Army Building and a New Model Revealed for the New Edition of the Middle-earth Strategy Battle Game!

[@Primordian-P]

One of the appeals of the "Fantasy" genre is to see those interesting "what if…" situations play out. The broader world of Middle Earth is fascinating, and would surely have other situations occur beyond those just seen in the films. Thematic armies are good as options. There should be elbow room for many other interesting combinations that would be plausible in the setting.

[@twotreesgaming]

Having just come back from Throne of Skulls (super themey tourney) and seeing what cool combos people came up with there, I am going to miss a big aspect of that!

[@jamesmaclennan4525]

You are right that it's a good idea in theory to have more themed list but in practice we'll see the same 4 or 5 lists used by everyone and the others will just be ignored. I am not personally enthused by any of the lists but YMMV.

[@twotreesgaming]

I guess this depends how balanced everything is. At the GT (competitive tourney) for the previous edition, there was definitely more bears, assault on lothlorien, WK + Suladan lists near the top, I imagine we'll see the same level of variety as things come and go in the meta but hopefully with such a lot of lists to choose from that will take time. But I'm also not 100% on it, just leaning that way...

[@finnbruton7274]

Re-rolling 1s seems to be GWs answer to everything in this edition. I always find it a bit of a paltry rule but better than nothing.

[@Competentetyler]

How about, “Roll a D6. On a roll of a natural 6, “x” does/doesn’t happen.” Seeing that a ton as well.

[@craig3111]

For competitions it’s makes sense to be stricter on army building but I think it hurts the variety and creativity of the game. It’s fun to see people create an army of allegiances of different types. Like dwarves teaming up with eagles or something t

[@hunsler1006]

I was also really looking at building a road to helm's deep. Really happy with that list becoming a thing

[@CapitanMee]

There's a fool's hope that the riders of Rohan would be coming out separately in a War of the Rohirrim source book that would have scenarios from the movie that take place away from the battle of Edoras, I feel like the fact that the photos of the new miniatures (Freca helm, Hamma...), at least as far as I remember seeing, have not been taken with the old riders of Rohan indicate that that they might be releasing update rider miniatures in the near future when the War of the Rohirim book drops. This fool at least remains hopeful.

[@twotreesgaming]

Maaaaybe ! I would be very happy if that was the case 🤞🤞🤞

[@Spunj420]

Great video as always

[@joshcoles1255]

Personally think armies of middle Earth should’ve dropped alongside these two, Lothlorien my main army is missing majority of its main things 💀😂 One army list I was hoping for before we saw stuff was separating Lindon and Rivendell High elves which they did! However imo Gil-Galad should’ve had 3 fate in the Lindon list and 1 in last alliance. Also I can take the horse being lost but his shield should’ve stayed an option in the new book his profile is literally on a page with him pictured with a shield also it’s mentioned in the lore. I do think evil seems more fun to play seeing most of the armies now with monsters etc, also did you notice a lot of re rolling ones as armies special rules I get a couple but there seems to be a crazy amount 😅

[@Competentetyler]

Re-rolling 1’s and “Roll a natural 6 and this does/doesn’t happen.” 100% agree. Armies of Middle Earth being delayed is a huge delivery error. “Hey, let’s use this new movie to launch the edition and get everyone hyped. Let’s also kill all that hype when we tell half of them to wait around until we allow them to come back to the party.” I actually think Evil got nerfed into oblivion with the game crushing Magic, neutering Strike, and bringing up Fight Value. But hey Trolls have 4 Wounds 😂

[@joshcoles1255]

@ Ngl the hobbit book is what actually kept me still really excited for the new edition purely because those armies still sort of feel like what I was using in the old one. Think with the armies of the LOTR it’s harder when they want to do just what you see in the films because we don’t see every faction fighting with all their stuff in that trilogy. Yeah the 3rd book is needed ASAP because like half of Loth is missing for example and Easterlings… you can just chuck a few into a Mordor list 😂 I think it’ll take the most getting used to building lists (I always built thematic) but like having to take certain stuff in certain lists just a big change from last edition

[@craig3111]

I get it that you’d want to avoid absurd armies that don’t make much lore sense such as Gandalf the white with Dain and Boromir etc. just doesn’t make sense timeline wise. But it’s good to be creative and come up with alternative realities.

[@twotreesgaming]

Yeah I do agree. I guess it's "policing it" is what's difficult.

[@joshmortimer3831]

I love the Hera sculpt and the paint colours, her special abilities should be really good aswell. But I agree it did make me think of Kill Bill. Thanks for video

[@twotreesgaming]

We should paint her yellow - Uma Thurman style! 😅

[@HaywireZombie84]

I'm of mixed opinion on it. More theme-y armies are great, but the hampering of the hobbying element (limiting units to only certain wargear kits, removing wargear options entirely) puts a sour taste in my mouth

[@twotreesgaming]

I can go with that tbh, some of the strange wargear combos may now actively feel unthematic, like rangers of Gondor with spears and bow but elves without. It'll probably standout on the table but I'm very happy to be moving away from some of the grosser soupy lists and a banner carrying seven different weapons 😅

[@Edward-Plantagenet]

The more I think about this new edition the more I’m convinced that they started by taking a carving knife to the inventory and deleted all the models they no longer wished to sell and then further deleted all the profiles they didn’t have models for (no doubt realising that 3d printing was providing the models that GW weren’t supplying and of course GW weren’t getting any revenue from that). All they’ve done then is create a bucket load of LL lists with all the creativity sucked out of them. Middle Earth Bland Strategy Game, let’s see what the next cartoon brings. Pass.

[@Ishlol1]

I completely agree that they missed Héra’s likeness, which is unfortunate as I was really looking forward to her model. Oh well 😂

[@mrlukesir486]

It seems that across the board they’re trying to reduce the number of specific special rules in the game. I’ve got mixed feelings about this as it definitely makes the game more approachable or learning a new army easier. But it does also leave a poor taste in my mouth as I liked how unique these rules made different lists feel. I’m interested to see how they’ll handle lists like the Fellowship following this new philosophy. I’m all here for more ‘themy’ lists though as that’s already how I tended to build mine. Anyways thank you for another great vid 👍

[@twotreesgaming]

Yeah, I'm wondering if some models will have more specific rules like Eowyn and Theoden currently do, rather than tying them to a legion. Less to learn is definitely a good thing but when a rule makes thematic sense I always find them easier to remember as you kind of expect it, if that makes sense. Long live thematic rules! 😂

[@colinspeirs]

"legions of Middle-Earth" is where this game started to lose fun for me, not because I was fielding unlikely combinations, because I wasn't, and one of my favourite moments playing was defeating an army where someone tried to cheese it by using that against them, but I do not like the strict proscribed Warhammer-esque proscribing plausible possibilities. Having not only boxed sets made illegal in the last edition, but 20 year old minis now gone from the game, I think, despite your enthusiasm, I am done with this game. Not with wargaming in Middle-Earth, that is how I started wargaming in 1978, just now with giving GW a single extra penny I am not saying you shouldn't have fun with this and continue to enjoy it, I realise that it is no longer for me, and that is sad

[@twotreesgaming]

Sorry, been away at a tourney - this is sad! I appreciate it won't be for everyone. 😔

[@DarkPretender205]

Wonder why the defence of Rohan list cant use both Rohan and Wood elves, if the legions are meant to depict the movie?

[@gwid359]

it can

[@twotreesgaming]

The "ride out" list can't but there's a separate list for defending the walls that can 😁

[@deanparsons2895]

Thanks for being leak-free and finding the fun in it all. The leak obsession takes the fun out of it sometimes. The rules won't change for another 10 years so don't know why people are so desperate to see them ahead of time😂

[@tylerframpton2113]

Overall I'm a big fan of the armies being themed. The loss of factions and models to legends I still don't like and I'm hoping that the 3rd book that contains all the book models is good and mixes well with the film based books

[@alastairkitching6441]

Respecting your spoiler free approach I am not going to comment on specific lists that have been leaked. I am broadly a ‘themey’ player. I take lore adhering lists. I would not take, for example, a Fellowship combo of Aragorn with Anduril and Boromir because (regardless of tabletop efficiency) it directly contradicts Middle Earth lore. The above said, I am not at all enthusiastic about the change to list building. I do not feel it hits the narrative enjoyment of playing scenarios (surprisingly enough called Narrative play). Unless you go down the scenario route law contradicting match-ups are unavoidable, whether good vs good, characters that lived hundreds of years apart, or both. It deliberately places heavy restrictions on war game list building (which I guess is the point). I am sceptical that it improves balance - with so many lists and special rules it is inevitable that there will be varying power levels. In short I am not sure who this approach caters for. The announced rule changes have been largely positive, but the change to lists has moved me from an ‘early adopter’ to a ‘wait and see’ approach.

[@Competentetyler]

Love the way you worded this.

[@twotreesgaming]

Sorry, been away. Yeah I fully see that view point and I'm not 100% sold either. The only counter I would have is that losing to a random mix like a Theodred and King Aragorn doesn't feel great, when you're hamstrung because you've chosen theme. I get that I don't have to but it's nice to be rewarded for being themey. The flip side is it's waaaay more restrictive, even some themey lists won't be possible now...

[@alastairkitching6441]

@@twotreesgaming Personally I don’t disagree 😉 - I cringe a little when I see a "Middle Earth" army that clearly is not from Tolkien's Middle Earth (too heavily invested from a youth with my head in LotR, the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales...). However, others see the game differently and there is nothing wrong with that. The current edition allows players room to enjoy the game in a variety of different ways. From the initial material the same cannot be said of the new edition. Playing the participants from one side of a specific scenario against the force from another random scenario does not really scratch the itch of recreating the world/battles of Middle Earth in miniature form, not for me at least. For now I will wait and see.

[@robbo2099]

@6:16, don't you mean better than it used to be? LOL

[@twotreesgaming]

Haha I mean the value of Fight 4 isn't what it used to be because more things are going up, but I appreciate that looks like I'm saying Minas Tirith are getting worse 🤦‍♂️😂

[@cf8476]

I fully support the changes. I love when games focus on thematic elements and emphasize strategic wits during gameplay rather than spending lots of time writing an army list that just happened to be a good combination. I guess no commander spends endless hours selecting their forces-they simply make use of what they have and put their strategies to the test :). This system will also likely improve the game's balance.

[@twotreesgaming]

I couldn't agree more that I would love it to be more about the battlefield tactics. And meta-players will find their niche anyway, the invisible walls just moved a bit is all, as they did with the previous edition. Overall, I'm happy and I think it's going to be a very good new edition of the game! 😁

[@Edward-Plantagenet]

Not sure I’m sold on this. The loss of the named wraiths is a definite dumbing down IMO and just to screw it down even further, you can take a dull as dishwater wraith (but only on a fell best) in a list with one of the most boring army rules I’ve ever seen. Not really impressed at all. If I wanted to play a list that was STRICTLY composed of models seen from a scene in the movies I could that already with the current version. With the new version though you can’t do anything else. Yes you can wait for the Armies of Middle Earth Book and the Legends PDF and it might improve, hey why should anyone not want 4 books when previously 2 did the job?

[@twotreesgaming]

Yeah, I'm not 100% either. I want to see how it shakes out, but I'm not disagreeing with you...

[@_ccann]

I think the idea that 90% of gamers don’t care about being competitive and just want to put their models on the table and have fun is flawed. Maybe a plurality of players just want to have a fun easy game, but I’d wager the number of games those players play in a year is a small fraction of the number those focused on tournaments and competitive lists play. The former group had plenty of ways to get models on the table for a casual fun game, but now everyone is funneled into this restrictive system.

[@twotreesgaming]

Yeah, I see your point and I'm not 100% on it. I know that pre MESBG when army building was less restrictive, I did attend tournaments purely because of the armies I would read about..didn't feel like going to play middle-earth to me. I'm sure I was only hearing about "shock value" armies, but there is merrit to making it more themey. But whether it's a little too far is a fair question too...

[@BeyondMeasure07]

Come on now, see past the hype and find reason. I really don’t think this is good at all. It’s all well and good saying it’s gonna be themey, but in reality, it really isn’t. Sure, when you’re going through the lists it sounds good cause you’re imagining these forces in the right setting, against the right opposition. But when you get the reclamation of Osgiliath facing off against the besiegers of the Hornburg, in the middle of a dwarven kingdom; you’re not capturing any theme. You’ve just got a limited list in the most random encounter ever. You’re not recapturing anything from the films. I hate to say it but this new system is just straight up bad. All they’ve done here is create narrative play scenario lists. Awful

[@twotreesgaming]

Haha yes I suppose this true. But one of the last games I played competitively was against a King Aragorn, a Theodreds, Forlong with mostly Fountain Court frontline. This will stop that (in theory). There's no real explaining the story of the army there which I don't love and there's no reason not to have powerful thematic lists... I'm definitely not 100% sold on it, but I do sway toward it being a good change.

[@BeyondMeasure07]

@@twotreesgamingdon’t get me wrong I do like these lists, but as legendary legions. We all love theme, but I know a lot of people also like to create lists from an ‘alternate’ scenario which could have happened should the story have veered in some way. There should still be a place where you can throw everything from one faction into an army (obviously in the appropriate era). And that’s me speaking as a purist who never runs yellow alliances

[@convertediron]

I do not like her model. I think that old man helm, freca and the new unit models are the only good models from the new range. Wulf, the general, and hera just dont look great. I like your chann tho.

[@twotreesgaming]

She's the only miss for me at the moment, I'm actually a big fan of Wulf! At least it's a new model, and long may that continue 😅😂

[@convertediron]

@twotreesgaming im always happy to have new models. I just dont like any model where they are hunched over. Awkward to paint, awkward on table. Could be this game, or could be leman russ Naruto running at magnus.

[@jameshogg601]

Paint job makes or breaks them