Are You Ready to Eject Threats From Church?

[@billhoppe2991]

We had a man that attended our church for years. He was always odd but started crossing the line when he began hugging some of the peoples young daughters that he didn't know. He then dreamed up that he was on our Safety Team and tried to handcuff a guy that we did have some issues with but resolved by talking. We finally told him that we couldn't have him acting that way and he told us that God told him to. We made him leave and he hasn't been back in over a year. Most of us at our Chapel/Church are ex military as he is. He had been known to stroll in with a 45 under his coat. He's still on our radar. Thanks

[@user-wi3mq1jw6h]

Same here for er church member for years back slid bad started hitting ladies or being harsh he was asked outeventually was a pillar long ago...sad

[@JPurkeypile]

At some point, Satan and an entire third of the angels were cast out of Heaven. As Christians, we must be wise in choosing where to draw the line, but also must stand for the reign of Good.

[@ryhouseholder]

I've had a young woman attempt to enter the sanctuary eating a bowl of cereal. The same person tried to come in with a puppy. Both times I denied her access even though she was the pastor's daughter.

[@ChurchSecurityAnswers]

Wow, I have heard some of those issues with the Pastor's kids, fortunately my Pastors kids are adults and no issues with them.

[@lancedavis3799]

We had a visitor walk in and sit up in the front row, where we normally sit visiting speakers. As the service progressed he began laughing loudly at inapproppriate times and turning around in his seat and glaring at the older folks in the congregation, particularly the older women (later on I found out it made them feel scared). He refused leave when asked to. The police were called to have him removed from the property and to trespass him, but before the police could arrive the pastor decided, from the pulpit, to have the congregation pray for this man, at which point the man hastely left. Everybody who was a security person, even those not scheduled that day moved to where he was and were discreetly seated all around the him...just in case.

[@Lauren-vd4qe]

sounds like he had a devil in him, and when the WHOLE congregation prayed for him, the Holy Spirit literally drove him OUT of the church as the devil in him could not STAND to be in the presence of praying believers!

[@Shinobi1Kenobi]

Y'all handled that very well.

[@nutfield7678]

"Maintaining order and respect (sanctity of service)" There's the nut shell. Thanks for making this video.

[@stevenhard3961]

The users start attending if they think the church will give them money etc. once they find a giving church and start getting "help" they change to expecting things and then to announcing to church what they "need" and expecting to get it at that service. One person was told by this person that he was going to get and make a young lady that attended to be his wife. In checking things out it was found he had a couple CSC convictions. The guy expected as a homeless person for people to let him camp on their property and then get very well paid for any labor done. One member had denied the request so this guy went behind the man's back that declined and tried to get the deniers wife to say yes. The user was using at least 3 people church to pick him up and drive him to the beach and wait for him so he had ride back. Or to at his request drive him to other towns. Be careful of who you let in as it could be a wolf on the hunt!

[@Chief9Arrows]

Ok, little light humor about the gerbil. Reminds me of Ray Stevens squirrel in the church song, lol. Great vid as usual though

[@DennieMelton]

Agree with your Information evaluation.Nampa, Idaho. 06/23/2024.

[@anacleto6610]

Sir, you are right to state all that is good right in the interest of one and all for the sake of safety and security of all in the church - for listening to the word of God 🙏 , thank you so much for your valuable instructions - God Bless you!

[@user-bl4hb1bq9t]

So I was rased catholic. catholic grade school & high school. Grade school was part of church grounds. So everybody knew each other. Parents new each other. The parents new each others kids. So this was like 78 or 79 so back in the day, I was like 18 or 19. Me & my buddy were at midnight mass on Xmas eve. We had our 3 piece suits on. We were drunk off our ass. We had gotten a little loud & got sushed by the usher. We quite down, got loud, got shushed. I think the usher new my parents who were up front in the church. After mass we continued to party! I'm 64 & quit drinking back in 96. But I laugh evertime I remember that story! I fell way from the church! But my 92 YO mother. When her ride is unavailable I have to driver her. I don't like having to talk to church people. But thats a story I already told! My moms church don't have security. I'm always armed. 1 usher might be an ex cop. 1 time I had to tell him twice to mind his own business. Oh the third time I meet him at bingo. He tried a different approach. He started with I'm an ex cop, I said so that's why your an asshole now fuck off. I'm here because of my elderly mother go roust somebody else!

[@clintanderson7453]

Towards the very end, you mentioned that we may have to take hold of them to escort out if they are non-compliant…i.e. hands-on. This is a topic that I hope you further address: how to do this effectively and legally.

[@Shinobi1Kenobi]

Your state laws may vary. Be prudent here. There is both the question of LEGALITY and the questions of best practices for how to do this, physically. Most people should NOT touch anybody unless you are touching them BACK, if you get my meaning.

[@fredstampflee888]

I’ve thought about this I believe the posted time for church needs to be a portal of access to services, after the posted time to enter for services draws near the doors need to be locked. As people enter the security can assess then as they enter with the crowd if they intend ill they will stand out and can be dealt with before the incident even gets started. People intending harm will usually stand out. Either the church security or armed ushers in these days and times are more and more going to be needed. No, they are going to be a necessity. It will become more apparent as times gets closer to those last days the safety of the congrenation will become paramount to whether or not the pews are occupied on what ever sabbath is worshipped.

[@sasquatch885]

Great information!

[@Nonyabusiness911]

It’s hot here in south Florida most of the year. It makes it easy to spot something out of place. Also, we are a small church and I know almost everybody.

[@jameshoward2952]

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one (sorry Star Trek fans.) Having studied this shooting and putting on training classes about this shooting all over this country, I have a little different take. Not saying this question doesn't weigh heavy on the hearts of pastors and safety team members. The shooting at East Freeway COC is a classic example of what safety team members should not do in situations like this. I can give you several stories where people have shown up in "costumes" at our church who were not asked to leave at first but asked to stop wearing said costumes if they wanted to continue to attend. The suspect in EFCOC came into the church with a disguise on. You pointed out that the church knew him, they did, but the info I have gotten, they didn't recognize him that day till after he was shot and the fake beard and wig were removed. Here are my issues with this situation. First and foremost, when he came in with the disguise on, the suspect made people nervous. People moved away from him because of the disguise. The lead of the safety team (Jack Wilson) stated they saw him and put a safety team member on him and also put a camera on him so they could keep an eye on him. Two main things in situations like this. One as soon as you feel uncomfortable about a person in your church like this, not like the one with the little animal, call local law enforcement. The man came in with a disguise on. If he had walked into a bank with the same disguise, they would have called the police. Why not churches? Law enforcement would rather get there and nothing happens than get there after tragedy strikes. The second thing that bothers me about this case is that nobody approached him and discussed the wig and fake beard. If so, they should have said no disguises in church, period. If you want to take off the fake beard and wig and worship, so be it, but that would have warned the church of who this person was who had already been angry with the church. In my training, I have been asked what if the person with the beard and wig showed you he had just had cancer treatments and had sores all over his face and head and didn't want to gross anyone out. Fine, but I am going to sit with that person throughout the rest of the service, worship with him, and pray with him. Ejecting people out of your church because of non-threatening actions is one thing. Letting a wolf sit in your church like this one leads to disaster. There need to be more discussions like this.

[@Shinobi1Kenobi]

On point!

[@jimscruggs5400]

You are on point,

[@NDcompetitiveshooter]

This is a great conversation to have. I feel that if one is willing to not be intentionally disruptive to the worship of others then they should be allowed to come and stay. If they need to be asked to leave and fail to do so, I would recommend calling the police rather than going hands on. I would not recommend using any degree of physical force unless necessary to protect yourself or others from imminent harm. Let the police handle it. The presiding leader of the church could also choose to dismiss the congregation for the day depending on the level and seriousness of the disruption. Going hands on may escalate the situation and make a bad situation worse IMO.

[@Shinobi1Kenobi]

Some states allow the use of force, except for lethal force, to eject trespassers or to stop some kind of menacing behavior. SOME DON'T. But this is, generally speaking, not a good idea even if it is legal. I agree with you. Once the use of force (touching someone without their expressed permission is a simple battery in many states, conditional threats of force = force in many states) begins, things can and often do go in unexpected directions. If you cross that threshold, you must be prepared to prevail NO MATTER WHAT. And very few church-goers are "there." Plainly speaking, this was just bad advice UNLESS someone has an active LEO's license in that jurisdiction. That MIGHT be an exception.

[@NDcompetitiveshooter]

@@Shinobi1Kenobi Good judgment is key, and you are right that most church goers aren't fully prepared for the event. I teach our state's use of force laws, have a 4th dan black belt, am proficient with weapons and self-defense, and have experience in real life encounters, and even I recommend not using force unless necessary. Having an active peace officer's license provides some legal protection and arrest powers, but unfortunately not all LEO are actually ready to handle a situation either.

[@Shinobi1Kenobi]

Facts!

[@NickFrom1228]

Good into. Thanks.

[@walterallen1253]

Awesome information ❤

[@jgren4048]

Generally speaking, why isn’t your first concern as to offending the one you worship more important than offending the one who came in to be disruptive? Which is more important to you?

[@CaptainQueue]

Is it ever ok to physically eject someone -- for example yelling during the service -- who will not otherwise leave?

[@freemandiaz5123]

More common than shootings

[@jgren4048]

In many states if not all there is law on the books which makes disrupting disquieting or interrupting of a worship service is illegal. This has no reference to religion as far as I know. It goes beyond trespassing laws.

[@THECompressorGuru]

tough subject .I think you handled it well. occasionally we have had 3 different guys open carry during the service. we watch them close. I do not know why this was done. I am not sure they understand we do have a quite safety team and they were noticed and watched closely. none of the 3 were first attenders and seldom do this. would you handle this any differently?

[@ChurchSecurityAnswers]

Hey Guru, no I generally keep an eye on open carry folks. But I think they just make us nervous. I had one guy that open carried that was coming to church quite some time and I just worked on getting to know him, talking to him about guns and after a few weeks I saw he was a good guy who was expressing his right to carry. So I was still nervous to see that gun exposed, but I was not so stressed about him carrying after our conversations. I tend to feel for our congregation too....because I know if I am nervous they are probably really stressed about seeing that gun.

[@Shinobi1Kenobi]

This is one of those things where different contexts lead to different responses. I know of a couple of Cowboy Churches where open carry is pretty typical. Here in FL, it is not legal unless hunting, fishing, camping, or engaged in a shooting sports activity at a range/club. @@ChurchSecurityAnswers

[@user-wi3mq1jw6h]

So sad sad😢

[@godswarriors7543]

Get closer to God To start with God is The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost. Three yet one. The law is our schoolmaster. It teaches us who The Father is, our law giver, who The Son is, our redeemer who you are and what it will look like after the return of Jesus. Jesus kept His Father's law while He was here, He will still keep it even though He is now King. Jesus inherited His Father's ways and laws etc.. To practice our religion is to be doers of The Word. In doing so we learn to not only give our heart to God, but our mind as well. Then one day, hopefully soon, we learn how to give our soul or body and we become the living sacrifice God so seeks. The church can't do what Jesus did because it is God who heals etc. through the living who did as Jesus did and can "keep" His Father's laws, given to the children. No one can keep all the laws because they were given to a nation. God and Jesus are one. So if we can see Jesus, we see The Father. So let's look upon Jesus. So let's see what The Father did when we repented and asked for help. God placed His law upon our heart.In John we are told that Jesus is The Word. Jesus is The Word, John 1:1-5 The Word God spoke: Exodus 20:1 The Word God wrote: Deuteronomy 4:13 and The Word God made flesh John 1:14. Let the Law that hung on the cross and the Law written in your heart not just guide you, but lead you and your loved ones. As Paul would say, "put on Jesus." Seek the face of Jesus and spread Him over our land. Arm your children, home, loved ones, neighbours. Remember to pray always. Allow God to set our borders, protect our loved ones and may soon come His day and we are still standing. Put on Jesus. God has spoken to all mankind when He spoke the Ten Commandments, Deut. 6:8-9. (K.J.V.) John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Psalm 119:151Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Perhaps we should walk in the Spirit and Truth the way God says to in Deuteronomy 6:8-9. All who know and love God, and those who know one cannot stand against the world, need to trust His wisdom. To know their voice is to "keep" the Ten Commandments and Sermon on the Mount. Be sure to set your borders! He hasn't left us, we left Him when we took Him from public schools, courts,etc.. Please people. We need the Armour of God. What harm can it really do to follow His Ways, and customs? If you love Jesus, accept Him for who He is. Don't be caught in your iniquity. Get in His covenant. (K.J.V.) A decision we all must make for our family.Confirm all things through Scripture and pray always. And remember Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. Allow God to protect you, yours and your property. Love is better expressed by action than by words.

[@minutebooks3245]

Everyone is initially welcome in church. However. Church is not first and foremost for unbelievers. It is not primarily a soup kitchen or a welfare office. Helping the poor and the sick are good things if we direct those resources at the church first and possibly to some unbelievers if it is done wisely. Being on a worship team is for Christians only. Why would you have an unbeliever (all of whom hate God) play along with Christian worship?

[@Johnny.G.]

Any situations in which you had to use a more Hands-On approach? I want to send your channel a bill that was passed here in my state that talks about church security and I wanted to see what you think about it. Where can I send that to?

[@ChurchSecurityAnswers]

you can send us email at [e-mail]

[@Johnny.G.]

@@ChurchSecurityAnswers thanks you sir will do

[@navybrat02]

Currently have an issue with a ministry group due to me issuing a CTW on a homeless guy for assaulting a church member.

[@MrRAGE-md5rj]

Why would they have an issue with that? They anti-gun or something?

[@buddysampley8326]

Would think differently if they were the ones assaulted!

[@navybrat02]

@@MrRAGE-md5rj the person who is upset is in charge of that ministry. She doesn't realize the severity that could have happened.

[@navybrat02]

@buddysampley8326 she almost was but since it puts a bad look on her ministry she wants it to disappear and I'm not backing down.

[@MrRAGE-md5rj]

Good on you standing up. If she's making problems about this now, then it'll only be a matter of time before her or somebody else gets hurt, and there'll be no one to fight back.@@navybrat02

[@johnpoitras7681]

Church is for the believers to gather. We are to go out and win the lost, then gather together at church. If someone gets saved at church GREAT but church is not for the world to just think they can come and go and be a leech. Help is fine but the church is not the charity for all. Pffff….

[@ronr3656]

I agree with many of your points but need people to feel comfortable and eject those who don't make them feel comfortable? I think ejection should be done with accountability and follow up. Crossroads in Cincinnati is aggressive with this and does it willy nilly with no accountability. It is way over the line and absolutely not Christian. Comfort should not be the criteria. Jesus Christ Himself makes us feel uncomfortable in our sin. If not, you're in the wrong church.

[@2WheelsForever]

Is the Cincinnati Crossroads Church the same one that had the viral video of them KICKING the Bible like a football game?

[@Shinobi1Kenobi]

I didn't get the vibe that he was talking about people being a LITTLE uncomfortable due to socio-economic factors, but folks being a LOT uncomfortable (distracting, disrupting) because of BEHAVIOR. This makes all the difference in the world.