Armor is Not Overpowered... There's A Bigger Problem

[@JesseKazam]

What are your thoughts about how armor feels in Tarkov right now?

[@ivangivorachederfritzdanha4276]

i think it feels bad because i never played tarkov!!!!!!!!! grrr i hate armor grrr!!!!!!!!!!

[@jacobdoolan4978]

Whats the point of trying to play underleveled, when u cant even kill anything without leg meta....

[@xhunted2857]

it feels nice not dieing as much in those much more fair fights

[@xhunted2857]

high end armor right now feels imposable to find in raid and when you do its out of a stash and feels like you found a key card

[@gillieshooter4742]

I can't agree with adjusting availability to fix a borked system. The tweaks of loot/gear availability is something that is done pretty much last. We need a game that works as intended first. The armor currently is entirely OP because of a knee jerk "fix" to outrage over the half-baked change to a plate system. They ramped up potency of plates, while shrinking them. Which is a step in the right direction for a game wanting to be 'as realistic as playable' however, the problem is that we still have an untouched thorax hit box and hit point system. If we actually had a vitals zone nested within the thorax for these new plates to protect then this would have worked better. This is the 'half baked' part: changing what is only one half of the equation. IF they had 'made it make sense' by making a smaller vitals zone inside the thorax we would not have had the "armpit" problem from the front(you could get shot from the flank tho, but lets assume you are facing your foe) Meaning that sprays of auto fire may impact a mix of the plate and relatively unprotected chest around it. meaning no 1 or 2 hit kill to the vitals but you are still very hurt. So with a full change to the equation we have {New Armor} + {New Thorax} = {everything is tunable to feel right} ~~but~~ we're stuck with {New Armor} + {Old Thorax} = {Everything feels like shit regardless of how you change the numbers} This is the same as before they changed HOW recoil worked, they kept adjusting numbers up and down like crazy trying to please people but the system that used those numbers was the problem. They fixed that the right way: adjusting weapons, attachments, AND the equation all these variables go into AT THE SAME TIME.

[@__TClol__]

I have been feeling like the availability of "meta" loot on the traders has been a problem for a while now. Once you get max level traders, the incentive to loot equipment, rigs, armors, meds, weapons and most weapon attachments falls completely off the cliff as you chase after the highest value/slot items. The more time we spend in the "new wipe" portion of the bell curve, the better.*

[@Ixxlostinabox]

Its been a problem in every single wipe, the issue isn't exactly new. BSG are either trying to release the majority of the content they want before adjusting accessibility, OR the most likely case is BSG just don't understand what we the community do about their game.

[@АндрейМочалов-щ9р]

You dont undertand what meta is. Its not "the absolute bets thing stats wise". Its the best thing you can reliably get.

[@jesseroberts1041]

@@АндрейМочалов-щ9рNah, meta is the best. Lots just end up being able to reliably get the best, once they get further in

[@Dutchman451]

@@АндрейМочалов-щ9р but when the best thing you can reliably get is the best thing stat wise (post max traders), there's no difference

[@typingreallyfast]

​@@АндрейМочалов-щ9р I think the video is also trying to say that in the current state of Tarkov the two different attributes you're describing is present in one another at this current late wipe. A player who has maxed out traders (the number of which is probably much higher given the late wipe) can always simply buy the best gear, because of the economy favoring treasure items. Players no longer prioritize gears in their loot and use them in their next raids when needed. Instead, they prioritize treasure items because even if they're rare, just managing to exfil with them a few times guarantees so much money that you can simply buy the best gear, and at this late wipe, so many people have had that opportunity and are now running the best gear very often, so in current Tarkov the meta is the best gear.

[@RybecFromCanada]

The problem with Tarkov's armor has always been the player attitude toward it. Armor is meant to be a second chance, not a shield. You can see it right at the start of the video even. When armor plates were reduced to real size it was interesting in that some people I knew played more careful and some said it ruined the game because they couldn't just push into a fight.

[@ssdexecutor31]

I mean the problem with the more realistic armor plates is tarkov’s heath system. No one should be dying to 1-2 bullets to the collarbone but that is thorax hitbox so it did. And honestly with all of the bugs and issues around desync and hit reg and armor and ballistics in tarkov already the last thing I want is them trying to make a realistic hitbox situation. So the obvious solution is to make a combination of the old armor system that covered everything and the “realistic” armor system and that is basically what we have now. It is not a perfect but things rarely are.

[@bourneco]

@@ssdexecutor31 Catching 2 rounds to the collarbone is basically a death sentence. Subclavian, internal thoracic, superior thoracic, and the carotid arteries are either right behind it or slightly offset left or right and there's the additional risk of bone fragments potentially moving into upper thoracic organs. It's intended to be realistic, and I'd say that's fairly damn realistic.

[@1999Dorito]

@@bourneco alright nerd its a fucking video game with a dude that magically jams your gun ffs

[@ItsJustKaya]

Thats the curse of close to real thing games. 1 shot is enough to kill, the vest wont guard you, you will feel it, it will stop you. If you think about it, you cant really blame the community. Since CS was basically the Horseman of this genre which gave us 100HP, different DPS and Damage weapons. Some games still follow the rule despite the gun beeing deadly nomatter how u look at it.

[@isaac6077]

@@ItsJustKayacsgo actually respects the head shot while tarkov whiners cant get over someone still being able to one shot em no matter how expensive their helmet is

[@reacteddesert7187]

Welp here we are we've come full circle

[@epidemicstudios]

We just need balance, good ammo and good armor should be found the same way. We shouldn't be able to trade for infinite top tier armor and not do the same for the ammo. Make them both found in raid, or both infinitely available on traders. Nobody would be having this armor conversation if M61 was on the trader.

[@_Bonez12]

@@epidemicstudios They most definitely would because the only way they add M61 to the traders is through some insane task at lvl55 which is useless to most people with school/careers and families.

[@myob94]

Full circle would be back to when armor was done before this dumb ass system

[@Vb757aye]

The last armor system needed one update: a second, “vitals” thorax hit box. Now we are back to saying “let’s only give no lifes gear”. IMO opinion the reason late game Tarkov isn’t fun is because the gap between “good” and “bad” becomes too great, and a majority of “bad” players leave and never hit that mid game sweet spot. Solutions like this only makes the gap happen quicker and be more “unfun”

[@laserbidet]

Full circle back to what? Before the plate system, we never had one level of soft armor being covered by another level of higher tier armor.

[@USCGJAMESBENETEAU]

So i had to mull this over twice the first time i saw it i was pissed but i slept on it i feel like you are spot on with level 6 plates. I feel like as far as level 5 plates are concerned i feel like the Korund level 5 armor with level 2 aramid is still a spot on armor because of the additional blunt damage you take compared to level 3 aramid locking that armor behind quests and its replacement plates behind quests would be the right play seeing as the front plate is locked behind a quest. In addition to this i feel like a 44-45 pen option for all ammo (41-42 pen for pistol grade) would be a good middleman as well and that would still make the LVL6 high tier and LVL 5 with LVL 3 aramid still feel good.

[@metalheadac9368]

personally i would love the realistic armor coverage system back combined with an adjustement of the thorax hitbox because i like to think of armor as a last line of defence like IRL, you are not planing on getting hit but if you get hit a plate can safe you. i understand that tarkov is a videogame so you´d have to make some adjustments over time while monitoring the situation. I think that something in that direction would make the game more realistic and would nerf the W-Key strat while not deleting the playstyle of the w-key chads. plus if you make good ammo rarer you would have to aim around the plate more often. Like said it would require a bit of live server testing and adjustement-patches but i think it would make the game more fun and realistic in the long run

[@allstar_]

agree, and while we are at it bsg should finally decide to delete jump hight from strengh its so retarded to see player's bunnyhop and making absurd jumps, atleast if we wanna keep it more realistic edit before chads cry, I think bsg should add sliding sounds when you are prone and spinning on the floor would be a nerf for rats too

[@noxy8763]

That's a shitty band-aid fix for ratting. And chads. You can't fix them both. ​@@allstar_

[@allstar_]

@@noxy8763 whats shitty about that? Ofc you can, but sure if they are not even tryin. I think adding a Boss soley to hunt for rats is a shitty bandaid fix if you ask me. And tell me what is good about jumping strengh why does it need to exist?

[@noxy8763]

@@allstar_ Bsg should not take away strenght jumps, neither make rata more noisy. They just should take away a little more of the armor away. The only big problem that we are having rn is people feeling like tanks, we cant use anything besides m80 Chads and rats have nothing to do about that. The game doesnt need to be realistic, just feel good.

[@allstar_]

@@noxy8763 don't agree I don't like chads who can jump 4m across trains or get on top of places which shouldn't be accessible in the first place. Nor do I like rats who can silently spin in a bush and making 0 noise both playstyles are kinda retarded and don't make for a fun expierence, and this is not only me a lot of new player dislike these things specifically. I loved how the armor worked before it was realstic. Now you have a 360° shield wrapped around your body its stupid and makes no sense at all. You can make the most dumb decisions and still get away with it because you are a "tank"

[@thegamingfish547]

I quit the game after getting 24 hits on one person and dying to them. Granted I was using M855 but I’m sorry that shouldn’t be possible and I basically realized the game wasn’t worth playing unless I started early wipe

[@SkyeDoe]

i think my biggest fear is cheaters loot sucking all the good armor in this system, but then again i think that a cheater is gonna kill you 9/10 regardless of their armor lol

[@Zerklass]

Cheaters gonna cheat

[@SlimFresh01]

RMT'ers would be so fken up if he want's things to be fir

[@Ixxlostinabox]

BSG can adjust the armor barters/sales on the traders to make them less frequent. The armor doesn't need to be FIR, just the access to it needs to be reduced.

[@hunterfirechaser2784]

PvE opened my eyes to just how bad the loot hoover problem is in PvP, the fact I can find enough GPUs to fill my level 1 farm with relative ease and find them in duffel bags of all places means I'm never going back to PvP

[@hunterfirechaser2784]

​@@Ixxlostinaboxthe only real way to make that happen would be to make the barter items banned off flea as well, which then makes them useless until you can get to the barter

[@Handyman941]

Last armor was good made cheap ammo actually work but KZbinrs that don’t see grass had to complain

[@mitrakasg8519]

How did the time to kill increase if i am only getting headshoted

[@Zerklass]

I agree wholeheartedly with the conclusion, it makes no sense that scrappy traders skirting the law to sell black market goods to bums in an active warzone would have the heighst teirs of armor and ammo. They should probably max have tier 4 armor and 30 pen ammo. Eliminate most shit tier ammo spawns and increase the pool for better items to spawn more often.

[@ForOne814]

It makes way more sense for them to have exclusively the highest tiers of armor. New production steel armor is a thing in the US, but it's not a thing in Russia. The only new production plates I can get here are level 5 or 6 ceramic. And they are readily available and relatively cheap. Class 4 is mostly ancient surplus.

[@aska221]

So then what's the point in questing for 500hours to unlock the best items?

[@mikeesteves8427]

@@aska221 i think the amount of xp required needs to be reduced drastically then it would make sense for the traders to have less gear. but youre not gonna make ppl grind for ages to max their traders just for it to not be rewarding at all. either reduce the grind or give them something worth grinding for

[@aska221]

@@mikeesteves8427 "give them something worth grinding for" and thats what we have right now

[@takingday]

I agree and that would incentivize looting in-game or crafting but I can't help but wonder if we also added Special tasks like an extra a daily task that only gave higher tier gear , weapons or ammo no rep or exp it could only be done in raid (no turn in quests) so it's higher risk and people have to put effort every time they want to get these rather than just logging in and buying when the traders reset it and makes people engage in the game a bit more and give clearer goals as you play.

[@Longboh1]

I’m going to say it again, FIR trades would help reduce this problem as well. (Barter trades that the items need to be FIR, so you can’t just buy them off market) If you still left some high tier FIR armor trades or ammo trades people would have access to it, but not unlimited. They’d still need to find items and extract. You could make a lot of those FIR trades require items that late when or are considered worthless, HDDs, batteries, caps, LCD screens, anything and everything, but nothing craftable. I could have all the money in the world but I’d still have the need to go into raid to find stuff for top tier trades. I could have 189 mil, but still get excited about finding 3 AA batteries because I’m that much closer to batgering for another slick. Introduce some FIR barters that you just get access to and some others that you get from tasks and leveling. I love the feeling of “unlocking” the world as I progress and unlock trades through tasks. But it makes it too available. I think FIR trades would go a long way towards fixing it.

[@ogdukt]

Very smart, good idea.

[@shampp5411]

I've never thought of FIR for barter items. Clever.

[@puchak97]

I thought of the same thing while watching this video. As soon as he mentioned treasure items... I thought... why not make people go into marked rooms and high loot tier areas to collect special FIR items to barter for? They have to work for it!

[@travismarshall4878]

Love this idea. I think FIR Barters only, and making Level 5 and 6 armors only found on raiders/bosses/guards, and keeping high tier stuff off flea is great.

[@Juche48]

You're so right

[@mikemandalorian9226]

But it is, again. I don't understand why they worked so hard on new armor hitboxes just to delete all that hard work. We are again in "meta ammo only"

[@mikedebakker5820]

Simple, because the new hitboxes sucked. Just because they put effort into it doesn't mean it's good for the game.

[@mikemandalorian9226]

@@mikedebakker5820 it was good for the game, now everyone is armored like a tank again and gear difference breaks the balance

[@mikedebakker5820]

@@mikemandalorian9226 You missed the point of the video didn't you?

[@mikemandalorian9226]

@@mikedebakker5820 no, i miss the old armor system when all ammo and weapons were useful

[@mikedebakker5820]

@@mikemandalorian9226 Well sorry but your crap budget gun with horrible ammo just isn't supposed to be "useful" against the best armor in the game. That is just horrible ballance and there is no way around that.

[@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289]

Still of the opinion that the old unsimplified armor system would have been fine if they had made the exposed parts of the thorax act similarly to how the arms do. That way you still feel like a chad when wearing Class 5/6 but the person shooting you atleast is doing SOMETHING to you other than blunt damage. The way it feels now is far too binary. You feel like you either completely bypass armor or you might as well just throw your gun down and run. EDIT: Also I do agree with the progression that you suggested in this video, regardless of the effectiveness of the armor I think everyone will agree that the end-game was completely squashed and that Class 5/6 is far too common. And I agree that ammo availability is in an alright spot right now, the more mid-tier cartridges that can be used the better. The ammo availability as it is now (Outside of Sig Hybrid and M62 Tracer) compliments Class 5 & 6 being removed from the traders pretty nicely.

[@Sphereaus]

Agreed

[@FM4AMGV]

It should have been left at the realistic plate system. Changes to the health system would fix it

[@adamstilber8382]

I don’t feel like ammo availability early on is good as is. Right now, 5.56x45mm M856, which has 18 pen, is a Peacekeeper LvL 2 purchase. I feel like SOME ammo could be brought down a level after adjustments were made this wipe due to the armor rework.

[@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289]

@@adamstilber8382 I feel like the reason some 5.56 cartridges are higher in the progression is a combination of the high fire rate of the platform and Peacekeeper's required levels for LL are generally lower than the other traders.

[@darrkhunter96]

​@@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289 5.45PS is Prapor 3 iirc

[@tomerabitbuleizen4992]

The problem is that we can get levels 5 and 6 really easily but not get good. Ammo 56a1 is the best 556 ammo you can get. Meanwhile, you have 3 types that are better Just a reminder it used to be that you could get everything off the flee, including the best ammo, so when people brought the best armor, you would bring the best ammo, and the ttk would stay normal All they need to do is give access to the better ammo types

[@StruggleGaming]

The W chads got what they wanted for a wipes worth of crying that they couldnt tank shots like its warzone. I missed realistic tarkov...

[@sjfjaisncnsa.]

The armor system was fine previously (before they buffed the hitbox)

[@TylerMartin-n7h]

I think the original plate system was the best thing Tarkov has had in a while, and they should have reworked the soft armor rather than revert to old hitboxes

[@FormerGovernmentHuman]

I think an easy fix is much lower durability armor. In real life III+ or IV ceramic plates can take 3 armor penetrating 7.62X51 in proper condition, however once that 3 round limit has been reached your chance will of stopping another round with that plate is rolling the dice hard. Once the plate is compromised even normal ball 9mm has a good chance of scoring a hit.

[@travismarshall4878]

110% Jesse. Nikita's aversion to farming mechanics hurts the game. Make good gear obtained by engaging with the systems you want in game. Good ammo (can pen level 4+ reliably) and armor (5/6) should be items you want to go farm for, and can ONLY get from raids or items you have found in raid. Items that you have to go hunt bosses, guards, raiders for. Increase the amount of bosses, raiders, goons, to go farm on various maps. Flea and the hideout should be for reliably having mid tier supplies to run raids and not have to hunt for misc. parts to put together guns.

[@epidemicstudios]

The problem with only having level 6 armor in raid just means hackers take them off of you the second you load into raid. Back when slicks were ultra rare you couldn't run one for more than a single raid before they found you and stole it.

[@BBMILITIA13224]

I know exactly what you're talking about. Early this wipe it was impossible to run a long barrel mutant without dying to someone with a 50 k/d, but that doesn't mean long barrel mutants should be available at level 15.

[@RandomName0316]

I have an inventory that has 10 full meta kits. CPC Mod1 with class 6 plates all around, SIG Spear, Bastion w/slapp plate, deaths shadow. Cheating isn't much of an issue

[@glovakwyzinski9141]

If we cater the game to cheater problems what make the game worse it will never improve

[@DAD1996W]

I‘m sorry if you encounter a cheater every raid, but that’s not my experience. I often run good stuff in my raids and sometimes I get killed by players and lose it and yes in some cases those are cheaters but they are the minority in my experience. I also survive many raids with very good gear. And I also if I were to believe you that cheaters always kill you when you bring your good gear to raid, which btw I don’t believe, there still would be many people that don’t die to cheaters every raid that they use good gear. My point is that you shouldn’t adapt the game to cheaters. It’s making the game less fun. And even if you adapt the game to combat cheaters (and hereby making it a worse experience for normal players), the cheaters find other ways to destroy your fun in the game. I personally just learned to accept that we will always have cheaters in Tarkov no matter what BSG does to combat them. They will always find a way to cheat. So imo BSG should just make the game experience as good as possible and don’t let cheaters worsen the game experience.

[@DJ_Treu]

Thats not a gameplay issue that a security issue.

[@nathanspohn9881]

As a casual and a new player, all of this sounds like a good idea on paper. Implementation tweaks are necessary, of course, but a good starting point. If anything, I don't play at all late wipe because I can't compete with half of the other people who are running even class 4 armors. I'm not confident enough yet to chase fights, so finding better gear in the world is a better alternative to me than trying to pick it off a player and then probably just die to another player in the process

[@bigsmile208]

Awsome idea! By removing items from the flea or traders you can then design spots where these high level items have a chance to spawn. Could be locked rooms, bosses or even airdrops.

[@rodrigogonzalez1254]

Wanna solve this issue ?! Make it that lvl 5 and 6 armour are only found in raid. No barters, no crafting and no buying. Same for ammo that has more then 41 pen. Only found in raid. That’s it. Problem basically solved.

[@АндрейМочалов-щ9р]

Its not, you will have everone run in class4 armor and shoot each other with 37-40 pen bullets. And everyone will start crying again that the game is stale and armor doesnt work because they get killed in 2-4 shots. We've come full circle, this situation happened already in the past. The problem is in this community. People want to survive every time they get shot at, they want armor to save their ass all the time and give them 2nd, 3rd, 10000th chances to return fire and kill the opponent. But they want it exclusively for themselves and be able kill others in usual fast manner. Personally, i like low TTK and had no problem with it. Im ok with dieing fast, as long as i am able to kill other players just as fast. To me it creates the most dynamic in the game, it feels hardcore, weapons feel dangerous and lethal and you dont want to play stupid. It comes from the old days, when i was learning the game and you could buy M995 and BS ammo in bulk. Armor didnt save you as much back then, if you fucked up - you fucked up, game over. This was the end game PVP back then.

[@Matias-dr3ys]

@@АндрейМочалов-щ9р yes in my opinion if you take a stupid route and get caught with your pants down then its your fault not the game. positioning has always mattered in shooters and it should in EFT too.

[@noobguy9973]

@@АндрейМочалов-щ9р kinda why ı prefer smth like Insurgency where getting off guard means you're majorly f*cked. This does make CQB a shitstorm but it also does lead to actuall use of cover and suppressive fire due to how fast you can die.

[@AverageArtificer]

35 and higher pen probably would be better i know thats low but we could make class 4 more rare as well and shorten the wipes by a month for good results to

[@JayFlowerzzz]

No hackers will vacuum all of it and then trade it

[@Weslicus]

I agree with this completely. My favorite fights in Tarkov are the mid geared ones. Where we both got decent guns with sights but class 3-4 armor and our ammo sucks.

[@lorincke0282]

i think if they just made the soft body armor parts cover the torso fully, with soft armor being lvl 3 on all armors that can take plates/lowering the pen of HP rounds so that every one of them has 10 pen or below, then the "1 shot with hp to the thorax" problem wouldn't exist. obv all this with the armor plates reversed to the previous hitboxes. honestly i really enjoyed the inconsistency of the plates that came with this wipe. i felt like that tarkov is a hard game again and i had to have more situational awareness. i had to avoid being shot. rn its just running in with tier 6 armor with my m62 FAL and spray and pray. if the enemy has an m4 then im basically invincible and always win. however i agree that making high tier plates more scarse would do wonders. tbh the ammo system became pointless again. the same system that bsg wanted to revive with this wipe. with enlarging the hitboxes, they literally did the reverse of what they planned for by default. now it feels like that 90% of all that ammo variety is useless.

[@BrotherBillOG]

I played tarkov for 3k hours. I didn't touch this wipe though until a week ago. My first raid, shot a guy 31 times before his friend blew my brains out. Haven't ran a raid since.

[@juggernautdriveSS]

5 and 6 armor fir only, no crafts no traders. All ammo 40 pen or higher, fir only, no crafts, no traders. You want it, go get it.

[@mnm8818]

Rant add, I bought 100++ SAS drives for lv 6 plates barter when they were 80k ish... Will never run out of them... When I see class 5front plates on players I'm like ewww... But they need to change that up as you stated. Delta Force does it good and bad as well... Lots of their gear are barters but then you can just buy the stuff from the market or buy the actual gear on the market lol counter intuitive

[@juggernautdriveSS]

@@mnm8818 I couldn't agree more with what you said. Good ammo and good armor doesn't even feel unique anymore without plentiful they are

[@George_Rakkas]

I think maybe you should also get ceramic trash tier level 5 armor for old Russian vests in high level traders maybe. Otherwise nobody uses those without the reworked hutboxes they had a couple of months ago

[@zingy1811]

Agreed, but they have to increase the spawn rates a lot. Finding one slick in a stash ones a wipe is not enough. It actually incentivizes high lvl players to loot stuff and not just pvp. For example I haven't looted a container in like two months. They should also remove more ammos from the traders and up the spawn rate of the ammo in game by alot. Again its not enough to find 100 m61 during the whole wipe. Conclusion is to have way less stuff on the traders and more loot in raid

[@juggernautdriveSS]

@@zingy1811 I honestly wouldn't be apposed to completely getting rid of traitors and currency entirely from the game. Scav is your free kit when down bad, everything else is in raid.

[@Suger5zero]

I realize that the gigachads were mad about the realistic armor but I liked it in real life. There are plenty of scenarios where one bullet would kill you. And it's the great equalizer Between new players and people that spend their lives on the game. It's not like having the armor wasn't still a big advantage.

[@dd805100]

Yeah but everything is based on money vs effectiveness so everyone only ran lv3 n 4 if that never anything more cause running anything better felt pointless for the performance vs money spent

[@zimmerit6356]

The solution was patch 0.14 but ppl wanted to play call of tarkov so now they're getting exactly what they asked for: arcade shooter slop.

[@HalIOfFamer]

Yeah, and 80% of armor in the game being absolutely useless because they didn't cover even half of the chest. Great idea bro. Solution has always been FIR meta. Mid tier kits on traders and everything else is FIR. We could even go to the old old armor system and it would work.

[@zimmerit6356]

@@HalIOfFamer guess what, timmy? that is how it is irl. There are different sizes of plates, vests and all.

[@handsomebear5445]

@@zimmerit6356 Then there shouldn't be armor points and damage point cuz every if any ammo gets through your plate and your thorax gets touched, you should be dead instantly. Also they should remove the splint that can cure your fracture within a second. Instead they should have you staying in your hideout for weeks to heal up because salewa doesn't work like that in real life

[@zimmerit6356]

@@handsomebear5445 cope and seethe. The game was great without invulnerable players runing and jumping around like COD without consequence and now we are back to this stupid dynamic. They should have just slightly tweaked the sizes and positions of the plates and that would've been the sweet spot.

[@handsomebear5445]

@@zimmerit6356 Bro like just tap the head. People keep bitching other players running like COD because they never aim for the head. Even 5.45 PS can pen through FAST FS

[@LunarBulletDev]

as a game designer and dev, i fully agree with the sentiment of extreme grinders not having top tier gear because of max traders and casual players not having a disadvantage because they dont grind as hard, having top tier gear locked as found in raid would make everyone enjoy the game more and make it feel more rewarding, as everyone has more balanced chances of having a decent kit while respecting their times and getting rewarded when looking for stuff. its actually very impressive that you have some good game design reasonings and proposals, i guess your intellect and those 8000 hours pay off! these types of analysis is like analyzing a living organism, which tarkov is one. BSG should really do AB testing, so they release the regular progression and also test your "fair progression" proposal and see which one the players like most

[@Mr.Krotki]

In my opinion you are wrong. The damage system should be rebuilt.What's the problem with making vital elements like the heart or lungs just like they did the armpit. Arena mode perfectly shows how broken the current system is and how much ammunition you sometimes have to put into an enemy to put him to sleep.

[@George_Rakkas]

You are right but did you see the outrage with the armpits? The community seems to dislike these kind of changes after all which is sad

[@Mr.Krotki]

@@George_Rakkas Definitely more than the community, the streamers cried when Timmy sent them back to stahs with a lucky shoot. Let them do critical organs like the heart or lungs and let them make plates function normally again. Without this we revert again to the leg meta system.

[@halo27300]

@@George_Rakkas from what I’ve seen, most of the people that hated the armour hitboxes are the kind of people that play in a 5 man while listening to music and get upset when something ruins their power trip, but that’s just my two cents

[@takingday]

I think the availability of high tier armor is one part of the problem of a list of issues with the armor/health system. I do like the idea of the older plate system (besides the exposed armpit hitbox that had too many issues ) I just think they didn't change enough like increasing the base health the thorax and stomach by a small bit, reduced damage for some hitboxes(shoulders) , smoother curve in armor class (having the equivalent of class 3.5 armor ) 0 durability armor has at least a forth the armor class effectiveness. I want to get to that goldilocks zone of not being too tanky or getting instantly killed in the thorax and for ammo usability to be more wide than only a handful of ammos get widespread use.

[@adamstilber8382]

I don't feel like completely removing level 5 and 6 armor from traders would work. I think they need to take the current limits and set them all to 1 per reset and maybe even remove some of them. At the same time, I am a big fan of the idea to go back to the small hitboxes but add a second thorax hitbox that is the "vitals" hitbox. That would make it so that plates protect your vitals but you don't get one tapped because a bullet grazed your armpit. It would have to come from the side and pen through the arm, nonvital hitbox, AND the vital hitbox.

[@Aruhito_0]

I absolutely loved that the armors had open spaces, not exposing the unarmored side was important.. face the threat. Just like people look down to not show the face hitbox, or try to not expose their legs. It mad the combat deeper, and scavs more scary. I explained it to some that it is like in world of tanks, where you have to think about positioning, not exposing the unarmored parts, or aiming for the unarmored parts, Like some helmets have open ears. They just should have made the armorplates a bit bigger, eliminating armpit and thorax hits from the front. Or make soft armor cover the whole body, like it was before the plates. The magic wings of the front plate now are just insane, and made flanking worthless.

[@kurotactix]

Jesse, one of my favorite parts of your content is how calmly and fairly you present a topic. No unnecessary exaggerations, complaints, or general freak outs. Sheesh your voice and speaking style is so good! Your charisma score must be a 20.

[@trici_0006]

Just go back to the way armor was at the start of this wipe. Made low tier ammo worth a dam to run instead of "oh its either go full flesh or go full pen". People complained about the armor change at the start because they could not be a W chad. Play carefully and with tactics and you will be fine. I hate the fact that we went to this new armor where armor is pretty much back to how it was originally. How armor is too tanky but you guys were the ones that wanted armor to be op again. Armor is not suppose to be a shield you hide behind. you wear it for a second chance if you get hit. Also the first change made the full armor sets worth it. Now whats the point of running a gen4 or any full kit armor if I can just run the smaller ones with the same protection.

[@vinddictive_8468]

I loved the realistic hit boxes for armor it was sooo good

[@qwertyq69420]

These hitboxes were a big part of the reason why i bought this game 😢

[@calopsita4465]

Fuck no, dying to cheesines is terrible and it would killl the game

[@floriansoos4716]

Agreed, now 80% ammo is useless in late wipe, firefights became less chaotic and more bland, ai scavs are a joke who get walked all over, also good luck to players joining mid wipe since they aint killing shit.

[@trici_0006]

Dude just use cover and tactics. The fact that people are saying oh "ammo need to be rebalanced" or "High lvl armor is too available" are just making problems where there is not a problem. High lvl armor is always going to be in the hands of those that play more then those that don't. Early wipe to mid wipe not a lot of people are running lvl 5 or 6 armor. Large majority are running lvl 4 or 3. And if you are playing late wipe then ofc people are going to be rocking high tier armor plates. The quest to unlock the Lvl 5 or 6 plates are so late into the questlines that you don't really see that quest until mid of mid wipe to late mid wipe. If I want to use SOST 556 or any ammo that can only pen lvl 3 and does ok flesh damage, should be able to fight armors and go through the soft armor thats lvl 3 throughout the wipe. But now that the Armor plates cover most if not all of the soft armor its useless to use any ammo that can't pen lvl 4 through out the wipe.

[@Alivedylan]

I fully agree with everything in this video, and i do think it should happen with guns as well, but getting good ammo is very annoying for me as a casual, and i don't think the ammo should be taken from the traders

[@thebeanz7838]

99.9% of the time I die in this game I get head eyed, so.....none of this effects me

[@karnliberated8891]

Yeah I dont have gunfights after week 1 or 2 of wipe. Just turns into did I headshot that guy or Head,Eyes. I thought with the armpit hitbox that would just change to that, nah I still just get headshot by that scav regardless.

[@olgagaming5544]

Thats why I always wear Plated Bastion helmet, over long distance I expect to get protected from a headshot, esp at night where people dont see well and just aim at the big round ball. At CQB though wearing helmet is useless cause u get hit into the face but i didnt fight in cqb in a long time

[@mikedebakker5820]

I swear this is because Tarkov has a lack of gun sway and it's a problem. It's actually crazy how steady your guy can hold his gun in this game especially with hold breath which is not even a thing IRL. This is what causes every fight to just be instant one taps. If anything, aiming with a broken arm in this game looks a lot closer to what aiming in general IRL would look like.

[@olgagaming5544]

@@mikedebakker5820 Ah, so that's what they meant when they said aiming in DayZ got easy I think, something about sway. Propably meant that in older patches your gun would move a lot when trying to aim and now its way more steady

[@mikedebakker5820]

@@olgagaming5544 Correct, although DayZ still has far more sway than Tarkov.

[@drewg3669]

I like the idea of merging the arena class system with late wipe progression and adding play-style related gear unlocks behind quest lines related to those play-styles. I think having a quest line for dorms pmc kills and factory pmc kills to unlock a cheap barter for zabrallo armor or a good close range gun, or a difficult sniper quest line to get a cheap meta AXMC barter would be really interesting and really prolong the progression while making it more personalized as well.

[@-Mr.Postman]

I don't know if it's possible to fix in a game, but I really don't like how if your character gets hit (with or without the best armor), your character doesn't respond like it should. if you get hit with a rifle round 5.56, 7.62, 300 blackout. you're going down or at the very least thrown back off target. The fact that you can stay on target while taking rounds with or without armor is IMO what hurts players that get the jump on an opponent. Takes away the "advantage" aspect of going against someone rushing an elevated or fortified position. Love your content @JesseKazam

[@andynorth1776]

It's honestly a great idea. High tier shit SHOULD be rare, but equally accessible to everyone. This goes for both armor and weapons. Put it in stashes, on bosses, etc.

[@erickmerryman109]

Streamers actually dying: "waaaah armor sucks" Streamers not able to immediately delete Timmy: "waaaaah, armor good, but everyone has it"... what these shills want is to go turbo and stomp anyone tht cant play 8 hrs a day. The cheaters and watching creators whine until they rebuffed armor is why I wont touch this garbage fire again.

[@YesImMike]

You sound like someone that dies to a scav and trys to report it for cheating.

[@alpacinofromfortnite6803]

you sound like someone who thinks tarkov should be a 9-5

[@erickmerryman109]

@@alpacinofromfortnite6803 fortnite in name LOL, dismissed.

[@erickmerryman109]

@@YesImMike ah yes, the typical tarkov apologist. If you call out flagrant ossues with the game it's "git gud". Nikita and the streamer boys love you for your lack of gag reflex. 😂

[@alpacinofromfortnite6803]

@@erickmerryman109 love yourself person of certain racial and sexual minority background

[@YourSource4Gaming]

In my opinion, the old armor hitboxes were fine. It was based in realism. People got buthurt that a bullet bypassed your hard plate, armor plates irl are not enormous, there are gaps on the edges and between plates if you're building a full front, back, side and groin plate armor setup. It's just the way it is and the playerbase should not have complained so much.

[@Accuracy158]

I think BSG understands this but they're always a few steps behind the players retroactively flea banning items after they become meta. We should just automatically make sure tier 6 and best in class items only exist in raid and can't be sold on the flea market.

[@FourFour-ee1tf]

T6 plates can’t be sold on flea????? What are you on about bout

[@GameEditMrCzopowski]

I think that making class 5 and 6 armour found in raid only is an amazing idea, coupled with the suggestion of making raiders very rarely have class 5 plates, and make bosses like killa and tagilla have it more often whilst also having the rare chance of having class 6. This should also be implemented in weaponry. I think that having really high tier weapons and attachments should be found in raid only as well. This would make every player have a different gear set. It would reduce the ‘Meta’ as people would be struggling to find the item necessary to become endgame. The game would be overall less linear as people would stop doing loot runs for money and start farming bosses and stashes for high class armour, powerful weapons and ammo. Great work Jesse!

[@latheless]

I'm here for the yap session

[@jaydenjohnson3380]

I think the problem is less about the armor itself and more about hitboxes, with the new armor changes it's so much more noticeable when you shoot someone's chest, and then it flinches their arms over their face and then you can't get a headshot because some how my ap .308 can't penetrate someone's wrist

[@itsgriffgroff]

videos like this bum me out because the ideas in them are so good and so worth trying but inevitably the reality sets in that the game is still being developed by battlestate games.

[@Dantecks]

This system would actually work really well with the planned terminal single player "escape" mission. You would push to loot lvl6 gear over raids. Then commit to a chad run on the final "endgame"

[@allWorkAndNoJake]

Hot take: Tarkov .14 was just about peak. Good armor should drastically reduce the chance that bullets hit your vitals, but real life armor plates can get bypassed in strange ways too. And that chance gives us noobs and weaklings at least a tiny chance against all the chads. Even if it gets bypassed sometimes, you still die a lot less than if you weren't wearing it. Edit: A bonus of my approach is that the unlucky high level chads dying by chance would drop top tier loot for everyone else at the end of the wipe. Thus providing that distibution process Jesse's asking for here.

[@Fictitious199X]

Problem is the "chads" have the microphone, and we do not.

[@allWorkAndNoJake]

@@Fictitious199X You're right. The chads absolutely dominate the narrative of the EFT player experience. I've mentioned it in another comment since the one here: if BG wants us noobs and Timmies to stay online to be farmed by Chads (for the Chads' entertainment), they need to find a way to ensure we're still having fun. But since BG clearly believes people should never have fun, I don't see them sorting this out.

[@Wagguns]

I think you are exactly right and this is the solution we need. Furthermore, I think this sort of gameplay loop is exactly what a lot of us thought we were being promised when we first came to Tarkov, but we’ve lost sight of it amidst all of the high level progression. Implementing something like this would probably bring a lot of life back to the game and make it feel much more rewarding, just as you are suggesting.

[@Murmur95]

I can only see this working if t5/6 gear is able to be found without locked rooms / doing high tier bosses. If the gear is only found in high tier locked rooms / bosses it will mean that casuals will have a hard time getting this endgame gear and be constantly outgeared making the whole issue worse. I think the armor would need to be in low traffic areas with low loot which makes players need to choose to get loot or gear.

[@glovakwyzinski9141]

How about mid tier (like heavy plate) t5 is in airdrops military crates and rouge bags while the best t5 and t6 is in bosses airdrops and unlocked rooms

[@fredshmeen3330]

this is 100% correct, idk about low traffic areas becuase the moment everyone learns the spawns for lvl 6 itll become a high traffic area. You nailed the head on it being accessible for everyone for the most part. obviosly you still should be rewarded for killing bosses and opening rooms

[@Murmur95]

@@fredshmeen3330 Yeah, not saying that raiders / bosses cant wear high items. Just saying there needs to be a way for non chads to get it.

[@mzticc]

good idea but we might need to change the weight system a bit then.. because there is no way I am taking a Zabralo out of raid in my backpack. I dont think it'll fix Endgame though.

[@zombiesue1054]

Completely agree. The way things are right now, death means nothing. Your entire kit was bought off traders, so you can just go buy it again if you die. Nothing has any value beyond the roubles it cost to buy. There's nothing that has value only in time.

[@SuppahTenko]

An option to have high tier traders still feel powerful is to give a rather limited way to purchase high tier gear from them. Instead of per item base it would be overall and to not make it so that camping the trader reset is the best strategy have it on a much longer and gradual timer. Let me give an example; per day you get one of such special procurements, but you can bank up to 10 of them. The number are arbitrary, but the idea is that you have the same amount of access even if you only play like a day per week. You limit the amount of high end gear, but people can still choose from a large variety. Though naturally getting gear in raid is preferred. Going into a raid to get gear is less convoluted than going into a raid, so you can loot stuff that you can then turn into money so you can then buy gear.

[@fewny2691]

sorry. but the video at 1:15 does not make me hate the now old armor system. if you get shot where you have no armor, your armor should not protect you. This game shouldn't be super arcadey where the armor is a sleek protective coating the same size for each armor, just because they both protect the "chest". a slick and a paca should cover what they visually cover, and a Kirasa level 3 should be better at some things than a hexgrid. a hex grid should be better at stopping powerful rounds in the small zone it protects, while the kirasa can protect against less powerful rounds and cover more area. The problem has always been the ammo balance, and the immersive hitboxes fixed that. You want to kill someone with a slick? run flesh ammo and shoot them where the slick aint.

[@cornflake-cperk2431]

Great video. As you suggest, put the best gear only in raid, not via traders or flea. But I'd suggest further dividing it by map. For example: Put the best armor on/near the USEC soldiers on Lighthouse. Put the best weapons on the raiders in Reserve. Put the best ammo on the guards of Streets. And the same can be done with tier 2 stuff split up across Customs/Woods/Factory, maybe in an area guarded by a boss or higher level scavs. Similarly Bosses + guards could have mid-gear generally, but loaded up with top level of just ONE of armor | weapons | ammo.

[@uoislame]

the harder it is to obtain gear, the more people will rat to keep it. giving players all good gear makes them more willing to engage to lose it.

[@_Bonez12]

Agreed, the sense of loss has to be balanced so people will actually use their gear and not save it for some special occasion.

[@ThatOneCWhite]

really feel like this is the perspective of someone that gets 90% of their enjoyment from pvp, when the game has so many more things to offer that make that pvp that much more tasteful, anxiety inducing, and fun. gear doesn't make players more or less ratty. a ratty player will always be a ratty player unless they work on their playstyle. if you give them full tier 6 armor and a SIG MCX, they'll still crouch at the first sound of steps and crouch walk until they get the jump on the enemy PMC. what makes players ratty is broken systems such as audio and the loudness of your own PMC (i literally cant hear anything over my PMC's equipment when im just walking) - but that's a different topic.

[@jawahanifart8220]

@@ThatOneCWhite this just isnt true what? if the fun gear is much harder to get then it encourages any player to play in a style that decreases the chance of losing it no matter how un fun it is for everyone. why would someone work on their ratty playstyle if its the play style that is the most encouraged

[@squidwardo7074]

I don't think this is it people rat because they are bad at the game I see people all the time level 50+ with full meta kits and still ratting like crazy

[@uoislame]

@@ThatOneCWhite this is just incorrect on every measure. the audio has nothing to do with play style. and it only frustrates people who aren't ratting. when the time investment to get my good kit is high enough i don't want to lose it, i sit in a corner every time i hear anyone and wait. ratting is the lowest risk, highest chance of winning any fight. so players who are not willing to give up their time to get back to where they are now, will employ it all the time. the easier it is to get the gear, the more risky players will play. why do so many people worry about gear fear? area is a failure because it is the exact opposite of this problem. there is literally no risk outside of a single match. it is just cod but with a bunch of goofy mechanics that make it worse.

[@mountaingoatgaminggg9395]

Imo i like the idea of 5-6 armor being fir only. I think high end ammo should be the same. Also another idea ive floated is to have the traders inventory randomized each reset and make the higher tier gear rarer in those resets

[@jakubc5618]

I don't quite understand how changing the distribution of gear availability fixes the problem that lvl 5 and lvl 6 armor is way too tanky. It will still be too tanky if you encounter it. Thus, it is still overpowered. The same problem as with lvl 5 and 6 armor late wipe will happen now early wipe once people get access to level 4 armors. Anyone with low-tier ammo will now have the same issue, that people in level 4 rigs will be tanks. The proper solution would be to introduce a vital hitbox separate from the main 85 HP thorax and go back to the smaller hitboxes introduced with 0.14 patch. First couple of months of the 0.14 wipe were great, because virtually every gun was viable, including SMGs.

[@George_Rakkas]

You can't possibly think that shooting at someone with level 4 armor and level 2 aramid with 35+ pen is the same as shooting level 6 with level 3 aramid with 45-51 pen. That's delusional

[@jakubc5618]

@@George_Rakkas M855 with 31 pen and 5.45 PS with 28 pen, both available at L3 traders. 6B13 available at Ragman L2. It is pretty much the same.

[@isaac6077]

@@George_Rakkasits so timmy cant have them so he can go back to seal clubing

[@mccannlop]

i think in part your right. the feeling of running a raid with the fattest kit on planet earth should feel unique, not common. as much as people will say that gear fear comes into play, it’s not the case rn. high tier gear is so available that gear fear is basically non existent as long as u know how to scav run properly. everyone given a couple of hours and a little bit of knowledge can get enough to make a meta kit and it fucks over basically everyone trying to experience the full game. it feels like playing a sp game like skyrim or kcd and maxing out skills before u experience the real challenges. it takes away from the dedication and tension from the game cos u know that u are at the best advantage possible. things are just too easy rn (considering it’s an ultra realistic shooter, im not saying it’s easy😭) we just need some genuine risk reward. run a fat kit, ur taking a big risk and not a break waiting for trader reset or scav cool-down. i hope .15 is a lil more balanced but i don’t count on it tbh EDIT: also hackers are the main problem rn. as much as i like that bsg are developing the game and adding content, the problem that has been consistent between wipes is hackers using vacuum or aimbot or whatever. i genuinely wouldn’t care if the new wipe had NO new content and just reduced hackers because i think the game is still enjoyable until that one time u run into a no life with aimbot

[@MuddyintheWater]

Armor was actually in a good place and then they ruined it by expanding the hit boxes. Armor is in the worst place it's been since I've been playing (3 years). It's unrealistic and over powered

[@zubze278]

Hey they actually listened to you! Check the patch

[@The-Caged-King]

As someone who’s never played tarkov I completely disagree and think you’re opinion is stupid

[@kdr1235]

Great ideas! Forcing players to FIND op loot is gonna make owning it feel that much more rewarding and, and stumbling upon a juiced up boi that much more scary. I really like the concept of making certain loot spawn only on certain maps. It would create an naturall and organic tier amog maps, with the low reward maps becoming low risk (less valuable loot, less geared up ppl) and high reward maps becoming high risk (more valuable loot, more geared up ppl)

[@3ewfdsr]

here we go again a streamer tryna fuck with the armor system, yall already destroyed it by increasing the hitboxes, but it wasnt enough, yall gotta keep fucking with it. this is tarkov NOT cod, if u get shot in the side with hp where there is no armor u should die, why dont u get shot in the side irl and tell me how long u live, itll be not even half a second... its a kill shot same as a head or throat shot, shouldna complained about the hit boxes and jes got better at not exposing ur whole side to the enemy.

[@greaves8332]

This

[@Morning-0v0-Star]

Maybe won't happen but I do think old armor hitbox is more fun and more immersion of the lore, but the problem is player HP is too low, and the "chest" hitbox is too big, I was thinking if we can double the player HP, fix and reduce the chest hitbox, so player won't die to a shoulder shot that count as a chest shot. But we all know BSG is lazy so of course they just increased the hitbox of the plates, and now we just die to a throat shot.

[@Fr0zenBonez]

With this wipe being the first that I got kappa. I feel like this is a step in the right direction, because as soon as I got max traders I got to the point where I could buy everything I wanted on reset, I'm not sure on the small issues this might bring to new or casual players, but it would change how long "early wipe last with mid wipe". Super happy to see someone giving some type of idea.

[@jesmcdevlin3116]

As a new no lifer, (I don't have thousands of hours yet but i've put an unhealthy amount in so far in the short time i have played), This sounds like an ideal solution for a problem. Gear balance is often handled by rarity as well as effectiveness in any RPG. Why would this, a looter shooter, be any different? Not this isn't Borderlands, or Nightmare Reaper (check it out) but this game has 2 major features. Shooting, and looting. It should take inspiration and known working solutions from games that are in similar themes. Addendum: They could entirely work in more of the hideout into loot progression too. Imagine the intel center giving you more updated -possible- spawns of the bosses, spawns of airdrops, or telling you that X or Y map has buffed chances to find X or Y type of loot per run. This would also help push people into new maps, at new times of day. Goit a customs only kinda guy? He may go to shoreline if there is an airdrop almost gaurenteed acording to intel for the next hour or so. Hunting Scav or PMC kills on a map? Maybe intel reports increased Scav or extra PMC spawns on a map for an hour or so. Looking for something more chill? Reduced scav or PMC numbers reported on this or that map. SO SO MUCH could be done with having variable spawns in raids and adding it into the intel center. Without intel built up you'd not be put in the special raids to incentivize progression, and maybe give you the option to go on these special runs rather than forcing it with intel upgrades. Think of it though. IT'd be like mini-events 24/7. 3X Scavs / PMCs on Factory would be insane. Sniper outbreaks on woods or shorelines would be horrifying, or sometimes just simply knowing a boss is or is not home would be a fucking nice thing before you get domed from across the map by hawkeye.... Again. >.>

[@endercraft4976]

I do see your point, however i belive that we also need to balance the ammo to the Armor. Bsg nerved ammo as they changed the armors system, now the armor coverage is basicly as before but the ammo you have just does not pen

[@vladilisescu4580]

What if they added an end game trader with a bunch of the meta gear but you'd be limited to something like 3 purchases per day, and the quests that unlock meta ammo, meta armour etc would just unlock it to be bought from that 1 trader. This would still incentivise you to complete those quests while also heavily limiting the amount of times you can run it. It would also put a lot more of the meta gear in circulation for lower lvl pmc's to possibly get.

[@Suger5zero]

I believe we need to implement the changes that you outlined here.But also have realistic hit boxes for the armor

[@TheBrick534]

No matter what BSG does, they can't make everyone happy. They've put themselves in this spot of trying to completely and totally please both casual and hardcore players and it simply leads to the issues we see now and the game lacking identity. Whatever the current vision of the game is needs to be solidified at BSG and they need to stop trying to pander to everyone. No game IS for everyone, period, and that's okay.

[@amysakalov6915]

While making higher tier armor more rare would help... that only works if it's actually rare which would require BSG to actively monitor how much of it was and implement a cap on how many can be around at all. Even then all that's going to happen the majority of the time is that people with high tier armor will end up being high skill players who will, upon defeating someone else with high tier armor, find some location they can yeet their insured high tier armor where no one else can get at it (closed, bathroom stalls, over walls that are out of bounds, into lakes, etc.) while grabbing the other high tier armor which they'll book it out with. Sure on occasion they might get 1 tapped in an armor gap or get their legs blown to hell and die, but generally speaking it'll just be a case of "the rich get richer" as armor which can make you a tanky boy will get priority because survival is the number one priority. The only way to fix this is to rework insurance to stop "insurance scamming". Nothing about Tarkov's systems is designed to encourage "fun play" or "let's go look for rad PVP moments". Those things emerge as a result of how punishing the game can be and thus how much of a high people get from winning fights. But the systems themselves simply aren't actually trying to push you towards any other end than a brutally punishing scramble for survival where you can get killed at any moment and where anyone who isn't you is a potential threat to your survival. (You know I'm right too Jesse. If Tarkov's systems were just SO AMAZING for PVP specifically then people would be streaming and making Arena videos instead of Tarkov. Additionally, the idea of "find, use, loose, repeat" is just fundamentally at odds with how most people want to play games. You don't see people going to MMOs and saying, "Man. You know what I want? To go fight the hardest boss so I can get that sick new sword which will break in 2 months so I can go grind for it again." Now, are there people that DO want to play games like that? Absolutely. But in order for you to build games with "find, use, loose, repeat" game play loops the game has to have a relatively short life cycle. Look at Rust and how a huge portion of servers for that game wipe on 1, 2, or 4 week schedules. Enough time to get gear, build a base, have some fun, then move on before things get too stale. But say what you will, no one wants to play tarkov that way an I can prove it with one simple fact. You can reset your account every 3 weeks. So, if people love being reset, why don't they just do so every month? Because they know that others won't, and those others won't because they don't want to loose their stuff they put in lots of time getting. To end this off, it's my opinion that Tarkov just... isn't designed for what a lot of people want out of it. The things they enjoy are emergent game play built on top of foundations that are ill prepared to support them. That's why we see the wild swinging back and fourth of "armor op" "armor is worthless" back and fourth with every little change to armor, ammo, and even just where the game is along the play timeline past day zero (wipe). Every little push causes the whole house to shake and things to fall and break because, at the end of the day, Tarkov's foundational designs are that of a punishing survival game where the only win condition is survival and where nothing else matters.

[@ashrises9811]

Largely agree with your description of the problem with EFT current iteration of the gear economy. The bell curve charts were an excellent tool for illustrating the rather large discrepancy between casual players and players putting 3+ hrs everyday into the game. That said I do have some quibbles and points of further consideration. I think further discussion of trader limits & resets is needed in a future video and by the community at large. You accurately identify a major problem in EFTs economy. A work from home player or someone else who can buy 4 to 6 trader resets a day will have infinite ammo & top gear without playing raids & risking it. While the casual player may only have a single reset worth or items for their play session. This is a problem that I believe can only be addressed by changing how trader resets work. Traders resetting on a 24 hr or even weekly basis (while also increasing personal limits somewhat proportionally) would equalize the discrepancy of gear availability between casuals and grinders. Furthermore, it would make it easier to balance personal limits such that players would have the 18+ class 5 & 6 armor options every 3ish hours you reference in your video. I think you may be understating how much removing class 5 armor from traders would affect armor progression which has already been flattened by the introduction of plates. If the traders do not offer class 5 armor/ plates armor progression basically ends as soon as you hit level 17 (arguably level 15 because at that point you can buy class 4 plates & armor on the flea). Ragman begins offering class 4 plated armor at loyalty level 2 (PMC level 18). There would be some progression on level 3 traders, some arm protection, class 3 aramid plate carriers, but it is pretty minor and unrewarding and I fear it would result in the return of the TV-110 meta (or an equivalent) rather than the diversification of armor which seems to be one of your goals here. Part of the problem here is that there are 4 trader levels and only 3 armor class options under your proposal (2, 3, & 4). You could try to establish a sense of progression by have only class 2 on lvl 1 traders, class 3 on lvl 2, class 4 plates on lvl 3, and class 4 plates with class 3 aramid on lvl 4. However, I suspect this would prove unsatisfying to the majority of the player base as until players start hitting level 3 traders they will be dying to scavs in

[@RichardJNeo]

100% agree on this. Early wipe is so much fun building the best loadout you can from the parts you find and take. It’s more about skill than gear.

[@CatacombD]

This is exactly the same thoughts I've had on the issue. Top tier plates are a little too available, and some mid-high tier ammo is too limited.

[@CottonballSteve]

This is good, as a lv24, no flea obv, I'm living this loop rn. Pretty ballin.

[@ashelby5628]

There is a couple of things they could do about the armor. A: Reduce availability of armors of 5 and 6 tier. Especially 6. No Bastion topper, no Cult plates. I think the ballistic masks, especially the Russian ones, are fine because of the visibility. B: Make higher tier ammos more available. Not the best solution imho as the ceiling would raise for low level players and they would die easier.

[@dayne0987654321]

If you’re below like 30 strength, it doesn’t matter if you find a good armor, you can’t wear it without becoming a turtle

[@OverDose775]

You forgot to say for the issue with armor hands. The hands absorb damage and armor penetration and then your tier 6 armor take less. For that reason shotguns and the smgs are extremely useless. The whole mechanic sux hard. They must do when your hands are blackout the damage must spread to your thorax or you take critical hits with double damage. But i think the hands and the desing are the biggest problem and the people with insanely good pcs have 1 to 2 second advantage from the normal PCs

[@getjarred3420]

not only would having to find good armor and ammo in raid make for a more rewarding experience, it would also give the "shitty" ammo types more usages and thus make the game feel like less of a grind to get that better gear and ammo.

[@Tychus]

That plus variations on what you already said about the flea would do great good. As a Dad with not so much time to play (half a dozen hours a week at most), late wipe is insufferable for me, as I don't have access to good armor nor ammo that could beat lvl 5 or 6 armor.

[@kalobmcnight2749]

My opinion is that they shouldn't have increased the armour hitbox sizes, but instead divided the chest hitbox into A and C zones to simulate vitals. I do agree changing the gear distribution is extremely important too. Good video with good points.

[@Thatsaltygrunt]

They wanna shoot for realism, but if you’re wearing a high mobility plate carrier your important organs and spine are protected with small side plates. Even with chonky armor it’s not much more with plate coverage it just adds soft armor on parts like shoulders neck and thighs.

[@RookiePlaysWZ]

Congrats on 200k Jesse! Not sure how long ago you hit it but 200k is huge!

[@ctaskatas5898]

I’ve been saying for a few wipes now that I want high tier ammos and armors to be really rare so when you encounter it, it feels high tier. With the current distribution, it feels like if you ARENT running high tier, then you are self handicapping. I want seeing a guy with a Zabralo or Killa armor to inspire fear and not just be another average gun fight

[@seantyler380]

I think the only thing being is the second you take tier 5-6 the meta becomes tier 4 and armors seem not good enough because good ammo access is always there and shreds through tier 4

[@1wolftrot]

Slow content week? Guy who’s career it is to play Tarkov finds that armor is to easy to acquire - go figure. Me, working an average job, 40 hours a week, 3rd wipe - never seen max traders. Think half the problem with Tarkov is BSG listening to “content creators” and adjusting their game to them, only to find out the content creators need new content, and the same ol’ Tarkov won’t cut it. Gotta change something. You get this cyclical kind of thing going on.

[@isaac6077]

Ye kinda

[@DDxRaptor]

I think you've made a really solid point on the current issue and I can stand behind that. Although I might say that I've mostly moved on from the discussions about what's causing balancing problems, because most people tend to not see the bigger picture here. It's the mix between all gameloops and features instead of just one, hence why I'm usually not the biggest fan of in-depth analysis of meta builds and all that, because in the end, Tarkov can and will punish you, no matter how much experience or gear you have. That plays into the reason why I actually like the addition of wire traps in the new wipe. Not because it'll incentivise people to camp more, but because it brings a new level of danger with it that can lurk behind pretty much every corner and is dangerous for everyone, cuz in this game, there's really no way to avoid getting killed by grenades apart from cover and enough distance. No matter how much armor you might have on you. It sort of balances out the meta grind imho and, how should I say, democratizes the experience a bit. At least at the start of this new wipe, or hopefully even longer, people will play a bit more thoughtful just because of this risk. I can't wait for 90% of the community to complain about wire traps ^^

[@SaltySlimeGoblin]

I'm part of the camp that wants no high tier armor from traders or flee. It should feel really good finding great armor, but it's annoying when everyone has it

[@Pat-The-Fat]

I agree with this as the main reason to play Tarkov for me is the fear of losing my best gear, looting the best gear and killing someone and taking his gear. With that said, they'd need to improve the loot in "average" key rooms like the Hotel on streets, the random ones on reserve, customs, maybe shoreline and ground zero and not only 10 million roubles marked rooms.

[@tepidbeach4630]

The problem I see with defining an end game this late, is that the dev team already has an end game, which at the end of it all is to escape tarkov; we've not been shown that end game AT ALL. There's entire quest lines and trader unlocks that we haven't been given, because Nikita has made it very clear he doesn't want to reveal the end game before release. So yes, there can be a technical end game, but how will defining a technical end game before the actual end game is given to us effect play styles and progression? I would assume the time it would take to actual "Complete" the game will nearly double due to how many quests we've already got. I just feel like right now, they're testing literally every mechanic to make sure things are where they should be before they give us their end game.

[@tepidbeach4630]

I think at the end of the day, if they we're to dial back the armor changes where there was always that chance of a bullet missing a plate, but also still very reliable that would help with TTK and game feel. Then to pretty much completely eliminate barters/purchasable High end ammo and strictly leaving it crafts w/ long craft timers and FIR but upping the spawns in high traffic areas/or on bosses. This rewards people who play the game and take risks. However I still think BSG is simply testing the mechanics of a game for 1.0 release.

[@areyoutheregod]

100% agreed. Reliance on only looting whatever costs more ruins the excitement of looting for me. I want to be excited to find a cool barrel or armor plate or stuff like that. Long-term, i wanna be excited about finding a specific screwdriver, not just literally say "there are 200 types of trash items in this game which i will literally never pick up because of their moneyary value" and think "ooh, its that pack of nails I needed to build/barter!"

[@jordanprince6206]

A year or two ago, finding a slick in a crate was the best feeling.

[@treevance2023]

I agree the armor changes that you suggested, and think its a great idea. Finding the high tier armor in raid would be a great change as it does give the entire community something to search for even into the late part of wipe or even for servers that never wipe there will be those players searching and facing bosses and challenging areas to get those higher tier 5 and 6 armors. Percentage chances of finding such armors would need to be looked at, the places of finding these armors should be around boss's guarding the loot or bosses' having the high tier armor on themselves. Kind of like in fantasy, "the magic armor of greatness and badassness is guarded by the boss dragon". Additionally, with high tier ammo it should be something that 'we' the players of eft need to create. The time and effort into making each round of high tier piercing goodness should be something special, the traders can sell things at their higher tiers to help craft the higher tier ammos. The ammos of 'mid tier' and 'lower', they are still bullets and viable, these ammos have damage and well placed shots can/should be able take down any target. But that's why the high tier ammos that you craft would be necessary as its like gearing up for a boss raid because you load a 2 mags and thats all you got but it might be just enough to face the boss and get some good gear. something that is rare to you alone if you succeed. When you know your facing a boss out in the wild with mediocre gear they should be feared. unless you have the high tier ammo, that could be adjusted that only works on bosses and is less effective against other players.. that ammo you made to have that face off with the big boss that has that good armor.

[@corywo7693]

I think they need to bring back good ammo craft in hide out. 762 bp, 995, m61.

[@B.D.B.]

The root of the issue is not that armor is too OP or too widespreed. It's the usage of "realistic" armor model without a realistic health/damage model. Realistic coverage of armor doesn't work when getting shot in the shoulder is the same as getting shot center chest. If you are going for realistic coverage you also need to implement vital organs hitbox and get rid of the HP pool model. If you get hit in a vital area you die, otherwise the only risk is bleeding out. I would love to try it, but I doubt it will make for good gameplay.

[@korlic9]

whenever i am doing a reality check or feel out a scenario i often imagine the extremes in order to more clearly understand the entirety of the variables being analyzed. 1 up for that Jesse i like the way you think.