Arrows upside down in the quiver? Archery FAQ

[@crisloucks6805]

Everything i have read on this subject has said that the arrows are carried that way to protect the fletching from the elements and to make point selection easier. Many of these quivers had a flap or cap to completely close the quiver in foul weather. Also these quivers seem to be more popular further east and not at all in the middle east. Your reasoning seems equally valid. Probably one more aspect of the design.

[@MantrinDharmananda]

You forgot to mention that it makes arrowhead selection very easy: armored/unarmored men, hunting game. Just another way to make horseback shooting comfortable (grabbing front part of the arrow). Another way is to make quiver shorter (mongolian design).

[@ArminHirmer]

True. Thanks for your input

[@gordonallison1055]

Reconstructive archaeology has taught us much that has been forgotten and only makes sense in application. This obviously works for broadheads- but who would have thought to carry their arrows pointy side up- its not intuitive and is only seen as sensible once its tried in reality. Excellent investigation.

[@Soviless99]

i think its also for being able to grab the arrow behind the arrowhead and being able to have it firmly grasped while riding a horse in battle. holding the arrow behind the arrowhead and giving it to the bow hand to hold while readjusting ones grip to grab the nock to draw and shoot seems musch more secure than holding the arrow solely by the nock

[@BesnyVlcik]

Thanks a lot for taking the time to answer my question in a video and well argued points! (pardon the pun, couldn't help it)

[@Soviless99]

these types of quivers have always fascinated me. I am planning on making one of these with a deer hide I tanned. wood supports for the back plate,sides and base to encase the opening of the quiver. very informative video, I never considered preservation of the arrow tip by keeping them upside down, I thought the primary reason for upside down arrangement was for the ease of grabbing an arrow and loading it as you have more control of an arrow during loading by holding it behind the arrowhead.

[@godkenjiX99]

I do archery in LARP. I have my arrows facing up because the foam tip is too damn big to have them facing down lol, but when I do target archery my arrows face down. I have noticed when I am LARPing I am able to shoot faster because my arrows are up and ready to go. one less movement when having to shoot really fast at enemies running towards me. I think I may try to start training target archery with my arrows facing up, so I always have the same rhythm. Thank for this video Armin, I always enjoy them. lots of knowledge you are putting out.

[@leman7277]

I happen to own a reconstruction of an early Russian quiver of this design, you mentioned the lid that closes on the top, but there commonly was also a lid at the bottom, so you could, when preparing your quiver open the bottom lid, and place the arrows inside the wide end without damaging the fletching. This is especially useful when your quiver is filled out to it's max.

[@ArminHirmer]

Cool thanks

[@trabantdelux]

Cumans were Turcic speaking seminomad horseback tribes. They merged with the local aristocracy when they came to Europe. Reason - they were great cavalry. They became rulers in most of the Balkan and Central european countries. There are still nomadic Cuman tribes in Pakistan. Other tribes got buried with arrow tips up as well... Huns, Avars, Alans, Bulgars, Magyars and others as well. For sure the feel of what type arrow you need is the simplest and most logical reason.

[@ringokidd387]

Super informative very amazing skills and a very beautiful form that's Purpose Form and Function! At its finest!

[@shushuyu]

It's practical. Whether the archer can make use of this style is all on them. I personally can't do this. lol

[@kovarilaszlo3146]

There are also Hun quivers found in Hungary that are of this fashion, some with the upper part open, or the cap can be closed/open. It's really good for keeping a low profile while loading, and as you mentioned, keeps the tips sharp. Some say it was not meant to be used to load from it directly. When horse archers charged, they had only about 5 arrows that were held on the bowquiver, they used that. Perhaps during retreat they refilled it... don't know if it's doable, but word goes :)

[@zsoltschwerlichovszky107]

You are right!! You doing well!

[@rickydlayaute5387]

Encore une excellente découverte à partir des archives historiques!!!!!👍👌👏👏👏😊😊😊 En plus les empennages de plumes ne sont pas endommagés à la sortie du fourreau 👍😄 Bravo Armin !!!! Excellent !! Thank's a lot for your historical and usefull job!! And no dammage for the feathers of the arrows cause they are pulled in the right way!! Go on Armin !!! Richard Lionheart France😎

[@ninadelcastillo178]

great video! does make alot of sense. very neat, i had wondered about the shape of those types of quiver and didnt realize the arrows went point side up. thank you for sharing this demonstration!! i think one day i might try it. btw beautiful bow too!!

[@syangkhan]

Indeed! It protects the arrowheads in a traditional Central Asian quiver (rectangular box style with no inner pockets). In a quiver of later design (for example the Manchu quiver), there are many inner pockets made of soft but thick material to store the arrows individually, so the arrows can be stored with the arrowheads "down" without damage.

[@DobromirManchev]

My first thought was "This would ruin your feathers so fast!". But then i figured that this "technique" was used for combat, where you usually don't ever care to re-use an arrow, you'll only shoot it once. I guess you can put your arrows gently in without breaking the feathers, while gaining all the other benefits others have mentioned. Finally, perhaps even the quiver life-span is impacted - An army would march / ride a long time, having a bunch of super-sharp arrows jump around in a quiver will end up puncturing it in the end.

[@MikeMafiaII]

The Cumans are not necessarily Turkish but rather Turkic. The Cumans were nomadic and were basically from the Eurasian steppe, eventually settling in Eastern Europe. I'd have to say that point about blunting arrowheads is a good reason. Most convincing is that it just makes it easier to nock when drawing with the thumb. Might put my arrows in upside down my quiver to try it out. And ofcourse, thanks for all the great content!

[@abeldasilva9368]

Bagsh Armin I do hope one day you test a few of Cuman quivers I need one too for my collection.

[@rondumontier1187]

Well, I wanted to see u ride the imaginary horse while shooting. But great demostration anyway. Many yrs ago I tried this cuz someone asked me about it. I mite build a quiver like this just because U make look like it works. Great video👌

[@ArminHirmer]

My imaginary horse was off that day :)

[@TheDave570]

All the bodkins i have used did not have a blade like sharpness, but had a very sharp point. So no chance of slicing fingers, so that quiver does make a lot of sense !! Thanks, another new historical fact !! The fletching isn't that important, maybe they loaded from the bottom up ?

[@vaportrail226]

That makes a lot of sense. I would have thought to prevent the arrows from cutting through the quiver. Thanks for the insight

[@achmadyazir1039]

Excellent explanation... Thanks you!

[@SPACE_GEKKO]

This quiver gives you also the possibility to choose your tip, if you have different types. Also protects feathers better from rain

[@tdollars8052]

First time ive ever seen this concept and pretty much convinced

[@PooMonkeyMan]

Interesting… Reminds me of the Mongolian quiver where you draw the arrows from the bottom of the quiver instead of the top. On another note, I like the new trick to cut down the arrow retrieval time and make it look like you did in a second. And nice bow here too.

[@vladimirpetrov1766]

Thank you very much. Very interesting.

[@archeryboras5921]

Interesting.

[@TheCallmom]

Well now I've been spoiled on what a quiver should be. That looks amazing. Cant find anything like it on google.(the one in the cuman illustration) wonder if I could find a leather worker and have him make it.

[@miguelveratraditionalarche9374]

Good to know! Thank you.🙏

Great video.

[@cedricathlan9399]

I would argue that this is also the best way to make sure you don't hurt the horse (or your thigh) by accident by poking it with an arrow pointing downwards. No matter what you do, with the cuman quiver, arrows never points down. I'm sure that experienced archers wouldn't do that mistake in training conditions, but you never know what might happen in a fight.

[@Amaruzi]

You can put all your arrows in a single compartment box and find the specific type of broadhead, bodkin, etc by feel alone. You're way less likely to stab your horse in the neck if you're holding the arrow so close to the head too.

[@syangkhan]

Also this is a good way to store the arrows for safety reason, but I'm wondering would it be practical for long arrows.

[@abdulkabza]

Nice video!

[@oferbechor1579]

THANK YOU

[@Appleblade]

Very cool. And man would it suck to get shot with an arrow.

[@macq1982]

Very interesting. I think I kinda got addicted to Malta Archery channel and damn, Armin - you made me get into eastern style archery :). One short question - for the first bow (ever) - 30 lbs Flagella Dei Scythian or Magyar Short Bow or Ali Bows Crim-Tatar - which would You recommend? My draw length is around 28'-29', Im a 36 yo male, average build and shape. Simply can't decide and I can only hide one bow at a time from my wife... Also considering going even lower on the draw (25 lbs?). Please, help a newbie out :)

[@ArminHirmer]

Tough question. If I really would have to choose between these, I would go for Tatar by Alibow. But Scythian from Flagella Dei is great too. You will love both. Have fun

[@SPACE_GEKKO]

Hi, I started eastern style archery a few month ago, after many years of shooting Olympic Recurve and Bare Bow.After watching a lot of Videos - thanks Armin! - I bought a Skythian from Flagella Dei with the lowest possible poundage (arrived with 23#), although I shoot 40# on Olympic Recurves. I had a lot of fun with this great bow and low poundage is best to learn new techniques. After a few month of practicing thumb release I now bought a 35# biocomposite form Grozer, arrived today, so can't tell anything about this bow yet.

[@macq1982]

@@ArminHirmer Thank you! Tatar it is then! :)

[@Taylor_in_Southern_Oregon]

Ah now I have to make one.

[@nomadicartsarchery]

Angle of quiver and suspension is a bit different. Overall, good explanation.

[@ArminHirmer]

I needed to work with what I had on hands and that was a cardboard box and a strap

[@nomadicartsarchery]

That is fine . You had to start somewhere. Upper suspension point is usually around bottom of top opening. Lower one is roughly middle of bottom part . For walking both straps would be used . On horse , lover strap would be loose . Just my observation.

[@EnriqueLUrcia]

..and in close combat this quiver protect the arrows agains swords. (or am I wrong?)

[@joharmarangburu376]

Nice bow

[@Hutchie2112]

At first I thought it couldn't work, but it makes sense. Are you marketing that new quiver you are using ;)

[@ArminHirmer]

Hahaha

[@archeryboras5921]

I have not heard Hutchie for a long time. I was worried that something happened to you. Are you okay? Nice joke, with quiver.

[@Hutchie2112]

@@archeryboras5921 I have had some health problems, but I am starting to heal. Thank you my friend.

[@archeryboras5921]

@@Hutchie2112 Get well soon. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

[@PresidentoftheManosquare]

It makes shooting slower though.

[@JoseGonzalez-kc4eq]

Hi thanks for this great vids Armin Hirmer. Im new in this Archery thing, I have purchased a 34inch draw turkish bow. I would like to know what is the ideal length for the arrows and the spline. Thanks so much.

[@ArminHirmer]

depends on how long you want to draw the bow. when you draw full, go with 34inch shafts, spine depends on the draw weight

[@mountainwolf1]

Has anyone made one of these quivers for you yet?

[@ArminHirmer]

nooooo, never...

[@bradisberg8315]

If you are climbing around in the woods and arrows bottom out when you climb down off something you risk getting stabbed in your vitals as the arrows are driven up into your side.

[@ArminHirmer]

These is always some risk in certain circumstances. Nothing is perfect for every use

[@rexmcstiller4675]

And when you hqve different tips on your arrows you can easy choose the right.

[@Mustafa1998]

Cumans are not from Turkey. They're Turkic people but they lived from Hungary to Ukraine and Caucasus. During battle of Manzikert between Seljuk Turks from Persia and Byzantines. Cuman and Pecheneg Turks *Who were Christian, defected on the battlefield, because Seljuks were like them, but Muslim. Later Cumans in Balkans raided several Byzantine cities. After a while, when Mongols arrived Europe, their country was destroyed, they seeked refuge in Hungary. Hungarian king accepted them, because Hungarian dynasty Arpad was also Cuman-Kipchak as origin. Today there are not much Cuman left, few thousands in Hungary. But there are Turkic peoples like Karachay-Balkar people who speak similar language to Cumans today. Also Crimean Tatars can be considered mixture of remnants of Cumans and other Turkic peoples.

[@ArminHirmer]

Said I am no historian, just read a bit about it

[@ludvercz]

A few thousand? I'd argue that nobody is truly cuman but nearly every hungarian is to some extent.

[@Mustafa1998]

@@ludvercz There are still people in Hungary who identify themselves as Cumans.

[@ludvercz]

@@Mustafa1998 There are also people who are somewhat cumans (myself mostly from my mothers side) but never even thought of "identifying" as a minority. Like I said, nearly everyone in Hungary is technically cuman to some extent. There's been a bit of a revival movement since the fall of the iron-curtain, which makes more people opt for it on the census, but I doubt that number represents anything scientific about either ethnicity or culture. It's merely a social trend I'm afraid. The cuman language is dead since the 1700`s, their religion has fossilized into fragments embedded into the local folklore, their genes mixed with the local slavs, germans, and of course whatever little was left of the hungarians after the tatar invasion. Like I said, nobody is _truly_ cuman even though everybody _is_ a little-bit.

[@aimarlangley4156]

I wonder if they accidentally poke their hands

[@ArminHirmer]

I didn't at least haha

[@nurfatrochman3726]

Im interested with your bow in this video.. what model, turkish? And bowyer name?

[@ArminHirmer]

Szimeister

[@nurfatrochman3726]

@@ArminHirmer thank you

[@__shadow__]

what type of quiver is it

[@ArminHirmer]

from the cuman tribe, side quiver with arrows upside down

[@longnosearchery4283]

This way you reduce the risk of pricking your pony in the butt with an arrow to 0 too.. when bouncing around in mountain areas shooting the enemies from above!

[@ZEITfuerKLARHEIT]

Selam Armin,in nearly every video of yours, u allways shoot without zihgir or Tap, why? u must have build a triple layer extra skin on that thumb now i think.

[@ArminHirmer]

Haha quite a bit yes

[@zsoltschwerlichovszky107]

We Huns do same! (Hungary)

[@batuurdor]

And actually this kind of quivers are filled from the other end.

[@ArminHirmer]

Did not find another end

[@aronnemcsik]

hungarian quivers are look and function a lot like these

[@nontimebomala2267]

Disadvantage is falling on your broadheads ... never a good experience ...

[@ArminHirmer]

I think they are good protected this way

[@nontimebomala2267]

@@ArminHirmer This was a problem with bow quivers in the fifties and sixties. There was a back quiver called a "St. John's Quiver" many years ago. You could pull arrows from the bottom of the quiver and the fletch was protected at the top. This was a very nice stalking quiver. I like the way the arrows are protected in the quiver you are showing but personally would always be afraid of falling on the quiver in the field and possibly pushing a broad head through the top of the quiver. The right materials could completely prevent that though. You make very nice and interesting videos. Thanks you so much for your knowledge.

[@b4bluey]

Personally, I think It`s an awful Idea !! and maybe after a while, Nobody does this anymore??