Army of Champions for the Emperor's Faithful? How Strong are the Adepta Sororitas Champions of Faith

[@MGPW]

I was really hoping the Christmas detachment was just "Ignore the last balance dataslate"

[@dancingowlheadman]

lets take away all their miracle dice then make a *second* detachment based around having spare miracle dice.

[@dustinrobinson6272]

I think it's because this detachment was made BEFORE the dataslate changes, kinda like how the space Marines Grotsmas detachment has the pre-dataslate Armour of Contempt

[@dancingowlheadman]

@@dustinrobinson6272 most certainly, but still feels like salt in the wound. Even with enough miracle dice, its still mid at best, and overall just quite boring

[@Optionvideo209]

​@@dustinrobinson6272love the fact that aoc change was last minute willy nilly obviously because none of the brand new detatchments despite being digital were updated. Irritating as sht when you realize it's rarely worth a cp and it's in EVERY SINGLE detatchment lol

[@Goober2289]

​@@dustinrobinson6272 I'm sure it was, but they knew those miracle dice changes were happening months ago. It's not like the people writing these rules didn't find out until the data slate came out.

[@davidhughman7780]

At least the Sacristans it's based around don't benefit from hospitallers that burn miracle dice that would be really annoying

[@otakuon]

GW today to SoB players: "Yeah, we mega-nerfed your army and then gave you a Grotmas detachment that is total weak-sauce because of the mega-nerfs...but hey, check out this video and song we made for you sung in High Gothic! That makes up for all of it, right? RIGHT!?!"

[@jroden06]

Gentlemen, there's an obvious solution here that you're all not seeing. *Slams a Knight Castellan Ally on the table*

[@kevlonk]

Insert meme here of Pedro Pascal laughing, and then sobbing inconsolably at these rules

[@isaacchapman7628]

It kind of makes me wish standard Celestians were still around. A trinity of shooty Celestians, Sacrosancts, and Paragons sounds like a nice elite themed detachment.

[@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber]

YES and that is why Battle Sisters are the stand-in

[@guillercuastico]

shooty celestians with combi weapons, +1 to hit, 2 attacks (and hitting on 2 thx to detachment) and an ability similar to sternguard (reroll wounds) would be a fun and scary unit we desperately need for killing elite infantry like terminators.

[@guillercuastico]

@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber our favorite Commander Canoness in the flesh!

[@jackc4947]

It is soooooo obvious that James workshop has multiple teams working on these detachments and updates and none of them are talking to each other at all

[@astronomybrainiac]

The new Sororitas Detachment is definitely one of the detachments of all time. I bet they spent a Sororitillion Morbucks on it.

[@lyra_sen3482]

Not gonna lie, this really feel like chrismas, your friends and siblings got some cool gifts, and here we are with greu socks

[@WoWisdeadtome]

The thing is in melee heavy detachments like The Penitent Host and now Champions of Faith miracle dice are generally best used to ensure charges reach their targets as the number of identical attacks at lower power being thrown in melee make miracle dice much less impactful on them (unless they have precision) than say guaranteeing a multi-melta wounds the target. So miracle dice don't generally need to be conserved for combat or shooting purposes. That being said the reduction in dice generation will be felt here too because you need to discard dice for the bonuses and still have dice left to charge with. Glad sacresants at least have a place to shine now and the fact that Righteous units increase their WS and BS by one is big because it's not +1 to hit, which means you can potentially combine it with +1 to hit from other sources.

[@dras-pv8qv]

Like rationing the sale of fuel, then awarding everyone with a Hummer

[@Telveryon]

Answer is... It has no Detachment rule in practice and meh stratagem. So... Might as well not exist

[@rickkcir2151]

So if you roll lucky on your miracle dice and got all high numbers. You basically don’t have a detachment, because no way are you using those for this. Since they’re also rarer than a Votann book. You aren’t going to be discarding any miracle dice that aren’t trash rolls. Good work GW. I see you continue to prove us right that your departments do not communicate with each other at all.

[@allenedwards7595]

MD were less than halved. Triumph, and only getting 1-2 dice after the "go" turn instead a flood from the clapback. It's absolutely down to about 1/3. It really feels like someone on one side of the office nerfed the army while across the office someone wrote up this detachment.

[@sbeaber]

Hilarious typo in "suffer not the unfaithful"

[@WeirdWizardDave]

The whole thing is a non-starter because of the MD nerf cutting the fuel needed for this detachment in half. In fact its just adding insult to injury for GW to even release this. Sisters have been completely done dirty this Grotmas by GW, there was simply no call for it. Its a shocking failure by the design and balance team and I'm genuinely angry about it. People have paid huge amounts of money for this stuff.

[@tradingjedi63]

Cut on less than half considering we don’t even get 1 MD per killed unit as it’s capped at 1 at the end of a phase. Awful

[@masoncarter1710]

I bought an entire sisters army over summer because I finally got the money to get it and this is what happens. I'm just upset.

[@JackDespero]

Disappointing in the sense that they could have given much more to sisters and still keep the idea. I think that for example it makes no sense to restrict the +1 BS/WS to just three unit types. Making it unrestricted would be as "weak" but it would allow you to use other units that are never seeing like Zephrym, while Seraphim would not benefit from it, thus finally giving us a reason so pick Zephrym. WIth a Jump Canoness with the mark of devotion and the buff of the detachment rule, they would finally felt like the actual elite unit they are supposed to be. Happy to have a bit more support for Sacresants, but I think that making them 2+ would have been both a minimal change, but also psychologically impactful. Sacrosants have a massive shield and armor and they get exactly the same save as the rest. I makes no sense. They are not made out of paper like the rest of the army, but out of cardboard. They need to be given a way to be made of reinforced carboard. Anyway, the other problem is that Sisters is already a very difficult army to pilot correctly, and after the massive nerfs, it is extremely unfriendly to anyone but the top players. And this detachment's strength comes online only when you solve Rumpelstiltskin's riddle on a blue moon, which for high level players might be good, but for us peasants is harder than even something like HM. In summary, I think that sisters are at a point in which they could have given much more to the detachment and they would still be balanced and hard to play. They seem overly restrictive in applications, rules, etc, for no reason, really. I really like the idea of using MD to buff instead of for raw damage, as melee armies cannot compete with the efficacy of a melta, but for that the buff needs to be significant enough to be better than "guaranteed 1d6 damage to a tank". I would also like it for bolter, as per shot bolters are not worth MDs compared to melta, but for volume of shots, buffing bolters could be better than melta.

[@allenedwards7595]

As someone who never fails to roll 1's and 2's for my first few MD, I might play this just to hedge my horrible luck. I'll still lose with them until they drop points to being appropriate to their raw data sheet, not the ideal if you happen to have a bunch of free 6's laying around. Now a multi-melta is just a multi-melta.

[@bensemusx]

Use AoF. This is just a worse AoF.

[@magicalelvishman]

My one hope when I saw the miracle dice nerf was that it would open up design space for more powerful detachments. Now I have no hope.

[@myersmayhem2023]

I play super casually so I'll be trying it, but man is it disappointing I was really hoping for a detachment for melee/sacresants because I play with a block of 10 already I think it would be fun if you just got to bless a unit or two every turn for free but with the cost of the gutted MD it feels really expensive

[@gavinjohn6534]

It's awful. If this was before the balance dataslate, it would be pretty mid, but after it's almost insulting. It's like the team who made the detachments had no communication with the team who makes the balance dataslate. It's going to be a long quarter for us... :(

[@Majere613]

I mean, wow. Not only does this Detachment rely on having lots of MD, which the 'balance' patch just effectively removed, it also doesn't provide any way to generate more like AoF does. Sacresants are usually run with a Hospitalier, who runs on... wait for it... Miracle Dice. You could also lead them with a Palatine for her Lethals, and her improved melee which runs on... Miracle Dice! This isn't even "fun and casual", it's "You see that huge nerf you just got? Let's just rub your face in it!" The upside is that if they do walk back the MD nerf, and bring down the points on the Triumph and Sacresants, it might just be quite a fun one to try. If GW ever release a Paragon Canoness or Palatine it might even make Mobile Suit Nundam a viable list.

[@Goober2289]

The detachment rule isn't even worth it for paragons. You already get +1 to hit against the most important things for them to fight anyway, so improving their WS/BS doesn't really do anything

[@John-ux2bx]

Wow they are really beating this dead horse as much as possible.

[@Anaguma79]

This is certainly a test of faith.

[@Chaosdragon240]

I honestly feel like itd be super easy to fix the glaring issue of the rule, just take the ‘pick a number of units’ setup from the haloscreed detachment and apply it here, AS WELL AS “you can pick an additional number of units by discarding up to 3 miracle dice and choosing a number of units equal to the number of dice discarded” Doesnt solve all the issues, but at least we dont have to PAY to have a detachment rule. I really hate rules you have to pay for/earn

[@josephharskamp5576]

I feel insulted by this. Take our miracle dice, then demand we pay what few we have left for meager bonus's?

[@qwertzy321]

Its horrible. They executed sisters.

[@tradingjedi63]

Too bad we barely earn any miracle dice per battle after the new update.

[@alexbrewer2415]

At the very least, they should let sacresants gain 1 wound with the sheild, like how space marine captians do with their relic sheilds.

[@keyanklupacs6333]

The shield is how they get the 4++

[@Chaosdragon240]

@@keyanklupacs6333which is weird because any other unit that has shields it gives an extra wound. Id rather have the extra wound tbh.

[@keyanklupacs6333]

@@Chaosdragon240 look at ogryns and assault terminators then it's a bit wishy washy which way it applies.

[@Chaosdragon240]

@@keyanklupacs6333 honestly? First time i've heard that rebuttal, which is fair. I don't play guard and haven't played or heard much about assault termies, so first time seeing this. I'll admit, I still wish they were 2 wounds apiece, but now it's more a personal opinion than anything else.

[@keyanklupacs6333]

@@Chaosdragon240 the wound thing is relatively new overall. Stormshields used to provide a 4++ ONLY in combat meaning it was zero use againist shooting which didnt matter for most terminators who would just default to their 5++ But GW has scaled up terminator armor to occasionally be a 4++ for certain armies like custodes or gks. So shields had to gain another function, I think shields tend to provide the wound for units that already have invulns and provide the 4++ for units that would otherwise not have that inherient durability.

[@thelegendsmith3063]

Omnisiah Auspex what armies do you have/ collect?

[@keyanklupacs6333]

@@thelegendsmith3063 i think he has marines guard and a smaller ork collection.

[@Almighty_Mage]

Blood Angels is one of them I believe

[@arykaas]

I feel like the 2 components of the detachement buffs are inverted in their "fluff purpose" : The detachement is supposed to represent a more elite force of Sisters right ? Here they are "more elite" only if you pray for it ("use" miracle dice) .... doesn't feel elite to me. Make the , and get unconditional +1 LD and +1WS/+1BS (maybe its a bit powerful ? would need to mathhammer that shit). Not sure if giving unconditionnal +1" move is too much. But It looks more competitive with Bringer of flame to me that way. THEN allow these 3 kind of units to spend the now more rare miracle dices to get +1OC, representing Sisters praying to consecrate the objective instead of praying for better aim or the emperor protection .... I don't plays sister tho ... dunno if this Idea would be appealing to actual sister players in the first place ^^

[@stripeybag6977]

I'm guessing Vahl's Lance of Illumination still doesn't have Lance which means it lies!

[@NornQueenKya]

Does champion blood make them more pure? Asking as a grey knight player

[@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber]

ah! The lady from White Dwarf 507!

[@NornQueenKya]

@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber >.>

[@Goober2289]

This is easily the worst detachment yet. We get way less miracle dice to even activate the rule. And the best part of the rule only works on 3 units in the army. I actually feel insulted by this.

[@alexisauld7781]

It also only works on units physically on the board. Got your Sacresants wrapped in a nice paper Rhino? Too bad, no detachment rule for them! :)

[@Goober2289]

@@alexisauld7781 Where does it say that? It says Adepta Sororitas unit from your army. Nothing about being on the battlefield. Unless I'm mistaken that means you can use it on things that are off the board.

[@shamurai7]

with the miracle dice loss, you will be lucky to use the core rule before round 3. what a joke.

[@BurnByMoonlight]

Dead on arrival.

[@sailas150]

With what they did to the sisters, this detachment is ridiculous.

[@shadow0fx]

Damn. Sisters lost on Dataslates and we lost Grotmas too. I’m really starting to think GW doesn’t want Sisters to exist anymore

[@maxmixhaud69]

Was hoping the new detachment could give a second wind after the critical nerf of the balance update...I was wrong -_-

[@ethernetmumasmr_3231]

Massive disappointment this was, my prayers go yet unanswered

[@skilledwarman]

Can't wait for the next balance data slate to walk back the miracle dice gutting

[@kingpineapple560]

Still better than the eldar one

[@ListNein]

i wouldve loved this detachment BEFORE the miracle dice got nerfed

[@isaacfoley6728]

this was 100% written before the dataslate because otherwise they wouldnt need 3 miracle dice

[@Americium-120]

Which also proves an assumption that a lot of us have had for ages now that the different departments of Games Workshop don't talk to each other and the only time they do start talking to each other is when marketing steps in and says "we're selling this next month, don't f*** this up with a rules change."

[@theblackantonio]

We're getting less than half the previous amount, not slightly more than.

[@andrewgray740]

If the select unit to be righteous was at the end of the movement or could target in transport like as mech It would much more serviceable of a detachment

[@mobisev]

It just says one unit from your army, and it doesn't say that the unit need be on the battlefield, so idk why you couldn't target in transport.

[@alexisauld7781]

@@mobisev There's a rules clarification for embarked units that says "you cannot select an embarked unit as the target of any rules" That means you can't use this detachment rule on an embarked unit. :/

[@samuelharmssambamsjm269]

Some stratagems are OK, and the denial enhancement is handy but pricey. The detachment rule is a strange one having no inate army benefit is awful. + 1" only ly really benefits paragons massively, +1 Ld is situationally useful.WS 2+ on specific units is nice, but the issue is often making those hits stick! Making it cost miracle dice to even benefit even one unit is just salt in a very recent wound!

[@tradingjedi63]

Good Lord sisters suck now

[@RConnickJr]

Art of War thinks this is the one of the best ways to play Sisters right now. Obviously Sisters are very different today than they were last month, but still. All the keyboard champions wailing and gnashing their teeth here and in the comments are the same ones who were insisting Sisters was the worst army in the game...precisely up until the point that they started reliably winning tournaments.

[@magicalelvishman]

GW, why have you forsaken us?

[@Almighty_Mage]

Someone in charge got tabled by a sisters army

[@getjinxed7354]

This is so gross it bottom 3 detachment. I can't believe we didn't get a bloody rose style detachment. I can rewrite this in 3s. Detachment rule discard 1 miracle die. Target unit gets +1a +1ap for the turn. Strat 1 target unit can get either lethal or sustain hit in melee if they are empowered they get lance also. Strat two unit gets advance and charge if they are empowered they get +2to adv roll. Start 3 target unit gets fnp+6 if they are empowered they get fnp+5. Strat 4 target unit can fall back and either charge or shoot if empowered they can do both. strat 5 unit can make a reactive move of d6 inches if empowered they can move flat 6. Strat 6 consolidate 6 if empowered you don't have to move towards closest unit or objective.... Like really that hard gw to give sister player the 1 detachment the asked for? No we get +1m or +1ldr ship on everything but 3units 2 of which can't even fully make use of both +1ws +1bs...

[@JadeFoxAlpha]

Such a garbage detachment, but what I keep hearing is that it feels like it was written before the Miracle Dice debuff. I contend that this detachment would still be terrible even with a hell of a lot more Miracle Dice. Just abysmal stuff.

[@JudiferW]

Wow I guess we had our fun, time to crawl into the corner until GW hopefully if ever wants to fix miracle dice

[@jinenjuce]

Honestly every time GW releases an update for sisters, I'm just thinking "oh neat how are they gonna slap us in the face this time?"

[@venkelos6996]

Obviously, every Imperium Grotsmus detachment can't be great, but Sisters isn't the Imperium faction I was hoping would have to eat one, for the team? I'm definitely not tactical enough to play Adepta Sororitas, but I don't feel like I need to be too tactical to tell this isn't too good. I'm not entirely surprised? Like or not Eldar Fate Points, they got the shaft, and soon won't even be the primary faction rule, but I don't know if Sisters can absorb the same amount of hate, and still work, if they them plan to keep that as the faction rule. Overall, I think this hurts, and it will probably hurt even more tomorrow, if Blood Angels, who already has every option, and four more than everyone else, also gets another good detachment. Oh well, Sisters do tend to go through long rows of being mistreated by GW, for every occasional glimmer of awesome.

[@krankarvolund7771]

The worst part is Sisters already got their codex, so they will keep the Miracle Dice until 11th edition, and probably for some time in 11th as it would not be a reset. So unless they revert the change they made in the next dataslate, that's it. We're a one trick pony army, because unless you play penitent host, the only viable detachment is Hallowed Martyrs.... like when we just had the index XD

[@EmonWBKstudios]

WHERES MY TAU DETACHMENT, JAMES WĔRKSHŌŌP?!

[@keyanklupacs6333]

Soon.

[@Almighty_Mage]

This detachment is in very poor taste.

[@captainweekend5276]

It's not good, honestly it feels like your spending miracle dice to gain what should just be the effect of the detachment anyway, it's not as if you'd be spending a righteous unit slot on something just to give it +1 to move and leadership, and you're severely limiting how useful it could be for the army for no real reason. It's like imagine if you could only push the button with up to three units in dread mob, and had to give up the waaagh to be able to use the detachment rule. Even pre-dataslate this wouldn't have been particularly strong. Also GW really overvalues +1 to hit on 3+ BS/WS, +1 to hit is better when you have a bad ballistic skill because the relative increase is much better, for instance going from a 5+ to a 4+ will result in a 50% increase in successful hits despite only improving the odds by 16.67%, however when you get to a 3+ ballistic skill, improving to a 2+ will only result in a 25% increase in successful hits, however GW views it as being the same because it is the same in absolute terms, even though it's twice as effective in relative terms on the unit with a poorer starting BS, which is also likely a unit that has been priced cheaper to compensate for its bad BS, compared to the unit that will be priced higher for its good BS. GW are also incredibly stingy with +1 to wound (unless you're space marines of course, have it as your core army rule!) which would have been much more effective on an army that struggles for S10+ weapons.

[@alexisauld7781]

I'm just baffled that a "melee" detachment for an army that is s3 in melee, going up to 6 at max on anything not named Paragon Warsuit, doesn't get a lance stratagem or enhancement, yet AoF does? This detachment is watered down trash that asks us to exchange the corpse of our army rule for a piddly buff that can't be applied to units in transports. I actually started laughing in despair, at 1 in the morning, when I saw the one inch movement buff, like... It's clear that GW hate sisters at this point :/

[@jarrakul]

Wow this is, uh, garbage. That's unfortunate because it's /cool/, but it seems deeply mid before the miracle dice nerf and pretty unusable now.

[@elimcewen1607]

The only thing the god emperor of mankind can’t save his loyal followers from, is the one true god of wh40k. The games workshop balancing team…

[@uwu2u]

Could've been alright if it wasn't for the miracle dice nerf

[@isaacfransonfilm2139]

I don't care how powerful or competitively viable it is, personally. I just feel like this detachment is so BORING! Whoopity do, +1 to hit on some units. What is this detatchment rule even supposed to represent? Sisters faith supercharging them in battle? It really doesn't communicate that well. I want something abstract and unique, or just at lease with some flavor. Something that makes a unique playstyle. to use an example FROM the sisters own book, "The Penitent Host" is not a very competitive detachment (maybe after changes) however that is such a fun and fluffy detachment! The rules are unique (although they prolly could have gone further with it) and FEEL like how the fluff would lead you to believe. I FEEL like I'm commanding a force of sinners desperate for redemption! This detachment makes me feel ... nothing. I FEEL like I'm giving a SOB unit +1 to hit and +1 move.

[@Matt-xk8ms]

Kinda disappointed, was really looking forward to what sisters where getting and meh I might try it next time I play to test it out but I’ll prolly just do sacrifices or flame detachment again. I have 3k points of sisters and not one is a sacreants lol

[@otakuon]

Yeah, I have a single unit of 5 Sacresants because I think the minis look cool...so I guess this gives me an excuse to use them? GW more than likely created this detachment as a way to try and sell their over-stocked supply of Sacresants. Same reason why they boosted the Penitent Host in the last update while nerfing everything else in the army. Need to sell all those SoB Christmas boxes that no one bought.

[@Ultr4l0f]

Looks weak. But even worse. Looks boring! Too me atleast, this has no flair. Even if it was stronger I would hesitate to run it

[@Athanase48067]

A distinct lack of faith here in the Sororitas. Ironic!

[@djsmith9365]

1 min and no views you really fell off lol (joke)

[@OneWorkshopSig]

First

[@Xynth25]

The detachment is actually fine, ngl. Sisters took a nasty hit but they're not unplayable, just the braindead Bringers of Flame tank spam.

[@keyanklupacs6333]

Wow an actual reasonable take? Look at you using critical thinking and introspection.

[@herendel]

the detachment is 'garbage' because - you need MD and to be on the table to get the buff and now sister get around 12 MD but only sure 1 each turn (the other seven depend of simulcrum and dead unit so not reliable) so a the start (T1 and T2) when need to have impact you will have to choose betwen using a MD and buffing/using strata so with the new MD generation it's lame - sisters have some units that need MD for they capacity so the detachement is competing with them and oh boy but celestian need an hospitaler that need MD to bring back more of them... - army of faith stratagems has very similar with the detachment stratagems and for the close one they are all better in army of faith because they don"t need to spend first a MD on the unit to be rigthfull and are often more usable (shooting and figthing vs only figthing for exemple) so yes sister are usable even that detachment, but a lot of datasheet are now too expensive (hospitaller or zephirim that need MD for exemple)

[@keyanklupacs6333]

@@herendel Sorry, your army was broken and now it's not. This happens all the time please stop acting like a baby. You got like 6 months of being pants on head busted. It's fine. You'll rotate around to being good again in another 6 months I'm sure.

[@Xynth25]

@herendel You don't buff 3 units a turn, and you likely buff nothing turn 1. You allow your MD to bank up turn 1 and possibly even turn 2 while establishing your Go Turn. This is a perfectly fine melee army with some genuinely good rules available to it, and it works very well with several still powerful datasheets. It's a fine detachment.

[@herendel]

@@Xynth25 yes but as I said with less MD you need to do choice, with sacresant you use a doc and she use MD, to use some strats you need to spend a MD before. So maybe you will have to chose between using a 6 MD for the doc, a save or a strat that why I fell lie it's a bad design and why Army of faith is better

[@Kibbet21]

miracle dice is a bad rule set and im really hoping it gets the fate dice treatment in 11th edition