini]

that or his dog was moving around too much, who knows.

[@gracielac.p.reiser4320]

Exactly. After a surgery like that check ups every day!!!

[@shayla8713]

I haven't liked Dr. Mike ever since he went partying during the height of COVID after asking everyone to stay home and isolate. Doesn't seem like a great guy

[@lilyw3189]

Thanks for presenting the other side of the equation. It does frustrate me often when I have a 20-30 minute consultation going through everything with a person and then it turns out the owner is actually someone else who is not present and whose priorities are perhaps different. While I can understand the frustration of what Dr. Mike was going through since the complication occurred, as Roxy was living with the father and the consultation was through his father, then it makes sense that the surgeon explains it all to the father who is actually present and is representing himself as the decision maker for the dog. I do have clients who say they will not make a decision without consulting with their family or spouse etc first which is very fair, but if the presenting owner is informed and gives consent then we take it as a green light to go ahead - it is not up to the veterinarian to check whether there is a great aunt or cousin or father in law or son who might also have a vested interest and want to have a say - the presenting owner has to be the one to disclose that.

[@dragonsheen3049]

Vet assistant, not a licensed tech, but the job was the same. Definitely seems more likely that the bandage was on too tight, and all that husky fur would have hid any discoloration or swelling that would have given it away. I wish that Dr Mike would have at least clarified that such a complication is pretty damn rare. Although, I will admit I'm a little confused why Roxy's entire leg was bandaged when the mass was on or just above her paw. In my experience, bandages have never been necessary for a post-op incision, save some rather outlandish drain situations. Even if they had to remove more tissue than was optimal, they should have still been able to close her up; because if they couldn't close her up that is a WILDLY different post-op situation, and they would have absolutely made that clear at discharge. I've dealt with a number of wounds that we had to have heal by second intention, and every one of those was a wet-to-dry bandage that was changed daily, if not every 12 hours. Bandaging an incision without instructions to return for a change makes almost no sense, since any incision needs to be checked frequently for signs of infection or failure. Maybe the incision was at the joint and the surgeon worried about tension, but even then, why bandage the entire leg and not just the joint? It makes me feel like there's more to the situation than was being let on.

[@gretasimmons8987]

If it’s not your field please be respectful and ask the right questions! Vet have to put up with pets pain and peoples not knowing! So they deserve a big fat hand 👍 l live in a place where we don’t have a vet available all the time! Please don’t make they jobs harder! Vets are important! 👍

[@patriciasantos6001]

Hello Dr Cellini. Thank you for reacting to Dr Mike's video, you made some valid points . I am also a vet and I saw the video a few days back. I believe the vet and vet surgeon appointed to Roxy's case did explain the procedure, the possible complications, did the staging before the actual surgery... but this was all discused with Dr Mike's father. His father made the decisions. No vet would perform a surgery without the (written) consent of the owner! The issues Dr Mike refers in his video were talked about and discussed, just not with him (because he was not present in any of the consultations).

[@c.barrett5114]

Its not his dog it is his Dads dog. Thats why he lives with his Dad. Just the dog is very close to him so its in a way his dog too if that makes sense. To me the issue is not what risks they went over prior to the appointment because I have no doubt either that the surgeon did but to me the issue is the vet putting the bandage on too tight, taking out too much tissue, going through with the surgery that is now worse than they expected and obviously not having another risk assessment and to me why was their no follow up appointment a couple of days after the surgery? Do you so surgeries? And thank you for the video. I learned a lot and it gave me a lot to think about.

[@martina5346]

My dog had to undergo emergency surgery becauce of a disc prolapse. In the morning he couldn't move his hind legs properly. Our vet send us straight to a surgeon, who operated in the late afternoon. The surgeon explained the surgery to me and I understood that there was no good option besides surgery. But the surgeon didn't explain to me how the next days could look like. He only said that it should already be better in the next days.The next day our dog didn't have movement in his hind legs at all, it was worse than before. And as the surgeon had been so optimistic, we thought that the surgery didn't work as planed and that he was paralysed now. We called and were told to come by with the dog in the late afternoon. After horrible hours of waiting the surgeon looked at our dog unable to use his hind legs and dared to say: "Doesn't look too bad! It can be a couple of days before the dog regains use of his legs. No problem." I was really angry and told him that he didn't mention anything like this yesterday. He only responded that he didn't want to worry me with worst cases. Excuse me? If I had been informed of this possible outcome of the next few days, I wouldn't have panicked and worried like I had now because he did only talk optimistically. I'm to this day angry about this and it's been years. Our dog got better over the next weeks thank god, but the communication was terrible.

[@transgenderguineapigguy]

i watched that and im worried how this will impact vets

[@user-kt9tl1ue9j]

Sort of a bump? Thanks doc!!

[@HTAYLOR1013]

I work as a CVT, and sooo many times I will see a pet and start talking to the person who brought the dog in and they look at me like I'm speaking a different language, then I'm informed they're not the owner, it's their son's/neighbors/boyfriend's dog.... soo frustrating

[@southernbelladonna78]

Oh my God, I can not imagine my dog sitting around with a dead foot and I didn't realize. That would be so sad. 😥

[@chellyberry4434]

I was a previous tech major and you covered everything I would have said as well. I can see some points made by the pet owner but first concern was not checking the lump asap. Teaching clients in vet clinics about testing their animals lumps and bumps is so super important and this is another example of that. Also the communication yes! Id recommend if someone else is watching your pet and doing their check ups to type up your questions and have the doctor write the response or have the friend/family member write down the information. This goes for positive and negative information such as theyre a healthy weight or these are the possible ways continuing to eat this diet could negatively affect your animal. Taking notes during vet vitits is important but for humans we need notes too at doctors sometimes so we dont forget new medicine and so on.

[@pizzahamburgesa8006]

seriously debated sending this to the podcast so you could give your professional opinion. the KZbin gods heard my prayers, amen! "the real dr mike " xD

[@LKA-si7ln]

Not a physician or healthcare worker, but the second Dr. Mike said that he wasn’t there for any of the appointments and that his dad took the dog in for surgery without telling Dr. Mike, I knew that it was FAR more likely that this could have been the result of poor communication between the dog’s owners/guardians than some kind of failure to communicate on the part of the vet. I think there’s a little more to the story than Dr. Mike wants to admit. Either way, I’m sorry that that sweet girl lost her leg 😢 But glad she’s doing well despite the circumstances.