Are Video Games Doing TOO Much? | The Geekenders Ep 50

[@Ma-Giik]

YOOO ITS THE GEEKEND

[@RoyalParsley]

I wanna give a shout-out to the editor for putting footage of the topic they're talking about in the recent episodes. I know it takes some work and I really appreciate it. Also, I really like Jesse's shirt.

[@BaronVonHoovy]

Are you sure it's an editor? Plenty of video podcasts pull up footage of whatever they're talking about while they're live. Still nice, either way.

[@RoyalParsley]

@@BaronVonHoovy I assumed because the video footage appears to be from the exact point they're talking about, and it doesn't seem like Dodger or Jesse are pulling it live. Though to be fair, I haven't watched the show live so maybe I'm completely wrong.

[@Burred11]

@@RoyalParsley Also, Dodger praised Jesse('s editor) for putting the relevant footage in when they are talking about something in a previous episode.

[@crendor]

I would watch hallmark movies - I already have

[@SixshotRevan]

My Mother constantly watches Hallmark movies at Christmas. I play bingo with the movie tropes when I visit her.

[@Atratzu]

Way to set the record straight Crendor. Lol

[@JaziB]

Congrats on 50 episodes guys!! Super happy you all started this thing and that it's kept going. :D

[@zepo82]

bloody hell.. I have watched 90% of them and thought it was about 25! I normally watch when I finish work Saturday morning after a night shift, and fall asleep right after. Time goes fast!

[@cedricksusername]

Legally it's not the weekend until Geekenders is uploaded

[@AFR0PR1NC3]

Yeah, that law is the only good thing that was voted for this election.

[@Fuego_Mike]

Facts 💯

[@Cresseliana]

Agreed!

[@scribeofhorrors1269]

I've never agreed with a statement more

[@ValForVictory]

fun fact about the canary in the coal mine thing is that the miners felt REALLY bad about letting the birds die in the mine. so what they would do is have basically little air lock boxes for them where they can use stored oxygen to keep it alive.

[@khazad2112]

The concept also carried over into the information age, since social media companies would have a so-called "warrant canary" in their annual reports, saying that they had not received any government requests for information, since they couldn't positively confirm the existence of such requests. Once they remove that sentence, you knew the government had requested and received info about specific content and/or users.

[@Sushidotexe]

Different thumbnail template this time! Oh baby now we’re geekin!

[@cormacbevins9679]

2 more episodes and this will have been a thing for a year. what a wild ride.

[@Purkinje90]

Jesse! your camera is fixed! you're looking smooth and high frame rate, my friend

[@jamesbrunton9507]

Not gonna lie, here in Scotland when sunset is now before 4PM, having nice decorations like your Christmas tree and towns with pretty lights everywhere just helps you face the misery of this time of year.

[@Zectifin]

I can see that. I grew up in Chicago and there were so many people putting up lights and decorations and then my parents moved us to Phoenix. It still gets dark decently late here and we never have any snow, its still sunny and our December weather is probably close to your August weather. Not many people decorate here and it doesn't feel very christmasy when people are in shorts and theres just dirt and Cacti outside.

[@lucadev985]

Not the teacher in Jesse dying when Dodger didn't realize birds were taken into mines to test the air quality.

[@amythistxue1]

I think some of that is where they grew up, if I remember right Jesse came from Ohio which is mining country so the phrase was probably in more common use compared to in Oregon where Dodger grew up

[@emm4rmstrong]

​@@amythistxue1 Oregon has mines. Their mines are mostly located in the southwest and northeast of the state in the Cascades and the Blue Mountains. It was part of the Gold Rush. There's currently 32 operating mines, including the only emery mine in the US.

[@lucadev985]

@@amythistxue1 That's fair

[@charleswisconsin9196]

it's not? from the sounds of it you mean to say that's exactly what's happening.

[@CompiledGabriel]

I love that this show has evolved into "Dodger and Jesse recommend games to each other for an hour and a half"

[@The1neo34]

Geekenders is sooooooo good, I find games on this podcast I have never heard of before! Also welcome to the weekend everyone

[@TheLittlehopeful]

YO ITS THE WEEKEND! Congrats on 50 episodes!

[@GLT86]

Totally with Jesse. Love the vibe and stuff of Christmas and other holidays, but I will NEVER get off my ass and decorate for them. 🤣

[@DrWickermoon]

I specifically watched this episode, hoping Jesse and Dodger talk about the Golden Idol games and YUSS! They did. Oh Jesse, you would love the story and the puzzles!!

[@misskaydie]

I think momma Cox would love it too, seeing how she loved Obra Dinn!

[@mrwoka]

Congratulations on the 50th episode!! Is been a joy to listen to you both goofing around again :)

[@TheDablaster]

Assassins creed is a good example of big games not being great. they have kept increasing the scale of the world and it just became more tedious. I just want those games to be smaller in scale like the Ezio games

[@fizzlebeef8069]

One of the better parts of the weekend!

[@RETRODIBUS]

Thank you for your podcast. It makes the whole week worth.

[@D-Corporation]

I have been watching since the TGS days. I think I actually started watching because Felicia Day was on. Just want to say thank you Jesse and Dodger for all the years of fun. I started watching in middle school and I'm grinding out my thesis right now, thanks for always keeping me company through these labs and data sheets. Love you Geeks!

[@user-bt2od3yw1b]

Congrats on 50 episodes 👍 Love this podcast

[@BotflyAtrophy]

I know it's been said before but, I find it wild that your offices look like you're in the same room more than when you actually shared an office. Love y'all ❤

[@fujin27]

Weekend time!

[@AgaricRook]

Wait, Dodger got a new cat?! Kind of disappointed that it's named 'Gus' though. Which Sherlock and Watson already being there and I know she joked about naming their feral barn cat Moriarty (though I don't know if they actually did or not) I kinda would hope for keeping the naming theme going. Like maybe 'Mycroft' or 'Lestrade'.

[@liraelgirl8]

He's her mother in law's cat who recently learned how to get in Dodger's office

[@Natasniel]

Look at those two beautiful people, continue being wonderful you two.

[@NickCombs]

On the subject of Nightmare Before Christmas and spooky Santa stuff, The Christmas Carol is certainly the OG. Watching the Muppets version is my fam's weird tradition for the holidays. We don't really do gifts anymore and it's fine, but something feels wrong if we skip that movie.

[@Rynewulf]

Oddly enough Christmal Carol is a pretty good match with Nighmare Before Christmas, since it was traditional across the Anglosphere to tell ghost stories in winter leading up to Christmas. But then The Christmas Carol was so popular an absurd number of imitators flooded the market and by the 1900s the entire section of the planet was fed up of winter festive ghost stories, outside of the BBC doing an M R James adaptation once every few years for it

[@November5400]

ITS HERE! Let’s goooo! ❤️

[@BlinkyDrakkin]

Catching up on some Geekenders, and I cannot stress enough how amazing Case of the Golden Idol is! I didn't play it until a while after it came out, and it was a rare case of me beating the main game and then IMMEDIATELY buying all the DLC to continue playing then and there.

[@Vardagaladhiel]

I love just being able to listen to you two chat!

[@Lepa2793]

I've been inactive so long because of my busy life I didn't know Doogs and Sam had another kitty!!! Is sweet bby Gus a Maine Coon? What a gorgeous cat ❤️❤️❤️ also this is the first episode of geekenders I've had a chance to sit down and listen to and I didn't even realize how much I missed you teo just talking bout stuff together, it's so calming to listen to, so thank you for being a little pocket of calm in this hectic world.

[@BusWindow]

This show is my favorite way to start the weekend

[@HailBabalon]

My life will be complete when Jesse and Dodger release the new Life Is Strange gameplay.

[@Nora-rb6tr]

I saw dodger almost make a Hey Deez nuts joke @1:32:10

[@RedSntDK]

Blew my mind that someone like Dodger hadn't heard of that expression "canary in the coal mine".

[@sojinnn]

Hard agree about open worlds. Elden Ring is amazingly beautiful and so fun, but man, it took me 120hrs to beat it the first time. That's insane. Bloodborne is my fav From game bc it's short, sweet, and replayable.

[@James-u1y]

Inquisition and Veilguard are two sides of the same coin, one is overly complex and the other is overly simplified. Two extremes of the same thing. Bioware has struggled with game balance for over a decade, while many of our top studios are getting pretty damn good at timing and balance in-game. Something like Avowed and Outer Worlds are likely the right middle ground of size.

[@AgaricRook]

One of the interesting/frustrating things about the Dark Pictures types of games is that while they always include super duchey characters that you would love to let die, they also often do a great job at redeeming those characters later and just 'letting them die' very often leads into missing some of the best scenes of the game. Mike from Until Dawn comes to mind (though he has plot armor for almost the entire game so maybe not the best example of what I'm talking about). Maybe a better example is Emma from The Quarry (who probably was who Dodger was talking about) because they make you dislike her pretty early on but also easy to kill her off the first time you get control of her and I've seen more than a few playthroughs where they deliberately let that happen because they just didn't like her, but she's not a minor character and killing her and those playthroughs always then feel so off because there's clearly something missing since all the scenes she's supposed to be part of just are now not there.

[@Vicioussama]

Dooger never heard of "Canary in the coal mines" ? That's impressive :O

[@Xanzalur]

Especially since living in England for quite a while now, with England being THE coal mining culture x)

[@Rynewulf]

@@XanzalurA lot has changed here since the 80s

[@charleswisconsin9196]

@@Rynewulf has it really?

[@TheGrasshopper4000]

It's time for my geek to be ended!

[@dojelnotmyrealname4018]

What Trash Goblin is missing in my opinion is any kind of purpose. You *can* make weird shit, but you can't do anything with it. So the game boils down to unboxing random stuff until you find the thing the customer wants, which they will state in direct terms, clean it, assemble it and sell it, and repeat. There's no decision making involved in anything you do. It's a digital fidget toy.

[@Tongle07]

Yo, it's the weekend! And I almost scrolled past the video because I didn't recognize the thumbnail.

[@andromidius]

Canary in a coalmine has a slightly different meaning to me - in that its essentially admitting someone is disposable without them realising it, aka a dupe or dummy. Being the canary means "you go first, check its safe, sucka".

[@meraxion]

On Tears of the Kingdom and Jesse getting distracted; I actually found ToTK's story to be one of the more enjoyable Zelda stories recently, and definitely up there with some of the previous more linear Zeldas. Also, hearing Jesse talk about games with too much to do in them is very funny side by side with his clearing the FF14 map of all side quests. I'm not sure 14 always respects your time, but if I had the time I would do the same, especially for the modern expansions, so I'm not throwing any stones, just remarking on it .

[@hass556]

Jesse didn’t even know the name of games. Clearly he’s not a Zelda fan. I think we can ignore his opinion here. It’s fine if he doesn’t like those types of games. But he’s doesn’t speak for everyone. I hope they can continue to make it for the one who do like it like me. I enjoyed every min and I found the story to be amazing in tears. He can just skip it next time.

[@Sol_Mooney]

Yay my favorite part of the weekend.

[@SupremelyCaffeinated]

Hey Jesse, just a shoutout that I always look forward to this podcast. But have ya'll ever thought about inviting some old-time co-optional guest like Nerdcubed, Pokket, Maggie Krohn, and Erika Ishii?

[@Jeremy-83]

So I bought Cyberpunk last week and been playing it alot and to my surprise, while wandering around who do I run into but someone who sounded exactly like Jesse in a very compromising state. Imagine my surprise when I found out that it actually was Jesse. 😂😂😂

[@MADMAXX-7]

This is truly a gem! Your videos are a constant source of joy! (Also imagine my profile pic was a butt or something)

[@UltimaJosh]

These big open world games are typically the best selling games when you do them right they’re good and when you do them bad you’re Ubisoft

[@LexiOrchard]

Putting nightmare before Christmas baubles on the tree whilst listening to this video

[@XenosFFBE]

Love you guys!!!! ♥

[@jackkinsey]

Absolute spot on impression of the Pope! Like freaky good!

[@TheUnknownSmash]

I think ppl underestimate the casual gamers which will just buy the next Assassins Creed, the next CoD and maybe another big launch a year and are happy gaming those 1-2h a week. They are happy with big and even uninspired titles and dont compare them to smaller, more coherse games. They are happy doing shit in their one game they play a year or two. And those are a majority of ppl buying games. We are niche.

[@synthiandrakon]

One important thing that makes Yakuza minigames work is that Yakuza isn't really on open world game. The world is small, you have your substories and you have your minigames and that is it. You aren't expected to do anything else on the map, there is no camps to destroy, heck there is no gameplay In the overworld appart from random battles.

[@chaosdestructionlove]

I wonder if that hot frosty movie was inspired by Kate Bush's song misty in which a woman has a dramatic one night stand with a snowman. It's genuinely a great song but also the theme is amazing 😂

[@itshobojoe1391]

Happy 1 year anniversary!

[@Benjiman20]

Long time the best episode

[@KunaTheBear]

Okay, but it's not Coal in the Stocking it's "Hallmark Presents: Cole in the Stocking" and the guys name is also Cole.

[@LilFeralGangrel]

I'm really late to the topic (only watched it last night and I was way too sleepy to comment) but on the topic of games being too big, I agree which is why I'm excited that there's been a trend towards creating emergent gameplay instead of making big games. So in this case with Open World games they are very wide, the emergent games are better described as dense. I feel like Baldur's Gate 3 is a good example of this, this isn't an open world game, sure the maps are pretty big as far as CRPGs are concerned. But the game gets most of its complexity from the amount of mechanics that come together. And I know for some people BG3 is way too big of a game which is why I'm glad to point out that there are crpgs like Space Wreck that were specifically made to be short but with many different playstyles and endings. Check it out!

[@SlimeyGuitarStrings]

25:43 Dodger, if you have ever wondered what it's like to be extremely tall, that's literally it. Everyone is short and you hit your head sometimes.

[@spencerdokes6056]

56:15 ..... um, phrasing?

[@synthiandrakon]

On the question of what can companies do to outdo eachother. One idea I have is quantity, it feels like games take soo long to come out, that if companies were to shrink down scope and actually start releasing a game every couple years, they'd receive positive responses. It's like Yakuza games they aren't the most advanced games out there, not the most polished, they have their issues but the fact that you come out on a regular basis has enabled them to grow a loyal active fanbase. Because they have something to look forward to every year or so

[@drakhoon]

Something to remember is the catching mechanic and riding mechanic were all filed and created a year? After palworld was released

[@spencerdokes6056]

3:57 jesse it gives me the ick when ppl say "I could care less"

[@johnoneil9188]

I love open world games. I can literally pump dozens and dozens of hours into one game and just hang out and use any possible reason to spend more time in it. I even collected every single under water collectible in Skellige in Witcher 3. I still can very much tell when a game is wasting my time and is just big for the sake of being big and collectibles are absolutely only there to keep you busy.

[@dreamermagister8561]

I am never listening to this in the gym. You guys made me laugh twice during my sets, you ruined it🤧🤧😂

[@theghostoftom]

Christmas is basically forced in the UK. Nearly everyone is off work, banks and factories shut down. Your family knows this and it's time for distant family to all come together. Personally, I'm not much for the gift giving stuff (I get stressed deciding what people actually want). Thankfully my family started doing the secret Santa thing. But seeing family is everything, The food is great too 😊

[@LunnchBoxx45]

Yo, it's the WEEKEND!!!

[@Duskire]

I’d love for hallmark christmas movie discussions to become a yearly thing.

[@srcocomad]

Flashback to Jesse spending a gazillion hours at the hinterlands.

[@dojelnotmyrealname4018]

I mean some video games surely are too big if you don't have to budget your entertainment. That's the main thing that's around this conversation that most professional gamers don't understand. We have to budget money and fill time. You guys have to budget time.

[@FictionRaider007]

Yes, Jesse, you have to play the Golden Idol games. Given how much you enjoyed Return of the Obra Dinn, Golden Idol feels like a perfect "Jesse Game."

[@ballenboy]

Games become too big when the devs cant make it higher quality so they instead focus on quantity and bigger for more gameplay and time spent. Not always as great but it sure makes the game big, not as good quality of time spent though.

[@ballenboy]

If you dont have a good handle to steer the focused developement, especially with a bigger studio, you can always put people to make extra map, characters, sidequest, and activities.

[@merrickhurst4150]

I remember the original Sam and Doogs Until Dawn playthrough. I remember Death Bonus stream very well

[@lebardmetalarts2918]

KZbinr that covered the fog in Coraline I think is abitfrank 13:36 it’s good video she has lots of great stuff about fairytales deepening the lore just something I’m nerd 😂

[@shaihulud2977]

I would love to watch Jesse play the golden idol or also The Painscreek Killings.

[@JULR0W]

Dodger, Jesse: the word lego is already the plural, there is no "legos" :)

[@ffnbbq]

Jesse, I wouldn't gloss over the main story of Yakuza and lump the series in side contentland. Sure, a lot of people are attracted by the wackiness, but they stay for the heartfelt, emotional storytelling, and gaming's best depiction of fatherhood. The advantage Yakuza/Like A Dragon has is a very experienced development team that have an extremely efficient development pipeline. They generally stick to what they know and can pump out games quickly - Like A Dragon Gaiden was made in much less than a year because they managed to complete most of Infinite Wealth's development early.

[@Atratzu]

24:56 Ebenezer Cox over here. Haha 😂

[@grimscriven]

"They got other work to do" said no one's real boss ever. 😭

[@pinklmaonade]

The weekend starts now y’all!

[@Sodaptive]

i felt elden ring was too big. feels impossible to play without using a guide

[@torylva]

22:30 OH! Actually! She goes back home to celebrate christmas since her big city fiancee is always busy and can't celebrate christmas! But then he surprises her while working and finds her in bed with the old boyfriend on christmas night! BECAUSE HE IS SANTA AND HE CAME DOWN THE CHIMNEY INTO THEIR BEDROOM!

[@artistsometimes2729]

I think on the subject of games being too big, a big part of this is no longer just the open-world model (exemplified in a static context like in GTA 5 or in an autogenerative context like in Minecraft) it is simply that people only play one kind of game and it is still the most popular (though often in a live-service setup). Think of Genshin Impact or WOW or GTA Online. So if you only play one game, because say you want to learn to be good, then you want several games worth of content in one. You either do that through the game, or through sheer number of players often in a battle royale context (Fall Guys, Fortnite etc.). I think open-world kind of developed from a feeling of friction players had with linear games, heavy in cutscenes, with little choice, invisible walls and loading screens. So that drove the appeal of that open-world freedom. Similarly the live-service model derived I think from a frustration with lacklustre multiplayer modes in popular single-player games (say GTA IV or Assassins Creed) that never really filled their full potential. We want to play with friends, we want the feeling of community. As studios have grown more used to producing live service games, which take up most of their production time, and the people going to work in these plays increasingly only play one or two multiplayer games, it has come to dominate in a way that single-player was dominant 10-15 years ago. At the same time there has been growing consolidation with the games industry, as the videogame market has become more saturated. This leads to fewer games having the opportunity to be made and be profitable. A huge proportion of the money is made in mobile games, a lot of the models are exploitative of 5% of the player base (the whales) in arguably a form of gambling addiction. There's an incentive to make huge, evergreen games that keep raking in the money and the player base into fewer hands. However, the games we enjoy tend to be of the old flat upfront price, singleplayer experience which are much less in fashion. So to scoop up our interest, there is then a huge pressure to be a heavy hitter (like Half Life 3 or GTA 6 or Elderscrolls 6 or whatever highly anticipated sequel). This actually leads to these few games getting bigger and more unwieldy as they have to surpass their predecessors. Hence sheer scale and scope far exceeding what is reasonable of 'a game'. To the question of whether they're on the decline, it really depends if people become more interested, as I am, in playing shorter 6-8 hour experiences and more of them. I think a lot of us have reached oversaturation with games (see everyone's steam library) and simply there being too much choice and difficulty in determining quality (youtubers don't tend to play new games as much either). These customer, player, reviewer, let's player, developer trends often feed on themselves. So I really don't know if games will stop being so big. I think there will need to be a few more high profile failures and a consensus that we value ownership of a gameplayer experience that we can treasure over a temporary fixation on whatever multiplayer live service title is flavour of the month. But that will require a massive reset in the videogame market (think crash of 1983).

[@TheOJDrinker]

The "goof-off" in the original Dragon Warrior 3 can go straight to being a Sage without the special book. (which is at lvl 20, sage has both pilgrim and wizard spells)

[@RedSntDK]

"Man of Medan almost sunk the squad" that's probably the first time that sentence has ever been said.

[@stefanocasella7076]

Excellent vibes to you all from Rome. Now excuse me, I gotta go discuss paladin builds with the pope...

[@TryConservatism]

Dodger is the most adorable human being to ever live. That is all.

[@nought3060]

Dodger, they can be jolly and happy on their own dime.

[@SerotoninCrunch]

Yo this intro is too sick

[@LadyUsakoB]

Yo its the weekend!

[@alagon2047]

Monday shall be good

[@Theorak]

My Halloween movie is a series, Over the Garden Wall. My Christmas movie is The Hogfather :D. Would recommend Klaus as well though.

[@littlemissevel3607]

1. Over the Garden wall is GREAT. i'm not normally one for peer pressure but everyone should watch it! And if you don't like it you don't have a soul 🤷‍♀? It's dark creepy, cute, funny, whimsical... strange. It has Tim Curry in one episode and Christopher Lloyd in several! as well as others. The backgrounds are beautiful works of art. It definitely has an autumn, orange leaves and pumpkins, americana folk tales vibe. 2. Terrible/Great Film Rec? Virtual Sexuality (1999) 5.1 imdb. SOO 90's! Teen Rom-Com, Drama, Sci-Fi. Starring Laura Fraser & Rupert Penry-Jones. This girl goes to a techology fair, uses a machine to make her 'perfect man' and things go ...awry

[@SilentOcalypz]

If you think the Dragon Quest 3 remake is good, the Star Ocean 2nd Story Remake is great as well.

[@maryanneDB]

45:16 Best game within a game: Gwent!!

[@jupiterjazz9421]

Nightmare before Christmas people are the Live Laugh Love people on a different spectrum.

[@misskaydie]

TNBC is just LLL for emos

[@NickLavic]

1:15:26 I thought it was Watson Kitty at first, but then I noticed it was too big and fluffy. Hello Gus.

[@davidpowers746]

"Get out of the Hinterlands!" Never played a Dragon Age game but I remember you guys talking about that.

[@Cardboard_Spaceship]

Oh please Jesse and Dodger play The Case of the Golden Idol!!!