Arrow Lake Ultra 9 285K Analysis | Samsung Buying Intel Leak

[@MooresLawIsDead]

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[@henrythegreatamerican8136]

Now you got me singing that 80's Bananarama song I HEARD A RUMOR. No.... please don't listen to it. You've been warned. And please promise us you won't make it the intro to your videos.

[@raminpro9765]

intel lie again ,new cpu not TSMC = same 13-14 gen hot shit (with fake cores and 1.50 volt) = blue screen in games after 3-4 month in all reviewer bench. amd 9700x. 9950x. shine

[@Muhammad-sx7wr]

What do you expect from the g-side supporting company.

[@uberkermit]

If someone had predicted this in 2010, I would have laughed at the idea. How times change.

[@zodwraith5745]

Not even 2010, we were saying there's no way Intel could fail as recently as 2018.

[@NWOResistance]

@@zodwraith5745true, my 9700k was such a great upgrade in 2018. Anyway, im getting delivered 265k tomorrow because I don’t care much about performance at 4k, im still getting decent upgrade when intel compete with intel recently.

[@A.Froster]

​@@NWOResistanceWhat ? Why would you buy a worst CPU compared to previous gens or the competition? Like the same thing happened with 11th Gen and people were seriously coping hard with it

[@NWOResistance]

@@A.Froster let me repeat myself again since you don’t understand. Its because im upgrading from 9th gen, six years passed and most youtubers are clowns running benchmarks at 1080p resolution like i care. At 4k the performance difference is not that huge. Also, I slightly care more about new motherboard than new CPU. My old CPU is still making me happy because i use it at 4k, get it?! 🤦‍♂️

[@zodwraith5745]

@@A.Froster I was also considering the core 7. It's still faster for production than anything AMD wants to give you for the price, and now the poor efficiency isn't an issue. It gets 80% the multicore of the 7950X3D for 60% the price. How is that a bad deal? There _IS_ still a place for Intel and it's in mixed use, but unfortunately for Intel that's far from the most prevalent user. I think I'll wait until the new launch bugs calm down though and see what happens with pricing and how AMD reacts. AMD badly needs to give the mixed use users some love without forcing us to the terrible value R9s

[@bshonka1]

Userbenchmark are losing their minds right now 😂

[@backupplan6058]

The shortest review “CPUpro” as done. Leaked by marketing a best case, high memory latency, recommendations for buying 12th and 13th gen instead. He’s broken but still not enough to recommend AMD.

[@Bound4Earth]

They still fanboys the dildo up their own arse for Intel.

[@famingo4363]

Can someone provide the origin for the userbenchmark joke? So far, I only understand that userbenchmark is biased in favor of Intel

[@stefnauc9675]

​@@famingo4363isnt that enough 😂

[@shadad07]

Intel Userbenchmark? The one site that truly needs a decade worth DDOS 😂

[@TM1337FalconPunch]

Imagine if the crowning achievement of Ryzen ends up being the actual destruction of Intel as an independent company. I don't think AMD imagined or even wanted that. Like AMD was just trying to sell good chips (and not go under) and as soon as they started actually succeeding Intel spent a decade punching themselves in the face in response. Wild.

[@arenzricodexd4409]

Ryzen did not destroy intel. Intel woes coming from their obsession with mobile market where they burn billions even when the result have always been negative for them in that endeavor. Back then nvidia have more success than intel in mobile but despite that they still pull out from the market because Jensen know going further will only destroy his company.

[@Hugh_I]

Yeah, I can't imagine that even the most optimistic people at AMD would've thought in 2017 that Zen would accomplish that. The pie in the sky dream probably was more along the lines of: We don't actually go bankrupt, and if we execute really really well, we maybe get a little more than crumbs of market share back, to the point that people may seriously consider our products as a decent alternative that is fine to buy too.

[@damienlobb85]

Yeah, I highly doubt AMD would want that.

[@ZadakLeader]

Called it in 2017 that Intel will be gone in 10 years

[@MoraFermi]

Intel started punching itself in the face much earlier. The Ivy Bridge fiasco was the inflection point, where it boiled over. Arguably they've been doing very stupid decisions ever since early 1990, but a lot of these can be argued were stupid only in hindsight.

[@stephenwerner1662]

I absolutely agree with Tom's comparison to the Bulldozer launch. Why are people suggesting that Arrow Lake is a Zen 1 moment???? Zen was a fantastic upgrade over the previous generation. Like Bulldozer, Arrow Lake loses to the previous architecture.

[@LugerBrasil]

beecause AMD series 9000 got the bulldozer comparison already. suck it.

[@nerdynumen]

@@LugerBrasil Are you 12 lmao

[@stephenwerner1662]

@@LugerBrasil wow. How old are you? 14?

[@0007JO]

bulldozer was awsome it was good enough and aged so well i didnt change the cpu for like 8 years

[@stephenwerner1662]

@@nerdynumen Heh. I typed out my response seconds before I saw yours. I guess I was too kind suggesting he was 14.

[@falxgod6848]

If Intel were to be bought or merged and lose the 'Intel' name, I would never have imagined that the Intel brand or corporation could disappear before AMD. That would be a truly strange day.

[@Felale]

Zero chance they ever get rid of Intel name. It’s worth a lot based on how recognizable it is to consumers still.

[@NadeemAhmed-nv2br]

​@@Felaleapple might just eat the fabs and just dissolve the rest of intel

[@xpk0228]

@@NadeemAhmed-nv2br yeah I don't see Apple sell x86 standalone cpus to the market. It just go against their company culture, they always do full vertical intergation on their products

[@Txm_Dxr_Bxss]

Apple will likely still make x86 chips under the name Intel so they can charge themselves for patents and IP to save on taxes.

[@libaf5471]

IBM is still around. Intel might fade away to be some enterprise chip design company / holding company for the billions of patents they have. It's the patents anyone wanting to buy intel really wants. And those really shouldn't be allowed to merge with samsung or apple. Too big of a slice of the silicon industry in one pile.

[@leicestersq1]

Remember Adoredtv's video called Inside Intel? That was right on the money. I wish he would make more content.

[@mlw636]

He more or less got bullied out of doing them. It is shame though. I think the AMD leaks that didn't pan out really did it, but He should have kept at it.

[@denverbasshead]

Dude has legendary videos on Nvidia and Intel. That one leak f'ed him, I miss him too.

[@kayos1203]

​@@denverbassheadwhat leak are you talking about? My memory needs to be refreshed

[@denverbasshead]

@@kayos1203 I think it was his zen3 leak but I could be wrong, it's been a long time

[@teapouter]

@@denverbasshead I thought it was his 3000 series leak?

[@qwertyzxaszc6323]

I do not think the US Government would allow a foreign company to buy a US chip company, and I do not think Apple would want the headache of having to support so many types of crazy Windows devices. Anyways this would go the same way as those who bought Motorola, Blackberry, or Nokia to gain access to a market. Just a big waste of money buying relics of the past that failed to innovate.

[@EdDale44135]

If Apple bought Intel, would they just buy the foundries to remove their dependence on TSMC for their ARM chips? And let a new company that is a fabless chip company for x86 be formed. Or sell that to AMD making them the only x86 company making Windows chips?

[@tringuyen7519]

@@EdDale44135Intel foundries are crap. None of Intel nodes can match the reliability or efficiency of TSMC. Even Intel 18A, only IBM & Amazon would use it. Neither sells CPUs or GPUs.

[@eggysz]

@@EdDale44135 That's assuming intel's foundry business is even remotely competitive with TSMC which it isn't. Unless Apple is keen to burn tens of billions over at least 5 years on a promise it might match TSMC, I'm not seeing it.

[@Jane-qh2yd]

@@eggysz I mean, if ANY company could do it then it would definitely be the highest valued tech company of all time with the highest earnings out all of them by far. As a matter of fact, investing into a chip company would be the BEST way for Apple to gain ground in their already leading position, as very few companies would have the money or structure to even try to compete with TSMC. Not saying this is even close to being a possibility, but the more you rationalize it, the more it makes sense.

[@adeptuspotatocus6451]

I had the same thought, qwerty. The feds wouldn't let Samsung, a South Korean company, buy Intel. In fact, the feds may consider Intel to be a strategic asset and prop it up even if it's burning.

[@BasicPixell]

The last thing any of us want is Apple owning Intel. You think their pricing is bad now just wait until apple buys them and you have to buy the Intel pro max CPU for $1600

[@FacialVomitTurtleFights]

*INTEL PRO MAXXX ULTRA 930-342 Gen 2"

[@Bound4Earth]

I think first they would destory anything Intel provides now for free and make it proprietary, only works on iApple products. Patent pending, don't you love our naming innovation.

[@monsterboomer8051]

More money to AMD

[@Zorro33313]

well don't buy it then

[@hishnash]

You are aware intel makes chips that cost way more than $1600 today right?

[@danieloberhofer9035]

First, thank you for just saying it bluntly! I was getting sick of all this "Zen moment" bullshit. How anyone can compare a barely functional sorry excuse for a new gen CPU that fails to achieve anything it should have with Zen1 is beyond me. The simple fact that ARL uses N3 + Foveros and still manages to be wholly uncompetitive with Zen5 (or sometimes even Zen4 and Zen3) is not only desastrous, it's absolutely abysmal. Secondly: Just imagine if the rumors became reality. Pat "The Saviour" Gelsinger going down in history as Intel's last CEO, because he had to sell the wrecked company to the competition (Qualcomm), the estranged customer (Apple) or even abroad (Samsung). Should've been unthinkable, yet here we are. Madness (as Wendell would say).

[@Carlton_Banks]

People claiming this is a Zen 1 moment is pretty wild, it's not, it's a Bulldozer moment for Intel, literally negative gains 😅

[@nipa5961]

Intel's 4th Bulldozer moment already.

[@DG-hw8it]

I see price drop...😂

[@paritoshiksharma2451]

My bulldozer is still running all these years later. Please don't insult bulldozer 🙏.

[@nipa5961]

@@paritoshiksharma2451 Bulldozer was cheap at least. Arrow Lake 285K is much more expensive but massively slower than the 9800X3D though.

[@alilokhd4638]

Arm wanted a partnership with Intel, but they didn't care. Apple wanted to do the same but got refused back on og iPhone. Intel didn't want to acquire tsmc. Intell missed gpu's in 2009 with the first project that got cancelled. Intel stuck at 14nm for longer than it should. Intel started a hybrid architecture that doesn't get any benefits from e/p cores. They messed it all. Intel jumped to ai train too late. Intel missed the packaging of the chips and woke up too late. Basically opportunities will come once and intel didn't play them well.

[@cj09beira]

even now the way they are using multi die is idiotic and leads to much higher cost with little gain, only in server are they using a reasonable chiplet solution

[@nab-v1w]

And they invested billion in israel and will not see back all the money because of war against palestinian kids and woman there.

[@andersjjensen]

@@cj09beira Intel does not care about desktop any more. They've learned from AMD that making excellent datacenter products first is how you make money... and laptop is second. Desktop is just crumbs in general and DIY desktop is the crumbs of the crumbs.

[@aravindpallippara1577]

​@@andersjjensenYep agreed, but do they even have a competing product in server if they can't beat AMD in efficiency with a superior node and packaging?

[@erkinalp]

@@andersjjensen OEM desktop isn't crumbs, it's a money maker but in volume rather than in unit prices.

[@e2rqey]

If 18A isn't an unbelievably good node, Intel is seriously screwed. Like it will be game over

[@christophermullins7163]

Think about the capital and the number of fabs being built. Sure they need guidance and to move quickly but they won't fold.. just need to shift gears and come back the right way.

[@tringuyen7519]

@@christophermullins7163Intel has delayed ordering more high NA EUV machines from ASML. Intel 18A is DOA without them. You need 25 EUV machines for production!

[@13loodLust]

Nah! Government will bail em out. The US needs domestic chip production, can't rely solely on foreign fabs for national security reasons.

[@TypeErrorDubs]

Pat said publicly that he has bet the company on 18A, so you are correct.

[@drewnewby]

There's no if, 18A is behind N3, nevermind N2. Also the pricing, and yield are not going to cut it.

[@reinhardtwilhelm5415]

*sigh* Why the *fuck* does this keep happening? When businesses do well, they engage in hideously anti-competitive mergers, and when businesses do poorly, they engage in hideously anti-competitive mergers. The government needs to start blocking these, with extreme prejudice.

[@WaterZer0]

This is the natural conclusion to economics: everything is owned by 1 giga corp. We don't have that yet, but they run the US government; and they are not gonna restrict their own power. Why would they?

[@WaterZer0]

Why would the companies who control the US government prevent themselves from growing more powerful? This is the natural conclusion of capitalist economies: one mega conglomerate owns everything.

[@chriskasprzyk6235]

And how is Intel going out of business going to keep more competition in the market? One less company, no matter how it occurs, still decreases competition, so blaming mergers is a really short-sighted and dumb take.

[@lexwaldez]

Late-stage capitalism. You have to grow profites and revenue or you're out. It's growth at any cost and execs are rewarded for short term results. They can throw away a company's future for a couple years of solid growth. Rake those bonuses in and bail when the company dies. The only people hurt are stockholders, employees, and customers but the executives always seem to do okay.

[@RafitoOoO]

the business that do well engage in the hideously anti-competitive mergers with the business that do poorly xD

[@squirrel6687]

If Apple gets a fab, kiss pricing goodbye.

[@marqueshenry6483]

by the way, what does kiss pricing meaning? i cannot find that on google

[@balaam_7087]

⁠​⁠@@marqueshenry6483Are you serious? I can’t tell if this is a troll comment or not, but if you’re for real then the phrase ‘kiss pricing goodbye’ means you have seen the end of something. As in, when you give someone a kiss before they leave and then they’re gone-the OP is saying if Apple makes chips then reasonable prices will go away because of Apple’s greedy price gouging.

[@vigilant_1934]

@@balaam_7087 Someone who didn't speak or read English as their first language may not understand that phrase. Thanks for explaining it without being a jerk.

[@marqueshenry6483]

@@balaam_7087 thanks to telling me that. its not my mother tongue. anyway the explanation was good. i can understand

[@lolmao500]

Who buys apple anyway? Garbage overpriced closed ecosystem trash. Apple is a cult and if apple buyers had a brain they would never buy apple until they start treating people like they arent total morons cult members. But yeah intel shouldnt be bought by apple... this would be very bad for everyone.

[@conza1989]

I’m not phased with its usability, that I can accept, it’s really just Intel still being so arrogant, they keep thinking the last 4-5 years didn’t happen, Zen 2,3 and 4 have been triumphs that have placed them 2nd place in a 2 horse race. It’s time to act accordingly and try to make a come back, the hole is only getting deeper right now

[@blufferblue1599]

100%. They still price things like a market leader when they are so far from it. Prices should be at least 30%-40% less to make any sense. Now it's basically a scam, praying that customer does not know what he's buying and is mislead by ultra in the cpu name.

[@ThisGuy-kk1lp]

I would have to disagree with your Samsung rumor. The United States would never allow a company outside the US to purchase Intel.

[@RaffaelOliveiraSousa1]

South Corea is basically a US occupied territory.

[@james...cardinal]

they will if you bribe them

[@itsprod.472]

Same with the UK and ARM. I remember the whole Nvidia trying to buy them out and couldn’t do it 😂

[@reiniermoreno1653]

​@@itsprod.472isn't ARM a Japan property basically?

[@MaxIronsThird]

F Apple buying Intel

[@hornsteinhof7592]

That would leave AMD as the only x86 company in the world, turning the PC market into a monopoly and therefore it is impossible to happen

[@hishnash]

@@hornsteinhof7592 No it would just open are the ARM PC space (for vendors like Nvidia)

[@Awai_Tsubasa]

if apple buy intel, they might kill x86 then revoke's AMD's base X86 license (AMD only have 64bit license), ultimately killing AMD.

[@mrfarts5176]

​@Awai_Tsubasa No, that can not happen. I do not believe they can legally retract the license. Also, Apple buying them is better than an Asian company like Samsung, tsmc, Qualcomm... ect.

[@mrfarts5176]

Please use your brain. We do not, do not want a foreign company, or nvidia buying intel. Apple is the only good option. By the way, DEI at Intel caused this. They need to be gutted to start improving.

[@captainlooney4356]

Samsung buying Intel would never be approved by the US. Apple seems more likely.

[@-Blue-_]

Microsoft is better not apple

[@tringuyen7519]

@@-Blue-_Not sure if MSFT & Intel are still friendly. MSFT really likes QCOM for some reason…

[@arenzricodexd4409]

Yup samaung buying intel is no-no. If situations are really dire for intel (they are not there yet) they most likely get some injection from the US gov. Apple even if they have the money to buy intel they most likely have no interest because that's mean they have to sell the CPU outside their ecosystem.

[@macicoinc9363]

Microsoft buying Intel will instantly be slapped down due to anti-trust laws.

[@squatch545]

Apple buying Intel would be even less likely. Lina Khan would absolutely never allow it, and that's a good thing.

[@johndelabretonne2373]

I remember Piledriver representing an almost 5 year drought of failure for AMD that almost destroyed them. I hope Intel is able to iterate quick enough to get things back on track in the next year or so...

[@libaf5471]

Intel has been failing for a lot longer than 5 years. The only thing that's kept intel cpu's in the mainstream is the power blasting. This is the first architecture in a long time that tries to at least feign efficiency and it's a dumpster fire.

[@saricubra2867]

@@libaf5471 "that tries to at least feign efficency" You forget that Alder Lake exists with that 19% ipc gain and the first with Big-Little done well.

[@libaf5471]

@@saricubra2867 Nope. Alder lake was fine, but they decided to iterate on it by just blasting power. Like if zen1 was followed by just another piledriver or bulldozer, that'd be a failure. I don't think arrow lake is doomed to fail, but it's a really rocky beginning and if the power behavior is truly the best it can do and not just chiplet problems, then... well, nothing new here. They will just iterate towards 300 watts again.

[@saricubra2867]

@@libaf5471 19% IPC was fine? That was amazing.

[@saricubra2867]

@@libaf5471 "they decided to iterate on it by just blasting power. " Raptor Lake added more cores, cache and clocks. The perfomance difference between the 12th and 13th gen i7s is kinda big, is not just power. The laptop chips are even more ridiculously fast. They dropped the ball with 13.5th gen.

[@DreadyBearBoi]

Qualcomm can’t do it either without share offerings as well as a messy merger. Them having issues with ARM doesn’t help either because their revenue is at risk.

[@foureye7058]

And before launch people were STILL calling you an AMD shill. You might be opinionated, but you mostly just tell it like it is. This is a bait post, for that one guy who has a hate boner for this channel. I have a 3600 in my workstation, with a 500 series chipset. I can upgrade to the chart-topping 5800x3d any time, for $160 plus the cost of a cooler. Doesn't make me a fanboy, the product IS just better.

[@robertmajors1737]

I'd get the even more efficient 5700x3d. Sips power and is super close to the 5800x3d in performance.

[@christophermullins7163]

​@@robertmajors1737 I would get the 5800x3d. It's binned better so undervolting can make it more efficient. And the frequency delta is pretty large.

[@TheKazragore]

Both are excellent choices, though.

[@qT_p13]

Spoken like a true fanboy. Jebaited.

[@davidcruz1941]

The fact that even the 5800x3D beats the new Intel CPU in gaming

[@tuckerhiggins4336]

Never thought I'd see Intel pull a Piledriver/Bulldozer, love to see it

[@christophermullins7163]

Same. It's sad but also feels so good to see the underdog really stirring things up. Intel absolutely has the ability to come back and pull a zen-like progression of gains. Their new fabs need to act hastily.

[@tuckerhiggins4336]

@christophermullins7163 It is sad. I wanted Arl to be good so Amd had a reason to release the 24 core

[@ashamahee]

yeah but at this point the company may cease to exist if it loses enough money without a new product to create new income so we would loose the competition and AMD becomes a worse version of the intel monopoly.

[@andersjjensen]

@@ashamahee AMD was $4 billion in debt after having sold their fabs for $4 billion. They ran in the reds for a decade in a row. And they bounced back. Intel has a lot more fat to lose before things get outright dangerous for them......

[@TrueThanny]

They were the first to do it with Netburst. That's what gave AMD their big break in the early 2000's. Intel got its act together by returning to the Pentium III design, which had been maintained and refined in its mobile product lineup. It was renamed Core 2 and brought back to the desktop. AMD caught back up with Phenom II, but then Intel went with Nehalem and AMD went with Bulldozer, largely repeating Intel's prior mistake with the Pentium 4 (i.e. Netburst).

[@ethanc94]

I started my pc gaming journey back in 2020. The first cpu I bought was a 3600 from a friend’s recommendation. Since then I’ve become the guy for pc parts in my circle. Ever since then I’ve bought dozens of am4 motherboards and a single x670E for myself. Intel has never been competitive in my opinion and when I had the choice of a 14700k vs a 7800x3d, I chose the right cpu.

[@JakeySurani]

14th gen with tuned ddr5 8000 memory is faster than 7800x3d. But If u just want plug and play x3d is the way to go. Depends if u want to tinker or not.

[@jaredvillhelm2002]

@@JakeySuranitrue, most want to do a simple build and be done. The tinkering is for the 5% who wanna struggle 😹

[@halrichard1969]

I put a mild undervolt/overclock on my PC including my 7900xt and get on with gaming. I am not an OC CPU/GPU freak who lives for benchmarks. Lets get on with it man.

[@TM1337FalconPunch]

​@@JakeySurani the problem with this is it doesn't matter how fast it is if it costs a gazillion dollars. this has been intel's whole issue with ryzen. they can't come remotely close to it's value. it's like saying the gtx 1080 ti wasn't actually the GOAT because the titan xp existed and that was more powerful... by like 2%. people dont buy parts because its the single strongest part, it's all about value.

[@NadeemAhmed-nv2br]

​@@JakeySuranithe 10% gain of 24h2 update alone negates that and beats it by 5%, not to mention it won't fry itself

[@aquilarossa5191]

Who would have thought back in the dark days of Bulldozer and Intel telling us we only need four cores, that in 2024 AMD would be beating Intel in almost all applications -- and smoking them in gaming. Intel messed up.

[@_GntlStone_]

It's just so bad. They need to stop the insanity over at Intel.

[@mana646]

if anything it's Zen 5 that is the "Zen 1 moment" -- lots of foundational change, doesn't impress much, but groundwork for future progress

[@impuls60]

I had some fate in this cpu because of the 3nm but I was wrong. I guess Intel has to layoff more people, I just the ones who took the chief decision to remove HT is the one to go.

[@mookhongwai3242]

This just goes to show that Intel design team keep blaming the foundry team but the truth is both are equally bad, what is left to save in this company when every part of the company is rotting. Pat is just as arrogant as previous Intel CEO, he is not going to turn the company. Intel need someone like Lisa Su who can acknowledge their flaws and work on it, instead of shooting their mouths off. Remember AMD started going downhill after they went extremely arrogant with the success of AMD64.

[@saricubra2867]

​@@mookhongwai3242Funny enough how Intel went arrogant after Alder Lake.

[@charlesballiet7074]

meanwhile global foundry's is all but forgotten at this point

[@mytech6779]

Hey, I'm currently on Piledriver [8320]! (slightly under clocked even) Arrow Lake is not even close to a Piledriver value. It was $140 CPU and $100 for a high-mid range mobo (And top quality ddr3 RAM at $10/GB) with performance equal to Intel parts costing at least 50% more.

[@PronounsR4Pussys]

What on earth are you on that ancient silicon for still?

[@balaam_7087]

If you havin’ cpu problems I feel bad for you son, you’ve got 9 285K problems but my Ryzen got none.

[@nathangamble125]

I see two possibilities: 1. Arrow Lake is a good architecture held back by buggy software which will soon be fixed, and it will end up being far better than it is in current benchmarks. 2. This is Intel's Bulldozer moment: they released a new CPU with a revolutionary multithreading design, and it wins in a few workstation applications, but sucks balls in everything else and is often worse than its predecessor.

[@alzx]

going from monolithic to chiplet = intel's bulldozer moment 🙂‍↔️

[@MooresLawIsDead]

The latter.

[@gymnastchannel7372]

I actually do believe Intel did this as a first gen effort to move to a disaggregated arch.Latency seems to have suffered, leading to that Zen 1 moment comparison.

[@mookhongwai3242]

Like MLID mentioned, I also follow L1 tech. ARL is equally bad on Linux unlike Zen 5 which was great on Linux but not windows so I doubt there is anything that the software part can do much....

[@fturla___156]

Who knew that the death of Intel was going to be when AMD released Ryzen in 2017? The fact that Intel held unto releasing only quad core CPU hardware to the public (for the most part) and using incremental improvements of less than 10% per year for so long from 2010 to 2020 basically killed the company. Yes, I know people will say they sell much more than 4 core CPU products and that the performance boosts can be far more than 10%, but does it actually feel like it or that they truly wanted to push progress? The company was slowing down in terms of technology, and you can see the budgeting of their funds away from R&D, because the financial statement ratios changed away from spending enough on research.

[@Hugh_I]

Indeed. And not only did they get utterly complacent when AMD couldn't compete, they also got so arrogant that it took them way to long to notice that this plucky little Zen thing isn't a one off. They probably would've had a chance had they recognized the sings in 2017 and acted swiftly - instead management created powerpoint presentations with mountains of money as their strategy to defeat AMD. When the time came they recognized that hey had to hurry up on Alder Lake etc., it was already too late to catch up, and, pikachu, were did all the money go? All they could do is rush everything, crank the power an hope it doesn't come back to bite them. Then it came back to bite them.

[@NadeemAhmed-nv2br]

It was actually 5-6% total in 7 years so less than your estimate for 1 year but in close to a decade

[@cj09beira]

@@Hugh_I they did those presentations because last time they managed to bully OEMS into not even selling amd computers, sadly for them its a different world now, with more light shinning on these things so they didn't manage to get away with it.

[@xpk0228]

People used to think intel was just not bothered to advance the comsumer CPU tech when AMD was behind, but in retrospective I think it's more like they were unable to. Otherwise they could have killed zen with a Desktop 8 core back in 2018, and work their way beyond the limit of 12 stop ringbus soon afterwards.

[@fturla___156]

@@xpk0228 Regardless of what Intel's ambitions were and it's technological progress, by 2014 I had already felt that Intel was dragging it's feet and simply wanted to deny the general public anything above a quad core computer. You don't need to take my word on this, just go to the library and take out the financial reports that Intel sent out to their investors and compare the numbers going forward. On a full disclosure basis, I did have Intel stock before 2004 and have received their financial reports on a more than annual basis, but I no longer hold the investment for well over two years. Side note - Not sure if it's a good thing if Qualcomm, Samsung, or Apple acquiring Intel would be a good thing for the public.

[@greeshmaisave5410]

Did he overlooked his dog, can we get a follow up that one ?

[@necrotic256]

I remember couple years ago : "20%, 30%, even 40% multi core Meteor Lake and Arrow Lake perf. increases!" coming from a certain channel

[@timwang4659]

None of his predictions have panned out this year lol

[@vitormoreno1244]

Those values are engineering projections, they are always a guesstimate.

[@christophermullins7163]

Which channel 👀

[@qT_p13]

If you get your info from the engineers designing the product, this will be your early predictions. Only coming down to launch will you start getting the real truth of how good any product is. That's why you should just ignore leaks that are years in advance.

[@tringuyen7519]

@@timwang4659MLID told that ARL was dumpster fire 3 days before the embargo!

[@tomaszwojtkowski2759]

it should be called cinebench lake. Imagine 3 years polishing architecture to be the best in cinebench and starfield xD

[@VioletGOKU]

How likely do you think the main reason for the Arrow Lake debacle is Intel using the old tile design as you mentioned in the previous videos? If it is, do you think micro-code updates or Windows patches can realistically help the situation much?

[@khensationalReviews]

It's a design flaw. Memory Latency is high cause they moved the mem controller on a separate SoC tile. If they didn't and these ARL can push 8600+ mhz these chips will fly in gaming. It's very sensitive to mem latency thats why you don't see any difference from cinebench channels that tried 7200/8600mhz. I've seen people getting the latency down to 63ns but its way slower than previous gen and also AMD.

[@smakfu1375]

Close to zero chance that the FTC or the DOD allows an Intel acquisition by Samsung on the basis of Antitrust concerns and national security considerations. Broadcom was blocked from a Qualcomm acquisition on much the same basis (and ultimately rehomed to the US from Singapore to prevent future issues). Apple has no reason to buy them, the current best guess is Qualcomm as that rumor is largely confirmed.

[@halrichard1969]

I like the Samsung/Intel idea best. That would hurt both Qualcomm and Apple.

[@Fordance100]

Both struggle against TSMC. Don't think putting them together would solve the problem.

[@ptung88]

Probably won’t happen with the current political climate and domestic push to rebuild US chip making. Not with Apple in the mix. If the decision is to have a US company acquire Intel versus a foreign company, Uncle Sam would clearly prefer one over the other. The perfect world is Intel survives and remains an independent player in the market so we don’t have to kiss pricing goodbye.

[@TheGamingAviator]

Man even if it’s a rumor, to hear the words to buy/Aquire intel, a company once thought to big to fail is hilarious.

[@benjaminlynch9958]

They may be too big to fail, but they’re not too big to acquire. Apple right now has $150B in cash and investments on its balance sheet and is generating > $100B annually in free cash flow - most of which is being used to buy back their own stock. If they put a temporary halt to buying back their own stock, but the time they got regulatory approval to complete the acquisition they could pay the full price in cash. And that assumes a takeover price 2x the current market value of Intel.

[@nahuelcutrera]

well my guess is some executive bean counter said "we are releasing anyway", and simple wasn't ready, big company energy. And regarding the buyout I think they want intel licenses and maybe froundries but they would probably kick everybody out ... figuratevily speaking

[@Hugh_I]

Given their Raptor Lake dumpster fire, releasing anything new ASAP even if it isn't quite ready or up to projections, may have sounded like a pretty smart and necessary step to them. I mean the reputation of their two latest gens of CPUs was burned and a lot of customers wouldn't touch them even at a very low price, so getting off of that and shifting production to new ones might've been the priority.

[@fredsorre6605]

Honestly though Jim Keller gave Intel the best dynamic performing processor and Pat cancelled it would have been the cure for all of the current issues that many games have on Intel's current processor design we all know that a lot of games prefers to use a smaller number of cores and threads meaning they prefer faster cores over all Beast Lake would have solved that since its dynamic core design is able to switch from 4 or 8 BIG Cores to 16 or 32 smaller cores depending on the workload this way you would almost always have most of the CPU handling your tasks it would have been a game changer for games that would not use more than four cores and would still work great for those that prefers a lot of cores and threads instead we got their first real product with their version of chiplets and like almost every 1st generation product ever they have a lot of issues they need to fix that would likely need another generation or two to do.

[@nfugitt89]

Imagine telling someone 25-30 years ago "Apple may buy Intel. And Trump might become president...again!"

[@federicocorbetta932]

there are rumors regarding a possible launch of more powerful models and also with L4 cache in Q1 2025. do you have information?

[@zeitgeistx5239]

lol this video is just a fluff video without any real content. The Samsung or Apple rumor is literally comical. Apple doesn’t directly compete against Qualcomm as it doesn’t manufacture or sell silicon. Plus Apple doesn’t do manufacturing, so you would have to completely change the corporate strategy and culture of the company for the rumor to make any sense. Apple, Qualcomm and Samsung would benefit more from an Intel bankruptcy and buying their patents. And Samsung only make sense if you are truly ignorant and don’t know what Samsung is. Samsung is a Korean Chaebol. Samsung is essentially privately controlled through Chaebol cross holding. Samsung is also incredibly opaque. And Samsung’s company structure and existence is literally illegal under U.S. federal laws. Their CEO literally went to prison along with the South Korean president in a corruption case. Samsung is literally a national security threat due to their corrupt and opaque nature. South Korean courts have refused to enforce shareholder rights over Samsung. Samsung is functionally no different than Huawei except it’s located in a country friendly to the U.S. Uncle Sam isn’t going to allow a company that’s literally illegal under U.S. antitrust and corruption laws purchase a company that’s key to U.S. technological dominance.

[@morpheus_9]

Neither Apple or Qualcomm manufacture silicon.

[@jermygod]

Intel CPU would be great if they drop the price by 65%, no less, because even 50% is just on par with last gen CPUs if you include motherboard

[@christophermullins7163]

Intel needs to come out and promise a 30% single thread performance(not ipc) uplift on the platform in order to get any sales.

[@Hugh_I]

Agreed. Isn't going to happen though. Intel being Intel, designed an ambitious chip that they thought would stomp the competition - yet they (once again) failed at achieving their goals and are (once again) left with a product that is more expensive to produce then AMD's. They don't have the money reserves to sell those at a significant loss just to maintain some market share.

[@andersjjensen]

Intel doesn't care what DIY desktop users think. We are just a tiny blip. Intel cares about their OEM contracts. Datacenter, laptop and corporate/institution desktop... in that order. The DIY market basically only exists to make OEM pricing look reasonable.

[@auritro3903]

lol that aint happening, unfortunately

[@xpk0228]

if they do that they would be bankrupt in like 3 months tops. their margin on CPUs are really bad already

[@angelg6338]

Maybe Intel should try out the Zen 1 way: Dump the previous architecture and start over on a clean-sheet design.

[@Xune2000]

Maybe they could get Jim Keller in too help them on the new design... Oh, wait, nevermind.

[@PohnnyRico]

some websites wrote its a zen1 moment. holly shit i was laughing so hard xD

[@saricubra2867]

Zen 1 moment already happened, it's called Alder Lake, in fact, in this channel Moore's Law is Dead said it was Sandy Bridge 2.0

[@richardyao9012]

Tom, would you recommend Arrow Lake as an expensive paperweight?

[@JBits-m9p]

Intel is circling the drain, and may soon no longer exist, crazy times.

[@biomagic8959]

this is no zen 1 moment, it's more nokia moment. also there is no way us goverment would ever allow a foreign company to acquire intel. if they really run out of cash they'll split the company into foundry and design. apple would be allowed to buy the fabs. design part would be offered to amd or nvidia so eveything stays inside usa.

[@sebbbi2]

Zen was 40% higher IPC than Piledriver/Excavator. It was running everything massively faster. It did deliver the promised improvement. Arrow Lake doesn’t beat 14900K. Where’s the 40% gains to warrant calling it Intel’s Zen moment? Sure Zen 1 didn’t beat Intel’s flagship in games, but it was very close and it had a lead in MT. But Intel has such a big lead that it would have required a miracle to overcome Intel in games in a single generation. Zen 1 was very close to that miracle. People were extremely impressed. Arrow Lake is the opposite or that. Quite similar to the disappointed Bulldozer launch indeed.

[@lharsay]

Zen was released like 5 years after Piledriver. Arrow Lake is still easily more than 40% faster than Comet Lake 5 years ago.

[@-Blue-_]

If apple buy intel i will never ever buy intel in future

[@squatch545]

or Apple.

[@Absolutely_Allen]

I feel like the productivity performance even at this state is so good yet gaming performance just doesn’t make sense. I think in 3 months it will be a solid product

[@TheKuiou]

impossible.. because of the latency increase and thats hardware related. It´s Like Zen 1 and zen 2 back then.

[@saricubra2867]

​@@TheKuiouZen 5 at launch had broken latency until it was fixed with software updates.

[@TubeandJar]

I could see Samsung merging with Intel and then making their own chips that are better than qualcomm snapdragon "in house". They could also provide funds and minds to make CPUs that actually work. Of course that would be years away. For now, all hail AMD.

[@tringuyen7519]

Agreed. A Samsung merger would improve both design & FABs at Intel! Snapdragon Elite is a dumpster fire. CPUs without software are just paperweights!

[@marktackman2886]

Its so bad Gamers Nexus did a factory tour where Intel was soliciting help FROM THE FACTORY FLOOR!

[@efx245precor3]

Good one thx.

[@FMBriggs]

It was strange seeing Der8auer being positive towards Arrow Lake, until I saw an ad on facebook for his new Arrow Lake delidding tools and it made sense.

[@DreadyBearBoi]

@@FMBriggs Yeah that’s definitely not why he makes those for every CPU what a goofy take. Not to mention out of anybody Roman cares the least about CPU wars. That man is set for life.

[@Wasmachineman]

>man shills for product by company X because he's got a commercial interest in product Y he sells More news at 11.

[@Altirix_]

my thoughts are its likely not a full merger / acquisition. rather something closer to what O2 and Virgin media did with VMO2. maybe a joint venture for the fab side of the business that tries to make IFS and SFS more competitive.

[@amindamok]

Something tells me that Microsoft would put considerable effort into preventing anyone from acquiring Intel. They will certainly at least cry foul due to monopoly concerns.

[@sodiumvapor13]

Intel is cooked. This was their last shot at coming back from disaster.

[@WaterZer0]

They *might* have a chance next gen, but this will definitely turn most people off for a long time.

[@JoeWayne84]

What?? The second they have the best product they will be back on top same way as AMD was only budget CPUs till ryzen 5000 when they actually became competitive..

[@jonathanjones7751]

@@JoeWayne84I totally agree. And people will start trash talking AMD the second Intel is back on top (which based on history will happen. This industry is back and forth). The “tech community” are so devoid of any commitment it’s actually unreal.

[@drewnewby]

@sodiumvapor13 IFS is cooked, DIY is cooked, Xeon is cooked, but they still have laptops, and OEM. Apple survived on Foxconn made cellphones, so crazier has happened. They're subbing fab for certain, and more likely it will part ways. The comments will be full of those in disbelief, just like when IBM fell from grace. They'll get over it.

[@jeremymerry7967]

Moat likely

[@marktackman2886]

I was actually shocked HOW BAD the reviews were. RIP Intel

[@skootdiggity1301]

This guy always looks like he just stepped out of the shower.

[@jellyfishnexus3132]

Imagine Apple controlling the CPU market next to NVidia controlling the GPU market, wouldn't that be a cute timeline?

[@hishnash]

Apple's GPUs (in perf/w) for compute and what they need them for are very compstaive to NV. Apple is never going to bother with PC drivers so sure they are not going to compete with NV in that space but I could see them push into ML/AI server spaces to compete with NV if they had cheap node capacity.

[@dansanger5340]

If Samsung bought Intel, that would reduce the number of major foundries in the world by one. So, that ain't happening.

[@charlesg5085]

Our boy is back with a hot loaf! #hotloaf keep it up!

[@imperatorpalpatine3978]

Something I found interesting about Intel Arrow Lake was the DLVR. When you disable it, the powerdraw sinks by about 50W in Cinebench, so it basically draws 170W from the socket in Cinebench, while still beating everything around it. This mostly works in highly threaded apps, but it still is huge. However, you need to measure the socket powerdraw, because the package power is wrongly shown.

[@Joppi1992]

I'm really curious about the hypothetical if intel would be taken over or merged with one of the others, then would any of those others be willing to steer intel back on track, or would they just integrate intel's foundries into their own chip ecosystems? Either way, if intel can't recover the massive amount of trust they've lost from both industries and consumers, then AMD would be the only relevant desktop maker for video games either way. For creator apps, then Apple would still be available as replacements, albeit clunky since Apple is Apple and doesn't want users to use their hardware for things outside of Apple's closed ecosystem.

[@kyokyodisaster4842]

Apple-intel is especially strange given Apple is such a creative focus computer compared to gaming Intels... It's wild thinking it might mean macs might accidently become gaming machines lmao

[@kintustis]

apple buying intel is an unimaginably horrible outcome. It's by far the worst thing that intel would ever do. It would screw every last customer of intel, destroy the PC and general diy computing market forever, and drive up overall tech costs for the next few decades, padding only the pockets of a few shareholders at the top. obviously, this means it is the most likely outcome.

[@davidhalliday7776]

Seems like any of apple, Samsung or Qualcomm could be interested in the foundries. With capital to get to cutting edge EUV this could be a thing. The design and product side may stay independent like when AMD spun out its foundry as Global Foundries.

[@JahonCross]

Intel never misses an opportunity to miss 😅

[@nuclearkek3706]

Same to amd😂

[@JahonCross]

@@nuclearkek3706 true 🤣🤣🤣

[@jeff3575davison]

Did I hear your say "ERROR"Lake???

[@WutTheHekk]

Fitting

[@gamesthatmatter9374]

it started 10 years ago when intel made the DEI initiative company wide . I shorted intel stocks knowing this 10 year announcement and made a 5 digit profit ;)

[@libaf5471]

I wonder if the weird power draw and the overall high power draw of arrow lake is a chiplet issue. Maybe the microcode doesn't properly sleep state unused silicon or something? I don't think it's a question if intel will get the instabilty issues under control but when. I really hope they can salvage the efficiency situation as well, because that's what I was hoping to see from this gen.

[@ennio5763]

What happened to the "Meteor Lake Refresh" leak from this channel that was supposed to populate the Core Ultra i3 range?

[@tj_2701]

So the cross-licensing between AMD and Intel is so complex and based on a court ruling that when pepole thout AMD might go bankrupt it was said that anyone that bought them would lose the abilto make any CPU based on x86 , even though all AMD & Intel CPUs at the time where based on AMD_64. So wouldn't anybody buying Intel run the risk of losing the right to make a 64bit x86 CPU unless they renegotiate with AMD? Maybe Intel's current deal allows for the transfer of the deal during a purchase. I know for anyone buying out AMD itsw more complicated because it's based in a court ruling,.

[@tringuyen7519]

So SEC won’t think Intel is a monopoly takes over AMD? You’re kidding right? Only one x86 CPU maker in world?

[@macicoinc9363]

Yeah, that original court ruling for x86 is bonkers, I feel like it wouldn’t of happened as it did even 5 year later.

[@tj_2701]

@@tringuyen7519 nobody is talking about Intel & AMD merging or that one would buy the other. What are you even talking about?

[@FavoritoHJS]

Apple buying out Intel seems kinda ironic considering Apple's past Once upon a time, in the late 90's, they could be considered a competitor of Intel by the AIM (Apple, IBM, Motorola) alliance, which brought PowerPC Macs and such Of course, those times are long past us, and Apple eventually used Intel processors for their hardware, but still

[@bwcbiz]

Qualcomm might need Intel's x86 IP to replace ARM, the way things are going in that area. Though I think a settlement is more likely between Qualcomm and ARM than Qualcomm buying Intel.

[@arenzricodexd4409]

Qualcomm buying intel will not going to be approved anymay. The way how Qualcomm abusing their wireless/modem/baseband tech are very well known around the world there will be tons of company buying x86 processor will bet against Qualcomm to acquire intel.

[@Flameancer]

My oh my how the mighty have fallen. I remember when I first got into PC building in late 2013/2014 and the whole market was like buy intel. Now the positions have completely flipped. I think an apple buyout would be interesting because it would put apple in a unique position to have a relationship with servers and maybe they can reboot an Apple Server division.

[@pr0xZen]

I suspect Apple's kinda meager IPC increase has more to do with churning out on mostly the same scale dies on node still. that same node still. N3 is a bit like the Intel 14nm (+++++11) experience for Apple these days. That one they bought out *_ALL_* of TSMCs fab capacity for beforehand. The one Zen 5 was developed fo but because of this had to fall back on inferior N4 options.

[@ZeZeBatata69]

Intel is so much more valuable than 100B lol. When did we start buying the fantasies the Wall Street bros manufacture?

[@bankaimaster999]

Any more news on strix halo (max Ai+) and/or 9000X3D on laptops. I am a laptop user due to travel reasons but will eventually settle with desktop when the time comes. So right now looking for a X3D CPU with an RTX 5090 build. We've heard a lot about the 50 series on laptop and some info on the ai max+ chip but nothing on X3D laptop CPUs.

[@alexanderbelov6892]

If CPUs for gaming is an important market why Intel does not add 256Mb of L3/L4 cache instead of GPU tile? Top processors are not used with iGPU for gaming. Top processors are used with powerful discrete 3D card (GPU). Physical tiles place can be: SOC tile shifts to relace GPU tile on the edge. IO tile goes between SOC tile and Compute tile place. L3/L4 cache tile is placed along Compute tile instead of IO tile and Filler tile. Base tile shall be replaced with new one to provide necessary communications.

[@tj_2701]

So if Intel is bought by or merged with Samsung, I'm guessing the US Government would be buying more from AMD and less from "Intel" because it would no longer be a US company. But maybe they would have to be Fabed by a US company or at least in a US based Fab. I know South Korea is our ally, but surely the US can't have it's Government& Military servers running on hardware made by another country when there is a US owned option.

[@deepbludreams]

South Korea is our strongest Asian ally and massively Anti Chinese, if anybody was allowed to take over intel and not be a US company, it would be Samsung

[@FeintMotion]

They're already doing this. DoD paid Intel millions of dollars to buy themselves out of the supply contract for Frontier Supercomputer so they could switch it to AMD. This was the biggest flip but it's happened all up and down agencies and bureaus since 2019

[@NadeemAhmed-nv2br]

Tsmc will make stuff for the military but in it's US fabs

[@ux-ss6ds]

The El Capitan used in the maintenance of US nuclear weapons is manufactured in TSMC fabs.

[@tj_2701]

@@ux-ss6ds sure, but currently that would be a US design built in an Ally Fab. Where the above hypothetical could be a foreign owned design built in a foreign owned Fab, and for more sensitive or critical tasks that should be considered too high a risk even if it's an Ally, especially when there is an option that is partly or wholly US controlled.

[@christiankrueger8048]

Thank you!

[@crazybeatrice4555]

Qualcomm seems a little cooked right now as well...

[@zyxyuv1650]

Please make a deep dive episode that just answers one question: What is going on in the chip industry -- Why are both Intel and AMD suddenly having problems with advancing the performance of X86? Why is the 5800X3D still competitive? This was supposed to be an amazing time for CPUs, but it looks like we're stuck with performance that hasn't moved much in years...and we're going to continue like this for 2 more years at least, until Zen 6, or some Intel future generation.

[@Hugh_I]

We're not really stuck with performance that hasn't moved in years. Sure this gen on desktop so far sucks, but any previous zen release had a consistent ~20% uplift across different metrics, until zen5. There doesn't seem to actually be an issue with AMD being able to push it further, though. They did it on server. They could've given zen5 a new IO die like Epyc, which probably would've gotten them there. My guess is, they knew Arrow Lake wouldn't be able to compete with their X3Ds and decided to cheap out desktop with a good enough product to maintain their leadership, and put more effort into Mobile/Server instead. They may also figure that for gaming, it's X3D anyways, so if the 9800X3D with significantly higher clock speeds can deliver a decent uplift, they don't have to fear WRT gamers, as Arrow Lake doesn't even get close to the 7800X3D.

[@NadeemAhmed-nv2br]

It's because windows 24h2 update boosted ryzens performance across the board by close to 9% on avg making the older gens much more competitive than they were a few months back. 14900k was the clear winner with only the 7800x3d beating it in gaming but after the update, most ryzen cpu became so much better that the 14900k dropped from 2nd place to a 3 cpu tie for 3rd place

[@chronicle_4]

A dark horse to buy Intel or parts of it is Cisco. Even though their partnership had issues in the past, this is an opportunity for Cisco to control the hardware like what Apple was doing with the end result of a more optimize code.

[@gametime4316]

I hope NV will buy intel so NV will finely make X86 CPUs and sell the fab to samsung or something to avoided problems with the FTC again. NV is such an extremely completive company and have great innovative nature that the X86 market need.

[@jawsh5628]

I'm in grad school and I'm writing about the current Intel situation for my final project in my class centered on corporate strategy. Thank you so much for your insight. You and your sources have been cited

[@ivankovachev8835]

Ok, but if Arrow Lake is 90% as good for gaming on average, it's not bad, it's just not as good. Why do people say one destroys the other with such small differences?

[@LieutenantSandcastle]

The fact that Intel went to TSMC to have Arrow Lake chips made is frankly jaw-dropping to me. So what, is Intel not up to the task themselves anymore? Are they lacking fabs? Not that I can tell. They apparently just don't have the chops anymore.

[@CrazedCorgi]

would this be in conflict with the chips act and buy American?

[@jaynorwood2]

phoronix got an ASUS bios update for their Arrow Lake board and ran HPC type tests with DDR5 8000 memory today. They got a 31% performance update for 8000 vs 6000 memory in the first test, for example. This is on Ultra 9 285K.

[@tstager1978]

That is true. It does come off a lot like piledriver. Now, I wonder where they will go from here. If Intel stays on this trajectory, they might have to go back to the drawing board if they can still afford to do so!

[@Nanerbeet]

So based on your rumors I'm going to go out next week and buy tens of thousands of dollars worth of Intel call options. Hope you're right!

[@Jimster481]

I think that the Arrow Lake launch is honestly even worse than PileDriver. Because truthfully, PileDriver didn't have stability issues, and software all worked on it. I know that bulldozer had some problems with stability, just in the sense that clustered multithreading wasn't something that Windows was used to. But it did actually work out of the box. Arrow Lake does not. I also don't think that the US government will allow intel to be purchased by a foreign company. I would think that they would actually push for a merger with AMD, which I personally wouldn't like, versus another company like Apple. Qualcomm would be another possible contender, like you mentioned though, they don't exactly have the money. Interesting times ahead.

[@centuriomacro9787]

Hearing the Qualcomm, Apple and Samsung merging with Intel rumors, the Samsung one makes the most sense to me. On the one hand Intels most advanced nodes seem to be superior from a performance standpoint compared to Samsungs. Samsung on the hand a could surely help getting Intel some customers.

[@DreadyBearBoi]

Listen man all these rumors regarding buyouts are likely due to the advice of Morgan Stanley to hear these things out. They hired them specifically to defend against activist investors because some on the board feel that would be a worse outcome. As it stands for their nodes 18A is unproven since it’s not out yet however it’s seemingly moving forward to before EoY to start mass production. All 18A has to do is be decent especially at high voltages like typical Intel nodes and it’s immediately a winner for HPC because TSMC 3nm still has the high voltage scaling issue. Intel basically just has to survive until the end of the year and I’d imagine more foundry deals start rolling in. Which is really all they need right now. Desktop for sure might be ground conceded this gen however mobile is looking more and more like a wrap which is a lot of their CCG revenue. They will be just fine.

[@cj09beira]

"I’d imagine more foundry deals start rolling in," i really doubt that, they just cancelled the node they started the foundry services with, you would trust intel after this? with your next product you can't afford to loose? or would you go with the company that has been rock steady.

[@DreadyBearBoi]

@@cj09beira You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about past headlines. They skipped 20A because there was no point to using it if they could just fast track 18A. Which is exactly what is happening it’s likely before EoY.

[@DreadyBearBoi]

@@cj09beira and clearly you’re coming from the PoV of someone who is leveraged to AMD stock…

[@jonathanjones7751]

20A was never an external node. Only Intel was going to use it.

[@DreadyBearBoi]

@@jonathanjones7751 So a degree, they had some plans initially for it however it became an internal node likely when they decided to just push 18A.

[@cynicist8114]

I'm glad I bought my Snapdragon X Elite laptop rather than wait for Intel to recover. I'll never go back to x86 again, at least not for mobile devices. I'd love to see a desktop ARM chip one day.