WRAITH Meta in TvP!!!

[@dirty_chanterelle]

Dewalt has been doing some game commentary on his channel (it is in russian) and it's actually fun to compare his pro perspective with Arty's and watch their videos back-to-back. My main takeaway so far is that Arty is much smarter about talking starcraft than he might sound sometimes. Also, Dewalt never gets chills, probably because he's from Siberia.

[@andreluiskarpinski732]

A link to his channel?

[@dirty_chanterelle]

@DewaltTV1

[@Jamesgalc-gs8wu]

Ya arty sounds dumb but is smart 😂

[@IroncladAlt]

people seem to forget just how long hes been playing and commentating this game lol

[@dirty_chanterelle]

@@IroncladAlt yeah, it's really not surprising he calls people morons as much as he does. he knows his shit.

[@GASHPAN]

When are we getting official Arty merch, eg. a blanket or towel with large lettering, ‘I’m getting some CHILLS right now!” GG!

[@stambe8605]

Every time Artosis says he is getting chills i ask him looking at my screen: Chills or NERD CHILLZZZ !!! Because i get the latter :)

[@Pangora2]

If I were him I'd rebrand some handwarmers as pocket rage.

[@AlexTProduction]

we need those "nikodin cheered... x300" shirts

[@johnnovak6386]

NGL... Blanket with "I'm getting chills" on it is something I'd buy for the wife 😂 excellent idea my man

[@pierQRzt180]

People normally focus only on action (battles), but I love the commentary that can show the setup as important part too. Even in real wars, it is not only about battles, logistics plays a big role but often it is ignored. Awesome commentary about Scan's setup.

[@sagacity1071]

The wraith makes a lot of sense. It's cheaper on minerals than throwing down turrets all over the main and can chase the shuttle.

[@Euler271]

Can the same mindset be applied to mutas?

[@stambe8605]

@@Euler271 1 Wraith against a flock of Mutas ?!? Nahhh :)

[@Euler271]

@@stambe8605 are you implying that you can't build wraiths fast enough to counter it? I wouldn't know. Well wraiths can go invisible, and much more versatile than Valkyries because they attack ground. i assume people don't use it because his AA missile deals explosive damage, which sucks against mutas.

[@stambe8605]

@@Euler271 Dude, in this game Scan build 1 wraith. What you are describing is doing a 1 base 2 Port Wraith build to fight of Mutas which is a viable build. Its not a single Wraith vs Shuttle deterrent like in this game. Its a completely different strategy. If you are talking about going Gasless into 2 Port Wraith that is too slow vs 2 hatch or 2,5 hatch muta play.

[@sir0herrbatka]

@@Euler271 Only if you are leeta.

[@Grindelfein]

Scan is such a nice guy, I love it when Artosis and Scan meet in person and have a chat! Nice guy and good terran player? Let´s go!

[@AltereggoLol1]

very satisfying ending. Always love seeing people beat that specific strategy.

[@deepzerocool]

Yeah Protoss carrier never felt creative to me. So it’s much more fun to see new strategy that can beat carrier

[@alucard449]

What new strategy did we see here?

[@junioraltamontent.7582]

​@@alucard449new wraith pick kept DeWalt from putting Scan off balance with any harassment so during carrier switch Scan could hit with full strength

[@deepzerocool]

@@alucard449 Reaver counter with Wraith that led to economy advantage and able to use tanks to kill off all the bases while producing Goliaths

[@stefanc4520]

Interceptors NOT taking splash from Valks is actually crazy!

[@christianhall3916]

They're immune to all splash damage from air units.

[@stefanc4520]

@@christianhall3916 also crazy, even storm?

[@adrianbundy3249]

My question is, why not a few ghosts to try and cloak ambush with lockdown before an engagement? Starting with 4 or carriers less shooting interceptors I think could be massive in a fight, but I never see LD in the pros that much?

[@stambe8605]

@@stefanc4520 No, just Valks/Corsair splash damage i.e Air to Air splash. Not sure about Devourer's Acid spores splashing effect as its not damage, but a debuff. Archon's air attack can also splash interceptors i think, but its inconsequential due to very short range and kinda slow attack speed + plus who builds Carriers in PvP and then who counters them with Archons :) Still if you Stasis a mass Carrier fleet and then position 6-7 Archons bellow it, when they unfreeze you can obliterate the whole fleet with 2-3 shots and then chase and slide shot, somewhat of a poor man's Archon toilet like in SC2.

[@ahuzel]

@@stefanc4520 storms dont come from air units basic attacks d:

[@dj_koen1265]

scan played really well, the end was a little bit anticlimactic but thats just the nature of carriers and both players played well here but im very impressed by how scan is playing going for the wraith to deter the drop, repairing his siege tanks to retain momentum, sniping high templars ahead of the tanks with his vultures, knowing when to go for the factory explosion all these little moves add up to allow for this massive push that won him the game one more thing i would love to see is come late game during one of these pushes is for terrans to bring a couple scv's to the front lines after a big fight to repair all the tanks and improve the momentum of the push

[@kilmindaro3]

>Terran winning against carriers what fucked up alternate reality is this

[@Larsgman]

Your comment despite being a spoiler brings an unknown kind of happiness and anticipation

[@tictacterminator]

A reality where terran leaves his base lol

[@novitrix9671]

One where Terran has eco to make 3 army groups fir every 1 protoss.... that match looked very imba sussy tbh.

[@richardnguyen2914]

He went into Carriers at a horrible time. Why go into carriers when you are losing so much economy and have no map control

[@reishiki8682]

​@@richardnguyen2914Because there's no other transition left. Going with stormdrops are fruitless with 3/2 Goliaths on the map, same with Arbiter with vessels having EMP floating around so Gatewayman will get flattened by max weapon upgrade tanks.

[@urconway]

I was about to flip out cause no Flash, but whew-it’s scan. All good.

[@martinbalke1843]

Artists talking about how there’s been no action but I didn’t even notice because the explanations were so interesting

[@stambe8605]

Almost read that as Arthritis :)

[@markrose8440]

11:31 guys i think hes getting chills.

[@CorrectHorseBatteryStaple472]

This game blows my mind. Somehow building a starport after building two factories is just mind-bending shit that nobody has thought of doing in twenty-five years

[@GaussianEntity]

It wasn't needed before, that's why. It's a result of Protoss getting better at the game so Terran has to innovate.

[@yuriy9701]

not sure about great connection to Korea from Siberia. Used to play plenty of MMO and other online games from Russian Far East, most of the time your signal goes to Moscow first hence high ping

[@GRIM20099]

Another great videos Artosis! Glad you mentioned that whole bit about valks, I did not know how they interacted with interceptors. Today I learned something new!

[@qcdoomqc]

Lmao Scan hitting him with the "From?"

[@junioraltamontent.7582]

The ol "where you from homie?!" gang ish Scan learned in San Jose. DeWalt folded it was game over right then and there

[@riuoku]

Sees no "Flash" in title... Checks if there is a "IIIIIIIIIIIIvv" player... There isn't... heart stops 💔

[@Jagtnkerpdig]

dont worry, he mentions Flash about 5000 times in this replay anyway

[@rightwingofthenuthouse]

Fr, was saddened that this wasn't Flash.

[@Larsgman]

Imagine my joy watching KZbin and it randomly plays an artosiscast vid that i haven’t seen yet ❤️

[@slipperdipper]

15:47 I wonder how this engagement would've gone if Scan kept the tanks in pom pom mode.

[@chongli297]

This was a perfect game from Scan. Holy cow! He kinda proved the Terran philosophy with this one: you block everything until your timing comes up, then you hit it! While he didn't win outright with his push during the carrier transition, he did enough damage that he was able to make the full transition to mass goliaths before the carriers could reach critical mass. Well done! Now I really want to see Scan vs Best. How is Scan gonna deal with 2 robo mass speed shuttles and the superior macro of a top Korean protoss?

[@TheSuperappelflap]

He would probably lose, Best is a top tier Protoss and Scan is a ro16 ASL player on a good day. No shade on the guy, I love how he plays and I root for him every time.

[@stambe8605]

Carriers did reach a critical mass as 8 Carriers is critical mass. Its not 12 or 16 but its alot, thats why even after out expanding Dewalt, Scan didnt have an easier time closing the game out even after he crippled the protoss's economy, due to the power of mass Carrier/storm.

[@Egganopolis82]

Nice to see someone beat the carrier checkmate.

[@jrodtopo]

I feel like scan did a great job of winning the eco battle.

[@novitrix9671]

Ez when spam can spam at a x3 better rate of supply production. Every 1 carrier had like 5 goliaths. Terran can basically Amove at that point.

[@reishiki8682]

​@@novitrix9671They're not A-moving through storms like how you do with Donkeytoss and their suicidal zealots.

[@RhythmicGraffiti]

especially on this map. so many places for carriers to outmaneuver goliaths

[@novitrix9671]

@@reishiki8682 what storms? There were maybe 20 storms this game? How many goliaths and tanks? 80? 90?

[@Zatzzo]

Why don't people lockdown Carriers with Ghosts?

[@FlymanMS]

Whoever wins... we win too because we love both those players.

[@scottc9151]

This wraith build is turning out to be really cool! The middle of the road approach is nice as well, the Terran actually has units to defend in early game!

[@czolgistta]

Who else heard that "two SCVs were chasing the salad" At 3:23 ?😂😂😂

[@ivantodorov9136]

He is finally cured from the Flash virus.

[@athanaseruisseau7784]

It's a degenerative sickness, rythmed by occasionnals fake remissions between two crisis.

[@Fadeways]

he still has the chills

[@ivantodorov9136]

@@Fadeways Maybe some side effects? We have to keep an eye on his symptoms! We can't lose this legend!

[@zhuzhong74]

Scan virus is back

[@novitrix9671]

Delete this heretical comment 😠 😡

[@Frightning]

21:00 Yea, Valkyries are useless versus Carriers, Wraiths however actually kill carriers pretty well (their main problem is you have to be in a position where you can dive the carriers with the wraiths for it to work; but it does severely haper the ability of the protoss to use the carriers offensively without proper support from goons and high templars, which have to respect siege tank positions). Another good option if you don't think wraiths will fit is mixing in some ghosts for lockdown, a locked down carrier can't get out of a bad position+its interceptors return to the carrier and thus are out dealing damage and being a distraction for goliaths or other anti-air.

[@Shield_Battery]

This is so close to the type of open I was envisioning, with that star port at 2nd fact timing (more vultures rather than tank only). Speed wouldn't have had a problem with Snow if he did it... And again, u don't have to commit to wraith, but if you do, it can still be used to scout tech more completely than scans. Also, what's important isn't to deny the shuttle coming in, but to deny it the ability to micro in your base, thus capping the limit to damage it the drop can do. Next variation involves making 3 wraiths off the one port, so that not only can u handle multiple shuttle drops, but also scout and harass probes without the roadblocks that vultures face. and requires additional costs to defend that are different that currently used to deny vultures.

[@Jubjub53]

Scan? That's a funny name to call flash.

[@calebw4287]

is Scan an alternate spellling for Flash?

[@ttobbattam]

Have you thought about making a playlist for the Flash 'comeback series' of casts? I think there's something evergreen about the progression: Flash forcing upgrade terran initially, tuning it, then innovating. Seeing those changes in sequence enhances the whole experience.

[@scoobeydoooo]

I used to play broodwar when it was released for maybe 10 years. And I'm sorry to say but most things in your videos are only small variations of what players used to do over 2 decades ago. But love your channel and love what you're doing. Watching your videos makes me want to take up broodwar again 😁

[@Icthi]

Thanks as always! Just a minor point of feedback: sometimes the observing gets a little jerky. Quick cuts are totally fine, but if we’re not needing to change screens to highlight something, it might better to try to keep the camera still.

[@robertwalko2169]

No offense to this guy at all, but I would disagree with this feedback please do not keep the camera still

[@SplashJohn]

Wow, excellent matchup! The commentary is very informative, thank you!

[@Eirik_Tube]

I liked when you had the ingame sounds and music on while casting. Any chance of reconsidering?

[@justingagnier2871]

I live in Canada with high speed internet.when I create games what should I set the turn rate to?

[@wargumbyx]

ive explained it a few times you target the carriers with them. 12 valkyries can drop a carrier at even upgrades down to 90 hp(16 to 1 shot). the carriers can not kill the valkyries before they fire a second time and it only takes about 4 more to finish the job. they are not there to wipe out 200 interceptors in 1 volley, they are there to target stacks of carriers to reduce the count to a number that is easier for goliaths to deal with. the only reason you would let them fire on interceptors is because unlike goliath missiles when the interceptors return to the carrier while being fired on they will drag the damage back onto the carriers so while you gather the numbers you can sit them in back on hold and let them fire at the stray interceptors. go test it in some custom games

[@ilvivente]

12 Valkyries is really expensive

[@sir0herrbatka]

@@ilvivente And can be stormed.

[@wargumbyx]

@@ilvivente not as expensive as 8 carriers...

[@sir0herrbatka]

@@wargumbyx Protoss will have more income. Being equal-ish in cost is just not good enough.

[@wargumbyx]

@@sir0herrbatka they can have all the income they want if you are against them going carriers and you stop making armor for your vehicles as switch that armory to ship weapons and 1 starport valkyrie, all of their carrier production is a waste. carriers need enough to overwhelm your goliaths if you dont have a large ground army under them to distract goliath fire while creating a wall so goliaths cant click a carrier and chase it. by the time you get 8 carriers a terran can have 5-6 valkyries on 1 port. then it is a simple waiting game to get the last 4-6 because really 10 valkyries is enough to kill a stack of carriers its just more costly than 12. think of it like tvz when you are willing to sit for a second and make a couple of sacrificial attacks NOT S****DAL attacks just enough to pull the carriers around while you maybe get a nexus or some of their workers. and if you defeat their saved up ground army they were using to get to carriers you can cut tanks and get valkyries form 2 ports instead. remember that zerg used to refuse to build queens to deal with mass tanks in tvz and now its the go to

[@goseigentwitch3105]

Are interceptors immune to other area damage like storm?

[@samab7891]

I knew the wraith would come to the rescue for the shuttle meta.!!

[@Unabonger420]

but what about valks against carriers? 21:50

[@asociatiadelazero1382]

i just realised the wordplay artosiscasts and aristocats... took me some years

[@zappozzz]

Did Flash retire?

[@yaninacepqni2091]

Not agaaain 😢

[@swm934]

Thanks for sharing a great late game match. Watching the slow carrier ball struggle to move decisively around makes me ask: why don't toss build multiple arbiters and use them to recall carriers offensively and defensively around?

[@sab5043]

Honest question: why not force attack the carrier itself and not the interceptors?

[@waylorudd1128]

I’m getting chills watching this

[@dontGetMunsoned]

A day without Flash is like day without sunshine

[@connordavis4766]

I feel like I have definitely seen JYJ building 1 wraith like that with some frequency a few ASL ago. It completely shuts down reaver drop and even if they don't go reaver drop you can still scout with the wraith. Before people just lifted off the starport half the time anyway.

[@stambe8605]

I have a similar memory, maybe 2-3 ASLs ago during his championship run. He did use alot of unorthodox build that run, or maybe im mixing him with Royal. Probably should rewatch those 2 seasons games for those 2 players. Alot of gems in those runs.

[@pierQRzt180]

scan and dewalt surely met a lot during those weekly leagues (if liquipedia is correct). The ladder is amazing to provide such matchups.

[@ottomann4846]

Is valkyries not working vs carriers intentional or a bug?

[@RichDavis13]

I feel like it was memed on Artosis's stream to build an early wraith vs shuttles and now its Meta lol

[@alexanderoaks2948]

which one is flash? :(

[@moisesruiz4104]

This wan awesome match and commentary throughout

[@MrZebub]

Is vakis not dealing splash to interceptors a bug or a feature?

[@stambe8605]

Intended feature for both Valks and Corsairs to prevent a mass number of them to actually be a hard counter vs Capital ships, as they were intended to deal with mass light targets like Mutas, Wraiths and to some extent Scouts (but those are not very light unit with 250 hp, although 0 armor). Even then, a large amount of Valkyries after a certain numbers, will start to beat mass Carriers cost for cost in a direct fight (even worse in a microed battle), but thats only a thing on money or fastest maps and even then it rarely happens in a perfect situation. Same with Corsairs vs Battlecruisers: 6 BCs will beat 17 Corsairs(esp with Yamato), but 68 Corsairs will smash 24 BCs (same cost), due to splash (trust me ive tested this :))

[@MegaRyan1987]

i dunno bout yall but i cant wait to watch scan and flash play, id love a 5 game series between them 2

[@ottomann4846]

Why not ghosts vs carriers?

[@KomRade493]

I came here to see Flash, but was not disappointed either way

[@RodelIturalde]

Players should build valkaries against carriers. That splash against interceptors should be amazing.

[@ESGR1]

Scan games are fun to watch. We love scan!

[@yallimsorry5983]

I think Dewalt made a huge mistake not properly macroing up more with his ground army to protect the carrier transition and cut the gol/tank, the other side is that Scan just outplayed him and had a really efficient build/better micro/counters. Still a great match.

[@dewinmoonl]

game feels like it's converging toward WC3 with a lot more spells. so wild predictions: in a few years we'd see people use ghost with lockdown and it'll be microed perfectly, to catch the carriers from flying away from the goliath

[@Armisael4321]

Ghost is not efficient enough in terms of time investment to be a viable counter to anything. It's not a matter of it being impossible to git gud at using it, it's that by the time you can get cloak and lockdown out on a ghost (and you need both, cloakless ghosts are not real) it's already way too late to do anything.

[@dewinmoonl]

@@Armisael4321 ehhh... I've been following BW since 2002 and ppl said the same with queen and dark archon too. Just give it time

[@yallimsorry5983]

@@dewinmoonl it's an interesting thought but queens and dark archon come from tech you already have late game vs the covert ops + the discussed to death drawbacks of ghosts. Who knows though"

[@Gwanzan3325]

Which one one of these players is Flash?

[@pallysrawsome]

When dealing with carriers Is it more beneficial to target the carriers themselves or the interceptors?

[@bobjackson4287]

Depends, if you can get right under them targeting the carrier itself is better. But most good P players won't let you ever get that close. Shooting interceptors taxes minerals hard so if you can stop his income you can run P out of money. That being said, if P has like 8+ carrier Gol is not a great counter. Going for a stealth wraith bomb with enough scans to clear obs is better. If you catch them without detection even for 10-15 seconds it can end the game.

[@stambe8605]

@@bobjackson4287 I concur. Another thing with Wraiths bomb, even if you fail to outright kill all Carriers due to too many obs or a Canon/Storm nearby, dont suicide your Wraiths, but use them in conjunction with your Goliaths to target Interceptors. The amount of efficiency you get dps wise from overlapping fire (less wasted shots) due to both Gols and Wraiths having the same air attack cooldown, but different speed of the shot and also homing shot (Gol) vs straight shot (Wraith), makes this strat crazy good, just micro your Wraiths out of Carrier/Storm range and use Hold position, while actively microing your Goliaths to either push the Carriers away, by targeting interceptors, or target them if they move away from cover.

[@kei4904]

The counters to carriers are Yamato Cannon or Lockdown, but it seems pro players do not know the science facility can take an addon.

[@karpai5427]

22:10 Also shields on carriers don't make a lot of health for carriers anyway.

[@LightYagami-zs2ty]

There are three things in the world you should never ask. Politician for truth, women for age, and Russian from where he is.

[@zephyro11]

i used to think why do they have a starport but they dont get 1 wraith to deter shuttle drops

[@JPR3D]

Valkyries do not deal splash to interceptors - Huh, I wonder if that's a bug or intentional to prevent a single Valk hard-stopping a group of Carriers. I didn't know that until now and it explains a couple of things from some very old memories of playing BW.

[@brentramsten249]

but why dont valkeries do splash damage to interceptors?

[@dj_koen1265]

its deliberately coded that way in the games code

[@brentramsten249]

@@dj_koen1265 i understand the valkeries was made to counter mutas, but why make it terrible against every single protoss air unit?

[@BackOfFace]

I wonder if anyone in the Americas has Starlink internet and if latencies are playable in Korean servers with that service. Part of the original pitch of Starlink was ultra low latencies for high volume trading

[@max2034]

It's really circumstantial like the Queens VS Mech, but I believe Ghost Lockdown+Goliath would just destroy a main Carriers army.

[@Acrillian]

21:51 Really?? How come?

[@cyberneticdex69]

instead of wasting res on goliaths, them carriers should have been dealt with some nice walkeries

[@nanthilrodriguez]

no flash? :(

[@Lightprayer]

Guys... I'm getting CHILLS right now

[@RhythmicGraffiti]

love seeing terrain win against carriers

[@pierQRzt180]

I think dewalt missed a lot of income in the island base. The probes were idling a lot.

[@macbeatmaker583]

the mistake is not make some shields battery's to suport the carriers. and arbiters to move then with recall. amazing!

[@czolgistta]

Why would you even siege the tanks when you see a legion of zealots running to you? The first volley will not kill them all and the second will kill your tanks. Why not keep the tanks moving, kitr the zealots an eliminate them that way? Not to mention such grouped tanks are also a paradise for psy storm. I am no pro but I would have never sieged that amount of tanks and just rolled around with them.

[@stambe8605]

I guess in late game their attention is so split up in 10 different places so he probably either forgot or didnt have time to micromanage the battle and said: fuck it, if they die, they die :)

[@czolgistta]

@@stambe8605 That might be, yes :) However in other games when there is just one front I see f.ex. Flash do the same and each time he looses 90% of the tanks or all of them. Shuttle drops of Zealots would also be innefective if the tank unsieged at least partially.

[@stambe8605]

@@czolgistta If its just one front and you dont siege, tanks have the uncanny ability to clump like a motherfu*ker. And then you will die not to zlot bombs, but to Reavers/Storm or will just get outdps-ed by the mass Goons. If the army supply is even and they dont have splash and Terran does not have good Turret/Goliath anti air support it makes sense to leave half the tanks unsieged, but dont quote me on that, im not sure either. Maybe someone else who experimented with that tactic can shed some experience.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

Arbitter statis for these large goliath groups would have been so good, gives time to kill the tanks, so the gate units can properly support the carriers

[@chairs-dimension]

Artosis builds wraiths: No!! you can't do that!! it will slow down your 5th tank!!! 🤬🤬🤬🤬 Scan builds wraiths: Wow!! what a genius!!

[@Ps.ly10-0]

People be like broodwar is better cause it doesn't have heros like warcraft Me dying to psystorm while questioning this theory

[@kl1kb8]

I'm just a noob, but please someone tell me, why 1. BCs + Yamato or 2. Ghosts + Lockdown wouldn't work against Carriers

[@stambe8605]

1. BCs + Yamato work only if you are at 5 gas base fully saturated, usually on a semi-island map or a very rough terrain and constricted map (see map 76) otherwise its too expensive and too slow as Terran to acquire that tech. 2. Ghost + lockdown works, its just people havent realize how to implement it yet (same as Queen's Broodling vs Mech before it became meta, people were saying that its bad because you have to wait till 150 energy to use it, mass Queens are too expensive and impossible to micro and they will die to mass Turret/Golaith/Irradiate, but as we are seeing these days, that strat pretty much killed turtle Mech vs Zerg). In this game if Scan forgone the EMP tech + the couple Vessels he was using, he could afford for the same price a couple of Ghost to add to his main army and lock down 1-2 Carriers at a time (people think that you have to build 12 ghosts and bring all of them to the main army, be Boxer and Lockdown split at every Carrier/Shuttle and them die to mass Storm and call the strat a joke) and split the rest around your bases like you do with Vessels vs Arbs for EMP and Lockdowns 1 carrier cloak and retreat then bring a couple of Gols to kill the disabled Carrier or your whole army to fight and scare the rest off his Fleet (while still killing the Locked down carrier). Sounds complicated, but its a matter of habit and positioning. I believe, after a while Terrans will get tired of getting bambooze'd by Carriers all the time (even in this game Scan was ahead when the Carrier switched happened and still had problem finishing the game off vs a non-korean progamer) and will give this tech another chance. Artosis will probably call me a moron in his next cast, but i've been playing/watching/testing/experimenting in this game since '98, just like him (although less these couple of years due to familty/work/whatever) so i have my theory about this (and some actual games under my belt, long time ago and not in A rank, but still the strat is kinda viable, just need polishing). My 2 cents :)

[@kl1kb8]

Great, thank you!

[@ObeliskM]

The issue is that unlike fast mobile queens, ghosts have hard time catching carriers, and all of them will die easily to one storm.

[@stambe8605]

@@ObeliskM You dont bring a whole group of Ghosts to chase down Carriers. You bring 1-2 and if a Goliath can shoot at a Carrier, a ghost can Lockdown it as well. Ghost are the smallest unit in the game, hitbox wise. They can move between units pretty efficiently and not to mention the fear factor the will put into the Protoss. Also they have a very tall and thin model making them hard to click at so hard to snipe. Storm will get them from time to time, but storm and Dragoons snipe Vessels as well before they can EMP and thats not stopping Terrans from using them. You will loose some, but you will also land some Lockdowns as well and that can snow ball really quick. If you manage to lockdown lets say 2 Carriers the protoss is forced to either flee and let you kill them or fight and loose more carriers/interceptors and ground army if terran have a good position.

[@dj_koen1265]

@@stambe8605 upload some games with sucessful ghost usage, would be interesting to see

[@Uo2Me]

You can really see the difference in levles between dewalt and the korean tosses in this. Just less crisp. Loosing too many units needlessly.

[@yallimsorry5983]

He's made huge improvements but I think he still needs to train. Also shows how rusty/out of date Flash is that Dewalt beat him, Dewalt's a great player and all but nothing like Snow. Could you imagine if one of them coached him though? Lol.

[@Sonkasmuffin]

I don't get this why don't they focus the carrier unit itself? The amount of time the goliaths survive while hitting interceptors it would seem they could kill at least 1 or 2 carriers or at least put 1 or 2 of them on red. If he kills a carrier instant 8 interceptors are killed or after a few fights all of the carriers would be on red and he could kill them all slowly. It seems better than trying to starve the protoss out of minerals. (no need to hate only asking)

[@Александр-е8ч8т]

Beautiful game! Thank you

[@MrPugdy]

No flash today?

[@unblessedcoffee1457]

Man, the Wraith was always so cool, it's a shame it was kindof only a cheese thing back in the day if you caught someone with an early cloaked Wraith and you mind-game them into gg'ing.

[@greggillings9454]

Carriers actually fall against Terran. I'm shocked. Way to go Scan!

[@kurukq]

member when he used to cast Flash

[@imwithstupid086]

I wonder if DeWalt chills feel different from Flash chills.

[@electronsauce]

How much I gotta pay you to get me to S rank meta?

[@DuyPham-ex5rz]

with enough Science Vessels and defense matrix, the Goliath might stands against Carriers. Just my 2 cens

[@vanov88]

I think no flash upload during the week end is fine but dont push your luck. ;)

[@CaptainWumbo]

I, a genius, believe yamato cannon is the answer to carriers and arbiters.

[@stambe8605]

It is, but in what game are you gonna get 6+ BC with energy for Yamato and strong core mech army ? Only on an islan/semi island map or a map like Vermeer, where there is a gas base on every square inch of the map :)

[@mowsefmow8177]

i thought terran were building wraiths at high levels so they didn't need to deal with snow's reaver play. i don't watch that often but it's probably a little reductive to give flash all the credit for this one

[@loggerino7331]

Won't DTs hard counter this?

[@nanoki441]

probably. this only works because most protoss seem to autopilot abuse op reaver/shuttle and you can just blindly build a starport.

[@legolegs87]

Flash had Science Vessel around most of the time

[@tbaumitski]

You're right. I am shocked about the walks. My dumbass thought: why are people not hold positioning 6 valks over their tanks and army and just rek all the interceptors. Now I know... Shame

[@muduaz1234]

Wait, has Arto just said Carriers always stay out of range, thats why emp is useless against them? Emp is almost like a nuke vs toss imho.

[@hansennah2826]

Why nobody utilizes lockdown against carriers?

[@legolegs87]

Because ghosts need cover ops and 3 upgrades to become usable and still are impossible to bring at right spot at right time and not lose. I guess. Or maybe because Flash doesn't use ghosts.

[@stambe8605]

@@legolegs87 2 upgrades > Lockdown first, then Cloak. You dont need Ocular implants, unless you use Nukes and the energy upgrade is optional, unless you are swimming with money and you want some Ghosts allocated to a safer position i.e. side of your Main base looking towards the Protoss main, to accumulate a max 250 energy for Cloak -25 and then 2 Lockdowns vs Carriers/Shuttles flying in, in fast succession or have them start with 63 energy for faster. Basic math: Ghost tech with 4 Ghosts build (min number to be efficient) is 450 minerals/650 gas vs Vessel Tech with 2 Vessels build(min number to be efficient) is 400 minerals/650 gas, so 50 more minerals cost for the Ghost tech. Even if you add another Barracks so you build them faster and you can always land your 1st one in late game, as its gonna get sniped by the Carrier fleet anyway at some point, dont tell me +200 mineral cost will bring down the economy of a 3 or 4 base Terran in late game :). Its not the cost that's prohibiting the use of Ghosts, but their somewhat awkwardness and lack of familiarity with the tech.

[@touta2647]

Any Zerg games? 😢