Arthars doesn't like these terms

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#FFXIV #Arthars #highlights

[@Lizard14]

10:15 also do not confuse "real casuals" that screenshot, post and log out to gposers. Those tend to say they're casual, but the amount of time and effort they spend on "just" taking screenshots is NOT casual Being a casual or hardcore player isn't about the type of content you play, it's about HOW you play it no matter what the content is.

[@happy_camper]

Exactly. If we really want to use these terms, we need to be honest about what they mean. My FC leader is a crafter/gatherer and MB price flipper. With multiple alts. They’re online practically 24/7 and they’re most dedicated and “hardcore” player I’ve ever met in the game.

[@nebula8851]

2 hours for a Furina-inspired pose, by the way. 2 whole-ass hours.

[@xaiamorghana]

Same. I might be doing DSR right now but I'm playing really casual hours. Logging in every few days to raid and then venturing retainers and that's it. I don't do other stuff. That's what I consider casual.

[@EdgeGilid]

Somehow i feel like you immediately commented this as soon as you heard what arthars said and haven't finished the video. 😂

[@FromHJH]

I am a casual... "Proceed to create 15 alt characters to fill in a FC and beautifully design all the chambers and set up a FC hotel RP...."

[@ariamachi]

that's does not sound casual to me, sounds hardcore rp

[@iantaakalla8180]

They could be a casual raider, but then they should say that.

[@Deevon667]

Arthars is stunlocked by misunderstanding of colloquium and context

[@jakheemmohammed1347]

Casual as a measure of time commitment got conflated with filthy casual as a measure of skill.

[@CryofthePlanet]

On the subject of the question on whether or not 3 hours a day/4 days a week is considered casual, some responses I got were: "Lmao no I don't think so" "No" "What casual group is running that often?" (bonus follow up from another member: "a shitty one") "Huh?" "I see you also watch Arthars" "No way that's more than we run" "I'd say yes" "yes that is pretty casual imo" One point that was also brought up was that if you change your raid hours to fit your life you are casual, while changing your life around your raid hours makes you hardcore. Tangential to the actual discussion, but an interesting point.

[@Vash_tha_Stampede]

In Stormblood I was a casual player, just casually spending 8 hours a day in Eureka grinding crystals for all my relic weapons. Super casual

[@Kuhazan]

Having never played WoW and coming over to XIV in 2020 from GW2/BDO (still play GW2) XIV is the first MMO I have played in a span of 23 years with these terms. Every game prior to XIV everything was fuck around and find out mode no one ever cared about what "core" you were... new content released and you just went to the new place or pressed the button to go fuck around and find out.

[@Thundawich]

To me, the only thing that really distinguishes casual/mid/hardcore is the commitments you expect other people to make/are expected to make yourself. Casual is just log on whenever to do whatever and if people are around might do stuff with them. Mid is scheduled times to do stuff maybe a couple of times a week, but don't sweat it if something comes up. Hardcore is permablacklisted if you are 20s late to the pre-raid discord voice channel meeting.

[@TheDraco175]

The only time I see someone say they're casual in an MMO is in response to said person fucking up something.

[@deepdarksecretful]

I'm a casual ff14 player tho. Play the story and sod off straight after 😅

[@Kizoja]

Yeah, it's always weird to me when the discussions of casual vs midcore vs hardcore come up. A lot of people consider it simply just a view of how much time you invest, but personally I think there's a few different metrics that you can be casual to hardcore with. You could have hella free time but not approach the game seriously and in that case you may put hardcore hours into the game while playing the game casually. You could be like my TOP static where some weeks we could only get 2 raid nights in a week, which many people would consider a casual amount of raid time, but our group's expectations or the dreaded "mindset" was to take it seriously, make good use of our time, come prepared. You could have a TOP static that raids every night for a few hours, but they just joke around and have fun and aren't worried if people don't study. That'd be more toward the hardcore hours with a "casual" approach to the game.

[@HarumiYu]

The problem for me overall is when people base their personality around the MMO they play, and you made a really good point about people using the term, I never heard about this "division" of playstyle, until I played FFXIV. I think the term is more present nowadays, like 2020+, because of those players from Second Life or other social games that likes to "hate" on raiders and call them "no life" and stuff, when they spend 10-15 hours in the game, while who raid joins just to raid for a few hours and leave. Edit: Just asked my static, they told me to shut up and join the party because we had to clear. xdd

[@aliasonarcotics]

i feel like those terms were imported elswhere into xiv. i've certainly seen them around within other game communities like monster hunter and dark souls

[@tciddados]

Pretty sure I remember back in BC/WotLK era hearing guilds advertise themselves as casual. Of course, they still played a ton, but it was the kind of guilds where they might just occasionally go into kara/ZG or whatever, but it was just intended as a kind of guild event night rather than really like, intentional raid prog. The real issue of casual/hardcore is just that there's multiple axes to consider (time spent, skill expectation, content types, etc) but people try to pretend it's just a singular label.

[@ich3730]

If you say "sorry i cant go drinking tonight, its raid" thats hardcore. If you say "sorry guys i cant raid today, im going out" thats casual.

[@kaishuno]

I mean, if you have a promised commitment to a group of people like a static and you decide to just not show up then you're just a jerk. If it's just saying you'll not being showing up for maps or roulette then you're casual and that's fine.

[@TankyCrobat]

A REAL player gets their alt account merchant to stand in Prontera to sell while going back out to Seals and solo grind to 99 rather than joining a party at Thanatos Tower, and then chill and afk at Prontera square for a couple hours when you want to socialize. Also Bless Agi please

[@VizerPS]

in the ragnarok online open beta i spent 6 hours a day sitting and chatting near the entrance of payon cave... dangerously reminiscent of limsa RPers

[@TankyCrobat]

​@@VizerPSI can hear the music in my head even

[@zeeder7975]

I just call them non-raiders. Casuals flexing their parses, eureka bozja relics, turn 4 savage and ultimate weapons are getting common. They are raiders, not those roles which those non-raiders are doing.

[@panamakira]

You bring up a great point about the casual vs hardcore conversation. People doing every single thing/achievement besides savage doesn't mean they're not hardcore. It's just they're spending incredible amount of times in other parts in the game

[@Druuna89X]

We used the terms Casual and Midcore in Everquest 2 in 2005, they're not new terms for FFXIV exclusives.

[@cobbsrules]

I have a friend who plays FFXIV maybe two or three times a month getting through the story. He's been free to play for almost a year now and isn't caught up on story. He is the true casual.

[@UrickSan92]

I wonder if people just use 'Casual' as a term to sugarcoat being bad at the game mechanically. You arent Casual or hardcore, you're just bad or you no life the game XD

[@cg_sidd1745]

I played an OG Ragnarok Online private server earlier this year, and even playing "casually" you still need to put so much thought in playing it because your build in that game effects how you will have to play and level. It was a great feeling getting into it again, but I definitely cannot keep playing it with my current life.

[@ravensfinancial]

It depends on what you want to do. If you want to beat 14, then you'll need to commit to the game. Everything in 14 takes time lol

[@arlissven1555]

i probably counts as a weird hardcore player back in RO2.... but in a weird way.. i camp the very first wolf dungeon and that water cave i forgot the name and then help people clear it everyday, go to Alberta and distribute some free health potions every weekend, and nothing else

[@preciousshatterings177]

I've been saying this! "hardcore" isnt defined by the content you play, its how long you play and how dedicated you are to playing! I PERSONALLY know people who rp and craft that play more than some of the people I raid with, and they call themselves casual. like huh?!

[@hammsuke3981]

Casual or not, for my understanding its not only based on time spent, consistency and learning speed too. They can waste so much time but if they slow and keep wiping to same stuff for like 5000 years, for what. Midcore i only found in this game, it feels like casuals who are not confident of being hardcore but also ego of being called casual. There's also people says "no salt", it's just read as "i will play badly", same thing like you said in 22:29 totally agree with you

[@jpranindito]

i think hardcore or casual is just the way they approach them

[@ClessTheAngel]

I'll never forget my days playin Ragnarok Online! You had to grind your ass off but damn when you got strong, it felt so damn good.

[@drewmalekith4614]

Playing Lost Ark and grinding it out hard, FFXIV is now a game a play do new story stuff and then login to do new EX, Savage, Ultimate when they are current, maybe a few reclears, then back to Lost Ark, Remnant 2, LoL, etc

[@Scooopz]

Started with RO/EQ in high school, moved onto Wow then Aion now XIV. I haven't heard of casual players until XIV as well. If you play an MMO you aren't a casual. They are not designed for casual players, they are designed to monopolize your time. Logging in infrequently/not doing certain content doesn't make people casual.

[@ember-evergarden]

For me, Casual/Hardcore is simply the hours you spend raiding/playing a day. Nothing to do with skill or what you clear. I'm casual in that I raid 3 hours/3 days a week, but I've cleared all Ultimates. The only Hardcore shit I've in this game is week 1 when an expansion drops, and week 1 DSR 14 hours/day and we didn't even clear it that week.

[@Guigasdm]

I always hardcore the casual content. The idea of these terms are so silly. Edit: Randomly first?

[@lasco7468]

It's simple it's not the content but the amount of hours you put in the game who definite if you are casual or hardcore

[@anteprs7908]

yes it is content you cant be a causal and do ultimates . to be causal it the content,mindset and playtime .

[@kennys6288]

I’d say these terms are more about player skill and mentality toward certain content and improving, instead of amount of time you spent playing.

[@BaithNa]

Most people never use these terms or categories and just play content as they see fit.

[@VizerPS]

smart take

[@DrZlow]

damn that is a lot of words about hardcore_midcore_casual being just loose definitions of how serious u are taking the game.

[@24hr-Gaming]

This is actually true. FFXIV population is weird af compared to other games because the community actively sees engaging with the game as a bad thing. Other games if you're just a merchant, item collector, or into crafting or baseline gear alts so you can just get into content or do something, no one cares. FFXIV you know your rotation you're an elitist. If you step into raiding you're a filthy raider. It does make a huge deal out of nothing. And you can tell none of these people touch grass because they act like if you look at another game you're going to be bullied at the title screen.

[@HarumiYu]

Not to mention that usually who says a lot about the raiders and stuff, are the ones who spend more hours in the game chatting while the "no lifers" just login to raid and leave.

[@dingdongspaghetti]

it's funny wow is like the polar opposite of this, people who don't have a very clear understanding of how their class works and how to play it will never be taken seriously by the average wow player, and are often chased away for it

[@Sephvion]

Come on. A person logging on, taking pics, not doing anything except maybe send some messages too, isn't a casual. That's a tourist. They go somewhere (login), take some nice pictures of themselves, taste the cuisine (talk to the culture in FFXIV), then gtfo (logout). Then they put all their photos on social media, because who uses physical albums anymore, then forget about it until their next vacation. Casual is a catch all term, from the sound of it, depending on the person who is doing content, but not as hard as the next guy. I thought it was just a word that meant someone doesn't do anything strenuous. I played for 4 years and I've been in 1 extreme that was barely still current. I played a lot, yeah, but I never pushed myself, because I couldn't be bothered. I thought that made me a casual and I've had others agree to that. So, idk.

[@FeralKobold]

Im not sure there is a casual MMO player anymore, except for the odd few anecdotal people someone might know. But it used to be hardcore was classified as i think more than 2? Or maybe it was 1, hour per day, and the important thing, was whether or not you engaged with the game outside of the game. Ie, watching videos like this, reading class guides or news or patch notes, joining discords etc. The thing is these days, youre kind of expected to do that. Its rude now and you're wasting peoples time if you join a group and dont have at least a bare minimum understanding of wtf you're doing. I think its VERY rare now that you will find someone who has never looked up a guide or consumed content about the game and only plays like, for an hour or two a week. Thats just not the community that MMOs have fostered and evolved into over the last couple of decades and I think other games have taken the place for players like that. Like if someone just likes to collect pets or mounts or gposing, like they are still DUMPING hours in the game and out of it doing research and interacting on discords and youtube and twitter and on and on. It doesnt matter if they arent raiding, these are not casual players.

[@futurepastnow]

My guiding principle in games is to not do things I don't think are fun. I don't find death and failure in games fun, so I don't do ex trials or savage raids, and I haven't finished Bozja after three years of off-and-on trying. I wouldn't describe myself as a casual player, I play a lot. I just find other things to do.

[@chrislee5268]

Is your guiding principle being a massive coward

[@futurepastnow]

@@chrislee5268 different people find different things fun, hth

[@captainsavvy07]

Are you me? 😄 That's exactly my philosophy too. I used to do extreme trials to get the mounts when they were current, but there's too many 'one person messing up wipes everyone' mechs now so I've stopped doing them and will just wait until I can unsync them. I bounced off both Eureka and Bojza. I haven't even unlocked all the areas in Zadnor. I'm going to have to force myself to do Eureka to get the TT cards though😑

[@Orphan_of_Kos_or_some_say_Kosm]

@@chrislee5268 Is your guiding principle being a dickhead?

[@soluslunares6682]

Sigh. It does make sense but people don't specify and/or don't understand how much AVERAGE spare time their culture has and how they choose to divide for a given goal. Understand also you can raid hard-core content in midcore time block with a casual mentality. UNDERSTAND AND SPECIFY 😱

[@treebush]

Those casual players are the type to login everyday in gacha games and only play a half an hour then say they are not addicted when they’ve been stuck with a job that they feel they are required to login daily and say they are a casual gacha gamer because they only play one

[@aromenoir9552]

casual is playing casually (without regularity) midcore is playing the game on a regular basis semi HC is playing every day or nearly every day but you can still have a job HC is playing every day for the max amount, you cant have a job doing hardcore WP is HC but with a lot of skill :p

[@mooxart64]

Agreed. Simple.

[@wushuang_]

Nod

[@xL0stKIlah]

Mmo and casual are oxymorons

[@Thienthan]

Pretty sure people are using the terms, casual, midcore, and hardcore to indicate their skill level.

[@DeadPixzl]

"fuck your fun" LOL

[@MaDJaMXIII]

I've been playing MMORPG for 20 years... You NewComingMMORPSPlayersWhoPlaysForFun people, you have to understand one thing. (READ: You have only one job.) Back in the days, hardcore gamers were playing MMORPG, other players where playing other games. YoshiP introduced casual to MMORPG with FFXIV 2.0 to open the niche game genre to you NewComingMMORPSPlayersWhoPlaysForFun people. FFXI is hardcore MMORPG only. (READ: You want Quality of life, go play other games!) FFXIV softcore MMORPG with hardcore elements it in. (READ: Yeah, Softcore is the real term for Casual, but the latter doesn't belittle you.) Arthars is right again, from 0:00 to 23:44, you guys have to understand the state of the genre. MMORPG are infinite games. You Softcore are only exploring the game, you are not gaming it.

[@Zantetsudex]

Again, his takes would be 100% on point were he not also the type to keep asking for more of the hardest ever content that very few people actually do and call everything else easy. I've played with all sorts of players in decades of playing MMORPGs and I can absolutely say that there is a divide between skill and dedication amongst the player base, hence these terms springing up to differentiate them. A "casual" doesn't necessarily describe one characteristic for a player but a general attitude they carry and bring into the game; How much time spent playing is irrelevant if most of it is spent just having fun with nothing too intense, with many of them in FFXIV they spend socialising or do general completionist goals like running older content for cosmetic rewards. Mid and hardcore players are significantly more invested with the game in comparison and almost always the ones that get involved with these discussions. What makes them such is highly subjective with some key points less so i.e. If you ever cleared an ultimate legitimately you're pretty much hardcore at that point, a midcore would entertain the idea to try it in the future and a casual would call you crazy for even suggesting it. As Arthars pointed out, look outwards and see what games exist and the types of people that play them. You absolutely can be a hardcore Candy Crush player if your idea of playing it is to get the best scores possible, when most would just fire it up for a couple of rounds to kill time.

[@RingoFreakingStarr]

Wtf? I've heard Midcore being used in WoW all the fucking time.

[@Meerso123]

This comes off as a boomer take tbh. The reason these terms started to exist is because ff14 does a great job at allowing and encouraging players to play the game casually and even go midcore to where ur doing ultimates and savage but not playing the gane every single day. People should be able to play whatever they want and as you said if it doesnt fit with you for your group's goal that's fine but dont deter others who want to. The definitions should exist because people enjoy different parts of the game. Some content is casual and some content is difficult. If you think people doing any kind of content are all the same because they're enjoying the game then that's fine.

[@24hr-Gaming]

That is so stupid and something that could only be said by someone who only played FFXIV. Other games you can also do whatever content you want at whatever amount of time. FFXIV just has a population like you that are proud to be bad at games and where actually engaging with the game is actively seen as a bad thing. Other games no one gives a shit but people at least read tooltips or try to understand how their class plays. That was seen as baseline playing the game. In FFXIV if you actually know your core class rotation you're seen as an elitist.

[@Meerso123]

@@24hr-Gaming homie my opinion comes as someone who's cleared 3 ultimates and abyssos when it was current. I'm clarifying this due to your comment of me being "bad at games". There is quite literally content in the game that is made for casuals and I don't see the issue with people saying they are a casual player. The term shouldn't be used as an excuse to be bad but it's simply stating that you don't have either enough time or care to play the game at a higher level.

[@24hr-Gaming]

​​​@@Meerso123 But other games no one gives a shit about that. In FFXIV saying you're a casual means you're a real player who plays the game like god Yoshida wants you to, by afking in Limsa all day and only using Cure I because reading is for elitists. Also in other games wtf do you think people do? All games have content for different levels of players. But as the great example you've pointed out raiding in FFXIV is seen as a bad thing. How many other games you see have this kind of toxic casual mindset? 0. Everyone wants to just play. Whether they do high end content or not no one gives a shit, it's a game.

[@Meerso123]

@@24hr-Gaming that's your definition of casual. I've understood casual as playing the game laid back or when you feel like it and not like a job. Casuals can be good at the game. Your opinion comes across as elitist funnily enough because if someone says they play the game casually you assume they're bad. Your skill level andhow many hours you choose to pour into a game are different things.

[@occiderisaethiopissa3702]

@@24hr-Gaming Here he is, the typical Arthars fanboy, repeating what he says without understanding what he says.

[@terrificlife1576]

Because of the huge influx of RP players/casuals and the multi-color sex people, this game has fallen down so much. It's crazy how, from one of the best community games, in just a few years, because of that category of players, it has gotten so bad. And because these players are so vocal/aggressive/don't care about REAL PLAYERS who give a shit about the game, they destroy the game...