Armed Sparring is Pointless, I guess. (Response to

Well, time to quit HEMA... it's just not real enough.
Jokes aside, this is quite an interesting discussion, and it's always good to exchange different points of view coming from different experiences.
Realistic practice of martial arts always has some limitations, not just for sake of safety but also because of the goals, rules, and gear involved. Can practicing with swords / machetes / knives / etc be fully legitimate when considering how far removed it necessarily must be from the hazards of actual combat? Let's talk about it!
The videos I'm showing here:
Weapons sparring kinda sucks by Ramsey Dewey
• Simulations are not vi...
The Rollbot is INCREDIBLE by Brandon Mccaghren
• The Rollbot is INCREDIBLE
KENJUTSU fight with steel Katana! by Weaponism
• KENJUTSU fight with st...
Outro:
"Highland Storm" by The Slanted Room Records
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Used with artist's permission
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#skallagrim #hema #martialarts #swordfighting #sparring #sword #selfdefense

[@FoRm4t123]

back in the day the knights that actually went into a battlefield trained with practice swords. if it was good enough for dudes willing to chop heads on the battlefields it is good enough to pressure test with in 2024.

[@ArifRWinandar]

Some of those knights also died.

[@Nick-o-time]

​@@ArifRWinandarpeople die boxing. What's your point?

[@irrelevantfish1978]

​@@ArifRWinandar And some of those who practice unarmed sparring die in brawls. What's your point?

[@Wingzero90939]

I mean, they do have full contact, medieval sports that have the very minimum of safety gear it’s just a barrier of entry is very high. If you enjoy getting in car accidents in your spare time, you can always take up full contact medieval jousting. Like Tobey Capwell, who has made some videos with Matt Easton. The guy has his own custom suit of armor and likes to Joust for fun.

[@user-tzzglsstle585e38]

@@ArifRWinandar And those knights died because of other people who also trained with practice swords/weapons.

[@daveburklund2295]

The Scholar-General made a great point in his response video: militaries throughout history have had to train soldiers to use deadly weapons in non-lethal ways. To me, it's pretty obvious that one can do that, because humans have been doing just that, and continue to do that.

[@EnthusedPotatoes]

Modern militaries train gunfights in shoot houses against targets as well as against each other with simunitions. By all empirical accounts this seems to work, but according to this guy it's all bunk because they're not actually shooting each other.

[@rorschach775]

Yeah I usually like Ramsey but this point he's trying to make seems pretty dumb. Every training is not the same as the actual job. And lots of people go to war and handle the pressure while they are there. It sucks. They are scared. But they are performing. It's not like you instantly fall apart. The training is specifically designed to give you the muscle memory to perform while you are overwhelmed. That's the whole point. Maybe you do 50% as well as you would during training but that's probably more than someone who has zero training.

[@16m49x3]

Sure but they also make sure to bloody their soldiers in combat because if 0% of your soldiers have seen real war they will do worse. This is one of the reasons there's always a war somewhere

[@bdjcasar8357]

Martial artists, soldiers, police have all been using sparring to train for combat for as long as they've all existed because it works.

[@bloodsports94]

Ramsey doesn't even believe in martial arts outside of bjj. He thinks anything else is "totally bs and would never work" He's an arrogant moron.

[@derekdalpez3401]

But it never FULLY prepares you for the real thing,and i think that was his point.

[@inspectorcal]

exactly your opponent is not trying to end you in whatever brutal fashion they choose. so it can never be compared to actual combat, sparring yes, but actual fight to the death,,no, never. @@derekdalpez3401

[@4yinyang]

​@@derekdalpez3401that falls flat since he is also saying that sparring with gloves and certain rules are somehow more comparable to "the real thing" than any sparring done with any kind of weaponry which is bogus.

[@paddycake5915]

Facts, sparring in mma with gloves and a helmet on is the same as practicing swordfighting with wooden practice swords and padded clothes. The purpose of the fake weapon is to prevent lethal blows, in mma sparring so called 'murder strikes' aren't allowed (blows to the back of the head, grounded knee strikes and other things as well).the purpose of gloves or padded armor is to prevent injury, nobody learns defensive techniques armed or otherwise when they wind up with permanent injury. Edit: also here in the US sparring is not used for police training to any degree. Shooting training sure, a physical fitness exam to pass the academy sure, but physical fitness and even knowledge of the laws they enforce is not required in annual retraining. If police here were required to at least be a mid belt level in any professional martial art police caused deaths and injuries in the US could be cut down by half as half of all police involved shootings happen within arms reach of the perp. Also chasing suspects rather than unleashing dogs or magdumping would become a real possibility which makes up the rest of police involved shootings outside of statistical anomalies.

[@TheGREYPELT]

His argument of "well sparring isn't the same as an actual fight" works against him. He can square up with a partner and walk away afterwards because there are rules preventing his opponent from throwing him down and stomping on his head, which is an incredibly common way for actual brawls to end.

[@gamerguy6990]

Actual fights also involve the possibility of the other guy having a gun.

[@andreas_rr]

Alternative way of looking at it: 9/10 sparring fist fights ent without a single drop of blood spilled, while 9/10 "real fights" end with much more than a single drop of blood spilled. In the end, no sparring can be at least somewhat safe, but also teach you how you'd react if bones break, blood spills, concussions occur and so on. That's literally in the definition of safety, that any serious injuries should be avoided as good as possible

[@nekko5778]

theres no point to the vid entirely its like saying oh so you dont race? how come you like cars???? noone does hema or jousting or whatever expecting to face an attacker with a longsword irl xq

[@Sbv-25]

Being a high level mma fighter doesn’t make you weak against takedowns and stomps

[@Baumschubser1234]

​@@gamerguy6990 here in europe, its pretty likely, that they will draw knives and even machetes...

[@timberwolfmountaineer873]

As an ex kickboxer and someone who has no clue about fencing or armed sparring, here are my my two cents. How to judge if some activity is useful or useless: if by doing such activity you become better at your final goal - it's useful activity. if by doing an activity you do not progress at all towards your goal - it is indeed a pointless, useless activity. Sparring with wooden swords would probably help you a lot if you ended up in an actual sword fight for some reason. As opposed to never sparring/fencing at all. Hence it must be a useful activity. I think it's as simple as that.

[@Skallagrim]

I definitely agree, although the catch is that it's not always easy to determine how much something progesses you towards your goal. Unfortunately we don't get live stat counters and exp bars, and it's all too easy to develop bad habits by practicing suboptimally without realizing it.

[@ThepurposeofTime]

​@@Skallagrim This is why in martial arts weapon fighting is at the highest tier. Anyway he's just making this video for clicks, it's also his way to get attention from that crowd. In a few months he's gonna make a weapon based video. Guy is funny

[@Longshot441]

Trains you to be the best highlander.

[@domosrage5434]

training with a sword seems a bit funny, but the movements translate to other objects such as stick or poles ect. Not to mention, the grapples. If some crackhead comes at you and there is a nearby broom handle or whatever the hell, you can crack his head (haha) with that broomstick as if it were second nature. Even with no stick, the grappling movements are still very similar to unarmed grappling and is better than zero grappling experience.

[@ThepurposeofTime]

@@domosrage5434 only grappling is stupid because they might have a weapon, or the terrain is dangerous, or the environment is dangerous, or there might be multiple people so it's better to be mobile Ramsey just talks nonsense to get as much people talking on his videos as possible. It's good for publicity but if you're inexperienced it could cultivate a nonsense perspective on combat

[@HerzogVonMartian]

turns out bare knuckle boxing is safer in the long run because you bleed quicker and have to quit the match earlier while professional boxers use gloves and can go till a person's face swells up, meanwhile their brain is taking blow after blow after blow.

[@Archontasil]

Also, you can't hit as hard for long because you hands broke easier without gloves (the gloves are mostly there to protect the hand, not the head)

[@sephy980]

Yeah, Cosmetic damage is much worse but brain injury is less.

[@SaffronWorldCR]

In one combat alone bare knuckle is much more dangerous. There're a lot of things to consider here: bare knuckle means no handwraps so your joints and wrists can be easily injured, it's a lot easier to hit smaller spots i.e. eyes, and you can't use your hands to block or deflect punches as you do with a glove, now it's harder and probably will break your fingers. I can go on and on, but I hope you get the picture. Professional boxers worst injuries come from doing lots of fights, just like wrestling professionals health got much better once they could reduce the number of shows they had to do per week.

[@Bladerunner39]

@@SaffronWorldCR you can block and deflect punches with barehands the same way you can do with Gloves, Ramsey already debunked this.

[@SaffronWorldCR]

@@Bladerunner39 can you link to that video? Is he debunking actual bare knuckle or is he talking no gloves but still handwraps with protection for joints and knuckles?

[@CreepyMF]

A healthy calm discussion and breaking down each point the other makes, this is how a response video should be.

[@nonsequitor]

Judoka here: we absolutely don't train at 100%. And even when we're competing, we don't gouge people's eyes out then stomp on their necks... which is presumably what he means by "reality". I don't think Ramsey thought this through after he had the initial idea about comparing a HEMA sparring session with trying to survive attempted murder vs armed attackers in an alleyway when you're unarmed...or whatever his hypothetical was.

[@Fallenangel_85]

Or straight up breaking arms, legs or the neck full force in a hold... Even though people trying not to land on their back might give them serious injuries in a good throw.

[@immikeurnot]

When the MMA thing was kicking off (this was while UFC was a Round Robbin affair), I hung out with a guy that was all in, and had his own dojo. He was quick to point out that something like an arm bar was real-world relevant in its "street" form where you don't just put pressure until the other guy taps out; you yank that joint until it pops and you hear screaming.

[@LifeEnemy]

​@@immikeurnot To be fair, you can do that with a sword/club/stick/etc too. Even some of the wooden swords I use could break bones without much trouble. Assuming I understand you correctly, that is!

[@Wingzero90939]

Let’s also not forget that traditional judo is not really traditional judo anymore. Especially once they became an Olympic sport a lot of the throws that would pose more injury, or risk, not only once you performed them, on someone but also in practice were banned in the sport. The same thing with the IBJJF. They have very specific regulations on things that you can, and can’t do. All in effort to reduce injury. Taekwondo is the best example of this before the electronic scoring system. You had to actually hit hard enough to move people. Using the old-school scoring system with guys with clickers, multiple referees, watching a match, clicking, a button, giving points based on impact. The last time they used the old school system I think was in 2008. After that, it switched to the current Olympic scoring system using electronics. Where it is just basically electronic tag. My point being HEMA being a niche sport that it is, if you get rid of safety precautions and rules the sport will die. Say what you will about Taekwondo, but it is one of the most popular sport in the world still. For better or worse keeping people interested in the sport and wanting to do it is what prevents it from dying out. Most people are not going to want to train like Olympic athletes or train like a professional MMA fighter especially for a sport where you will not get paid for it. Nobody is willing to get hit in the head with a sword full force for free blunt or not. The incentive to make it more realistic and go full contact isn’t there especially since you can’t do it safely. It’s one of the reasons why Lethwei will never catch on in the west it’s just way too violent and your lifespan as an athlete is way too short.

[@TheNEOverse]

@@immikeurnot I dunno what your buddy teaches, but what I hear from BJJ guys is that you don't just put pressure and wait for the tap- you are straight up yanking violently with the intent to fully break the arm until the referee rips you off.

[@ShagShaggio]

What is this, a disagreement about a topic without taking it as a direct personal attack?! Inconceivable!!! Jokes aside great video! Cheers!

[@underarmbowlingincidentof1981]

Skallagrim should do it like other youtubers and personally challenge that dude to a fight to prove his superiority and manliness (the more people you can hurt the more manly you are)

[@Jezus42]

No it's just wholly uneducated

[@choiettech]

On the point about laser tag, there are militaries that make use of the technology for training. For example MILES Gear uses laser guns to help simulate combat situations. There's a video on training conducted by South Korea's 17th Infantry Division who uses the equipment. So whilst laser tag isn't the best training, it's not something that's not utilised for training soldiers.

[@BigJohnson-g3j]

It's pretty good I have done it. Not actual combat, however you know who has been shot. Airsoft is pretty good training as well.

[@mondaysinsanity8193]

The best is probably simunition but that's REALLY expensive

[@StudleyDuderight]

@@mondaysinsanity8193 And ruin uniforms. I have a few field uniforms dotted with pink holes(giggity) from simunition training events. Also got a few scars from them. Them shitters hurt.

[@arx3516]

​@@StudleyDuderightuniforms are provided by the military, if it gets ruined during training they'll give you a replacement, am i right?

[@shawn6860]

Simulated combat gives you muscle memory and shows what tactics and strategy works. and that in itself is very useful.

[@AaSs-ln9mm]

Question is "How guys in, lets say, 1805 trained to fight with blades?" They do sparring.

[@swissarmyknight4306]

Yeah, and they did sparring, which they called "bouting" or "fencing" in almost exactly the same way we do it today in HEMA. We just have better protective gear.

[@hirumaryuei]

On the subject of shooting bullets at live, reacting people, there are two options that are quite common in the military: 1: Sim ammunition. This is low velocity, frangible ammunition that is designed to cause minimal harm while still giving the same feeling and impact of shooting and getting shot. It doesn't recoil like real ammo (significantly less energy) and you need to wear protective gear. It is quite painful to get shot with if you're only wearing clothing. It doesn't have the same range as normal ammunition and is typically used in CQB training. 2: MILES gear. This is laser tag with real guns. It's not quite the same as real combat since there's a heavy weight on the end of your rifle and you're wearing a laser receiver rig, but the recoil is comparable (you're shooting blanks with a blank firing adapter). It doesn't give the same feedback from being shot, but tactically it's similar: you hear the gunshot and your rig starts beeping and you know you're "dead." Both are used extensively in the US Army and with other militaries worldwide.

[@TheLithp]

The first thing is something I was thinking to make something closer to "gun fight pressure testing" than "laser tag," but I wasn't completely sure something like that existed, & I didn't want to sound like an idiot.

[@ronin47-ThorstenFrank]

Agree. Actually MILES is THE classic way to train BECAUSE it is heavier gear than your normal gear. The only thing I would like to add is that it isn´t not as often used as it should be used because of the limited availability in many units.

[@overrideFunction]

I was thinking along the same lines. Simunitions were Ok, but it didn't hurt that bad at all. For me it was about the same as paintball or less depending on distance. I feel like they would talk up how much it hurt to try to replicate a little fear. The accuracy was also absolutely terrible. Honestly I would rather just train with airsoft replicas. My experience with MILES gear was it was always broken so we ended up training with broken gear on to check the needed training requirements and it was as pointless. I much preferred our training with blanks and blank firing adapters to MILES. Although if the gear actually worked it would likely have been better.

[@16m49x3]

You forgot mercenary work

[@CrazyTom34]

BJJ black belt here and long term watcher. I've grappled in practice and competition settings, also done sparring in striking (boxing) and fenced olympic fencin for a decade, never put hands on a person in anger. "Hard rolling" or competition rolling is frequently pretty much as hard and fast as you can go, locks are almost never instant damage and experienced grapplers can control it to allow you some time to tap but injuries in holds happen. Strangles take a long time to be fatal but sometimes people do pass out. I would say of three (grappling, fencing, and striking) you are pretty much able to near completely recreate competition feel and speed in fencing and grappling, but not so in striking. I believe Ramsey's point was largely directed at knife "self defense experts"

[@CrazyTom34]

Oh also for the record I largely agree with your take here Skall. But breaking bones and dislocating joints is 100% allowed in BJJ tournaments, it wins you a match, its the opponent's job to tap before that happens and you need to let go once they do

[@davefletch3063]

Real locks are joint destruction in combat. Sportsmen apply sensitivity and restraint along with rules so they can have a career and continue competition. Mma is not real fighting

[@CrazyTom34]

@@davefletch3063 i do not disagree about joint destruction being the goal, we spend a great deal of time refining the breaking mechanics to force taps as athletes in competition will not tap out to a joint lock unless they are at risk of a career alerting injury, I've spoken to several pro grapplers who won't tap to a joint lock unless the joint pops twice. The ultimate goal of any joint lock is to break the limb and of course we don't do it has hard and as fast as we can every day but you can get really close safely with a few exceptions

[@Skallagrim]

When it comes to a lot of knife defense bullshido I 100% see where Ramsey is coming from.

[@CrazyTom34]

@@Skallagrim i do side with you on this, weapons can be sparred with there are just more considerations as they are a force multipler so more effort has to be put towards safety but that doesn't make the training valueless

[@korstmahler]

'You can't go as hard as you can with weapons' M1 medieval has entered the chat - unless the lack of death is the problem, in which case someone needs to let this guy know we don't do to-the-death bloodsports anymore in any field. Also this guy seems to actively confuse armed melee combat with a crackhead stabbing you eighteen times in a dark alley. Once I realized what he was doing, it became a lot easier to parse his opinions. He's not wrong, merely confused as all hell and talking about two things.

[@Fatespinner]

​@@The7thStar They don't need to piss him off. He looks for ways to get exactly what Skall gave him: A response, so he can say he's BEING ATTACKED by his critics. He's the Shad of MMA, except Ramsey actually practices MMA (not WELL, but he does practice) and to my knowledge his hate isn't religious in origin. Virtually all of his videos will indirectly, or occasionally directly attack another martial art or artist. In his purported worldview, the ONLY martial sport is MMA (and only his style, which is to say, no-holds-barred. Everything else is just MMA-but-worse, or trying to be MMA with a twist. I say purported because he ABSOLUTELY has enough experience in the field to know that what he's saying isn't true. He absolutely knows he's lying to get views. He doesn't even care if what he says is harmful. His training gig isn't going well, he's never had any students go pro, he's hurting for money and fame so he... pisses people off on the Internet to play victim.

[@davefletch3063]

He has no clue on real martial arts or combat

[@NikozBG]

@@Fatespinner You clearly don't know Ramsey well enough. He doesn't care about fake KZbin drama and he doesn't make videos just to incite responses for more clicks or whatever, because KZbin is his hobby not his job. Also the only way he and Shad are alike is that both are Mormon. In terms of personality I don't find many similarities at all.

[@Fatespinner]

​@@NikozBG KZbin is his job now. His "training" dojo is a ghost town, his promises empty. "The rules don't protect fighters, they protect your feelings" is literally a video he made recently. ANYONE competent in MMA knows that's not true, rules are there to prevent permanent injury. Kind of funny, though. You're basically doing the same thing he does. You know what you're saying is a bald-faced lie. You just don't care.

[@josku5]

@@FatespinnerIsn’t someone out of touch with reality today? 😂 C’mon gramps, let’s get you your medicine

[@fsmoura]

That's why you go into the woods, take off your shirt, and spar with sharp swords, like those Russians guys Skal covered a while ago.

[@sephy980]

Those guys are nuts lol

[@breaden4381]

They were also German

[@Leubast]

They also weren't doing it to prepare for a real attack, they were purposely getting scarred for "honour points".

[@laughingalex7563]

@@sephy980they ‘were’ nuts, i dunno what happened to them, heard they had to many accidents.

[@richardlionerheart1945]

​​@@Leubastso were they doing like mensur on their chests?

[@IIIAnchani]

as a former soldier I can confidently say that training with guns translates to fighting skills with guns.

[@ErraticFaith]

Having seen the Ukraine frontline and fortunately seen many Ukrainians and the filth that support them put in boxes. I can say confidently, not always. In many cases training means nothing.

[@ArchOfficial]

@@ErraticFaith Filth, as in democratic people with morals?

[@kyleepratt]

@@ErraticFaithoh, so you're just an awful person. Got it.

[@MasterOfBaiter]

"they actually hit eachother with their fists" he says with huge pillows on his hands to not hit the opponent with his actual fists. He says while rolling on mats rather than concrete. All forms of practicing fighting in one way or another take safety into account. This argument is like saying that military training is pointless cause you never do it under the psychological pressure of artillery fire and surpression fire

[@Nightwalk444]

If you hit a guy in the head without gloves you'll break your hand. If you hit a guy in the head with gloves you can go full power without breaking your hand. Bare knuckle boxing is safer than boxing with gloves. Because the damage doesn't come from cuts, it comes from your fist having more momentum and rattling the brain in the skull harder than last time.

[@AdamCeladin]

I hear all the time from Firearm people how knife throwing is soooo useless yet only 0,1 % of gun owners will get in to actually gun fight :D Some people like to think that only weapons that kill instantly without less practice are most practical these days...great Respond Skall!

[@scottbrown411]

"We hit each other with real fists!!" while wearing sparing gloves...

[@Sbv-25]

Gloves are not safety tools. They are weapons. They are only safe for your fingers, but deadly to the opponent

[@TheNEOverse]

@@Sbv-25 Look if you're trying to actually knock someone out in sparring at the gym, then you're likely to get kicked out. MMA sparring and everything has to be done with reasonable safety so as to allow guys to keep on training the next day. If everyone was just being KO'ed we wouldn't have many MMAists left come fight night.

[@Nightwalk444]

If you hit a guy in the head without gloves you'll break your hand. If you hit a guy in the head with gloves you can go full power without breaking your hand. Bare knuckle boxing is safer than boxing with gloves. Because the damage doesn't come from cuts, it comes from your fist having more momentum and rattling the brain in the skull harder than last time.

[@geedee1264]

And knockouts best come off the chin or jaw, so you don't aim for the base of the head, except the temple because it's near the war and impact there fucks up the equilibrium.

[@leonhard.doerflinger]

I don't practice HEMA to be able to defend myself in the street. I practice HEMA because I enjoy it. Also, swords are cool. Edit: I believe Ramsey is not talking about HEMA at all but rather about self-defense.

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

Then he is even ten times more wrong as sparring is a core part of self defense training

[@fsmoura]

I don't practice HEMA to be able to defend myself. I practice HEMA _to be more HEMA_ than the other HEMA practitioners on the internet and then post telling them all they ways they're not HEMA. ( o.o)

[@thisdude9363]

@@fsmoura Don't forget to be on good terms with other swordtubers and even defend them against baseless attacks until they express too many non-left-wing approved opinions, and then you have to dramatically "cut ties" with them. A critical part of any swordtuber these days.

[@SaffronWorldCR]

If he's talking about self defense then BJJ is just as useless. Unless your attacker is willing to sit down good luck doing anything lol.

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

@@SaffronWorldCR To be fair. Nobody expects to be tackled.

[@davefletch3063]

If armed sparring is useless, so is unarmed sparring. Neither are real combat, but then they are not supposed to be. It is just another tool for skill development

[@DC-hw7fw]

It's an as close replication to challenge our learning AND critical thinking skills. That, and swords are f cool.

[@tomwalker8944]

I'd argue that most training outside of firearms is fairy "useless" these days unless you do it for sport or fun.

[@DC-hw7fw]

@@tomwalker8944 Plenty of vids and people taking down attackers to prove you're dead 100% wrong, guy.

[@DC-hw7fw]

@@tomwalker8944 Grappling is always a huge possibility depending on space and where you're engaging.

[@tomwalker8944]

@@DC-hw7fw My counter for that is an inept person with a knife can spent more time practicing shooting and still take most of the MMA roster. As proven by every single video online involving trying to grapple away a knife. It takes a LOT of practice getting good at unarmed combat. It takes very little practice at armed combat to defeat unarmed combat. For the average person practicing unarmed combat is a waste of time. TO be any good at it you need a bit of lots of training, good genetics, good diet, and a shit ton of exercise, and hopeful all of that just doesn't go out the window by some dude being 100 lbs heavier than you are. I'm a fairly large guy at around 6'3'' 240. I don't really care if someone spars twice a month, if I'm twice their size ya know? A 9mm is going to make me back off, as is a blade. I've been stabbed once trying that shit, rather not again, no thanks. I wrestled at a reasonable level in high school, so I'm not entirely inept. That said weapon > not weapon. If it's legal in your area, stay armed if you are worried about self defense.

[@KalteGeist]

This is like listening to someone who has never driven a car telling you that parallel parking is useless. Until you've been behind the wheel Ramsey, you're not qualified.

[@boshirahmed]

I think he means knife fighting. Eg with a punch you can train at least fifty percent power, with a knife you can't even go one percent. However I think he is wrong but not totally as it will never be close to reality. Whilst a punch can be close to reality.

[@anitaremenarova6662]

@@boshirahmed If his arguments ended there that would be fine but he does show and briefly talk about fencing and full armor historical battle recreations. I don't blame him for missing the knowledge of HEMA but his retort is literally just "SPARRING IS NOT THE SAME AS SLAUGHTERING PEOPLE WITH WEAPONS" and then blames other people for making strawmen when they're simply dismantling his misinformed and arrogant points.

[@_heldenklage]

People often forget "martial arts" means "the arts of Mars", i.e.: the arts of war. The very definition of the term implies they are not war itself, so of course the practice and learnings of X art aren't gonna fully translate into a violent scenario without rules. He makes good points, but they are very redundant and, as other people already mentioned, his arguments can easily turn against him. Good video Skall.

[@spaceracer6861]

Cool music uploads

[@gunchar06]

Which is kinda ironic, considering what role Ares usually had in contrast to Athena, which later on then also strongly influenced Minerva. The Arts of Minerva would actually make a lot more sense than the Arts of Mars from a modern point of view.

[@Cavouku]

I'm reminded of-I think it was Ian Laspina who mentioned this-how part of the reason for a hunt in medieval times was to get new soldiers accustomed to the reality of killing a living thing. Of course, livestock farmers and such would have done it, but there would be plenty of those who hadn't actually taken a life greater than a pest before that.

[@underarmbowlingincidentof1981]

I like the idea that people do HEMA to prepare against the chance they'll be jumped by a knight on their way to the car

[@konstantin3374]

No, we train to retake Constantinople and Jerusalem in the name of Christ. Just waiting for the Pope to give us a go signal.

[@underarmbowlingincidentof1981]

@@konstantin3374 my man, there are 15 million people in Istanbul my many. Even if you rally the enemies of the turks (greeks) you'd still be woefully outnumbered!

[@konstantin3374]

@@underarmbowlingincidentof1981 I bet that christian side of Balkans can be convinced to join

[@Yng_Roshi]

Happened to me once man. I was was walking to my car from McDonald's when I suddenly heard "HAVE AT YOU!" and saw knight on a horse charged and almost slashed my head off. It was pretty crazy.

[@memitim171]

I'm trying to work out what his actual argument is but this seems to be it...

[@balazskertesz5010]

What he said about "techniques that work against mild resistance may not work in real life situation" is actually much more true about unarmed combat than weapons. You see, hitting someone hard enough to incapacitate is not easy with bare hands. However, with a sword, you don't have to hit hard at all to cause even potentially lethal damage. You just need to get through the opponent's guard and use proper edge alignment - all things that you can ABSOLUTELY practice in HEMA sparring.

[@tricksterjoy9740]

Getting even a glancing blow from a plastic sword can hurt even when adrenaline is running, even without proper edge alignment, unarmored combat with swords is incredibly dangerous. Pain can distract and even if the pain was momentary and minimal, the split second you take to process it could mean the opponent has an advantage.

[@AnotherDuck]

I was thinking that as well. Weapons make it so much easier to injure or kill someone, so you don't have to go full force to be lethal. In any real life situation you're not likely to encounter anything bigger than a knife, but that's already more than enough.

[@franktower9006]

There's a fight organization in Sweden, called "King of the Streets". They arrange bare-knuckle street fights, even no holds barred fights (including eye gouging). It's pretty safe to say, that most of the fighters have some kind of martial arts backgroung. In training you can't eye gouge your opponent or soccer kick him in the head when he's down - so, why do they bother?

[@AGHORNATH18]

I love KOTS! Should be getting the movie soon from their crowd funding.

[@D.D.-ud9zt]

And you can tell by the way they fight they fight a lot differently than UFC/mma fighters do. There is a lot of crossover as many likely have experience in mma, but nevertheless its different. Fighting stays standing more, and ground fighting is generally only initiated when the wrestler can ensure he will be on top. Being on the bottom is begging for an eye gouge or your head bouncing off the pavement.

[@grumpyolesilverback7211]

Ok. I’m getting tired of this kind of crap. I’m a twenty year vet and my training of my subordinates included, hand to hand, blades, firearms and explosives. You must practice and train for the day you need them for real. This guy could be an expert in his choice means of fighting. I don’t know him or know anything about him. But, his comments tell me he is arrogant and not very worldly for combat. ALL types of combat require practice and sparing. He just made himself look like a complete idiot.

[@funtowngames1523]

Im going to keep this comment here even though i kindof regret writing it now for various reasons. I believe he is an mma coach and was a professional ufc fighter. I think hes a pretty cool guy, but i see where you are coming from and while he had some good points i agree that his video here wasnt that good in my opinion. I really enjoyed him in a youtube series called Ultimate Self-Defense Championship from the youtuber Martial arts journey with Rokas. It might not be your cup of tea though, either way have a good day/ night! PS: This isnt really my wheelhouse and i dont have even close to enough experience to make an adequately knowledgeable opinion.

[@bloodsports94]

He is VERY arrogant. He thinks anything besides kick boxing and bjj is "useless and pointless and doesn't work ever" he's a clown.

[@MrBracey100]

@@bloodsports94Agreed 100 percent. Its why I stopped watching his videos. Ramsey is very close minded when it comes to martial arts and self defense to the point of disrespect.

[@bloodsports94]

​@@funtowngames1523 Btw he's not a professional UFC fighter. He only coaches it, which is kind of hilarious tbh. Also his fight records are pretty bad.

[@bloodsports94]

@@MrBracey100 I don't understand why people can't just learn from other styles and just respect them for what they are good at and understand some styles are better and worse at certain things. As someone who coaches MMA he should know this but he doesn't, which is a BAD sign for a coach.

[@ozramblue117]

Excellent reaction. You were respectful and made your points with clarity. Need more of that all around!

[@fsmoura]

0:14 _"...I'm gonna break all my swords"_ Careful with the katanas, you'll probably just get yourself cut, as they don't break.

[@LuxisAlukard]

He'll use katana to break all other weapons he owns

[@zerberus_ms]

​@@LuxisAlukardDo you actually want the reality as we know it to be destroyed??! Don't even say that jokingly!

[@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812]

Katanas do break/bend. As well as can be cut in half with a much higher quality blade. Js

[@MaxLoafin]

​@@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812 you're a sharp one, eh?

[@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812]

@@MaxLoafin sharp one, "smart ass" however you want to characterize it lol

[@MinionofNobody]

In my opinion, the problem with any type of sparring is that most of the people who engage in it have never been in a real fight. Even MMA has rules and limitations. Real fights do not have rules. Historically, fighting techniques got tested at least occasionally on the battlefield. A fighter would return from combat and have a tendency to eliminate from practice and sparring those techniques that did not work in combat. The desire to stay alive on the battlefield provided an incredible incentive to keep training realistic. For the vast majority of people who train in martial arts, this never happens. As a result, martial arts training becomes increasingly more unrealistic over the course of generations. I am a retired cop. I trained intensively in several Asian martial arts before and after I joined a police department. I was in a lot of real fights at work including some in which I fought unarmed against suspects armed with weapons. These fights never worked like things do in training. It is common for martial arts techniques to fail or to work imperfectly in a real fight. Unarmed techniques against weapons tend to be especially unrealistic. The best suggestion I can give to any martial artist is that you have to be prepared to get hurt and, in many cases, hurt seriously and still be able to continue fighting. You have to be able to compartmentalize your knowledge that you are hurt and set it aside until a fight is over. Truthfully, I never escaped unscathed from a real fight. At the very least, I had to deal with scrapes, bruises, strained muscles, and torn uniforms.

[@SaffronWorldCR]

The best martial art for real life is doing cardio and running.

[@HiragamaIkunai]

@@SaffronWorldCRlearning how to fight is also essential you can't always run away and knowing how to do something to a second nature or instinct level helps in those moments you have no choice sometimes running isn't the answer.

[@barryelverson9486]

Well, Skall you could switch to hitting each other with hockey sticks like a typical Canadian. Anybody asks, you’re just playing hockey. Almost worked for me as a kid.

[@DGE123]

gotta use toothpicks only gonna take an eye out! lol

[@Lil_LiIy]

the manuals we're written by people who fought to death or first blood, so the techniques do work, we can apply them almost exactly like they're used to, the only difference is that we can't know for sure that the way we did was 100% exactly because we can't measure correctly if the intended outcome would be the same. but as we know they worked, we can train to use them to the best of our habilities trough sparring. all in all weapon weapon sparring is not useless otherwise we wouldn't have registers from hundreds of years of that being done.

[@flamezombie1]

You beat me to this video damn you! Yes, HEMA has issues with weapon simulators. But you’ll still be better than somebody who doesn’t practice at all. Much, much better.

[@sentinelmoonfang]

So I haven't been in 'the real thing.' That said, I've been pretty close. I've taken a number of first aid courses and a few years back I was first to respond to a shooting and gave first aid to the victim until police and paramedics arrived. It was not like the training I'd had. It was horrible. However, the training that I had still applied. Repeating things and drilling them into your mind, helps you to do those things under pressure when you might not have the presence of mind to consciously recall something you're not trained to do. The 'it's not the same' argument is bullshit. It still helps.

[@matthewsoares2824]

I think the largest difference comes from the fact it is impossible to replicate what would realistically happen in a weapons combat AFTER the first injury or hit. Sparring or rolling unarmed can replicate exhausting or physically beating an opponent to wear them out over time and you can learn through practice how long that takes and how it plays out with various opponents. Unfortunately, but quite obviously, just how impactful a weapons blow is and how an opponent may be compromised and/or continue to fight after the first hit is a blind spot of weapons training that I don't think we have any good answer for.

[@occasionalart7597]

Honestly I could see this issue being more or less impossible to solve without actually injuring people unless and until some sort of advanced VR simulations get developed

[@alexanderglass2057]

@@occasionalart7597 I mean you can replicate the pain of being stabbed with some of the taser/ tense unit feedback suits. Unironically the OWO suit is the best bang for the buck as far as making someone feel like they’re injured.

[@korstmahler]

I think you've answered your own question. Being hit, even in armor takes some energy out of you. In historical context people wore armor too, and so effectively the risk of injury from hits to unarmored zones is the same as grappling/unarmed sparring. It really sucks to be hit where the jacket and guards don't protect, and they take even more out of you. It's effectively the same level of simulation provided by rolling on the mats, since you're not allowed to break limbs, tear tendons, bite, or stomp on the head in grapple sparring. HEMA sparring is similarly prevented from pulling out a real Rondel dagger and jamming it between the ABS plates of your opponent. Edit: I should specify I refer to sparring with blunt steel. The plastic blades are pretty much just for getting a feel for a weapon and trying out moves in a controlled training situation in my opinion.

[@occasionalart7597]

@@alexanderglass2057 That is a good point, although I feel like that still wouldn't be able to realistically simulate the sensations and limitations of receiving broken bones, severed tendons and muscles. Also on a less serious note they really could've chosen any other name

[@SaffronWorldCR]

You can't replicate war (and why would you?) but you can get closer to duels. Duels were illegal in most countries and for the bigger part of history, so people tried not to kill each other, that's why you have so many styles designed to put your rival in an impossible/surrender situation and only actually kill them if they tried to keep pushing. If you look at Verdadera Destreza you can get pretty close to the technique in sparring.

[@korstmahler]

Oh I get it now; Not only has this guy confused a back alley stabbing with HEMA, he's projecting his own -macho 'violence prepper' mentality- Rephrased: [belief that all training is for eventual violent use] onto HEMA nerds. -Cue the aloof smugness of "violence is real guys, remember that". Gee, thanks Captain Obvious.- Rephrased [It's a bit insulting that he's coming at HEMA practitioners with the obvious here.] We never thought that being cut apart with a sword might suck a little more than playing a game with rules in a ring.

[@Skallagrim]

I think you're being too hard on him there. It's not smug to emphasize the brutal reality, just realistic. Just imagine how many keyboard warriors and couch commandos he must have talked to, who think fighting is like movies and video games where they're the main character.

[@perceivedvelocity9914]

You should watch his videos before you judge his character. He is a good guy who isn't out to discredit you. It's just a conversation, not an attack.

[@Turigamot]

@@Skallagrim Skall, I must call you out for this comment, specifically for the "weekend warriors" bit. "Weekend warriors" refers to military reservists, and many of them have seen active combat (at least, in the US), and many reservists are people who were full active duty at one point. They are definitely *not* people who act tough yet don't know what the real world is like.

[@ruchz2010]

@@Turigamot That's more commonly just the colloquial term for somebody that engages in an activity, any activity, primarily in their spare time. It's not a dig at reservists.

[@korstmahler]

​@@Skallagrim You're right. I'm being too harsh and judging too quickly. I should realise I'm not the target of his moral point, and people still need to be told those things. I should be focusing on his statements related to sparring. I think I'm having a bad morning and it's affecting my mood.

[@fsmoura]

0:16 _"F**k it! We'll do it live!!"_

[@shawnespinoza9300]

Most of the training you receive in the military is to prepare you mentally. Get to a point where you can automatically react without thinking. Most of my training I was thinking, “what’s the point?”. Turns out when you are suddenly fired upon your body reacts before your mind comprehends what is going on. While in Afghanistan I was on a foot patrol when we started taking fire. In the blink of an eye, and before even forming a thought in my head, I found myself on the ground with my weapon up pointed in the direction of the shooter. That came with training. Stupid worthless training, I thought, but effective. That is all one can do to prepare and give yourself a better chance for survival than you otherwise might have.

[@JustinWolfe-s9j]

The craziest thing about this take from Ramsey is like he knows Icy Mike who does actively train in weapons and does see success in extreme pressure testing (see the self-defense challenge they both participated in). Obviously people should avoid armed conflict as much as possible but I think alive training, familiarity with weapons, "playing" with these various objects gives you a definite advantage. I like the Dog Brothers saying; "die less often" Also whatever playing with swords is fun, I think maybe ol "a blast at parties" Ramsey is just mad his MMA event had armored combat in it 😂

[@JustinWolfe-s9j]

The majority of my formal training is in boxing btw and like, your point about gloves is super valid. I have hurt my hand through 16oz gloves and some defensive techniques are kinda bad for bare knuckle I do think weapons people cross training in modern sport arts is a good plan though. It definitely has things to teach and it's also a hell of a lot of fun

[@AztecUnshaven]

Dog Brothers would mop the floor with Ramsey.

[@JustinWolfe-s9j]

@@AztecUnshaven I can't say, Ramsey is definitely an accomplished fighter, he'd definitely whoop my ass 😂 Id love to see him do some colabs exploring his ideas about weapon arts though! Watching some other martial arts KZbinrs do this and challenge some of their preconceived notions about other arts over the last few years has been refreshing! I believe fostering mutual respect and understanding is key and that extends beyond martial arts

[@pekojounin]

First rule my martial arts sensei taught me? “If a person asks for your wallet, give throw them the wallet and run”

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

Yep. All of it can be replaced. Your life? Not so much

[@razumikhim]

Honestly if im about to get mugged,id give them to money and beg them to let me keep my documents That shit takes WAAAAY too much time to get replacements for

[@aliceakosota797]

Running is good you can also wear armor modern armor is light and conceals good .. just in case

[@underarmbowlingincidentof1981]

@@The7thStar and to keep distance to people that might have a knife. No amount of training can defend yourself from a close quarter knife attack. That thing is gonna be in and our of your body half a dozen times before you can even hope to react.

[@Aquilenne]

Is that a thing that happens these days? Most of the people I know don't usually carry cash to mug.

[@petersmythe6462]

Curious what this guy thinks fighter pilots should do to become proficient with their aircraft in combat, given that firing live cannon ammo and live armed thermal-guided or radar-guided missiles at each other is obviously way too dangerous.

[@devin5201]

Lmao imagine the COST too like I'm no military expenses expert or anything but something tells me that those giant bullets and missiles aren't cheap, even less so the actual aircraft.

[@petersmythe6462]

I think fuel and wear on the airframes is more expensive than 20mm ammo, but a modern Aim-9 is like $600,000. A modern Amraam is like $900,000. No idea what flare and chaff countermeasures cost. Aircraft themselves are like $30M at absolute minimum to replace, and easily get to double or triple that.

[@Wingzero90939]

Not to mention, just training those pilots to begin with, Chris Hadfield the astronaut who used to be a fighter pilot for the Canadian Air Force said that so many guys died just in training accidents. Adding live weapons would be so much worse.

[@notapplicable2515]

Exactly, bare knuckle is real different than boxing ...

[@tadmrozowski5260]

lol love it when the channels i watch are having a crossover.

[@fsmoura]

*fight

[@spaceracer6861]

@@fsmoura*duel

[@KeyserSoze23]

Not a crossover the opposite as they are feuding.

[@memeticist]

I guess the military should abandon all firearms training because you can't actually have a real gunfight in training.

[@MP-db9sw]

Sparring IS pressure testing. The contact he makes with his sparring videos is usually light. He has talked about not going full full contact in sparring in his own videos.

[@jamesalexander8193]

If he thinks weapon training is so stupid because the reality is so much worse then why does every army in history and current train their soldiers? You can take weapon training to an extreme like airsoft guns, room breaches, blanks being fired in the background, real smoke and pig guts for smell and some degree of horror of real war. But that won't prepare you for having to fire real rounds at people or what it's like to be really in a life or death situation but that training helps prepare you for it, if your going to war having new soldiers at 80% compared to the seasoned vets is still going to do more good for them than not. His arguments has a lot of flaws like all those fights he's doing in the ring are just one on one and how many moves are banned? In the street if you go down your hitting concrete not a padded floor, and real fights are messy clawing eye poking and biting are all fair game. And just because he doesn't have a knife doesn't mean it's hand to hand, keys can be used as knuckle dusters to some degree, beer bottles become clubs even a fist full of dirt becomes pepper spray

[@jhor8113]

One thing I will say is that armed sparring does struggle to replicate the caution you have to take in an actual dual. You generally see a far more aggressive sort of fighting in HEMA clubs and competitions than is suggested in the sources, often to the detriment of some historical techniques.

[@flamezombie1]

This - there's very little to no regard for your own safety in tournaments especially. People will leap at the chance to thrust into a zwerch, even if it means they'll eat a double or an afterblow on the merits of 'but I might land a hit, too'. In reality, there's no bracket reset. Now you're both dead or maimed.

[@soulsuckingginger7535]

Yeah, when I first started fencing epee, I was surprised by how casual everyone was about getting hit or double points because my whole approach to swordsmanship is hit the other guy without getting hit. But in fencing, the other guy just gets a point, so It really does breed a far less defensive style of fighting than something like kendo. And while most fencers I know are extremely skilled swordsmen, put them in a historical duel to first blood or death and they would get destroyed just because of their lack of defensive danger sense

[@purgeutopia8696]

​@@flamezombie1 To be perfectly fair. It wasn't uncommon in duels, especially duels with rapiers, often resulting in both duelists dying in the end.

[@flamezombie1]

@@purgeutopia8696 Yes that’s very true, Meyer even shows what to do if you’ve been stabbed by a spear but are still standing. He also warns against “hitting without taking”, that is, just striking immediately to any openings without regard to what your opponent is doing.

[@BlackWingedSeraphX]

Can't believe Skall is responding to another guy I watch! lmao xD

[@aabe4327]

ramsey is one of those that lives in the delusion that the sport mma is representative of actual fighting and not a sport. And from that perspective he sits on his high horse and just judges all other martial arts around him instead of trying to understand. He built his whole channel around the "mma good, other things bad" circlejerk.

[@miesvaillanykyisyytta3252]

I politely disagree. For example he made a whole video on taido that was very respectful. Nobody can pin down what "fighting" is so the debate gets really murky there but what we do know is that every time a mystical for-the-streets-guy tries his best against a MMA guy the MMA guy schools him. Every single time. It's not just a difference of sparring either but that a lot of the ideas in traditional martial arts are outdated and should be seen as cultural heritage rather than contemporary science. People that hide behind 'real fighting' are almost without exception nerds who live out fantasies in their heads (fantasies cannot be shattered by reality as they are never tested) and their claim to fame is sucker punching some black-out drunk guy in a bar in their prime. I'm literally reciting a real life example of a kung-fu expert and out of respect to the guy I'm not spelling names. Now I would agree that there is arrogance in the MMA community as well and people can be obnoxious but that mostly has to do with things like overemphasizing the significance of technique relative to size. Their confidence in their ability to trash antiquated martial arts is largely based in experience.

[@nosrin1988]

"Do you wear boxing gloves in a street fight? No? Then your entire argument is invalid."

[@itskarl7575]

In other videos, Ramsey has spoken out against going all-out in sparring, so he is definitely wearing some effective blinders here.

[@claytucker5025]

Sparring itself is limited, the objective is to SIMULATE combat and techniques. Sparring with or without weapons is much the same, though. In both cases you do not want to maim and kill your partner, so you have to hold back. In bare knuckle boxing you don't throw the strongest punch, because you will break your hand and also might wind up killing your partner, in weapon sparing you don't swing for the fences because it will do the same (killing your partner, not breaking your hand.....unless....?)

[@charlesvincent4127]

Law enforcement use simunitions. Definition: Simunition, short for simulated ammunition, refers to replacement ammunition designed for training purposes. These rounds are specifically crafted to mimic the weight, feel, and functionality of live ammunition, providing a highly realistic training experience. Simunition is non-lethal and non-toxic. It comes in various calibers and fires rounds with a muzzle energy of up to 5.6 joules (for reference, an airsoft 0.2g BB at 328fps is 1 joule) 12. Applications: Simunition is commonly used in law enforcement, military, and security training scenarios. It allows trainees to practice firearm handling, target acquisition, and tactical maneuvers in a controlled environment without the risks associated with live ammunition. By using simunition, professionals can enhance their skills, test decision-making under pressure, and simulate real-world scenarios. Remember, simunition is a valuable tool for realistic training, ensuring safety while maintaining effectiveness.

[@mizukarate]

The main thing is to just keep training and just be honest about what we are doing.

[@LuxisAlukard]

I'm pretty sure Shads title will be more dramatic, with his screaming face on a thumbnail. But I prefer Skalls take on this kind of topics :)

[@spaceracer6861]

''This MMA FIGHTER said WHAT about OUR MOTHERS?!?!?!?!?''

[@danielomar9712]

And then Shad would go on a 2 hour tangent with his double bladed zweihander abomination lmao

[@Scuzzlebutt142]

God, his mugging face on every thumbnail needs to stop, it is really off putting. Not that I watch his videos anymore, but it always annoyed me to see when I did.

[@thisdude9363]

Shad lives rent free in a lot of people's heads. I think its time we dub Shad Derangement Syndrome a thing.

[@spaceracer6861]

''Man, butts are the butt of so many jokes, people must have butt living rent free in their heads!!!''

[@ididthisonpulpous6526]

Well when I was in the Army we did, and many units still do, use the equivalent of Laser Tag for training. It's called MILES gear and one can argue it wasn't totally realistic, but it is considered a very useful tool in learning to use your unit and individual combat skills. Every generation of warrior/soldier all the way back used weapon sparring to learn to fight. Is it "real" no. Nobody believes it's real, but it is useful at making yourself a better fighter.

[@CheshireAndTales]

"Armed Sparing is pointless..." Coming from a guy that wears modern cestus.

[@help_27]

If you're using an executioner's sword, sure.

[@naherathe]

thats a golden one kudos

[@johndododoe1411]

Executioner's swords and other weapons are only good against a pacified prisoner . For example, there's no tip on the sword and the axe is too heavy to swing against someone who dodges the blows .

[@cobraglatiator]

ha, i get it.

[@swissarmyknight4306]

No sparring is real, LMAO. If it was real we'd be killing, maiming, and crippling each other even in wrestling. The purpose of sparring is to practice applying techniques against a resisting opponent, and HEMA is among the more "real" martial arts I've found in the world. I can personally verify that you can do pressure testing with weapons; in the US Army we use blank rounds, MILES gear (literally 'laser tag"), training exercises on various scales, and target practice with live rounds. There really isn't a way to prepare for life and death combat, but sparring and the like are the closest you can get. There's a reason that there is a vast difference between green troops and veterans; there is no way to train for a life and death adrenaline dump, but you can get used to it with exposure. Its probably best for your mental health and well-being that you don't gain this experience. Historically, swordsmen "sparred" in ways that are very similar to what we do today, including people who actually killed with live blades. Smug guy with deep voice doesn't know what he doesn't know. All these types have unnamed, not-present "friends who were in actual war" (in the "super secret underwater parachute tank battalion"), but strangely have never done it themselves, but they WILL tell me all about what war is "actually" like. Iraq 04, got wounded, disabled by combat PTSD, keyboard warrior with camera is talking out his ass. This weirdo JKD instructor was super critical of grappling (due to not knowing much), thought I was just some "HEMA/fencing nerd" (because I don't go bragging and acting like a tough guy and I am a nerd), and had no idea that HEMA was the fourth martial art I'd studied over the course of my 20 years (at the time) or that I had actual experience fighting (difficult youth). He was insistent that he could bite his way out of a grappling situation, and living in his fantasy world, wanted to demonstrate (I stifled my evil laughter). He put himself on the bottom in side control (!), with me on the side of his right arm (I worked harder to suppress my evil laughter). He put his teeth on my neck, and I said "Okay, begin". I grabbed his right testicle with my right hand and applied the most gentle pressure (I can crack walnuts with my sword hand, but I was being nice), and suddenly his mouth opened and he momentarily lost strength involuntarily due to testicle pressure (surprise surprise). I went knee on belly and mounted him, and easily caught a figure 4 arm lock on his left arm (BJJ calls it "Kimura"). I could have easily broken his arm, and I don't care who you are, spiral fracture of the humerus is going to be decisive even if you don't go into shock since your arm is now useless. His retort was "you wouldn't have thought to do that in an actual fight", which made me laugh since foul tactics in grappling are my go to if I have to actually fight, foul tactics work great *only if you know fundamental techniques*, and I'm quite aware of the mental impacts of combat stress, since I'm an actual combat veteran (again, I don't advertise this) and the guy is just some Rex Qwon Do goober. These types always come across like that, like THEY know all about "real fighting", but if they've ever fought it was sparring or a sporting context, which are valid ways to prepare, but they act like they're "seasoned warriors" but all their "real" fights (if they've even done them) had a referee, or were just them bullying some guy at a bar. I've had professionals and wild-eyed amateurs try to kill me, but constantly have to listen to people like this guy talk down to me about "actual combat" which they have never even been near. I can't help but imagine them wearing US flag pants.

[@swissarmyknight4306]

BOW TO YOUR SENSEI

[@timberwolfmountaineer873]

Agree with you. No matter how bad it sucks to be punched in the head and have your low kicks countered to the point where you get that dull headache and sore shins, and overheating, and hyperventilation i always know that at some point the timer is going to ring and i can recollect myself and rest. I never "armed sparred" but i don't see much difference between full contact KB and full force wooden sword sparring(or whatever it's called) in terms of "realism". Temporary pain and fatigue but ultimately stakes are sufficiently low for you to be able to concentrate on technique. Neither are life or death situations. Also Ramsey's logic is unclear to me, what is his proposition? to stop training outside of classical martial arts, because "it's pointless"? Kinda unintelligent advice if you ask me, any sports activity is better than no activity. I don't get what he's trying to prove.

[@swissarmyknight4306]

@@timberwolfmountaineer873 Having done both, with competent training partners and proper gear, in HEMA the brain injuries are far less severe and extremely infrequent. I sustained one hit that clouded my head in five years of "full contact" sparring 3-5 hours a week (same rules and level of contact as a competition), comparable to a jab that snaps your head back, and that was a rare freak occurrence. The bruises are more superficial and in different places, but its basically the same thing. The big risk in HEMA is broken thumbs, and I've heard they have better gloves for that these days. The main thing I like about HEMA is that you can spar every class and expect to walk away tired and only lightly bruised. In 10 years, I never had a student have to go to the hospital. Worst injuries I sustained were repetitive motion tendonitis and I lost a fingernail (it grew back lol). Far fewer injuries than grappling or kickboxing, and its great exercise.

[@SomnathRoyGrimfangs]

Something that I wanted to add to this video was that for gunfight training, some training facilities use Simulation rounds that are supposed to crumple and turn to dust on impact. Of course, they use protective gear with that as well as that's still quite dangerous to use. Or so I've heard.

[@zombiefinatic7033]

Dont know about those but I know use of Simunitions, paint bullets with a live primer and *possibly* have gunpowder, I dont remember, but they are very dangerous paintballs and very very good for force on force training.

[@SomnathRoyGrimfangs]

@@zombiefinatic7033 Oh yeah, I think I've seen those as well!

[@BluegrassKnight]

Nobody trains at the same level that they would be preforming at in combat, nor is it always needed and depending on the level of danger involved in the type of combat your training for, will dictate how hard you can train for it, also protective gear only helps increase the level of danger you're in while training! Someone in no armor, practicing with blunts would technically be in more danger than someone practicing boxing with no head gear and only wearing gloves, so it's really up to what you're training for and how hard you want to go with it!

[@TheDOS]

The difference between almost any “assault on the street” and almost any sparring/competition is consent. Both combatants are agreeing to fight within some limits. This is mostly why the absolute best self defense is “run away” and that’s not usually a valid technique in competition/sparring.

[@Wingzero90939]

I mean, he’s not entirely wrong, but let’s also look at the base demographics for each sport, no matter if it’s Taekwondo, MMA, Brazilian jujitsu, Muay Thai, or Judo. The vast majority of people who trained in all of these sports are not professional athletes, they don’t do this for a living. It’s a hobby they may be do it once or twice a week also maybe on the weekend. So basically, you cannot make a living as a HEMA competitor the same way you can with MMA. So the motivation for someone to go that hard-core into the sport really isn’t there. That being said the amount of hard-core training you do at the gym since the majority of people who do it are just doing it just for fun it’s not going to be very high. Normal people can’t be going home with concussions, or be doing full contact sparring all the time, especially if their job is to be like a teacher, lawyer, doctor etc.. So the majority of people will never experience combat sports to the extent that Ramsey has doing it for a living and fighting professionally. So, by enlarge, other than for some of the more popular combat sports, in which you can make money, boxing and MMA, you also receive the damage for it. The training for the average person isn’t going to be that realistic because it wouldn’t be sustainable that way and there really isn’t a monetary benefit for taking that kind of damage. No new students would stick around that long if they were going home with bruises, concussions, or taking general damage on a weekly basis. The IBJJF the international Brazilian jujitsu Federation, as well as Judo both have changed the rules of crap ton to make them safer, and for Judo to be an Olympic sport as well. Judo banned a lot of throws even if we just go back to the 1960s due to what they considered dangerous. Since they want more people to compete in the sport, and they want it to be popular. The more dangerous a sport is the less people will want to do it. Even the majority of people who training MMA will never probably have a full contact cage, fight, other than maybe a couple of amateur matches. Also, may be an inter-club tournament. The need to face potential danger has to exist, as well as some sort of profitability as to why you would endure the risk.

[@christopherrowley7506]

No gloves, concrete floor, unknown number of assailants, possibility of enemy being armed, crowded environment (people, furniture etc); yeah MMA doesn't correlate at all to a real fight. But that doesn't make it useless by any means. I don't know why Ramsey thinks HEMA would be any different.

[@themyrmidon2181]

Edged weapons (sword) are an extension of the body's skeletal structure. That is a physiological fact. "Sparring" trains the body to perform in an athletic competition. If Dewey wants to fight empty-handed against a trained swordsman with blade in hand then there's something wrong with his brain, eh.

[@VictoriousNerd]

I followed Ramsey for a while. He's a good journeyman level fighter that one day realized he gets more attention by saying dumb stuff on the internet. I wouldn't take him too seriously anymore. I don't.

[@tcup3946]

The physics are completely different. James Williams, CRKT designer and SEAL knife trainer stated. Body alignment and training with bare hand combat and weapon combat training are 2 completely different things.

[@boris1986]

Always like you "Response Videos" because of so much thoughtfulness. Also, I love puns (albeit, I can't make a good one even if my life depended on it) and you are really a PunMaster :D You are doing awesome work, for all those year, I just hope you can push through.

[@grindory]

I like swords

[@Seething-Fox]

I like pikes

[@procow2274]

I like axes

[@aspiringmarauder666]

Me too

[@Sr_ECO]

I like hammers

[@Sr_ECO]

​@@procow2274same

[@virgyvirgil]

muy Thai kickboxing in Thailand is light sparring only and it gives the experience and career longevity as you don't experience that many injuries while training and they are considered some of the best forms of striking in the world

[@TheNEOverse]

On the other hand, they fight as many times as tennis players have matches, so they have a great deal of actual fight experience.

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

Sparring was the only reason I stopped flinching away from hits. I now however have to refrain from grabbing the person if they move too quickly towards me, but I think that was part of the reason why sparring is done. Reaction time

[@skyereave9454]

And training the correct reactions too. A lot of our instinctual reactions aren't correct for combat. Like sprawling to stuff a take down attempt. Our instincts are made to help us regain balance, not throw our legs out and put our hips down for example roght?

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

@@skyereave9454 Yep. And unlearning breaking your fall with your hand, which will ruin your wrists. Instead learning to fall in a way that can break your momentum or hurt you as little as possible and ensure you get back up quicker. Another instinct we have is to turn our head away, which is not useful in a fight for various reasons. Some people have a tendency to try and turn around and shrink in to shield their face and stomach. Especially when the hits come hard and fast. You really have to train yourself to not want to curl up but to weather them and stay ready for an opening to get away

[@josephalexander3155]

So the Great Roman Empire got it wrong. The Roman legionnaires trained with practice weapons both on a pell and sparring with each other. Question for Ramsey dewery why did they engage in such useless activities?

[@robertoprestigiacomo253]

I have practiced competitively in kickboxing for 10 years before stopping and then starting HEMA (years later) so I have both experiences and in short, he's wrong and the reason is ignorance and the mindset of BJJ/MMA. Those guys have become extremely elitists and always eager to crap on other disciplines. My time in Kickboxing taught me that it's in general a very common attitude in the martial arts and fighting sport world to think that your discipline is the best but in MMA and BJJ this has reached the next level. Whenever I see a BJJ/MMA dude grumpily set on crapping on another sport, I already know they have nothing interesting or educated to say. When then we reach the point where a guy with a considerable experience in martial arts dumbs down himself by comparing it with "the street", I just stop listening. On the other hand, HEMA suffers from a lack of organization worldwide which causes other sports to see us like a bunch of silly nerds playing with toys in some park, and it's true that there are many people like that in HEMA (just like there are a lot of wannabe McGregor idiots in MMA) but I have sparred and competed in both HEMA and Kickboxing and it's the same experience (a bit more fun in HEMA because there we have more fun, respect, and less competitive rivalry). The same feelings are there in competitions, the same things go through your mind in sparring, fightin technicalities and analysis are extremely close to the point that it even surprised me when I started HEMA. And by the way, in Kinckboxing I never had a broken bone in 10 years, in HEMA I had 3 fissures in my ribs in my first 1.5 years, this pushed me to work really hard to increase my defense ability against another sword even though I know a blunt one is not going to chop me or run through me.

[@sloesty]

Part one of training is muscle memory. If you need to think"oh, i parried low, so now i have to do this" it will never work. You need that shit on autopilot. That is.what dry training is for. Just get those reps in. Part two is being able to make those decisions under pressure. Thats what sparring is for. Yes, the real thing is different, but its comparable to fighting game tournaments. Part one: practice the combo. Part two: get it off in a real fight scenario. Part three: keep calm enough in a tournament to pull it off again.

[@Deltarious]

The military training aspect I think is most directly relevant for this. Let's be clear: The ultimate purpose of combat training for infantry is to teach them how to kill other people with guns and the tactics to go along with that. Militaries have spent a whole lot of time and effort figuring out how you can teach that without having to get shot at for real, and it turns out you *can* teach it to quite a proficient degree with high quality training. Yes, some of the experience you can only get 'for real' but we see a *large* difference in infantry quality between nations that can only come from training differences, so we know that it works. For complex things that are dangerous to do 'for real' you often have to do it in sections- how to handle a weapon, how to hit static targets, how to hit dynamic targets, then how to stay calm under pressure, how to stay calm while being shot at, how you should move and support your team, and so on. Then you can bring all those skills together into a cohesive whole to use them 'for real' right out of the gate, with a fairly large degree of confidence that you can handle it and not be useless in real combat. Edit: About 'pressure testing' there is a reason militaries host giant exercises that functionally serve as a kind of 'final exam' where you are more or less literally playing 'adult laser tag' except you have relatively realistic sights and sounds of combat. We can't have them shoot at eachother for real, but the shooting part is a lot less important than the pressure and environment. We *know* we can teach troops to shoot well, we just need them to be able to shoot well while under extreme levels of stress, and exposing them to it is a great way to reinforce their mental training against said stess Edit 2: Yea, we are pretty good at turning people into weapons but not so good at re-integrating them into society

[@bdk336]

Lots' of other good arguments in the comments but I think it's good to emphasize something: one reason weapon sparring often stops the moment someone solidly connects with an important body part is because it's generally assumed that blow would have either ended the fight or crippled the opponent and it gives you a healthy respect for the other guy's ability to murder you. Sparring is also the reason I am absolutely terrified of getting in a knife fight. Most of the knife spars I've seen/done ended something along the lines of "Okay you are definitely dead and you might live if you get immediate medical care."

[@Bladerunner39]

“I don’t want to get too political”, arguing that we should be putting more resources into making sure that veterans who come home after risking life and limb for their country don’t end up homeless isn’t a political argument, it’s a moral argument, and anyone arguing against it has a clear lack of empathy and gratitude.

[@crashlvmc]

The military, and probably some police departments, do use "sim rounds". They are a cartridge with a compressed gas instead of gun powder and a plastic bullet with a scored tip and filled with paint. They work in the short range basically like a real bullet. They will break skin and go through clothing (which sucked because i had to buy a new uniform). I'm not saying they are the same thing, but it's pretty close, and unlike standard paint ball it really really hurts and you will bleed. The bullets will also go through some cover, unlike paint balls that break in a stiff breeze. Long story short, the military is trying to make it as realistic as possible without permanent injury. Because more realistic is better. Although, militaries trained for ever war before the latest without it, and it was good enough.

[@Skallagrim]

Ah, I didn't know about those. That's interesting.

[@victoriouspancake]

Learning about the fact you can use /feed/subscriptions to make YT showcase subbed channels only has allowed me to watch more Skallagrim than ever in what...8 years Silly algorithms keeping up away from great stuff

[@madaxe606]

OF COURSE its impossible to perfectly replicate 'live' training with swords, spears, etc. But the idea that non-lethal sparring isn't even 'remotely' close is just silly. Footwork, guard positions, technique, establishing range etc are all essential skills and can be repeatedly tested and refined in sparring.

[@AlexanderLayko]

4:15 "Instant bone snaps" for the most part are a meme and the reason we don't see more of them in MMA or BJJ is because that's not how fighting works between people intelligently defending themselves. They're perfectly legal btw.

[@Skallagrim]

Right, if the other guys knows grappling and actively tries to prevent you from doing the thing you may just have to gradually overpower his resistance with superior positioning and leverage. Although some accidental injuries I've seen are exactly that kind of sudden snap. Either way the combat application would be break, not submit.

[@nikolab.4065]

I see only bad arguments from both sides. Goku trained martial arts his whole life and he still managed to die *twice*

[@Amalvipls]

Does Ramsey believe people who fought in antiquity with weapons didn't train or spar because its pointless and not close enough to real fights? or that they trained/learned by going real with sharpened weapons? what is he trying to say?

[@fsmoura]

6:53 _"Gunfights aren't fun"_ Not if you're losing

[@skyereave9454]

This guy gets it.

[@johnracine4589]

Not with that attitude!

[@splatninja9447]

Yep. Been in exactly one firefight in my entire life. It's not something I'm willing to repeat, but it was the most fun I've ever had. Yes the police were notified (we embraced that old pirate tradition, we fought to run away) it was a self defense effort.

[@LadyNari773]

they aren't fun if your winning either if you have a normal and healthy human brain with a sense of empathy of compassion.

[@brycenall4410]

tell that to all the veterans who "won" and are scarred for life. you might not be well in the head.

[@ZeroXSEED]

The thing is no matter how skilled you are, fighting unarmored always to be risky business with death as acceptable income. Like Portuguese sailors fighting random dethroned samurai, both usually just have the cloth on their body, the fatality rate is almost 100% on both sides. Calling combat practice useless is going to have you chewed by Drill Sergeant and Police instructors. Also, military HAS developed least lethal ammo like simunition precisely to practice safe but realistic firefight.

[@coulombs465]

Saying armed martial arts is useless in a real fight is on the same level as saying that MMA is useless in a real fight, it's just dumb.

[@kamo7293]

2:12 this is an excellent point, in trying to deconstruct the sparring he hates he has not realised the same logic can be spun back on to him

[@siprus]

2:18 to be honest it's even bigger issue with boxing with gloves and bare knuckle-fighting. Boxer can easily break their hand if they just punch someone as they would do in a ring. It's not unusual for boxers to break their hands when they get in street fights, because they just fight too hard. Bare-knuckle boxers fight very very differently in practice and emphasize a lot less protecting the head.

[@hurrdurrmurrgurr]

Sparring with melee weapons doesn't train you for being attacked by a guy with a knife since people don't walk around with their sword (except for sikhs). But in the same way training MMA isn't going to help you against the knife guy either. It can help you if they challenge you to a fist fight but most people who want to throw hands are cowards, they're going to punch you in the back of the head and even if you do square up you still don't know if they actually have a knife on them. Anyone who trains in MMA or HEMA and gets confident about street fights is going to end up in the hospital.

[@exploatores]

I am former Military. the problem is that anyone that thinks that their martial art is the best. give the Hema practicier a Pool Cue and Ramsey might have to meet a Emergency nurse. their is a reason why you don´t use live rounds in double sided military exercises.

[@sarinhighwind]

And just gonna throw the gunfight stuff in there because some people overseas might not know as you talked about paintball, but we have simmunition over here. You can go to schools and learn proper techniques in training where you shoot live simunition rounds at each other. They hurt like a sombitch and you have to wear a mask obviously, but yes, the military and civilians here train with simunition in a really controlled environment cause.. well its still dangerous.

[@TheGuzeinbuick]

My guess is when this guy imagined "aggravated assault with a weapon," he imagined getting jumped and knifed in a dark alley. Which isn't really what HEMA is about.

[@LRaber123]

9:32 a bunch of MMA/self defence KZbinrs including Ramsey took part in a tournament based around exactly this, making these scenarios as realistic as possible (still with full safety gear and mock weapons of course) just to try and simulate the stress and difficulty of these scenarios. Great watch and very entertaining if you have any interest. Self defence championship I believe.

[@LuxisAlukard]

On Martial Arts Journey channel

[@Skallagrim]

Yes, I've seen it. Which is why I was a little surprised by this video.

[@TheLithp]

@@Skallagrim He might have just viewed it as a competition/entertainment thing, not actually an accurate test, though I don't want to put words in his mouth one way or the other.

[@TheNEOverse]

I don't think he had a particularly good opinion about that video either tbf.

[@jamesembry8235]

Ive been in a few incidents of incredible violence, one stab to my right kidney and a slash wound to my right forearm that left me legally dead for a bit. That said i think this dude is on some ego trip bullshit. Being engaged in violent situations certainly did not make me think training for violent situations was pointless. En garde!

[@immikeurnot]

Not sure about anybody else, but I've been cut with a knife in a non-accidental and very real-world way and will say that training is training. I'm a gun guy and force on force is absolutely a thing, from the days of simple "pew pew" with a judge, through lasers (like MILES), and then stuff like simunitions and airsoft weapons. And it's a great training tool, or else it wouldn't have such a long history and be used so much. The actual professional killers out there (insert your special operations unit here) do a LOT of force on force, or simulate it. A lot. Obsessively. And it's very obvious that's why they are so good. On his point of sparring sessions and "aggravated assault", I'm pretty sure he doesn't know what the legal term means. In places where it actually IS a legal term, stuff like shooting AT someone, stabbing a knife at them, or swinging a baseball bat at them (without even hitting them) can be an aggravated assault.

[@HiragamaIkunai]

assault is the intent, battery is the action ...also none of those would fall under either law ...they are murder and attempted murder in most places I've seen laws for lol.

[@nated8263]

If he has never been in a real knife fight, by his own logic, how would he know it is different than a real one?

[@poppingrico1381]

8:43 i remember reading up on the civil war, and there were indeed spectators. Some with picnics, which blows my mind

[@timberwolfmountaineer873]

So true. Ye olden times people were sure weird at times. i remember reading a documented a story in 19th century about a caver stuck in a mine for a crazy long amount of time. And what have our ancestors decided to do in the middle of rescue attempts? Set picnics at the mouth of the cave and began selling tickets to get to gaze at the trapped dying man. wild stuff.

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

@@timberwolfmountaineer873 We still do it People filming disasters. Rescue attempts. People watching said videos. We crowd around dramatic events. Even if sometimes its a silly lawsuit. Or drama being tossed back and forth. Or something as bad as actual proof of someone being less than stellar around children or people's boundaries. True crime channels. Before youtube there was tv after all. Humans, as a species, have always been drawn to the intense. Dramatic. And morbid.

[@timberwolfmountaineer873]

@@elvingearmasterirma7241 goes without saying morbid curiosity is a thing. But i've never seen anybody pulling up to a crime scene with a towel, panini and a bottle of Chianti. yet.

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

@@timberwolfmountaineer873 If I may ruin your day. While l ynchings horridly still happen to this very day, in the past it was considered a fun family outing. Picnics included. Its why black people in america get so twitchy around the concept of picnics. Especially since the last officially recorded one was in 1981. Nineteen. Eighty. One. Only 43 years ago So yea. You missed that level of cruelty by 43 years or so... Humanity! Aint we great?!

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

@@timberwolfmountaineer873 Nope. Just explaining that you are lucky you missed the common occurrence of people rocking up to a crime scene with picnic stuff by only 43 years

[@crwydryny]

The problem this guy has is "my kung fu is stronger than your kung fu" this is why you need to practice multiple styles both armed and unarmed, striking and grappling to understand their limitations and uses

[@Estel2121]

Ramsey surely has a lot of opinions about things he knows nothing about.