Are we WRONG about this game? Final Fantasy 16 Ending Reaction/breakdown SPOILERS and review.

[@grenalden]

The thing about Dion that I loved was that he was a fully fleshed out character, strong and awesome. Who just happened to be gay. The fact that he was gay was just PART of his character, it wasn’t his ENTIRE character which happens too often.

[@throwmeaname]

Dion is my fave character out of all the cast!

[@mospii]

He's my favorite too. Dragoons are so damn cool 😂

[@elchit6635]

It still baffles me that people say it doesn’t feel like final fantasy when I just watched ifrit and phoenix jump onto bahamuts back flying towards a crystal called origin to fight a god. Not to mention that after all the crystals are destroyed is the god released. Quite literally the most ff1-5 story I’ve ever seen hahahahaha

[@8bitdee]

People say it’s not FF because of the gameplay NOT the story. It is missing the key elements that make up the fabric of what one considers a Final Fantasy game; a controllable party, elemental magic that actually matters, interesting towns, battles that require more strategy than just “dodge and attack, dodge and attack, dodge and attack”, cool limit breaks that turn the tide of battle and not just God of War’s Spartan Rage, magic and abilities that are used by MP and not cooldowns like some dumb mobile game, etc etc. There is so much about this game that feels like a spinoff but was eventually turned into FF16 at some point development , similar to how FF15 at first started as FFversus13, that does not feel like a mainline Final Fantasy. Just look at Rebirth. Now THAT is a Final Fantasy game through and through. This is just an action game with FF summons and Chocobos, and PS2 era QuickTime events.

[@GodOfAI_]

We are not wrong about this game, it has the best ending in the history of gaming and it deserves all your 70$. Well done square enix

[@billionaeris1183]

Are you mad? The ending was predictable and boring, another protagonist dies, how many times we seen this? Getting old now, not all endings need to be sad, that is what annoys me about recent FF games, everyone dies at the end lol it's like what's the point in being a hero when the hero just dies all the time? Where are the happy endings? Joshua and Clive should both have survived and lived happily ever after, but no can't have that for some reason, another thing that annoyed me about this game was them killing Cid off so early on, the best character in the game and they kill him off and replace him with Mid his daughter a much less interesting version lol dumb move by SE. The game as a whole was just lackluster, sure it was visually stunning and the graphics were great etc but storywise was nothing special, just a luciferian plot about free will and killing God, had to put a child sacrifice in the prologue too, then make God look evil and have us kill him, making Clive aka Lucifer seem like a good guy, i mean the game is full of it. I'm not religious but i am against the Luciferian, Aliistair Crowley "Do what thou will" way of life and this game is glorifying it. Also having us kill Chocobos was sacrilege, wt were SE thinking? The main quests were full of filler the game was way overbloated than it needed to be having us do main quests that felt like side quests man that sucked. Also there was nothing to do in this world aside from side quests and hunts, just boring. Too much boring uninteresting dialogue too, having us do side missions for characters no one gives a *** about. Not a masterpiece by any stretch, an easy 7 out of 10 tbh. I have to say unpopular opinion maybe but i enjoyed FFXV a whole lot more despite that game having issues, it was just an overall more enjoyable experience.

[@happyteedz4626]

@@billionaeris1183He’s not dead. Lol. You obviously didn’t play the game.

[@billionaeris1183]

@@happyteedz4626 How does that make sense? And he's petrifying on the beach so he will die, and the ending is open to interpretation the way i see it is he dies, it's possible that Joshua survives, but again possible he didn't and Dion is definitely dead, the only survivors were Jill and Torgal and all those other Hideaway characters but they were uninteresting and boring so didn't care that they survived. Also, Shouldn't have killed Cid he was the most interesing character in the game or if they were to kill him not so early on, for the rest of the game we were left with boring characters and there were far too many characters in this game that i did not care about, should have just focused on the main party. Another dumb thing was making us go back to the hideaway after every big fight, like how is that logical? Would have taken them days or weeks just to traverse back to the Hideaway everytime, all while the Blight is consuming the world at a rapid pace, SE should have given us an airship Hub that flew us to places through fast travel and you would have it float above whatever place you were at on the World map, more logical and makes sense, instead of saving it for a Mid sidequest about not wanting people to have an airship because they would use it for destruction nonsense. Also too many main quests in this game serving as sidequests go fetch this go fetch that, like f off and do it yourself, no mini games in this game, no activities too many side quests too much boring dialogue, i could go on. Didn't get this nonsense with classic FF games just story from start to fin no filler rubbish no mundane sidequests and they still hold up better than newer FF games.

[@GrimJackal]

The best ending in the HISTORY OF GAMES? Yikes.

[@vedajanitra8199]

i don’t even get my money’s worth on this game. Should’ve bought the disc instead of digital so i could sell it used..

[@tidusdream12]

Harpocrotes also stated Clive was very eloquent and should write his tales. The fact he loved plays as a child with uncle Rosfield lends credence. Clive is the narrator. Clive is Alive

[@burdenedsappo]

I mean his name itself should be a hint 😆 Clive’s a(c)live!

[@bogwitch]

Clive also narrates the first lines of the game like he is reading from a text. The whole game is that chronicle of their deeds.

[@elchit6635]

My personal take is that Clive survives and the curse ceases to spread due to the destruction of the crystals influence. He heals Joshua so that his body can rest untainted by ultima and magicks touch. Clive goes on to take up Joshua’s mantle when writing the book and even puts the hideaway symbol on the book that I believe only becomes their symbol post cids death. The entire events of the game was the older brother reading Clive’s book and that’s why the game starts with Clive’s prologue and ends with this that is the end of our journey. Clive says early on he should try and save Joshua from himself which is tragically what takes place as Joshua protects Clive by absorbing a part of ultima at orriflamme

[@ubuu7]

Zettaflare cope. Clive dead and Josh lived.

[@elchit6635]

@@ubuu7 I mean it’s left open so to each their own haha! Still a beautiful ending of it’s that way round

[@happyteedz4626]

@@ubuu7 Personally i don’t see how Josh would’ve lived. Not even Ultima had the power to resurrect life. Which was why he needed vessels.

[@ubuu7]

@@happyteedz4626 Ultima was weak, Clive had his powers plus all eikons with boosted Phoenix plus the aether of the world

[@admiralalbion2279]

@@ubuu7even so origin broke apart and fell into the ocean, plus Joshua was unconscious if he was brought back he would’ve died by drowning so there’s no way he could’ve wrote the book

[@AB-cr1cu]

the post credit scene "the book by Joshua..." and the two children who looks like Clive and Joshua make you think at first that Joshua survived and wrote the book about his brother... BUT WHAT I THINK IS Joshua who wrote the book is Clive/Jill son and the two kids are his (clive/Jill grandchildren) let me explain : 1.only Clive know how his story ended and he the one narrator the story from beginning till the end... 2.the writers made "theme of the game" that Clive and Jill will always come back to each other again and again... 3. the writers choose the end scene before the credit to be Jill crying all night then sunrise and she smille and then Clive say "tus are journey end", remind me of Jill line in the flower quest "no matter how dark the night dawn will always come and that you will always come for me Clive".., 4. before the last mission Clive promise Jill "i will come back" and say "i love you" in front everybody... 5.put all the above with what i understood of Clive flashback memory when Joshua died "young Clive holding hand of baby Joshua" and then base on his decision to end all magic that he come to term that Joshua is dead... 6.the last line after the post credit "but where one journey ends...". it's very clear that there will be DLC maybe with leviathan...

[@Pizzadelivery24]

I normally don’t get emotional when I play video games but the end of this game Absolutely torn me apart. I started to become emotional when Clive said goodbye to Jill and it was all downhill from there. When I first experienced the main ending, I thought I was seeing Clive die as I looked into it further I see maybe he lived. At first I felt robbed. I felt like this game made me feel something powerful (similar to Crisis Core and FFXIV) and I didn’t want them to take it away by making him live. Because if he lives, there’s really no emotional payoff you don’t get to see him reunite with Jill. I felt like my tears, my emotions that I had over Clive dying was for nothing, because there may be a greater chance that he survived, But as I gave it more time and I’ll let it sink in more and more, I see that it wasn’t for nothing and that they’re going for a emotional response. I think it’s hard to watch that scene and not feel sad. I still have trouble coming to terms with the ending and just the general not knowing I think it’s because I felt so connected to this cast.

[@SW-rb5ry]

The fact that Harpocrates says Clive AND Joshua must finish their stories so that Joshua can become a historian is kind of a no brainer to me that they both live. Joshua wrote it, Clive told the story. Even the game begins with a quote from Moss the Chronicler, which you find out from Harpocrates that only Joshua had the last copy of. I think you would have to jump more hurdles to say that Joshua died. If we assume Clive wrote the book but penned it in his brother’s name, it kind of… doesn’t make any sense. If he wanted to honor his dead brother, why did he leave out his brother’s life so much? Why did he honor his dead brother by writing a book about himself, where Joshua who is supposedly the author dies at the end? Wouldn’t that defeat the whole purpose of penning the book under his name if he’s a character that dies in the book? Nobody has really given me a good explanation for this. If anything the book is honoring Clive’s legacy and how he saved the world from magic. For me the purpose of the book is abundantly clear. It was never to honor Joshua but to tell Clive’s story for future generations to remember. Because the focus is on Clive I’m much more inclined to believe Joshua lived and chronicled everything because otherwise you would have to assume all those details about Joshua as a writer and historian were red herrings. The theme of the game is that the brothers survive. In the prologue, the people of Valisthea thought the Rosfield brothers died after the fall of Phoenix Gate… except they didn’t. They miraculously survived. Similar to how we didn’t actually see Joshua survive on screen in the prologue, he still survived somehow. I think this is basically repeating that. If both survive, it checks out with the title of the book, the narration, and Joshua as the author. Everything falls into place.

[@factorywatch]

The best ending analysis by far on YT! Didn’t know your channel, now I’m a subscriber. I thought the ending was beautiful in its own way, and a good closure to the story although I wished to see Clive and Jill together. I also said in another reply, but will repeat here: I definitely don’t see SE, YoshiP or other authors/devs to touch on what happens to the main characters lives after the game. This is something I think will never get clarification, because it’s meant to be this way. This is ambiguity done well. If you look into it, there are a lot of hints for Clive (and Joshua) to be either alive or dead, so the authors left the interpretation totally for ourselves. At first I didn’t like it, but after some time now this approach has grown on me and made the ending even better than before. Thanks SE, Yoshi and everyone who made this game a reality, it’s on my best games of all time list for sure (also the first FF I managed to beat, being a gamer since NES days 🙂). PS I’ve thought of Schrodingers cat concept for the ending before meeting this channel, and was surprised to see the name of it hehe.

[@jlyt18]

Side quest + post credits 100% allude to Clive returning. What i hope they do is make the unlockable ending a DLC dependent on having competed the side quests that allude to clive writing the book. More games should do this so that the community has time to discuss, theory craft, and etc. and feel rewarded for the extra information they get for doing the side quests. and they after come time they get their payoff.

[@jlyt18]

My personal theory is that he uses the aether to cast a world wide spell like Ultima planned but his spell was to remove magic and the memory of it from humanity. The quest with Vivian where they reveal the bearers used to be respected and powerful. History was rewritten to change the truth which Vivian explains is malleable based on everyone collectively believing something. I think Clives final act to stop and reverse the blight is not only removing magic but making everyone believe it didnt exist, thus rewritting the truth, the Final Fantasy. This is why the mother in the post credits reacts to the concept of magic and Eikons as a perposterous fairytale, because that is the new truth Clive created so that humanity may learn to survive and prosper as the world we know IRL has while the actual truth and history of the matter, Clives story, merely lives on in his book.

[@factorywatch]

If Square releases a DLC it definitely won’t be continuing the story. They made the ending like this for a reason. They are casting doubt in people’s heads intentionally, and I think it’s going to stay that way (we interpret if he lives or dies) for ourselves. It probably will touch on Leviathans lore.

[@Nexuish]

What’s interesting, the ending is static, but the context of it changes depending on how much knowledge you have going into it. Personally, I very much believe Clive somehow lived ( possibly explained via DLC ) and we have an FFT style ending where the “official” record is Clive died, but the truth is he lived and faded into obscurity with Jill That Ultimania will be juicy

[@averageatbestva]

That’s one of the beauties of this game! My personal interpretation, especially after doing the side quest where Clive and Tomes discuss Clive writing a book after all is said and done, is that Joshua did die and Clive survived but Clive wrote the book using Joshua’s name so his brothers memory is preserved and given it wouldn’t be the first time Clive adopted a moniker.

[@Nexuish]

@@averageatbestva he also makes Joshua a historian, in a way, by doing that. Similar to how the fruit tree was named after the woman who cultivated it despite someone else finishing her work, a way to keep someone’s memory alive.

[@averageatbestva]

@@Nexuish bingo! The legacy lives on in a way, the same way Cid’s legacy lived on through Clive, the fruit tree keeping Martelle’s legacy alive and the book keeping Joshua’s legacy alive.

[@Pizzadelivery24]

The only problem I have with the side quest is in the beginning they suck in my opinion so the game kinda teaches you the side quest aren’t that important but then they throw that hidden stuff in there and it can change the context of the ending so I’m really conflicted about whether that stuff should be a sidequest, or a main quest.

[@deyon100]

All the side quests had some story payoff even the soup one

[@joshuacheong5678]

It is interesting to note that the same book "Final Fantasy" was used to narrate the FF16's "Ambition" trailer. If Vivian Ninetails is the narrator of the trailer and the whole narration scene is canon to the story, then the book could have been written and published sometime after the events of Origin, which could explain how Vivian have access to the book.

[@Artoosa]

Damn you deserve more eyes on this, amazing video, Seal. I tried to tune into some of this live, but glad you uploaded a concise version.

[@aquatrez]

Probably the best take and analysis of FFXVI's story I've found online. Couldn't stop nodding my head. Thanks for this!

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

Thank you so much!

[@vexhardt211]

I really loved this game. My only real disappointments lie with the villains all being mostly serviceable and Jill and Torgal should have been with us for the final showdown, the two characters we were with the longest. If they were to do DLC I’m really not sure how it could take place after the ending, it seems pretty obvious that magic is gone from the world and I’ve no idea how they would handle combat/spectacle without it. I’d prefer a “definitive” edition with what seems like clearly cut content restored, there is a Leviathan shaped hole before going back to Ash and I really believe there was supposed to be an airship and final dungeon to go take on Ultima, but it got cut and that’s why Bahamut is only a two-seater.

[@burdenedsappo]

Been waiting for a video like this! Great dissection! Finally seeing someone that paid attention for all the amounting evidence that says Clive’s alive!

[@utsrion]

I just finished the game a couple day ago, and found you review. Thank you very much, I really like your analysis, it's really eye-opening to me. I admitted that I was a bit in emotional wrack after I saw the ending, but now I feel more hope. I really want them to do DLC that expand the main story or have Jill as a playable character, Cid back story. They can even do XVI part 2 if they can come up with the story about the continent outside of Valisthea, and make it as good as FF16 story. I'm still in love with the character and world.

[@Remi_Edits]

This game broke me so much, the ending had me in tears, Torgal howling just hit me hard. Felt so robbed, I was hoping for a happy ending. The more I looked back at the end scene and discussed with others, the more I feel like Clive did survive, but my main question now is if the game were to continue, how do you see it playing out? Like where can the story go from here?

[@Pizzadelivery24]

I think it’s a possibility they leave the ending as is and dlc is CID’s backstory.

[@Angelofterra]

One more possibility is that when Clive destroys the final crystal he uses a flame attack, possibly a flames of rebirth combined with ultima's power could explain a scenario in which joshua and maybe even dion continue on after the main game.

[@nanashi-gaming]

Thanks for this man video man. Excellent breakdown I needed. I do hope Clive survived, but also don't mind how they don't explicitly tell you that. I feel like it made the game narrative more... true to itself, so to speak. Joshua surviving makes a bit more sense to me, but hopefully we'll have our DLC to answer some of those questions.

[@labibzahid3013]

Great breakdown! Loved the game for the most part and the ending im having mixed feelings. The last few side quests are basically begging for Clive to comeback especially Jiil’s and throughout the game ppl telling him to save himself. And then all of a sudden, an ambiguous ending. I believe Clive lives and Joshua died. 8.8-9/10 game for me! EPIC

[@REVOLVERE]

Just beat the game last night. Dion was by far my most favorite character in the game. That whole sequence with him and Bahamut was the highlight of the entire game IMO. I do wish we were able to see more of Jill and the northern territories. Barnabas definitely needed some more time on the screen.

[@Djroshi01]

Barnabas cutting the sea into two will forever be one of my favorite scenes. Just the raw power exuded from that alone cemented his place in my heart. It would be so cool to get more content of him for sure. Maybe see when he turned Ash Akashic. Or see how he met Origins. I’m so down for a short prequel lol

[@jdzspace33]

There are secret dungeons. That's how you get the last of the missives in Clive's room.

[@chrisdillon8376]

I've been excited to finish this game to finally watch this video and see you put the pieces together. Thank you.

[@mikequattrochi2365]

Great video ! Got choked up at the end. It's bittersweet to finish such a great game, and hopefully your DLC ideas happen. I'm left with a yearning for more. Maybe closure ? Keep up the great analysis :)

[@virys.5887]

I was Surfing through the internet, not knowing what I was searching for in my state of Copium…I found this video and I loved the interpretation of the ending! You only see half assed interpretations of what is shown on the surface elswhere! Really loved your conclusion! This is worth my sub! I agree with everything!

[@grenalden]

Loved this game. Wasn’t sure about the ending at first but after I had time to mull it over, I really like that it’s left up to interpretation. Mine is that Joshua did survive and he is the true author of the book at the end.

[@Rhomagus]

Speaking of Joshua / Jesus allusions, narratively there's a gap of 13 years during Joshua's "pilgrimage".

[@Omnicloudx13]

I love your analysis of any game you review or breakdown, you are so insightful and always make me think about the game in a new way. I can't wait for FF7 Rebirth and the videos you'll do for it as well.

[@PetarBladeStrok]

Stunning breakdown Clarke. Stunning! *slow clap*

[@id1550]

This is an absolutely fantastic video

[@mlpichardo1]

There's a lot going with the word Logos for sure. Jesus is also called the logos in the book of John. I think Clive is an archetype of Jesus. Clive is also 33 like Jesus. Ultima is more like the devil than God if anything. Clive defeats the "devil" and his power over death (magic). Very cool, me likes

[@bossmannn3415]

For me the ending worked but for a lot of people the game peaks at bahamut the game at the last 3rd has a drab drepressing tone and definitely feels way less climactic then bahamuts section. But for me it definitely feels like when I was in the waloed section it slowed down a lot until you got to the big moments. Imo the best parts we’re definitely 2.Titan 1.Bahamut in both of those arcs you see Hugo go through pretty much everything aswell as Dion and the fights have really hype buildup that gets delivered in there 40 minute boss fights

[@tjongdavid1921]

After watching Preach's vods, personally the game is less interesting after the confrontation with Anabella. I think the plot would be a lot better if Olivier turn out to be a 2nd mythos, considering he bears both Bahamut's and Phoenix' blessing, and Ultima possesses him. Of course Anabella did not kill herself but instead ran with Olivier for the final confrontation where we kill both (tho I'm unsure how she will die. I want Clive to kill her but he's too good of a guy to do that. Come to think of it, why don't he want revenge against the instigator of Phoenix Gate? Doesn't make sense to me)

[@bossmannn3415]

@@tjongdavid1921 if Olivier was an actual villain and he would’ve been super compelling if he was older and witty because what this doesn’t have is the standout main villain even tho all the other main villains are great. Especially since having the connection of being the 3rd brother and most of the kingdoms fall was also Annabelle’s fault

[@tjongdavid1921]

@@bossmannn3415 I'd love it if Olivier survived Bahamut and brands Dion as traitor as his first command as emperor. Then the 2nd half of the game we see him being very smart and cunning and is able to seize power over Storm. Dion being a traitor but being chivalrous would make him a conflicting persona when he finally returns to Sanbreque because the imperial forces and the people would know that he's a good person, but some other would feel betrayed because of lost loved one in his hand. Now since Barnabas is under Ultima already, he'd become Olivier's general or something. This way we still got both the political story and the Ultima story line. With what we got now, the political nature is being left behind

[@robitussinbrohan718]

To be honest, I’m not a huge fan of ambiguous endings. I want confirmation about Clive as well as Joshua’s fate. I’m convinced that Dion is dead. Hopefully the Ultimania sheds some light on this. Ending aside, I loved everything else. The combat, albeit somewhat easy, was pretty fun. I did die a few times so I’m not too dissatisfied like I was with 15. Final fantasy mode was a moderate challenge too, but not as hard as 7r on hard. I love dark souls, so that’s probably why I love a good challenge. I do wish they included iconic superbosses like Gilgamesh, or Omega. Or maybe a secret boss fight against Leviathan or the dominant. A human boss fight like Weiss would be perfect for this type of game. Hopefully the dlc will include all of this, and maybe clarification for the ending. But I know fans will feel cheated because they had to pay extra to get that closure. So I highly doubt we will get that ending.

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

I COMPLETELY agree that the lack of Superbosses, Secrets or even a hidden dungeon was one of the biggest failings of the game. With a game that took so much from FF V, not having Gilgamesh felt insane tbh.

[@jengorman2246]

Totally makes sense if there's DLC to leave it this way - but the fact it's unconfirmed is just making the whole thing not settle well.

[@Kaptime]

I enjoyed the game a lot, it was a really fun time. I felt that Jill shouldn't have given up her Eikon to Clive. Joshua didn't (until he had to vs Ultima), I felt she got robbed of the final confrontation because of this, I can't understand why Torgal wasn't there too... Surely Jill could've given a blessing to Clive instead... Everything else about the game was very enjoyable to me though so I don't really have any complaints apart from that. I would like more of Dion too if there is to be a DLC, although perhaps he has petrified too much after the final clash. Dion's redemption arc felt like it was just starting here and could be a whole story in itself. I get that the devs fully focused on Clive though, that was the plan all along, but I really liked a lot of the supporting cast. The epic scope of the showdowns in 16 means there is no limit really as far as what a DLC could contain, I mean how can we escalate from fighting an Alien God... This year has been wild for Final Fantasy though, there has not been a better time to be a Final Fantasy fan in recent memory. FF7R2 is now on the horizon (Gamescom and TGS coming soon) and we're finally getting that ~5 hour Sleepezi cinematic experience to start the hype train.

[@WonOneWun]

Jill was forced to use her Eikon to murder people against her will. I don't think she really liked it.

[@bossmannn3415]

My only personal problem in this game was that during the marketing they marketing all the eikons in the game and I kinda was expecting to fight ramuh and shiva as eikons and I think there were parts in the story they could’ve had them. Also I feel that they could’ve filled out the villian roster better if we got someone more interesting then the ironblood chancellor we got for that faction. I thought he was kinda filler but serves his purpose

[@wooley2629]

I was expecting some kind of Leviathan reveal but he simply wasn't in the game. Was an odd choice.

[@bossmannn3415]

@@wooley2629 I think leviathan was a budget problem if I had to guess because he is mentioned in the game just as old history in a line of dialogue

[@KyngD469]

Gurren Lagann vibes from Ultima being the Antispiral. Especially with how he is defeated wit ha punch and a whole in his chest. And then he also says a few words before fading away. (Though the antispiral exploded)

[@Jon0001]

For me the book is proof that clive is alive at least and at best both him and Joshua lived. Simply put Clive needs to be alive to write the last part of the book since he was the only one present and no one else heard the exchange between him and Ultima. Clive probably took Joshua's name in order to publish the book, it having the hideaway symbol also seems a big tell. Officially speaking Clive died at phoenix gate then Cid the outlaw showed up destroyed the mother crystals, freed the bearers, and died killing the being enslaving them all. Joshua wrote the book then faded away. After all that I imagine Clive and Jill go to the other continent since Jill wanted to see the rest of the world. All and all I love the game and find the ending very similar to ff7og which left lots of speculation

[@SW-rb5ry]

The hideaway symbol on the book as well as the narration point to them both living. The game starts with a quote from Moss the Chronicler which only Joshua had a copy of. Joshua is the writer, Clive is the narrator. Clive did not write it in honor of his brother because it wouldn’t make sense to honor your brother by writing a book about yourself where your brother who you penned as the author dies at the end. Nobody has been able to explain that to me. If he wanted his brother to be remembered he could have added more things about Joshua’s life but he never did, which only leads me to believe the book was not made in honor Joshua but in honor of Clive’s story (who lived to tell the tale). And that only makes sense to me when Joshua is the author and has been implied to be a historian and writer on multiple conversations with Harpocrates. This is the only thing that makes sense to me.

[@Jon0001]

@@SW-rb5ry the book does need both brothers to be alive for it to be written assuming you believe the book is the entire game or most of it. That post was one of my earlier interpretations. All and all the contents of the books is the linchpin of the idea that the brothers survived.

[@deangraves7462]

I don't think Joshua survived. Not even the Phoenix can revived the dead. Clive can heal the body but that doesn't mean he can bring Joshua back from the dead. I don't even think Ultima has that power which is why he is trying to perform the ultimate spell to remake the universe. Joshua has become a good historian but Clive is the storyteller of the two. Clive also is known to read stories, and to act. Clive only became a Shield because of Joshua's burden. And it is the matter of the side quest regarding history and rather it should be remember. I think the turning point for Joshua was after the Crystal Dominion. Joshua takes on the roll of a shield during the final Acts. Joshua acts to save Clive from his worse impulses. Clive listens to others, and that something Joshua doesn't really do. It is actually a running thing with Joshua not listening to folks. Joshua isn't a people person that comes through especially in the last Act as is he is only use to dealing with servants. It is Clive that actually takes an interest in the wellbeing of the Joshua cult. In a lot of ways Barnabas is the dark reflection of Joshua. Also Joshua frees Clive from his duty of being his Shield at the end. A well constructed story should have the reader/consumer figure out the twist at the same time as the protagonist.

[@kbkb4284]

I do think throughout the story Joshua felt more like a shield for Clive and to an extent Valisthea whereas Clive felt more like a sword/spear to forge the future.

[@SW-rb5ry]

And Clive can also free his duty of first shield by saving his brother. The book being penned in his name doesn’t make sense to me. He wanted to honor his brother by making a book about himself? Why did he not include details about Joshua’s life? He’s basically a mystery. Or is it more likely that they both lived and Joshua wanted to write Clive’s story, hence why Clive is narrating and why Joshua may have chosen to not include parts of his own life. The game starts off with a quote from moss the chronicler, which importantly was from a book only Joshua had.

[@deangraves7462]

@@SW-rb5ry A book Clive would also have access to as part of Joshua's collection. So do you assume that Clive wouldn't take up Joshua's role as a historian. It is clearly established that death is permanent and not even Ultima could bring back the dead. It is this fact that motivates Ultima to cast the 1000 year spell.

[@xanapheaqi]

I was very sad, yes, but didn't cry at the ending like everyone is... the past few mainline FF protagonists have all had the same ending so far, so it was kinda expected 😕 I dunno... maybe I just wanted a happy ending again for FF, where the protagonist didn't have to die

[@jdzspace33]

I liked the ending, but i couldn't put it above FFX overall, just because decades later i still remember elements. I can't say that about IX, XII, XIII or XV. VIII and VI is my gold standard, and I REALLY wanted this game to be on that level. But towards the end, i don't know, it just lost something. It wasn't bad by any measure, just not as enthralling as the first 3/4 of the game

[@rtql8d]

As much I want Clive to have survived, he seemed resigned to his fate at the end. In my mind, he made the ultimate sacrifice. Also, animals don’t lie, and Torgal’s reaction makes me think Clive really is gone. As for Joshua though, I think it’s more ambigious. I would like to think Joshua does become the historian that Harpocrates envisions him to be. Maybe Naoki Yoshida will have a concrete answer in the future.

[@Grizzle2894]

I see where you're coming from but consider that Torgal didn't react the same when Cid was dying but it was clear that Torgal was sad about that death. Also Torgal is supposed to be a Frost Wolf. Wolves howl as a form of communication to help others find their way back to the pack. I'm of the mind, that Clive did survive and would "eventually" make it back. But anything is possible until/if they confirm.

[@Balto678]

You could have talked about this game for a whole extra hour in this video, and I'd still be watching and enjoying this. Loved the game. Love it that you did as well. "The most Final Fantasy to ever Final Fantasy," lol. Also, we had the same reaction to that part with Clive. "He said it! He said the thing!" lol Oh man, I was clapping during that scene. 😂

[@studioofshred1050]

I feel like a lot of details in the story that reviewers have seemed to take for granted as being clear and obvious, actually are up to interpretation. For instance, I think Benedikta was alive after her showdown with Clive/Ifrit. I think when Cid left her body, she was still alive and it was Barnabas who used Odin to sever her head and actually kill her. Also, the Fallen civilization that precedes modern-day Valesthia's twin realms, those were the humans originally created by Ultima, hence why they have Idol statues of him around their city. I think the city inside Origin was made by the Fallen society, and when Ultima had to regain control over Valesthia, they took the city from their creations.

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

Origin was in fact made by the ultima collective. It shows that in the final "hidden truths" entries (if you are missing some entries, talk to oscar next to clives quarters). The Fallen Civilization did have a splinter between people that worshipped ultima and rebelled against him... The Worshippers...Children of Dzemekys... lead to the rise of Barnabas, whose mother was a member. The "hole" in Dhalmek next to Tabor (Dzemekys falls) was once home to one of the mother crystals, the fallen used Magitek to attempt to raid the crystal and Ultima appeared to destroy it as "punishment" and to quell the rebellion. The incident caused the fall of their society and two factions survived, one group of survivors went to a "far away continent" (not on the twins). The remaining society slowly built up under the manipulations of Ultima and the children of Dzemekys.

[@studioofshred1050]

@@schrodingersbabyseal thanks so much fam! that fills in a lot of history

[@hoz135]

Let Clive rest with his ultimate sacrifice! I wanted him to live just as much as the next person but that curse was spreading faster than warm butter. He achieved his and Cid's goal, died on his own terms.

[@bossmannn3415]

I agree with you though the game’s storytelling is really good and thought out especially since ff10

[@m.j.gallagher6756]

I have been looking forward to watching this so much.

[@HassanNur]

Great vid man! I Believe they died because it's a great sacrifice to remove all the problems of that world as Clive said before his final casting. With Jill she knows he brought a new dawn for everyone that's why she sighs wishing he was there to see it ( if he was alive she would be fully smiling and rush off) Metia died and that meant her wish has no chance makes sense for the breakdown of her and Torgal. I know its an open ending and I hoped he lived as well as Josh but I think the tone of the game mans death. The hideaway people wrote the book for sure Jote covering Joshua details and the others filling in too. The final side missions were red herrings in my mind & DLC will be Leviathan the lost.

[@slugshotgun]

They really should've given this game multiple endings, considering that they weren't planning on giving it sequels.

[@MistaDvN]

Loved this game.. My goty... Spectacular rollercoaster ride. Wanna play it for the first time again 😊

[@lukedodson3441]

I was hoping to see Great Greagors Gash

[@hayabusa09]

Yes, Clive is just taking a nap on the beach. 🤣

[@XxMazziexX]

I still don't know how to feel about this ending. I *loved* so much of this game. The characters are some of the best in any game i think, they've done so well with them but i need more lol. And im so mad (if) clive broke his promises to Jill. I wanted to see them reuinte and see how they would cope with the new world order. Its funny though, you dont get much more in the OG 7 ending, its only from later compilation games/media we know anything immediately past crater/holy etc, and that didnt feel as... disappointing 😅

[@TheFlyingBookworm]

I think the fact that there was post game content made VII feel like you were still alive. You didn't have to start a new game to play more.

[@TheFlyingBookworm]

Also, just wanted to state that I'm with you feeling disappointed by the ending. I don't want a head canon ending, I want closure.

[@justinhumphrey4177]

this game is a masterpiece in my mind. i think ff7 and ff7 remake topple it but outside of that i agree that its a top 3 ff. thanks for the video bby seal

[@phongnguyen-hn2sl]

Clive is not suppose to kill Ultima. Because if Clive kill Ultima and absorb Ultima spirit, Clive will become the next Ultima. Just like Jecht became the next Sin after killing the previous Sin. Killing Ultima will not end the cycle, it just renew it. This raises the one million dollars question "how do we end the Cycle"?

[@darkscoutergamer6168]

W video 💙🔥🙏🏻 and I can understand that yeah

[@morriganrenfield8240]

Yep, even with some quibbles this is easily the strongest final fantasy in decades, and imo second strongest game allover for square after the ps1 era. (Nier automata still takes the crown :P)

[@barryslieker1789]

I just hope for Clive Rosfield will going to Dissidia Final Fantasy for PS5.

[@liamphilp2417]

I think clive and dion are dead But joshua survived or rather was resurrected And i belive the dlc will be on the fallen centric island that is probably protected by leviathian who will persist due to being a beast rather than an eikon

[@liamphilp2417]

Forgot to say I think the dlc will be Joshua playable with jote and torgal as companions

[@liamphilp2417]

And I think leviathan will serve as a superboss that led to fall of the fallen That's my one missing piece, no standout superboss.

[@liamphilp2417]

I also think the great greagor was Ultima

[@liamphilp2417]

Last thing, couldn't help but see a PS5 Zidane everytime Benedikta was on screen 😂

[@e0jay]

This is the first FF game I ever finished. I tried FFXV and only got about halfway because it became a burden for me, but I did finish the pocket version, but don't consider that a FF game because it's more of a mobile game. Anyway, I connected to the main characters on a deeper level than I did with Noctis. However, I wish I saw more of Dion. I feel he is a very complex person, but didn't have enough time to explore his character. In regards to Clive and Jill's romance, I've seen a lot of contension regarding how it was addressed. To me, it was perfect. My husband and I are not romantic in the least, but there are moments in which we share intimacy, in a similar way Clive and Jill do. They're a couple with plenty of shit to do and work to be done; they ain't got no time to be embracing 24/7. I also love the fact that Clive doesn't tone down Jill's presence and her strength. He doesn't treat her as a damsel in distress in constant need to be protected. In battle, they are equal, and even when their relationship is established, their dynamic is the same. In terms of Clive and Joshua's relationship, I absolutely loved it. The end scene when Joshua died had me in tears. As the eldest sister of 3, and with the acknowledgment that I wasn't the best sister as children, I feel Clive's regret and guilt very deeply. Siblings in games with a similar dynamic to Clive nd Joshua is always my weakness.

[@XChronicHash]

Who is “we”

[@lukedodson3441]

At what point?

[@ghostlyrazgriz5228]

Everything character wise. Shown in game. Also detailed in side quests. Suggests that Clive lived and wrote the book under Joshua's name. Im going with Clive living until we are shown otherwise

[@SW-rb5ry]

There is no logic behind writing it under Joshua’s name if the entire book is about Clive. Why would he honor his dead brother by writing a book about himself where Joshua dies at the end? Is no one questioning the logic behind this? Why did he not include parts of Joshua’s life when he easily could have? But instead his brother’s life is mostly a mystery or mentioned in passing conversations. It’s clear that Clive lived to tell his story and Joshua simply wrote it, given all the indications that Joshua was becoming a historian. This explains Clive’s narration as well as Joshua’s name.

[@peter123yeah6]

It's certainly not a bad ending, I've seen a lot worse in media. Tho a big issue is that the main villain is just... nothing. What got stuck in my head tho, and has really lowered my opinion on the ending however is well... it's basically the same ending as FF15. Prince (who's kingdom is destroyed) with a destiny uses the powers that comes with said destiny to sacrifice themselves to stop a force that is bringing the world to ruin.

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

Don't fully agree, Ultima was meant to be a reflection of the real world systems that keep the chains of oppression on us. As far as the parallels to FF 15, the story has parallels to ALL of the final fantasies, and I think it serves as a love-letter to identity of Final Fantasy while still delivering something considerably more cohesive and fleshed out than we've seen before. The ending was considerably more interesting to me than 15... particularly the post credits scene. I don't even really think they hit the same core elements... despite having the vague categorical similarities you mentioned.

[@peter123yeah6]

​@@schrodingersbabyseal Whenever a villain can be boiled down to a symbol of x or the physical representation/embodiment of y theme, that could not be less interesting to me. It's the same issue I had with the final villain of FF14 Endwalker who is just that but for nihilism. Having a villain be so abstract and intangible just makes it so hard to care about cause they are by definition one note. Like yeah the theme may be interesting... I guess but they themselves are not. You can have them have a theme and an interesting character, it's not mutually exclusive. As for your FF15 part, I guess it wouldn't bother me as much if it wasn't the last mainline game, like... really? As for it being more cohesive, is it? We learn that Ultima's power will kill Clive the same scene he uses it. Also, why is he Ultima's vessel? Like actually why him? Is there a reason that I missed? What made Clive Special? Also if he's meant to be his vessel, why would his power kill Clive? There may be answers to these, but either I missed them or they are in the lore stuff.

[@JurzGarz]

12:15 This isn’t accurate. Free will is not the original sin in the Bible; after all, if God did not desire humans to have free will, he would not have created them with. Original sin was when humans chose to use their free will for selfish purposes.

[@TheFlyingBookworm]

I really loved this game in the beginning, but I think it started off so much stronger than it ended. I'm glad I played it and mostly enjoyed the experience, but there were things that just didn't work for me and really inhibited my emotional connection to the end. I do think it's one of the best additions to the FF franchise in a long time. I think the dev team should be proud they created something that so many people enjoyed. Just wasn't a 100% for me.

[@noreehix5714]

I loved this game top 5 games of all time. My only gripes were lack of diversity and no secret dungeons or bosses. Otherwise 9 out of 10.

[@id1550]

A big problem I have is that I feel like the game would get more backlash if it had more diversity. Seeing black bearers would probably not sit well with some people. It’s sort of weird dilemma it puts the devs into. I do agree with you, but the backlash would probably be worse than it is now

[@BrainWasherAttendent]

what is the definition of diversity

[@SW-rb5ry]

It has brown people in it so don’t see the problem tbh. Finally some brown representation around here

[@msl11FF]

Absolutely adore this game but holy hell do I hate this ending. If it’s ever confirmed that Clive actually dies (I don’t think he did) it to me ruins and renders pointless a lot of the game and story 1.) all the side quests and world building with other characters, 2.) Clive never actually saves himself which everyone tried to build him to, 3.) Clive wanted to build a world where people could live on their own terms, this never happens and he just dies on his own terms like Cids dream, 4.) personally can we just give Jill ONE sliver of happiness? Her life is literal hell and she’s basically clinging on because of Clive, I mean her letter after her final side quest says that at much, way to just kill her off losing her other half, 5.) one of the main themes of the game is hope, and nothing screams hope like killing your protagonist after making a million promises all game to everyone he loves that they will all escape this fate and find a new better life.

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

I hear you, I think he chose to live as Joshua's shield at the end... it does feel a little unfair. But I think the ambiguity allowed for the viewer to cogitate the price of building a better world for everyone, and it worked for me thematically.

[@msl11FF]

@@schrodingersbabyseal Yoshi-P did an interview back in May stating they purposely left the door open (just a little) at the end without giving all the answers, and that reception could determine if they decide to show more in the future. Really interesting comment considering the ending and implies they could expand the ending/story, and personally I don’t know how you expand the story with Clive dead 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@TheFlyingBookworm]

I totally agree! I couldn't bring myself to do new game+ after that ending. No way I want to sit through trauma with these characters and know that I don't get to share in their joy. Pass. Killed the replayability for me.

[@strife9878]

I still think Ultima was lying about being their creator and a god . Feels more like he betrayed his own race and was vanished, coming back and seeing humas ruling over definitely angered him. They can still play with that and leviathan in a dlc or sequel.

[@KyngD469]

Well it's confirmed, imo. Joshua was reborn thanks to Clive and Clive is dead. I understand the cope that Clive is being alive. But as a BIG BROTHER. You sacrifice yourself for your younger sibling, if necessary. And The Loresman basically confirms it with Joshua becoming a historian.

[@OtkaMak]

Very interesting in depth look at the ending with several things i did not notice, for me main story end game felt boring (probably the reason why i missed some of the details) and the side quests felt far more interesting then all the main events after reaching Ash continent. And i am not sure is it lack of difficulty or why that i felt the final fights against Ultima were so dull that i was just waiting for his HP to hit zero while being bored, which is complete opposite of fighting sephiroth at the end of FF7R where final fight had adrenaline pumping as i could get killed any moment.

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

I do think the game is a bit easy. Sephiroth in hard mode was actually difficult in 7r... that did add some stakes... but it also had the benefit of being this big question mark on an unconcluded game... so it had the benefit of not needing to be the conclusion. For me the conclusion after the ultima fight was the scenes regarding Joshua and Clive... that was incredibly well done.

[@OtkaMak]

@@schrodingersbabyseal I do agree that the scenes after the Ultima fight were great, but that is more of epilogue to conclude things post final fight, for me from encountering Barnabas in the village with pregnant lady, to fight with Ultima felt boring. I think it did not help how Clive went from being completely hopeless in fighting Barnabas due to immense skill gap, to beating Barnabas using just will and determination (even if Barnabas was intending to let Clive win), it just felt like you overcome a massive skill gap with no training or development, would of made sense if he got crushed by Barnabas before Titan fight, so he would of had time to grow, but now he just had 2 fights in a row where he got completely trashed and then with no progression he wins the fight. All of that felt very immersion breaking for me, which made me lose interest in main story going forward, and the empty continent did not help break out of the surrealism. I do admit that my loss of interest in Ultima was partially my bias against having god as final fight as i am so bored of such trope, the role was really well played of Ultima being so disinterested in the on goings and just focusing on his objective, but that still left the setting of fighting a god at the end, that i have read in dozens of fantasy novels feels repetitive, and it dd not help that the fight could not top Bahamut fight.

[@ThatBeingCed]

The ending is frustrating for me. I really dislike it. The last 3rd of the game didn't work for me.

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

That's fair... what kind of issues did you have?

[@darkscoutergamer6168]

How come? If you don’t mind asking ofc,I wasn’t a big fan of última but the ending for me felt sad and I cried for it cause I think it was good but hearing others would be interesting

[@Crow-nc1oo]

​@@darkscoutergamer6168open endings are the worst we got no clarification if Clive lived or died.

[@darkscoutergamer6168]

@@Crow-nc1oo oh yeah I know but it’s definitely not bad unless they don’t follow up on it 😭💙 but I’m sure it will be explained later on in some form or fashion💙 Although the ending side quests does give a hint on it which I’m fine with

[@Crow-nc1oo]

@@darkscoutergamer6168 plus we got the book written by Joshue idk if Joshua survived and wrote it or Clive lived and used Joshua's name like he did with Cid.

[@aza1479]

New game plus combat is much better.

[@Djamp_htx]

They have overt romances and kissing in multiple final fantasy games wym? Lol

[@artable3]

Wtf I watched the whole thing and now I have the ending spoiled. Thanks man

[@grenalden]

It literally says “ending reaction”….

[@schrodingersbabyseal]

I even put spoilers in the title...

[@artable3]

Yeh I was just kidding sorry

[@josephcelestiel6129]

​@@artable3yeah right lol 😂

[@artable3]

@@josephcelestiel6129 I didn't even watch the video, cos I want to play it. Hehe

[@inzone88]

I like dion as a character. I just skip his kissing scene and pretend hes straight.

[@Pizzadelivery24]

Wtf

[@inzone88]

@@Pizzadelivery24 You confused?

[@Pizzadelivery24]

@@inzone88 why do you need to pretend he is straight

[@inzone88]

@@Pizzadelivery24 i dont like watching guys kiss, thats why.

[@Pizzadelivery24]

@@inzone88 lame

[@vincentgraymore]

According to the fandom I have no right to comment, nor anything to bring because I have not played it. However, thanks for great insight and explanations.