Photonis vs Elbit | Settling the Debate

[@TRINITYIMPERAT]

This is very specific topic for a very few people, but for those very few people, its very useful and good content, thank you for focusing more on quality and not quantity with your audience, I very appreciate it.

[@nullnull667]

AI ass reply

[@airborneivan]

Just a heads up, I've spoken with Photonis previously and the Photonis tubes that are sold stateside or made here in the US. There are two locations in the US- one in Sturbridge, Massachusetts and another in Lancaster, PA.

[@PaulMcDonagh-rv6vc]

I am someone who has owned a Photonis XR5 (GP) with FOM 1760 - and Elbit XLSH (WP) FOM 2357. They both are fantastic tubes (Elbit + Photonis) , with unique pro's and cons, depending on your intended use and environment. Its really quite a simple comparison when your not heavily invested in selling them to your audience. Personally, i dont trust company reviews, as they are heavily biased, and some are outright bullshit artists. Lets list the important stuff. 1. Photonis being "gen 2 plus" means jack diddly shit in the real world. Dont let these generation designations sway your decision. Photonis are very advanced tubes, and will continue to push the technological boundaries in the future, whereas gen 3 has less room for technological growth in comparison. In short, Photonis gen 2+ is shit hot. 2. The crucial factor in your decision depends upon your use and environment. If you live out in the deep dark boonies, gen 3 has the clear advantage, and is my clear choice, its a no brainer. gen3 light amplication can never be beaten by photonis, non of their current tubes, xd4, xr5, echo, echo+, 4g, nor their flagship 4g+ can outperform a elbit xlsh (unless your xlsh is a dud with min spec). For deep dark booonies, go for gen 3. Simple. 3. For urban, semi urban and even semi rural, Photonis is going to give you better resolution and far better auto-gating. This will mean any lights in the distance, or a farm building I.R security light will be ironed out beautifully by the Photonis. Whereas gen 3 is going to be a large halo and lower resolution, meaning a worst image than photonis. When i say semi rural, i mean being out in the countryside, with a large town or city nearby, or street lamps 2km away, or lots of farm ir lights etc. This environment will give plenty of sky glow, and give the Photonis all it needs to provide a decent image. Gen 3 will drop in resolution if you have any manmade light source in the distance. The halo is also larger on gen 3. No dog in the fight, as i own both. And if i was heading into semi rural, i'm taking the photonis device. If i'm driving out to the woods, or a hike 15 miles away from town, i'm taking the gen 3. Follow this advice, and you wont go wrong in your decision.

[@darthhelmet8532]

Thanks!

[@Arkayne]

Great way to summarize

[@dhonda250r]

Is there a happy medium between the two for the guy who can't afford 2 different setups??? Thanks

[@PaulMcDonagh-rv6vc]

@@dhonda250r If I had the choice again, I would go for a top of the line Photonis 4g+. In the US 4g+ is just called 4g. So if you are in the US, go for a top of the line 4g with minimum FOM of 2300+. Or wait a little while, because I know for 100% certain that photonis USA is about to launch their new flagship 5g tube. Price TBC. Hope this may help. .

[@ScullCandy56]

There isn't its either photonis or Elbit or you go balls to the walls and go completely broke and get L3Harris filmless There's chinese NNVT but they're worse than all 3 I just mentioned. you could try to make up for the lack of resolution in deep woods with a Jerry C coti for some thermal fusion to pick up heat signatures of people/animals that you can't resolve/see because of the lack of deep woods complete darkness resolution for an extra $3k on top of your device cost or the lower resolution Jerry C for about $2k extra@@dhonda250r

[@ungerjs90]

I'll finally have the funds to buy a tube next week, after some time saving and abstaining - and I'm currently back and forth between these very two tubes. The conversation I really needed to hear. Good post.

[@manscapedgrinch1427]

In the same boat.. which way you leaning in terms of what tube you plan on grabbing?

[@ungerjs90]

@@manscapedgrinch1427 I think I'm just going to go with the cheaper Photonis Echo. It'll still meet my requirements since I'll only really be using it for hunting hogs. If I was using it for dangerous work then I'd probably pony up the difference for the Elbit but I simply don't need too. I'll just get the surefire V2 to make up for the lower brightness on the photonis.

[@manscapedgrinch1427]

@@ungerjs90 I keep leaning in that direction.. mines effectively going to be used for the same thing.. the occasional hog hunt, and for running off Coyote or foxes. I hope you enjoy yours.

[@KowOneOhTwo]

This is an excellent set to speak about this topic on, having multiple camera angles is cool too. Great video and audio quality, deserves more views.

[@billysouth4698]

I agree with Ethan, I built my PVS-14 with an Elbit XLSH 2770.2 FOM, high Luminous, low EBI, and Halo, and it's ultra-clear!

[@Averagedude73]

Excellent guys to deal with! Bought a set of 14s WP photonis last year and very nice tubes, after sale customer service A+

[@warrentotheg]

RH25 through Ethan. Great experience.

[@N7Narc0sis]

I have to say I've been entering this rabit hole and am saving up to build out a Nocturn Tanto. This video is immensely helpful as I am also budget minded. It really seems as though the Photonis option is a "no lose" choice

[@Arkayne]

Folks like to bash photonis, when in reality Photonis is the largest intensifier tube manufacturer on the planet. And they make amazing tubes. Not sure why everyone decided to hate on them so much, but they are some of the cleanest and most consistent tubes we run.

[@CageyTroller]

@@Arkayne it's just a bunch of redditors who just want to sound smart on their forums, sure you own that gear on r/qualitytaticalgear or r/nightvision but they don't go outside.. it's all a fasion sub lol

[@Kevin-di6lf]

@@Arkayne Only US people are bashing photonis just because it's not american (it's French). Photonis was born later than Elbit, and had less experience. But I think nowadays, this delay may be almost caught up.

[@selmevias1383]

@@Arkayne Because it's French.

[@arrow4773]

My question is, which Nods/Tubes create that very deep Blue Color?

[@musicman1eanda]

This is the first source I've seen speaking positively about Photonis. Thanks for the perspective

[@Arkayne]

Photonis is our first choice in almost all circumstances

[@billydanzz]

Great info. What's your take on video reviews on the Photonis tubes having issues with "flickering" when used in conjunction with some external IR devices?

[@TheMikehotel]

Great info, thanks. I just picked up a set of Katanas with photonis that have 2300 FOM, thoughts? Would i even see a difference between those and Elbit?

[@apollo9x19]

youre not missing out between photonis/elbit. extremely comparable

[@innawoods.larper]

I have a Elbit Pinnacle green phos tube in my 14 and when I tried on my friends photonis bino it kinda blew my eyes out because I was adjusted to the dark. I also noticed the image wasn't as clear as my 14. Will probably never own an auto gain tube because of that.

[@shidandfard9976]

1:11 the rifle buttstock casually sitting in a fire

[@dimemmo]

Is there any truth to the photonis tubes not lasting as long? I saw a video not long ago where they stated that photonis tubes have a much quicker expiration than elbit and l3

I've had three different OMNI 8 tubes, very nice and capable. Next week I'll have a pair of ECHO+ tubes with 32SNR and 72RES and we'll be able to compare them. I don't expect them to do worse than the OMNI8s.

[@RunningWithSauce]

and?

@@RunningWithSauce They are what I expected and more. WP really works better for my eyes. Clarity and definition are excellent, and the reaction to light sources is much faster. I'm very happy with the Echo+ and I consider them an upgrade.

[@markanthonypar-wise1499]

​@really? Photonis echo is better then the Omnii tubes ? I have a WP photonis echo too just curious how they compare to gen 3 Omnii even tho gen doesn't really matter

[@olympiaarms7718]

Exactly what I needed to hear! Mahalo

[@thegolflife7565]

How is the Photonis 4G? Or is that the same as the echo?

[@Nontacticalboy]

To be fair, it's can sometimes be more appropriate for non experienced user to determine what they see is a better tube than those with tons of experience and bias. More like first time and raw opinions.

[@spacemarin04]

Right now I'm running an Elbit xlsh with 2200 FOM qnd thinking about going to dual tubes. Think it would be a gain going to dual tube photonis?

[@Arkayne]

If your looking for out of band width ability or more simply put the ability to see a 1064 laser and or illuminator Photonis tubes are the best option on the market.

[@chadcaine9474]

Why is L3 not considered here? Just wondering because I’ve been looking at an l3 tube from US Night Vision. Also what is the difference between the L3 tube they sell and the non L3 branded tubes included in their turnkey bundles? Having a hard time figuring all this out, I’m brand new.

[@Arkayne]

We prefer Elbit and Photonis to unfilmed L3. ESPECIALLY in units with no gain adjustment. That being said, we build and offer L3 if that’s what the customer wants. Many L3 units have longer lead times and much higher prices. In our opinion there’s as MASSIVE diminishing return when considering L3. Most people would be better off spending less on the unit and putting remaining cash towards training, lasers, optics, illuminators etc. no hate towards L3. We just don’t prefer them. Photonis is our favorite tube in almost all cases.

[@Ronin-636]

@@Arkaynewhat do you think of these new GP high fom photonis units I’m seeing high spec

[@m0314700308891515]

Could you perhaps use comparison images that aren't so bright there's clear shadows from the moon? It's not really very useful 😕

[@Arkayne]

Let me summarize: you will not be able to see a sizeable difference between a 1900+ FOM Photonis and any other intensifier tube on the market. There. Much better.

[@patroit5192]

In your guys experience do you see photonis tubes with streaking when you look at a bright light source

[@Arkayne]

Photonis tubes for the most part do not "streak" as easily as the other tube options on the market. It is possible but takes a-lot more to do it.

[@MultiMideo]

Comparison makes sense when you compare items at their peak performance. Throwing in 2 images made in not very difficult conditions will not give you any idea of capabilties.

[@thatoneguy454c]

The right answer is gen 3 aviation grade L3 unfilmed WP.

[@jmeyers88]

😂 take my $6,000

[@Life-of-Riley]

Love the talk. Love seat Got me feeling a bit weird tho. Captains chairs might be less dangerous.

[@Arkayne]

We like living dangerously 🤷🏻‍♂️ 🤣

[@TheFORUNNERGaming]

Given that the echos are 4G fallouts (most of the time), would that out of band sensitivity perhaps be inconsistent between tube to tube, or in fact the reason the tube itself fell out of 4G classification?

[@apollo9x19]

probably, but not as much as you'd think. that out of band sensitivity comes from the chemistry of the photocathode section of the intensifier tube. band sensitivity probably correlates directly with the purity of the chemicals and elements used to create the photocathode, as well as overall sensitivity of the tube.

[@RXR91]

Are you comparing these two units with the same numbers?

[@Arkayne]

The two units in the video have drastically different specs, they are actually over 1000 FOM different. That fact should definitely be considered while watching and it should actually show you quite clearly the "law" of diminishing return in this night vision market. When you spend more you will get higher specs but how much more functionality do you get as you spend more to obtain higher specs? Everyone looking to purchase night vision should ask themselves this.

[@creekochee3592]

SNR being 36 on the XLSH and only being 28 on the Photonis is the biggest difference.

[@ballinonabudget1130]

Not he biggest difference is the resolution. 81 res is cheating and will bring the FOM up a lot when in reality it is no where near a better tube

[@justinw.7641]

​​@@ballinonabudget1130 SNR matters more IMO, the sole purpose is being able to see in the dark. High SNR nets better performance in less light. The res helps sure but if you can't see the image (too noisy) the res means little. This is why fom alone is pointless unless you know SNR and res. Res does matter just not more than SNR, imo.

[@mrdojob]

28 SNR is still very decent.

[@klane7]

What is the highest snr number from photonis anyone has ever seen ?

[@Arkayne]

It is VERY common for tubes/units to come in that are 32+ for Echos. Some are a little lower, some are even better.

[@JetorgXIII]

What about the 4G photonis tubes vs an Echo?

[@Arkayne]

Negligible difference depending on specs of the echo. We curate high spec echo and 4G. Very, very negligible difference. 4G are higher specs, but they ALL start from the exact same manufacturing process. echos are 4G tubes that don’t meet “4G Spec”.

[@senator7352]

@@Arkayne 4G+ tubes can have gains of up to 35,000, which when translated to US gain measurements can be up to 80,000 equiv of a max spec L3 tube, so not entirely true im afraid, you just cant get these tubes because they are almost entirely exclusively reserved for LE/MIL in europe.

[@senator7352]

@@Arkayne Almost all high spec echo tubes fail due to the gain, most 4G tubes that pass gain spec will have gain higher than 20k+ (the MIL/LE reserved ones that is)

[@Averagedude73]

@@senator7352 Well I can assure you that the echo tubes I have in my dual 14 setup are excellent and I have other high spec GP that I have had for years and take these echo tubes all day long!

[@senator7352]

@@Averagedude73 I have a set of Photonis 2000fom binos myself and they are amazing, but I also have 2700fom L3 binos and they are only better in ridiculously dark environments tbh

[@marwanbedrush9758]

I see the ECHO much much more detailed from the elbit.. I can’t be the only one seeing that

[@carlh4350]

In my opinion, based on cost / value. I don't see the benefits of photonis. Now that there isn't a year plus wait on the American tubes and the photonis cost has gone up making them nearly as much money.

[@davideinstein7887]

THIS ^^^^^^^^^

[@ChristiannTyler]

Holy shit this is confusing.. I went to your site to order some I thought pvs14 was a pvs14 and all I had to do was choose green or white lol now I gotta rethink this whole thing. Can I call your shop and get some more info? I’m trying to follow along here but this is a big investment I want to be sure I’m making the right choice.

[@Arkayne]

Absolutely, email [e-mail] and you can schedule a call with an expert to help you decide what is best for you 👊

[@Haikeoutdoor]

We are a professional outdoor sports equipment manufacturer, completely independent in design and production. We have various types of night vision devices. Welcome to talk about it.

[@Mills141]

I've used both and 90%+ of people would be great with cheaper and training other than walking around the block in the dark...

[@chuckles6102]

this video couldnt be better timing for me

[@Arkayne]

Hit us up if you have questions or need help getting into a unit

[@MacDonaldEdmund-t6o]

Rodriguez David Johnson Deborah Brown Daniel

[@GRUPPA.KOLDUN]

Spouting a lot of nonsense here 😂

[@ScottTaylor-k4g]

Rodriguez Christopher Young Melissa Thompson Carol

[@Tattlebot]

Slow monotone and dilapidated dress. Apparent lack of technical knowledge. Firearms about for some reason? These are scientific instruments.

[@billydanzz]

Always one.....

[@apollo9x19]

you must know a lot about night vision. Care to correct the incorrect technical knowledge discussed in this video?

[@Tattlebot]

@@apollo9x19 These are fascinating devices that will become more common as they become better and less expensive. I don't need my country's regulators (who've banned airsoft) looking at boogaloo boys and tick pimp faux-farmers (whom are actually seditionist ex-army rangers in disguise) advertising them solely to like-minded people. I want them to be marketed simply as the devices which they are, and the broader population will find uses for them, like astronomy.

[@apollo9x19]

@@Tattlebot it seems you're hyper focused on how they look. do you have a prejudice of some sort against farmers? as far as i know, these guys are not ex-army rangers. advertising them to like minded people is the reason why we can have these devices, whereas the opposite is true for your regulators. hating people for wanting to educate our people with the tools they need to ensure our regulators do not create unjust laws, like your own, is foolish and mainly the reason your regulators get away with it in the first place. people in astronomy already have better technology for when it comes to astrophotography, this is simply because the output of these devices was designed for the human eye, and not photography. it only outputs either green or blueish light based on the phosphor used. today, astronomers and astrophotographers use cmos based chips, which have sensitivities well out into the 1100nm wavelength range, along with swir, and ccd sensors to capture more of the NIR and IR spectrum to see things we normally wouldnt be able to see, even with said image intensifier tubes. so, if you'd like, you could find something constructive to say, rather than discriminate based on their looks. or, just keep it moving if you didnt find any of the information talked about useful, and continue to live miserably where your regulators are so unbelievably dumb that they ban airsoft. either way, have a great day.

[@Tattlebot]

@@apollo9x19 this was supposed to be a one off comment, not a thread. Consider history. Would farmers go into town wearing best dress, or would they choose to look like convenience store robbers?

[@Esper320]

Bro got that poverty vision

[@Arkayne]

We have every type of nightvision and thermal you could imagine. There’s nothing poverty about Photonis. They make amazing tubes.

[@Unvaccinated100Percent]

elbit is better