Army list building WITH POINTS!

With most new Napoleonic gamers coming in via GW or other games, I thought I'd build a list using the points values given in the Black Powder supplements. First I shine a light on the stigma that points games have in historicals, particularly Napolenics, before pointing out why they're not only the domaine of the hard core tournament gamer.
If Orders of Battle are more your thing, check this mini series out!
I'm expecting this to be a controversial video, so please leave your comments below!.

[@PsykerKaregg]

When I mentioned points that was exactly the reception i received in the Black Powder Facebook group. I agreed with all your points and i appreciate you sticking up for new people to the hobby who have migrated from other systems.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

It really annoys me. It's so decisive in a tiny subset of a tiny hobby. It drives new people away, and it classic gatekeeping! Keep the faith dude, we're not all like that!

[@PeteScete]

It's the reason I stoped using the BP fb group there snobbish ways pissed me off

[@peterfmodel]

Totally agree with you. The big advantage of an army list is it helps a new player to create a force mix which may be useful, without purchasing too many figures. But even if you are using an historical TO&E, you need to method to ensure a game is reasonably balanced and using points is one method. Of course if you are playing a set of rules which allows you to field an entire army, then go for historical conflict. But few sets of rules allow you to refight Ligny within a day. This video provides my attempt to provide a guide for creating a Prussian army. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWWXgoSan894gLc

[@klappspatenkamikaze]

We like to use a randomized chart which troops the two sides get, so you have: a) a roughly equal force strength. b) a force which could have existed. c) you can't plan everything exactly - like in history. So you have the best out of two worlds (oob and points): - a historic feeling - no minmaxing - roughly equal forces - no research necessary. its quickly build

[@fogh]

An interesting and thought provoking video. I typically play based on historical OOBs, but I completely agree that points systems, as you outline, can be a great way to get people in to a game. It is so important to make periods / games accessible. The first napoleonic war-games book that I read advised that, if you paint one ordinary line battalion for every other type of unit, you wouldn't go far wrong. Plenty of time to obsess about historical OOBs once you have got enough troops for a game! It's all toy soldiers at the end of the day, so getting figures on the table is the important thing. Keep up the great work.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Exactly! However you get to throwing dice, that's where I'm at!

[@maryhinge6334]

Interesting chat Tim. I can’t disagree with any of that. I’m happy to play either points-based games or historical scenarios. The main thing is that you have a good game and either can be a valid way of getting there. 👍

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

PREACH! :D

[@TableTopWolf1984]

Honestly as someone who got started with GW and knew nothing about those games, coming into Napoleonics can be very daunting because of the lack of points, its why bolt action was such an easy conversion, people need to realise the new historical gamers are ex GW people and you will lose them if games dont change to suit potential customers, I bought the black powder book and got completely lost in it, but a book like Battile Empire or Eagle Rampant the Napoleonic version of lion rampant was such a breath of fresh air because all of a sudden I knew what units were what. The future of gaming is skirmish or games which can be played in an hour and half to two hours and the ones who dont want it to change will realise they are slowly drifting into unexistance and that their enjoyment for the hobby should be kept personal, as not everyone enjoys the hobby for the same reasons and they should attempt to pass the torch onto the next batch not shun them away.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

I can only hear this comment once! Its exactly why I made the video, and I can heartily recommend giving BP another look with the supplements the points values in (I think of them as Codexes)

[@TableTopWolf1984]

@@NapoleonicWargaming I only have the first edition book and never bothered with the supplements because for me they should be in the main rulebook. My drifting away from GW happened because they kept pumping out rulebooks and supplements to buy, I'm very content with Battile Empire and I'm still building my Napoleonic's but like you said in the video, it gives me a goal when it comes to painting unlike Black Powder did.

[@AndysEastCoastAdventures]

The Albion Triumphant Vol2 Black Powder supplement book has a points system in the back similar to Bolt Action.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Fair enough! As long as you're enjoying it your way, that's the most important thing!

[@j.allen.howard]

Just getting into Napoleonics, and your videos are AMAZING! Thank you for all you do!

[@scotty7906]

Great video, Very good advice on points. Totally agree that a points system can help new starters

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Thanks bud, I certainly think so

[@PhD777]

Games Workshop's writers (Priestly, Johnson, et al) had their starts with WRG (Wargames Research Group) and WRG's Historical army lists with points values! (Yes, something else to blame Phil Barker for! 🤣🤣🤣 Joking aside, we love ya Phil - Happy 90th Birthday!)

[@michamalinowski8015]

I think you can have the best of both worlds. For instance when you are creating a core for your army you will select the regiments within the cores brigades by buing them with points, but only up to a historical limit, and have compulsory units that always made a brigade. So for instance when creating a Prussian brigade you can buy two regiments consising of musketeers/fusiliers and one regiment of landwehr or one regiment of musheteers/fusiliers and two of landwehr with extra points for better cavalry or jagers or foot arillery that can be added to the brigade. This should be historically accurate and also gives you some customization.

[@StormofSteelWargaming]

Good video and good reasoning for using points. I rarely use them, but understand the requirements for either making a balanced game for newbies or just to help people understand how an army should look. This hobby is big enough for everyone to play with their toy soldiers as they want.

[@alejandrotabilo1988]

I would like to see it on the table as well as you create the army, and yes, I would like to see other armies. We play around 800 points and you can bring whatever you like, but we also use Scenarios and I have done scenarios with points. I found that all approaches work very well.

[@AndysEastCoastAdventures]

Had the Albion Triumphant Vol2 delivered yesterday and this has a points system in the back. Unless you play historical renactments everytime you need something to build an army. It's similar to the Bolt Action rules and gives options for what type of units the army should have to create a level of realism. See nothing wrong with a points system. Every other game uses it.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

My feeling exactly. That's a super cool book, mine now lies flat when I open it it's been thumbed through so much!

[@ratelmike8825]

Absolutely spot on Tim, although I served in the SADF, I spent 5 magnificent years with the Army Cadets LNR ACF so I the very first Battalion i had to have and paint up were the 48th foot now the Royal Anglians.

[@leonleese4919]

I played competition games fr the mid 1970’s to the mid 1980’s. and enjoyed all of it with the exception of arriving at the table for my first game on Saturday morning only to be told when making my first move “you can’t do that , it’s been changed and then having the umpire interrupting with other changes through. It’s usually better to leave players alone and only intervene when there was a dispute. For club games rule changes or additional rules should be written dow for every player. This makes a friendlier atmosphere for gaming. Most Napoleonic games of necessity, have to be fought on a 6’ X 4’ table better would be 8’ X 5’ not to put more on the table , but to give more open flanks.. I started using 25mm Hinchliffe and Mini. Figurines but by the end of 1976 for club games we were using Mini.Figs. 15mm figures on a 18’ X 6’6” table. The problem we had with this games became too ambitious as games were spread over weeks. I remained in favour of small pick up games. More fun, and if you lost or were loosing by the end of the evening player could start again with adjustments to the army the improve the game. 2000 to 2200 army points. I Line Battalion could be from a minimum of 20 figures to a maximum of 40 figures at 4 points per figure light infantry an grenadiers cost 2 points extra. Upto 20 heavy cavalry and 20 light cavalry Total maximum cavalry 400 points. 1 battery of horse or foot artillery. A CinC and a cavalry brigadier. a 20 figure Light Infantry Regiment may be purchased. Also a militia battalion if you wanted bulk. The idea was to keep the armies reasonably the original armies. A Class Guard. B Class Grenadiers or well trained veterans. C Class Line regiments. D Class Militia infantry or cavalry. If it isn’t in the army list you can’t have it. An infantry line was a single rank of figures. A road column was 2 figures wide. A column of companies was 1 company wide and a column of divisions was 2 companies. Simple rules where alterations can be tried. The main thing to look at you can’t play Borodino in 3 hours but a pick up game with some of the problems but on a smaller scale can be played.. My first game was with Airfix Guardsmen an WWI Germans with Peter Young’s Charge! rules great fun for big battles. (Look on Amazon).

[@viewin1]

Good show! Well said, I really enjoy your channel. I am new to Napoleonic's War gaming, but your content really helps me enjoy the period. The points value helps with the learning curve for sure. If you could do a points value review for both Prussians and Russians early to mid war period, that would be greatly appreciated! Cheers form the other side of the Pond.

[@mcpanzer4637]

Heartily agree with you on the use of points for club games! I enjoy wargaming out OOBs with the rest of the grognards, but we use points for pick up games. I watched so many people bounce off of the hobby when they thumb through the blackpowder book and realize there aren't army lists in the base game, prior to albion and eagles.

[@pw972]

Another great video. Please continue this format

[@alejandrotabilo1988]

I completely agree with your point of view. The only thing I would like to see if you make another point based OOB video is that I would like to see them on the tabletop. Cheers 🤠👍

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

That's a great idea!

[@michamalinowski8015]

To answer your question as a person who is at the momment making the transition from ancients to napoleonics- I do not feel the need for points, but maybe that's because as an historical wargamer I was never acustomed to points. For instace the system I took up- Gods of War: Napoleon uses both the point system, and a more popular system where you build a core with some restictions that try to adress both historical correctnes and balance. For me making an army this way- building a core according to guidelines of the time, is an new concept and I like it, because in ancients it was more about loosely creating an army with some scraps of data indicationg what units it would contain. Napoleonic were way more restrictive as we know not only each order of battle, we know even the color of facing and buttons of a given regiment. So napoleonics leave little in the way of imagination, but it has a cerain charm to it, because it forces you to do more research than other periods, like medieval or ancients, but unlike let's say WWII still gives you plenty of different fancy uniforms and exotic formations to work with. I think this period has the most "swag" when it comes to uniforms.

[@robertashford-platt8783]

great video. pleasw keep them up. being new to this and not yet started building an army or armies yet this is the information to spur me on. thank you. yes I love reading about the historical events but that information does not really prepare me for wargaming minitues, thanks again

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Thank you for watching dude! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@dtcspyker6599]

Thank you for this video. The section about building a force out of the Regiments that I myself am interested in is very validating for my ACW forces.

[@dupeesfashionconsultant4204]

Agree with you 100 percent. Occasionally I'd enjoy playing accurate historical battles, but my favorite part of wargaming is building units I like the most and building my custom army. Yes historical definitely has its place and I enjoy sometimes, but points and building my army to suit my strategy is the most appealing part of war games

[@gorram]

Thanks for making this video. I picked up Napoleonics as a new project whilst in lockdown and coming from Bolt Action, had no idea that points weren’t a thing. I don’t use Facebook and had I turned up to the club and only found it out then, it would have certainly given me pause about continuing. Gives me plenty to think about before picking up more boxes.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

I'd always say, play it your way! I love points, at school daydreaming about how I was going to use the last 100 points of my Empire army had just become me at work daydreaming about how I'm going to use my last 50 points on my French army!

[@jonathankilby6636]

Not a new historical player, but I find points useful. Especially for napoleonics, which is a newish period for me. And yeah started my first army (spanish) this month!

[@natewatts195]

I chose to do 5 brigade from 3rd division as well. I won’t do the whole division since the other brigades are made up of Hanoverians and Dutch. So now I’m taking British brigades from other divisions to make a British Division

[@stuartsimpson3696]

WRG horse and musket rules had points values. We used to play in competitions max value 2000pts

[@ratelmike8825]

As a complete newbie to Black Powder, yes Im one of the filthy peasants.....LOL. Loved that one... So points for me for the very reasons Tim points out here, is very handy to understand on my collection. That being said the other thing that im very much into, being ex military, is orders of battle. The massive history of Napoleonics is just such a draw for me and researching the armies and the military structure is my passion. Epic History video series on Napoleonics witht he maps and the battles is just brilliant. So for me a mixture of Order of Battle and points are goinf very much hand in hand. British Battles website is my go to for British order of battle for Peninsular war and then im using the Albion Triumphant for the points.

[@jabbamiles]

Use Orders of Battle for games and also create my own scenarios using historically plausible formations. Have used the BP points values to make sure these games aren't massively one sided as far as the rules go though.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Yeah, I think a hybrid is probably the best way to go!

[@Ridmasta]

Quite a number of my gaming club have started black powder napoleonics, with varying levels of knowledge of the period. I wanted to start it as I think it looks cool on the board and it’s very different from my three regular systems of AoS, KoW and LoTR. We all agreed at the start that we would aim for 500pt forces as we only have 6x4 boards available to us either at the club or at home, and we would all have roughly equal forces so it would be a test of generalship to get the win. I’m building an entirely Portuguese army, I often chose smaller factions in games, and I like the models available from Warlord and Perry’s, and also the dark blue scheme suits my painting style.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Nice! I agree, it's the spectacle I love about Naps. I've just recorded a game we played on a 6x4 table and we halved all distances. The worked pretty well, so keep an eye out for that a week on Sunday

[@Ridmasta]

@@NapoleonicWargaming Aye it’s definitely the spectacle that drew me to the game for sure! I’m the first to say that my ports aren’t as well painted individually as say my AoS Nurgle are, but ranked up on the board they look just as awesome hehe Looking forward to the battle report, I’ve really enjoyed both yours and 7th Sons vids to get us all into it 👍

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

@@Ridmasta oh god. I'm so sorry! 😂 You're absolutely right about the massed rank thing. General Dan was spending hours on each Austrian infantryman (like he would his Lord of the Rings minis), I was like, dude you've got 48 per battalion! You need to cut corners! He's got it now though and motoring along (his figures still look better than mine ever will!)

[@Ridmasta]

@@NapoleonicWargaming Haha I did the same with 6 of my mates in turning them to black powder. I think I have it down to 10hrs to get a 24 man battalion from undercoat to based now, it’s not too bad 😎

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

@@Ridmasta that's really good mate!

[@Lightman0359]

I found your video by searching up "how to build a black powder army". I help run a gaming store that is selling black powder (and other warlord games) and am the house DM, so I get the fun of learning games. I was looking for a way to make a pair of minimum sized store armies to run quick demos (my boss gave me the British and peninsular war boxes... had to download the rule book). I want to make the equivalent of a 40k 1hq/1-2 troops army for each to do quick tutorials.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Yeah that sounds good. I think you could easily play with a commander and 2 or 3 units plus a cannon. I'd probably allow battalions to issue their own orders to themselves. Where are you based?

[@Lightman0359]

@@NapoleonicWargaming Las Vegas.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

@@Lightman0359 bit far for me to come to a casual game 🤣. Never know though, if I ever hit up the LVO...

[@chicodanks5241]

Great video, I'm a wargaming player/collector which dips his toes into many systems/eras and done just about everything apart from (Until the last few weeks) Naps as I was always put off by lack of a better term ''Elite Snobs'' which frown upon points systems and such like, Rivet/button counters I can deal with but these not so much. Points systems make games more accessible and gives a structure to both collecting and gaming that is needed when first dipping your toes in.

[@Robin-fp6sx]

I'm one of those peasants who played GW (1995-2005) games...with points. I find the lack of point based armies odd and confusing. I liked the point based armies a lot. Now building my first BP army, but no clue what's good or bad. Scenario's only (or throw on the table what you have)...weird.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

You played GW? Get out sir! :D Scenario's are fine, but not the be all and end all. As I say, the main attraction to points for me is that I can individualise my armies

[@turfdorbrittlebeard1674]

LMFAO 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 "We don't use points you fealthy peasant.." OMG too funny, but true!!!

[@TwisstedSage]

Oh, thank you so much for opening this subject up. The thing is around here that Napoleonics are so old hat, I suppose, that people don't collect them anymore and I'm too late into the period to take advantage of sell offs. I can't do modern **(all 20th cent.) having seen the results up close and personal, which is what people here are interested in. Nor can I afford the Sci Fi or Fantasy of GW. So, I'm doing what I want, which is the Peninsula because Swiss, Irish, Polish, Bailen, and others before I actually have to crack on with Dark Blue battalions after battalions. With lots of white clad Spanish with a rainbow of colored trimmings, and Portuguese, and finally Brits, which will include the ultimate painting challenge, the Scots. I'm having fun collecting, painting and playing and that's what counts. Loved your take in this issue. Cheers.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

You do you buddy! I collectted for years before finding a gaming group, but once you've got the army you'll have it if and when you find people!

[@leonleese4919]

I’ve been a Napoleonic Wargamer for over 50 years. I enjoy scenarios based on a historical battle, but only if they pest an objective. However I love competitive games where you select an army based on points and there is a restriction on both cavalry and artillery. The rules I’ve always favoured are Trevor Halsalls’ Newbury rules. About 2,000 points will give you a brigade of infantry, a brigade of cavalry and a battery of artillery fighting on a 6 feet X 4feet This is a british army late peninsula war.

[@martinradcliffe4798]

Not the biggest fan of points but I can see the er…."point" of them. Anything that helps people over the barriers the hobby has- and there are a few- has to be a good thing.

[@shygye647]

Thanks for this video, I play GW and Battletech(Casual/narrative) so I was a little worried about not being able to just play a game for a night with some buds or create a regiment of my own. I just finished painting and basing the Waterloo starter set so I am very excited to play my first game.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Absolutely, do what you're familiar with. One of my up coming units will be the (made up!) South Essex!

[@Maxyshadow]

Thanks for addressing these points. I've been playing since the seventies and fielded armies selected by all the above methods. I must admit to being surprised by the online negative knee jerk reaction regarding points selection. Thanks for explaining it.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

It's weird because its normally from shall we say, established, gamers... and these guys grew up with WRG etc that used points! I don't know

[@Maxyshadow]

@@NapoleonicWargaming Me neither. :)

[@dupeesfashionconsultant4204]

There's a club relatively close to me that I went to occasionally. Now I'm still pretty green at this, I just started last year, but I still have much to learn. And another new player started there about a week after I did. Sometimes there are really good players who want to have fun and not be so rigid, but his first night he came there were some of the sticklers there. They actually told him he couldn't play a game with them because he had a British army and he painted all the collars and facings Yellow and didn't have the exact units that fought the battle they were playing. He was just starting and that was the last time I saw him, as far as I know he's never come back. It's said, they're killing their own game, it made me so frustrated that I almost never go anymore

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

God, I can imagine. That's a real shame to hear, but unfortunately I can absolutely believe it. In an event like The Gretaest Game, I made sure I had the correct units for my command, the right colours, I even converted a Lt Legros! But that was a year in the planning. For a club game, no chance. I often say my bicorned French have fought from the sands of Egypt to the mud of Waterloo and everywhere in between. Let the minis hit the table!

[@PhD777]

Excellent video!

[@CrossingObstaclesGaming]

People play historical wargames for all kinds of reasons. Some people want to research a battle to the tiniest detail, some people just want a bit of banter and roll some dice. The good thing is that this hobby fits both those, and everything in between. The point I'm trying to make here is: People play the way they want to, its their hobby, their time, and their money. People should never try and project their way of playing the game on other people, just because they think their way is "the correct way". Me and my regular gaming opponent have decided to go the points route while building our armies, but the aim is to play both historical battles with proper OOBs and points based games in the end. Lets us get painted models on the table quicker. I dont play black powder, so skipped the second half of the video. The first part was excellent!

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

I absolutely agree! Unfortunately they occasionally do :(

[@aaronsinsley8161]

I am looking into Napoleonic tabletop gaming and I got started in Warhammer 40K and Warhammer Fantasy. Point system would interest me over order of battle mostly cause it make it more fare in my mind.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Yeah absolutely. It's great for pick up games!

[@TorianTammas]

People want different things out of playing historical wargames. We have the I want to enjoy a game and have a balanced chance to win. Others just want to imitate the historic battle. What we often overlook is how much of realism do we want? Do we want to limit the gamer to move in the same way it happened historically? Why not well people like some influence and to be their own general. Points would allow you to not only choose the tactics on the table, but the choice of what to bring to the table and it is a totally new game.

[@alexdavies8768]

Thanks very informative and intesting . I would welcome an army list for an Austrian army suitable for 1809 bur could be used for 1812 as well. I think I may try a similar flavoured French army similar to the one you have compost instead of trying to stick rigid to OOB s .I fancy 1809 Saxons .

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Either approach is great, as long as it suits you and your gaming buddies!

[@jabbamiles]

Ref Austrians m.facebook.com/groups/1474743426079870?view=permalink&id=2583326245221577

[@leonleese4919]

Has anyone played in the Wargames championships Napoleonic. In the 1970’s to the 1980’s. Using Trevor Halsall’s Napoleonic Rules.

[@orionspero560]

I was thinking of getting into the game and I was thinking of starting with a brigade composed of 4 regiments of British light dragoons. I don't know precisely how that works as far as orders of battle And/or points. Also since light dragoons are mounted infantry....

[@damjan4435]

TFW 3 units of cuirassiers get behind u and are starting to charge

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Lip smacking!

[@malcolmconn8109]

Great video mate, agree with not religiously stick to orders of battle, starts to become a chore in the end. Prefer to paint regiments I like, much more enjoyable

[@MarekKrassus53]

Basically I don't understand ... why some players don't understand the point system. It is quite simple. The point system is to guarantee balance in random games. Two guys come to play a simple match, without an elaborate scenario. For example, a normal head-on fight. They wants to have a same chances so they use the point system. OdBs are fun ... but they are unlikely to be played in such randomized battles. OdB is used to recreate specific historical battles. These battles are played according to a scenario that usually has a lot of its own rules - to be able to better recreate the battle and give both sides a chance to win. Each game (which is a kind of "sandbox") should have a point system. Its existence does not exclude games with the use of OdB. I myself was once treated with "contempt" by Black Powder players ... although I am a man who has been working with historical systems for several years. Ps. Just think of a clash between the Spanish regiment (1808) and the French regiment ... without a point system, but only with the use of the OdB. Would such a fight be fun (without a decent script)?

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

I wish I could like this 10 times!

[@MarekKrassus53]

@@NapoleonicWargaming :)

[@MoggAssassin]

You want a wierd/frustrating way to choose a force look at Polemos.

[@paintinghistory1475]

Great watch!

[@Robin-fp6sx]

exciting!

[@battleknights9636]

Great vid bud ! I agree with your .....points 😉 .....puns over , im one of those rare breeds that dont really care for playing refights 😁

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Lol. Yeah, each to their own, but I think we should be willing to try each other's preferred style too

[@brianbarrett6879]

I have been playing Napoleonic wargames for years using WRG. rules. Never used points values in the back of the rules., but if someone wanted to use points values I would have no objections. I played 40k so points values make people feel like the game is fare. I set games up with OOB. Terrain makes a huge impact on Napoleonic battles. A bad terrain set up can ruin games.

[@geebards]

Points are handy to guide me to managing a selection from my collection to match up a game when I don't have all day or a whole weekend. I also find grand campaign games involving map based movements are better calculated using points.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Also excellent points! Especially the second one

[@mattcappelli5822]

I’m perfectly ok with points. The games I want to play are on a level playing field. If you want to recreate historical battles, it could be pretty lousy for the losing side and that doesn’t sound fun to me. But, at the end of the day, each person gets to hobby how they want. It’s their time and their money and no one should force their views on anyone. I am definitely interested in getting into napoleonics and wasn’t sure what game system to start with. Black powder seems to require a boatload of miniatures to start with. What would you recommend as a good place to start points wise? To get a feel of the game?

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

It does to an extent! You can easily play with units of 12 minus if you want, it's all relative! I'd start at maybe 300 points, I've started a series on how to start various armies, French and British so far with Russians and Austrians to come next

[@nickrhodes9031]

Haven't wargamed/attened a club since I was at school (so long ago that at the time Games Workshop was still a shop). At the time it seemed that points systems for any period from ancient to modern was a norm for casual/competition gaming. There was certainly no shortage of hobbyist publication army list selection material being generated. When did this change?

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

I think there's a suspicion of it. See some of the comments here, OOBs are used by 'proper' wargamers. If I'm honest, I think it's a way the historical crowd can feel superior over the 'filthy casuals'. I've heard before people say 'points are only good if you play for fun'. Why the hell else would you play a game?! 🤣

[@merlin4084]

The appeal to using a points based system is that you can be assured that your opponent is playing fairly. And when playing a game that is the second most important concern (the first being to have fun) How do you know that your opponent bringing 6 more units than you did wasnt because they just wanted to win at all costs? With a points based system, if he does bring those 6 extra units you know that somewhere he has sacrificed something ti get that numerical advantage, be that hes using unreliable or inexperienced troops, or he wasnt able to bring enough cavalry to counter yours, as you went heavier into cavalry. Or something like that. But the community and now Warlords aversion to points systems in this one particular game of theirs, just makes BP seem very unappealing. It gives the sense that there is no structure to the game and its only there for stuffy old men who want to replay battles of old instead of just playing the game for fun with anyone off the street. Its one of the reasons im not a particular fan of the BP game specifically. Theres too much snobbishness in the wider community and the rules i find to be too boring to play, or at least theres not enough meat on it to make games interesting. Ive played a couple others which were more fun, but they added far too much complexity inti what should be simple actions. So i decided to make my own set of rules based on the One Page Rules Fantasy Regiments rulebook. Simple enough to play with, but with enough special rules to make things interesting. At least thats the aim. Still have to playtrst it and make points costs gor units.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Some good points! I'd be interested to see your results!

[@merlin4084]

@@NapoleonicWargaming I'd be willing to show you the draft copy. Feedback is always good, though I don't know where I could upload it or send it to you... lol

[@socalgaming790]

I’d love a sample Russian army! I’m trying to get a friend to play and I just have him some Russians 😉

[@leonleese4919]

Would the orbat players keep playing if they couldn’t possibly win?

[@raymadi1122]

I agreed with all your points, love your videos

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Thanks bud!

[@raymadi1122]

Just keeping making your videos please

[@UlsterAndy]

Some good pts there. I normally base my British army to 4 inf bats per brg with one gun bat per 2 brigs.within the inf brigs I might have 3 inf one lt or rifle bats. Then you are getting into the realms of how much of your British should be classed as Vet? KGL yes, HighLanders yes and lunitics, 1st of foot yes, most Fuss bats yes. the Grd are Elites. then what about the rest of the line bats? we know that most inf bats would be Vets but it would be unfair to have a full army of Vets. in total 44 inf bats I also use the 3 bats that made up my old bat even though they never fought together as one unit. the 11th, 39th , 54th of foot I even have the South Essex with Mr Sharpe and Harper. Then you have the British Cav KGL Vets and easy to control, All British Cav before Waterloo a bunch on lunatics charge at anything, at Wartaloo the lt Cav learnt from its problems in Portugal and were easy to control, but the Hvy Cav had not . My Cav is 3 units per brig each broken down into hvy and lt. I can throw out 3 lt cav brigs and 2 hvy cav brigs. with H art each bat and for fun one rct bat

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

I'll be doing one on the brits!

[@PsykerKaregg]

Did you not also put out a video on how to build a list from an order of battle? it says check this mini series out but there's no link

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Check out the how to put on a napoleonic game series. I think it's part 2

[@tomgolding7953]

the snobbishness really put me off for a while having come from the three main GW games. Now it doesn't bother me at all. I have fictional regiments and ships that while done in a historically authentic war, are my own and fit with "real" regiments just as well.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Good for you mate! Exactly how it should be imo!

[@paulspaintshed3511]

Really interesting. I play both ways to be honest so it's what ever floats your boat. There is nothing wrong with building an orbat then pointing it out so that you can play both ways. The only thing that is a minor gripe for me is I think it can discourage research into the period of history you are playing. Buying rules and army lists should be a gateway into learning about the battles, personalities, uniforms, tactics and so much more not just a means to an end. Its a shame that it's just seen as a game by some people rather than an opportunity to have a connection to the people that were affected by these events. Hobby how you want and be happy.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

I think that can come later (it wont always though), but yeah I think it's about accepting either/both to keep the community as open as possible

[@paulspaintshed3511]

@@NapoleonicWargaming the problem is that if I was a newcomer to Black Powder and was interested in say the 1809 campaign on the Danube and wanted to do an Austrian army where would i start? Theres no army book that gives me what I need straight off and if I am to try and make an army not an orbat I would still need to do some research about what made up an Austrian 1809 army even if its wikipedia, a website that deals with the army, someone in the group who is knowledgeable about it or maybe an osprey or 2. At least then I can start to create my army using the generic points out of the main rule book. A lot of rules dont have army lists unfortunately so if my gaming group uses one of those sets I have to do some research. I think without research even of a cursory nature we could be in danger of seeing some armies/campaigns disappear from our table tops and that would be a very sad thing.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

@@paulspaintshed3511 Yeah, that's a great point, and one that WG really should address. I'm not saying points are better than researching OOB, I'm just trying to say they're not worse

[@paulspaintshed3511]

@@NapoleonicWargaming 100% agree with you mate and although I dont play BP much now the campaign books are a fantastic place to start whether you play BP or not. Keep up the good work.

[@harukiri2738]

Points make the most sense to people. Especially when you're talking about the different campaigns and reforms that different nations made. Why shouldn't I be able to play 1814 French against your Peninsular war British? I don't want to have two french armies just because it's not historically correct.

[@paintinghistory1475]

I think there's a glitch or mistake on the napoleonic basics ot has random videos in it has random unrelated videos in it not really a problem just thought i would point it out just in case

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Huh that was weird. Thanks for the head up. I've been getting some weird messages lately too. Think I'll change my password...

[@paintinghistory1475]

@@NapoleonicWargaming if you get random messages and suspicious activities on you're computer/device I suggest a p VPN there very cheap but yeah no worries

[@paintinghistory1475]

@@NapoleonicWargaming hi again sorry for all the messages. So I've just got a box of perry light dragoons and realized that they whore the shako and not the tarleton at waterloo but I really want to paint the the early uniform but it was discontinued in 1812 so what im asking is would it be ok historicly to have some units with the tarleton during the hundred days as I just cant stand the shako or is it not possible and they only had the shako and as a gaming perspective does it matter or can you just have a made up brigade with units from different periods? Any way have good day and stay safe

[@thekameleon9785]

What do you recommend for rules on 1/72?

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

I use Black Powder.

[@obxsocom]

Napoleonic and 40k can be the worse players

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

I think any fanbase can be toxic. Hopefully people that think you can only play 1 way will think on their approach and be a bit more open to new ideas

[@obxsocom]

@@NapoleonicWargaming true, some are such snobs

[@hobbywargamer8195]

Point base games for Historical wargaming is so that casual gamers can get a game in, for those players that are serious about playing Napoleonic Wargaming because it's a historical game with real historical units and leaders are more inclined to use OOB's. Personally, I am against using a point system for historical wargaming, I use OOB's for both my Napoleonic and WWII armies as there is no point system that can justify the point allocation, why would the 71st French Line regiment be given higher points over the 52nd British Line Regiment, etc?

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

I think it's a shame you have that attitude. I don't think there's a right or wrong way of playing Napoleonics, and I certainly dont think promoting a casual/serious divide has any place in a our hobby. But hey, you do you buddy, and most importantly, keep doing the hobby however you enjoy it!

[@AndysEastCoastAdventures]

The french units will have a higher points value as they consisted of more men, so makes sense too me.

[@hobbywargamer8195]

@@NapoleonicWargaming It has nothing to do with attitude its just the way most people play Napoleonic Wargaming, you wouldn't expect a person to come to Warhammer 40k and play it using hexagon movement just because they come from that type of system in board gaming. The point of playing historical wargaming is to field units of a particular battle or campaign based on the historical composition of the armies in the field and then have the thrill of commanding those forces to try and achieve a better result than the historical outcome, The use of a point system reduces the historical element of the period to more like fantasy as with a point system any one unit can be brought to play even if they did not actually participate in that battle or campaign. with a point system, I could have the young guard and the old guard fight at Vitoria in Spain but historically they did not.

[@BittermanAndy]

@@hobbywargamer8195 *In your opinion*, the point of historical wargaming is XYZ. That's fine. That's your opinion... and your attitude. Not everyone agrees. If being "serious" about Napoleonics is to fight only the same battles with the same units and almost certainly the same results, that's something I personally want no part of. I'd quite happily say something like "well, what if the Guard were at Vitoria?" because then the game is about me and my opponent, not a recreation of events with already-known outcomes. I can read a book for that (and often do). If I'm playing a game, I want agency. You can play the way you want to, of course. I just think it's sad to gatekeep over who is "serious" or not. Happily, the rest of us don't need your approval.